Guild Wars 2

They’d have to fight off the ghosts, flame legion, and ogres for sure.

And the counter attacks from Ash, Blood, and Iron legion. We know Blood legion has their own citadel somewhere, so effectively the Charr could simply relocate their main headquarters there and charge back.

Humanity’s ONLY hope of reclaiming Ascalon would be swiftly taking EVERYTHING south of the wall, and plugging the holes in the wall and using it to take the brunt of the counter attack. But the brand throws a knot in that plan.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Swag Captain.5318:

Remember, Boring doesn’t equal stupid!

True but in their current situation, focusing on farm techniques is kinda stupid. Over the past centuries they have been attacked on multiple fronts (charr, centaurs, white mantle/bandits and elder dragon minions). As a result they lost most of their territory.

You would think that this might encourage them to focus a little bit more on defense rather than farming groceries. I mean, they are still using wooden catapults for god sake. It’s a miracle humans are still around.

This is one of the reasons I was really happy with the Watchknights. Finally some human tech/ingenuity.

Go to vigil keep. They have catapults there too.

And arrow carts, and ballistas(In a charr personal story to defend Vigil Keep, you have arrowcarts alongside cannons and such). Catapults are easier to maintain, and arm then cannons. Also, have you seen Shaemoor garrison? The walls are pretty advanced.

Also, the Seraph are doing decently against the Centaurs. It’s a back and forth war, but the main ‘heartlands’ of Kryta are mostly secure.

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

I think if humans reclaimed Ascalon, the ghost problem would be gone. Adelbern’s ghost CLEARLY has communication skills for a phantasm, and the only reason you fight him in AC is because you are with a scumbag Charr, and a drunkard Norn.

Reassert Human Dominance, and Adelbern will tell the ghosts to lay down arms. Ghosts are just mad because Charr are kittening everywhere!

Also stop talking, because if we’re having a serious discussion here, Jennah nor any Krytan has any kittening business in Ascalon, so if an army were to be raised, it should be by the Player Character, and other dominant descendants of Ascalons. Thackarey counts.

Ascalon is for Ascalonians. kitten your jungle-dwelling, primitive, wishy-washy, ex-Mursaat worshipping rats.

The ghosts attack everybody, including humans in the open field.

The only way to stop them is to end the foefire.

Also, Ascalonians can’t retake Ascalon. Not without Krytan Aid.

Amusing how Ascalon doomed itself by following Adelbern. If Rurik had been in power, Ascalon may have withstood the years. Or at least lasted far longer. Kryta offered military and other aid to them during the civil war, but Adelbern refused and likely murdered the ambassador.

Wanderer.3248:

Jaken.6801:

Btw. while we are at gameplay and allowing us to have control or not:
Please allow us to fight the big baddy this time.

If the enemy is “mortal” then allow us to hurt him. Hurt, but not break him.
Like the Joker in the Dark Knight. He was hurt, but was clearly having all the cards in his hand and more up his sleave.

Like the Joker, Scarlet was never meant to be a fighter. And in the Arkham games, he tends to avoid direct combat, and quite frankly, he’s not good at it. The scene in Arkham origins where you do beat up the Joker is a bit disturbing really, since physically the batman is so much stronger than the Joker.

I don’t think a straight up fight with Scarlet would have made much sense either. Like the Joker she was a thinker and a schemer, not a fighter. She had thugs to do the fighting for her.

I don’t think all MMO enemies have to be great at combat. It’s kind of sad for the genre if everything has to devolve into violence.

Also in one of our first encounters with her, we actually fought and beat Scarlet before she escaped (three times no less).

She was insane, but smart. After that she avoided direct combat.

Celestina.2894:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Ascalon is now an even more barren wasteland than it was before. All of the great human structures lie in ruins, and have been pathed over by grotesque metal bases by the Charr. And between it all, the Brand and it’s creatures terrorize the area. If Queen Jenna decided to have a big Charr massacre, good for her. I have little to no sympathy for those oversized horned cats. But Kryta is my home away from home, and I frankly couldn’t care less for Ascalon. It’s a ruin of a dead kingdom, full of dead people, and soon to be dead Charr. There is no glory to find there, but rocks and bones.

……….How in the hell can you say Ascalon is worse off now then it was just after the searing?

kitten I’m still not even sure how Ascalon survived as long as it did with what looked like tar where water should have been.

There was tar there. As my brother said, if the Charr hadn’t killed almost everybody in Ascalon city before the foefire, starvation and disease would’ve finished the job.

Priory has all types. A lot of Norn join it for various reasons like exotic travels and hunting. One Norn in fireheart joined because the Priory has the beast cooks.

Jaken.6801:

Okay, i know they are legitimations why they there. They wanted revenge. Which is something what i stated before.

The thing is, they are not the only ones who lost someone to Scarlet and swore revenge.
There should have been a lot of others, some of them even more suited to the task.

Like a group of the queens personal guard.
An asura or priory research team
A group from the pact.
etc..

Here’s the problem with your idea there.

“Specializied” or “REALLY SUITED” groups would likely already HAVE a task.

Shining blade/queens bodyguards would have the task of GUARDING THE QUEEN. Not roaming all over the world.

Asura of Priory team would have their own tasks, and I’d likely say those tasks if related to scarlet would be inside a single instance. Like the one researching the krait shards (which all disappeared after their guards fled with them into portals). You can mention having one (if you do) to the priory norn, but otherwise their job is mostly done. Also, we hear of Priory teams that were researching Scarlet or working on her stuff.

Group from the pact, I’ll take this as “The Pact” leadership headed and NOT just meaning the orders (which gasp, we know had teams working on it from various dialogues)… why would they? If they aren’t in Orr/Frostgorge/shatterer fight (though I think the latter is purely Vigil and not the Pact), they’d likely be on leave and vacation. The Pact forces we know about are heavily involved in anti-dragon actions. A group from Frostgorge or Orr isn’t going to leave just to chase down scarlet.

You see, a group of ‘random’ adventurers works best because they DON’T have anything tying them down. We don’t have to come up with some reason why Rox and Braham show up at the tower of nightmare, they are adventurers, they wander and ADVENTURE. They can (for the most part) go where and when they want.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Middle Eastern dragons were akin to European dragons, but wingless (or had such small wings they couldn’t fly), Wanderer. There’s more kinds of dragons than just the European standard and the Asian standard.

This. There are SO many variants of ‘dragon’ it’s insane.

You have the ‘standard’ four legs, two wings dragon. Then you have ones where it’s four limbs (two wings acting as front legs, two back legs), so on, so forth.

Actually, the player was the one who pieced most of the stuff together. It’s more of Marjory helped the player do it in the investigation scene at dead end.

Also, they figured out how to get into scarlets portal to the pavilion. They didn’t break into her entire portal network. ALSO likely she CHANGED the portals afterwards.

Rox and Braham wandering around was mostly BEFORE Scarlet actually appeared. And after she appeared, they worked to go after her.

I don’t think they were badly implemented honestly, also I didn’t say Marjory was the only skilled or qualified member of the biconics. I simply said she WAS skilled, so shoving her aside and suddenly having a random priory member would be more jarring.

Bashing them because of things that affected the player characters just as much makes no sense. Why was the player at tequatl? Why was the player at the marionette? Tower of Nightmares? because they heard about it and went to investigate.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

And no more villains monologueing, be it before they vanish, or in the form of a hologram. I hate that. Only bad villains spew monologues.

As said, that’s actually a smart villain who does it with a hologram, because that keeps them safe from attacks.

Diovid.9506:

mrauls.6519:

:) Thoughts?

Sort of. That has pretty much been the role of the ‘bi-conics’ in season 1. Part of that has to do with the voice actors of the real Destiny’s Edge having a rather tight schedule.

It’s also convinient in terms of story telling. The members of Destiny’s Edge are all big shots to their respective races and have now fought two Elder Dragons. The player character has a hard time competing with them. The biconics on the other hand are relatively minor characters who, apparently, see the player character as being their friend and leader. This makes the player feel like he’s more important.

Destiny’s Edge was not involved to keep personal and living story seperate, and thus prevent confusion over “Wait, Logan was just with me taking out some ministry guards/bandits… why is he over here fighting krait?!”

Jaken.6801:

Interesting Characters, but as long as they are not more pro-active aside from Majory, then please fade them out.

As long as they are not able to give us a “real” reason why they are involved in this stuff, aside from “we heard soemthing was going on here”, then please keep them away.
That is exactly everything they did in Season 1 (again, aside from majory who actually did something towards the end, however at that point several more qualified people should be able to extract more information out of everything…).

Give us a reason why we should follow them and not “more qualified” people, exept from “hey, they are our Biconics, people identify the LS with them and they like them.”

Less Fanservice, more (main-)story please

Sorry to break it to you, but that’s literally the reason the players are involved in the living story. “Hey, we heard there was trouble over here in this part of the shiverpeaks… how can we help?”

“Just heard about this weird tower appearing, what can we do?”

“Hey, we just heard LA was attacked! What can we do to help??”

Marjory is an investigator, member of the Priory, and a former minister guard. I’m not sure how we could find “more qualified people able to extract WAY more information from things.”

So if we remove Braham and Rox and such because “They respond to hearing about an event.” Let’s remove the players because that’s the EXACT same reason the players head for living story events in the lore. They get mail saying something is up, and follow it.

I’ll note the Triad has been in the game since the start. It’s not like they are introducing brand new groups out of the blue if they use it. IMO, it’s likely going to be dealing with the Triad to fight to (and maybe take) Fort Vandal, then go past it to the wreckage.

Kulvar.1239:

Asura magitech isn’t technology. Charrs use cog, pump, etc. Asura use crystals and “anything”. Golems are just stone blocks with magically programmed crystals.

Also, you could be the most intelligent people in the world, if you don’t know what is a cog, it’ll be harder to understand how mechanisms work.

I’ve never said that it “revolve around an intellectual connection”. I said that the gap is too wide. Do you understand the subtelty ?

And for “extremly special case”. Yea if you want to see an atrophied dwarf Charr with a lobotomised Asura in love, do as you wish…
But with all the “if” needed, Jennah could became Jormag’s mate too.

Again, you aren’t really providing any evidence of your claims about how truly impossible it would be. We see many personalities for Charr ingame, from loving baking COOKIES and PARTYING (Engineer ally in personal story if you pick her) to loving apples and jokes(Tybalt), to being very serious and taking situations that could endanger the local area with a effective response (Rytlock)

We have an Asura who doesn’t care about science, wanting to sell baked goods/flowers in DR and that’s it. Another which is friendly and helpful. Another who freaking uses a hologram (with voice booster) to announce at pit fights (and NOT anything else sciency)… to Zojja who is angry, harsh, unforgiving, and who goes absolutely crazy if you mention somebody using Snaffs work.

Why can’t we have two engineers teaching each other about the way both races technology works form a friendship, then a relationship? You’ve yet to disprove that.

I don’t see how Ascalon is a barren wasteland now. You’ll have to explain that to me.

It has farms, rivers, lakes (of clean water bar one or two which the Iron legion actively clean of Tar), forests, grassy plains, etc.

How is that a wasteland? And it’s nowhere close to being ‘soon to be full of dead charr’. Yes there are lots of threats in Ascalon (flame legion, ghosts, renegades, ogres, etc), but they aren’t THAT seriously threatening to the legions as it stands given they all fight each other. Now true if they all teamed up, but that’ll never happen.

Besides the fact we have no idea the true extent of Shining blade or Order of whisper knowledge, and thus cannot even attempt to guess at what they do or do not know.

Also, there is nothing making the Charr “the best race evar and no other group can compete!”…

Kulvar.1239:

Friendship is not romance. I’ve never say that friendship can’t happen.
But a romance can’t.

Many romances start off as friendships.

Again, you disregard the fact you may have two engineers who are truly interested in the other races tech, and thus form a friendship then relationship because of that. It’s entirely possible.

Also… Asura “magitech” is technology. It’s not the same as Charr tech, but it’s still tech.

Shiren.9532:

I actually found the Biconics to be too out of character for their racial lore (well some of them).

Rox to me is the biggest offender. She’s too nice, too cute, she doesn’t have that ruthless Spartan solider vibe to her. Her decision to prioritise a friend over a mission (save Braham over fight Scarlet) seems very out of character for a charr, especially a charr that is supposed to be on the lowest rung of the ladder (despite dealing with one of the race’s greatest champions) and desperate to regain some status and value in her society. She casually talks about gladiums but it feels like she’s talking about someone else, it never feels like it’s her story because everything we see from her tells a different story – personal missions from a Tribune, agency uncharacteristic of a soldier, delegate to a royal birthday to an important diplomatic region etc. They sanded down the rough and aggressive side of the charr to create Rox. When she does growl or get serious, she comes off as a kitten and not a lioness.

Rox lost her entire warband to events out of her control, it’s ENTIRELY realistic that in a situation she CAN control, she chooses to save her friend/warband.

Also, the reason she was sent to the jubilee LITERALLY boils down to “Rytlock hates those functions, and did NOT want to be around Jennah and Logan in the same room/area.” It’s literally the reason she was sent. She was in the room, and he went “Hey, I can pawn this off to her.” The thing is, in her case the whole gladium thing may be lessened among some charr (Like Rytlock) because it was an accident that claimed her warband, nothing she could change or prevent. It’s not like some others where the warband dies in combat and they survive due to things that could be questionable (leaving the fight, etc).

Norn are supposed to be legendary and often fiercely independent yet Braham is like a puppy, following others along and coming off as friendly and huggable rather than an intimidating warrior or achiever of great feats. Sure he still has that cliché stupidity so many norn have (which was hard to see after disliking Gullik for the same thing but loving Eir for being so wise and strategic) but he has it without the heroic trade off it brings to other norn. Braham has bravado but he can’t back it up (this comes across to me as too extreme just to be inexperienced youth) They don’t have armies, they have legends. They pave their own path and are encouraged to chase their own legend, yet Braham is tagging along with Rox or being bullied into baby sitting an asuran child. He isn’t comfortable being on his own and doing his own thing, he sulks when Rox is pretending like she might join Rytlock’s warband.

It’s explicitly stated he DOESN’T have a legend yet. That’s mostly why he’s off adventuring. His love interest ditched him for a merchant because the Merchant HAD traveled the world, and could tell her tales of exotic places. He had not. He’s wandering with Rox because he wants to make his own legend and be ‘free’ of Eir’s.

He’s sad at the idea of Rox leaving because he feels like himself and the others COULD be her ‘warband’. That she doesn’t have to follow Rytlock like a kitten to be accepted or have good friends. She doesn’t HAVE to leave to find what (he believes) she already has right now.

I really don’t understand what you mean by “agency” in this context however.

wouw.5837:

Erukk.1408:

I don’t think there are any strong examples of interracial relationships in lore, but it is possible. I think the most we have gotten is one-sided attractions. No children would ever come from those relationships though. We do have dev confirmation on that part.

They probably could get kids actually, only those kids would be infertile, like a donkey+horse=a mule(infertile)

No, actually Anet explicitly said before GW2 release that (at least as of GW2 depending on your viewpoint), there is no such thing as a halfbreed.

No half-norn, half humans exist in GW2. No half norn/half charr. It’s impossible.

kny.3789:

on second look devourers seems much more obvious, especially the smaller ones. could/would mordy hold sway over such creatures? or maybe its the classic “the local wildlife is riled up cause ‘x’ badguy is doing ‘y’ thing” i just hope they pull something completely unexpected like my initial “what if afflicted?” speculation. maybe blowing up the zaphyrites was unexpected but its hard to get excited about that.

Maguuma had lots of devourers in GW1. Likely just the crash/bad guys and good guys running around stirred up a nest.

Again, Charr and Asura engineers with interest in the other races tech. Instant basis for friendship and perhaps a relationship.

You are simply refusing to think even an inch outside the box.

draxynnic.3719:

There are siege devourers in GW2, as well. There are events involving them, both as part of the charr war effort and as Branded, in Iron Marches, Fields of Ruin, and… I forget the name off the top of my head, the region where the Citadel of Flames is located.

Yeah, three branded siege devourers/giant ones I know of (two in an guild mission). another queen is part of a meta event (so make that four branded).

I know of one siege devourer in a citadel of flame path attacking the gate, but can’t think of seeing any others outside of there though :O.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

The “multi-appendage horror” is definitely a devourer- one of the rarer models, but you can see them in a few places, most notably the farm in Iron Marches. That said, I am honestly thrilled to see an old GW1 enemy return, even if it is a bog standard monster.

More interesting to the story- in the same shot with the Inquest golem, you can see a Seraph in the background. Combined with the geographical proximity of the supposed new area… I know people have been expecting the Triad to come back into play since F&F, but this time I think there’s a pretty strong case to be made.

That area is Fort Vandal. Likely we are actually going to take or assault it.

Also the fact in the last one (at Dead End in the party) Marjory’s sister mentioned being assigned to brisbane because of increased black market activity.

Yeah, there is a fine line between ‘stereotypical’ and ‘Ugh, cliche.’

Some people have problems seeing it, others don’t. To me Braham is a typical Norn, though he obviously has come to the “Humans and asura can be just as useful” easier them some of them. (One elder Norn in DR mentions viewing humanity as weak until he lived in or visited DR for a while).

I’d rather have some ‘typical’ or slightly out of the box characters then WAY out of the box characters. As Aaron said, Scarlet fits that mold. she was interesting/cool (as a concept perhaps for most, as a character for some), then kinda went over the top and that was too much for a lot of people.

“Stereotypes”

Taimi is not a typical Asura either. She fights against her assigned college, wanting to be in another, if not study all of them (It’s why she was so fascinated by Scarlet, she liked the idea of just studying whatever you wanted).

The giant creature looked more like a giant devourer (they exist, and they can get huge. see GW1 siege devourers and the one warrior boss)

Dustfinger.9510:

Fist – There’s nothing out there worse than what’s about to be in here. Centaurs! Undead!

Crown – Foolish human. You dishonor yourself and your ancestors.

Heart – You’re cunning and clever enough to recover from this loss.

crown >> My ancestors… yes. They fled Ascalon so we’d survive. I can’t throw that away out of stubbornness. You’re right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqAKdQJVSPc

Any idea what the heart reply is?

Kulvar.1239:

Charrs aren’t purring fur ball !
You try to hug a Charr, he scratch and howl back.
Asura like intelligence, big forehead, big ears, small size, huge head. Charr don’t look like small feline teddy with huge head.
Charr like their partner tall, strong, ferocious. What an Asura is not !

You will never see a Charr and an Asura hugging together except in lore-out fan mind.
I’m a fan of these two races, and a romantic relationship between an Asura and Charr is like a sign of the Apocalypse (the death of the game).

Because all Asura and all Charr are 100% alike and there is never any different in opinion or likes among them…

Oh right, that’s not true at all.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Which means they are in fact just a big species of reptile, nothing more correct?

In most universes, the same is true for dragons :P

But yeah, as we know it Drakes simply are a large ‘class’ of reptiles, and dragons are another species.

For all we know, bone dragons may be more related to drakes then current dragons/dragon champs.

Or they could be similar to dragon champions, but decay took most of their bodies.

Haaznahnuff.1907:

Well, given it’s a Whisper mission, I don’t know if we can rely on all that the character and Cai, the Whisper emissary, may say…

If someone can precise the circumstances however, this could be an overlook from the writers (rather than a hidden clue to something).

Fairly sure we can trust a non-order aligned random villager :P.

Bellyboomer.3048:

I see your point, but I can’t think of any example where the Asura doesn’t have any arrogant undertones. Even Asura aboard always try to act objectively and in the name of science… Which leads me to believe they all share those same core characteristics. But feel free to prove me wrong. The only exception are pirates I think.

Actually, IIRC there is an Asura in DR who specifically lives there because she doesn’t care about science AT ALL, and instead just wants to run a flower shop. Humans are fine with that, Asura would not be.

edit: Ninja’d. I thought it was flowers, but baked goods also makes sense with what I recall. I thought she was in DR, but wanting to move also fits.

Bellyboomer.3048:

Given anything we know about the races, their behavior and their culture, I think it’s near impossible, except for the occasional freaky outcast (which probably doesn’t involve a cute relationship like these fangirls want, but more of a sexual deviant one). Your thought?

Sure, it’s going to be very looked down upon within the capitals, but such a relationship would NOT be about having kids, and frankly I could see it easily being non-sexual for a long while.

I could see it happening in LA, or (as others said), perhaps in the orders, Pact, or some other multiracial group.

You are basically stereotyping the races and refusing to even go into reasonable thinking about it(or consider options). What if the Asura and Charr in question were very interested in the other races tech, met/lived in LA (or were both in the priory or another Order.), and grew into a relationship that way?

YES, it’d be awkward. YES, they’d be looked down on when within the capitals (Rata Sum or Black citadel)… but it’s possible.

Purecura.1795:

Well we only know that Kasmeer is a member. I also have a theory that The Collective works in secret among the inhabitants of the continent of Tyria. I also want to pay attention to the title in quotes, “GREAT and GORGEOUS Mesmer Collective”….. I think it would be safe to assume this Organization, is made up of the Human race. Not to call, Charr, or Asura ugly lol, but I think it would be safe to assume if they have the likes of Kasmeer, then the rest of the members possibly could also be attractive humans.. maybeee norn or sylvari?…

Do note said title comes from Marjory, not Kasmeer.

And it’s said in kinda a joking tone IIRC, as in Marjory poking fun at Mesmers being so pretty :P

Bellyboomer.3048:

So this is the kind of people that lurk around this forum? No wonder I don’t take you folks seriously.
I don’t want to be offensive, but fantasies of romance between childlike midgets and big angry furries seem like the kind of thing you should seek some help for…

Asura are ‘childlike’ in height alone.

Please don’t confuse (and I see it a LOT) height with maturity/intelligence/‘childlike status’.

Bellyboomer.3048:

Zaxares.5419:

@Audrixy: It could happen. Most Asura are attracted to brains, and Charr are attracted to strength/ferocity, but it’s a big, wide world out there. Somewhere out there I’m sure there’s a Charr who wants a cute little Asura partner for his very own.

For the record, my male Charr is currently in a relationship with a female human.

If you know anything about the lore, you should know that both of those relationships are near impossible. Please don’t confuse possibility with personal desire…

Asura and Charr? Very unlikely, but not 100% impossible. Hell, could be two engineers who are very interested in the other races tech.

Charr and Human? Well that hatred is not anywhere as bad as it was in GW1. Charr in LA live alongside humans just fine. We have several cases where Charr and human Orphans work together and play happily. In LA before the battle we had a charr and human child who gladly went to play games with each other and didn’t think anything about “Oh she’s an evil charr!”

HELL, there is a literal case ingame where a major Ebonhawke scout/siege weapon saboteur and the head siege weapon builder for the Charr siege forces became friends immediately after the cease fire was called, and still are friends.

YES, charr-human relationship is out there and definitely would be looked down upon in certain areas (DR, BC, Ebonhawke, a few others)… but I don’t see it as impossible.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Kalavier.1097:

Also, to expand on Order of Whispers, the members in GW1 all had the same uniform.

False.

And GW1 made it a point to say that those we meet are only those who wish themselves revealed because they’re footsoldiers against demons and we’re allied. Jurah said he has men linked to the Clanmarshals of Istan, but we never see any men drapped in red robes around there.

What I was meaning was the ones we know about, forgive me for missing that guy because he was in the mission line I didn’t do as primary much of the time :P.

Likewise how in Gw2, the ones we plainly can see as any character in the order are the ones who are in uniform, while there are many NOT in the whispers uniform but part of the order.

For all we know, the “order” of GW1 is the mesmer collective, or another branch.

Also, to expand on Order of Whispers, the members in GW1 all had the same uniform. Though their faces were always hidden. Seriously though, you find their members everywhere. I can across a lionguard that was a member, but I’d never suspect if I hadn’t been whispers and thus had the cord-word option.

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

Logan however? seriously he’s written as a social buffoon. He may know a thing or two about swinging a sword but when the day is done, he can’t stop tripping over his own boots to save his life. And he seems to have forgotten that he is a human from Ascalon and more specifically that his home town is actually Ebonhawke, NOT Divinity’s Reach.

So yes his character – or actually lack of it – does in a small way weaken humanity…….

Actually, he isn’t from Ascalol. He simply worked for Ebonhawke as a merc.

He’s descended from gwen yes, but his brother joined the Seraph when Logan was a boy, and Logan became a scout-for-hire working with ebonhawke.

The NPC IS human, but the mission is a Sylvari one. Hence my posting this here. It’s part of the Sylvari personal story. If it yields something interesting, I’ll post it in general lore or human forums.

You do several quests for the necromancer order post searing, involving killing one pre-searing trainer, and attacking another (He escapes and forms a cult later. Verata).

The thing with order of whispers is, yeah you know their generic members… but they have people EVERYWHERE. In the other two orders, as bartenders, hell I came across one at the Seraph fort in north-west Gendarren fields, his job was to inspect the fort and see about improving the structures, and he was a whisper member.

IMO, Order of Whispers purposefully has a public front to throw people off. A Mesmer collective likely doesn’t have a public front, like the necromancer order didn’t really have a public face. OR it’s simply a gathering of mesmers, but otherwise has no real goals/objectives. So instead of having missions or objectives, it’s more like “Hey, this is weird. ask Bob who is in the area to check it out for us.”

Okay, so I just recently did this mission and there was a piece of dialogue I wanted to confirm, but NONE of the dialogue is on the wiki.

Dialogue I speak of is when you convince the villagers to leave, specifically the first one. I believe it was either charm or dignity (heart or the crown), but the line mentioned something about her grandmother… I wanted to check the actual wording of it but can’t find it on the wiki, and obviously ingame since I did the next few instances before thinking about it.

CureForLiving.5360:

Blazing Liger.1236:

The Pale Tree talks later about your character fighting Zhaitan, but the dragon in the dream looks nothing like one of Zhaitan’s minions.

Counter argument: it’s a dream so the dragon was a metaphor. Your new little sylvari mind attempting to wrap itself around the wyld hunt with a limited frame of reference.

Has a point. Perhaps before Personal story nobody really encountered the likes of Tequatl.

Because His hunt was to cleanse Orr, not to restore the land to fully supporting life.

With cleansing the source of the corruption, the land will be cleaned as the water flows through it. It’ll take a while, but it’ll happen.

Now yes, he could stay in Orr and try to speed the healing up.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

Many personal story things (airships, huge creatures and so on) are really on the maps, but just invisible. You can see them very often from distance and they disappear if you get closer.

In Arah storymode you can see the Glory of Tyria before you even reach the dragon fights.

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

Zaxares.5419:

Mostly it’s about Nicholas arguing that the existing game lore is wrong and how humans can and should be the dominant race in GW2, if only the devs weren’t so biased against them and nerfing them so the 5 races can be “equal”.

Excuse me? Did you say that the races are essentially equal at least at the start of the events of GW2 the game? Seriously?

Also I never said Humanity should be the dominant race as it was in GW(1) in Tyria. Your confused and misguided post is full of errors and statements that I’ve never made or suggested.

I won’t dig up the quote, but you actually did as I recall, say at one point that humanity should’ve gotten the ‘legacy of the dwarves’ and become the prominent military power in Tyria. edit: IIRC, you also said the charr should’ve remained as semi-nomadic people instead of the industrial head.

starting with Humanity I believe that they should control the land south of a mostly repaired Great Northern Wall with Ascalon City as its current capital. With the Foefire never taking place. The ruling Dynasty in Human Ascalon is one that started with Devona who became Queen for her leadership achievements of the Ascalon’s Chosen Guild. Rin its former capital in time gradually recovers but is now a military forward operations base ensure the Great Northern Wall is never threaten again.

Only Devona is not of any royal line (that we know of), Would have to forcably depose of Adelbern, and then get picked for the throne over Barriden or one of his children (or whoever Samuelson is descended from). Barriden who was also popular and actually stayed in Ascalon the entire time, where as Devona and crew did most of their heavy adventuring… away from Ascalon, and not there fighting the charr. We also have no evidence of where they ended up.

Kryta then takes back control of Lion’s Arch after finding evidence that the pirate cartel used stolen Krytan gold to build a criminal empire. As a result of having its main port returned to the nation it becomes the main trading centre with Human Ascalon and the rest of Tyria. This trade is on the back of an official alliance between Kryta and Human Ascalon. This alliance ensures the prosperity and security of these two Human kingdoms and allows both to build formidable military and naval forces(Kryta). Thus humanity is now competitive with its neighbours – far from dominant since Orr is lost and the Elder Dragons have pushed the Asura out from underground. And the emergence of the Sylvari as a new Tyrian major race.

So what, Edair just turns back on his word and conquers it anyway? or his successor does? Proving humanity to Asura, Charr, and Norn as liers who don’t follow through on their treaties?

The Charr seeing that the Human Kingdoms have a solid military and trade alliance with each other realise that their ambition to take all of the Tyrian human lands for themselves is now effectively extinguished. Thus the High Legions now acknowledge the need to negotiate with the Human alliance to secure their mutual borders.

This approximates what I think should have been a possible and likely outcome of the events after that of the first game.

Yeah, seeing an alliance between the recovering Krytan nation and the already majorly weakened Ascalon would just drive ALL want to recover Ascalon from them… Nope. The shiverpeaks would make such an alliance hard to effectively pull off, and while yes, they could last longer with Krytan aid, I doubt it’d be enough to effectively stop the charr or make them give up on assaulting Ascalon.

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

Kalavier.1097:

Only Ebonhawke isn’t really attacked by the branded these days. The region isn’t a wasteland at all, they have forests (thin, but there) and grass growing. Not the best land, but NOT a wasteland. Fields of Ruin is human land, though the charr have a base to watch over the brand and a research base for the brand as well.

Eastern Ascalon is devoid of many large settlements (there are a few though) because of the brand making land travel extremely tough, if not impossible. It is not a wasteland at all (I fail to understand how you even can picture that…), it’s just you can’t ship goods back to BC safely, can’t ship goods in… so why set up a ranch over there? or a town? or a mine?

Again, how the heck is Fields of Ruin a wasteland?

Have you actually looked at how close the Dragonbrand corruption is in relation to the Fields of Ruin? seriously? We are talking about from the point of view of a travelling merchant that is considering the risk level of travelling to and from Lion’s Arch/Ebonhawke by road.

The Dragonbrand is an effective land barrier. Only trained soldiers would risk road travel . And as to the region having villages/settlements/small holdings and farms? That is clearly an uninformed design decision. No civilian would establish any type of farm or settlement anywhere near the corruption.

Anybody who travels to Ebonhawke from Lion’s Arch will take the Asura gate to DR, and then to Ebonhawke. THAT is how they get their trade in actually. They send ore mined from their quarry through the gate to DR for selling, and bring in supplies. A merchant going to Ebonghawke wouldn’t go by road because of the sheer DISTANCE. Not because of the brand. Sure it’s a factor, but you are talking about not only going over the shiverpeaks (which is kinda more dangerous these days then before), but also traveling across ALL of Ascalon, + the brand. They’d simply pack enough wares to cover the gate cost to and back, and still have a profit.

Dragonbrand is a barrier, I said that. We all know that. Also, the settlements to the east of it likely existed BEFOREHAND. And simply they didn’t want to relocate. Most are actually a bit away from the brand, only a few are ontop of it and those are all heavily manned by sentinals. Again, it’s not a wasteland to the eat of the brand. It’s simply hard to reach. Ebonhawke is establishing camps and a farm outside of the walls.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

I can’t believe this discussion just keeps on going, not even sure what it’s still about (not going to read through 19 pages).

It’s generally at the moment Nich talking about how badly humanity is, as said.

Zaxares.5419:

Mostly it’s about Nicholas arguing that the existing game lore is wrong and how humans can and should be the dominant race in GW2, if only the devs weren’t so biased against them and nerfing them so the 5 races can be “equal”.

Plus a small side argument between me and CETheLucid about Pyre Fierceshot.

And you are brainwashed/indoctrinated (or anti human) if you don’t see them taking LA from Kryta as anything other then shoving humanity into the mud and kicking it.

Oh, and how having LA would make Kryta a military superpower able to match the charr or Asura military.

The main thing about his corpse is… it’s huge.

It’d take a LOT of magic/firepower to utterly destroy it, and a massive amount of effort to move it. So really, they can’t do anything besides leave it where it lies, and deal with anything that comes from it.

Asura HAD magitech, teleportation, golems, and such before. Maybe not lasers I’ll give you that.

But they had the stuff 250 years ago, this is just the modern version of it.

But yeah, the point is humanity is slowly becoming self-reliant from the gods.

Shiren.9532:

Kalavier.1097:

Um, what? How is a BATTLEFIELD injury a liability? It’s not like they tripped alarms or stumbled and broke their legs. They got injured from an explosion. A pact team would’ve encountered the SAME EXACT THING.

An experienced team may have encountered the same thing, but maybe they wouldn’t have. It’s possible a more experienced group of adventurers would have used aegis, stability, mist form, distortion, black powder etc before going in for a stomp :P. A liability is something which is a disadvantage, someone who can’t fight and actually needs to be protected is very much a disadvantage.

Game mechanics don’t transfer to lore 100%. a black powder cloud wouldn’t stop an explosion from flinging you across the room. There is literally nothing different they would experience in the fight.

A Pact team would’ve had their medical trained person do the same thing.

I viewed it as the mission is what matters most. A Pact team would prioritise the mission over the individual (this a recurring issue for me with the biconic’s characterisation – they feel like a naive child’s heroic team, where friendship and love are most important). You do what you need to get the job done, even if it costs lives. That’s what happened in the fight against Zhaitan . In this specific case, Rox had a mission to stop Scarlet. In that moment, stopping Scarlet was the most important thing. Put it this way, what if Rox’s decision to aid Braham and Marjory saved their lives but the PC and Kasmeer failed to finish Scarlet off? Scarlet goes unstopped, she either escapes or has another chance to kill everyone else. It all works out in the end because it’s a story and the writers decide who wins and loses, but just like Logan abandoning his mission to help Jennah resulted in terrible things, Rox choosing to help Braham and Marjory could have resulted in the deaths of the PC, Kasmeer and possibly everyone fighting for Lion’s Arch. If I can choose five people in Tyria to take down an Elder Dragon I’m going to choose the five who will do it at all costs, even their or their friend’s lives.

Scarlet was DYING. It’s doubtful she’d escape, even with the airship starting to crumble. Either way, I’m fairly sure almost every military would have their MEDIC try to save lives, complaining about the medic DOING THEIR JOB as a liability is stupid. The airship was exploding, Scarlet was going to die anyway.

Logan in Arah storymode stayed back because without somebody staying back, the mission would fail, FOR SURE. Rox healing Marjory didn’t make failure a sure thing.

A pact team would have the medic treat the wounded. The pact had a field hospital in straits which shipped in wounded all the time. Orr is not a friendly place, yet they took the time to helicopter wounded to the hospital. They wouldn’t abandoned people they can save still.

Kryta isn’t really in the forefront of the war though between humans and Charr.

Also the whole idea that was said in another topic… “Of course the charr seem like they’ve gained so much. Before they had very little information on them.” Before they didn’t really even have towns.

Of course, I also put that toward “Different races worked on different tech”. Humanities farms seem pretty decent, or their water-works. While the charr obviously went for guns and explosives.

For all the damage the searing did, the wall was intact enough humanity could plug the gaps. That was the biggest failing of the Searing :p.

Squee.7829:

The way it seems to me is that humans may not particularly excel at any one thing, but are exceptionally versatile and unimaginably tenacious. If there’s one thing humanity would be known for if they were to ever go extinct, it would probably be that no matter what they were given, they held on to it far longer than any other race could or would care to. Ascalon was dirt and tar, but it still held out over a hundred years after it became that way. I’ve never got the feeling that the asura were known for their military prowess. I wasn’t even sure the Asura had an official military at all. I assumed so, but was one ever mentioned?

Ascalon as a human nation fell within… 20-30 years of EOTN end IIRC

Also no, the Asura have no military. They have the peacemakers/keepers (whichever it is), and their golems, but not real military force/might.

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

There are other contributions than projecting military force outside the borders of where you live. Not everything in the world boils down to the strength of a closed fist.

That level of contribution would be best be considered as a support role as best. But its more likely to not only a support role, but also a minor role. Such a role would do no favours for the human race in Tyria. The more powerful races would be grateful ….. but NOT respectful of Humanity. Some among the more powerful races would go so far to view Humanity with contempt. And we have seem evidence of this throughout Tyria in the events of the current game.

Actually, Kryta holds the most usable, fertile farmland, Which helps them. Again, they field a military, strong enough to back and forth with the Centaurs. Just because they CANNOT conquer an ENTIRE REGION and hold it secure (against counter-attack or natural threat) doesn’t make them weak. Infact, nothing in the game even implies humanity to be that weak.

Where-as the Asura and Charr are held in high regard in terms of their overall strength as nations the same is far from universal for Humanity.

The Asura have no military. Their strength is in tech/asura gates and waypoints. Just like the charr’s is engineering and military and the humans have different strengths. I’ve not really seen the Asura or Charr held in super high regard(while also belittling humanity), bar cases WITHIN their own race (which doesn’t count, as all races have a few people thinking themselves better then everybody else. Asura moreso)

And so my view that Humanity in reality is seen as a little more than a joke and at best a charity case – holds, and holds firm. Humanity is effectively only allowed to contribute where extra coverage is needed in a non-priority mission/target. Leaving high-value tasks and rewards for themselves.

Only this is never shown ingame. Why would a “Charity case” be one of the major factors of the airships operating smoothly? (It’s ASURA, HUMAN, AND CHARR engineering/thinking that caused them to work best).

They are never shoved to the side, and we NEVER see anybody suddenly go “Nope, no Seraph here. Go away weaklings we’ll handle it.” Hell, you have charr-human teams in the one area of Ascalon who work together (although as part of the heart you get BOTH sides to accept the other). The Charr actually IIRC, state they can learn some fighting styles/tactics from humanity.

Proof of this is Ebonhawke and the Field of Ruin region. The area is a virtual wasteland of marginal value, and thus Humanity is allowed to keep their city to contain the threat from the Dragonbrand corruption. This is the reality of Humanity in Tyria at this point in time.

Only Ebonhawke isn’t really attacked by the branded these days. The region isn’t a wasteland at all, they have forests (thin, but there) and grass growing. Not the best land, but NOT a wasteland. Fields of Ruin is human land, though the charr have a base to watch over the brand and a research base for the brand as well.

Eastern Ascalon is devoid of many large settlements (there are a few though) because of the brand making land travel extremely tough, if not impossible. It is not a wasteland at all (I fail to understand how you even can picture that…), it’s just you can’t ship goods back to BC safely, can’t ship goods in… so why set up a ranch over there? or a town? or a mine?

Again, how the heck is Fields of Ruin a wasteland?