Guild Wars 2

Horst Hortensie.5420:

I think Jennah is pretty real. It looks like she is controlled by the shining blades for power reasons (and there is something with the royal blood aside from the foefire). From SoS we learn that the major intention of the shining blade is to secure the throne, independent from the current king/queen. They need a royal to hold power.

That just makes it sound really sinister and possibly downright evil…

Unless it’s noted/pointed out they are doing this to try to prevent corrupt nobles in the ministry from getting major power.

bullyrook.2165:

No. The NPCs you encountered were strategically placed by the devs to polarize what is “good” and “evil” within this setting. Being against the treaty, disliking Charr, disliking those “Fallen Angels”, and holding onto anything resembling a GW1 concept of Ascalon and its relationship with the Charr Legions has been polarized as “evil”, with little to no regard to the reasons.

Effectively, if you played Gw1, that means you were an oppressor of the Charr and supported the tyrant Rurik as you defended your ill-gained lands. Not only that, but this also means that your character was merciless butcher of the noble Charr race to the point that your character wears their skins. I just find this turnaround so humorous, lol.

No. Holding onto the concept of having to retake Ascalon from the Charr has been portrayed as clinging to the past. Rurik left Ascalon and I’m fairly sure he KNEW they wouldn’t be going back anytime soon, if ever. At best, Ascalonians are viewed as stubborn. At worst they are viewed as clinging to the past and refusing to ever move on. Flame legion caused the searing, yet they blame all Charr for the searing. To quote the one minister in DR, the one lady says “WE CAN NEVER TRUST THE CHARR!” and on and on, and the other guy responds with “The Searing is ancient history, get over it.”

No to the entire second Paragraph. Hell, you have Charr seeking to uncover the true events of Rin, and others which openly hate the Flame Legion for what they did during the Searing. I don’t understand how you get the feeling that “supporting Rurik means you where a butcher!” Back then both sides butchered each other. Nobody is flawless and holy (Unlike how some potray the Ascalonians. and I’m not talking about forcing the charr from ascalon, talking being utter kittens to the Krytans offering aid, using Charr skin as armor.. etc).

Hell, actually looking at it, GW2 simply shows a trait the king had in GW1, only now it’s among several people. Stubbornness to the point of endangering or actually killing their fellow countrymen. He REFUSED to consider going to Kryta for aid or safety, even when they openly offered it (Military support against the Charr, and safe haven). Why? Because of the guild wars. The Krytans moved on, he NEVER did. Hell, in Guild Wars beyond IIRC Salma/shining blade sent an envoy to him for aid against the White Mantle (or at least let the Ebon Vanguard send some troops)… and then he basically imprisoned her. I recall she was NEVER heard from again.

So really, the treatment of “ASCALONIANS FOR ASCALON!” hasn’t changed ever. In GW1 they were stubborn to the point of killing themselves, refusing to give up or leave a losing war, and in GW2 stubborn to the point of refusing peace, wanting instead to continue a bitter war and living in fear.

Also the added issue of “All their knowledge instantly becomes known to the enemy” So it isn’t even as kittenay, “Oh no, they are turned into a zombie or a husk”. It’s literally "OH kitten, our top spy just got turned into a branded… now every single thing he knows the dragon knows.

And you said that getting a “Peaceful” feeling from the citizens (When not dealing with crazy seperatists) was basically odd/bad. Whether it was hate of Charr or of the Fallen Angels.

I found ONCE npcs who was hating on the Fallen Angels. Most other conversations I found was neutral. Treat them as outsides maybe, but not hating.

I saw some random conversations where the one person was against Charr/not wanting to deal with them, while the other was pointing out they used same money, and they’d have to.

Ebonhawke definitely did not give off a feeling of “kitten THE CHARR!”

If the head siegemaster of the charr, and the main anti-siege weapon scout of the vanguard can become friends immediately following the cease-fire, I don’t think the amount of hate is that intensive. The hate is more intense in that pair of old ladies in Ascalon settlement.

Where did Caithe and Trahearne see Zhaitan? Curious because I’ve not really heard about it. Completely believable though, as Trahearne is stated to have went through Orr a good bit before the game starts even.

Also about the Brand, yeah even the “Butcher of the Siege plains” openly states it’s a far bigger threat then any racial hatred she has about the humans. OoW doesn’t need to operate heavily in that area to get them working together..

Well, you also have to factor in the sheer number of ‘Risen’ dragons still around. Recently doing Arah storymode, I think 20+ dragons could be seen throughout it. And if they can spawn more risen, it means the Risen numbers do regenerate, although probably VERY slowly.

Also it’ll take a while for the cleansed water to fully flow through Orr, and after that a while for the land to heal enough to support life naturally.

The king could’ve forced Rurik to leave it behind when he left Ascalon for Kryta.

Something like “I disown you, you aren’t worthy of that blade!” or something.

Or, after the ring of fire incident it washed up on the shore somewhere, and later Rytlock came into ownership of it.

I could also buy the heroes running past Rurik’s body on their way out of the volcano and picking it up to preserve it <_<.

Well, if he’s off attacking Joko… we don’t really care. Hell, the OoW from Elonian wouldn’t care as they were formed to keep him in prison.

Now if the branded started going on the offensive or Kralk doing something major, I’m sure they’d inform everybody/as many as they could.

But until then (With the branded basically just wandering south and sticking inside the brand)… there isn’t a point to yelling where he might or might not be.

Also, their intelligence may be old. IE, they found out where he was napping at one point, but he likely could’ve moved.

Encoded.7460:

I found another charr player in game who, going by the lore would be in the same war band as mine. I thought it would be interesting to see others charrs names that would be in your war band.

My current charr are
Dhagar Smokeskin – Smoke war band
Reiga Sharptooth – Sharp war band

Your war band name can be ether the first or last word in a charrs second name
Examples: Stone Warband- Rytlock Brimstone , Rox Whetstone

Techincally, I’m sure there are repeat warband names.

Likewise, you can go with “The warband name is actually the other word.” :P

My engineer is of the Quick warband. Quicktrigger being her name :P.

I do not mean to ‘change’ your scenario.

What I mean to do is show how even the best intended plans can backfire. It’s important to understand these elements. Maybe I worded it wrong, but I intended to go more like this.

“The poison the centaur water supply, all centaurs die but most prisoners live. everybody lives happily ever after with some precautions done by anybody downstream.”

Yes… but it could (depending on the poison and amount of it) cause the village downstream to be wiped out or forced to relocate.

If the centaurs give the humans something to drink, it’d be from the same well, meaning most would die.

It’s constructive criticism, meant to show how things might not go perfectly, or to raise questions so you can improve.

“If the water source is poisoned enough to kill all the centaurs, then why aren’t the bulk of prisoners dead?”
“If they are so well known to comment major murders of entire families (well known families at that), how come the local armies aren’t hunting them down?”
“How is their spy ring so impressive, when they apparently just formed after LA (compared to OoW, which was an insane spy ring back in Nightfall, 250 years+ ago).”
“If they are as small as you like to describe, how are they operating against all the bad guy groups at once? If they target one, when they leave it might just reform and grow stronger.”
“How are they going to take out Sons of Svanir or Inquest, when both have recruiting stations inside the major cities and obviously attract a solid portion of people to them daily.”
“So they blow up the top of the CoE, what’s stopping the inquest outside and inside from just setting up another gate that connects to it, from a completely different area?”
“How do they keep the civilian deaths as low as they can be, so only the bad guys panic? Do they poison the water supply but also have the cure and deploy it downstream before it hits any villages?”

The way I at least, take your examples/your descriptions doesn’t make this seem like a lawful group who is willing to go beyond the law if it means stopping the bad guys. If given a choice of “Kill bad guy warlord, or save a few hostages” they’ll kill the warlord to safeguard more.

It comes across as a group of kill happy thugs who gleefully murder entire families of a guilty person, regardless of if the family disowned them, knows about their criminal actions or whatever. Or a group which does these actions, but doesn’t understand how badly it could fly back in their face. Dumping poison into the water or starting a forest fire is not a super controllable means to wipe out a camp and nothing more.

Like an old writing I once did. I gave it to a friend who responded back with some questions/comments such as “That hammer blow wouldn’t result in that type of damage. At best it’d disorientate the person/leave their arm numb and throbbing. At worse it’d break the arm completely.”

Aaron Ansari.1604:

I actually pulled from the wiki, here and here . It’s just an off-hand comment before you talk to them for the last time, you can’t choose to pursue the matter any farther.

Apparently the lord of Ebonhawke is a descendant of king Doric/heir to the Ascalonian throne (And thus able to break the foefire as well).

Maybe he refers to that person. Maybe somebody else.

What do you mean you got scammed? The storyline is fairly good. Maybe not SUPER kittenING AWESOME. But It’s good.

People just play through, never pay attention, then kitten about stuff which is factually false.

So.. maybe if you were clear what you felt never made it into the game?

Wyvern.5329:

“Even if the norn were already aware of the extent of the charr and were concerned merely about being washed away by a tsunami of clawed furry things, it wouldn’t make sense then to say that it was the skirmishes which ‘taught both sides to respect the strength of the other’.”

this part of Lamefox’s post made my day.

Though, if game mechanics reflected the lore, everyone (except me) would be playing as norn since their raw strength would likely boost damage far more then any other race by far… but they would not be able to get into many places in the human area’s :P

They’d also be the toughest with highest natural health and armor pool regardless of class :P.

CHIPS.6018:

1) CoE is easy. Bomb the entrance portal.

CoE also has a teleportation lab, and the Asura can set up other teleporters. Again, how would you bomb the portal room if it took a hefty Pact offensive simply to get to it? This falls under the whole “Hey, decide if this is a small group that is very careful with it’s strikes, or a hugely known, big group stomping out bad guy bases!”

Also, the Pact/OoW has you beat in that regard. They made the dungeon look like an accident, so they could follow any Inquest who came to investigate back to other bases, and possibly figure out the entire network. Your plan simply would trash the base but leave little to actually find out more.

2) In that scenario the amount of centaur killed will, obviously, far outnumber the human deaths. That’s why the Dark Knight would consider poisoning the water in the first place.

But purely due to the fact that humans are killed, the Pact will want to go after the Dark Knights.

The Pact wouldn’t go chasing you. However the Seraph, Lionguard, Peacemakers, Wardens, etc WOULD. Also, no. This is again a case of you presenting a plan but failing to understand the true extent of the damage would be. Recall the Queensdale water plant events. If the bandits win, water all the way to Shaemoor/DR gates will be affected, as would the nearby farms. If the poison is extremely deadly and fast, if put into the water source (Which would be the river), you could wipe out Ascalon Settlement, the Quaggan village, maybe even more (Though if the poison reached Vigil Keep, then you’d have them on your kitten.

I get what you are going for, but you REALLY, REALLY seem to fail to understand the implications. You can’t just dump a ton of poison into a river/water source and expect only the Centaur warcamp to be affected. Is it really such a great victory to have the Centaurs in Gendarren fields routed and forced back from the area for a long while/good if half of the settlements (or almost all) are forced to relocate or die out from the water being poisoned?

Remember, the Dark Knights are not hidden in a cave somewhere. You do not “find” the Dark Knights. The Dark Knights are within the Pact, because they are already part of the Pact.

The Pact will find one or two of their members, who will surrender unconditionally if found and cornered. Without torture, they won’t tell the Pact anything.
The high level Dark Knights who knows “too much”, if found and cornered, will commit suicide instead of being captured.

The way you keep describing these guys, I don’t see any of them peacefully surrendering. And Again, they wouldn’t be facing off with the Pact. They’d be facing Seraph, lionguard, wardens, peacemakers, Legion soldiers, etc. You seem to also fail to understand while the Pact is a major force, IT IS NOT THE ONLY PLAYER IN THE GAME.

Really, based on how the human ministers can be and the Arcane council, both nations would be expecting/afraid of strikes. Your faction would not save lives, they’d end lives. They would generate incredible amounts of fear. To the point of say, a Shaemoor person hearing a rumor about the “Dark Knights” being in the area rushing to make sure his family is safe and maybe even taking a vacation. Why? Because of the amount of civilian death/destruction that follows the “Dark Knight appearances” If they typically as in the manner of the two examples you gave.

Also, mesmers can read minds apparently.

3) Mesmer magic.

You cannot effectively pretend to be an icebrood for long periods of time.

4) Spy vs spy is always interesting.
For example the Dark Knights have long suspected that Demmi Beetlestone is a spy for her father. So we look forward to looking deep into that. A few of our members inside the Order of Whispers is always observing her closely.

I really prefer fan made groups and organizations that don’t ‘kitten’ themselves into being overpowered by thinking they flawlessly can fool the OoW. I suppose these guys also know the ID of the Master of Whispers too for whatever reason?

Harsh perhaps, but it seems like this group you’d start (in RP or fanfic or whatever) would be post-Pact/post battle of LA. Where would they get this impressive spy ring? Their supplies? Hell, it sounds like they basically operate across ALL of Tyria (The ingame map, not world) which is very unlikely for a small group.

Okay, really I think you WANT this group to be viewed as a “Rumor says they are in the area. Bad guys panic/grow scared, while civilians are happy and the good guys respond but don’t really care if the dark knights get away.” WHICH IS FINE. But your examples/the way you describe them acting seems to result moreso in something which would cause major civilian fear, and the local good guy armies to actively hunt you down.

Wait, could the “gods” he talks about possibly be tied to the Jotun kings?

The “Betrayal”/magic taking being their infighting causing a chunk of the magic to be lost?

Apparition.1576:

Dustfinger.9510:

“The Age of Giants ended when magic was stolen from us. You norn turned to your Spirits of the Wild to redeem your strength and self-respect. We jotun have had no one and nothing to pull us from the quicksand.” Thruln The Lost
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thruln_the_Lost

He is clearly talking about social strength as a race. Besides which, that was long before the events of GW1 and he says they were redeemed before GW1. The only evidence that supports the norn getting individually weaker since GW1 can also be used to show that a naked asura is just as strong as a naked norn. Because in all likelyhood it is just a game mechanic.

Didn’t even notice but that explains and refute everything you have talked about regarding your “evidence.” Theis evidence goes much deeper than “social strength” this also explains the reduction in both size and stregnth of your race. The Jotun could not have been any clearer in this explanation.

Appears ANET did something right in the lore after all. This is the first time I have heard of it but everything the Jotun says makes perfect sense.

Talking about Ancient, ANCIENT Norn does not = GW2 norn are weaker then GW1.

Do note the whole “Eir (IIRC, is considered kinda old by either Norn or human standards) carried a 500 pound statue on her back from her house, to the Asura gate (A hefty distance, almost the entire width of Hoelbrek), through the gate to LA and then Rata Sum, and then all the way to Snaffs lab”

IIRc, she actually did that TWICE, as she carved one statue for Snaff, one for Zojja.

I don’t recall which scene had a Norn fling a charr across a room one-handed, but that’s there apparently.

Norn are built off great feats. ingame mechanics do not represent this at all. (One Norn in Hoelbrek got his ‘title’ from taking on two grown bears as a kid and winning).

OH, also since I just noticed it on my Norn. Eir actually sends you a letter post Claw Island stating people are saying “You alone wrestled plaguebringer to the ground.” Obvious an exaggeration due to rumor, but at the same time, it’s the type of stuff Norn do. They go, they find some huge, nasty beast, beat it, come back boasting.

bullyrook.2165:

Kalavier.1097:

Skipped most of the thread, but I recall the closest anet came to anti-same sex marriage was basically saying…

“The Charr might be the most opposed to it, but they really don’t care as long as it doesn’t mess with a soldiers duties (like anything else).”

Otherwise, Marjory and Kasmeer are completely open about their relationship in a bar. If it was such a taboo thing, that wouldn’t happen.

Yeah, because the taboo’s have such an effect in real life =_=.

A good bit back, if you were gay you wouldn’t openly talk about it in a bar. You wouldn’t basically walk up to somebody and ask if the guy they were with was their boyfriend/husband.

If Kryta really was against same sex couples, why would they openly discuss it in a bar, the most noted place across almost every universe to get the latest rumors and information?

Zaxares.5419:

That’s a very good last point, Tobias. Charr society is still very much a militaristic-oriented one. They are peaceful with other races insofar as they have a common enemy to fight (the Dragons). If/when the Dragons are defeated, and the ghosts/Flame Legion dealt with, the other races of Tyria might need to be wary of who the Charr decide their next enemy is.

Of course, this could be several generations later, and by then Charr society has matured by then to be more cosmopolitan and less expansionist. (You can already see it happening to Charr who leave Ascalon to settle elsewhere.) Future Charr generations may move away from their warlike origins and spread out into more sedentary, peaceful occupations.

I don’t get where people form the idea of if there were no dragons the Charr would suddenly invade everybody else.

Do note, before Kralk awoke, the Charr were only at war with Ebonhawke. They couldn’t care less about Kryta or the other nations. Even then, I recall reading that the siege of Ebonhawke went from all three legions, to just Iron, to just a small potion of Iron legion.

Even the Charr intro cutscene shows this. I forget the exact wording but it basically was “The humans took our land, and they have paid for that in blood.”

Paid, not “Will pay.” Iron legion at least seems to consider the debt of ‘blood’ from the humans/Ascalonians to be paid and delat with.

Similar to the idea that if the dragons/other threats weren’t around, the Charr would launch into some giant war against the human gods or spirits of the wild :/.

bullyrook.2165:

If you got a peaceful feeling from visiting Ebonhawk, I must be visiting the place only on Mondays. The people of Ebonhawk are glad of the treaty, to be sure, but they still hate the Charr with a passion and rightly so. You cannot ask two peoples so entrenched in war with the blood of the other’s siblings on their hands to suddenly act chummy. It isn’t going to happen. It will take generations for that rift to heal, and forcing change though the use of special forces like the Queen is doing will only cause trouble. She really should have left the security of Ebonhawk to its guards, reinforcing their ranks through transfers, not those glorified Seraph. It breeds feelings of animosity and contempt when someone outside of your fight steps in uninvited and says “Here, let us handle things. You poor fellows will only ruin the peace we are trying to establish.” It is demeaning. And for the people of Ebonhawk, their pride and hope is all they have left. I’m just saying that it could have been handled more tactfully.

They hate the charr with a passion. Hmm. Funny

Seeing as I was just at summit peak, and there was the Ebon Vanguard captain who admitted having stuff in common with a Charr (The “Butcher of the siege plains” no less), and was working to get along with them. She admitted the next generation after they die would have an easier time, but both of them was focused on GIVING that generation a chance. So much hate huh?

Then you have the archer talking to a Charr marksmen, trading childhood horror stories of the other side, getting along fine and to quote human: “The charr are ferocious in battle, but in person they seem a little more… human.” Charr: “Humans aren’t as nasty tempered as I’d thought they would be.”

Hell, Iron Legion rep literally goes “Let’s just sign the papers, be at peace, and go back to work.” He literally says to “You think peace can just happen like that?” with “It should.”

Out of the three groups, only ONE pairing is laced with semi-hate. And that pairing literally goes “It’s hard to stand near them… but I’m controlling myself.”

Hell, for fun I then visited Ebonhawke, and ran into a human female named npc. She mentioned how pretty she was happy with the idea of peace.

Captain of the Ebon Vanguard says he’ll gladly accept the treaty and hang up his sword to return to farming.

Charr in the OoW hideout says all she gets is hard stares.

The Sergeant near the hawkgates is happy about the treaty.

An Angry farmer to the south isn’t happy, but it’s more toward Jennah then the charr.

So yes, running through Ebonhawke and the summit tent (I did not go into the Ebon Vanguard camp there admittedly), I didn’t get a feeling of a city full of hate toward Charr. I felt a city which was happy to finally have the chance at peace, and willing to move on. They didn’t feel like they were clinging to the hate and besides some, it felt like most were actually quite willing to just throw it aside.

My Charr engineer is happy about the treaty. Her viewpoint has basically been a “If the humans behave, I’m fine with them setting up farms/settlements inside Ascalon, so long as they understand it’s Iron Legion/Charr land.”

So them keeping Ebonhawke and getting the Fields of Ruin is no issue to her.

Norn wouldn’t really find issue. They’d think it odd for sure, but mostly wouldn’t cause trouble over it.

Though IIRC, in the Tutorial or very first camp, there is a Norn bartender/tavern guy who threatens to toss out a Norn because “He’s been sitting in the corner for a while sipping his drink, hasn’t even started a brawl or anything!”

But again, a Norn who doesn’t obsess over beer won’t be exiled :P.

I like the concept of an Asura ranger with one of the larger pets, but who uses it for out of the box ways.

IE, Asura ranger using their pet drake as a combat mount in battle.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

They have different appearances. You can see Dougal Keane in Vigil Keep (previously he was at Fort Marriner) – he even has dialogue of Almorra allowing him to not wear the standard Vigil uniform (while Crusader Keane does). It’s likely a relative.

Well, there is also a difference between hanging out in LA (as of the timeline :P) and being in the middle of Orr.

I’m sure he’s smart enough to accept the plate armor for that job. Just made me wonder.

Argon.1563:

I’d say hes at least 30, possibly late-20s. By the way, while deciding the ages for my own Charr characters, I was able to look at a few characters, such as the charr heroes that are seen in the Memorial Quadrant of the Black Citadel and I figured out that the natural lifespan of a Charr is approximately 60 years, however most Charr die in battle or of their wounds long before then.

There is a charr in the BC who is over 90 years old. He’s near the Diassa/Nolan gate (north gate).

CHIPS.6018:

Kalavier.1097:

CHIPs… I really, really don’t understand you.

You admit the Pact should focus more toward dragons, so you put forth a ‘fanfiction’ (not bad to have fanfiction :P) idea of a group. BUT then you keep swinging back and forth so fast and hard it’s crazy between “This is a small group that won’t get noticed.” to “This is either a huge group that can stomp the bad guys!” or “This is a small group that has such a rep EVERYBODY AND THEIR ANCESTOR KNOWS ABOUT THEM.(And thus can act against them or won’t join the ‘dark knights’ because of the rep).”

-The Dark Knights is small in number (not many people will agree with their radical ideas), but they are effective because they are ruthless. They would poison the water supply and set a forest on fire. They uses all sort of illegal spells and weapons. They do not ask “is this right or wrong?” They ask “Will we win or lose?”

-The group do get noticed (that’s why they are feared), but they stay low on the priority list of the Pact.

-The Dark Knights maybe high on the bad guys’ priority list. But good luck finding all of them. The Dark knights are not one group of guys that stayed in a cave and can be easily found and killed. The Dark Knights have infiltrated all levels of the bad guys’ organizations, and it feels like they are everywhere.

1: How can they be so effective against much larger, far more organized ‘bad guy’ factions. Have you seen the Crucible of Eternity or the other large Inquest labs? The Flame legion forts? The Sons of Svanir lodges all over?

Poison the water, killing countless civilians and natural life by tainting the water supply. This would actually get them very, very high notice by good guys and bad guys alike. Set a forest on fire? Same thing depending on the region and how bad the fire is.

Illegal spells and weapons? What kind?

2: If they are noticed enough to instantly be accused of poisoning the water (aka, the first suspect), and talked about in open daylight, they are TOO noticed. They’ll be on the “Kill/capture” list of every good guy faction. They’ll infact be treated as simply another rogue faction/bad guy group because they won’t be ANY better. See above. Poison the river with very lethal toxins, wipe out all life in the region, including all prisoners in the camp as well as entire villages downstream.

3: The way you describe them, it wouldn’t be that hard. Especially since you laughably say they have infiltrated all levels of the bad guy organizations.

Tell me, how will they infiltrate the Sons of Svanir? The Flame Legion? The Dredge? The Centaurs? You say these are shadows, nobody knows who they are, then you describe them as literally being so open with their actions stuff is easily placed directly on them.

Or, as another person said, it’ll get to the hiralous point of the bandits/inquest/whatnot USING the dark knights as scapegoats. They’ll get bolder and more daring, because hey, entire village just died from poisoning? They’ll accuse those Dark Knight thugs instead of us first thing. Especially if we leave some dead centaurs up-river from the village…(Bandits).

Inquest: “Hey, that krewe is getting very busy.”
“Yeah, they got that device almost entirely done. We really want it.”
“I got an idea, let’s murder any who refuse to join us or help, and string them up in the trees outside. Those Dark Knight idiots will get blamed for it and we’ll get all the devices and maybe some new recruits!”

Or… they kill off somebody planning to betray them, then the Inquest can act all innocent (Especially if it was a not so evil device being worked on). “Oh look, this poor man. He was just working on this device to help deal with dry regions to get more water, and those dark knights murdered him!” (or simply allow them to kill off idiots becoming too public.)

Of course, said dark knights would instantly be opposed by the peacekeepers, ministry guard, and some others. Why? Some ministers being accused of working with bandits. IIRC, a known inquest sympathizer is on the Arcane Council.

Sons of Svanir… well to be among the top ranking of them, you basically have to be icebrood/almost to icebrood status. Good luck having agents there.

Shipping occurs between LA and Rata Sum as far as I know.

As for those ships, IIRC they are from the second mission at claw island, where they have an entire fleet of lionguard ships fighting the undead navy around the island as the player clears it.

As for Orr, it’ll take a long, long time. Not only to clear the risen, but to let the cleansed waters wash out all the corruption and fully flow throughout the lands. Decades for the corrupted water to be washed away maybe, and even after that a long while till it’s fully capable of being livable.

I ask this mainly because recently while in Orr, I came across a Vigil npc named “Crusader Keane” a human, in Caer Shadowfain (Right next to the repair merchant there).

I was wondering if there is a confirmed connection between the two npcs, or if they are the same person.

I must state this.

IF the OoW knew the location of Kralk, WHO WOULD THEY TELL? The Players? What purpose would such knowledge give them?

Who says they DON’T have that information, and simply are holding it for when it becomes appropriate to release? Maybe they’ve told the Pact post Zhaitan while they plan the next dragon campaign, as it’s useful then.

Also, the Crystal desert is HUGE. And in such a large region, who says they didn’t search one area, only for Kralk to return and settle in a ‘cleared’ zone?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Jennah is said to be the last Krytan royal heir, so I doubt that Anise is her sister. There’d be no reason to hide this information unless Anise is an illegitimate heir.

Not really a shocking thing given the GW1 king :P.

Or simply put, they are so close they consider each other sisters. One fantasy comic has a great house/family group basically grab a commoner, and assign them to a royal child as a bodyguard/‘twin’. They are raised as blood sisters basically, even though one isn’t royal and doesn’t entirely have the benefits.

CHIPs… I really, really don’t understand you.

You admit the Pact should focus more toward dragons, so you put forth a ‘fanfiction’ (not bad to have fanfiction :P) idea of a group. BUT then you keep swinging back and forth so fast and hard it’s crazy between “This is a small group that won’t get noticed.” to “This is either a huge group that can stomp the bad guys!” or “This is a small group that has such a rep EVERYBODY AND THEIR ANCESTOR KNOWS ABOUT THEM.(And thus can act against them or won’t join the ‘dark knights’ because of the rep).”

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

I RP Yumiko as her last rank before commander in her order as there can only be one commander and it is not right to RP “I’m a commander.” and the next guy also says they are one too? Yet there can be plenty of magisters, lightbringers, and warmasters in the game and in RP. Its all about the nameless hero thing. We also can’t say I killed Scarlet as 1000s of us probably did too.

In the RP scene, I play as one of the many Vigil Warmasters of Divinity’ s Reach’s branch and she handles more non-dragon stuff, like Scarlet, by getting new recruits and volunteers to fight her armies in the previous LS part that just ended.

Yumi was very kittened that she barely got more than a handful (maybe a few 100) troops (and of her own order) to send to their doom in the Battle for Lion’s Arch. When the guy came form the pact and said what he said, it further reinforced her ire towards Trehearne and the pact, as already she had to bury her own dead and return dog tags to the vigil and Almorra.

We don’t know the scale at all (sorry for such a late response. Must’ve missed this one).

Hell, I’ve heard numbers that LA had around 50k population as of the battle, and 15k escaped. That isn’t even close to how many we see ingame. I’m sure if we counted every single NPC in DR, we wouldn’t come close to a reasonable huge city population.

I highly doubt the Vigil headquarters only sent “100 soldiers” to LA. We see them help secure one of the major rally points. Sure, less then the lionguard but that’s expected. Because even then, the orders can deploy troops separate from the Pact. What I’m getting from your post (Correct if wrong), is that you basically are saying Vigil keep only had 100 soldiers sitting around, and that’s ALL they sent (and all/most of them died).

Also the fact only part of the orders goes to the Pact. Such statements pretty much would be kittening at Almorra for not sending enough troops to support your char instead of Trahearne.

Charr and Norn can get pretty old and be combat fit.

Eir IIRC, is ‘old’ by destiny’s edge.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

You know, what I perhaps think is worse about the whole Pavilion encounter, is that Jennah and Anise do not warn anyone of their plan. They don’t notify Logan, who would be loyal enough to sacrifice his life for this clone that everyone perceives to be Jennah. And Lord Faren even does so (thus kind of making a mockery of Logan really).

So Jennah almost got two people killed…. AGAIN! Just because… ehh… no good reason given.

As pointed out before, Scarlet should have been clever enough to anticipate that Jennah would pull such a stunt. This blunder directly conflicts with her character. Doesn’t anyone and their mother know that Jennah is a powerful mesmer? Certainly Scarlet would know. And since Scarlet made a public threat towards the Queen and her celebration, shouldn’t she expect a mesmer trick? After all, she kind of provoked a response from Jennah. Everyone knew that Scarlet would disrupt the celebration, so there was no excuse for Scarlet to fall for this simple trick.

Also, since the imminent attack by Scarlet was so obvious, why wasn’t there more security?

The more people who know of the plan, the more likely it is to be exposed. Hell, I’d bet most of the shining blade present didn’t even know about the plan. Also, Logan was in a different area. Lord Faren was nearby. Really, it helped sell the illusion (until it broke).

ALSO. I distinctly and explicitly recall reading how Jennah purposefully puts on a front most of the time (especially to the ministers) JUST to make people underestimate her. This is likely what happened in the CM dungeon (Do note, I recall Anise never being present there. I very much think it’d be hard to maintain an illusion from DR to CM). And afterward when she ‘invited’ him to stay with her while his manor was secured/repaired, it was purposefully so she could keep a VERY close eye on him.

Also. Not telling logan about the plan reminds me of a clone wars episode, where Obi-wan faked his death to infiltrate a criminal ring. Nobody told anakin about the plan, so the grief and anger was REAL, and sold the illusion.

Same thing, if perhaps Logan knew Jennah on the platform wasn’t real, he’d maybe focus more on civilians instantly/something else then her, which would be a very, very obvious tell she isn’t real.

Advent.6193:

They could be twins whose Mesmer abilities strengthen by gestalt. It’d explain some of the ridiculous levels of Mindkitten they both pull off.

• Jennah Mindkittening an entire army of Kralk’s punks
• Anise putting an illusion on the PC that doesn’t require physical proximity to upkeep
• Also goes well with the lore, RE: Lyssa.

As for appearance differences, it makes more sense to differ, so as to deflect any troublesome questions?

Now THIS theory I can get behind. Maybe not twins, but sisters who work together (And thus amplify their powers, kinda like how they worked together to look into Kralk’s mind) and stay close to each other? Also would explain some of the less bickering. They aren’t just Queen and head bodyguard, they are very close friends and sisters.

Zomaarwat.3912:

What Captain Hao Luen and I would like to know is where the other cities were during all of this.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Captain_Hao_Luen

A: The battle lasted most likely around a week from first strike to “Cleanup graveyard and message boards set up.”
B: Said time was unlikely to be enough to mount a proper response/reinforcement mission due to mobilization times.
C: If the battle literally was “Day one, attack and miasma.” “Day two, wait for Miasma to clear.” and “Day three, attack city, get onto breachmaker, kill scarlet.”

There would be almost no time to respond.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I cited an interview in this thread already in which Jeff Grubb and Ree Soesbee talks about Zhaitan’s “carcass” (to use Jeff’s exact wording) and his spirit (though the way she talks about that, I’m doubtful she means a soul but rather the lingering after-death effects of Zhaitan). There was also a twitchTV livestream interview with Jeff and Ree in which they said we’d be able to see Zhaitan’s corpse – though this was before release, and as we can see in-game, the corpse was removed from being viewable.

All other mentions simply state his defeat.

And for you.

Yeah… vague wording ftl. One can get the image of him being dead dead, but at the same time perhaps something else.

My point was more incase they didn’t know the complete scale of his size. Basically, to show how huge a haul it’d be to move Zhaitan entirely.

Dakota.4591:

Kalavier.1097:

Technically, we don’t know if Zhaitan is dead dead or simply defeated/knocked out.

It’s been confirmed by ANet staff that Zhaitan is really dead. No more, bereft of life, pushing up the daisies, et cetera.

In fact, back in Beta, his corpse was visible in Arah explorable mode, both on the map and in the zone itself. For whatever reason they took it out before release.

Do you have the source of that available? Simply because I’d like to see it for myself so I can factually say so to others..

Konig Des Todes.2086:

They took it out because they changed the model. The original was more like the concept art we’ve seen in the trailers – much bigger, and much more of a standard european dragon.

Erukk.1408:

Man, can you imagine the amount of effort it would take to haul Zhaitan’s body to a safe and secure location for analysis? They would either have to cut it up to manageable pieces or haul the whole thing in-between a dozen or so airships.

For both of you…

Vyko.6953:

Tequatl measures:
body width – 22m
wingspan – 188 m
height (when on 4 legs from ground to the top) – 35 m
length (head to tail) – 113 m

Zhaitan:
wingspan – 500 m
height – a bit unmeasureable, since he has no legs and each hand is different
lenght – 506 m

Glory of Tyria:
wingspan – 262 m
height – 158 m
lenght – 370 m

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/a/af/Zhaitan%27s_Size.jpg

Ladies and gentlemen, that enormous thing on the right is original Zhaitan from trailer:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Keep in mind that the game does not scale to proper lore size. A fast paced journey from Ebonhawke to Ascalon City – in a more direct route than possible for players (that is, going through the Secluded Glen and directly into Plains of Ashford area from there, avoiding the Blazeridge Steppes altogether) – takes about 3 days of constant/near-constant travel. For players, it takes less than an hour.

This is very true, and it seems many miss it. For example, in Gendarren fields the lower snow area haven, a norn sometimes walks up to it. He states he is carrying a message for Vigil Keep (perhaps from Hoelbrek? They do state something like that haven guards the direct road from LA to Hoelbrek), and he was so focused on getting as much traveling into each day possible, that he was going to arrive half a week early.

I once figured Vigil Keep to LA could take half a day to a day maybe, depending on how fast you went. That was without any other thoughts though or a sense of scale :P.

This is also why the Sylvari npc in Black Citadel mentions she walks EVERYWHERE, and the player can basically go “Wouldn’t taking the asura gate/waypoints be faster?” (Note, I’ve seen npcs actually come out of the waypoints in Orr. non-players can use them :P).

bullyrook.2165:

Well, I simply dislike the fact that there is no middle ground in this difference of opinion. Feels like Kryta is occupying Ascalon and asking the locals to be happy about it. In fairness, the Queen has a limited right to extend her will over Ebonhawk, but placing special forces with gaudy titles for the purpose “protecting” Tyria’s most hardboiled humans seems a bit overdone.

Note that actually besides the hardcore people, many of Ebonhawke are GLAD for the cease-fire. Hell, they are settling their lands (They were given fields of ruin with the treaty) and making friends with the Charr.

(See CoF path 1, and the treaty tent.) Sure, some humans and charr are growling at each other, but others are making friends and going “Man, all those childhood tales about you… aren’t true at all!”

I’ve read actually Jennah and the currently lord of Ebonhawke are the only two humans capable of breaking the foefire. Honestly, besides a few TRUE old timers in Ascalon Settlement (They call you a doomed heathen if you aren’t human. One gets very nasty if you are charr. Two old ladies who get told to can it by a nearby guard for harassing visitors), people have moved on. Both in Kryta and Ascalon.

I don’t really get an “occupied” ascalon feeling much. I think most of the citizens are happy to finally have the sieges over, especially the ones who went out to set up camps and farms beyond the walls. What they want is peace, not being harassed by angry separatists or such.

Natsu Dragneel.1625:

I also happen to have Natsu D and Lisanna S, I have bad both since the headstart and have been reluctant to change them, it was a shame that I lagged out, or it would have been Natsu Dragneel and Lisanna Strauss, that 30 seconds was killer :’(

I do believe they have name changes available, that wouldn’t require you to remake the character.

My character names? I try to have something fitting for an actual character. Titles I might use, IE my GW1 dervish had a surname which was more of a title then his actual last name. While they may seem weird (Infact, two surnames I came up with purely on my own…), but one is Istani in heritage, the other Kurzick.

Skipped most of the thread, but I recall the closest anet came to anti-same sex marriage was basically saying…

“The Charr might be the most opposed to it, but they really don’t care as long as it doesn’t mess with a soldiers duties (like anything else).”

Otherwise, Marjory and Kasmeer are completely open about their relationship in a bar. If it was such a taboo thing, that wouldn’t happen.

bullyrook.2165:

As for your data on Glint’s lair. Honestly, nothing in the GW1 map corresponds with the GW2 map perfectly. You are guessing. I personally think Glint’s Lair is a bit north of the splotch, possibly just at its edge.

http://zoom.it/TWLx#full

GW1 map/historical spots, overlaid onto GW2 map. Dragons lair is directly at the end of the brand.

Envy.1679:

Sundar.1735:

During the personal story we learned that because Orr was already destroyed, Zhaitan met virtually no resistance while raising his Risen army and as a result had the largest army and posed the most immediate threat at the time.

Considering how the new dragon was able to terrify Scarlet and drive her insane despite being as powerful as she was, it seems this new dragon is pretty kitten.

Also, do you think Primordus probably is the strongest of all the dragons overall and will probably be the last dragon we face, since he was the dragon associated with Eye of the North and was the first to wake up?

kind of offtopic note. Primordus’ energy is what powers the entire network of asura gates. they used to use his unawakened statue directly, But he since then has awakened and left. However he had so much energy that the residual energy left behind is enough to still power the network.

IDK thought it was interesting.

The new gate network is powered by something entirely different. The old network likely is defunct, or used to transport destroyers/dwarves all over.

Though it would be interesting if the Dwarves still held the central transfer chamber, and used it as a base of operations.

http://zoom.it/TWLx

That’s a zoomable version of the historical locations map.

It shows Dragons lair as being the center of the crystal desert brand spot.

Technically, we don’t know if Zhaitan is dead dead or simply defeated/knocked out.

However, we do know for a fact Tequatl got a very hefty boost in power (Strength, speed, intelligence even perhaps) after Zhaitans defeat. The exact reason for such is unknown.

The Pact only theorized it was in response to their actions in Orr.

Advent Leader.1083:

Wow. I feel this argument has become philosophical, and that it has deeply disturbing implications to the world view of some people here. Proposing a group to be systematically sociopathic is not only troubling, but doomed to burn out quick. You do have to remember the logistics necessary for the upkeep of such group, and from an RL perspective is pretty hard to try and make, what with the ESRB rating of the game.

I think the disturbing thing is that guys need to explicitly point out how children died cause of this groups actions.

Sure, it might happen, but it’s like THAT is the major detail to be noticed when walking into the centaur camp in his example. Not piles of corpses, not a few dead humans and most of the cells empty… the dead centaur kids.

I feel he’s one of the types that does the ‘hard/questionable’ action to solve a problem (or chooses thoses for RP/RPGs/fanfics)… but doesn’t understand the lasting effects they can have. Poison that gendarren fields centaur camp… cause the quaggan village downstream to die out because of the water flow.

wouw.5837:

Svanir was a Norn, he was seduced by the promise of power, he became corrupted by Jormag through Drakkar (Was the dragon in the lake Drakkar? as I remember something about A-net retconning this and say it was Jormag after all)

Anet explicitly said Drakkar/dragon in the lake was not Jormag.

bullyrook.2165:

Yeah, nothing definitive on his location… Oh, except for the massive splotch of Branded in the Crystal Desert map. I think he is holed up there, licking his wounds, and considering the weight of the situation.

What wounds? He pretty much got out of that fight without a scratch physically.

Meaning the Jotun who IIRC, purely talked about HIS people? At best mentioning Norn back in the days of the Jotun being an awesome empire were better?

CHIPS.6018:

I will give a few examples:

1) Camp Raid.

If it’s a deadly poison, not only would it cause EVERYBODY at the camp to die (Why would only a few prisoners drink for the water? Unlikely to be several sources of water), but also could kill many others. Say, Gendarren fields. You could easily wipe out the Quaggan village, the farm, pirate camps, maybe even the Vigil Keep.

If it’s fast, you could kill a lot in the camp. If it’s slow, you could affect a handful before everybody else finds out. And Knowing centaurs, they could force the prisoners to drink the water to confirm the poison is there. Why not do a sleeping poison, or something that dulls them? Fairly sure thats what we use on various supplies for hearts.

2) Inquest leadership

As others said, the Inquest would probably love that for killing somebody too stupid to become publicly hated, or use it to get rid of traitors or people they want dead. Or use it to open those guys labs for them to steal stuff from. If somebody was already signed up to Join the inquest, that news wouldn’t phase them,.

Conclusion: By showing brutal force against enemies who are 130% guilty of their crimes, though spec-ops and assassinations, many will be too scared to join these enemies. This fear will reduce the number of enemies that the Pact have to face.

The Pact should be the light, and be loved. The Dark Knights should be the darkness, and be feared. The best way to protect the people lies somewhere in between.

You seem to have ideas, but fail to understand the effects they would truly have. You fail to grasp the realism.

And frankly, if yhe group is well known enough to be openly discussed by people or be the FIRST to be brought up after poison is found, it’s too well known.

As a friend said: "And if they are infamous enough to have people just talking about them in broad daylight… They’re infamous enough for people to hunt them down and try to put a stop to them. "

lakdav.3694:

I always assumed that Shiro was possessed to some degree when he unleashed the Jade Wind as he died. He doesnt have any magical ability of that scale up to that point, and the demon who manipulated him was nowhere near, at least physicly.

I might remember wrong, but isnt the entirety of Shiro’s plague mostly centered around possessions of a sort?

It definately ties into his murdering the emperor. We see some glow of sorts leave the Emperor and surround him. I’ve read somewhere on these forums it’s a corruption/twisting of Dwayna’s magic.

As for his plague/affliction, IIRC it was more of forcing the peoples spirits to be ripped from their bodies and then shoved back in.

Apparition.1576:

Go the the Norn Town Hall.. there you will find your answer.

I see nothing there that says they have grown weaker as individuals or a race.

Care to point it out?