Guild Wars 2

Beldin.5498:

Asmodeus.5782:

anzenketh, exactly: up until Claw Island most storylines are just fine, some even brilliant (Charr Blood Legion!). It all falls apart when they get smashed together and we get the phlegmatic shrub as a commander.

That what i meant with Trahearnes Personal Story. From there its really no longer YOUR story.
I mostly liked the first 20 levels, there it really feels like my story. When the orders come in it already gets a little bit more generic but its still fun for a while since there are at least 3 storylines. And at claw islands it goes down the drain and all thats left is Trahearnes Story.

If it’s Trahearnes story, then you play the hero in it more then he does as you get a LOT of credit for a lot of actions.

As I recall, my norn ranger (just finished recently for the reward track) got told about how Norn, Sylvari, and Charr were singing praises about HER (Not Trahearne).

The thing is, GW2 did an excellent job at moving the viewpoint. You go from issues relating directly to your character (For example, Human noble’s party being trashed by bandits, or my Norn ranger seeking to get even with a rival), to showing how that issue isn’t all that important compared to the scope of an entire village being destroyed and the people displaced (the aid another part of order storyline).

Basically, they start seeing how big the world is, and how they are stepping into things much bigger then before.

Lankybrit.4598:

Trahearne!!!!!

OMG I want him to go away so badly.

Funny thing is, he’s actually a LOT better then people give credit for. They just hate paying attention to the personal story.

That isn’t talking about voice acting or writing, but moreso about the “credit” issues people falsely create.

I’ve noticed this happening a bit, especially after the big update… usually it’s little more then a minor annoyance that I just load the area back up with, but I’ve seen it happen a good bit at world bosses, dungeons/fractals (especially toward the end or at bosses), and even guild missions a few times.

Because I notice it purely when it’s a rush to get back in, I don’t take note of the pop up message to see if there is an error listed alongside with it.

This topic is a great showcase of double standards/hypocrisy.

It’s fine for humans to scream in rage over lost nations and/or homelands, and try to retake them.

However, it is NOT fine for other races (Centaurs, Charr, etc) to have the exact same feelings and try to (and/or successfully) take back their lands.

I’m not saying only humans did it.

I’m saying we have explicit statements(later proven true) from a HUMAN VIEWPOINT NO LESS that they did it.

Yes, the author does wish for a more peaceful future, but being in the manuscripts/manual and being the history of Tyria, I doubt this is some “vague author living on the outskirts of society”.

I dislike the “More styled off the one which gets the most deposits” because (to me) that means we’ll just get people dumpinig it in whichever is easier, or complaining when “Their choice” didn’t go through despite seeing lots of resources put it.

The problem with having guild airships for the reaosn you suggest is simply the fact of “adventurer” None in the ‘guild’ of Braham and crew know how to fly an airship, and they’ll want to explore most likely… not be stuck around LA 100% of the time in an airship guarding the place.

And Gwen’s descendant is named Logan.

There were many collectors, some for family related reasons. It COULD be a descendant, but it could also be not. Remember his love interest died during the Searing, alongside his family and probably a chunk of his friends… hence the reason he went to wandering the globe.

You can’t say for sure it is a descendant or simply a reference to Nicolas.

IIRC, there is another Separatist who is in a relationship with somebody who was against the Separatists, and was trying to decide if being with the group was worth it vs the other person.

I don’t recall where it was though, maybe in Fields of Ruin.

It’s a text error most liekly.

You really think somebody would be dumb enough to openly talk about that?

Kessex hills?

It’s part of the human storyline (If your parents were killed). It was basically the family house, they were both murdered there and then buried by allies.

Evon couldn’t have done squat to prepare LA more then Kiel did. Political stonewalling is what kept the defenses from being increased, not individual actions.

Also, as I’ve noted many times back during the day… AA guns would’ve just dropped the airships and all their ammo onto the city with how low they were flying. It’d basically have doubled the amount of damage we saw the breachmaker itself make when it exploded :P

Astralporing.1957:

Larzep.3241:

This zone should be open now due to Scarlets machine being destroyed the walls next to Lion’s Arch shoudl be pretty well shattred to dust, so yeha maybe seek them out for help against the new dragon?

I’d rather seek them out in order to pay them back for all the arrows they shot ino me during the LA evacuation event.

Before the battle they warned people from getting to close to the wall. You really are going to hold them responsible for keeping anybody from approaching the wall during a battle with lots of explosives and miasma? There was even some dredge who spawn and rush the wall during the battle… They simply safeguarded their gate.

Gulesave.5073:

Have you ever stood in the northeastern parts of Queensdale, looked at the rightmost edge of Divinity’s Reach, and compared that to what your minimap was showing you in the same direction? Or climbed the glass and metal hawk above the Queen’s Pavilion and seen how the city walls are peppered with dollhouses?

Distances and landscapes in Tyria are shown to us through varied artistic representation, often using trickery or otherwise skewing perceptions, and should not be taken literally. There isn’t yet a map of Tyria that could be considered canonically accurate.

The DR you can see from queensdale is basically the gate area. You can see where it ‘ends’ and it matches the map… they simply didn’t model the wall continueing onward.

As for distances/landscapes, I’d wager them to be mostly accurate. Likely some borders may simply be hills instead of a small mountain, but remember in realism, people don’t run constantly… they have to take breaks :P.

Bathos.6341:

You can’t have Lion’s Arch as a free city if it’s under the control of one of the major powers. I think the captain’s council really needs reforming, for starters Put Evon Gnashblade on it. Kiel may be kind hearted, but she’s an IDIOT.
Rebuild in a new style. Lion’s arch was made from the hulks of ships washed up by the rise of Orr. There are no new wrecked ships to use for spare parts now, so we’ll need to make the buildings from something else this time. The pact know Lion’s arch is a prime target for the dragons now, give them a bigger presence. Add in pact anti-air cannons to repel dragons and/or Aetherblade airships. How about docking the Spirit of Tyria (the big airship from the final Zhaitan battle) over the city? It’s got to be repaired somewhere and it still has enough guns to help defend the city while it’s being fixed.

A: Gnashblade only cares for himself and his power/money, and nobody else. See escape from LA where he openly stranded civilians to get his merchandise through. Kiel actually cares for the city.
B: It was under threat from Risen (Now mostly a reduce threat as Claw Island shields LA from any attacks from the remaining Risen… which is unlikely). Aetherblades have disappeared, and it’s unlikely for them to attack a major city without serious cause (Aka, Scarlet). Easier to raid transports or caravans then to conquer a city for lotting.

Astral Projections.7320:

Draconius.9076:

bobby their tombstones are located on the ebonhawke graveyard (not a joke it’s real just read the tombstones there and you’ll see)

He has a living descendent who is mentioned by a child NPC in Fireheart Rise

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Villager_
Dialogue
Over here. Don’t let the grawl see you.
What’s going on?
My friend Nick said if I brought him some grawl necklaces, he’d trade me for a gift. He said these kinds of scavenger hunts are an old family tradition for him.
How many have you got so far?
None. I’m not even sure they have grawl necklaces here. But I’m not giving up until I get at least five, no matter how long it takes.

So the background is already set up for him if they ever wanted to put this back in the game.

I took it more as the collector reference in general, not a Nicolas.

That practice is completely gone. Anet explicitly said (at least about modern, playable charr) that they DO NOT EAT sentient beings. They’ll joke about it to scare people/see their faces, but they don’t actually do it.

Also, Pyre told the people to revolt against the Shamans, then left the rebellion to gain speed without him. He didn’t guide or truly influence other then showing others the shamans could be defeated.

The obviously don’t have humans at the lowest, as in the BC they treat humans just like any other race, and even the ones around Ebonhawke/the fort just north of fields of ruin can get along decently.

Flame legion is at the bottom.

Of course, if that ritual requires THAT spot in Orr/Arah (I haven’t beaten that dungeon path), it makes it weird/unlikely to happen much. Especially with the Risen presence still being strong there.

Primordus, Kralk, Jormag, and Zhaitan the characters know. From minions, writings, etc.

Mordremoth they do not.

Yaj.5973:

The story: While eventually the story is all the same. the first few personal story are actually race specific.
Human: I like their story, it feels engaging and tells a story. of my humans, their backgrounds are; a streetrat who lost her parents at birth, a commoner who lost her sister, and a noble who wanted to try other things (circus to be exact). it paints a picture.

sylvari: it somewhat painted a picture. the white stag and the black knight as personifications of other things.

asura: Did not really like their story.

Charr: Was decent, but ultimately i was dissapointed cause the warband was never mentioned again and neither was the other things.

Norn: Although they were drunks in GW1, I remember them being fierce warriors in the cold weather often communing with forest spirits. Every thing in gw2 just keeps referencing the drunkards. Nothing about heroism like Jora. Nothing like a tragic backstory of Svanir the Nornbear. (so this one is more nostalgia than actual story).

Human story was good, though I’ve yet to do the streetrat one.

Sylvari I’ve admittedly have to beat the other ones (I’ve done the green knight, and Malyck path, but got white stag up next, never did the order section of theirs). Was different but okay.

Asura I’ve yet to get past the first part, but that’s from a lack of playing him and not interest.

Charr, I agree with. The Warband took a backseat during the order parts (Though Reeva appeared often) and then the “Pick an order permanently and leave your warband behind” was bleh, but I think that’s my personal response to the wording of it.

Norn… disagree. My guardian did the “Lost horn” path and it hardly referenced the ‘drunkards’ and such. Neither did the Rival line with the tournament fight(my ranger did that). The depiction I’ve seen doesn’t paint them in much a different light. Great, fierce hunters and warriors who at the same time love life, beer, and company.

Aquila.5142:

Couple of things they could have done that I genuinely think would eradicate the vastly disproportionate differences in player distribution:
- Norn made shorter. Making them on average just a foot above a human would be enough to make them appear distinct and imposing but not look like giants.
- Charr made more straight-backed and given ‘softer’ features, not any less ugly, just features that don’t make them quite so alien. In other words, just a tiny step closer to resembling humanoids.
- Asura raised a few inches, body width decreased in favour of being slightly taller but still not tall as tall as a human.
- Sylvari given more natural colours and less cartoonish faces/hairstyles.

So basically, go WoW and have almost all the races be like humans with slightly changed differences. (Or other MMOs or settings).

No thank you. I’ll take my Charr who more resemble big cats then humans over worgen with very obvious human traits in a werewolf form. I’ll take my clearly non-human Asura over “super tiny human” gnomes.

I’ll take the giant norn with great feats over somebody “slightly taller” then most humans. Let the ‘giants’ be GIANT. not a mere foot taller.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

I like how Arenanet has done the races. I get really tired of all of the MMO-clones where every single race is just a slightly altered human. I know that it makes it easier for people to relate to, but it isn’t creative at all and it isn’t realistic. (Not to say that fantasy is realistic, but if you’re going to have multiple intelligent races the chances are they are not all going to look like humans… Evolution doesn’t work that way)

Indeed. You don’t get human, human with skin pattern, human with facial ridges, etc (Aka, Star Trek and it’s vast number of races which = human with one detail changed).

In GW, the various races actually are different, and hardly can be placed as “Hey, that’s a human with x changed.”

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

Actual we know that they took the land from no prior race. Since before humanity no race has claimed the land as per my prescribed definition. All tests must be in evidenced.

A peoples that claim the land as their must show evidence that not only have they actively use the land they MUST pass the test of showing that they have “developed” the land. As well as all tests that form the definition!

The “development” test is proven by means of permanent structures consistent with on-going permanent settlement. There must also be signs of cultivation of the land for the production of food capable of feeding said settlement(s). Clearly there was no evidence of a peoples that pass this test to any reasonable level.

And as for being able to “willing and able to hold the land via force of arms”? There was no evidence that humanity face armed resistance when they claimed Ascalon. So this test was also not met.

Thus as already stated Humanity claim on Ascalon was legitimate and legal.

This new race of creatures was none other than us humans, and in no time we began to take over. Cities bloomed across the continent. Walls were erected, and weapons forged. Those things that we humans lacked, we simply built. We didn’t need tough hides nor rending claws when we could make metal armor and sharpened spears. We discovered fire, wrote books of our own, passed knowledge to one another through song and verse. Soon humans had everything we required, and it was then that we began to prey upon the other creatures. We hunted animals for sport, chased the druids from the jungle, and took up residence in lands that did not belong to us. We became the masters of this world. We took all of the privilege and none of the responsibility.

Actually, we EXPLICITLY know they have taken lands from other races. Charr and Centaurs to name two groups we know about. Centaurs were pushed from Kryta and Charr from Ascalon.

Also, your statements sound like the Native Americans (who IIRC, correct me if wrong) didn’t have permanent structures. So did they have no claim to the land then?

ALSO, there is no evidence of any sorts of how hard a time human did or did not have driving the Charr from Ascalon. We just have the founding date of the nation. So in response to your second to last statement, there is also no evidence the humans had a hard time pushing them north.

Just like the claim the settlers had on the land over the Native Americans was ‘legal’ or ‘legitimate’. They disregarded everybody else but themselves. I’m not painting Ascalon or humanity as villains, just they viewed the Charr as beasts, and it came back and literally bit them in the kitten .

edit: Actually, the quote line can explicitly be taken as they literally drove other races from their homelands (hence lands that did not belong to us).

One thing I’d admit. If we factor in guns or explosives, the balance is clearly shifted.

But if we talk purely just melee combat like EOTN (maybe some magic thrown in)… probably more like the lore examples.

And, as Tarreth said, warbands can be anything from (IIRC) 4 to 12 people.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

That’s really the problem – they were cardboard stand-ins for orcs/goblins/whatever. They had very little real . . . well, anything to them until Eye of the North. Which, notably, certain people like to lump together with Guild Wars 2 and not Guild Wars Trilogy (Prophecies, Factions, and Nightfall).

So if you look at just the Trilogy at all? Not much there to work with as far as characterization goes.

Which, naturally, means it’s a crime to add any.

Of course, we can’t develop any of the other races. It has to be purely human according to some it seems :P.

Obsidian.1328:

It wasn’t a wrong assumption. If the Proph writers had meant for it to be some Charr homeland, they certainly would have mentioned it at least once in the whole campaign. There was never any indication, whether through the lore nor through direct quotes, of it having been some ancestral homeland of the Charr. You’d think, at any point in that long saga, you’d hear a Charr say something to the effect of “We’re taking our home back!” You don’t because they aren’t from there…well that and they couldn’t even speak the common tongue. It probably would have been a better story had the writer decided to do that, but they didn’t.

Definition of homeland? Just use my Rome example. Oh and Ascalon is Ascalons homeland, not humanities in general.

Charr didn’t think of humans (at that time) as ‘people’, just invaders. Likewise true for the humans toward the Charr.

You keep bouncing back to that as if it magically means GW2 (and EOTN, and other) lore is wrong, because totally they can’t have things which are unexplained/unanswered and then later they go back and fill in the gaps right?

Oh, you mean like they did for Proph and Factions in Nightfall! Charr were created as a villian race, and then later their lore and history actually delved into. IIRC, that’s EXPLICITLY stated somewhere. We never heard Charr talk in Proph, infact the first time we talked to one is in Nightfall. And he is in confusion/trying to find the titans (their gods at that time).

He also was friendly and saw no reason to fight with humans in the realm of torment, which is a viewpoint shared by some modern charr with the dragons. In face of greater threat, other hatred can be set aside. Infact from that guys dialogue I see no hatred of humanity.

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

Based on available evidence its clear that it was Humanity that lay claim to Ascalon as a homeland first. And thus built many cities on said land. The claim is widely accept by every human. From the modest farm-hand right up to and including the reigning monarch of the day right up to King Adelbern. In fact “For Ascalon” is a common greeting used by all Ascalonian humans towards any other human or friend.

At no time did the pc see any evidence that any significant group of npc humans or any npc in fact claiming otherwise during the whole Prophecies campaign. It can be seen , taken together there is at least circumstantial evidence that it was Humans that formed the first legitimate claim to the land and held it up to and including the events of the “Eye of the North”.

Humanity has been there 1170 years as of Pre searing. Of course, if Humans treated Charr as the settlers treated the native Americans, of course they wouldn’t see ‘signs of claiming the land’.

They’d just drive those ‘primitives’ out without a care of the other sides thoughts.

redslion.9675:

Kalavier.1097:

redslion.9675:

Considering an asuran warrior deals the same damage as a norn warrior doing the same thing, I think in GW2 individual strength doesn’t matter at highest levels, because the armor you wear is an exoskeleton that greatly enhances your capabilities.

Game mechanics.

I am from Dark Souls school: Game Mechanics = Game World phenomena

In GW2, that is untrue.

Everybody is balanced in terms of speed, jump height, and damage.

A single norn can take out entire warbands, they cannot in game mechanics.

Asura likewise, cannot run as fast as a Norn (because shorter legs/smaller lung capacity), ingame they can.

bullyrook.2165:

Kalavier.1097:

Charr can put aside their hate and move forward.

Separatists and obviously some human players cannot, nor separate the fact Flame legion/shamans do NOT equal all of the Charr… which is sad.

Renegades cough cough

Yes, the renegades are just as bad. But they are a smaller group overall in comparison.

Also the fact in the personal story their leadership gets destroyed.

Obsidian.1328:

Kalavier.1097:

So it’s bad for the Centaurs to be shown to retake their lands from humans who have explicitly taken lands from them…

Is Kryta their homeland?

Does it matter? Humans explicitly took land from them, so they should just sit back and accept this right?

Realistically, Ascalon wasn’t going to last, period. All they had was two cities as of post-searing, Rin was destroyed. Ascalon city, and a bunch of ruins. ANYBODY could conquer it. A focused Charr invasion (Likely, regardless of Titan loss) would destroy whats left.

And that’s exactly what happened.

It was supposed to last. The Empire Divided passages attest to that, which, btw, were written by the same author.

I’m unsure how that attests to it… bar having events from factions (which took place same year as proph post searing). Infact, they basically just have mention of factions events as of him wandering around(Shiro that is). I see nothing that really supports Ascalon lasting for many, many years.

Ascalon was a dead person clinging to life support. Kryta was rebuilding. Of the two nations, which do you see lasting 250 years? I see Kryta lasting. If you didn’t see that coming in the lore, I pity you. You also basically say “Not because of humanities usurping the land” yet that is EXACTLY what happened to Ascalon. So you would accept that… besides when it actually happens?

I see them both lasting actually. But I certainly wouldn’t have had it 250 years later and modernized the game with tanks and lasers and flying battleships…another argument.
Also, all humans usurped the land from Tyrians, they aren’t from here remember? The moral schtick of GW1 was to provide impetus and reason to why the world was burning. Some of that was due to humanity, and some of it was plain old evilness.

[/quote]

Ascalon had basically no natural resources, very little farmable land (if any), water was apparently scarce, food likely worse off. and numbers dwindle heavily.

How could they last many years, especially if the Charr decided to finish it off and charge again? They had ONE city as of proph (Rin was destroyed), and handful of outposts of structures elsewhere. I think Ascalon surviving for a long while (Especially under the rule of Adelbern who refused ANY aid from Kryta) is unrealistic to the lore.

Obsidian.1328:

Yes, now they don’t. But back then they did. It wasn’t the Flame Legion forcing them into anything back then, it was all of them. That’s how they were written and portrayed by the author.

The charr received barely ANY writing in Proph, so nobody could really make out anything of their culture other then “They revere fire!” and “They hate humans.” We NEVER saw them talk, just charge and roar.

So again, how can we say the shamans or flame legion weren’t forcing them or in control? Because we have NO indicators of their culture at all.

Obsidian.1328:

Kalavier.1097:

Nobody is saying the searing was warranted or right. Infact, a large chunk of Charr think of it as bad.

Flame legion is, and was bad guys. That’s the BIGGEST problem I see here and ingame (even among friends). People universally hate the charr, but in reality they just hate the flame legion actions.

No. Just No. That is the biggest bunch of crap ANet has tried to lay on us. Until GW2 development, it was ALL Charr that wanted to roflstomp humanity. Don’t put that crap out there so players will believe it, it’s irresponsible.

A: I’m talking ‘modern’ Charr, not the charr of prophecies time.
B: Yes, charr wanted to stomp humanity. Then they had a leadership change. Now they view the war as done (as it was mainly about Ascalon) and focus on bigger threats.
C: SOME Charr praise the searing and the leader of the Charr at the battle of Rin. Others think the tale is twisted and seek the truth. Some hate humans, others hate what the Flame Legion did. They don’t all share the same viewpoint.

bullyrook.2165:

Kalavier.1097:

Nobody is saying the searing was warranted or right. Infact, a large chunk of Charr think of it as bad.

Flame legion is, and was bad guys. That’s the BIGGEST problem I see here and ingame (even among friends). People universally hate the charr, but in reality they just hate the flame legion actions.

And yet Pyre Fierceshot was an advocate of the Searing and was proud that his father had a hand in it?

And Pyre Fierceshot is a chunk of the Charr population?
Perhaps not a LARGE chunk think of the searing badly, but a number do. There is one in Diessa who speaks about it. Zalvax Brokenclaw

“It was originally a military outpost. During the war, the Flame Legion—murderous villains—started attacking settlements. Many Ascalonian citizens fled to Oldgate, but in vain. "
“The Flame Legion hit the outpost like a hurricane. They didn’t just kill inhabitants, they busted down the walls and tore the place apart. I guess the ghosts here don’t realise we’re not the Flame Legion. "

I’d agree with the white charr just being easier to spot. I don’t think they look terrible but in a crowd the white furred/armored ones will be easier to see then a darker furred charr with dark armor.

Of course, my white tiger styled Charr is using a dark brown/black coat (engineer). :P

Charr can put aside their hate and move forward.

Separatists and obviously some human players cannot, nor separate the fact Flame legion/shamans do NOT equal all of the Charr… which is sad.

Nobody is saying the searing was warranted or right. Infact, a large chunk of Charr think of it as bad.

Flame legion is, and was bad guys. That’s the BIGGEST problem I see here and ingame (even among friends). People universally hate the charr, but in reality they just hate the flame legion actions.

redslion.9675:

Considering an asuran warrior deals the same damage as a norn warrior doing the same thing, I think in GW2 individual strength doesn’t matter at highest levels, because the armor you wear is an exoskeleton that greatly enhances your capabilities.

Game mechanics.

Also anther detail, GW1 metour shower was a hefty spell that exhausted the caster (in game mechanics).

Who says the reason ‘minions’ don’t do such is because their undead form can’t power the spell? Or it’d exhaust/weaken the minion a deal.

Most player necromancers (and allies) run standard minions, and small numbers of those. These are noticably weaker then something like the Undead under the Lich from prophecies, who controlled an army and they could do a lot more.

Obsidian.1328:

Kav -snip-

The Separatists are deliberately portrayed as single-minded fanatics because it suits ANets purposes for this game to do so. They couldn’t, for instance, have them look sympathetic to the pc in any way because that would undermine the cultural meta for the whole game…i.e. races unite to defeat uber dragons.

For those npc’s you mention, it’s ok that they dislike the current situation, but it’s not ok to do something about. There’s a difference there too.

Actually, there are some which are more sympathetic. Thing is, like ANY extrimist group… they aren’t going to be pretty. They aren’t a “Ascalon for humans!” group in actuality. They are a “kitten Kryta, kitten Charr!” group.

The centaurs, I would argue, have a similar situation. Had ANet decided, as an alternative, to keep Ascalon human and have Centaurs overrun Kryta to be used as a playable race(instead of Charr), I would have had issue equally.

So it’s bad for the Centaurs to be shown to retake their lands from humans who have explicitly taken lands from them…

But you’re still missing the point entirely. The reason why all of this exists in the first place isn’t because of any lore perspective at all. It’s because of two reasons: 1) The graphical detail of the game only permitting a certain amount of the face of Tyria to be rendered, at least at launch. Knowing this before hand, they had to make hard choices on which races occupy which areas. Apparently there wasn’t enough time or space to give new races land outside the established human areas…so they simply took over human land to do so. And 2) Knowing also that they wanted to provide racial parity with this game(again, in sync with the overall theme of the game), they had to choose only one spot where the humans would be. Obviously Kryta took that cake, and Ascalon was an obvious choice for the Charr.

The point is, ANet didn’t care enough for the original game to keep any of those human areas intact. Much of Kryta is now Sylvari and Asura land. And don’t forget that what they did to the dwarves is basically the same thing they did with the Ascalons and Charr. They killed them off to make way for the Norn, the only difference is they did so heroically. This, of course, was all decided on many years ago with EotN.

Realistically, Ascalon wasn’t going to last, period. All they had was two cities as of post-searing, Rin was destroyed. Ascalon city, and a bunch of ruins. ANYBODY could conquer it. A focused Charr invasion (Likely, regardless of Titan loss) would destroy whats left.

And that’s exactly what happened.

GW2 is all about looks. Taking the time and effort to design such a supremely gorgeous world(and it is very gorgeous), while allowing for 4 new playable races, meant the end of the human nations on Tyria. Not because of any long-unraveling narrative just now unfolding. Not because of humanities early pride or usurpation of the land. And not because of any long-sleeping dragons.

It would have been better(and more honest) had they kept it like it was and, you know, use the other 95% of the globe for new races. A small cut in graphical quality is a very small price to pay for staying true to the narrative which, by the way, made possible this game.

Ascalon was a dead person clinging to life support. Kryta was rebuilding. Of the two nations, which do you see lasting 250 years? I see Kryta lasting. If you didn’t see that coming in the lore, I pity you. You also basically say “Not because of humanities usurping the land” yet that is EXACTLY what happened to Ascalon. So you would accept that… besides when it actually happens?

GW minions don’t resemble humans at all most of the time. Besides, who says meteor shower or hundred blades is the best thing to use?

“Forcing a spirit to fight is illegal” Ahem. Ritualists

Also, Crusader Aliyana… simple. Her role in the squad/as a risen wasn’t needing her spirit to be shackled with it. Just like Romke and her crew.

However a priest of a god or the king? That’s something where the spirit would increase the Risen forms power by a good bit.

Again about Rurik, likely a thing where you can have a powerful minion, but putting the soul into it buffs the power.

Assuming the charr slash connects and accurately hits with enough damage to cause it.

Or the slash isn’t blocked and the Charr’s face punched in.

edit: How would a claw slash break their ribs? o_O.

Tuomir.1830:

EDIT: To make it clear, I mean that to pull a soul from the Underworld, the dragon requires the corresponding body.

Exactly. He can drag the spirits of the priests and kings back to their body, but can’t simply steal whatever one he wants from the underworld.

OR simply put, Zhaitan doesn’t KNOW ABOUT THEM. Shiro knew about those heroes, he knew about the temple.

Zhaitan? Does not.

Who, or what in Orr would know about them?

Obsidian.1328:

Perhaps “evil” is extreme on my part, but certainly “wrong” fits. When a Renown Heart requires you to drag a Separatist out of his home and beat him to death, that’s a problem. There’s really no middle ground for this in ANet’s eyes; you’re either a warmongering terrorist who will kill innocents to win back your land, or you’re a civilized “brother” of Tyria who knows better than to stay mired in the past. What humans, if any, are there in GW2 who view Ascalon as human land that ANet portrays as “good”?

IIRC, the Separatist comes out of the home and instantly attacks you. Self defense. Like many groups, they started off good then the people who just want to kill got in charge. Still, there is a difference between viewing Ascalon as human land but admitting that they need a peace treaty/wanting to LIVE without constant war, and going “kitten YOU JENNAH. kitten YOU CHARR. WE WANT WAR ENDLESSLY!”

Aka, it’s more like a split between those who are stubborn to the point of being unable to let go (Like Adelbern), vs those who range from hatred to neutrality, but are smart enough to see bigger threats and accept peace, however short.

Also, there are still some npcs in the treaty area and Ebonhawke who dislike the Charr, even hate them, but are willing to set it aside PURELY because of the Dragon threat.

Humans of Ebonhawke view Ascalon as human land, and they have a good chunk (all of Fields of Ruin) for humans. Ascalon settlement is the only other town of Ascalon people (besides Rurikton) and they are more concerned about the Centaurs, though some are convinced that someday they’ll reclaim Ascalon from the Charr. Those aren’t presented as evil or wrong, just stubborn. The rest are Krytans, Elonians, or Canthans (fewer of the latter two obviously) who don’t care, or see obsessing over it as foolish (quote, the minister going “The searing is ancient history, get over it.”). I’ve never seen or heard about this “Ascalon for humans is wrong and/or evil!” thing, outside the “This group(Separatists) is clearly a bunch of murdering loonies.”

So I suppose you are fine with Centaurs, who were confirmed even in GW1 (at least nightfall) to be forcibly removed from their lands, and want revenge and payback? It’s basically the exact same situation. Only change is Charr in GW2 are shown/admitted to have both heroes AND villians. Hell, Charr are around that openly disagree with the ‘official’ tale of Rurik and stormcaller.

Obsidian.1328:

Kalavier.1097:

“Shame on them for going back and filling in a completely blank part of lore, explaining the reasons for this race to so viciously attack Ascalon and humanity!”

“Shame on them for actually have the bad guys HAVE A REASON.”

What are you talking about?

How you’ve been sounding. You said your purpose is to ‘shame’ Anet, and all you’ve been doing really is complaining that they went and put in information into an almost entirely blank area of the lore, the Charr motivations.

Or maybe Zhaitan just yoinked souls from the underworld for important Orrian people, like kings/queens, priests, etc.

If he doesn’t know about any of the GW1 heroes, why would he take their souls?

Amethyst Lure.5624:

Honestly, this has little to do with Guardian and a lot to do with the particular Norn, in my opinion.

Indeed.

“Shame on them for going back and filling in a completely blank part of lore, explaining the reasons for this race to so viciously attack Ascalon and humanity!”

“Shame on them for actually have the bad guys HAVE A REASON.”

I’d bet when it was intact it looked a bit different. (As in, cataclysm, underwater time, and rising jumbled some of the structures a bit)

I was curious about the giant arcs you can see in Arah and Cursed shore really.

Obsidian.1328:

You’re forgetting the Charr weren’t from Ascalon until last year. Until then, my statements aren’t a double standard because you can’t replace one name with another and still have it hold true. Now of course you can. But that’s not my fault. ANet created the double standard with this when they changed the “homeland” thing, not me. The double standard now is ANet trying present any human as wrong or evil who thinks Ascalon should be fought for by Ascalons. It’s rather silly you don’t see that.

You are forgetting that until last year, we had no clear idea of why the Charr fought the Ascalon humans, and who humanity had taken land from (as clearly stated in thei manuscripts.

The thing is, they aren’t presenting any human who wants Ascalon back as being evil. Only extremists who would kill humans as well as charr to keep their ‘freedom’ and war going.

Proof of humans outside that group being treated as evil? I don’t see any. Now if you could provide that maybe you could convince people of that… but I’ve seen nothing supporting it as a world/out of world view. Maybe a charr here or there views Rurik as a villian, but overall the world doesn’t.

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

Kalavier.1097:

Again, who would teach the humans all the secrets? How could Ascalon even capitalize on it, given how their resource base and population was almost entirely destroyed? Note, the ability to make Deldirmor metals? Lost until just recently when a Norn found it again.

I still see no explanation for how or WHY humanity would gain all this knowledge.

Really?

Odgen Stonehealer is both a Deldrimor Dwarf and a healer by profession. This gives him at least two skill sets. But only one is relevant here, other than as a healer that would also make him a learned scholar. As an obviously highly educated member of his race he can read and write his own language thus all and any Dwarven texts can be translated through him.

And finally as a result of him take part in the slayer of “The Great Destroyer” he would have as a result dedicated the rest of his life to study its origins and all related artifacts. As a good friend to Gwen and Kieran he could see in her and her partner the fire to make things right. Thus he would have done what he could for humanity – starting with assisting in the recovery of the Deldrimor Legacy.

A: Being a Deldrimor Dwarf means nothing besides he can read the language. If he understood how to make the black powder or Deldrimor steel, he would’ve shared that. Hint, it’s obvious he doesn’t as it’s only recently (as in, personal story time) that Norn discovered the method of making the steel again.
B: Knowing how to read blacksmithing blueprints doesn’t mean he can teach humans to craft the things correctly.
C: Who says he dedicated his life to studying the great destroyer? The Great destroyer, which I’ll remind you, was killed and nobody suspected the giant statue was infact Primordus’s head. Who says he was great friends of Gwen and Kieran? Who says he met Kieran at all? Friendly doesn’t mean best friends for life.

Also the fact that Hareh and other awakened are being encountered for… how many years after Joko was imprisoned and thus had no control?

Arrion.2185:

Dignity. Guardians are divine wielders of magic, think Paladin from Dungeons and Dragons.

Nit-picking, but Guardians are not like Paladins. They don’t wield ‘divine’ magic, it’s more spirit magic for a chunk of their abilities. They don’t have moral codes or restrictions either (though most tend to be decent people anyway). They are similar in the “Magic using, heavy armor warrior who tends to be protective of allies” :P

Cunning or Strength (in this case) both fit a Norn Guardian.

A captain of a ship is likely to have more intelligence then a general thrall.

Basic Risen are mindless(mostly), as when they set up a trap in Forging the Pact (IIRC) the various npcs mention they’ve only seen Risen Lurk and swarm, and NEVER use tactics.

“Prior to beginning of peace negotiations between the charr and humans, ever since the fall of Ascalon City, the charr laid siege to the fortress giving no rest until now. Over time, many charr thought the fortress is not worth the effort, so only the Iron Legion and a few individual warbands continued to attack the fortress with their siege weapons. "

The wording of the mission you speak is…
Commander Samuelsson: Your timing was perfect, Warmaster Kernsson. I can’t thank you enough.
Commander Samuelsson: The Renegades are getting bolder. This is the first time they’ve ever tried to bomb the fortress from the inside.

Talking purely about the Renegade charr, not the Charr in general.

Khandarus.2738:

Yes, EbonHawke has plot armor. Do you think Ash and blood would sit with their thumbs up their kitten and wait for Iron to knock down the walls?

No, I never said that. I believe I said… this…

Even then, as I recall the tale going… it started with everybody sieging Ebonhawke.

Then Ash/blood legion got bored/fed up with it and left.

Then Iron legion got bored of it, and they left mostly too, leaving behind a force to bombard the walls, test new siege weapons, and keep the siege going.

Which says all three legions (at the time) assaulted the wall. Eventually, it was just Iron, then went down to a few Iron legion warbands.

Now the wiki says that is was Iron legion + a few individual warbands, so slightly off what I said. Again, if the charr wanted to assault Ebonhawke with the full force of their legions (Ignoring the fact it’d let the ghosts and flame legion rampage through their holdings)… they’d have to cross the brand. Which isn’t easy for small groups so why would it be easy for an army plus caravans and siege equipment?

Khandarus.2738:

My problem with the Ebonhawke wall argument, is that place has plot armor. If you strip the plot armor that place would be bombarded by every siege machine the charr could muster and those walls would crumble.

Have you seen the thickness of the walls?

With Flame Legion and ghosts, the Charr were forced to divert forces to keep those at bay. Even then, as I recall the tale going… it started with everybody sieging Ebonhawke.

Then Ash/blood legion got bored/fed up with it and left.

Then Iron legion got bored of it, and they left mostly too, leaving behind a force to bombard the walls, test new siege weapons, and keep the siege going.

And now? The charr CAN’T muster a force big enough to destroy Ebonhawke. The Brand literally is a border that is (in canon/lore) hell to cross.

We know only higher ranking ones have sentience, and thus probably souls. The rest? It’s not really stated.

Somebody in Anet (I forget who) explicitly said people can use magic to prolong their lives to the point of living to GW2.

It’s not stated to be a necromancer thing in specific.

I am unsure if I believe most undead have a soul/spirit in them as opposed to simply being animated by magic.