Guild Wars 2

Indeed, and each race can approach things differently.

For example, ranger:

Norn = hunter, probably one out for monthes at a time and returns to sell the furs he/she gathers.
Charr = scout, recon for warband
Asure = animal behaviour scientist or trainer, or something similar
human = mix of norn and charr, scouts, hunters (perhaps not as far traveling)
Sylvari = I got nothing but they fit it naturally.. probably something like nature defender/healer.

It’s just one class example, and probably doesn’t cover the various options or ‘archtypes’ you could pick even for ranger.

NPC at the bottom of bazaar/near the dock says they changed the appearance/added decorations to reflect some of the cultures they’ve encountered in travels, and recently had been to one, but it was a long journey.

So yeah, there are implications they may have visited Cantha.

They are watchknights again.

editL I doubt Caudecus is manipulating Jennah. She is cunning and that’s why she put him into her protective custody, because then his actions become a lot smaller because of being constantly watched.

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

Dustfinger.9510:

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

Also how would Crown control of Lion’s Arch be of any international interest? The political status of Lion’s Arch is a Krytan domestic issue. And so long as the freedom and security of its citizens continue to be guaranteed and all the rights upheld – foreign powers can do nothing.

This is all dependant on how the politics of LA have intermingeled with other nations.

Your opinion assumes that Lion’s Arch is international territory. It is not. It is a domestic situation and although foreign interests have current commercial interest within Lion’s Arch their governments do NOT have political jurisdiction.

In the setting the borders are much more fluid and not hard lines for the most part.

Also, yeah, LA is an independent city state with it’s own treaties and laws. Many of those may be voided in Kryta took over, perhaps with dangerous results (Such as trade routes).

Dustfinger.9510:

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

Also how would Crown control of Lion’s Arch be of any international interest? The political status of Lion’s Arch is a Krytan domestic issue. And so long as the freedom and security of its citizens continue to be guaranteed and all the rights upheld – foreign powers can do nothing.

This is all dependant on how the politics of LA have intermingeled with other nations.

Which would probably be a bit. The Captains council is entirely neutral, which makes it such a great trading center and cultural diffusion.

Also, that’s anothe reason Krytan crown controlling LA may not work. Because the rules would change and the city is used to one that may be a bit more open then DR rules. Ministry probably wouldn’t know exactly to handle it.

And given how they debate on troop deployments, Lionguard would only ADD to that problem as while they have more forces, they also have more places to defend. Better to let the Lionguard and Captain’s council be free and handle their own issues.

+ the fact the havens are technically protected from Centaur raids due to some treaty LA and the centuars have. La going under Kryta control may void that, making trade routes a lot more dangerous.

You can get inside the house with mesmer/necro teleport trickery… but yes, it’s the house of Maeva, a friend of the priory.

War is never so cleanly won.

Charr case in point, they have been fighting the flame legion for how long? And they have a heavily organized military force.

Soundless live in the middle of Warden held land…

Also, Kiel threatened that because Gnashblade was willing (and likely WAS GOING TO) Leave LA in the dust to die, and they needed those extra weapons and armor for the lionguard to retake the city.

I love how people think humanity has so little left for population.

Cantha is there, and Elona is there. True, the second is under the control of Joko, but the populace is still alive. However, that’s out of character information. A human minister today can’t assume those nations are still out there or active due to no contact.

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

Since It’s now agreed that the five races are not equal and that teir natural characteristic remain very much intact if only temporarily hidden beneath the surface for the sake of playing nice while there are Elder Dragons to fight…. what happens after?

How does Humanity keep Kryta and Ebonhawke in Tyria to say nothing for the moment about the other continents? It seems to be arenanet has done everything possible to ensure that not only are the humans are militarily weak and disorganised – they will remain that way or die.

For humanity to recover and ensure prosperity and security in need to:
- Neutralise the Centaurs as a threat to the daily lives of its citizens.
- Re-take full and effective control of its main commercial and trade center – Lion’s Arch.
- Ensure the continual security of The Stronghold of Ebonhawke and its territories.
- Merge the Seraph and the Lionguard into a single military organisation.
- Have the Shining Blade and the Seraph select they members from the best of the Lionguard – since both continue to serve as the elite of the Krytan military.
– The Ebon Vanguard remain and continue to serve Human Ascalon – which is effectively Ebonhawke for now….

A: By the time all the dragons are dealt with, the Charr will likely be behind wanting to conqure the rest of humanity, which they basically are at right now. If the Klingons, who are more violent, can be at peace with the federation in star trek, I think the Charr can pull it off too.

1: Valid point. Centaurs are the main threat bar dragons toward Kryta.
2: No, Kryta gave LA freedom to operate independently, retaking it would set everybody else off and against humanity.
3: True.
4: Why? LA is not ruled by Kryta, and is a multi racial group. Even then they have different focuses.
5: see above.
6: which is happening anyway.

Human’s aren’t militarily weak and disorganized. They do have their hands full with the centaurs however.

They had them before on the ship (the ballistsas that is).

Also, one of the Zephrites near the dock mentions the decorations are the result of them modifying the place to show off various cultures they met, and (despite being a long journy) they had been to a great place.

Given the nature of decorations, they could’ve been to cantha.

They attempted to warn the others about the attack (because Adelberns aide warned them before he died). IIRC, it was a label of coward, not deserter, and they were bound and left on ‘viewing hill’ outside of AC. When the Foefire hit, they were the only survivors that I know of.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

I might be mistaken, but I believe I remember Rytlock saying that the four AC sub-bosses were all still alive when the Flame Legion stormed the city.

EDIT: “The Sorcerer-King Adelbern had four great champions when the Foefire struck.” Thank you, Jelle! So bizarre as it is to say, Vassar and Ralena where either buried after it, or had had their crypt prepared in advance (the more likely, in my opinion).

But it sounded like his closest advisor thought the forefire was drastic and insane… I don’t think others would agree with Adelberm. Having the tombs prepared in advance for the foefire seems… out there. Though the necromancer seemed aware and actually semi friendly until Rytlock attacked :P.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Guns and cannons are not the same thing.

Like Drax said, the first to use cannons (as far as we know) were the Luxons, while the first to have guns were charr (whom got blackpowder from dwarven ruins we’re told).

We never saw cannons outside of Luxons in GW1, though there are cannons used by Foefire ghosts, though how much hold this has on “what they had” over “what they’ve copied since” is unknown – but the latter doesn’t make much sense with the whole “reliving the last day of their life” situation.

Well, we know the one aide to Adelbern made maps of ascalon city AFTER the foefire and scattered them in the wind.

And unless a lot of the henchmen/trainers died before the foefire (and got placed in the catacombs), you could imply they died in the foefire, then the ghosts actually buried their bodies… but that’s getting into the weird bit.

I put no blame on humanity, nor do I say the Charr are peaceful.

I however understand the fact of times change, and people change with it. The intro cutscene (at least iron legion) puts the viewpoint clearly at “The blood debt humanity owed us over ascalon is paid and over.”

Leaderships change. Was the imperator of the Iron legion the same back then as there is now?

Charr can live peacefully with humans. I don’t see them returning to a war with humans even after the dragons die, unless MAJOR leadership change happens for either side.

I think the mistake is assuming the Charr can’t live without a war.

While we don’t see it, I think the Charr do value the people who do backline work. For example, some of the paperwork/office duty charr in the offices at the BC seem very proud of their work, and the Tribunes respect them.

I think if the person has use or skills still, the Charr would find a way to use them.

“The charr wanted to conquer Kryta.”

“The Charr were sending out peace messages.”

Which is it? Did they want to wipe out humanity and take Kryta, or did they want to go toward peace?

The legions cannot afford a war against Kryta. The logistics alone make it impossible.

If it’s tied to the jungle dragon, it may be immune in that sense. The other major jungle wurm is implied to be tied to it after all.

They sound like teenagers? Not to me. The male voice fit when I had an older looking Male thief…

I find the female voice unfitting for some of the younger/more innocent looking faces as well, while it works on the more serious ones.

There are serious female human faces. There are a LOT of armors that aren’t revealing…

Charr, in general(bar flame legion), seem to be the type that once a war is over, it’s over.

They retook Ascalon and won that war, why continue fighting humanity when it doesn’t serve a purpose now? Hell, some of their dialogue toward the ghosts seems to point at that. “We won, you lost, STAY DEAD.”

Well, something else does get ripped off when he breaks free of the harpoons, but I couldn’t tell what it was besides seeing a chunk of something with a green blood trail falling.

I still don’t see how Kasmeer and Marjory are ‘OVERDOING’ it. Or how their relationship is overdoing the amount of homosexual relationships.

Who knows, but the fact remains that a CHARR mentions the Black Citadel was forming peace with Ebonhawke until a Krytan prince butted in.

The Charr (majority) of today are not like the Charr majority of Gw1.

bullyrook.2165:

Kalavier.1097:

Sartharina.3542:

bullyrook.2165:

Rurik died for nothing.

Ebonhawke still stands, and now prospers thanks to a new alliance with the Charr. The descendents of the people of Ascalon are living in Gendarran Fields, and were safe until the Centaur arrived. Rurik didn’t die for “nothing”, even if the future he secured for his people wasn’t a return to the past they lost. The people and legacy still live on, and that’s what’s important.

Hell, the implication the one wiki article gave about a prince of Kryta was Ebonhawke and the Black Citadel was heading for peace on their own long before Kralk rose… until a Krytan prince butted in and played soldier (making the fields run red with blood).

Rurik had no hand in the creation of Ebonhawk. Ironically, it was his half-crazed father that gave that order.

And a solid chunk of his remaining citizens fled with the Ebon Vanguard on his order or on their own will.

Either way, once we left Ascalon in GW1, the story NEVER was about saving Ascalon (their homeland for proph characters) or returning there besides the single titan quest. Rurik wanted to see the people under him thrive and prosper again. THEY DID. Ascalon settlement is now one of the oldest, and largest towns in Kryta. You call his death crossing the shiverpeaks for nothing when that happened? When enough Ascalons are in Kryta not only to have Ascalon Settlement, but ALSO Rurikton?

They left Ascalon for good basically.

Also, what I was talking about. Prince Edair.

Commander Steamshroud viewed him as barely better than a mercenary. He notes that Black Citadel was forging a peace with Ebonhawke until Edair was assigned the captaincy there. After that, the southern fields ran with blood—both charr and human—just so a human boy could play with real soldiers instead of wooden ones. He goes on to speculate that those “victories on the field of battle” earned him his father’s approval…or made Beade believe that Edair would be able to defend Kryta.

After his naming as heir, word went around that Edair was looking to increase Kryta’s holdings even before he was formally crowned. He had made no real headway in Ascalon during his time in command there, so he looked instead to Lion’s Arch, hoping to prove his worth by seizing a jewel for his new crown. After the Great Krytan Blockade, however, he was convinced to let Lion’s Arch stand free.

Tarreth.8914:

And then, a wild Iron Legion Centurion/Tribune appears just before Tiberia Falcongaze, while she’s protecting an Flame Legion rat.
Oh, hello there, traitor~

What then?

Besides the fact a flame legion member would never seek protection from a female charr?

She might be protective of any who need it, but if they refuse any aid or attack her they make themselves an enemy. Don’t jump to conclusions too fast :P.

I’ve heard about blood legion story, done iron legion story personally. Never heard about Ash legion or read about it though.

The main difference is the Priory doesn’t hate the dredge or (besides that one) perhaps WANT to conflict. IIRC, the dragon eye gem event had the priory guy trying to be diplomatic about it, only to get attacked.

They just want the dwarven relics.

Hell, the vigil in bloodtide coast has a squad that goes into a risen infested dredge town/mine, purely to try to find survivors and help them.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

From a technical view is the body cutted into several part which are well spread across the fighting area. The rest was shot down with cannons which caused even more destruction of the body. A whole lot of a mess which is quite hard to fix and with the mass of material lost (we trade with parts of the body at the dungeon vendor) there won’t be enough left to make him a huge threat for a long time (aside from speculation if he could be revived/reused or not).

The rest of his body was mostly intact, but it did land beneath the giant tower structure.

Also, I wouldn’t really go with dungeon tokens being hard canon… I think lugging around bits of zhaitan wouldn’t be that healthy…

Neilos Tyrhanos.5427:

Kalavier.1097:

Essentially, Stooperdale covered it. What do we see of the Dredge? raiders who will steal supplies (Gendarren fields). Attackers who will drive others away (Koden, Granite Citadel ruins, wayfarer foothills captured miners, etc). Destroy history based on racial hatred (a LOT of the times we see them fighting Priory, it’s because the dredge want to destroy EVERYTHING DWARVEN that the Priory has gathered or wants to gather)

As I said before, the actions of the Dredge leadership and military are inexcusable. I’ve not been arguing that.

But killing Dredge miners, who, as the Dev has clarified, just want to work— that’s not the same thing. That’s not to be glossed over, either.

And the dredge miners aren’t involved in the camp warfare that you explicitly drew the quote from. That’s purely military

Again, most of it goes toward stopping their invasion of areas. Stop their resources, they can’t advance. There are at least two events I can think of which literally boil down to that. The Dredge pop up in an area without warning, claim, or anything else, then start stripping the resources from it and you have to stop them. (The small forest that is used to rebuild the bridge in Snowden, and in the valley just north of the priory…)

Even then, the Dredge do it to others (As shown by their murdering a bunch of priory researchers, from a group that isn’t even CLOSE to a dredge held location…)

Not spoiler related, but in BC there is an Ash legion (near the Ashford gate) who stealths, sneaks up on a group of cubs and scares them :P.

Even then, there isn’t really hard facts pointing either way.

Eh, my opinion is his appearance and the artwork of the loading screen of Arah storymode definately strikes me as he was far greater/more normal looking at some point, who knows how long ago but eventually he turned into what he was when we fought him.

It’s my opinion on the matter, but once solid, confirmed details come out either way I’ll alter it to take that into account.

Sartharina.3542:

bullyrook.2165:

Rurik died for nothing.

Ebonhawke still stands, and now prospers thanks to a new alliance with the Charr. The descendents of the people of Ascalon are living in Gendarran Fields, and were safe until the Centaur arrived. Rurik didn’t die for “nothing”, even if the future he secured for his people wasn’t a return to the past they lost. The people and legacy still live on, and that’s what’s important.

Hell, the implication the one wiki article gave about a prince of Kryta was Ebonhawke and the Black Citadel was heading for peace on their own long before Kralk rose… until a Krytan prince butted in and played soldier (making the fields run red with blood).

Neilos… and what about the group of norn miners in Wayfarer foothills who are attacked and imprisoned by the dredge? The very ones who an event deals with escorting a norn back in (when the other miners WILL NOT) to RESCUE the captured ones.

Also, who says the Asura did nothing? What facts do you have to back that up? Maybe some Asura helped them out for a while, maybe others turned their backs.

There is a difference between seeing them as they act, and placing far too much sympathy toward them based off the words of a SINGLE PERSON. It’s rather an assumption to say that if the Priory just backed off, the Dredge would do nothing and would leave them alone. It’s a huge assumption to say if the Priory backed off, the Dredge wouldn’t follow on their heels destroying all they could find.

Essentially, Stooperdale covered it. What do we see of the Dredge? raiders who will steal supplies (Gendarren fields). Attackers who will drive others away (Koden, Granite Citadel ruins, wayfarer foothills captured miners, etc). Destroy history based on racial hatred (a LOT of the times we see them fighting Priory, it’s because the dredge want to destroy EVERYTHING DWARVEN that the Priory has gathered or wants to gather)

And enslaving their citizens? Sorrow’s Embrace, and one heart where you HELP DREDGE REBELS.

Yes, in post Sorrow’s Embrace dredge culture it might be nicer and more friendly, but it might not. They proved themselves (EXPLICITLY SO in the Norn storyline) to be a major threat, one to treat with caution and armed force then a wave and a glance over randomly.

Norn storyline they kidnapped and murdered vigil soldiers in weapon tests, they attacked a haven/priory base to steal a book of building plans (and if you do the vigil path, it’s implied/stated they murdered EVERY SINGLE PRIORY MEMBER at the place while doing so and you were investigating the missing vigil soldiers.), and then (using an icebrood/dragon magic enhanced sonic cannon) WENT AFTER THE PRIORY.

Why? To murder Odgen. That was it. That was the ONLY REASON. They were going to kill everybody in the Priory building (and surrounding area as the weapon attracted icebrood) simply to take out “The last oppressor”. Now I think you can find one or two dredge that take issue with the tactic, but that’s because using the weapon caused freaking ICEBROOD to swarm over the area, and less because it’s just a slaughter (IIRC).

Zhaitan’s obviously been beaten before bad enough to warrant fusing other dragons as patches onto this own body… and his general appearance (or the decay was that bad).

If people ask my honest opinion, I go with “Wait until Devs explicitly confirm it without a doubt, or we see the corpse firsthand in an ingame update/new area” :P.

I love how people basically kitten about games actually having storylines, decent characters, and relationships.

There obviously IS enough screentime and cutscene time to show this, because… well LOTS of games do so.

bullyrook.2165:

frans.8092:

Dustfinger.9510:

I see no reason that humanity needs to be on equal footing with the charr. There may be some nostalgia from GW1 but I think we can all agree that this is a different game with a completely different zeitgeist.

All playable races have to be on an equal footing. Having multiple playable races, including the Charr, is the exact reason why they invented a Foefire.

Frans has a point. If the devs were not aiming for equal footing then they wouldn’t have made the Sylvari (a race only 25 years old) as powerful as the other four. However, I think they might have overdone it a bit with humans. In the course of 250 years, they lost nearly all their land and the proud and noble culture of Ascalon (you know, the nation all gw1 prophecy players start out in) is reduced to little more than a memory.

Basicly: everything your hero did in GW1 to save your homeland amounted to nothing. The Charr still won. Correction: the Flame Legion won and then the other Charr Legions claimed victory over them. Same difference, in my eyes though.

Rurik died for nothing.

No, because once you entered Kryta you started a different fight. They NEVER said the war against the Charr was won or turning, infact you left because it was doing south.

Ascalon was not going to last, if not by being conquered by the charr, they’d die by eventual starvation and sickness.

Sylvari aren’t as powerful as other races… widespread, but hardly as powerful. They hold major presence in… two regions. And one region it’s also shared with Seraph and peacekeepers. Otherwise they have ONE zone that is “theirs” Compare to Norn, Charr, or humans… the different is bigger. Likewise the Asura only have one zone truly under their control.

In the 250 years, a nation turned isolationist (not that odd, seeing the Ministry of purity)… another conquered by an ancient threat WE unleashed (not that odd either).

Ascalon finally died out besides one fort and the settlement, and Kryta rebuilt itself into a decent nation, although it’s besieged by centaurs.

Prophecies stopped being about “saving your homeland” the moment Rurik was banished from Ascalon after Rin was destroyed.

Hell, this is like saying EVERYTHING we did in Nightfall is for nothing because Joko conquered the lands of Elonia… many, many years later.

Norn being kittens and starting a fight isn’t new. Again, in their culture, a threat may be described as hunting, as seen by some Norn fighting undead and calling it a hunt, or centaurs, etc.

But the dredge are still xenophobic and teaching their children to hate all outsiders, and are still openly hostile to Non-norn people.

The other races? Dredge would’ve encountered humans and Dwarves.. maybe a rare charr or Norn. None of the Asura or Sylvari. Besides, we don’t know if they actually did more or stood by.

draxynnic.3719:

There’s a certain degree of ‘opinions expressed by one magister may not reflect Priory policy’ here. Maybe Penelope has lost so many of her comrades in the fighting that she’s not inclined to be gentle. Maybe she’s tired of people sympathising with the poor widdle dredge that have killed so many people and destroyed so much knowledge. Maybe she’s just not a very nice person.

The key might be, though, that there’s a clause missing, and what she means is something like “if they want exclusive use of the land, they have to fight for it like the rest of us”. The races and factions that get on well with one another have fairly open borders, allowing other races to travel through their territory and even settle in unclaimed regions. The dredge don’t do that – their xenophobia pushes them to drive everyone out.

This could be very true, as other Priory members don’t seem that extreme anyway. Hell, it could simply be partly “Knowledge to use against the dragons!” and partly “We DO NOT WANT this knowledge and historical artifacts destroyed.”

Neilos Tyrhanos.5427:

Neither do the Priory, or the Norn, or countless other species. It’s not the place of the Priory to decide where another species is allowed to live; especially when many such settlements aren’t taken from anybody else.

Um what? The other races live primarily above ground. This would be true if they were violently expanding UNDERGROUND, but they aren’t.

This is affording the benefit of the doubt to one side, and not the other.

I’ll explain this later on.

I think they may have accepted it if they were given any reason to see other species as their allies. Those allies, in the past, stood by while the Dredge were enslaved; there’s nothing in-game that suggests the surface species adopted a more cordial approach at any point.

Actually, humans and deldrimor dwarves fought and killed the stone summit. When the Dredge were in trouble, the player character/hero of GW1 helped them . In Factions, you took out a hostile leader, helping a nicer one come to power. In prophecies Sorrow’s Furnace. In EOTN a DREDGE comes to you about his brethen being enslaved and you rescue them… hell in Sorrow’s Embrace in the miner path…

Rasolov: I don’t know if the rebellion will spread, but today my friends will be treated fairly. I was raised to hate outsiders and believe that our leaders care for us.
Rasolov: And yet Shukov was ready to put us in chains, just as the dwarves once did. And today a group of outsiders helped me stop Shukov. Remarkable!

We explicitly get told they raise their young to hate all outsides and NEVER trust them.

Certainly— but that’s not the reasoning on display in the quote, which speaks of making them fight for any land they want (which isn’t taken from any other occupying species, in many cases). It’s also not a great defence of the practise of conquering bases that aren’t dig-sites.

As said, the words of a single person do not have to mean the viewpoint of the entire order.

Also, the Dredge use those bases as means to DIRECTLY assault local areas such as the fort/monastery nearby.

wouw.5837:

Dredge have always been looked upon as less worthy and driven into xenophobia by their constant rejection, They could be a powerful ally, given the chance ( We know they can make alliances ). I remember a blogpost about the Dredge talking about how the Norn just hunted the dredge for sport, they didn’t use the meat or the skin, they just killed them because they could.

A few Dredge allied with the inquest to gain power, and IIRC, planned to swarm over the surface and basically put “everybody else in their place” or kill them.

Some Norn may have hunted the Dredge, but what a handful do don’t mean the rest would do it. Hell, I’ve seen Norn NPCS ingame describe local threats as “hunting”. Such as Centaurs attacking Ascalon Settlement or the undead in the swamp (First Haven). It’s their nature… As a hunter based society/origins, going out and taking out a threat may simply be called “hunting” just as easily as going to get meat.

Oh right. I forgot about the haven in metrica… because my asura I was leveling there isn’t close to it :P.

I was actually talking about stoneguard gate, which I just checked ingame and it’s a Seraph fort (like a level 1 WvW tower walls, where most havens are like level 2 walls aka stone walls compared to reinforced wood).

Again, Dredge live almost entirely underground. Why do they need to have equal amounts of land above and belowground?

They are an underground race. They don’t NEED surface cities. Saying they “the same right to land and living space” is okay… until you hit the point of “But they already have underground cities, mines, and tunnels… alongside some surface settlements around the tunnel exits… do they REALLY need extensive above ground holdings?”

The priory is acting off of… a long period of interacting. The Dredge showed themselves to be a xenophobic, hostile race that are interested in killing others instead of trading, destroying relics and knowledge of the Dwarves instead of simply letting the Priory take them…

Hell, the Granite citadel is kinda away from the fighting there, yet the Dredge charge in and attempt to slaughter the Norn and priory camp there basically unprovoked…

Neilos Tyrhanos.5427:

Kalavier.1097:

Dredge live mostly underground…. so them constantly expanding on the surface is actually taking lands from others… every city/major place of the dredge is underground so really they don’t NEED to be taking surface formations bar the occasional surface exit to a city. There is a difference between “living space.” and “Charging into ruins and killing most on sight.” Or like them raiding the one haven and stealing all the supplies from it :P.

Taking the land from whom? The Norn are only recent arrivals this far south in the Shiverpeaks, too. The land was only owned long-term by the Dwarves, really.

Charging into ruins is one thing; it’s wrong of the Dredge to do so. But conquering land that was never anybody but the Dredge’s is wrong of the Priory, too.

Essentially, I’m saying that Penelope’s dialogue shows a rather uncompromisingly aggressive stance on the behalf of the perceived good guys, which leads me to see the whole situation as less than clear-cut. When the PC asks, she does not defend the practise on moral terms. She simply says they will make the Dredge fight for land.

And again, they are obviously aggressive toward ALL non-dredge people. They attack the Kodan extensively in Frostgorge for example.

The dredge clearly aren’t fighting to get enough land to comfortably support their population, as again they live mostly underground.

It varies with officer Seraph. Some use full protectors (t3) while others use Protectors chest/legs and other boots/gloves/shoulders.

Orma takes a few appearances, one is a quaggan.

I’m going with “Tequatl may be dead or defeated for a long while now.” Like Zhaitan may be dead or knocked out for a few thousand years (or shorter/longer).

At the same time, because how other Risen are described as acting, I wouldn’t be surprised if he kept coming back or others appeared again. I believe in the old “Find the corpse and confirm the death!” method of dealing with undead.

Dredge live mostly underground…. so them constantly expanding on the surface is actually taking lands from others… every city/major place of the dredge is underground so really they don’t NEED to be taking surface formations bar the occasional surface exit to a city. There is a difference between “living space.” and “Charging into ruins and killing most on sight.” Or like them raiding the one haven and stealing all the supplies from it :P.

TriggerSad.2597:

Kalavier.1097:

Captain’s council controls the city of LA and the havens, and that’s about it.

Also if anyone hasn’t noticed this, there aren’t any havens near Divinty’s Reach, and the only times you see any in Krytan territory are when they are far from the city on trade routes that lead to the other nations. You see plenty in the Maguuma, but they stop short of what could be the border of each capital city’s outskirts. Still within their land, but far from any real signs of civilization (if you were to look at it from an in-game standard). Additionally, you only find one haven in charr territory, and that one could be seen as being on norn territory instead, so it could be that the charr aren’t comfortable with the Lion’s Counsel setting a military installation within their borders. Though it could also just be because of where the trade routes were set up.

Havens mostly are in Shiverpeaks, and the edge of Krytan heading into the Maguuma Jungle/tarnished coast.

Likely more a placement of which roads actually go through dangerous land, as there are no havens in Metrica province actually.

Charr trade lanes would be on the west side of Ascalon, which is also among their most secure lands so they could guard caravans up to the shiverpeaks.

Shiverpeaks are dangerous from Sons, wildlife, Icebrood, and dredge, so that’s likely why we see the most in the Snowden drifts, northern Lornar’s Pass, and Wayfarer foothills. Also likely where the major trade routes would be going through (I don’t recall any in Dredgehaunt hills or Timberline).

In Kryta you have them in Gendarren fields, Kessex hills, and… that’s it really I think. None in Queensdale (I forget if the fort at the Gendarren fields -Queensdale portal is Seraph or lionguard…) Though they were constructing two havens in Caledon forest, one fairly close to the Grove, besides the Norn that’s the closest they get to a capital.

But yeah, upkeep would be one factor, actual danger of the merchant lanes another (I believe lionguard/LA had a deal with Centaurs to have the havens left alone by their raids…) If the local army keeps it safe, Haven isn’t needed. obviously the Norn have no true army formation so.. :P

I think only Charr and humans would have ‘hard’ borders, the rest I don’t think so… Well, besides the Tengu obviously.

Yeah. I ran into her once in brisbane recently… didn’t get turned into an animal though for the achievement so that such.

Also the fact there is a good chunk of Dredge who basically expand and go to Dwarven sites PURELY to destroy the relics and knowledge left within.

Leveled to the ground? Besides the flooding (which isn’t there fault as it was before there time)… what other times has LA been leveled?