Reduce energy cost on some skills, add condi cleanse on Shield to make it useful (and add some condi cleanse at the same time), make Unrelenting Assault in PvE the way it was before it got nerfed because of PvP.
I agree with the suggestions in the first post.
For Renegade:
remove energy cost from F-skills (so that other legends are not disrupted by skills that have huge energy costs AND cooldowns for some reason).
remove break stun from healing and put it somewhere else.
give 2 stacks of stability to phantasms and make them invulnerable. Also rework the energy costs on Kalla and remove CDs.
envoy of exuberance doesnt have to get nerfed in its healing. Its already low. Shield is mostly useless. Adding a cleansing is a needed thing to get it useable.
And Staff 2 needs faster casting.
Agreed. However if they want to reduce the healing on that, they can increase it on Shield 5, so that the rooting makes sense.
To answer the thread, Herald is not a pre-requisite for Renegade, since Renegade is not an upgrade to Herald. At the moment Herald is vastly superior to Renegade (except maybe PvE condi damage), by uses and design.
If you want to play Revenant, I suggest you unlock both, giving priority to Herald if things stay the way they were during the beta weekend.
took me like 2 months to complete my main spec in HoT, but then I unlocked all my other 10 characters specs in a single month.
Took me 1 hour to unlock full Elite Spec on my previous main (Guardian) and my newly made Revenant, without using WvW. 20 Hero points were not hard to make at all when HoT launched.
Yeah, I remember that.
Probably the reason we have Kalla now is tha post about not having enough female legends. #genderequality
If you really want to get technical, there isn’t gender equality because they made Kalla and her warband exterior killable/fearable manifestations as opposed to the other spirits that operate as an integral part of us and guide our movements. I’d have preferred a new spirit to have manifested internally the same as the others, otherwise I’d have rolled a pre-PoF ranger…
That was one of my arguments against the spirit summoning.
I agree of course, Revenant channels legends, and Kalla never had the ability to summon a magic warband, so why should we?
Their new strategy seems to be “don’t comment, only deliver” and I can’t entirely blame them. Any dev commenting on this forum right now would get their face chewed off instantly and that’s got to be an unpleasant experience coming off of months of work trying to make something that will make the players happy…!
I doubt. This forum is usually polite.
A sign that comments are being read would be appreciated and welcomed with constructive comments.
About “months of work”, well, that’s probably on other specs. For Renegade it feels more like “weeks of work” given that we didn’t even get 1 new underwater skill, while Weaver got 65 new skills, similar to Soulbeast and Firebrand.
Yes, that’s the correct number: Weaver got 65 new skills, and they didn’t skip underwater ones.
Anyway, I’m still planning to take my Revenant into PoF first, with the full set of Viper gear I made ready for the occasion. If it’s un-fun though, I’m preparing some gear for my engineer too and I’ll go Holosmith.
That won’t be answered.
There is still time to fix stuff, about 20 days. But if this thread is simply ignored until release, I doubt things will be fixed.
I’d like Power Renegade to be a thing to be honest, however I’d first want Renegade itself to be a thing.
At the moment it’s probably the worst Elite spec ever made, according to all the polls I’ve seen at least, and it doesn’t even have underwater combat (again).
The best thing would be to just redo it completely, but it would be great to justhave its main issues (killable summons) and bugs fixed, the stunbreak moved, and overall core Revenant buffed.
The main reason for all the Revenant nerfs (PvP) is no longer an issues, so most of the nerfs should be revoked now.
An expected result even from the WoodenPotatoes Strawpoll: http://www.strawpoll.me/13820403/r
His commentary is also on point, remarking the huge amount of underwater skills for Soulbeast, Weaver, and Firebrand, and still 2/6 legends for Revenant and no Elite Legend (despite Glint being very easy to adapt).
He just does not seem to understand how bad it is to heave stunbreak on healing, meaning that you can heal or stunbreak, with the “or” being exclusive.
Viper or Valkyrie. The ideal would be Power, Ferocity, Condition Damage, but it doesn’t exist.
Not yet but soon. One of the PoF reveals was a new 4 stat gear set called grieving. Power and Condition damage as the major stats, precision and ferocity as medium stat.
Yes, that’s close, but precision is kinda useless. Expertise would be better.
Condi Rev works better vs burn Guardians, Necros and Eles, because they are mostly short range fighters that can fight you while swimming inside their own pool of condis, and your ability to pressure them at range is small, so the Mallyx reistance can be crucial.
It’s not going to be true soon. Guardians are getting the ability to output huge condi damage from range, Necros will get huge boonrip, boon conversion and condi output with Scourge (goodbye Resistance).
Just posting to say I highly disagree with this idea. The class is fine as it is right now. It’s useful in every. single. game mode. at the moment even if it’s not used for most speedclears.
The profession plays fine and energy management as it is now is fine. It requires a patient and precise playstyle that takes a lot to master and that is totally fine. If rev doesn’t work for you guys mechanically, find a class that does.
As a rev main I don’t want the class to become overpowered again and then suffer another 2 years of nerfs. It’s already top tier in pvp and wvw when played expertly and that caused a lot of heartache for pve revs. Removing energy costs on weapon skills will cause way more issues than it will solve. And same with adding a way to get more energy.
To quote a great man: you’re not thinking fourth dimensionally.
PoF specs will completely outclass and counter Revenant in every game mode and Renegade is not enough to make up for that.
Maybe Revenant as it was before 2 years of nerf would have been decent in PoF too.
To me is core Revenant that needs buffs. Do it and both Herald and Renegade will be decent.
Of course, Kalla has A LOT of other problems that should be addressed independently. Mainly energy costs and the healing skill.
And you aren’t even considering the whole boonrip and condi meta that is coming in PoF. Revenant as a whole will be out of the game, not only Renegade.
what’s the reason for 40 energy on F3?
Seriously, I do that, then what? AA until I can do 1 more skill?
Also why even energy in the firts place since it has CD?
And it doesn’t even do good damage to be honest. It’s way weaker compared to Deadeye’s 1hit-kill and has a way higher cost.
U3 – Icerazor’s Ire: has a good synergy with the Razorclaw no icd bug (it can apply 20 stack of bleed with the bug), but without that bug this skill is too weak, i saw a lot of ppl asking to change the cripple for Chill, but it can be op with the Abyssal Chill trait (20 stack of torment)
That would completely justify the huge energy cost PLUS the cooldown.
You are right Kidel, but why should spam swap legend everytime CD is on, to gain energy.Besides, we have utilities and weps skills with energy requirement.I play with condi rev, and i mostly spam auto-attack and skill #2 and them swap on Jalis for hammers, change Mallyx for elite and so so so on.
With Renegade, i guess we will camp Kalla then Mallyx and back and forth.
Roy probably initially designed Revenant’s main mechanic with the intent of making it mandatory to use, as every other class mechanic.
That’s why he insisted on Weapon skills having energy cost (even when confronted many times on the matter).
While I agree on the principle, in the substance we need to have lower energy consumption. This way you’re still forced to swap, but weaponskills consume way less energy (like 1-5).
If they wish to keep energy on weaponskills to avoid legend camping, I can understand it, but weaponskills already have CD, so they should not contribute to our energy depletion as much as Utility skills do.
But he’s right. Every experienced Rev, every guide, every DPS rotation, every math you can do: you must swap legend on CD.
It’s the most efficient way to generate energy. Of course it’s better than staying in 1 legend doing absolutely nothing until your energy recharges. It’s a no brainer.
That being said, energy costs are too high. It’s absurd to see 30-40 energy cost on skills when you start with 50.
If I’m supposed to camp Kalla to do more than 2 skills, it means that all our dps and skill output is damaged in comparison to Herald.
As title says. Renegade already has a very difficult (if not impossible) Energy management on Kalla.
Removing Energy cost from Renegade F-Skills will not only benefit Kalla, but also the energy management of core Legends, that would be disrupted by the Renegade F-Skills.
Herald got nerfed because core Revenant got nerfed for 2 years straight, mainly for PvP reasons. Now that we have pvp-pve split, the nerfs have no reason to exist and should be reverted.
The problem is not really Renegade, aside from the terrible energy costs, but core Revenant. It now needs a buff and condi cleanse.
No. Renegade is definitely a problem and for many of us for completely different reasons to those.
I think the energy costs are fine. It’s the cooldowns I want to see go.
The energy costs on Renegade are not fine at all.
You can basically do just 1 utility and 1 F-skill after swap, and that’s all until you can double swap again.
It’s terrible.
I think they should completely remove energy cost from F-skills and reduce the costs on utility skills. Also, yeah, cooldowns don’t go with energy, I agree on that, and stunbreak on heal is terrible.
And please don’t misunderstand me, I basically hate the Renegade, but fixing it won’t solve most of the problem that core Revenant will have in PoF with the condi craze and the boonrips. Basically Mallyx is indirectly nerfed, as well as Glint, since there is a lot more boon corruption around. And since every new spec outputs like 4 conditions on every skill, our 2 condi cleanse on Jalis is garbage.
The problem is not only Renegade, but core Revenant itself. It now needs a damage buff and condi cleanse.
And please don’t misunderstand me, Renegade is terrible indeed (stun break on heal, huge energy costs, F-skills with also huge energy costs going to mess with all legends, cooldowns on all skills and so on), but fixing it won’t solve most of the problem that core Revenant will have in PoF with the condi craze and the boonrips. Basically Mallyx is indirectly nerfed, as well as Glint, since there is a lot more boon corruption around. And since every new spec outputs like 4 conditions on every skill, our 2 condi cleanse on Jalis is garbage.
Rev was never overpowered in PVE that’s for sure. They were wanted in the beginning for Natural Resonance, but after that got nerfed and they didn’t get buffed in any other way to compensate revs just disappeared from raids. Now you don’t really see them outside Deimos. Power rev is crap and while condi rev is definitely better now, there are still much better condi classes to bring over a rev. Renegade is supposed to fix this, but who knows. I am annoyed that they never reverted any of those nerfs they gave us because of pvp. With skill splitting there is no reason to not reverse those nerfs, especially with power rev being in such a bad place now.
I was talking about PvP. Apparently many people complained about Revenant being “impossible to counter” a lot of time ago, when Sword-3 was still good.
They were too loud and Rev got nerfed.
Scourge will just go full condi dude. It can still support fine with small barriers, boonrip, condi cleanse, condi conversion and so on, then basically output more condi dps than base Necromancer, A LOT more.
The problem with Mallyx is that it won’t work anymore in PoF, since they have given tons of boonrip, condi cleanse and condi creep to all the specs except Revenant.
5. ~Please~ consider pve and pvp/wvw skill split when balancing.
Seconding this.
The fact that only PvP was taken into consideration led to 2 years of nerfs for the Revenant. And now that we have pvp split Revenant skills are still nerfed, meaning that we have drawbacks like energy and condition weakness, but no real gains.
Also Revenant is basically cut out from PoF pvp meta (condi + boonrip, goodbye Herald and Mallyx), so at least make it strong as it was in PvE.
And…
Please consider adding “Build Swap” As you said a long time ago
Revenant USED TO BE overpowered in the right hands, when sword3 did 7 hits at 20% more damage, Shield5 used to heal 4000 HP, Vengeful Hammers was 300 range and so on. That’s why we overlooked the crap like “condi weakness”. But since the “right hands” seemed to become more and more frequent, they nerfed it for 2 years, mainly because of pvp. Now if you’re good you’re decent, but not OP.
Still it won’t have place in the condi meta that is going to be in PoF. Scourge and Spellbreaker will just remove Resistance and give us 5-6 conditions we can’t hope to cleanse. Maybe Renegade will find a place in buffing the condi dps of the others in PvE and in trying to survive thanks to external condi cleanse. In pvp and wvw it won’t be viable. Maybe not even the Herald will be.
And of course avoid water my child, since you’ll just have Shiro and Mallyx for some reason (with Mallyx having the same number of ground targeted skills as Jalis and Glint, meh)
Revenant USED TO BE overpowered in the right hands, when sword3 did 7 hits at 20% more damage, Shield5 used to heal 4000 HP, Vengeful Hammers was 300 range and so on. That’s why we overlooked the crap like “condi weakness”. But since the “right hands” seemed to become more and more frequent, they nerfed it for 2 years, mainly because of pvp. Now if you’re good you’re decent, but not OP.
Still it won’t have place in the condi meta that is going to be in PoF. Scourge and Spellbreaker will just remove Resistance and give us 5-6 conditions we can’t hope to cleanse. Maybe Renegade will find a place in buffing the condi dps of the others in PvE and in trying to survive thanks to external condi cleanse. In pvp and wvw it won’t be viable. Maybe not even the Herald will be.
Many of you are not factoring the huge condi madness of the other classes. Maybe Renegade will have a small role in increasing the condi dps of other classes in low geared groups.
Go see all the procs that Scourge gets in every skill. It’s so synergic with core Necro. Not to mention barrier, boonrip, cleansing and so on. It’s basically Ventari+Mallyx+Kalla on its own.
Rebagade could be maybe viable in an HoT over scenario, but given the other specs, it will be forgotten quickly
The offhealer + condi damage + boonrip role will be taken by Scourges.
The damage output of that elite spec is probably way higher, not to mention the support, that with barriers is kinda unique. Sand shades are also easier to manage compared to the tablet.
That elite spec is simply synergic with the core profession, so you can proceed a lot of stuff. Renegade is not. We have bleeding instead of torment and no chill. Come on…
If you look at all the class forums besides engi right now since their op you will notice people only whining and crying. This is because the only people on the forums are the ones that didn’t like their specs and the others are happily playing the demo.
The hard truth on Revenant or Renegade elite spec in general is that its 100% useless in pvp/wvw but will be a nice upgrade in pve to the current condi build and I can see it becoming very meta in raids.
I would like to inform you that Revenant is not the only class suffering from this design choice as warriors new spellbreaker is looking to be amazing in pvp/wvw but will never be taken for anything besides solo open world roaming in pve etc etc. Hope that helped
That’s not completely true. Every class has some whiners, but many people like overall almost every spec. Scourge is not perfect but has great design and condi damage and boonrip, Spellbreaker is godly for pvp, Ranger has basically been upgraded, Holosmith and Firebrand are OP, and Elementalists are only nitpicking at 2/40 skills and attunent management. Also all of them have GREAT animations and design.
This subforum has many experienced Revenants and none of them is happy with Renegade. It’s simply bad design, functionality, usage and looks.
And if you look at all the polls, Rebagade is the most disliked spec
