Guild Wars 2

Stun break on healing is a terrible idea

Zanobi.1608:

Crystal Hibernation (Shield 5) Remove 1 condition per pule (4 pulses = 4 conditions removed)

Versed In Stone: Changed functionality – Using Right of the Great Dwarf removes 3 conditions. This skill no longer reduces damage on incoming conditions. (condition damage reduction for conditions made baseline or removed all together)

I very much second this. Shield5 is terribile after all the nerfs. Should not root at least, since the reason for rooting was the good healing that is not there anymore

What are you talking about? Guardian has tons of burning underwater.

Scourge completely destroys any Revenant build, expecially Mallyx and Glint, since Punishment skills will convert any boon into 2 conditions that we can’t cleanse (or resist, since that boon is gone).
Similar things happen with Spellbreaker. Basically even core Revenant was indirectly nerfed.

dragonkain.3984:

Lets start from the most underpowered spec of this expansion, which is…

• Soulbeast.

Do you realize that if we trade something like a ranger pet, we should get something more powerful in return to justify losing that useful pet?

Seriously, no. The soulbeast is very strong at the moment, and by absorbing the pet you get free stat bonuses. Also you’re not forced to keep the pet absorbed. It’s an additional mechanic. You keep your pet out until it’s low on hp or you need dps bursts.

With 30 days until the expansion I seriously doubt they’ll be able to fix the Renegade. The other elite specs still have hopes since they need minor adjustments, but the Renegade, between the thematic errors, the naming errors, the bugs and the complete unusability of Kalla’s skills, basically should be redone from scratch to work.

A quick way around could be to remove the charrs and the hp bars from the skills and to remove some nerfs on core Revenants. Having 1 more undewater legend, Jalis at least, would be nice too.
Also lower energy costs for Kalla and no cooldowns.
Another quick fix would be to double the condi cleanses from traits and Jalis, move the break stun for Kalla to any of the utility skills and add 2000 healing to the healing skill, without having to stand in the circle. I get that we have 2 healing skills so they should be somehow weaker, but come on, weaker should not mean useless.

And given that you nerfed the healing, Shield-5 should not root anymore.

Can I also point out that many of the nerfs on Revenant were made because “it was too strong in PvP” before the PvP-PvE split existed?
Some of them make no sense right now. Not only for PvE of course, but also for PvP, given that most of the new specs are way stronger.

And, again and again, seriously, 40+ skills for Weaver, 20+ skills and AMAZING animations for Firebrand, and still no time for 2 underwater skills for Jalis and Glint. Come on. It seems that you’re making fun of us with the dancing charrs.

LucianTheAngelic.7054:

The amount of damage the elite on Kalla potentially adds is literally insane. It will be 100% fine in pve raids.

Nah, they’ll invite Firebrand or Holosmith, since they just have way more condi dps and far more support and survivability. Or Elementalist, that’s still probably the best class if they nerf Holosmith as they should.

Turrets have no energy cost and the healing from turrets is actually good. Plus they get utility belt skills that usually compensate for that.
Engi can spam 4-7 turrets in 1 second and also get them back to reduce CD. We can basically use 1 warband mamber and we have barely any Energy left for a second one only if we AA all the time.

But they have conjured weapons for that, as it was stated many times by the devs.

Initially the Revenant was very strong, so they added the condition drawback. Now after 2 years of nerfs and the condi output of basically every class, it makes no sense anymore.

AddledAngel.5049:

Honestly I think the biggest issue with renegade is that Khala’s fervor is too easy to maintain, and it makes the spec boring.

That’s nowhere close to being “the biggest issue”

They could have just used the theme of the warband for the names and the effects of the skills. The animations with the dancing charrs make no sense.

Also the condi weakness on Revenant in this weekend was simply too much. The PvP/WvW meta seems to be revolving around huge condi outputs and stuns. Given the spellbreaker and the Scourge, the fact that Revenant has almost 0 cleanses makes no sense.

At the beginning Revenant used to be very strong (still remember the 7 hits on Sword-3?), so the fact that it was “weak to conditions” was somehow justified. After 2 years of nerfs the class doesn’t pop out anymore, but it’s still the weakest to conditions, making it borderline unusable against the new Elite specs in any player vs player format.

And having 2 minutes of cripple in PvE is not funny.

And about the dancing Charr animations, I get you want the “warband” theme around Kalla, but you could have just used the theme of the warband for the names and the effects of the skills. The animations with the dancing charrs make no sense, also because the revenant is supposed to CHANNEL spirits from the Mists, not summon them. We are not Necromancers.

Comprissent.3856:

No cones for Firebrand tome autos and mantras please

I know you wanted to make them ‘feel different’ from mesmer mantras, but its just completely awkward in pvp and wvw; especially the elite mantra where you just have to hope to get stunned facing your allies for cast to be effective? And the cones just dont hit stuff 90% of the time on slight slopes. Please change to PBAoe

Weaver – very fun, very undertuned

If anthing they’ve put a lot of work in Firebrand and Weaver. Weaver has more new skills than a core class has in total, and Firebrand animations are AMAZING.

Renegade has crap animations (at least for healing/utility/elite skills), it’s thematically wrong (not only the phantasm summons are strange for a Revenant, that doesn’t summon but CHANNELS, but “Fervor” and “from above” make no sense for Kalla that opposed to religion) and basically unusable in every game mode except PvE (without Kalla and ShortBow, just the traits are somewhat nice, even if they have no synergy with the core class).

Maybe they spent too much time into doing 40 skills for Weaver, including underwater, and had no time to even test the Renegade (given the bugs and the state it is for pvp and wvw) or doing 2 underwater skills for the core Revenant after 2 years of nerfs.

Again, Revenant was already coming from 2 years of nerfs. Seriously guys.
Just do those 2 underwater skills already, it’s a matter of principle. I get that Ventari is kind of impossible for underwater, but there is no excuse for Jalis and Glint.

ScottBroChill.3254:

we get the opportunity to switch from one set of useless utilities to another useless set of utilities.

The drawback for having 2 sets of ability is that we can’t change them or mix them. And also energy cost.

And by the way, the Elementalist can swap between 4 sets of utilities (now 16? with Weaver), yet they have TONS of condi cleanse, WAY MORE damage than us (without giving up cleanses), WAY MORE condi damage, more ranged damage, and more survivability, better in PvP (over-centralizing) and WvW.
So what’s their drawback for having 4 attunements?

I would remove the charr phantom completely. I mean Glint has Facets but we don’t see Glint’s spirit on every skill.

We can simply channel the warband from inside, BEING the warband. There is no need for external dancing phantoms with slow animations that nobody would see anyway because those kind of animations are disabled coming from other players.

Having the spirits do stuff for the Revenant makes no sense with the lore.

The tomes do it.

Herald was centered around the particular mechanic of the Revenant, with all skills being upkeeps draining Energy, our main resource.

Renegade with cds AND huge energy costs makes 0 sense.

It seems they made a thread in the general forum: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Feedback-Path-of-Fire-Elite-Specialization-Preview-August-18-20/first

cafard.8953:

Water transitions need work. Rangers were already losing all pet boons when getting into water, now the SB beast form drops and goes on cooldown (not sure why a cooldown is required either since the form is a sidegrade rather than a clear powerup). Beast form should be maintained above and below water, just flipping the beast skills between the equipped land/water pets.

Haven’t played with the other specs, but some of them might also have issues with water transitions.

Well Renegade skills don’t even work if the Renegade is standing in water.
Not to mention we have just 2/6 legends usable underwater for basically no reason. Seriously no time to adapt TWO skills, but 40+ new skills for the Weaver. Nice.

You noticed that the Firebrand can give Retaliation, Stability, Aegis and Protection with 1 skill, right? Not to mention all the other OP ones with basically no CD because they’re mantras.

Renegade is simply unusable in PvP and WvW. I doubt about PvE too (traits and bow may be decent, Kalla is not)

- No condi cleanse (how comes we have just 2 condi cleanses, including 1 from traits, when the current meta has you spammed with 10 conditions in 1 second?)
- Wells can be killed, feared, pulled out and so on…
- Stun break on healing, wtf… And the heal is not even decent
- No heal
- CD on skills with already HUGE energy cost (basically pop one and auto attack until legend swap). Herald was centered around the particular mechanic of the Revenant, with all skills being upkeeps draining Energy, our main resource. Kalla makes no sense for the class.
- No synergy with core Rev
- Worst animations for wells ever
- Nothing works underwater, even if water is low, you can’t target skills in there

Also, bravo, 40+ skills for Weaver, including underwater, and Revenant still has just 2/6 legends that are usable underwater , despite having just 1 ground targeted skill per legend.

And that’s not just my opinion. Check the Revenant forum here or this poll from Reddit: https://strawpoll.com/6k45px96

Basically is common opinion that Renegade is visually and functionally the WORST Elite Spec, including HoT and core classes.

After 2 years of nerfs for the Revenant we expected more.

You noticed that the Firebrand can give Retaliation, Stability, Aegis and Protection with 1 skill, right? Not to mention all the other OP ones with basically no CD because they’re mantras.
And can condi cleanse, again, with almost no CD, AUE and 3 conditions.
I mean, Revenant can maybe cleanse 3 Conditions every 30 seconds, and only if we equip Jalis and the trait from Invocation (so basically only on Power Herald).

People said they would pay for this function: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Please-add-a-build-swap-button/first#post6713735

And I would too.
You could make the build slot as an expansion from the trading post.

As suggested here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Please-add-a-build-swap-button

A “build swap” function to allow us from swapping between builds. This is required now more than ever because we have 2 Elite specs, with very different roles.

The best would be 2-3 buttons where we can store the current build (gear+traits) and we can then load when ooc.

If a “build swap” is too long to make, then just chat commands would be fine, like:
/equip [weapon name]
/trait <line-name xxx> <line-name xxx> <line-name xxx>
(es: /trait <devastation 123> <invocation 322> <herald 111>)

Gaile Gray.6029:

I wanted to be sure that you knew this this thread is still active and your input is welcome. This thread pertains to the PvE Preview, our first of two events. I’m now (since the preview is over) posting a PvP/WvW Preview feedback thread.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on either or both subjects!

There is already A TON of feedback in the class-specific forums.
Please check that out too if you’re not already doing it.

Somehow it was decided years ago that Revenant is supposed to be designed as “weak to conditions”.

And that’s currently a fact. We have 2 condi cleanses, 1 from a trait, the other one on a legend, and Resistance on Mallyx builds (that also needs to be traited).

So what do we get in return?
Are we the best supporters? Are we the best dps? Are we the the one jack of all trade class?

Because it seems to me that classes like Guardian, expecially with the Firebrand, can do way more damage (maybe Firebrand will be nerfed, but I doubt it), can cleanse and CONVERT tons of conditions, with almost no cooldown, in an area and so on.

Also the jack of all trade things doesn’t add up, since Elite specs, BY DESIGN, give classes things that they were not capable before (like support for Necros, condi damage for Guardian, and so on).

The huge weakness to conditions for Revenant basically prevents this class from being effective in PvP and WvW (also now there will be TONS of boonstrip from other elite specs, so gg), so the return should be huge, right?

A glass cannon is made of glass, but is at least a cannon.

Honestly with Firebrand dealing more condi damage and WAY more buffs (like constant Aegis with a mantra, constant quickness, a lot of might and so on) and heals, I don’t see how Renegade would be ever picked for Raid and Fractals.

Ayuruk.3980:

I hope this happens. It’s truly needed in this game!

I’m honestly surprised it wasn’t included by default with the second Elite spec.

SrebX.6498:

Revs gets so little love…

Agreed. They made 40+ skills for Weaver but are still unable to give us Jalis underwater because of 1 ground targeted skill. Same for Glint (there is simply no excuse since Facet of Nature already works underwater).

Seriuously, 40 skills for the Weaver (INCLUDING UNDERWATER) and you can’t do TWO for the Revenant?

You cant even use the new renegade skills in shallow water, the game thinks you are underwater and wont let you.

Not to mention 2 years of nerfs, Kalla’s legend is unusable in basically every game format. Just the trait are somehow usable in PvE and maybe 1 well from the legend, if it doesn’t get CC’s and you don’t need any heal (since the healing skill basically does nothing except a stun break… why on the healing skill, why?).

As we said in another thread, some skills are ground targeted, but:

Road (Inspiring Reinforcement) could just be pulsing stability around the casting point, no big deal.
For Glint, Elemental Blast is the only ground targeted one, and could simply be auto targeted at an enemy in range.

I don’t see why they can’t adapt 2, TWO, skills for the Revenant when they made more than 40 for the Weaver.

The class still needs to be completed after 2 years.

Road (Inspiring Reinforcement) could just be pulsing stability around the casting point, no big deal.
For Glint, Elemental Blast is the only ground targeted one, and could simply be auto targeted at an enemy in range.

I don’t see why they can’t adapt 2, TWO, skills for the Revenant when they made more than 40 for the Weaver.

the intentional “condi weakness” has to go, I agree.

about visuals, only shortbow and F3 look good to me. Wells/summons are basically charrs dancing in the air emitting random projectiles. Could be scrapped completely for just an area of effect.

The new Guardian elite spec has some amazing animations. Kalla’s skills are nothing in comparison. I’m sorry for whoever did them.

hypehype.9047:

you cant even use the new renegade skills in shallow water, the game thinks you are underwater and wont let you.

and now i find out in this post ele get 40 new water skills?
as kidel said it is a matter of principle.

no kittening way am i buying the expansion now.

I’m getting the expansion anyway since I’ll be using Herald in the Crystal Desert. That’s not the point.

The point is that people should stop justifying the complete absence of an underwater elite spec for Revenant (or simply the absence of half the core profession) saying that there is no underwater, when Elementalist got 40+ skills (ALSO underwater) and Guardian got around 25+ skills (ALSO underwater), and we still can’t get 5, lol.

And I’m still waiting for a reason why Glint and Jalis are not allowed underwater by default, since they basically have no ground-targeted skills, and Mallyx (with a ground targeted skill) and Facet of Nature work fine underwater.

Law.1704:

Rev feels sort of clunky and I couldn’t figure out why and I don’t just mean renegade which has its own issues.

Energy cost on everything as well as huge cooldowns feels weird, would it not make more sense to not have energy cost on weapon skills then the huge energy cost of the utilities would be fine since you are spending your resource how you want?

Don’t get the wrong idea. Revenant is NOT Renegade.

Revenant up until now has always been a pretty decent class, not perfect, but enjoyable and usable in basically every game format, with a particular idea behind.

Normal Revanant (and Herald) has just energy management to care about, and almost no cooldowns. This has been particularly used with Herald and Glint, allowing for a set of utility skills all with upkeep, meaning that are pulsing skills that you activate and drain your energy over time.

Herald is basically what Revenants is supposed to be to an extreme. It’s all energy based.

Renegade, on the other hand, is the complete opposite. Huge energy costs on useless skills with ALSO cooldowns for some reason. So even if you have good energy management you can’t use a skill if it’s on cooldown.

It seems like the Renegade class was made by somebody who knows nothing about Revenant and Herald.

Having energy management is not an issue. The HUGE energy cost on some skills is.

And Renegade utility skills are just the worst of the bunch, with HUGE energy costs and also cooldowns for some reason.

Renegade should have all the utility and healing completely remade. Animation sucks, energy cost sucks, cooldown sucks, break stun on healing sucks, healing itself sucks, HP bars and cc weakness on wells sucks.

Core Revenant should be buffed after 2 years of nerfs. Kalla should be redone entirely, then we can talk about buffing or nerfing.

The weekend is over, let’s see.

https://strawpoll.com/6k45px96

As expected.

Corax.7381:

We need SOMETHING. Whatever is easiest for ANet.

Well, yeah. Actually I really like the idea of commands like /equip X and /trait X. This way we can build macros

I simply won’t use Kalla, since it’s terrible, and stick to Jalis/Shiro or Jalis/Mallyx.

No double CD, solved.

messiah.1908:

Razorclaw’s Rage – enhance your attack by bleeding!? maybe try more.
seem it more for pve and not pvp and wvw.

As I said in another thread, that’s still to be seen. That healing alone and the fact that wells can be CC, or the simple fact that we still have no cleansing will make Kalla’s legend unusable in PvE, even just exploration.

We’ll maybe use Renegade and MAYBE use shortbow if bugs are fixed before 2 years, but Kalla’s skills are just terrible.

FranzM.1298:

The renegade AI skills do not work when standing in puddles. I was in Spirit Watch and when i ground targeted the puddles it said i could not use it underwater.

What’s the excuse for Jalis and Glint?

Are you using Kalla legend or Jalis+Shiro?

Because the latter would confirm the fact that Renegade has great traits, decent F skills and very bad healing/utility skills. Also nobody seems to like the bow.

So yeah, basically 33% of this elite spec is viable.

Not to mention Revenant is the only class that can’t use the MISTfire Wolf.
Funny enough, but I can understand why.

I do enjoy power Rev too, please don’t misunderstand. It’s the class I like the most. I was simply replying about underwater skills and Renegade.

Also what’s the reason for not having underwater Glint? There is just 1 ground targeted skill, all the others are fine already and could be used underwater with no modifications, just a permission change.

First beta weekend was great for me. The second one was a bit of a letdown. At the moment most of the elite specs are broken, being too strong or too weak. Renegade is borderline unusable in PvE and just completely unusable in PvP/WvW.

meanwhile Revenant has still 2/6 legends that work underwater and dancing puppets on wells for the 5 new skills.

Your premise is right, but given the fact that weaver just got 40+ new skills (including underwater) and most of the other new elite specs also work underwater (Scourge was patched in the latest update), the fact that the Revenant can only use 2/6 legends (so 2/6 sets of utility skills) is giving the idea that the class has been abandoned by the dev team for some reason.

We don’t really care about underwater combat itself, but it’s a matter of principle. How comes every other elite spec works? How comes that Ele and Guardian got 20-40 new skills that work underwater and have AMAZING animations (while we got dancing puppets)?

2 years of updates on Revenant were mostly nerfs instead of additions that were needed.

Yakez.7561:

warrior banners do work underwater, they ground based.

Many ground based skills work underwater. They just pop around the user in a sphere or around the target.