Guild Wars 2

Nice, 40 new skills for Weaver and no new underwater skill for Revenant/Renegade. Also luckluster animation for Renegade wells.

Justine.6351:

It’s been less than 2 days, on a weekend.

I’ve looked at the last 10 pages in this subforum and there is no dev post. I’m sure I could go on for many more pages, until HoT release.

Kodiak.3281:

cut

I see your point, but please understand that if your pve build basically only uses Renegade traits, avoiding weapon and skills, it means that traits are the only decent part of this spec for pve. Renegade as a whole is bad, and a bunch of traits are not on par with what other classes are getting

With legend swap being mandatory on cool down for energy management or for Condi cleanse and stun break, having that tied to weapon swap was a big limitation.
But I don’t really want to debate this.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Please-add-a-build-swap-button

you can already use services like Gw2Efficiency (or many others) for something like that. They use official APIs from ANet. And it’s also in real time, so there would be no difference.

If an UI option is too difficult, just allow us to do commands like “/equip [Fiery Dragon Sword]” and “/trait <Honor 212>”.

This way we can save macros on a keybord and manage them.

More condi cleanse on core Revenant. Period.
Even when equipping Jalis, our max cleanse is 3 conditions if we include the trait for legend swap.

I remember the days back when HoT was in beta. We had Roy listen and respond to almost every feedback, including great suggestions (like the smoke effect on dodge or the weaponswap independent from legend swap).

This silence from the Elite Spec team is terrifying. Can we have some feedback from the devs, that they are at least looking in our direction?

What if…
… there were no spirits?

Even in cosmetics. There is no need. The warband is “inside you”.

Also what if the healing was decent?
And what if they revert some of the nerfs we got in 2 years?

2 years of nerfs + the worst elite spec (Renegade) even including HoT.

Thz.7569:

Kidel.2057:

Ashamir.9574:

This feels like pure PvE spec atm.

Stop saying this. It’s terrible in PvE too.
- It basically has 0 use in exploration with no condi cleanse or mobility options. Even the stun break on heal is terrible.
- Phantasm-Wells can be destroyed or CC’d in PvE too. It’s not like they are immune from it in PvE.
- Renegade’s Condi DPS is ludicrous compared to what Holosmith, Firebrand, Weaver and Soulbeast can offer. Nobody, NOBODY would even look for a condi Revenant with those 4 monsters existing in the game.
- Energy cost is still crap.
- Shortbow is shorter range compared to Hammer and has no defensive options to compensate for it, while Hammer has a barrier for projectiles and life siphon.

How are you coming to the conclusion that Renegade condi dps is garbage? I can assure you you’re wrong. Condi revenant was already strong, Renegade trait line just flat out helps what’s already there.

32k DPS is nowhere near what the new elite specs are, and also pretty far from Tempest already.

And the new traits buff almost nothing about the core condi Revenant, but mainly affect the bleeding from the new skills.
Mallyx is based on Torment.

ScottBroChill.3254:

The one positive thing about the spirits is they’ll drag aggro and let you just rain hell down on enemies.

This won’t happen even during a Maguuma meta event. Mobs there are designed to still hit you among 50 players.

If you’re talking about 1v1 against a veteran, well that’s not the PvE content that a class should be designed for.

No need to even talk about fractals and raids.

Kodiak.3281:

Currently there’s a Condi build of Viper gear with Corruption/Devastation/Invocation with Mallyx/Jallis.

Kalla’s Trait Line allowing us to create 10%-20% additional condition damage and 300 Ferocity will likely be a straight upgrade to either Invocation or Herald even if you’re using Mace/Axe. Even then since most of our game play revolves around Mallyx Elite, swap, Jalis Hammers the bleed from a Geomancy sigil will likely benefit from the bleed based traits in there as well.

Kalla’s Legend is very questionable, but the ability to have 5 players trigger Bleeds for 10 seconds / 15 seconds (which take your condition stats) then immediately go into her Elite (which will proc Diabolic Inferno for more Burn) which will potentially add tremendous amounts of damage currently means that they could also be damage adds over Jalis with Hammers. The biggest issue with testing is that since these wells only benefit at maximum with 5 players utilizing them it’s hard to test even with a test dummy scenario.

Shortbow’s ability to pierce and bleed basically is going to match every other piercing, bleeding weapon for open world farm before it. Pistol Engineer comes to mind with their piercing. Big clumps of spawns can easily be farmed with the relative safety of range again benefiting a Condition focused player since Hammer already provided the same function for a Power focused player.

So, again, yes it is very PvE focused and PvE oriented for a Condition focused character.

If we don’t equip Kalla’s utility skills, but just the traits, it means that Renegade is flawed for PvE, as I’m saying.

If you just take Renegade for a couple of traits and maybe the shortbow, without using any of the skills, it just means that Renegade is bad for PvE. You’re admitting that those summons/wells are crap.

Also all the boons from Renegade traits don’t really affect Mallyx, that is based on Torment.

Many people are saying “it’s unusable in PvP and WvW, it’s a PvE spec”.

Let me get this straight: it’s terrible in PvE too.

- It basically has 0 use in exploration with no condi cleanse or mobility options. Even the stun break on heal is terrible.
- Phantasm-Wells can be destroyed or CC’d in PvE too. It’s not like they are immune from it in PvE.
- Renegade’s Condi DPS is ludicrous compared to what Holosmith, Firebrand, Weaver and Soulbeast can offer. Nobody, NOBODY would even look for a condi Revenant with those 4 monsters existing in the game.
- Energy cost is still crap.
- Shortbow is shorter range compared to Hammer and has no defensive options to compensate for it, while Hammer has a barrier for projectiles and life siphon.

I don’t see how people could even prefer Renegade to Herald in PvE, even after 2 years of nerfs on the Herald. And I’m talking for Fractal/Raid and exploration.

Ashamir.9574:

This feels like pure PvE spec atm.

Stop saying this. It’s terrible in PvE too.
- It basically has 0 use in exploration with no condi cleanse or mobility options. Even the stun break on heal is terrible.
- Phantasm-Wells can be destroyed or CC’d in PvE too. It’s not like they are immune from it in PvE.
- Renegade’s Condi DPS is ludicrous compared to what Holosmith, Firebrand, Weaver and Soulbeast can offer. Nobody, NOBODY would even look for a condi Revenant with those 4 monsters existing in the game.
- Energy cost is still crap.
- Shortbow is shorter range compared to Hammer and has no defensive options to compensate for it, while Hammer has a barrier for projectiles and life siphon.

They have to buff the other specs imo before considering nerfs. I mean, Guardian and Engi are probably going to be nerfed anyway, they’re completely bongus, but Renegade is objectively the worst Legend for Revenant, even compared to the core ones.

Since 2015 Revenant has only seen nerfs basically. Maybe a very small buff in the last patch, but it has been nerf after nerf for 2 years now. It went from an amazing class to something just usable.

Now with this crappy elite spec it’s going to fall even more behind.

lmaogg.7325:

Selfaron.4273:

I think people are saying that because elite and bleed buff spirit currently doesn’t have internal cd, but it’s a bug and they will fix it (tooltip clearly states they are supposed to have it).

still feels lackluster even with the bug tbh. If the bleed buff affects the other 2 of our “damaging” summons then it will be a different story. In the first place, why can’t our summons buff 1 another, isn’t the theme “warband”

With the energy cost you can’t summon more than 2 anyway.

Pino.5209:

I remembered back when i played Rift, it had commands you could type in chat that do the job. It wasn’t perfect, as the matter of fact it was far from perfect, but it was a life saver.
To think after close to 5 years, we don’t even have this feature in GW2 is an abomination imo.
This is one of those QoL update that should have been seriously looked into and considered.

Macro scripting would be fine too imo.
Probably even easy for them to make since they just have to expose some api with basically no UI at all.

FogLeg.9354:

Kidel.2057:

4 buttons (save 1/2, load 1/2) anywhere in the character UI would be enough,

Why exactly 2 builds? Each class is able to easily have 3-4 playable builds for different types of situations. If you already provide the build swapping feature there is no reason to limit number of builds you can save and load.

Because 2 > 0 and we have 2 elite specs.
Of course I could have asked for 10 build slots, but let’s begin with 2

Kodiak said it all.
The excessive weakness to conditions makes no sense in the current meta.
Jalis should heal 3 conditions and legend swap should heal 2. And I still think this would be not enough.

messiah.1908:

All for One – also Legendary Renegade abilities cleanse 1 condition – a must or we die

Something like that should be made core to be honest.

Honestly I even find the well animations lame. They don’t seem like fighting, but more like dancing holograms. And the fact that they can be CC after the huge energy cost is so lame and the projectiles are random.

I don’t even know how this elite spec could be fixed. It just feels like it has to be remade from scratch.

And base Rev without Herald is basically useless after all the nerfs. Also some of the reasons behind the initial nerfs are not there anymore.

- Vengeful Hammers: was given smaller radius because the hammers disappeared when hitting walls. Now they don’t do it anymore, still small radius.
- Crystal Hibernation: lock in position because it does huge heal. Now it doesn’t heal so much anymore, basically just blocks, like Sword-4, yet you are still rooted.
- Unrelenting Assault: was nerfed to uselessness because it was too strong in PvP. Now we have pvp-pve split. Could be reverted back to how it was just in PvE (7 hits, 20% more damage).

Also I don’t see why Shiro has still Quickness on Impossible Odds. It makes no sense in the current meta, dealing basically less damage compared to Vengeful Hammers in a party with perma Quickness. It should be +20% damage flat or double hits like in GW1.

And the fact that we have basically 0 condi heal and no way around it is completely crazy and we are basically forced to use Jalis in every build, even for exploration, to avoid being crippled for hours.

Keeping 100% Fury uptime is basically impossible ATM, or nowhere as easy as with Herald. Also you can basically use just 2 Wells before being forced to legend swap into something that has close to 0 Fury uptime.

Also Bow has way less damage than Hammer on power builds.

If you mean to take just the traits and use Hammer+Sword/* and Jalis+Shiro, in paper you have way less multipliers compared to Herald, that has more boobs and +2% damage for each boon. Plus party support, free toughness, usable stun break and so on.

Healingz R Us.7240:

Dude – worthless stun breaks, no stab, no condi clear – what is the thought process behind renegade even?

“Condi is Revenant’s weak spot, every class has a weak spot”.
In a nutshell.
And that’s kitten, of course. No class has weak spots except Revenant. Only builds have weak spots and trade offs.
Yet our only Condi cleanse comes from a mandatory trait and Jalis-6. And that’s 3 conditions total.

I still need to understand why they removed summons from Guardian a couple of weeks ago because summons were unusable, but decided to give them to Renegade, just to nerf Wells. Implying the huge energy cost wasn’t enough.

Buran.3796:

Renegade just doesn’t provide a reason to exist in PvP/WvW roaming. Weakest than core Rev, light years behind Herald.

It will probably suck in pve too. I get it probably has good condition damage, but lacks everything else. Break stun on heal and 0 Condi cleanse aside for trait on legend swap, you won’t even be able to explore a map without getting 3 hours of cripple you can’t heal.

We hoped those were just Wells with phantoms as decoration. Instead it’s just a summoning skill with even more requirements

After its release, Revenant got nerfed many times, basically every update was a nerf instead of a bugfix.
Jalis upkeep was fixed in the last patch, and it was broken from its initial release (I still remember the initial “fix”: a smaller radius in order to make hits with walls less likely). Sword-3 was nerfed 2 times before the PvP split because it was too strong in pvp, yet now that we have PvP separation, it’s still nerfed.

And now the Renegade. We got a nerfed version of Wells, with summons on top that can be killed or even CC, plus the break stun on the healing.

Is it just me or it seems that ANet does not like Revenant?

Allow me to add some constructive criticism.
- stun break should not be on healing skill.
- Wells should be Wells and not summons. You can keep the phantasm look if you want (I think it’s even more lame than the facet symbol of the Herald to be honest). Also please no “no valid path to target” on Wells.
- energy cost is WAY too high. You’re basically forced to pick 1 Well to use every time you swap.

Enjoy 3 hours of cripple you can’t remove.
Maybe with legend swap trait, but if you’re lucky enough to get just cripple and not bleeding too.

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Renegade is a PvE spec, get it in your heads.

The real problem is they didn’t allow us to test these specs in PvE. That was the real dumb decision they made

Implying the summons, the healing and the energy cost will be better in pve.
They’re probably going to be even worse.
This elite spec feels borderline unusable at the moment.

- Stun break on the heal makes 0 sense. You basically give up the break if you heal and vice versa.
- No condi cleanse again, implying you will need Jalis in pve if you don’t want 3 hours of cripple and be unable to even mount because you’re not out of combat.
- Basically 2 skills and then legend swap to use F3 with the second legend.
- Maybe, MAYBE, good condition damage on big stationary targets but not enough party support compared to other classes.
- Summons are still slow and killable even in pve. They even removed them from Guardian for the same reason and we have them now on an elite spec, lol.

Let’s just hope they don’t need Herald again to make Renegade appealing

He probably tested it on stationary golems. Those go down pretty easily from basically any class. Saying that Renegade is op at this stage is a ludicrous statement.

I dropped out from PvP as soon as I noticed that my Wells were scared by Fear. The class is basically unusable in PvP and wvw, and probably even in some pve content.

There was no need for the summons to be honest. They look bad and are a huge nerf to normal Wells.

It’s basically impossible to keep it 100% up, or even 50%, since the energy consumption of the skills is completely broken. Even if you just spam shortbow-1 and the elite (making no dps basically) you are still forced to swap to another legend to refill the energy.

You sound like someone who never used the Revenant and just looked at the tooltips without knowing anything about energy management.

Revenant skills always sound op on paper, but they have energy cost.
I can basically use just 2-3 renegade skills before being forced to swap, no even using the upkeep elite.

4 buttons (save 1/2, load 1/2) anywhere in the character UI would be enough,

Welcome to the club. That’s the same for Revenant since HoT and Herald.

Underwater we can only use 2 of our 6 legends, one of them being Mallyx, so basically useless if you didn’t trait and gear for condi.

You equip your full gear and traits. You press “save build 1”.
You change traits (even on trait) and/or gear (even one piece). You press “save build 2”.

Once you have saved them you can press “equip build 1” or “equip build 2”.

If a piece of gear is missing that’s simply not equipped and a message is shown in your chat like “Fiery Dragon Sword is missing from inventory”.
The problem we are trying to solve is that changing between builds is not only prone to errors, but also takes a lot of time and effort. A gear swap macro would make life a lot easier.

And it was kinda promised long ago.

I agree, the whole “conditions are Revenant’s weak spot” makes no sense when most classes have ways around every weak spot.

Cleansing Channel should at least heal 2 conditions since even base mobs apply 2 conditions, and that makes even pve exploration pretty hard considering the amount of cripple you get.

A second trait that allows condi cleans on heal would also allow us to avoig having Jalis on every build, since its heal is the only decent condi cleanse among every stance except Centaur.

The stun break on the Heal makes no sense, you’re basically forced to use your cd heal even at full hp to prevent losing more.

The wells cost A TON of energy and can even be killed or feared, making them WAY weaker then normal wells.

I don’t mind the shortbow being weaker than the Hammer to be honest, the Hammer is a power weapon while the shortbow is condi. It shouldn’t be better in any way.

Also Renegade is 100% different from Herald. Different legends, different traits, different gear. A “build swap” button would be much appreciated, since Herald is still useful for most of the content that is not “dps role in Raid”.

Energy costs are so high I can basically do 2-3 skills before being forced to swap legend. At least some are on Fx buttons, but they cost energy too.
This spec is SO different from Herald that I demand a “build swap” button.

You gain stat bonuses too, depending on the pet. 2 stats gain a huge boost comparable to runes or food (actually way stronger than food).
Also the pet thing is just the machanic change, the elite spec is mainly traits and skills.

And you’re not forced to fuse with the pet all the time, I think it’s meant to be a burst thing. Also if you do that when the pet is down, you basically get free damage.

what about the trait that resurrects with Shroud-4?

Yes, I said it too, and they kinda said they were working on it. The fact is that we need it now even more. I had no problem running Herald and Dragonhunter all day long. Those were basically “upgrades” to the core specs.

Now we have 2 alternative elite specs with very different uses.

I like mounts to be honest. They look great and will be a great way to explore without spamming swiftness and hearing “I can outrun a centaur” all day long.

Also that bunny jump will be great to compleat the map again.

After testing the Renegade and the other new specs, I can say that I like most of them, but I also like the ones from HoT (mainly the Herald), and the various Elite specs surely have a lot of different uses, by effect and by design.

Swapping from Renegade to Herald and vice versa would take a lot of time and effort, and, in the process, force us to choose what to run “permanently”. The 2 classes not only have different traits, but also different gear stats (and that’s not even helped by the legendary gear, since it takes even longer to swap stats on that), runes and so on.

A way to save 2 builds and swap them was hinted years ago, and would be impressively useful to fast swap gear, traits and skills.

Thank you Anet and keep it up. Everything about this expansion looks great so far.

That’s actually a really good idea.
I mean the crystals.

Why guides never use this trait? It looks pretty good to keep Might maxed.
Are the guides just not updated enough to include May 2017 update?

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Kidel.2057:

Glint should be core.

Ugh

Let me try

Glint should be core.

You need to add the client to gpu managed applications on laptop with ivi/sandy bridge intel cpu, otherwise the game simply uses the integrated chipset on the cpu instead of your dedicated gpu. It needs to be set as shown in those screenshots

obal.3218:

Scholar – Best choice for groups
Strength – Best choice for solo

Shouldn’t be the opposite?

Also Night runes do not work in raids. Worth a mention.

Thank you Anet for letting us kill him.

Terra.8571:

Kidel.2057:

Nice guide, but full berserker is not optimal since you go past 100% crit rate most of the time under permanent fury.

You can’t go past 90% without outside help or food/ infusions/ nourishment/ sigil with precision in them which will be a dps loss. The outside help requires both banners and spotter for 100%.

Optimal means the best for a given situation. In PvE, full dps is still best for fractals, dungeons and open world. Even in raids, I think full zerker will be the way because of how much damage a rev can do.

@Obal I’ve been running this build since HoT launched and the damage is really good. The toughness from upkeep though makes Rev’s really tanky for a full glass build. Have had little trouble in the jungle even though some of the mobs hit really hard.

Sea weed salad makes a noticeable difference to dps and I think will be the recommended food for raids. In raids, night sigils won;t work and frailty will be a waste with 10 ppl so am using Air on my axe (force on sword). Just wondering what your thoughts will be?

Sure, I said “optimal”, not max dps. At some point vit becomes more interesting then precision. It’s a little bit OT maybe, but I didn’t go against your statement

Grace of the land needs a nerf, not this. The aoe damage buff is too strong. And only requires 1 druid, making 2 druids useless.

Terimac.5871:

chrono can move n block with shield aswell. Their block is insane compared to ours, and warriors can move and reflect while blocking!

Heck remove the healing but allow us to move while blocking. Being an immobile healing rock for 3 sec sucks.

please do not remove the heal, lol. With the nerf on glint’s heal basically shield#5 is the only way to heal safely and consistently on power builds (shiro/glint).