Guild Wars 2

Arius.7031:

You added some to your post, I’ll reply to your additions here.

Gratz? But I probably won’t be the last to tell you that doing something for _ amount of time does not an expert make. Sure that means you understand the mechanics of the class, but you could be godawful at playing the toon and just have enough gumption to keep slamming your proverbial flat forehead into the wall over and over….."

True, but I brought it up specifically to say I understand the mechanics, nothing more. I wasn’t saying I was good, I was saying that I have enough experience with Mesmer that I know their weaknesses, not that I’m so good with Mesmer that I can beat them on any class or something.

Now I will not sit here and act like I enjoy fighting PU mesmers, but I lump them in with the P/D thieves, Hambow Warrs, etc of the world….Sure they take a little work to kill, but still VERY killable given the right setup.

P/D thieves I agree on vehemently. They’re just as bad, and in many ways worse than PU Mesmers (I still think overall PU Mesmer is worse, because at least P/D thieves wreck themselves if they’re reflected and are just very glassy in general, whereas PU is fairly tanky due to boon spam, defensive abilities, and higher HP of Mesmer). Saying that there are other imbalanced parts of this game does not combat the notion that PU Mesmers are also imbalanced. further, Hambow Warrs aren’t exactly great in duels/roaming anymore. Most builds can easily beat them due to the telegraphed nature of hammer attacks and the 1-trick-pony nature of LB (watch for the arcing arrow, stay out of the fire).

I defer my reply to the great Simonoly and his sage wisdom:

Simonoly.4352:

In the context of Mesmer build repertoire, PU is very very strong. Compared to shatter, lockdown and even traditional phantasm builds, PU builds are easy to master and are very effective (especially power variants).

However, compared to other classes and builds that exist in the game, the relative strength of PU is grossly over-exaggerated. PU condi Mesmers in particular are weak sauce compared to perplex Engis, S/S Warrior and P/D Thief. Condi PU Mesmer is so easy to ignore that its just kind of sad when they keep chasing you.

I will also add I would trade my PU and mesmer defensive line traits for my thieves defensive line traits….THEN THERE WOULD BE CRYING, of that I have no doubt.

Contiguous.1345:

Since when?

Afaik there haven’t been any changes to arrowcarts since they were buffed to insane range and power months ago.

Yeah I am lost…but then again I avoid all siege….so maybe someone will enlighten the both of us.

DevonCarver.5370:

I’d say there is a pretty strong sentiment against the idea of collapsing all of WvW into 3 colors, rather than the current world set up. Which I agree with. I think world pride and association is an important part of the way that WvW works currently.

Here’s a possible version of shorter matchups that wouldn’t necessarily sacrifice the long term fight of a WvW matchup currently and wouldn’t involve merging everyone into one of three teams.

Matches last 8 hours, there are 21 matches in a week with the same 3 worlds, the winner of the week is the world that wins the most matches over the course of that time.

This solves some of the problems we see currently, namely the issues that can arise as matches get out of hand towards the end of the week. However, it would still give worlds with better coverage a leg up on their opponents. It also loses the feeling that you’ve had a long term battle for victory.

I’m curious what you all think of that? Does it retain the feeling of victory in WvW right now and solve problems or does it just introduce more issues without solving any core concerns?

I honestly think this would be AWESOME, mainly because it would make people not even care about the score anymore and just go play. Kinda like EoTM.

Arius.7031:

1.

2.
-I hear you’re a good player, so I’m going to presume that’s true for a moment. Have you ever considered that you’re not just way better than everyone else

Every single day.

In all seriousness, the stuff I am saying is what was done to me while playing PU mesmer…And I was like: “WTF, that guy just wrecked me” or sometimes I would be able to stealth long enough to get my bearings and restart the engagement. Then I applied the same concepts while playing my other toons against PU mesmers, because IMO it was very effective.

Simonoly.4352:

In the context of Mesmer build repertoire, PU is very very strong. Compared to shatter, lockdown and even traditional phantasm builds, PU builds are easy to master and are very effective (especially power variants).

However, compared to other classes and builds that exist in the game, the relative strength of PU is grossly over-exaggerated. PU condi Mesmers in particular are weak sauce compared to perplex Engis, S/S Warrior and P/D Thief. Condi PU Mesmer is so easy to ignore its kind of sad when they keep chasing you.

Ugh…Words are hard…I should have just said this…This is really a great summation of the situation.

Well said, and 150% agreed.

Arius.7031:

1.
You’re demanding that people specifically build around fighting pu mesmers in order to counter them. A lot of builds do not incorporate much/any range/aoes. Further conditions are something you either do or do not have, a power class can’t just swap in conditions in order to beat a mesmer… you’ll do no damage. And most players are power builds.

2.
That helps but that takes some pressure off the enemy player, allowing him to dps you until you switch focus to him and then stealth away. You’re taking a situation where the PU mesmer basically sits there and does nothing while you kill his phantasms… But most pu mesmers either have strong condi or hybrid damage on their own beside their phantasms.

3.
So you’re arguing that we shouldn’t dislike PU mesmers because we can run away from them? Also, Mesmer has good burst movement capability (most mesmers use blink and sword thus giving them some decent mobility and ability to immob enemies). The only classes that are basically guaranteed to escape are wars/thieves.

4.
P.S. I’ve played a PU mesmer for hundreds of hours in solo roaming/havoc so don’t pretend that I’m just another person who couldn’t be bothered to learn how to fight PU mesmer.

1.
-not demanding anything just telling you what I have seen to be EZmode on winning. When you make your build, do you not contemplate at all what kind of enemies you might face whilst roaming???? Or do you just throw something together and then get mad when it doesn’t “PWN”? I also find it ironic you point out “not many people run this setup”, but then still think PU is overpowered I guess?
-Who does not incorporate any range or AoE? Bad players, or players who have forced themselves into rock/paper/scissors.
-No idea why you’re on about conditions here…I said range them to not pick up conditions…DID NOT say anything about using condi…Also ironic you think most people are power based.

2.
-Every class has some kind of damage output illustrating what types PU mesmers have doesn’t really make a point beyond “every class has some kind of damage output”…yes if you are full glass (IE: low survivability) you will probably die to a PU mesmer before you can kill the clones (AKA: Attrition) assuming you do not have the aforementioned skillset from point 1. If you have enough range/rangeAoE/burst AoE then you have a fine shot at killing the mesmer.

3.
-I frankly do not care what you like or dislike, I am saying that I would treat a PU mesmer I couldn’t beat the same I would treat a thief…I would walk away. I wouldn’t wait until I had 500 health and then run for my pixally life….Learn to judge a fight, learn to know when its winnable or not, make an exit strategy if you need to. Me personally I rarely run, but that is more because I like to see how things play out.

PS I like how you mold the Mesmer into which ever situation suits your argument. In one instance its condi dmg that is the prob, then in another the mesmer now has sword to immoblock you….

4.
Gratz? But I probably won’t be the last to tell you that doing something for _ amount of time does not an expert make. Sure that means you understand the mechanics of the class, but you could be godawful at playing the toon and just have enough gumption to keep slamming your proverbial flat forehead into the wall over and over…..

I would invite you to try something, the next time you are dueling some kid, and they start the “QQ PU NUB”, just flip the trait off. Then reduel. I promise you, if you are half decent at playing your toon the difference in the outcome will be negligible.

9/10’s the outcome was rock/paper/scissors to begin with and predetermined. PU is a crutch, its not a crutch for bad mesmers for the most part, it is a crutch for bad players to point a finger at when asked “why did you lose”.

Now I will not sit here and act like I enjoy fighting PU mesmers, but I lump them in with the P/D thieves, Hambow Warrs, etc of the world….Sure they take a little work to kill, but still VERY killable given the right setup.

Narsil.6579:

King Amadaeus.8619:

As someone who has one of each class (fully exotic geared minimum), and plays 7 of those 8 regularly (ugh rangers…), Mesmers just feel like they are closest to being “good” balance-wise of any class.

Warriors you mean warriors… Mesmer as a class is somewhat balanced, PvE we can come close to warriors and guardians in terms of damage and sustain, in pvp though, we got PU aside from that in 1v1 anything can work, but roaming or group play , even zerg play, our flaws start to show, I won’t say we aren’t able to be useful, but in terms of balance and usefulness, we do need some rework,

I do fine in roaming/group/or even zerg play. I don’t veilbot for people or portal their golems either.

WhiteRose.6934:

The problem for me personally Osicat, is that the build is a crutch. I’m going to sound kinda condescending here for a second but I used to have so much respect for you as a mesmer player. But seeing even you resorting to using such a crutch of a build is disheartening.

Let me define my reasoning if you will. The mesmer as a class is pretty complex. The way that illusions are tied to a target, how shatters work, the dependence on positioning and map awareness in order to survive; All staples of the mesmer class. Now look at PU in it’s current state, namely condi PU. The basis of the build is “stealth, dodge, stealth, dodge, block (scepter), stealth, dodge.” The issue is this breeds poor play. You don’t need to actively dodge attacks, because you always have aegis or protection. The players that this build has spawned embarrass me, and I find no guilt in putting them in their place in wvw.
Power PU is slightly better in the sense that they don’t have all the armor (as some build zerker to benefit the phantasms.) My point still stands that the passive nature still breeds poor play.

The mesmer isn’t meant to be this passive playstyle, and it certainly doesn’t deserve the reputation that it’s gaining as this easy-mode class. Everytime I see a mesmer with full condi food, scepter/torch my heart just sinks.

No disrespect intended…but….

I think you need to get down off your highhorse…..First off I agree, playing “Full Dire PU” is pretty cheesy….But I am not going to start casting stones at people that choose to…Nor is it going to “make my heart sink” when I see someone running it…TBH I think shatter is one of the top ten cheese builds in this game, always have. I mean to me its all: Poop clones, stunlock, shatter, profit, if that doesn’t work then you’re too glass to survive and run back and try again..BORING..But then again it may be more than that to some people…But I do not judge them.

If you want to know why Mesmers got an EZmode rep, its because it is a very good 1v1 class, be it Condi/Mantra/shatter/PU Power/whatever. The Mesmer shines in 1v1’s on a good player….People don’t like losing 1v1’s, so they come here and kitten about it. PU is the chosen complaint because some mouthbreather decided that Aegis and protection were “OP”. I got news for you, any time I have came across the “_ YOU PU MESMER” ragers, I have promptly dropped PU and redueled said player…NEVER has it made a noticeable difference in the over all outcome. Does that mean that PU isn’t helpful? NOPE, it just means that the outcome was already decided (in a conglomeration of Rock/Paper/Scissors and player skill level), so PU was merely “icing”. Where PU does benefit a Mesmer greatly is in roaming, I think it allows you the survivability to play a class with light armor that does not have as much mobility as the Thief/Warrior/Ele/etc.

I have news for you, don’t let people talk you up to the point where you think you are “too leet”, because I can assure you, you probably aren’t. Let’s not sit so high atop the mountain that we try to pass judgement, or ridiculously worse: lets not think that because some kid running what we think is “cheese” is ruining “OUR” reputation….

Roe.3679:

It’s because a mesmer can float around in stealth while having defensive boons while they have phantasms still dealing damage. If you stick around and don’t play the weaknesses you’re fighting a lot of shadows.

AoE or range the phantasms (prevents you from picking up unnecessary conditions), then press the player (kiting with range is best IMO). Most of them are susceptible to conditions once they have exhausted the few condi-clears they have.

The mistake most people make is they ignore everything but the player and they try to “wait out the stealth” of the player. If you can take out the phantasms you take away a large part (varying with builds) of the Mesmer’s damage output.

If all that fails, run away, its a Mesmer it won’t catch you 90% of the time.

GET OFF THE PIN….Take that needle out of your arm and free yourself from contributing to the zergs that have ruined this game…

Seriously though, if more people broke off from the pact things would be much better….Instead of having 70 in blob, cut down to 7 groups of 10 and be amazed at how much more you get done.

Dying game is dying (in terms of WvW)….I always laugh at the people that get all nerdraged about when someone says that…The fact is there is a decline in players, there is a decline in interest and there is a decline in faith that anything largely significant will be changed.

Playing for PPT only sustains interest for so long, once players realized that its all about coverage, server stacking, population, etc then all the PPT talk/interest goes out the window. Playing for fights is ok, but its largely dependent on too many variables week-in-week-out.

Will the game(mode) die completely? Obviously not, but it is on its way out. (And that is coming from someone who WvWs 7 days a week….) There will always be boons that boost gameplay (leagues, EoTM, major map releases etc)….But unless something changes at the base level of WvW it will not be sustainable beyond casual players or new players who have to run through the cycle of realizing what it really is all about.

Plain and simple, WvW really has no MEANING beyond chasing an asinine metric, that is better served to give population related data, than “competitive performance” data. Once you realize this, it is simply all downhill from there.

ANET: You need to find a way of making competitive play (be it on a scoreboard or on the battlefield) worth something, and not so reliant on “who has more people”.

As someone who has one of each class (fully exotic geared minimum), and plays 7 of those 8 regularly (ugh rangers…), Mesmers just feel like they are closest to being “good” balance-wise of any class.

RyuDragnier.9476:

quercus.9261:

PU mesmers slot alot of stealth and ppl hate stealth. I don’t blame them standing there or flailing about waiting for an unseen opponent to unload on them makes for bad gameplay.

My problem with their stealth here is that it BYPASSES revealed. I know what you’re thinking, how do you know? I threw down a stealth disruptor trap on a Mesmer and pulled him into it. He could still stealth despite that. THAT is overpowered, to where something that’s supposed to stop stealth (I use it to gank thieves who have been annoying me with constant camp flipping) will not effect them.

Only Decoy bypasses Revealed.

BlackDevil.9268:

@ hihey
I’ve always acknowledged what pu really is and I don’t mind running it in roaming.
Why? Because roaming is not about running ’’fair’’ builds that have multiple counters for enemies so you can make it easy for people who don’t run ’’fair’’ builds to kill you.
Roaming is about who’s the winner in the end, the enemy or you. No matter which build you run, no matter how many stacks you got, its about who wins from who. I hate dieing in roaming and I’m sure many others do. Those who wanna be ’’good’’ in roaming are almost bound to run the best possible build in game, which is PU for roaming.
This is the same as chosing between a 25 man raid with 60% front line or a raid with 20% front line. Exactly, people will go for the 60% because that’s how it works the best. You don’t go crumble off the meta gameplay, because you might just lose to less skilled people with better builds. You can call them lame, but they don’t give a kitten. They killed you, so they are satisfied.

This is the same for roaming what I described above. You don’t go ‘’oh you killed me with that build so lameee’‘, no you go ’’kitten yeah winning 1v3+ like a baws’’. I personally get as much fun out of PU as with shatter. The main reason to that is that I can’t win every fight with shatter, which I probably could with pu so i have to run off, but the 1v1’s and 1v2’s are more fun to fight. So it’s a win-lose situation for both builds.

Yeah I feel the same way…if some random elite guy wants to run a garbage build because it “ups the skill level” more power to them bro.

I make my build to win fights, just like the thief that runs: Hidden Killer, Shadow’s Rejuvenation, Cloaked in Shadow and/or Shadow’s Embrace….Most of the thieves I fight run all of these traits…Does it make them OP? Or does it make them smart for putting together a trait lineup that works well?

Like I said before (or in another post IDK), I would much rather have my thief’s traits on my Mesmer and not have PU….

calavel.6249:

Morfedel.4165:

Mostly, I expect a thief will run, but that’s fine too. I just don’t want to go down, and if the thief DOESNT run, maybe this setup will beat him.

I’m not going to tell you how to play the game, so I’m not going to say that this statement is in some way wrong, because it really is subjective.
But (assuming we are talking about WvW) I simply don’t understand why people build to troll, or to end in a stalemate, or to be able to run away from 1v1 or 1v2 fights with neither side getting any kills and achieving nothing. Denying your opponent kills is pointless if you also don’t get a kill. If you are roaming simply to duel, at least build so you can reliably kill/stomp people. Fighting troll builds is pointless and annoying and running them is equally pointless.

But that’s just my opinion.

This is not mesmer criticism btw, it is equally horrible when a thief stealths and runs at the first sight of an enemy. Unless that person is a dedicated scout communicating with commanders he is just wasting his own time and everyone else’s.

Why do you think people cry for stealth nerfs? Because it lets the stealther dictate the pace and the start/finish of the fight….90% of people asking for a stealth nerf will eventually slip-up and make a comment like: “its BS, I get them to 20% HP and they just stealth and run away”….

People really make me laugh, this is a rock/paper/scissors period, but yet they want every class to be able to beat every class and for ANET to adjust the builds accordingly when this doesn’t happen.

Myself, I am too proud of…well…myself, when it comes to fighting 1v1 so I rarely run from one if I am losing….But I have no problem when people do, sure I may /laugh or taunt them into trying to stay…But I build my toons to:

A. Be mobile
B. Stop other mobile players if they try to bail

Beyond that if they get away, they just get away…it happens.

Fuzzion.2504:

Even mesmers are now worried that PU mesmers are giving the class a bad name.

Im sure they are on the chopping board for nerfs.

Doubtful, just because people post on these forums doesn’t mean that its true or even the majority according to ANET.

Also we have all been told time and time again that WvW is balanced around PVE, and since PU doesn’t affect PVE that much (why do you think condi hasn’t been nerfed?), I would be surprised to see any relevant nerfs to PU. (READ: Not saying it won’t ever get nerfed, just saying it won’t get nerfed to make it less viable; remember when they “nerfed” perma stealth thieves?!)

quercus.9261:

PU mesmers slot alot of stealth and ppl hate stealth. I don’t blame them standing there or flailing about waiting for an unseen opponent to unload on them makes for bad gameplay.

Yes and no (Yes many hate stealth)….The single biggest problem with this game is that it isn’t really made for hardcore PvP’ers (not the best term but applicable for this explanation). There are many hardcore players that still play…However there are MANY more of, and this game is even tailor-made for the “casual”.

This game is casual in every way, it is made so that you can “pop-in” at will, play a bit and then leave, or you can grind it all day if you so choose. But make no mistake it is made for a casual player-base. Many people will even tell you that it is more of a “starter” MMO than anything else.

With ALL of that in mind, what you have here and 90% of the time when people cry nerf: Casuals who aren’t willing to learn a counter, and instead look to Mother ANET to come with the nerf wand and “fix” the situation. Stealth isn’t going away, if anything more classes will get more and more access to it.

It is just better at this point for players to take a little of the responsibility on themselves to learn to play the game and learn to beat obstacles. Like I said before even when ANET does drop the nerf-hammer it usually only ends up being something inconsequential to the trait/skill and people just move on to the next “flavor of the month” complaint.

Cufufalating.8479:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Cufufalating.8479:

Well I still think the problem is the torch, not PU.

Thieves can stealth spam and also gain benifits form doing it (cleansing, healing, inititive) but people tolerate it because it can be countered by interupting BP+HS or evading CnD. Perma-stealth thieves are annoying, and if they are out to just troll instead of fight then theres not much you can do, but for the most part there is coutnerplay to thieves.

Mesmers, on the other hand, stealth without warning or possibility to prevent it, and from any range (unlike CnD). That is the problem. If Prestige worked like the rangers LB stealth or thieves CnD, with a cast time/requirement to hit the target I think a lot of the frustration of fighting PU mesmers would disappear, because through good play you could actually do something to counter them.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blinding_Powder

10 second longer recharge granted that, but still pretty much used like a poor-mans stunbreaker by most thieves….and just used as “without warning or possibility to prevent” as torch stealths.

There nothing wrong with BP, just as theres nothing wrong with decoy. I am not saying all stealth everywhere must have a slow and obvious animation, I am just saying Presitage with its relative low CD and NO coutnerplay is too much.

Skills like SR or MI I think are great because they provide great benifit to the user but also have risks ascosiated with them (long cast time on MI, SR gives away the thief location and its possible to knock him out of it).

Skills like BP and Decoy are both fine because they are short stealths and are really panic buttons, there nothing wrong with that.

Viel is pretty weak, but its intended to be a group support utility so its not surprising or bad that its weak when only used for personal use.

As I already say, CnD is very dodgable (really it is, D/D thieves are the #1 easiest thief to fight when you have got the tactic down) and if it is missed/blocked/dodged it wastes a huge amout of inititive and usually forces a defensive utility out of the thief.

BP/HS is somewhat… questionable. I think we all know these thieves are trolly and a bit too much, but even then it does come at the cost of a lot of inititive and it is at least possible to interupt it (even if in practice its hard to execute).

Prestige, however, has no drawbackws. No counter play, no cost to the mesmer. Nothing. its just a free 4s stealth on a 24s CD (with traits, since this is the sort of mesmer we are discussing here) and IMO that is not right.

I am terribly confused of why you think there is anything different between BP or the Prestige????

Also not everyone runs Decoy…I mean I get what you’re saying about having some kind of counter-play but I mean you point seems to be badly biased because if you have a problem with one skill (prestige) why not dislike a similar skill (BP)?

Is it because its a weapon skill vs Utility? I mean it really makes no sense….

At the end of the day, I properly traited Thief has more benefit whilst in stealth than a PU mesmer.

And I play both, I would much rather have my thief traits on mesmer than PU when playing mesmer.

They are hated because people do not take the time to roll one and learn the weaknesses….And mainly because people have given up on thief nerfs/or play thieves and are tired of losing to mesmers.

Beyond that is just nubs who lost to a mesmer and want to cry.

I fall somewhere between:

-ANET had to make this map and roll it out before season 2 due to queue problems during leagues

and

-ANET rolled this map out because WvW has major inherit issues that will likely not be fixed anytime soon, and this map is a nice distraction in the meantime, and can help (on paper) to address/alleviate some complaints about WvW

But to answer the question, I think ANET would of course been better suited addressing many of the long-standing complaints/issues with WvW in general, rather than devoting the resources to a map that is largely hit-or-miss.

Fixing WvW is simple (either/or)

-Adjust PPT tick to account for population disparity in real-time (AKA: Handicapping)
-Turn the score off completely (this will never happen but it is a solution for some)
-Shorten the match period (similar to EoTM) – I hate this idea, but only because I enjoy the week long matches while learning how the individual enemies/guilds play. I think the week-long match gives the chance of rivalries forming which is good for competitive play. (But makes blowouts more prevalent)

These are the best solutions that I have suggested or seen suggested in the last year.

Cufufalating.8479:

Well I still think the problem is the torch, not PU.

Thieves can stealth spam and also gain benifits form doing it (cleansing, healing, inititive) but people tolerate it because it can be countered by interupting BP+HS or evading CnD. Perma-stealth thieves are annoying, and if they are out to just troll instead of fight then theres not much you can do, but for the most part there is coutnerplay to thieves.

Mesmers, on the other hand, stealth without warning or possibility to prevent it, and from any range (unlike CnD). That is the problem. If Prestige worked like the rangers LB stealth or thieves CnD, with a cast time/requirement to hit the target I think a lot of the frustration of fighting PU mesmers would disappear, because through good play you could actually do something to counter them.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blinding_Powder

10 second longer recharge granted that, but still pretty much used like a poor-mans stunbreaker by most thieves….and just used as “without warning or possibility to prevent” as torch stealths.

I play PU burst, I kill a lot of people…I play several toons in WvW I kill a lot of PU mesmers….

The long and short of it is that:
-PU is a nice trait that justifies spending 30 points in a tree.
-It buffs (defensively) a class that wears light armor and gives them some sustainability.
-A lot of people that ask for Mesmer nerfs play thief.
-A lot of Mesmer’s that think it should be nerfed either play a thief or have been influenced by thieves.
-A lot of Mesmer’s won’t trait this out of fear of being labeled “bad”, I kill those Mesmers daily.
-It is no more over-powered than several other Defensive traits in this game (in no particular order of importance): Shadows Embrace, Shadows Rejuvenation, Dogged March (when combined with associated runes), Last Stand, Cleansing Ire, Defy Pain, Diamond Skin, Protective Shield, Stabilized Armor, Cloaking Device, Power Shoes, Altruistic Healing, Hide In Plain Sight, Empathetic Bond,….I could go on, and these are just those in the Defensive Trees….

Straegen.2938:

AoE is WAY out of balance in GW2. Surely that has to be obvious to everyone at this point.

IMO it is ridiculously broken…The cap itself is crazy too, some times I find myself standing in 1000 red circles taking no damage, others I find myself standing in a couple dodge rolling for my life….This game is RNG from start to finish….Which really makes it less about individual skill (yes even in a big fight) and more about playing the meta.

Straegen.2938:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Agreed…and regarding the Flame rams: Thats what double door attacks are for….to make it doable with less supply used, they are also easy to defend against.

I think Flame Rams on EB keeps are an oversight. The inner oil doesn’t reach them. Inner catas/trebs often will not hit them. Pretty much the only thing that does hit them consistently is ACs. Being able to drop 4+ rams that hit both doors can often have the keep cracked open before a server responds. That is really cheap supply for siege that effectively cuts through keeps.

Besides it looks REALLY stupid to see a ram hitting air and damaging a door well away from it.

I can see your point, but when you place a ram, that “ground target circle” is the effective aoe range of that ram. (Not suggesting you do/did not know that just pointing out my stance). So if the physical ram head is not touching, it is probably a design error by anet in the animation. Because the ram surely reaches to the extent of the OD of that circle.

The edge of that circle is on the outer border of the second gate, which really could be an oversight I suppose. However, I have always thought/believed that it was done purposely because of the double door positioning. There was a video (not on double doors) but of ANET showing that ram range and them talking of keeping that in mind when placing rams to avoid siege.

As far as the oil goes, there is two sets of oil, so obviously I see what you mean about the second not hitting the first set of rams…But then again that is what the first set of oil is supposed to be for.

Cantur Soulfyre.5409:

King Amadaeus.8619:

If you ever catch me escorting a Yak you should either:

1. Assume there is a thief nearby that I plan to troll
or
2. Call my sponsor, I am off the wagon.

Notice he didn’t dispute the stealing candy from babies!! LOL

Do not get off the Battle Wagon! JK, miss you Sav, don’t know what I did (besides no flowers maybe?) to make you hate me so much you transfer away.

It was definitely the no flowers thing bro…I mean half of my toons have pink hair; not sure why you would think I wouldn’t like flowers???

In all seriousness it was just about the fights, they were getting fewer and fewer. The amount of roamers SF had was dwindling, so I really was starting to not fit in. I did not agree with some of the choices being made (or things being said), but then again they were not really my choices to make or mine to say as an individual.

When it gets to that point, it is just better to bounce and find a place just to play the game. I still play from time to time on my alt.

Nuzt.7894:

Um no, I swear people complain about the silliest things. This isn’t even remotely close to being a priority and very easy to deal with.

Agreed…and regarding the Flame rams: Thats what double door attacks are for….to make it doable with less supply used, they are also easy to defend against.

There used to be a ranger one on SF, they can turn the tag on and off, so its up to them I think if they want to be seen. (as ANET employees)

Allie Murdock.8152:

morrolan.9608:

When you’re thinking about it if you tone down the damage from aoe you must increase the single target damage and options for specs like staff ele and staff necro.

This is why we haven’t done anything major to AoE yet. Changing AoE basically means changing the balance of the entire game. :P

It is also pretty cheesy that a 5-man group can hit only 5 of a 20 man group (AoE cap), whilst the 20-man group can hit ALL of the 5-man group at once….

It makes fighting outnumbered incredibly more difficult, because you are fighting an invisible (aoe limit) system, rather than just fighting 15 outnumbered.

I would propose a defensive AoE cap, if the offensive one is truly required due to technical limitations. IE: I can only be hit by 5-targets at one time, rather than 10 people hitting me while I can only hit 5 of them.

Osicat.4139:

Tbh I’m bored with the silliness of this whole discussion. What is the point of this thread? Is it a complain about Mesmer by Mesmer about we have traits that actually are useful.

Serious, want to play harder cause it’s more fun go by al mean, go spec a setup you like, use focus by al mean and maybe even play with one hand cause then sure ppl will respect you in open fights better cause. If you win with that you deffo pro.

I do not seen any thiefs threads about thiefs want their backstabbing unviable as the fact they kill people make them look bad, don’t seen any warriors want the signet deleted as it sure would make ppl respect them if they dint have it.

Tbh, we mesmers have portal in tPvP, let’s start a hate thread about that as it’s useful, if we instead used feedback, mimic and mantra of pain we would be more respected. And GS accualy not bugged anymore, we should get that some attention cause we can’t have it that way.

In RL do you guys turn of ABS in your cars as it’s cheating, do the dishes by hand for more respect and refuse to eat anything you not hunted and killed yourself?

/Osicat

I have to agree, the PU-hate seems to be the flavor of the month right now…I think the problem with the state of this game is that when something actually works like it should people just assume its broken…

PU is a solid trait that gives a nice return for investing 30 points into its tier. TBH the only trait that I have found I “cannot live without” has been Deceptive Evasion…PU I can take or leave, but regardless think it is more than fair given what you give up to get it trait-wise.

What we learned today is there are a lot of people that like to RP.

Cantur Soulfyre.5409:

katniss.6735:

Join Maguuma.
Get rich.

I heard Savannah is on Mag now, he steals candy from babies and I heard that he “escorts” dolyaks. Not good for recruiting really….. :P

If you ever catch me escorting a Yak you should either:

1. Assume there is a thief nearby that I plan to troll
or
2. Call my sponsor, I am off the wagon.

Really just sounds like a cool excuse to zerg bro…If you hold absolutely nothing enemies will spawn camp you, thus having easier access to them…Doing that makes about as much sense as what you stated, in terms of getting fights…

Fights can be found fairly easily, granted it sucks when they hug a tower/keep, but finding fights and finding fights (w/siege) are totally different things in my book.

I am beyond amazed (outside of JQ/BG) that anyone still cares about PPT…

PPT is what ruins this game, it is what turns decent groups into karma-training zombies. PPT is what created the 50-man zergs. It is what fluctuates populations week-in-week-out, it is what caused every nubcake around to stack into 2-3 servers chasing a ‘win’.

Linghy.2031:

Don’t try to church up the fact that you’re blobbing.

Linghy.2031:

Don’t try to church up the fact that you’re blobbing.

Linghy.2031:

Don’t try to church up the fact that you’re blobbing.

Linghy.2031:

Don’t try to church up the fact that you’re blobbing.

Quoted for posterity.

Warlord.9074:

Blob predates Gw2. The term BLOB came from RTS games and that was to clump all of your units together to hit something rather than using your units tactically.

Which is basically what blobs are in GW2. Honestly guys if you don’t know what a word means or where it came from don’t try to re-invent it and come up with new meanings.

Zerg also predates GW2 and came from a playable race. Blobing also came from the same game. But has nothing to do with the zerg.

Does not matter where it came from, only matters how it is applied to this game…We all know where the term “zerg” comes from, it doesn’t matter because the application of the word in Gw2 lingo is only specific to Gw2.

Stop trying to make zerging and blobbing sound like something it isn’t…If that is the way you play then fine, but everyone needs to stop being so hurt over the terms…

If you are running in a large mass of people, no matter how composed, how elite, how organized: You are blobbing/zerging friend….It doesn’t make you bad, you might individually be a great player. But you are blobbing/zerging nonetheless.

I don’t get mad when people say “useless roamers” which is a far more negative term than “blobbing”….

styx.7294:

King Amadaeus.8619:

styx.7294:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Coverage Wars 2 dawg…Get your 1800 gems now kiddies.

Look who is talking =(

Yeah I think it is public knowledge Mag is the PPTingest zergiest server that hates open field fights, discourages roaming, and plays for Achievements. We all transferred here to win Gold League.

Owait…

Hahaha, it was more a playful jab. Of course it falls apart when we stop to think about it =)

I know bro, really it was just getting too dead in the T6-T8’s….They will always inflate during leagues, but 7-14 weeks out of the year is not enough to keep me there.

Transferring up probably gave me about another year’s worth of playtime in a game that I was more than ready to quit…The thing I have liked the most is the queues…They are few and far between, and when there are queues there is plenty going on in other maps.

On lower tiers the queues seemed more often, and from what I believe it was/is because everyone piles into 1 map, because there is not enough people to go around for another map. Then that in turn leaves the other 3 maps absolute ghosttowns.

Has been suggested many times (varying formulas), it is the only way WvW could ever be considered remotely “fair” or “even” given the current population/timezone disparities.

styx.7294:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Coverage Wars 2 dawg…Get your 1800 gems now kiddies.

Look who is talking =(

Yeah I think it is public knowledge Mag is the PPTingest zergiest server that hates open field fights, discourages roaming, and plays for Achievements. We all transferred here to win Gold League.

Owait…

Burl.9567:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Samhayn.2385:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Burl.9567:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Burl.9567:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Ross Biddle.2367:

The fights have been large scale, and epic. Now, go back to your drawing board and come up with a sound argument that works.

Argument still works and is more than valid: By your own admission SoR can’t hang with the PVdoor/ppt of JQ/BG, instead of “looking for fights” in T1 (IE: your blob can’t blob their blob), you chose to blob up and Float team blob. Still not satisfied with the PPT outlook, you blobbed up once again and went to EoTM and found blobby epic scale blob fights.

Also, related: When people make comments about SoR in EoTM, it is because we recognize the zerg/guild tags friend….It is not just random shots at a particular server…

Now go back to the delusional drawing board friend.

I have a feeling that your definition of “blob” is different than everyone else in T1. 30-40 is NOT a blob to any of SoR’s guilds, which is likely where your rage is coming from. 30-40 is actually a pretty small group in T1.

I’ve been in fights where all sides have had pretty large groups. Attributing all the “blobs” to a few SoR guilds is rather shortsighted on your part.

30-40 might not be a map zerg…But I think most people would consider 30-40 a blob son.

I’d stay out of T1 or T2 then if you truly think that son. Organized guild groups get to that size on a nightly basis.

People blob up on every tier son, does not make it any less ridiculous, your point was essentially what constitutes a “blob”…Like I said most people would consider 30-40 a blob, does not matter if it is made up of a single guild, pugs, princesses, my little ponies, or skritt….I have seen fully queued maps ALL on one single tag, and that was in T8….Stop thinking T1 is the center of the universe lol…

its ok kid, we all know Mag has 40man blobs you just can’t see them since most of your WvW players are thieves.

Blobs are blobs kid, doesn’t matter what server they are on….Try again.

That’s not a blob.

Well if 80 is map cap (or so some have suggested) I guess half of the entire map population would not be considered a blob. /sarcasm

Coverage Wars 2 dawg…Get your 1800 gems now kiddies.

Samhayn.2385:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Burl.9567:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Burl.9567:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Ross Biddle.2367:

The fights have been large scale, and epic. Now, go back to your drawing board and come up with a sound argument that works.

Argument still works and is more than valid: By your own admission SoR can’t hang with the PVdoor/ppt of JQ/BG, instead of “looking for fights” in T1 (IE: your blob can’t blob their blob), you chose to blob up and Float team blob. Still not satisfied with the PPT outlook, you blobbed up once again and went to EoTM and found blobby epic scale blob fights.

Also, related: When people make comments about SoR in EoTM, it is because we recognize the zerg/guild tags friend….It is not just random shots at a particular server…

Now go back to the delusional drawing board friend.

I have a feeling that your definition of “blob” is different than everyone else in T1. 30-40 is NOT a blob to any of SoR’s guilds, which is likely where your rage is coming from. 30-40 is actually a pretty small group in T1.

I’ve been in fights where all sides have had pretty large groups. Attributing all the “blobs” to a few SoR guilds is rather shortsighted on your part.

30-40 might not be a map zerg…But I think most people would consider 30-40 a blob son.

I’d stay out of T1 or T2 then if you truly think that son. Organized guild groups get to that size on a nightly basis.

People blob up on every tier son, does not make it any less ridiculous, your point was essentially what constitutes a “blob”…Like I said most people would consider 30-40 a blob, does not matter if it is made up of a single guild, pugs, princesses, my little ponies, or skritt….I have seen fully queued maps ALL on one single tag, and that was in T8….Stop thinking T1 is the center of the universe lol…

its ok kid, we all know Mag has 40man blobs you just can’t see them since most of your WvW players are thieves.

Blobs are blobs kid, doesn’t matter what server they are on….Try again.

clint.5681:

Banzie.5248:

clint.5681:

Banzie.5248:

clint.5681:

When i come back im so transferring to a higher tier. Im not suffering on a lower tier for another season if im around to play. I was a hardcore wvw player until the seasons happened and now I cant care to log in.

Woo come to IoJ Clint \o/

Bring some friends ;D

lol how is life on IoJ?

Farming dem DB Zergs all day ereday.

PPT wise, Typical SEA stupid big zergs after that its pretty even.

Well ill have to think about it, a lot of people i played with quit during or after the season like me or switched servers. So idk how many people i can bring where ever im going !

I play on Mags cause we break keep walls just so people will come out and fight.

Nopls. As long as “winning & losing” is tied to a metric that in large part measure population I think seasons are a huge waste of time.

If there has to be an offensive aoe cap, I think there should be a defensive one too.

Ross Biddle.2367:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Ross Biddle.2367:

The fights have been large scale, and epic. Now, go back to your drawing board and come up with a sound argument that works.

Argument still works and is more than valid: By your own admission SoR can’t hang with the PVdoor/ppt of JQ/BG, instead of “looking for fights” in T1 (IE: your blob can’t blob their blob), you chose to blob up and Float team blob. Still not satisfied with the PPT outlook, you blobbed up once again and went to EoTM and found blobby epic scale blob fights.

Also, related: When people make comments about SoR in EoTM, it is because we recognize the zerg/guild tags friend….It is not just random shots at a particular server…

Now go back to the delusional drawing board friend.

Yeah… see, my guild will run tagless and on a mandatory raid gets 25 max. So your math just isnt going to save you.

Do you play this game much??? Or do I have you so shook that you don’t know the difference between a GUILD TAG and a COMMANDER TAG? Do you know the difference between a guild tag and a commander tag? LOL

Here’s a hint, they are not the same thing.

Burl.9567:

urzen.7096:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Burl.9567:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Burl.9567:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Ross Biddle.2367:

The fights have been large scale, and epic. Now, go back to your drawing board and come up with a sound argument that works.

Argument still works and is more than valid: By your own admission SoR can’t hang with the PVdoor/ppt of JQ/BG, instead of “looking for fights” in T1 (IE: your blob can’t blob their blob), you chose to blob up and Float team blob. Still not satisfied with the PPT outlook, you blobbed up once again and went to EoTM and found blobby epic scale blob fights.

Also, related: When people make comments about SoR in EoTM, it is because we recognize the zerg/guild tags friend….It is not just random shots at a particular server…

Now go back to the delusional drawing board friend.

I have a feeling that your definition of “blob” is different than everyone else in T1. 30-40 is NOT a blob to any of SoR’s guilds, which is likely where your rage is coming from. 30-40 is actually a pretty small group in T1.

I’ve been in fights where all sides have had pretty large groups. Attributing all the “blobs” to a few SoR guilds is rather shortsighted on your part.

30-40 might not be a map zerg…But I think most people would consider 30-40 a blob son.

I’d stay out of T1 or T2 then if you truly think that son. Organized guild groups get to that size on a nightly basis.

People blob up on every tier son, does not make it any less ridiculous, your point was essentially what constitutes a “blob”…Like I said most people would consider 30-40 a blob, does not matter if it is made up of a single guild, pugs, princesses, my little ponies, or skritt….I have seen fully queued maps ALL on one single tag, and that was in T8….Stop thinking T1 is the center of the universe lol…

Are you two related?

I’m my own grandpa.

I call him Blobpa

Burl.9567:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Burl.9567:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Ross Biddle.2367:

The fights have been large scale, and epic. Now, go back to your drawing board and come up with a sound argument that works.

Argument still works and is more than valid: By your own admission SoR can’t hang with the PVdoor/ppt of JQ/BG, instead of “looking for fights” in T1 (IE: your blob can’t blob their blob), you chose to blob up and Float team blob. Still not satisfied with the PPT outlook, you blobbed up once again and went to EoTM and found blobby epic scale blob fights.

Also, related: When people make comments about SoR in EoTM, it is because we recognize the zerg/guild tags friend….It is not just random shots at a particular server…

Now go back to the delusional drawing board friend.

I have a feeling that your definition of “blob” is different than everyone else in T1. 30-40 is NOT a blob to any of SoR’s guilds, which is likely where your rage is coming from. 30-40 is actually a pretty small group in T1.

I’ve been in fights where all sides have had pretty large groups. Attributing all the “blobs” to a few SoR guilds is rather shortsighted on your part.

30-40 might not be a map zerg…But I think most people would consider 30-40 a blob son.

I’d stay out of T1 or T2 then if you truly think that son. Organized guild groups get to that size on a nightly basis.

People blob up on every tier son, does not make it any less ridiculous, your point was essentially what constitutes a “blob”…Like I said most people would consider 30-40 a blob, does not matter if it is made up of a single guild, pugs, princesses, my little ponies, or skritt….I have seen fully queued maps ALL on one single tag, and that was in T8….Stop thinking T1 is the center of the universe lol…

Burl.9567:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Ross Biddle.2367:

The fights have been large scale, and epic. Now, go back to your drawing board and come up with a sound argument that works.

Argument still works and is more than valid: By your own admission SoR can’t hang with the PVdoor/ppt of JQ/BG, instead of “looking for fights” in T1 (IE: your blob can’t blob their blob), you chose to blob up and Float team blob. Still not satisfied with the PPT outlook, you blobbed up once again and went to EoTM and found blobby epic scale blob fights.

Also, related: When people make comments about SoR in EoTM, it is because we recognize the zerg/guild tags friend….It is not just random shots at a particular server…

Now go back to the delusional drawing board friend.

I have a feeling that your definition of “blob” is different than everyone else in T1. 30-40 is NOT a blob to any of SoR’s guilds, which is likely where your rage is coming from. 30-40 is actually a pretty small group in T1.

I’ve been in fights where all sides have had pretty large groups. Attributing all the “blobs” to a few SoR guilds is rather shortsighted on your part.

30-40 might not be a map zerg…But I think most people would consider 30-40 a blob son.

Avatar of Belle.9623:

However, it is the most fun zerging I’ve had in a long time. Xushin #1 EOTM commander. Xushin for president!

I am going to change your rank name in guild today….