Guild Wars 2

SkylightMoon.1980:

I run a 15-20 man skill group with about 9-13 heavies depending on the group size with the rest ranged. We usually dont have much trouble wiping groups that are 30-40 man sized grouped, especially pugs. The only thing we have had trouble with lately is countering 30-40 man groups that run 20-30 melee.

The answer is live to fight another group, because the scenario you are describing means the ratios are too similar. Those groups are larger versions of your grouping, and numbers>skill in this game.

My best advice is to practice controlling the engagement (you determine when and where to engage), and try to control the tempo/movement.

And why do we want achievement hunters in WvW???

(Don’t say for free kills, because even that is boring). I would prefer ANET not “force” people into WvW, just as I would prefer ANET not “force” PVE at me.

Arius.7031:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Arius.7031:

Regardless, SF isn’t exactly the nicest server we’ve ever played against… so you’ll excuse me if I don’t care at all about demoralizing them. They’ve put us at 0 or close to 0 ppt enough times for it to be okay for us to do it to them one time.

I had to LOL at this bigtime friend…Keep zerging for that ppt crown!

And what was there to lol about? SF has put us at near/absolute 0 PPT multiple times so I fail to see why it’s mean of us to do the same thing to poor little SF.

I am sorry I shouldn’t have said anything, I do not want to take up any more of your valuable time that could be spent on siege. (likely an arrowcart)

Putting people at 0 PPT, with superior off-peak coverage is totally fine…Making a thread about it, and then getting defensive when people poke fun is where the err is made.

I remember when people said Ascended gear grinds would imbalance the game…Now we get a 10% reduction after grinding (well some people) for ascended boosts…

LAWL

The problem with moving down in tiers, is once the matchups get “easy” all the fairweathers show back up and eventually boost the server back into the previous tier, and the cycle repeats.

All this could have been solved, or at worst alleviated had ANET implemented some sort of “handicapping” system int he scoring to adjust for population differences. This would have theoretically allowed wider margins for matchups. Instead we have the “tiered” system which is supposed to match “similar” servers but does not due to population unbalances, momentum swings, PVE updates, IE: several external sources that influence the system greatly.

Arius.7031:

Regardless, SF isn’t exactly the nicest server we’ve ever played against… so you’ll excuse me if I don’t care at all about demoralizing them. They’ve put us at 0 or close to 0 ppt enough times for it to be okay for us to do it to them one time.

I had to LOL at this bigtime friend…Keep zerging for that ppt crown!

I went to Mag because of its reputation of having roamers that simply play the game regardless of the matchup, or the PPT. Our group looks for fights, and there are plenty of them to be had up here.

The roaming is much better up here than on SF, mainly because we can track the enemy zergs much easier, there are generally more players on, and I have had less queues on Mag than I did on SF.

I have seen some roamers on SBI, but they also zerg/ppt a lot. I personally like it on Mag, because from what I have seen, the only PPT chasing we do is just enough to make sure we stay on this tier/level to stay in good fights.

Nabrok.9023:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Nabrok.9023:

King Amadaeus.8619:

People gripe about ANET because ANET continues to slap the vocal majority in the face with every “update”. Now according to some leaked posts (in the past) ANET believes these forums to be essentially the vocal minority, which is their right to think (wrong or right as it might be).

Most likely right. I remember DAoC put short surveys on the login screen to help determine development direction, and the results usually came out in a very different way than the forums would have led you to believe.

You have to remember that it’s only a small sub-set of a games players that even visit forums, never mind post in them.

So even that 8-bit piece of kitten understood it needed to get feedback from somewhere?

I find it amusing that you’re complaining about them not taking player feedback in the update that’s had way more player feedback than any other so far.

You mean the same beta where people were warned if they were overtly critical they would booted from said beta?

If I speak to a wall about its faults did the wall take feedback, or was it just me talking to a wall?

Nabrok.9023:

King Amadaeus.8619:

People gripe about ANET because ANET continues to slap the vocal majority in the face with every “update”. Now according to some leaked posts (in the past) ANET believes these forums to be essentially the vocal minority, which is their right to think (wrong or right as it might be).

Most likely right. I remember DAoC put short surveys on the login screen to help determine development direction, and the results usually came out in a very different way than the forums would have led you to believe.

You have to remember that it’s only a small sub-set of a games players that even visit forums, never mind post in them.

So even that 8-bit piece of kitten understood it needed to get feedback from somewhere?

Does anyone else feel like if we don’t separate Andrew and Krall that the universe might implode???

I agree people can be kitten ANET, but that is only because they still half-kitten care about this game….Once the complaining stops, you will see REAL kittenG PROBLEMS with the life of this game.

People gripe about ANET because ANET continues to slap the vocal majority in the face with every “update”. Now according to some leaked posts (in the past) ANET believes these forums to be essentially the vocal minority, which is their right to think (wrong or right as it might be). And as such they move forward with their development decisions as they see fit. I can say that they do seem to be trying to take suggestions from the players on these forums. But until they start to implement something remotely familiar (to us, the people making suggestions), even that is not going to be enough to get people off their backs.

So many of you banner wavers come on here and make out like the vocal base here can’t agree on what they want, but every time they have one of these list/discussion threads there are always many things people agree upon.

Sidebar: if ANET actually fixed some bugs/lingering issues in this game that have been around FOREVER, then those lists/complaints would shorten, and even MORE people would begin to agree on what improvements could/should be made.

Nabrok.9023:

Are there really so many thieves on lower tiers?

Bring them on, I destroy most thieves that try to take on my necro.

No that was a troll post I am certain…I have seen many more thieves and mesmers “roaming” on higher tiers than lower ones.

Same reason that every fightnight or duel in OS is full of thieves and mesmers in higher tiers (and some in lower/mids), people like using stealth as a crutch and in turn believe that means they are “roamers”.

Dahkeus.8243:

Such a false dichotomy…

Mines bigger than yours….

Still looking for that e-sport eh?

Why do people always assume the “problem” only exists for the servers that get stomped…You know there are some decent players, that enjoy challenges, and like to fight that end up on the servers doing the stomping (winning servers), that hate this system just as much as the people getting stomped.

To the people that say “why would you post here as a dev” or “everything they post goes under a microscope”:

1. Welcome to MMOs I hope you are enjoying your first one.
2. A better way to stay out of that microscope is to post adequately enough (varies) to keep the microscope “zoomed out”.

tluv.5821:

King Amadaeus.8619:

DivineBeing.2086:

I am pretty concerned about WvW to be honest.

The way you guys are describing WvW in your lower tiers is an eye opener :o.

It is pretty bad in lower tiers to be honest. Not like a wasteland, but getting there. There will always be things that give it false boosts in population though (reset Fridays, leagues, events, etc), but overall (speaking as someone who played T5-8 for the last two years) there has been a steady decline in players on average. If you play NA prime it is “ok”, but some servers might only have 20-30 (total in all maps) at given points in the day. It got to where you could roam on a BL and see maybe 4-5 people in an hour, just a waste of time really.

If the trend continues, more and more players will begin to either stop playing WvW/GW2, or transfer up in tiers. Now, obviously not everyone would go one of these routes, but even if a small percentage did, it would only serve to further decimate the lower tier populations. Everyone (myself included) thought eventually the “stacked” servers would un-stack due to queues/balance issues on their on accord, but now that does not appear to be the case. At the end of the day it is better I guess for them to play with 30-40 minute queues than to play for 30-40 minutes and get no fights.

You are mistaken about queues on Higher Tiers. From what I understand, the only server that may get queues during the week, is BG. On JQ, we have no queue for EBG most of the time. Only time we really have queues is Reset night and MAYBE saturday night.

I am not mistaken, because I didn’t say queues existed…I said: "Everyone (myself included) thought eventually the “stacked” servers would un-stack due to queues/balance issues on their on accord, but now that does not appear to be the case."

Since queues were not the issue everyone thought they would be (well outside of leagues) then the “great de-stacking” never occurred. (which is what I think you were getting at)

DivineBeing.2086:

I am pretty concerned about WvW to be honest.

The way you guys are describing WvW in your lower tiers is an eye opener :o.

It is pretty bad in lower tiers to be honest. Not like a wasteland, but getting there. There will always be things that give it false boosts in population though (reset Fridays, leagues, events, etc), but overall (speaking as someone who played T5-8 for the last two years) there has been a steady decline in players on average. If you play NA prime it is “ok”, but some servers might only have 20-30 (total in all maps) at given points in the day. It got to where you could roam on a BL and see maybe 4-5 people in an hour, just a waste of time really.

If the trend continues, more and more players will begin to either stop playing WvW/GW2, or transfer up in tiers. Now, obviously not everyone would go one of these routes, but even if a small percentage did, it would only serve to further decimate the lower tier populations. Everyone (myself included) thought eventually the “stacked” servers would un-stack due to queues/balance issues on their on accord, but now that does not appear to be the case. At the end of the day it is better I guess for them to play with 30-40 minute queues than to play for 30-40 minutes and get no fights.

I remember when people warned ANET about the power creep in this game (ascended) and tons of people (power buying grinders) came on here and told the people that were against the gear/power creep they were crazy.

Now guess what?

styx.7294:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Not just this thread, but every thread of this type always gets two responses:

1. Transfer (obvious)
2. “Stick it out”

With all due respect, the people that stick it out are pretty awesome, and I would never try to take anything away from them.

But if you are looking for real advice: there are just as many “sad endings” for people that rode out a server only to see it fall and burn out as there are storys like “FC” where they climbed out of the bottom of the rankings.

The real question you have to ask yourself, is that is it worth you being bored/miserable (assuming it has gotten to that point) for the possibility that a server (huge group of random individuals) will somehow “figure it all out” and make a change?

Like I said the “rags to riches” stories are great, good on those folks….But the reality is that more servers “stay the same” or actually experience a fall rather than have these big rebirths and make climbs.

TL/DR: There is nothing wrong with having server loyalty, but you should not let something like that get in the way of you enjoying the mode of gameplay you like, which coincidentally is the only mode of play (out of 3 total) that relies on server-specific play.

Yeah, a lot of transfers are due to being unhappy but transferrin isn’t gonna fix many things. A lot of guilds transfer and then fall apart, a lot of people transfer and then quit playing. WvW is about buildin somethin, fightin for somethin and when you give up on that it loses some of its magic, I think.

There’s a lot to love bein in the lower tiers. It’s a sort of wilderness, without much order, or big oversight. Everythin is scaled down, individuals matter more. Night capping and outmanned happen just as much, if not more in tier 1 and the impression I get is the map is just as empty outside the single zergs each server has put out.

Right transferring isn’t a fixall. But if you do your research, and figure out what you want as a player transferring can be the answer. The only time I would advise against transferring is if your reason is: “PPT/To win/etc”. Because unless you are BG you will lose, and realistically there is little an individual and in some cases large guilds (even) can do to prevent that. For me fights are what I enjoy, and they were becoming scarce on the lower tiers, so I wanted to make a move that allowed me to:
-Find good fights
-Play on a server that participates even if the score is not going their way
-Does not typically queue maps (beyond extreme circumstances)

Like I said if you know what you want, transferring is a good thing. If you are just feeling “meh” you might wanna do a little more research.

Not just this thread, but every thread of this type always gets two responses:

1. Transfer (obvious)
2. “Stick it out”

With all due respect, the people that stick it out are pretty awesome, and I would never try to take anything away from them.

But if you are looking for real advice: there are just as many “sad endings” for people that rode out a server only to see it fall and burn out as there are storys like “FC” where they climbed out of the bottom of the rankings.

The real question you have to ask yourself, is that is it worth you being bored/miserable (assuming it has gotten to that point) for the possibility that a server (huge group of random individuals) will somehow “figure it all out” and make a change?

Like I said the “rags to riches” stories are great, good on those folks….But the reality is that more servers “stay the same” or actually experience a fall rather than have these big rebirths and make climbs.

TL/DR: There is nothing wrong with having server loyalty, but you should not let something like that get in the way of you enjoying the mode of gameplay you like, which coincidentally is the only mode of play (out of 3 total) that relies on server-specific play.

HeNnAz.8913:

The guilds here stopped looking for fights and started aiming for PPT,

Please name the guilds that stopped looking for fights and now chase PPT, because that totally sounds backwards.

PPT and OPEN field fights are mutually exclusive though. I would prefer not to engage an enemy that has access to:

-Portal Bombs from behind their keep walls
-Siege
-The Wall Portal they can veil through
-Siege
-The ability to run inside when things go bad for them
-oh and Siege

To the OP no it doesn’t make you a kitten. I enjoy taking things every once in a while because otherwise I would never get loot in this game (I RARELY PVE). 90% of my time is spent solo roaming or finding fights with guildies/friends.

PPT is only a metric that matters in close matchups (Read almost never), and even then it is really more about Population, than about skill.

Solstice.1097:

I am hearing roughly 10% reduced overall crit damage??? If that’s right it doesn’t sound like such a big deal. Actually a good thing the more I think about it.

But condi bunker does need to be reworked. Too strong 1v1, too weak in large fights. What Tongku said – there’s too much group cleansing and not enough individual.

Agreed. Don’t get me wrong either, I personally do not think it will be that big of a deal once it all is said and done. Warriors will still be getting ridiculous kill shots, and thieves silly backstab numbers….But tons of people have had an issue with the condi meta for quite a while, and this is just a slap in the face to those people. But since it doesn’t really affect the average zergling (because condis don’t hit them like they do roamers/small groups), then it doesn’t take a high profile platform.

FYI: I am over the PVE argument, I could care less if they wanna nerf dmg to robots, but there is no reason (beyond laziness) that PVE nerfs have to be tied to WvW.

Servers are dying, seems to be happening all over the place.

WvW Rules

-Any fight you win: you were outnumbered.
-Any fight you lost: you were outnumbered.

Cufufalating.8479:

Full berserker builds like thieves, warrior, guardians (though they are rare), LB ranger (even though they are bad, its still rediculous how hard the AA hits if they get left alone) all hit way too hard – hitting over 10k should not be a thing, 1-2 shotting people should not be a thing.

I think this nerf is 100% justified and good for the game.

Are condition bunkers a problem to? Should they be nerfed to? Probably, but thats a different issue and doesnt change the fact that this is a good change.

IMO^^

I get that, but I also think you need to take a serious look into just how much dmg output a full condi build puts out. (poison/bleedstacks/torment/burning for example)

Cogbyrn.7283:

@Ozoug: I see where you are coming from, but if a Warrior used Healing Surge, would it be any different? Can you kill Guardians? Can you kill Thieves? Can you kill Mesmers? What can you kill, how can you kill it, and why doesn’t that apply to fighting Warriors?

They’re also reducing Healing Signet’s heal by 8% (don’t tell me that isn’t significant if we’re complaining about 10% loss in damage), so odds are the gap doesn’t widen. You also get an additional sigil to play with on your staff, and maybe some other changes will hit that might help as well.

Dropping AoEs isn’t exactly very 1v1 friendly, and I don’t think it ever will be. If you absolutely love Staff Ele, and you absolutely love 1v1s/roaming, that’s fine. However, I feel like you should be able to recognize that you’re putting yourself at a disadvantage already. I doubt a Staff Ele could kill me as a Powermancer, either.

Should they balance around a Staff Ele’s ability to kill a Warrior?

@King: I appreciate the more thorough response, but you act like condition application cannot be blocked/invuln’d/evaded like direct damage. Can you acknowledge that every way to avoid direct damage is applicable to avoiding conditions, except in very special circumstances (like unblockable abilities)?

Let’s take Necros, since you like to call GG Necro.

Grasping Dead: 3/4ths second cast time, readable animation.
Enfeebling Blood: 3/4ths second cast time + time it takes for the AoE to drop, readable animation.
Dark Path: 3/4ths second cast time, the only dark hand projectile from Death Shroud. Fairly slow-moving, but unblockable.
Locust Swarm: 1/2 second cast time, readable projectile.
Signet of Spite: 3/4ths second cast time, signet appears above Necro’s head. There’s no other signet that makes sense for them to use that you could see above their head, so you don’t have to see the drawing on it to know it’s Spite for dodging.

Marks are a bit of a special case, as even though they all have 3/4ths cast time, the tell is difficult to see (unless it’s Reaper’s Mark, which is completely unique). You can also trait marks to be Unblockable, but that’s 20 points into Death Magic, which your condition builds are most likely not dipping into.

So given that these abilities can generally be blocked(most)/evaded(all)/invuln’d(all), from an application perspective, is defending against them any different than defending against direct damage? Other than the fact that you can potentially wipe them later.

I don’t even run conditions, but I went through a “conditions need a change” period, and realized that I didn’t actually think that once I took another look. I do think condition builds gain a bit too much from Dire gear, more than Power builds often gain from PVT gear, but that’s an itemization issue, not a Conditions issue.

You make good points, and yes you do have the ability to negate condi attacks just as physical ones, but I think that many people (myself included) are taking issue with is that they are nerfing (extent is debatable) zerker dmg output, when said zerker was already giving something up (armor for instance) to get said dmg output.

Whereas condi builds tend to give up base power dmg, but get just as much (arguably more on certain builds) back in the condition dmg. While gaining toughness and in some cases healing power (depending on build/class).

So my original point was and is: why is there any need (beyond personal preference/playstyle) to run a DPS spec now given the impending “nerf”, when the current meta-bunker-condi is not losing anything?

Cogbyrn.7283:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Cogbyrn.7283:

And why do you think it would be balanced to be able to cleanse conditions as fast as they can be applied? You’re supposed to cleanse conditions at the right times, just like you’re supposed to dodge direct damage at the right times. You can also dodge conditions by dodging the ability that applies them.

You see conditions work so well because often people do nothing to dodge them, then do nothing to cleanse them. Then they call them imbalanced, or say they are “spammed mindlessly” or something along those lines. Blows my mind.

So you are saying there should be some “skill” displayed as to when to cleanse condis, but not when to apply them? GG necro.

I’m going to give you one more chance to understand, but as of now I don’t think you’re reading what people are saying, just cherry-picking comments as excuses to remain bitter.

What skill is displayed as to when to apply direct damage? What skill is displayed as to when to avoid direct damage? Do you just spam direct damage all the time, but you have to know what specifically to avoid with limited avoidance abilities in order to minimize damage taken?

What skill is displayed as to when to apply conditions? What skill is displayed as to when to avoid/cleanse conditions? Do you just spam conditions all the time, but you have to know what specifically to avoid with limited avoidance abilities, and when specifically to cleanse with limited cleans abilities, to minimize damage taken?

If you let a Warrior Bull’s Charge, 100B, Earthshaker, Backbreaker, Staggering Blow, and hammer auto you, do you come to the forums and complain about direct damage spam and how mindless it is?

Or do you do something about it?

As a person that plays every class, I can tell you there are far more ways to avoid base physical damage (the kind you are describing) than there are condition cleanses on average.

Sure you need skill to know when to use a cleanse, but that is really because of access/cooldowns related to those skills. Short of a couple of skills you really don’t need a ton of skill to apply conditions, it really is closer to mindless spam than it is skill-based play. Or perhaps, let me say it in a way that even you can understand since you think you are smarter than everyone else:

Mindlessly spamming conditions is not in large part different to playing conditions “well”. Both are essentially the same: if conditions are cleansed, just reapply. Whereas the person doing the cleansing is on a 30-40sec CD most likely. Also you can in large part choose which condis to apply, whereas the cleanser is cleansing them in a “received” order.

I am not bitter about conditions friend, in fact I run some condi builds, and I have tried the metas….I am saying they are ridiculously broken because they simply are.

I am sorry friend, but if you think that in a 1v1 the cleanser has just as much in his kitten nal as the “applier” then all I can say is:

GG Necro

Cogbyrn.7283:

And why do you think it would be balanced to be able to cleanse conditions as fast as they can be applied? You’re supposed to cleanse conditions at the right times, just like you’re supposed to dodge direct damage at the right times. You can also dodge conditions by dodging the ability that applies them.

You see conditions work so well because often people do nothing to dodge them, then do nothing to cleanse them. Then they call them imbalanced, or say they are “spammed mindlessly” or something along those lines. Blows my mind.

So you are saying there should be some “skill” displayed as to when to cleanse condis, but not when to apply them? GG necro.

styx.7294:

King Amadaeus.8619:

clint.5681:

Avatar of Belle.9623:

In the lower tiers, wvw activity dropped off sharply after leagues. Burn out and whatnot. It has been slowly picking up and I heard from friends it is better this week.

Did you transfer to mags? I am totally planning on transfering to mags whenever i come back to the game.

I R THERE. Loving it too, fun fights are fairly easy to find, you even find people who want to fight you rather than running for the nearest [insert team color] portal.

The peeps on Mag have been fairly cool too, I have seen slim-none PPT-griping. Every server has those PPT-gazers, but from what I have seen in a 3 day sample there is far less of it than on the lower tiers, which makes me happy.

King in BS and BS on Maguuma? Craziness. Say hi to Obs, I guess!

Yeah bro, got tired of trying to roam on lower tiers and see 4-5 people in an hour…Then get funneled to EB to find a fight and see 50 people sitting on siege, or 20 willing to chase you solo.

I joined BS because Belle swore she was going to teach me how to play League of Angels.

OR they could just delete PPT altogether but then all those scoreboard watchers would riot.

So the best solution (IMO OFC) is to handicap/balance the scoring/ppt based on current real world WvW-map populations.

Or they could just leave it alone, like it has been, as many will QQ in this thread for…Because that has worked out so well up until this point. (looks at all the bandwagon servers)

Funny to see people saying stuff like “this change was needed”, then reading Necro in their sig…But seriously, all this will do is put a HUGE kitten spotlight on Condi builds so they will be next to get that nerf stick.

I would rather get one-shotted by a glass zerker thief that atleast has to give something up than a bunker condi war/necro/engi/etc. These bunker-condis really give up nothing short of power, which isn’t really needed anyway as they can spam conditions faster than they can typically be cleansed by most classes. ( I have tried a few of the builds myself and they are ridiculously easy to play and have few weaknesses)

Let me ask you this: How many people out there are building specifically for power negation? Now how many people are building specifically to overcome the condi spam garbage? (Hint: look at the price of Melandru Runes and Lemongrass Poultry Soup)

Josh Davis.6015:

Very apt timing for this thread to appear as I’ve recently been enlisted by the WvW team.

What does this mean for you guys? I’ll be working closely with Devon and crew to act as the liaison between our development team and you – raising community concerns with the team, finding answers, being the good/bad guy, and whatever else!

For those wondering, I play engineer, I prefer to roam, I’m currently on JQ, and yes, I take bribes in the form of cookies.

Hi glad to have you onboard sir, I play on Mags, I like to roam and I will crush you bro.

I think what you guys are missing in the conversation is that there are some inherit things that make this game unbalanced beyond the numbers argument. Everyone fully expects there to be an uphill battle in a 5v15 or a 15v30, but there are extenuating issues that compound these fights and make them sway EVEN MORE to the larger force. (Think AoE caps, no DR on CC’s, etc.)

Lets not forget where and why many of these ball up and “stack tight, might on me” scenarios came from. They were all born out of the “workaround” to exploit the 5-man AoE cap. I truly think if their weren’t an AoE cap things would be a lot different for smaller team play, you gotta realize small mans are already getting hit with tons of damage, it is the 20-25+ groups that have people that are simply immune to certain situations due to the AoE cap.

Straegen.2938:

The only time a Ranger has been dangerous was pre-BM nerf when some pets hit like a truck. When I do run into a well played Ranger, the only thought that crosses my mind is how much more dangerous that player would be in another class.

Same here….

Quells.2498:

While playing last night I noticed the Outnumbered buff come up and it sent me into a spiral of thought about logical fighting scenarios. If you had 40 people in a small area all trying to swing swords wouldn’t it be much more difficult than a smaller group?

What if Anet added a “Crowded” debuff to WvW? The formula could be something like this:

if players within x radius is => y then Crowded Debuff

I won’t suggest what the debuff should actually be or what the number of players should be either but the debuff would make a lot of sense. The game is taking a turn towards this type of system anyways with the bloodlust and outnumbered buffs. I think this Crowded debuff fits right in with them in terms of theme and goal. Also, Anet could not add it to Edge of the Mists so if people want to GvG or run in mass groups unhindered they still can. Thoughts?

This idea has came up in the past, a few of us on TS were speaking about it last night although we went farther and suggested buffing/boosting the individual a % depending on the number of friendlies around them. (IE: the fewer friendlies the more of a stat boost/buff)

However, when this has came up in the past (conversations about penalizing zerging) ANET devs (from what I remember anyway) stated they would never be in favor of penalizing players for essentially blobbing together.

They would probably be more likely (out of the 2 scenarios) to buff under-manned teams or individuals rather than de-buff a large group. But in reality they will likely do neither.

The biggest problem with this game right now is that (on average) numbers are far better rewarded than skill, and there is a point where numbers are able to overcome skill, and that point right now is far too low on the scale of things.

Draygo.9473:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Downed state/Rallying is a top 3 issue in WvW. But since it is an ANET implemented idea, somewhat unique in comparison to other games, and caters to bad players who need a crutch to get along….It will not go away.

That said there is little more frustrating then when solo roaming you come across 3-4 enemies, down 1-2 of them and the others just keep reviving the downed ones.

At least slow the revive speed down considerably.

Umm no. Coordinated groups use the rallying mechanic, often to strong effect. If you solo roam, you cannot effectively use the rally mechanic, and that’s something you have to live with (unless you are a ranger, but not too many of those in wvw these days)

The thing I want anet to do is nerf the rally mechanic for large groups. Limit the number of people rallied per kill would be a good start. 5 closest valid enemies should rally instead of infinite.

Player based rallying is awesome, you can really feel battles turn when organized groups use rally skills to bring up their downed and are able to finish off a few enemies in the meantime and turn that fight around. I feel that fights would be far more bland if the rally mechanic was removed.

I am sorry but rally mechanic is a crutch for bad players plain and simple…It is also a junkpile statement that people use to justify losing fights. I am sorry ANET feels the need to cater to Carebears. If I take on a 1v4 and I down 2 bad players, having the 2 half-decent players “out-rez” them back up before I can:

A. Finish one of the downed
or
B. Kill one of the rezzers

is simply a poor design. The scenarios I am listing really dont matter number-wise, the thing about this game is that most of the numbers translate in applicable ratios anyway. So whether it be 1v2 or 10v20, the higher number will always have the advantage, and not just because of simply having more people, they will also have the advantage due to the downed mechanic as well. The fact of the matter is, that downed state/rallying is just another design that caters to the zergling and punishes the outmanned party in the fight. It allows the larger group to win due to attrition likely just as often as they would win due to skill.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Elochai.1280:

The only purpose this thread serves is to complain and publically announce that you think they are an unfriendly server.

Please explain why rain is wet master.

BWUH? Wait, so [BS] moved to Magz? Miss ya over in SF dude, but i understand.

Yessir, and a few of us on SF went as we were looking for better fights. You won’t miss me much bro, I can still play on SF whenever, that is what happens when you get troll-banned and end up with two accounts.

Downed state/Rallying is a top 3 issue in WvW. But since it is an ANET implemented idea, somewhat unique in comparison to other games, and caters to bad players who need a crutch to get along….It will not go away.

That said there is little more frustrating then when solo roaming you come across 3-4 enemies, down 1-2 of them and the others just keep reviving the downed ones.

At least slow the revive speed down considerably.

I love how PPT and the matches are so balanced and close, and that skill (not coverage) equates to winning.

Elochai.1280:

The only purpose this thread serves is to complain and publically announce that you think they are an unfriendly server.

Please explain why rain is wet master.

Servers (people) who spend inordinate amounts of time stressing/worrying/gazing/playingfor PPT and the scoreboard (rather than worrying about things they can actually control and having fun), usually go to pieces when they get faced with a tough matchup. This may be the cause of the responses you were getting.

clint.5681:

Avatar of Belle.9623:

In the lower tiers, wvw activity dropped off sharply after leagues. Burn out and whatnot. It has been slowly picking up and I heard from friends it is better this week.

Did you transfer to mags? I am totally planning on transfering to mags whenever i come back to the game.

I R THERE. Loving it too, fun fights are fairly easy to find, you even find people who want to fight you rather than running for the nearest [insert team color] portal.

The peeps on Mag have been fairly cool too, I have seen slim-none PPT-griping. Every server has those PPT-gazers, but from what I have seen in a 3 day sample there is far less of it than on the lower tiers, which makes me happy.

Lots of people just got trolled IMO.

Andrew Clear.1750:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Mogar.9216:

comes down to fairness. If a keep took 50 people 2 hrs to take it should worth more than the same keep taken by 3 person. Yes I have taken keeps with 1 golem and 3 players a few times in the morning. I really don’t think my 10 mins of pvd with 2 friends is the same kitten people at 8pm est working 2 hrs to take the same keep.

You SEA player keep whining about how your effort should count as much as prime time players. The fact is you fail to see that right now your effort is worth WAY MORE than NA players. It is the NA prime time players who are getting shafted because their hard work counts for little in wining a match up.

That pretty much sums it all up in a nice neat package.

It is not about locking players out of WvW for playing off-peak, but it should be valued according to the difficulty of the task. PVDoor with handful of people against no one, should not be rewarded as much as a 20v20 take on the same objective that is distinctly more difficult. NO MATTER WHAT TIME OF THE DAY.

Also what is quoted above is correct: people are too focused on their off-peak capping being devalued, the problem exists now where there is A TON MORE value in being an off-peak player on a server than there is being a primetime player. This gets even more lopsided the further you go down in server ranks, to the point where if you are even slightly competitive during the NA prime (for example) having good overnight/early morning coverage can essentially win a matchup.

Also, no one has talked about what “Peek capping” is. If an EST time player logs off at 12am, it is 9pm PST. If that PST logs off at 12am, which is getting close to SEA time. So, night capping seems to be very relative, based on your timezone of choice. When it is 6pm EST time, it is 3pm PST…etc…etc.

1 AM PST is 6pm in Korea, so yes, the PST players bleed right into the SEA time slot. I guess PST players should not be able to play past 9pm, because it is unfair to the work of the EST players.

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, this is a bunch of garbage. Shut up and play the kitten game, and if you lose you lose. Deal with it. I know I do.

Once again, people who are looking at this in terms of time/peak/offpeak/nightcapping/etc are in the wrong state of mind. The time doesn’t matter, the situation is what matters. Who gives a flying kitten what time of day it is, if you are taking an objective with 20 people against 30-40, how is that worth as much if later on that 30-40 takes something from 10 of you?

Time is merely something people are using to put labels on the scenarios, it is not the end-all-be-all for the discussion.

Quick Mouse.7635:

I find it funny how many people are complaining about nighttime players and how “they don’t put in any effort to cap things that require 100000xs the effort during primetime.” I’m pretty sure 90% of these people have never even played outside their timezone. Sure there may be less people on, but that doesn’t mean the nighttime players have it easy.
Have you ever tried to stop 3 simultaneous golem rushes on 3 different maps with only 20-30 people? I can tell you it’s not easy. I am a primetime player but on a few occasions I have stayed up late playing with SEA/EU players. They fight just as hard as anybody during primetime. You just don’t see it.

I am afraid you have totally missed the point, most (not all but, most) people are campaigning for the scoring to be modified to account for the difficulty of the task, or rather to account for the scoring to be inline with the population of that particular period in time.

Things like: off-peak, primetime, NA/EU/SEA/OcX, nightcapping, etc…Are all essentially being used (again by most not all) as simply examples or qualifying comments.

The truth is no one really cares when “primetime” is, throw time out of the argument totally, get rid of the notion in terms of the real issue.

I do not think anyone is discounting the efforts of the nighttime players on any server, but the fact remains that in the current system, having a population disparity is a huge advantage, once that is not readily made up by any measures usually (short of recruiting to fill that disparity).

Mogar.9216:

comes down to fairness. If a keep took 50 people 2 hrs to take it should worth more than the same keep taken by 3 person. Yes I have taken keeps with 1 golem and 3 players a few times in the morning. I really don’t think my 10 mins of pvd with 2 friends is the same kitten people at 8pm est working 2 hrs to take the same keep.

You SEA player keep whining about how your effort should count as much as prime time players. The fact is you fail to see that right now your effort is worth WAY MORE than NA players. It is the NA prime time players who are getting shafted because their hard work counts for little in wining a match up.

That pretty much sums it all up in a nice neat package.

It is not about locking players out of WvW for playing off-peak, but it should be valued according to the difficulty of the task. PVDoor with handful of people against no one, should not be rewarded as much as a 20v20 take on the same objective that is distinctly more difficult. NO MATTER WHAT TIME OF THE DAY.

Also what is quoted above is correct: people are too focused on their off-peak capping being devalued, the problem exists now where there is A TON MORE value in being an off-peak player on a server than there is being a primetime player. This gets even more lopsided the further you go down in server ranks, to the point where if you are even slightly competitive during the NA prime (for example) having good overnight/early morning coverage can essentially win a matchup.

While leagues had many positives (debatable) and many negatives (debatable but more personally believable from me), one they did seem to do is:

Either they made WvW beyond/outside of leagues seem not as important (IE: because it is not leagues) or they totally burnt people out of WvW (that aren’t 100% WvW to begin with).

nikitnq.7143:

Ragnar.4257:

nikitnq.7143:

Ragnar.4257:

nikitnq.7143:

Ragnar.4257:

nikitnq.7143:

Jaxs.5830:

nikitnq.7143:

No thanks, I like it the way it is.

Before you accuse me of <insert nasties for night-cappers here>…

• Sieged up assets, checked.
• Run dollies, checked.
• Pay for upgrades, checked.
• Died contesting cap from a zerg, checked.

Also,

• Lost fully upgraded camp, checked.
• Lost T3 sieged tower, checked.
• Lost sieged keep with WP, checked.

It’s WVW. An eternal 24/7 battleground. Keep it that way.

The current system makes WvW an entirely uncompetitive environment. It makes PPT a meaningless measuring stick of success. It makes for boring, stale meta that will not sustain itself in the long run. Glad you are enjoying it.

Sorry you feel that way but to me this is a game. Not an Olympic sport.

I do not need to have other people be deprived of certain things so I can have a larger slice of cake.

TYVM.

Who is being deprived of what, exactly?

Can you actually point to a sentence, can you quote it?

Or are you just making stuff up in your head?

Read the OP.

So you can’t find a quote.

Got it.

Maybe you should read it too.

Right. So the onus is not on the party demanding change to cover all angles.

Got it too.

I sure am glad none of these people are game designers for A-Net.

You said OP is trying to penalize off peak players.

I call you out on that, saying he infact isn’t asking for that. I ask you to show me where he does ask for that.

You then decide not to persue that, not to show me it. Because you can’t.

Then you go off on some tangent

---

You, sir, have lost.

Lol.

I don’t have to. I’m confident people at A-Net aren’t ignorant. Hence, I can safely assume they can see the glaring flaws of what is proposed here and simply ignore these “suggestions”.

With all due respect, the system that you and by extension of your logic ANET is promoting only has two real fixes and one separate conclusion if you find yourself on a server that suffers from a coverage issue:

1. Recruit/buy guilds/players from another server, which could possibly create coverage issues with said server.
2. Leave your server in search for “greener pastures”.
3. (Conclusion) PPT means absolutely nothing in its current form, it is not a measure of skill but rather a measure of coverage. Therefore if you cannot/will not recruit players from another server, and are not willing to transfer, then you can only come to grips with the fact that PPT is a garbage metric.

Once you arrive to this level of understanding it quickly becomes apparent (to many people) that something needs to change.

You just think ANET’s servers are bogged down now….