Guild Wars 2

Klawlyt.6507:

styx.7294:

I think you may be fishing for things to be depressed about as concerning WvW. What they title their patches is hardly somethin to lose sleep over =) (other things though…)

I’m really not. I really really want to believe that ANet is committed to WvW, but signs keep pointing the other way. Like for example, this came out today…

I AM POSTING A VIDEO THAT HAS GOTTEN OTHERS BANNED FROM THE FORUMS. I WILL ALSO GET BANNED FOR POSTING THIS!

Oh, nice, look at that. I’m over this game… now.

styx.7294:

I think you may be fishing for things to be depressed about as concerning WvW. What they title their patches is hardly somethin to lose sleep over =) (other things though…)

I’m really not. I really really want to believe that ANet is committed to WvW, but signs keep pointing the other way. Like for example, this came out today…

Zephyrus.9680:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Klawlyt.6507:

• Ruins of Power in WvW – The first real, meaningful change to WvW that wasn’t just a fix.

Actually they are a replacement for the orb mechanic, so it’s kind of a fix.

Rehash of an already proven broken mechanic.

Look, I know! I’m not crazy about the re implementation of the buff itself, but that’s not the point of this thread. there are enough of those already.

While the buff isn’t new, there are still the actual map modifications. Those are honest-to-god additions, especially compared to boss behavior changes. I’m not here to discuss the quality of the changes, merely the fact that even when WvW gets more quantity than PvE, PvE still gets the headline.

So… I just got around to reading the interview (no, I don’t come to the lore forums often enough.) But, i just wanted to say that I tossed this up on the forum 10 months ago.

Klawlyt.6507:

I know magic, and how it relates to Professions, isn’t the most fleshed out area lore-wise in GW2, but I do recall a video or interview prelaunch where Ree danced around the idea that sometimes it just happens. You are so into the idea of defending the weak that you slowly start becoming a guardian. You’re such a good pickpocket that eventually, you learn to just blend so well you’re basically invisible. I think she may have also referred to institutions of learning, like elementalist school or something, but I’ve seen no evidence of this in game. So let’s just say that most of the time, the difference between myself and Farmer Joe is that I was either strong willed enough to develop a capital P Profession, or Grenth decided to bless me (or Raven, or the Eternal Alchemy, or whatever) and gave me some predestined mark to be awesome at stealing.

I think it’s safe to call every profession “magic” to some extent or another, even the more physical ones (engineers have their elixirs, thieves can stealth and shadowstep, warriors can hulk up at the point of near-death). So what if ammo is magic? Not all ammo in Tyria. Farmer Joe still needs to use black powder and a ramrod each time he fires a flintlock, he hasn’t manifested a Profession. My Heroic-brand character however, can pop off 5 shots from his flintlock pistol and never even think about reloading. No one with a bow in this game has a quill, and rangers can rapid fire their bows with the best thief pistols (probably much faster, with barrage). What if that’s because there’s no physical ammo involved? What if my thief, by dint of having a Profession, doesn’t need to worry about these things, and shooting through pistols is just as natural as an elementalist hucking fireballs?

Glancing through the thread again, it didn’t look too popular at the time.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/Some-thoughts-on-magic-in-Tyria/first#post565929

Yeah, I’m with you. I’m not likely to need it any time soon, but I’m afraid ANet’s going to come up with a witty solution (to the dust, not ascended gear), so I don’t just want to toss it.

KOK.2650:

Klawlyt.6507:

In the spring I’ll get ESO, and I’ll play it as long as it doesn’t feel like a job, but I won’t be bitterly angry at Zenimax.

If you think ESO has no farming, you are in for a big surprise." Almost everything there involved farming" (from closed beta friends)

I get that, but Zenimax hasn’t been telling us that they’re going to do anything different. They haven’t been shoving “You don’t have to grind to get to the fun stuff” down my throat for a couple years.

Truth be told, I’ll also be getting it because I’ve been playing TES games since Morrowind, and because I have several RL friends who will be playing ESO no matter how much I’ve told them they should play GW2. Granted, I’ll probably burn out on ESO sooner or later, but what are the odds I’d still play GW2 on the side/after I’m done? Each new round of ascended gear makes that much less likely.

Long answer: I’m not a cat person. I don’t want to romp playfully across the battlefield. I don’t care how much of a hardass your charr thinks he is. Once he sheathes his sword and starts romping, I’m giggling.

Short Answer: The Searing.

XRKUN.1782:

There are many PvE kiddos out there just waiting to farm achievements, gold and so on. It doesnt matter if its not really new as long as you tell them its new. But to do so you cant give them complicated patch logs…no…you give them large, colorful pictures with a shiny name of their (new) farming object and all is good.
WvW players on the other hand are able to just read about changes concerning them.
So i dont think Anet is choosing one over the other but addressing the different player types as needed. Just enjoy the new update and dont worry about page 2 ranking.

I can’t disagree with anything in there. But still I kinda thought part of the WvW changes and leagues were to drum up some more interest in WvW. I guess it’s more like throwing a bone to those of us who already play.

“Well, I guess they can have 1 of our 39 updates this year…”

Bubbles.1047:

If only there was some type of token that dropped in WvW that could be traded in for gear…

Like a… WvW… currency? This is madness!

Fuzzion.2504:

DevonCarver.5370:

While it is very unlikely we would put supply runs in straight up like this, it is very likely something of this nature will make its way into the game in the future. I too think there would be a serious value to allowing supply to be strategically moved by players. One note is that we would not likely set it up such that players could pull supply from a depot and move it to another directly, because that would almost definitely create some serious conflict and open the door to griefing and sabotage even more than it already is. It’s definitely on the table though.

@Devon, this is the right direction. Also Devon and Mike, ESOL beta stress tests is revealing that GW2 has nothing to worry about in terms of RvRvR(WvWvW)

Are we just talking stress tests, like it isn’t being pulled of technically? Or in a grander “their RvR is just crap” kind of way?

You know? I honestly believed that next weeks’ update was going to be called Bloodlust in the Borderlands. We knew of 2 things coming in the next patch, a revamp of pre-existing PvE content, and the biggest update to WvW since… ever. I naively thought this would be THE WvW update.

Instead, Tequatl gets all the ink, figuratively speaking. One more sign that ANet’s crowd aren’t us.

The update page has 4 bullet points

• LFG Tool – admittedly more PvE focused, but still applicable to WvW, somewhat. Still this is 1 for PvE

• Ruins of Power in WvW – The first real, meaningful change to WvW that wasn’t just a fix.

• Bosses Updated – Tequatl et al. PvE all the way.

• Flame Ram Mastery – Not the most exciting, but still, it’s a WvW update.

So in short, it’s a 50/50 split on updates to PvE vs WvW (really sorry, PvP folks!), and STILL rehashed PvE content is a better message to market than NEW WvW.

We know WvWers are in the minority. ANet knows WvWers are in the minority. Now we know ANet knows.

disclaimer: I know not everyone is thrilled about the implications of the map change. That is not what this thread is about.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Other people will still be playing when you go to ESO.

This game for me, only thing I really like is WvW. Pve is kind of junk, problem is the classes design. Eventually I’ll find another game that meets my needs. Everyone will but there will still be others that play this game.

Some people really like some stuff for a long time, I get bored with doing the same thing over. It won’t be gear that kills the game for me, it will be the WvW maps remaining the same. I do realize that they take time to make, but when 3 of 4 maps are the same, I’m getting kind of bored.

I would much rather they devote resources to other stuff, new maps, than to adjust ascended. I don’t believe that they will make everyone happy with the gear.

People would have kept playing though november, when grinders when back to WoW.

So basically we’re in the same boat, you just happen to also enjoy crafting. Because I don’t really do much besides WvW in this game.

I don’t really mind the limited maps in WvW. Football players only get 1 field. Even LoL still only has 1 map for each game type. Few people realize how long it must have taken to make both maps, because they are pretty tightly tuned. I’m not saying flawless, but in a year, they haven’t actually had to change terrain because of things like unforeseen siege placement. It would have been nice to see a reskin by now… or some evidence that the WvW team has enough people on it to be called a team.

Anyway, it doesn’t matter. Devon already said that he doesn’t want to invalidate PvE farmers’ PvE farming. I know where WvW stands. Right at the bottom.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

No MMO will ever be able to please everyone all the time. There will always be people that are going to be unhappy with some decision.

But that’s my sticking point here as well. I’m not totally against the idea of gear progression in any video game ever. When the game launched with no gear progression, that was my argument to the WoWheads. “Sorry, I guess this isn’t the game you were looking for.” But ANet made the mistake of trying to please everybody. They did a complete 180. Now there’s not enough progression to keep those that need it happy, and there’s far too much for the folks who expected there to be none.

In the spring I’ll get ESO, and I’ll play it as long as it doesn’t feel like a job, but I won’t be bitterly angry at Zenimax. I won’t be angry because they never told me they weren’t going down that road. They’ve alluded to a bit more horizontal progression than is typical, but they didn’t boldly proclaim in a freakin’ manifesto that this time, things are going to be different. You know who writes manifestos? People starting revolutions! You know what ANet did less than 3 months from launch? Shut up and get back in line.

I know I should be playing more to keep up with the gear treadmill, but each day I’m more likely to hop on steam than GW2 lately. In the past week, I can safely say that my GW2 time is down ~50%.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Klawlyt.6507:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Seigfried.5938:

LilMcGinley.3890:

Seigfried.5938:

LilMcGinley.3890:

Also, let’s downscale Exotic to rare because that’s unfair. Don’t stop there? Ok, next let’s downscale rare to masterwork because those are cheaper! Still too much grind? Ok, I’ll take those masterworks down to Fine.

Not everyone can afford ascended items. Exotics are easily obtainable. Your logic is completely flawed.

Yes. I do want ascended downscaled.

Not everyone can afford Exotics. Downscale them too

Who can’t afford exotics? Can easily buy a set with badges/tokens. Please tell me.

And I can easily get ascended. It really isn’t that hard and doesn’t take very long. No reason that you can’t either. Even if you do have to craft it, it doesn’t take that long.

Is that because your crafting was already at 400?

Play preference. I like to have one character that can craft everything that one character is allowed.

Not my problem if people don’t care to do the same. It is really easy.

Getting a full set of weapons will take a bit of time for me, but it isn’t going to take that long. Just need to gather the mats and with some champ farm, can buy them also. Not my problem if people don’t want to do PvE. Sometimes you have to do stuff that you don’t care to do to get what you want.

Yeah, in every other MMO ever. GW2 was marketed as an escape from that. If I had to play through all of each Call of Duty’s single player mode before I could play the parts I actually want to play, I’d never play CoD, either. If I had already been playing a CoD game for a year, and they added a new weapon that could only be acquired through doing something in the campaign, I’d be kitten ed.

So basically, your play preference includes a lot more PvE than mine does. That’s fine. Some of us never had any interest in crafting. Crafting wasn’t mandatory to achieve peak performance before this patch, and as soon as it was announced that the patch was coming, the market went nuts. And because I didn’t spend all of august in the Queen and Scarlet’s Grind-O-Rama, I’m a little behind.

Sometimes in life you can buy the things you can’t make yourself. There’s no such thing as a soulbound toyota. GW2’s economy used to be like that.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Seigfried.5938:

LilMcGinley.3890:

Seigfried.5938:

LilMcGinley.3890:

Also, let’s downscale Exotic to rare because that’s unfair. Don’t stop there? Ok, next let’s downscale rare to masterwork because those are cheaper! Still too much grind? Ok, I’ll take those masterworks down to Fine.

Not everyone can afford ascended items. Exotics are easily obtainable. Your logic is completely flawed.

Yes. I do want ascended downscaled.

Not everyone can afford Exotics. Downscale them too

Who can’t afford exotics? Can easily buy a set with badges/tokens. Please tell me.

And I can easily get ascended. It really isn’t that hard and doesn’t take very long. No reason that you can’t either. Even if you do have to craft it, it doesn’t take that long.

Is that because your crafting was already at 400?

DevonCarver.5370:

Doing so would invalidate the time people spend acquiring that gear. I think the heart of your post is in the right place, but what we would rather do is make possible for people to get the gear by playing WvW with a sprinkling of PvE, rather than the other way around.

So… crafting from 0-500… that’s a sprinkling?

“We don’t want you to have to grind to get to the good stuff. We want a sprinkling of grind to get to the good stuff. " That’s what the manifesto says, right?

Istaf.1953:

So, in my opinion, to say there isn’t skill in WvW is flat out wrong.

As I’ve said a hundred times, the only people who think zerg warfare is mindless, are the folks who mindlessly follow zergs.

DevonCarver.5370:

Doing so would invalidate the time people spend acquiring that gear. I think the heart of your post is in the right place, but what we would rather do is make possible for people to get the gear by playing WvW with a sprinkling of PvE, rather than the other way around.

Putting ascended weapons in the game at all invalidates the ~2 years prior to launch when I was telling everyone who would listen that Guild Wars 2 really was going to be a different kind of MMO.

Yes, wind it back, get rid of it. Give me back the GW2 I thought I was getting.

I’m all for this idea. It gives large groups one more thing to juggle/ split up for. It doesn’t really change the rate at which supply is created, assuming you can’t do one of these supply runs if there’s no supply in the depot.

The only real drawback I can see is it makes sup griefers’ job even easier.

What if we just put the commander icon before their name in team chat? That way it’ll pop a little more, but not be a license to spam the middle of my screen. I suggest this only because no one uses squad chat.

JQ’s full of commanders who run on public TS, though generally with their guilds. I ran guildless on JQ for about a month, and one guild was kindly enough to basically absorb me after I had run with them on several resets. We have several commanders who put having fun right up there with success, for better or worse, but it’s always a good time. It’s definitely 18+ type humor though. We had a guildy recently suggest we have a drunk raid night. A leader responded with “Yeah, it’s called reset.” What the fellow said above about EU coverage, or lack thereof, was pretty accurate though.

Praise Jedsus!

Swamurabi.7890:

Why do YOU assume that BP or YB is going to be put in a match with BG? College and pro teams in a football league don’t face every other team in their leagues.

I think he assumes that, because Devon has stated that every server will face every other server in their league at least once.

Ok, so it’s not about smacking AI bots around, it’s about the one thing that’s less interesting than that. I’ve SEEN those maps. They are amazing. I’ve also read Goldfinger before. It doesn’t mean I like reading it all the time.

And ok, good. You enjoy going back out to PvE. You shouldn’t really have any complaints then? You still never said why that should be the way it is. You just said you have less of a problem with the current system than I do. That’s fine, but it doesn’t do much to justify why I should have to farm nodes in PvE.

And organized zerging is a bit more than just spamming 1, but even if it wasn’t there would be a lot of people spamming 1. There’s a lot of damage flying around, and 5-10% of a lot is still a lot. WvW is all about little things adding up to big things, and the better equipped zerg is going to have a decent advantage. That doesn’t sound like “skill over time played”. This sounds like “time played over all”.

Do I still sound entitled?

Jinks.2057:

Ok I was recently forced into a hiatus away from thread here.

I noticed that Anet stopped touching this thread…..w/e I guess we going to have to wait until its live for full disclosure

:(

Devon doesn’t do 3rd and 4th pages, man.

SonOfKrypton.4357:

Neeho.3859:

Assuming someone’s playstyle based on a few sentences is idiotic.

Back on topic, why are you guys against wvw having similar rewards to pve? What is it about wvw’ers not having to go to pve to get gold/loot/gathers they need that upsets you so? Am I missing something?

I think it’s the case of people who exclusively play WvW having this sense of entitlement where they think that just because they don’t want to play PvE that they should get all the perks exclusive PvEers get as well.

I just feel that if someone is in the mindset that they can’t leave the confines of Eternal Battlegrounds to go and farm a node in a PvE map then they straight out don’t deserve the rewards that come with it.

I would understand completely if gathering nodes was exclusive to dungeons or something and you didn’t want to go and do a dungeon, but gathering is literally exactly the same in every map except in WvW you can get attacked by a player whilst doing so.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a WvWer ask for everything you can get in PvE. Most avid WvWers (folks who play this game primarily for WvW) just want WvW to be self-sustaining. It’s not so much that we want the sun and the moon and the stars, we just want to not have to PvE to be able to WvW. Every time we ask for just a little bit more, for some reason folks always come out and tell us that there’s no way WvW should be anywhere near as rewarding as smacking AI bots around all day.

And you know what? That’s fine. Smacking AI bot probably should be the most rewarding thing, because most of the folks who get off on smacking around AI bots aren’t it it for smacking AI bots. They’re in it for the rewards. The problem comes when there’s so much disparity between PvE and WvW that the WvWers have to mindlessly smack around AI bots just to be able to afford to go back to having the kind of fun they’re interesting in.

And what are the rewards we don’t deserve because we don’t want to come play PvE, exactly? Do we not deserve BiS gear? Is that what you’re getting at?

On the other hand, do you know what rewards we get in WvW that you don’t get in PvE? Nothing. Soon, we’ll have a finisher. Woo.

How would you feel if WvW was mandatory for anything PvE related? (Yes, I know you have to do a tour of all 4 maps once, for one thing. That’s not the same as actually playing WvW) What if you had to play WvW for an hour each day to be viable at PvE? How pleased would you be?

TL;DR Almost no one wants absolute parity between PvE and WvW rewards. We just want WvW to be self sustaining. And yes, that means increasing the rewards somewhat.

Just finished watching it, and I’m retiring from the ascended debate. I’m still not sure I take what Colin said as absolute truth, but it sounds like that’s the official line from now on. So be it.

My parting words on the topic: I was a much bigger fan of ANet’s mistake than I am of their solution.

In regards to the rest of the interview, Colin said a lot of good things that they’d like to do, but it’s awfully frustrating that ANet rarely says what they actually ARE doing at any given moment. Basically everything Matt brought up was met with “yeah, we’d like to do it someday… and when we do do it, it’s gonna be AWESOME!”

styx.7294:

I think the lack of fights/population on the lower tiers definitely makes us poorer, haha. I’ll pop like 8 silver worth of consumables and have 2 fights against players before the buff runs out sometimes.

What I’ve heard that I liked is making the rank chests be rares. That’s only a start though. How are the league rewards gonna work anyway? Do the PvE only players get rewards? People who log into WvW once that season? Can I get a chest every time someone kills the Shatterer?

I believe I read somewhere that there will be a WvW meta achievement through the season, and the reward to for the meta achievement will be tied to your server’s rank at the end. Hopefully, that means even the lowest rank in each league should get something worth having. Hopefully…

Nike.2631:

Klawlyt.6507:

Do you really think siege, which is not only inexpensive to purchase, and acquired regularly while playing WvW, is anything like a weapon with a time gate and a grind requirement?

And besides, Guild Wars 2 is about having fun, not preparing to have fun.

You’re making my exact point. Buying siege is preparing to have fun WvW. Heck, getting up to 80 is preparing to have fun in WvW. Certainly getting fully loaded out with Exotics is preparing to have fun in WvW. I’m guessing 20-30 dailies for the Ascended amulet counts as preparation if you’re concerned about BiS as a necessity for having fun in WvW.

There is now another way to prepare. The weapon is nothing new in this regard.

Or acknowledge that BiS is not necessary to have fun in WvW, and get back to playing.

I hate hate hate it when people compare leveling to power creep. We knew where the goalposts were before launch. It was also heavily implied that the goalposts weren’t going anywhere any time soon. Instead, they moved less than 3 months after launch. (Side tangent, I really would love to play an MMORPG without levels. I think it could work. GW2 was not maerketed as having no leveling, however. It was marketed has having no gear grind/power creep)

As for acquiring siege, it wouldn’t be a problem if there were a bit more parity between PvE rewards and WvW rewards. As it stands, there are plenty of threads on that topic, and I’ve weighed in before. WvW CAN be a real drain on your gold, but that’s not what this particular topic is about. The actual act of purchasing siege? That’s nothing. That’s walking up to a vendor and spending the currency of your choice. And I would be fine if ascended gear worked the same way.

And yes, I detest ALL ascended gear in ALL its forms. It’s just that weapons have the largest impact because of their damage stats, and they’re the current one to be dissected. We’ve beat how terrible the other ascended bits are to death. Nothing has changed.

kingcragus.6810:

Y’all need to get off you high horses and just go to PvE an hour a session. PROBLEM SOLVED.

Yeah, that sounds pretty in line with “play[ing] the way you want to play” and “not having to grind for a future fun reward”. You’re right sir, problem solved indeed.

Nime.2089:

Just my opinion, but I think it’s just right that they don’t reward anything that is not fun doing…

I’m guessing you haven’t noticed that last two LS updates then.

Seriously though. Originally siege would disappear after 15 min of disuse. ANet wisely bumped that up to an hour. They could have made it an hour without hitting anything, but they just made it easier to babysit.

As for the orange swords, you know there’s a way around that, yeah? That’s why the smart zergs don’t PvD until they’ve been scouted. So long as no one knows you’re banging on the door, continue to do so with just the siege, and you don’t pop swords.

Plus, a huge, longstanding complaint is that WvW rewards offense much more than defense. I think this would be one tiny step toward rewarding defensive play a little better.

Zeldain.5710:

Vayne.8563:

The more you focus on a legendary, the worse the game will be for you.

That’s not a very good end game then… when ArenaNet specifically talked about Legendaries being the end game.

For many players, getting to 80 and completing the zones is the whole game… what more for them is there to do, besides this?

Actually, they said “endgame begins at level 1” in reference to that fact that they didn’t want pre-level cap and post-level cap to feel like two different games, as is the case in many MMOs. What legendaries were put in the game for, is for the folks who like to have something to grind for. And, as originally implemented, they carried no advantages. They were just shinnies for folks who like shinnies. Now, there are advantages to having one… but that’s neither here nor there.

fellyn.5083:

No one is going to be maxing their luck any time soon.

If the thread on reddit is right it will take in the neighborhood of 4.2 million luck to reach 300% mf.

Roughly, with current prices on various things ranging from ectos to greens that’ll cost around 12000g.

That should give you some idea for how long it’s gonna take to max your magic find.

Ahhh, I hadn’t realized it was non-linear. I dunno why that didn’t occur to me. Maybe because levels themselves scale linearly (in terms of time, not literal xp requirements).

Yeah, I’m on JQ. I don’t want to be rewarded for it.

Besides, most folks on lower tier servers justifiably complain about their servers’ wvw being even less rewarding, with less people to kill.

I believe Devon said they will be reset at the beginning of the season. Shame They can’t be rest more than twice a year though.

Xista.7391:

Pretty sure a guild on my realm has a guild tax every week (something small, like 2-3g).

They pay people in their guild a few gold an hour to scout.

That’s a great idea if you can get your guild to do it, but I’m betting not many guilds would/could go for that. If there were a mechanic built right into the game, I’m betting it would be much less debatable.

BTW, are you the Xista of Gamebreaker/Train Simulator fame?

I think of even bigger concern, is when the majority of the population have 300% or close to it, won’t ANet be balancing loot/the economy with that in mind? At that point, we may as well have MF 0%… which would have been cool with me from the outset.

Nike.2631:

Are siege weapons bad for WvW?

Because near as I can tell those favor the well-prepared too.

Do you really think siege, which is not only inexpensive to purchase, and acquired regularly while playing WvW, is anything like a weapon with a time gate and a grind requirement?

And besides, Guild Wars 2 is about having fun, not preparing to have fun.

offence.4726:

The stat difference make the new ascended weapons not worth crafting to be perfectly honest. I tried comparing pistol – pistol and the + you get on a berserker’s piece is like :
- + 4 power ;
- + 3 precision ;
- no difference in crit percentage between them ;
- + an infusion slot ;
Only thing that added more to the ascended is the increased dmg by very little.

All in all very dissapointed and expected atleast some buffed stats making these weapons worth it. Atm it doesnt.

You can get this percentage up with bloodlust stacks , food buffs I really dont get the point of these ascended its a huge grind and not worth it for the stats overall. WvW dont sweat it the dmg will be the same.

But what about the actual damage output? IIRC, the daggers’ upper limit was only bumped up by 10, but I believe the lower limit was closer to a difference of 25. That means that average damage output should still be noticeably higher. Does anyone have any data on this yet?

And even if it’s still a tiny bump, remember, WvW all about a bunch of tiny things adding up to big things.

Dutchares.6084:

Btw i think being a scout and guarding (standing still) inside a keep are 2 different things.

A scout should follow/stay near the enemy zerg and report the direction they going.
Being able to waste/take supplies in not defendable towers/keeps and taking supply camps just before the enemy zerg gets there. Will make the enemy zerg run out of supplies real fast or slow them down waiting for the camp buff dissapears.
So a real big advantage.. and even doable when outnumbered.

You’re not wrong, but on my server at least, (JQ) everyone calls the folks who watch the towers scouts for whatever reason. So that’s the terminology I went with. The kind of scout who actively scouts the enemy could use rewards too, of course, but I rarely do that duty, so I’m not as aware of their needs.

Of course, it really could just be the same system. Realistically, if tweaked well, this system could apply to scouts, guards, siege runners and any of the other passive-but-needed roles. I know it would still be abusable, but at least there’s the human element controlling it. A commander needs to consent that the scout really is scouting in order to receive the reward. Within the framework of a guild, I think it’s likely ro see much more “good” use than “evil” use.

And yeah, in many locations the tower guard kind of scout can park it in one spot and just refresh siege once an hour. Like in the NE and NW towers. You can stand in one spot and see the switchbacks and the northern path, and that’s all you need to see, assuming you already have garri, and someone’s watching it. Draw distance won’t let you see the valley below (or more specifically, players who are there), so you get every thing covered in one spot. Keep guards generally can hoof it around to multiples doors of course.

MrRuin.9740:

A tired MMO gear-driven endgame with a new gradual-paced face that only affects people without Legendaries? Yes.
Innovative? No.

This guy knows.

I’m off to bed.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

provided you have enough gold a craft can be mastered in an hour…

I being an MMO veteran going all the way back to Ultima Online, saw this game as something that was aesthetically pleasing and as something that would suit the “collector” in me. I bought the game the weekend after launch.

Were you shocked to find the game seemed to have no vertical progression past level cap, or did you know that going in?

I have 41g in my wallet right this minute, and over half of that came from doing the invasion meta achievement for a tonic that it turned out I can’t use in WvW. It was mind numbing. Also, I have some delusion about affording a commander pin some day.

So, if you’re a collector anyway, why do you need arbitrary number increases? This game was full of stuff to collect that didn’t affect stats or competitiveness. Minis, dyes, skins, achievements, titles… It sounds like you’re capable of setting your own goals, why do you feel you need ANet to do it for you?

And in response to the statement that the stats are tiny, so why bother? on that other thread having the exact same conversation as this one: Yes, the stat increase is small, but the name of the game in WvW is small things adding up to big things. Any one player can’t carry enough supply to build anything, but players working together can get siege up in no time. Any one tower isn’t enough to change the score by much, but the aggregate of your holdings across all maps determine your score added per tick. One tick isn’t much compared to the overall score, but the overall score is built tick by tick.

One guy’s subpar stats might not be enough to change the course of battle, but the army with better equipment statnds a much better chance than the army with subpar equipment. The devil is in the details, as they say.

Shadow.3475:

Klawlyt yes but when it get attacked you fight (get points) so it is the off time were you stand in a tower for 1hour and nothing happens you should get some reward.

No argument there, but your system still lets afkers be rewarded regardless of if they warn anyone. With the current system, commanders generally check in with their scouts anyway, so there’s still check on that. Though admittedly, adding an exception for what the squad is doing at the tower you’re scouting is probably a good idea.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Klawlyt.6507:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Gehenna.3625:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

So… you are quitting over something that hasn’t happened yet… makes sense to me!

If you’re in a bus that is slowly headed for a ravine, would you get off the bus or stay in because falling into the ravine hasn’t happened yet?

Ok so what ravine… again NO ONE on these forums has been able to point out a single bit of content (other than fractals) that requires you to use Ascended… ALL content can be completed with exotics and even rares… so please tell me again how Ascended affects every day game play?

WORLD VERSUS WORLD.

Some of us like our competitive play to be… what’s the word? Competitive?

Pssssssst… I am guessing you didn’t read Dulfy’s notes or watch the livestream… it’s ok… the mats will drop in WvW too…

Heh yeah, just like rares. It’s pretty common knowledge that playing WvW is like swimming in uncle scrooge’s money bin. And besides that, crafting wasn’t required of me before today. Starting today it will be, so now I’ve got to try to level crafting from nothing in a market full of people trying to level up crafting. Either way, it sounds like I’m grinding for a future fun reward, and not having fun. So, when did you buy GW2, and under which pretenses?

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Gehenna.3625:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

So… you are quitting over something that hasn’t happened yet… makes sense to me!

If you’re in a bus that is slowly headed for a ravine, would you get off the bus or stay in because falling into the ravine hasn’t happened yet?

Ok so what ravine… again NO ONE on these forums has been able to point out a single bit of content (other than fractals) that requires you to use Ascended… ALL content can be completed with exotics and even rares… so please tell me again how Ascended affects every day game play?

WORLD VERSUS WORLD.

Some of us like our competitive play to be… what’s the word? Competitive?

Gehenna.3625:

Yep, looks like we agree more than we realised so we can instantly bury that hatchet.

It’s a bad compromise indeed and I just wish they’d never gone this way. How do you feel about their intended level cap raise then, because they also said that was coming?

I’m still not thrilled about it, but IIRC, we were at least warned about that prelaunch. I had already accepted it at inevitable as part of the move to be more like a normal MMO, but not likely to happen more than once a year. A level cap raise by itself wouldn’t have been terrible, but coupled with the pace of ascendeds coming out, I fear it will just be one more step in the regularly scheduled power creep that ANet have resigned to.

Chuo.4238:

Snip

This guy… this guy knows.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Klawlyt.6507:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Seriously? I mean SERIOUSLY? I just don’t understand all the QQing that happens in MMOs these days! What the hell has happened to MMO society that you all have this sense of self entitlement? Why must it be I want this NOW or I am going to pitch a cry baby tantrum? God FORBID you have to WORK for something?

Do you walk into a work environment with ZERO experience DEMANDING that you be given a management position IMMEDIATELY?

NO!

So why in the world would you expect the best things in a game to be any different? SERIOUSLY?!

Maybe it’s a generational thing… I started with UO the EQ and many more after that… and before you all start talking about oh here he goes with his uphill both ways in the snow argument… no offense but… games used to be MUUUUUUCH harder… to the point that getting the best things would put most of the GW2 community into the fetal position whimpering for their momma…

I EXPECT to have to work to get what I want and by god I do just that… grow up and get over it… put on your big boy pants and spend the, OH NO, two weeks it takes to craft your ascended weapons… Jesus even when I say that it makes me laugh…

First off, I have a place were I have to work. It’s called my JOB. Video games are the thing I do to make me not have to think about that.

Second, doesn’t anyone do their homework anymore? Don’t people know the type of game their buying before they buy it? The way I see it, you happened upon this game one of 3 ways:

You either 1) bought this game after November, either because you found out it had added post-level cap gear progression, or didn’t know anything about it prior.

2)Bought this game before November, knowing that the game was touted as not being dependent on a gear treadmill, but decided you could get in and “help change things for the better”

or 3) you bought the game before November, not know how this game had been marketed for the prior 3 years, and raged all over the place when you found out they had made this game for a bunch of lazy kittens who don’t appreciate a hard day’s grind.

I’ve played older MMO’s. They all burned me out when they started to look like a job. There are lots of people who have had the same experience, and many of them looked to GW2 for relief. I don’t play video games to earn thing. I play video games because they are fun. Having a level playing field (ie having a stable, easy to reach power plateau) is MY idea of fun. Because than I can focus on becoming a better player, and not merely having a better character.

Two weeks is not a grind… at all.. one tier does not make a treadmill… at all.. the majority of these mats are all from refining mats already available… which most people should have donkey loads of thanks to Crown Pavilion and Clockwork Chaos…

Just because somewhere some dev said no dear treadmill does not mean that they would NEVER add any better gear… it just means they won’t do it every 3-6 months like cough WoW cough… Have they? No. So I would suggest to everyone who has been QQing about two weeks to get an ascended weapon to grab a tissue, wipe their eyes, and man/woman up wor two weeks out of their gaming lives… Stop expecting the best things in life for free for god’s sake…

You’re missing the point. PvE AT ALL is a grind for me. I’m still here because of WvW. Where you don’t make jack or kitten. I’m not here to craft, I’m not here to watch numbers go up and make me feel like I’m accomplishing something. I’m here to play in a competitive environment. GW2, like it’s predecessor was built around a PvP centered combat system. I expected the game to keep a relatively balanced playing field. As the fellow above me said, I don’t want ascended gear now, I want it GONE.

I’m still curious under which of the three above scenarios you started playing the game. Care to share?

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Seriously? I mean SERIOUSLY? I just don’t understand all the QQing that happens in MMOs these days! What the hell has happened to MMO society that you all have this sense of self entitlement? Why must it be I want this NOW or I am going to pitch a cry baby tantrum? God FORBID you have to WORK for something?

Do you walk into a work environment with ZERO experience DEMANDING that you be given a management position IMMEDIATELY?

NO!

So why in the world would you expect the best things in a game to be any different? SERIOUSLY?!

Maybe it’s a generational thing… I started with UO the EQ and many more after that… and before you all start talking about oh here he goes with his uphill both ways in the snow argument… no offense but… games used to be MUUUUUUCH harder… to the point that getting the best things would put most of the GW2 community into the fetal position whimpering for their momma…

I EXPECT to have to work to get what I want and by god I do just that… grow up and get over it… put on your big boy pants and spend the, OH NO, two weeks it takes to craft your ascended weapons… Jesus even when I say that it makes me laugh…

First off, I have a place were I have to work. It’s called my JOB. Video games are the thing I do to make me not have to think about that.

Second, doesn’t anyone do their homework anymore? Don’t people know the type of game their buying before they buy it? The way I see it, you happened upon this game one of 3 ways:

You either 1) bought this game after November, either because you found out it had added post-level cap gear progression, or didn’t know anything about it prior.

2)Bought this game before November, knowing that the game was touted as not being dependent on a gear treadmill, but decided you could get in and “help change things for the better”

or 3) you bought the game before November, not know how this game had been marketed for the prior 3 years, and raged all over the place when you found out they had made this game for a bunch of lazy kittens who don’t appreciate a hard day’s grind.

I’ve played older MMO’s. They all burned me out when they started to look like a job. There are lots of people who have had the same experience, and many of them looked to GW2 for relief. I don’t play video games to earn thing. I play video games because they are fun. Having a level playing field (ie having a stable, easy to reach power plateau) is MY idea of fun. Because than I can focus on becoming a better player, and not merely having a better character.

Gehenna.3625:

I was not trolling at all. Just using satire to make a point. It’s not the same.

I do play another game where there is stat progression. My only gripe here is that Anet didn’t want to decide and made some horrible hybrid. My wish for GW2 was to have no tiers at all like GW1. Since they decided to go a half baked way I am not happy with it.

If anything I wish they never had introduced it to begin with. I am NOT asking for tiers in this game, I am just saying that the people who are so categorically opposed to it, don’t realise that leveling is very similar to gear progression. Leveling has gear progression by level and the gear and levels are needed to do higher level content. Please explain to me how this is so incredibly different?

I find it a kittenildish to call me uninformed, especially if you don’t even explain why.

So don’t just jump on my view as a rabid dog again simply because you have a different point of view, but try to actually think about this first. How is it so different? That’s what I want to know and if you make a good point, with argumentation, I will gladly accept it and learn from it, but if not, then I will understand you don’t actually have a point.

First off, I didn’t realize it was satire. In that case, I’d say we’re actually on the same side of the argument, if for slightly different reasons.

Second, i did explain why leveling, and post level-cap progression are two different things. At launch, a good chunk of the people who had been following the game thought that the goalposts were going to sit at 80, with reasonably easy to obtain exotics. At least for a good long time. In WoW, or ToR or any other “classical” MMO, there’s an expectation that the goalposts are going to be moved periodically. Some games get criticized for not doing it quickly enough. Folks like you and I, were not looking for those games.

And third, I s’pose you’re not among the uninformed, again, because I mistook your post for your genuine opinion. That doesn’t change the fact that the people who bought the game, got to 80, and started with the “OMG there’s nuthin to do here!” didn’t know what kind of game they were getting. But all those people were here, and were willing to spend money. So ANet gave them a reason to stick around and spend. And now the game I thought I was getting away from turned out to be exactly where I went.

And as I stated earlier, this whole state of compromise is ultimately a bad choice, I believe. I don’t think ascended gear goes far enough to make people who really do like WoW model happy, and it certainly ticks off the people who were trying to escape it. Ultimately, the only people who are content are the folks who don’t really have an opinion either way.