Ha! Another 1 jumping the bandwagon for easy mode. Coward. Oh well this game is about…..is meant to be about having fun so if thief dosnt give you fun any more then fair enough. But still of all classes you go DH :-/
He is just playing the game how it is supposed to be played. The few of us that still play thief are doing it wrong.
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
You realize this would enable people to ban Elite specializations which is akin to banning classes?
The only benefit this would have is to prevent class stacking. However, at the same time you can destroy the entire idea behind a team comp by banning Elite specializations (not to mention this forces people to “reroll” even if it just means they go for a vanilla specialization) and handicap team strategies by getting rid of an essential trait for their support class.
There are better ways to increase build diversity… sadly they require more effort then I think Arena.net is willing to put forth. There are too many absolutely useless utilities and sub-par trait lines. Necromancer has never been the top of the food chain but all of it’s trait lines are used even now with Reaper with shoehorns you into two. Similarly there is not one bad utility. All are useful – even Spectral Wall (though many seem to think it is terrible in sPvP).
In the next couple of months Arena.net needs to go back and take a look at all the vanilla traits and utility and bring them up to par… some will need complete overhauls (vanilla Warrior and Thief).
Respect you opinion, and that is my goal, to collect opinions about this matter. But banning 1 elite is not like destroyin the full class viability. Or are you saying that every class got only 1 build nowadays? In that case is due to Anet to create more viable options that don’t involve the use of only elites to be viable.
Thanks for the response.
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
Reaper with marauder amulet can dish up serious condi dmg , i can put up to 200 ticks of bleeding 200poison and up to 500 chill dmg +fear,warhorn will cc that revanant for sure since it will pass that 1-2 stcks of stability he has.
If you hit thim while he has that buble on him i really wonder how your team got where it is(i dont play"pro" but this is just comon seanse even in spvp)
Read revenant forum page or even better play it and then come back asking for nerfs.
Any kind of cc preasure will destory revenant
It is not that all skills are instant,most have cast time +energy cost
Only in herald is revenat able to spam skills ,the very moment he swaps to anything else its pain .
Even when he is blocking – marks are unblockable and reaper 4-5 will put so much condi on revenant he will never get out of it.
Staff #5 is dodgable or side -step unlees it is don right after shadow step in shiro
Mesmer> revenat
Engi>revenant
Reaper> revenat
Dh if traps are set up before and can insta replace them followed with Lb5>revenat
(other wise i beat DH if he has no traps prepared and off cd with rev. casue i will use those traps to heal with those skills you mentioned)
Good thief> afk/badrev(slow daze)
Good wr>rev(longer cc than rev on much lower cast time will do the job)
Only one that i really have no problem or have most success fighting with revenant are Druids.( Pew pew rangers are serious nuisance if the know wht they are doing)
I have also seen posts DH,Chrono,Reaper,Scraper is op that means that half of the classes are about just as balanced as they should be,its just ppl not knowing how to fight em.
Only thing i can say its OP 100%, is DH LB#5 with that stupid barrier i can only cry myself to death if i get cought in it.,now there is i skill i have not found counter play for,(unless u have stability rdy and of cd )
Fixed
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
Guardian do not use Longbow → Dragon Hunter does → Dragon Hunter requires to buy HoT → aka Longbow needs to appeal more → buff Dragon Hunter and Longbow so people in ESL use it over old builds
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
I know this matter was brought in before but I just want to see how the pvp comunity feels about it now.
With the new HoT Elites and the introduction very soon of the Leagues, we have now a total of 54 different Trait Trees accross the 9 classes, what about giving the possibility in Ranked for every team to ban 1 Trait Tree that the opposite team will have locked? 1 it’s just a random number out of my mind.
Pay attention I don’t want to make unviable every build but just to increase the build diversity a bit. And also I think that 1 trait tree out of a total of 54 will not make such a big difference.
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
Thanks for sharing your builds and opinions Caed. I can’t however, understand how you can say Thief is ‘fine’. I’m not a PvP god, but before HoT I could definitely hold my own playing Thief. Nowadays I feel completely useless. Can’t kill except in +1 situations, all I can do is run and decap. Now, this could be attributed to my skill level, but upon viewing some recordings of your streams I notice that you don’t get a lot of kills yourself. For a player with as much experience in this class as yourself, this can’t be a good sign? Maybe I’ve been watching the wrong recordings, or we differ in our views on the Thief’s roll.
I’ve tried different builds and playstyles for a couple of days, but nothing seems viable enough to warrant me spending time playing Thief. I’m beginning to feel like the concept of the Thief is flawed. It’s either too powerful, or too weak. It’s squishyness is not balancing out the massive damage it used to have when played right, because of it’s stealth and mobility. Take away/nerf the damage and all you have left is a squishy class that’s only strength is mobilty. This, I sadly conclude, is quite an accurate description of Thief’s current state.
I really hope I’m wrong.
I have a disclaimer but it’s fairly easily missed. I do not play the same in queues as I do in tournaments. Queues are usually just for fun, I mess around and I put myself in situations I wouldn’t in a competitive setting just to see certain situations and try to improve or pick up on things I can work on. Realistically speaking Thief match-ups are back to what they used to be somewhere in 2013. Things are fairly 50-50 across a lot of classes, with DH, Druid, and Tempest having advantages (5-95 or Higher, 15-85, 30-70 respectively) and Thief holding advantage over Reaper, Mesmer, and Warrior (75-25, 70-30, 95-5). Keep in mind these numbers are just estimates and more towards my interpretation. It’s almost always better to avoid 1v1 on Thief because you can out-rotate and attempt to snowball the map before your opponent can catch up.
Thief also holds a place in team fights. It has good survivability, can stick on targets, can get out of fights, can instant stomp, and has huge amounts of cleave. I don’t see it as overly squishy – I think Reapers, Dragonhunters (depends a little on their utilities), and Warriors are far easier to lock down and kill as a team under most circumstances. They have few options for escaping being trained in comparison to Thief.
So yea, I honestly think Thief is fine competitively. It’s not bad, it’s not the best – but it’s more than viable and brings some unique things (impact strike, mainly). If other classes get toned down it will be in a good spot. I don’t think it needs buffs, at all. I don’t want more power creep in the game because it’s a lot harder to balance at that point. I think the overall design of Daredevil is good, and the only thing I don’t like is staff 2 (Weakening Charge) due to it being extremely clunky.
I watched the qualifier matches for NA and seeing you play thief was nice to see tbh. Problem remains though is after I paid attention to your play in the matches I honestly don’t see what thief offers over the other classes. Yes you have SB5 for mobility but in the team fights you were a non factor compared to other available classes. I honestly got the impression that you would have contributed more on a different class.
It will be interesting to see how thieves actually hold up in pro league though.
Good luck
This! Caed is good at playing his build and his team play is perfect. But you got exactly my point of view.
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
Apparently “why thief is still missing the withdraw healing buff?” it’s not an “amazing question” that deserve so much attention by devs.
Honestly, it really isn’t a very interesting question. Sure it is probably something that should have been fixed, but thinking about the logic of your code is going to be FAR more interesting than changing some value.
I was ironic. It’s interesting how devs decide to fix and give attention at things only based on what is interesting for them and not on what is broken and need to be fixed.
Svanir\Chieften surely need attention but so is for withdraw, but they seem to give priority to anything else.
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
So you’re basing the viability of a class only upon the damage done by 1 weapon skill? Then warriors should be even in a better spot than thieves. Also I bet you’ll be downed even before a match start in pvp with that build. Screenshots prove nothing, show how you actually play that build vs the other elites.
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
Don’t you think that S/D is in a good spot now ? I feel like the combo infiltrator’s strike + fist flurry is a really high dammage burst, which was lacking on that set.
I find S/D lacking in usefulness. They don’t really bring very much. The reason staff works is that it provides AoE cleave with survivability. S/D has some evades but staff overshadows it with Staff Master returning endurance.
I feel like I’m having more success with d\p using your traits build. But I guess cos I’m fighting still few people with reveal. For you staff is still superior to D/P?
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
doesnt matter about the balance. if my build is inferior then its my problem and ill have to fight harder.
Yep but with official 1v1 arenas, it will become clear the unbalance issues this game is affected with. Devs don’t want that, so they can hide behind the statement that this game is balanced around 5v5 and teamplay.
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
Thieves are also still missing the 10% base healing power buff that Withdraw supposedly got in the June 23rd patch.
cuz it got stolen…
BA DUMM TSSS
That’s not all. That’s impressive how Devs lack comunication on this matter. That’s why I’m so angry. This is not something we would like to see implemented, this is something Devs wrote in their patch notes. The lack of comunication on this matter have no excuse. I would be fine even with a change of what is written in the patch notes, but not saying anything for over 4 months is the prove they don’t care. In the while they have fixed Improvisation in 2 days so that it can reset physical skill too, nerfing in this way every non hot thief.
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
leave my shadow’s embrace and Shadow’s Rejuvenation alone <.<
you might be ok entering and exiting stealth non stop. but i prefer to pick when i come out stealth. staying stealthed until i’m healed. (if i wanted to heal from stealth attack, i’d use the 15% crit heals from invigorating precision. if i stay in stealth, its cause i want to stay there longer to heal. not be forced to attack to heal. ditto for conditions)
i like thief for its long stealth.
otherwise i’d use mesmer.
Except Mesmers can stealth longer now
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
if camping downstate is what thief suppose to do, then yeah thief is fine~
If you spent as much time in the game as you do whining on forums you might actually improve.
Sorry but that is not even an argument. We have ESL and we have your opinion. ESL>>
So what you are claiming is, that Caed is not ESL-materiel? I think my respond would be a big fat "hmmmmm … ".
@Caed: Nice streams you have.
Well I’m watching esl and I’m counting how many thief are there. They are few and Caed is just one of them. Respect for his opinion tho but what about other 99% of the thief playerbase? Sizer did not so well and people started arguing that Sizer is not anymore a top player. I think that thief could be fine if all the other classes will be toned down a bit.
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
Are people reading the same patch notes? Nothing has changed. This wasn’t a balance update.
Its now less than 2 weeks before league starts, we were promised balance patches before every season and there isn’t the opportunity now for one before it starts. Which means no balance patch until next year.
This means I will spend my money on something else for christmass
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
1.
Thief is fine for PVP just as always it has been, their problem is the aids meta cause they rely on active defense which is hard to do in passive aids spam meta, i still feel DP shadowarts is viable.
2.
Warr has never been good at all, it has always lacked good PVP mechanics and always was carried by some cheese build be it hambow or shoutbow.
3.
There is always classes that are not meta picks, warrior and thief have been meta picks longer than any other class, get benched boiz. When warr will be without a single playable build as long as ranger was i will start caring… maybe
Trapper and spirit ranger were never viable?
Thief has always been picked up for Shortbow #5, but even a ranger had advantages fighting a thief 1v1.
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
compared to warriors thieves should be in heaven still
Warriors have been week for maybe a month or so.
Thief has been weak so long I can’t remember the last time they were even at an average level of strength.
Before 14 September 2012 – the date of the first thief nerf – then the hell has began with continuos nerfs and some fixes that actually were nerfs for thief.
Whilw fixes to thing like withdraw healing that could actually give a little hand to thieves never happen.
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
The devs wanted to just nerf the withdrawl CD without adding anything to it. They purposefully added the heal increased by 10% part so that people won’t think the nerf is so bad, but they are never going to give that 10%.
We deserve to be slapped in the face hard since we’re still playing this kitteng game afterall
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
are you kittening kidding me? thieves are the most overpowered and forgiving class at the moment
i dont know what more do you kittening want when each of your skills is a dodge, gap closer, cc, 10k dmg, you literally only have to spam one button and you even cry about it? rofl
imagine if you had to play another class
Thief is the strongest class vs n o o b s you know?
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
Also True Shot is Truly Unblockable. Not that it hits harder than Rapid Fire, not that it has shorter CD by half, but its also unblockable, exacly what we call balance.
The real question is how is this even justified compared to backstab, that requires stealth, hit from behind, crit, being in melee, can be blocked/blinded etc. and deals measy 3k dmg on average.
yeah but thieves are heavy armored, have stability, protection, blocks and above all 1200 range attacks…
oh wait…
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
no, thanks. atm I can clear condis every second in combat, why may I want to change it to 3 seconds?
because then you can clear on demand and not only when an enemy is attacking you. At higher lvls vs skilled player it won’t work better.
3 seconds cooldown is for making it on par with with shadow’s embrace. By the way it’s a matter of opinions. I still think that both SE and EA are subpar if you consider reveal and all the conditions thrown around nowadays.
First of all, I don’t use SA and SE accordingly. Second thing is that nowdays I have to dodge all the time. I also dodge on s/d 3. On Withdraw. On RfI. And now you say it would be better for me to get condi cleanse every 3 seconds instead of every 1 second.
if you spam dodge, you’re not using thief/daredevil well. That said, I don’t mind, if you’re happy having 1 of the few condition removal we got, depending on the enemy behavior, good luck with that. I don’t even use it cos sword #2 is far better.
I did not say I spam dodge. I dodge when I need to evade attack. And each time I evade attack I clean one condi. Double profit. Looks like you are the one who can’t handle with right dodge timing.
Don’t worry. When I realy need to dodge I do it. And when I need to remove a condition I do it aswell. It seems you like a trait that works when you don’t need to cleanse anything but just to dodge. Have fun fighting competent players.
WvW/PvE are the same thing for me, full of braindead people that spam AoE everywhere. There I can see why you want to have no cd on condi removal, cos mindless spamming dodge inside that AoE mess for cleansing condis it’s truly a skillfull play.
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
no, thanks. atm I can clear condis every second in combat, why may I want to change it to 3 seconds?
because then you can clear on demand and not only when an enemy is attacking you. At higher lvls vs skilled player it won’t work better.
3 seconds cooldown is for making it on par with with shadow’s embrace. By the way it’s a matter of opinions. I still think that both SE and EA are subpar if you consider reveal and all the conditions thrown around nowadays.
First of all, I don’t use SA and SE accordingly. Second thing is that nowdays I have to dodge all the time. I also dodge on s/d 3. On Withdraw. On RfI. And now you say it would be better for me to get condi cleanse every 3 seconds instead of every 1 second.
if you spam dodge, you’re not using thief/daredevil well. That said, I don’t mind, if you’re happy having 1 of the few condition removal we got, depending on the enemy behavior, good luck with that. I don’t even use it cos sword #2 is far better.
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
Thanks devs for balancing s/d thieves so well. That +1 dodge on daredevil seems a bit out of control tho. Clearly all thief playerbase is weak cos it’s full of n o o b s, sizer being one of them. Thief no needs buffs cos bs and vault hit for 22k and also perma stealth. Thief op nobrain class.
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
no, thanks. atm I can clear condis every second in combat, why may I want to change it to 3 seconds?
because then you can clear on demand and not only when an enemy is attacking you. At higher lvls vs skilled player it won’t work better.
3 seconds cooldown is for making it on par with with shadow’s embrace. By the way it’s a matter of opinions. I still think that both SE and EA are subpar if you consider reveal and all the conditions thrown around nowadays.
In WvW and PVE at least (I do not play PvP) EA and a purity sigil are generally enough to keep me condition free. It in fact clears conditions better then does stealth and SE. It works fine as is
.
The ability of EA and driven fortitude to cleanse/heal work BETTER against multiple enemies. A longer cooldown is a bad idea.
well my bad not to say it was referred to pvp. Talking about pve, this game do not need much balance fixes. In pve you can realy play the way you want, I still have to meet a content I cannot do with my thief. I thought it was clear that when we talk about how this game is unbalanced, we were referring to pvp.
Let’s make an exemple: in pvp I cannot wait for an enemy to attack me to cleanse those low duration/high dmg burning stacks, for the time it takes, those 3 seconds buring stacks are already expired dealing the max dmg.
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
no, thanks. atm I can clear condis every second in combat, why may I want to change it to 3 seconds?
because then you can clear on demand and not only when an enemy is attacking you. At higher lvls vs skilled player it won’t work better.
3 seconds cooldown is for making it on par with with shadow’s embrace. By the way it’s a matter of opinions. I still think that both SE and EA are subpar if you consider reveal and all the conditions thrown around nowadays.
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
that would be nice but i think this would make thief from being a class with very little/clunky condi clear to a class with an op condi clear which makes it mandatory for every build. unfortunately i cant think of a good middle way :/
Especially since DD lets you take your endurance bar for granted. In PvE I don’t even roll signet of shadows anymore on my DD, I just need dash, it’s freaking awesome, even in battle I rarely run out of endurance if I’m just even a tiny bit diligent, and if I do, signet if agility….a clear on dodge would make us immune to conditions
Adding an internal cooldown of 3 second won’t make it any more op than other class abilities.
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
https://youtu.be/qR5lFFJb6kA
This is my first video from the first gw2 beta weekend look at how revealed was non existent. I don’t know but even if the gameplay feels so bad, I miss that time were pvp was not only a big mess of AoE and CC.
Edit: I know it was OP not having cd on stealth but how much more funny it was compared to now
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
22k seems not true but I got hit for 8k in WvW by vault on my warrior with 2.8k Armor. The skill was an evade and done in stealth I also think its unblockable. Very Broken skill.
Good Job ANET at balancing have a medal.
First to OP: there’s combat log you know? Next time don’t rush to forum writing nonsense but take 2 seconds of your life for a screenshot so we can actually take you seriously.
#Warlord: vault can actually being blocked/interrupted with a good timing since the evade doesn’t last for the full skill animation. Also do you think it’s unblockable? How about checking the skill tooltip before posting false things on the forum?
I don’t understand what difference it makes. It’s in the same category as sword 3 on Rev. If you don’t like that I’m sorry. Whatever little counter play you claim the skill has it’s still very little.
I simply hate when ppl that clearly don’t know anything about thieves, that don’t even take a bit of their time to read skill tooltips before posting, not even trying by themselves what such skills actually do, well decide to come here and claim this or that skill is OP without any proof of their statements nor screenshots.
Want to know what an evidence realy is? check my screenshot!! But still I laughed at it and didn’t come here stating bersekers are OP cos I know they aren’t in the current state.
And that was taken in PvP where probably dmg is lower than WvW where foods and gears can make a huge difference.
Attachments:
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
look at how revealed was non existent. I don’t know but even if the gameplay feels so bad, I miss that time were pvp was not only a big mess of AoE and CC.