Guild Wars 2

choovanski.5462:

Omatsuri.4250:

choovanski.5462:

i’ve never understood why this build doesn’t get more play. as @Trevor Boyer notes its broken as heck.

i don’t know if you’ve ever had the pleasure of fighting more than one vault thief on a team- but it’s a nightmare. you can’t dodge them both so you just insta die all the time.

try to dodge 2 warriors while they are spaming arc divider every 3 seconds. You will feel the same. Similar feelings with any 2 classes with dps builds while they are focused on you.

true, but other classes dont have the insane evade uptime of thief. so at least i can land my own arc divider.

two vault thieves are harder to deal w than three DH in my experience.

True other classes have only insane invulnerability uptime

Arcaedus.7290:

Here’s some math:

Taking the formula for damage dealt to be:

Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

And the following assumptions:

• Thief to be using marauder’s amulet, scholar runes, force sigil

• Thief has DA/Trickery/Daredevil traitlines and going for all damage modifiers (except executioner)

• Thief is using assassin’s signet

• You are using marauder’s amulet (2167 armor)

• You had one condition on you (vuln, cripple, blind, poison)

Then vault could theoretically hit:

(1111 × 2225 × 2.25)/2167 …. multiplied by 1.94 (critical hit) gives: 4980 damage.

Then come the multipliers from assassin’s signet, traits, runes and sigil: 4980 × 1.1 × 1.1 x 1.1 × 1.1 × 1.15 x 1.05 × 1.07 = 9419 damage.

This isn’t altogether unlikely. The damage is still a bit ridiculous yes, but vault is definitely avoidable on reflex.

Do not forget the plus 10% DMG After a Dodge roll

The thief class is full of low tier skills/traits. That’s why we have the worst build diversity when it comes to pvp/pve. There are few traits and skills that are too good and a must choice, others that are simply trash or outdated. I think the meta thief build is quite balanced now, problem is we cannot realy choose between 2 different builds.

Ziggityzog.7389:

There is a reason GW1 is still to this day the best pvp if you want a real challenge ( Also lack of jumping is something i do not miss ). The key to the pvp was simplicity.

You Kill or Be Killed. None of this dance around a circle and zerg each other with stuns and conditions while one person on a team runs to other little circles for points. Runs in GW1 Random Team arena and for instance The glory of Heroes’ Ascent just made people want to play. The fights that even required NPC’s became epic in HA. When you saw your Team name flash to the world it became a Honor in the day. Having a good strong guild was required then to have multiple teams fighting in different time zones to hold that title. It was Glorious.

Lets go back to the glory of world live competition in game like HA. Lets also move away from circle dancing and go back to blood thirsty kill or be killed.

There is a chance to save pvp with how the game works all that would be needed is more skill diversity and going back to some old school pvp. There is still life in pvp if acted on after this season is over.

This reminds me of some topics back in the 2012, when GW2 was very young.
Anet didn’t care then, why they should care now?

Potato.2567:

There’s a certain player on the NA leaderboard who I won’t name, although everyone knows this person. This person is fairly low skill and only employs one strategy regardless of enemy comp or team comp, yet this person is very high on the ladder. Why? It’s because of their build: DD condi 3 spam thief. This build is one of the lowest skill builds in the game, yet has very high reward, because even if it doesnt win 1v1, idiots will still +1 it all game. Anet shouldn’t allow builds that press 3 buttons (Steal, Dodge, 3) to be so effective and carry players into the top 10. It’s too late for this season, but for next season this build needs to be removed from viability.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Tell me another joke please…
D/D condi thief is OP yeah…

Simply no, your suggestions make the game even easier.

Yeah the point system sucks. I realy hope it gets changed the next season.

Conditions needs to be toned down a lot. It’s not just a Dragon Hunter issue

bluri.2653:

yeah i like this idea Backstab – Increase damage by 100%, costs 6 Initiatives even if you miss
If you land Backstab from behind, Backstab has 50% chance to instantly down an opponent ignoring opponent’s armor value , ignoring opponent’s remaining health but can we not make it like 90% chance?

Hey bluri I would make it an AoE skill since this game is already an AoE mess

Man you’re talking as you know what the enemy team is doing before the match starts. There are too many variables and the thief should be your +1 man where needed. Of course there is the chance that you could do a 3v4 mid at the start of the match if they don’t cross and send war at close as you say. But you’re talking as the 3 of us mid will get wiped in a matter of seconds. Instead therr are a lot of scenarios that will open in that situation but good reaction and adaptation is needed as fast as you can. And nowadays all I see is a lack of reaction and of map scouting. People only knows 1 kind of opening: thief close and the rest mid or sometimes 1 crossing far. But if you play with standard tactic, you’re gona be predictable. I like to be unpredictable and I make my decisions during the match and not before, that’s why I hate when ppl ask me to go close because that is the worst opening ever. Sometimes I make bad choices cos I’m not Sindrener but it’s a game and I try to learn from my faults. The problem in this game is that it’s hard to see and understand how pro team play when you try to look at their matches so people still don’t know how to rotate. But I have played since 2012, my main is thief and I have seen a lot of pro thief playing during these years from Caed to Sizer to Sindrener nowadays and I have never seen one of them capping close as a match opening. just my2cent
I will keep playing as think it’s better
EDIT: also foefire is the easiest map to play and make rotations. I know that mid is important to get but you can also win rotating on the 2 side nodes. Usualy if I have a mesmer with portal I prefer him to go cap home, but the distance from side node to home is so small that you can send almost anyone but thief to cap home. And the mid is so large that 2 half bunker classes could easily survive vs 4 for the whole match. If people nowadays don’t know how to do teamfight if they are not 4v4 everytime, it’s not the thief fault but this game that allows pvers in pvp matches

Aeolus.3615:

Kolly.9872:

Thief is clearly op with all of this perma evade perma stealth perma block perma invuln. Pls nerf.

Anet will never nerf or improve what needs to be done

But but but thief is over the top.
I dream for the day when Guardians will have traps as powerfull as the thief ones,
where engis and mesmer will stealth at least for as much as thief can,
when at least half of the classes will have skills for revealing enemies as the thief already has.
When all the classes will have the same burst and blocks and overall the best hp pool as the thief has.
Got the point?

Abazigal.3679:

Kolly.9872:

Well sending thief to cap home is the worst thing ever.

Not necessarly, it is probably the least risky opening in solo queue :
- If you let it go far, you have to expect him to win the 1v1 and have your team handle a 4v3 middle for 10-12 seconds in the average scenario
- If you let him go mid, it’s not going to bring a good damage output on a 4v4 battle opening (with all buffs and stuffs), and it’s fairly easy to die considering the amount of passive and condition damage

Omg thief not necessarly MUST GO on a freaking point at the start of the match. Playing thief, you decide to go where do you think is better for the team at that moment but I hate when ppl want me to cap close. I cap close than what? If anyone that is not a thief is crossing I cannot defend the point just capped, if no one of my team leave the teamfight at mid and come back, my best option is to leave the home point for a free enemy decap instead of wasting time fighting on a point I will lose in a matter of seconds.
Usually when a match start, I as a thief tend to scout the map by going, stealthed where usualy the enemies crossing to our close should go. Thst way if one enemy is crossing I can show him in map for my close capper and I can start to attack him on the road outside the point. If my close capper is good enaugh, he should come for help and 2v1 the fight should be over fast. At the point looking at the map if there is 3v4 mid I go far for a free decap, if they are still 3v3 I go mid. I always look at the map and try to guess enemy option before I make my next move. Sometimes I make bad decisions too but usually it’s my teammate that don’t know how to rotate properly.
But above all, sending thief to cap close at the beginning it’s the worst thing ever. Thif it’s a roamer and scouter but not a point holder. The problem is that ppl still don’t look at the map because if they look, they should know where and how many enemies are, if they habe a good thief in their team

Thief is clearly op with all of this perma evade perma stealth perma block perma invuln. Pls nerf.

Well sending thief to cap home is the worst thing ever.

bluri.2653:

I have not lol, idk whats with these threads zzz

Oh kitten! I was just going to say “can I have your stuffs”

I use D/P too when going for ranked but dunno why I find easier to win duels when I am on my S/P build than on D/P. Maybe I’m just bad on DP but I win easily on SP those duels I always lose when on DP

1- first of all class balance
2- hard to start or find a team nowadays if you don’t have the proper skill level, too many elitist in this game.

For me it’s realy hard for new players to get into pvp nowadays and also for players like me that want to start again after a long break. If you don’t have any friend playing anymore it’s realy hard to find a team. The community is splitted into realy good players that only play between them and the rest of plauers that want to learn but cannot find any team to start with.

Sindrener wins there’s no competition right now. Too many good thieves quit long time ago

So after having nerfed to the ground every thief’s skill/weapon, now it’s the time to make useless shadowstep

Same error for me.
My location is Italy.

I like it. Prepardness should be baseline and the rest is ok.
The sad thing, this topic will remain unchecked by devs.

What? Ah ah funny joke OP
Go ask thieves if they think devs can play their class.

Sunshine.5014:

• Capture point starts big, around 420
• Whenever a fight happen around the point, it gradually becomes smaller over 20s
• Min radius is about 180
• When no fight is happening, gradually becomes bigger over 20s

All numbers can be tweaked based on data.
P.S: take a look at my other suggestions in the signature.

Definitely this one.

Bjarkov.9751:

There is clearly problems with guardians, and it seems very similar to 2 seasons ago when everyone were playing nec. Now before you say that i am a noob and that i dont know how to evade and kitten, i have played against pro players before and hit legendary twice. Now i havent played much pvp this season, mainly because i am starting to get bored of it, but when half of the playerbase switch to guard its either because it has some kind of flaw in the design, or because it takes no skill to play and it is easy to climb with.

Guardian is so easy to play that is disgusting. Ppl defending it are only no brainer that want an easy win. And they feel pro. Legend is full of unskilled players thanks to easy to play classes like dh nowadays. GG Anet

The imagination is strong in you

Supreme.3164:

I think thieves want to go back to this time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTSlULPN768

The funny thing of you is that heartseeker didn’t change much from the one in that video. A very old video tho. Spamming that skill was and is nowadays only a good tactic vs noobs. Don’t know if you’re one of those who fall to this spamming tactic.

When even a world tournment is not enough as a proof that thief is in the worst spot regarding gw2 balance. When even the few of the best thieves rerolled to other classes. Well than it’s a lost fight anyway.
People will never admit that thief needs badly help in the current state.

Supreme.3164:

Mapisto.2154:

It was absurdly easy to win 1 vs many with bunker druid, or guard a point with war. No challenge whatsoever

Huh really? Do you think you can fight any of those 3 classes on a point with an ele? a necro? a rev? a mesmer?

So let me get this straight…. thieves want to :

- Be the fastest ever
- Be the best engager/disengager
- Be able to counter everybody
- Be able to run away from anywhere and anything
- Be able to fight on points, holding them also

Ok got it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2ugIT68LTs

shall we delete the rest of the classes? it would make no sense to keep them in

No. We just don’ t want to be pushed out of the meta by every class at the moment. Saying the once guards are nerfed, then thieves will see the light again is pure bs. Mesmers, Warriors, Engies, Druids should be nerfed as well. Other wise explain me why I didn’t see a single thief in the last tournment even if Guardians were not the most used class? Explain me why the best thieves rerolled revenant. Also tell me when thieves were exsctly meta? When I look at the past years, I remember 4 cele team, 4 hambow team, 4 necro team during the dhumfire overbuff and now 4 dh team but never and never 4 thief team, even during the s\d thief time when Sizer was at his best and when every single thief and his mother was playing sizer build.

alchemyst.2165:

Kolly.9872:

alchemyst.2165:

As a thief main since beta I have to disagree with you.

Thief is harder than some of the other builds like druid or warrior, but that’s kinda the point. You offer different rewards to your for playing better (high risk, high reward). Thief is perfectly effective when the job is done correctly.

That is exactly the point OP is talking about. Other classes are too easy to play and to have success with, compared to thief and this is not balanced at all. Even if tasks are different, this is not an excuse for makinga class accomplish its task in an easier way than thieves.

Classes being harder to play than other isn’t a design problem as long as it reaps unique/better rewards, which, in my experience, is true for the thief. Bad thieves will carry the team you’re playing against, good thieves will carry the team you’re playing for.

If for bad do you mean mechanically unskilled, I can reply that unskilled players playing guardians are being carried by class mechanics. That is not the same for thieves. The balance problem lies here

Kuya.6495:

I think what thf needs is more viable builds that allow it go beyond just a decap/+1 role. But for that you need to find a way to provide tools for that without buffing the decapper thf.

Thief is not a decapper. Any class can decap a free node. +1 also is not a role. Any class can +1 a fight.
Guardian, Druids, Engies, also Warriors are much better decapper than thief and they can also provide a better support in a 2 vs 1 fight.
Please stop giving as an excuse for thief nerfs the simple fact they can decap a free node. If thieves only decap free nodes is just because they cannot do anything else.

alchemyst.2165:

As a thief main since beta I have to disagree with you.

Thief is harder than some of the other builds like druid or warrior, but that’s kinda the point. You offer different rewards to your for playing better (high risk, high reward). Thief is perfectly effective when the job is done correctly.

That is exactly the point OP is talking about. Other classes are too easy to play and to have success with, compared to thief and this is not balanced at all. Even if tasks are different, this is not an excuse for makinga class accomplish its task in an easier way than thieves.

First – posting here won’t receive any response by devs. They don’t even know the existence of this forum.
Second – it’s annoyng yes but it’s not a bug. Working as intended and it’s like this since the closed beta.

Yeah it was poorly implemented. Whoever came up with this change should realt stop working on thieves changes.

Devs don’t even know the existence of the [thief] guild. It might be new players thinking thief is OP cos “omg stealth oneshot bs perma evade” than devs joining a guild for checking the thief status

I just would like to have the chance to not play in the same team with ppl in my block list. If they are not in my premade already. If someone will be blocked by all players cos of his behavior, ot would be something very similar to a ban. This probably would make ppl behave better since the beginning and devs can keep ignoring the report button.

I kill thieves even when I don’t even know they are around. OP sucks

Zania.8461:

Kolly.9872:

3k hours on thief I have 50 vs 50 chance against a lot of ppl at my level skill
2 days on guardian I have about 100% win rate vs the same ppl
Guardian is so easy to play that it is embarassing

Thieves have second to non mobility, and thus are largely used for decaps and adding on to an existing fight to spike down the enemy.

Guardians have crap for mobility and are used to face smash enemies and/or to bunker pressure people off points/hold points.

…
I am not sure why you are surprised that you find it easier to kill things on a guardian.

Also after certain amount of time of playing this game, you learn mechanics well enough that swapping classes does not handicap you too much. Can you go from never playing a guard to being best guard ever? Likely not. But if you invested 3+k hours in the game you will not start from the bottom of the pile either.

Ok I agree at some point with you. But my first assumption was based on my experience that guardian nowadays is too easy to play. It needs an huge nerf? Of course not, but just some fix so that a brainless monkey should not be able to have success with it smashing random buttons.

Ragnarox.9601:

Kolly.9872:

Maybe, but the point is that a 3k hours on thief player like me, finds guardian a lot easier to play and to deal against other classes after just 2 days of maining the class. Am I good? Maybe or maybe not, surely my ego is not as big as the one of other players it seems but still I can say I play thief a lot better than I play guardian.

Maybe then you suck at thief and you should play guardian more? Just my 2 cents.

Or just maybe I’m a beast at thief and guardian is simply easier to play. I’d say even a more brainless class to play.
But I forgot that the most common argument on this forum is “you suck get gud”. Usually are the most clueless players that abuse this kind of argumentation.
Just my2cent

Ragnarox.9601:

Kolly.9872:

3k hours on thief I have 50 vs 50 chance against a lot of ppl at my level skill
2 days on guardian I have about 100% win rate vs the same ppl
Guardian is so easy to play that it is embarassing

Maybe that same ppl are not skilled at all?

Maybe, but the point is that a 3k hours on thief player like me, finds guardian a lot easier to play and to deal against other classes after just 2 days of maining the class. Am I good? Maybe or maybe not, surely my ego is not as big as the one of other players it seems but still I can say I play thief a lot better than I play guardian.

3k hours on thief I have 50 vs 50 chance against a lot of ppl at my level skill
2 days on guardian I have about 100% win rate vs the same ppl
Guardian is so easy to play that it is embarassing

I’ve added you guys to my buddy list. Let’s talk in game. See ya

Lucred.1802:

Cynz.9437:

AllNightPlayer.1286:

You want equality? Then give up your special stealth attacks and use normal auto-attacks in stealth like every other class, even Mesmer.
You want to stay special? Then deal with the special treatment.

Sureeee, then thief should get invuls, high uptime on blocks and higher HP pool while we are at it. Oh and better team support. And army of pets. And more high dmg AoE. And more condi removal. And more passives.

There is 1000 things that thief doesn’t have or has close to no access too, they pay high price for measy 3k dmg (not even going to mention sb, sword and co. – they are worthless in most cases) that gets put on CD if target moved, got pulled, blocked attack, blinded attack, went in invul, thief got CCd etc.

Surely, you could argue stealth attacks should be skillful but then threat every other aspect of ALL classes the same. I see NOTHING skillful in current HoT builds. Most of them are close to auto-pilot and are extremely forgiving due to passives, high uptime on survival tools and high access to AoE. Meanwhile Anet wastes times on trying to find ways how to nerf single target attacks that in most cases barely do any dmg and require you to blow CDs/most of ini.

3k dmg? On what, your auto attack?

Backstab hits, baseline non-crit on a heavy armor class, for around 3.5k and can crit as high as 10k. Lotus Strike hits, baseline non-crit on a heavy armor class, for 2.5k and can crit as high as 8k. And with most thieves running around with 70%+ crit chance they can and do frequently 2-shot heavy armor classes.

You have an almost-instant guaranteed stomp with the uppercut combo. no other class can stomp that fast or with that much impunity. Engi comes close with shrink invul but that can still be evaded with some downed skills.

You can disengage and reset basically at will. You have the single best mobility in the game, by a HUGE margin.

Pretty much the only thing thieves are lacking is group utility. And even then, they’re not completely dry. Staff does okay in team fights, P/P melts things pretty quick from a safe range, and you’ve got a bunch of combo fields and your near-instant-stomp to bring.

I really don’t understand why thieves are complaining about 1v1 in a game mode that is almost entirely centered on group fights.

This guy clearly doesn’t know anything about thieves. Troll spotted.
And I don’t even try to argue why thieves are in need of a huge buff in the current meta because has being said over and over by others and if Anet can’t see it and keep nerfing and buffing the wrong classes, I can’t do much but leave pvp to all the brainless people left.

OP don’t bother to write anything against DH. You’ll just see a lot of DH’s fanboys telling you that you and everyone else sucks, while every DH user is just more skilled than you.

Because Devs don’t know what else could be nerfed on thieves before they actually can make some good changes.

Seyiwaji.4082:

why is this skill unblockable?

Because there are too many brainless blocks in this kittenty game

Thief is even counter productive in many situations. No class should feel so useless in any game type.

I’ve always used it but it was not a trick but a bug so it deserves to be fixed. The only thing is that devs seems to be realy active when something that help thieves needs their attention, but they don’t care to fix anything that might help thieves.

Auroraborealis.7310:

So, I am rather new to GW2. I’ve played other mmo’s such as SWTOR, WOW, Blade and Soul, ect… Well in the one months time I have been playing GW2 I have noticed that the stealth class Thief seems absurdly strong, especially in WvW. The stealth class in the game seems stronger than any assassin like class I have seen in any other MMO. More access to stealth, capability to deal half life damage in one single attack. It just seems kinda ridiculous, and I’m just wondering how others counter this kitten . You literally have no time to even think defensively when they can seemingly auto nuke targets in a few hits. What class is recommended to be strong against Thieves, and how do you counter them? Right now I’m kinda losing interest in Gw2 because this one class seems to be nearly god mode with permanent evades and utility’s to prevent damage constantly. I have since made a thief, but it seems less interesting than other classes and I don’t wanna be pined into playing one class just to be competitive.

1- FIRST stop being a noob
2- SECOND roll every other class and destroy thieves

Straegen.2938:

Winner… Winner… OP is a Winner. Unfortunately that means we are all losers.

My sign is telling us the truth since 2 october 2012.
My sign is the real winner