Guild Wars 2

(New post for ley line location theory)

Taking the five points above, using the probes and waypoints only roughly, I came to the following conclusion of ley line locations (see attachment). Notes on my thoughts:

1. I’d first like to note that the lines are approximations and I only did one-size-fits-all, I doubt that all ley lines are of equal width or depth (both in terms of how tall they are, and how deep they are). I’d also like to differentiate between a hub and a split – a hub is an intersection, and a split is where 2 ley lines become one, or vise versa.
2. Based off of the diagram of the drill in Scarlet’s End instance (or rather images/videos of such), and specifically at the Drill and Leyline Diagram dialogue, we can see that the image coming from the probes show 4 ley lines going through Lion’s Arch – initially 3 but one on each side of the 2d diagram splits off. If this is so, then Thaumanova and the Cavern of Shining Lights – which are both called smaller hubs – would have 2 or 3 lines coming off of them. In my guessing, I could only figure out 3 ley lines for LA, and 2 for the other two – and in the other two cases, that seems like the best outcome, so I think I’m just lacking for LA.
3. The Artesian Waters is said to have drawn the Six Gods to Tyria, I would argue this makes it a ley line hub larger than even Lion’s Arch – likely the biggest hub in the world, even. Despite this, given so little we know of Orr, I can only think of 3 ley lines that could go through it (unless all of Orr is one huge ley line and the Artesian Waters is just the epicenter). Placement reasons: Trahearne said the Royal Tomb is a place of power; the Altar of Glaust is said to require the specific location for the ritual; Grenth’s temple is said to have ambient magic (specifically, the Buried Archives) so I presume the other temples do too, especially since each temple (sans Balthazar’s) is a location of Risen/Personal Story importance.
4. It felt natural to assume each Elder Dragon slept on a ley line – be it one or many. Due to lack of information, I only placed one for Zhaitan, Primordus, and Kralkatorrik.
5. Like the Orrian temples, I covered the other temples with a ley line, as it felt natural for humans to have built temples over places of power if they did so with Lion’s Arch – knowingly or not. This includes: Temple of Grenth in Lornar’s Pass; Temple of Balthazar in The Falls (GW1); Temple of Lyssa in Mineral Springs (GW1); Serenity Temple in Blazeridge Steppes; and Temple of the Ages in Queensdale.
6. I covered Drascir as it seems a bit weird to build one’s capital north of the wall some centuries after the nation’s establishment – and put one of the two biggest magical schools in the continent there. Something’s up. It happened to go through a natural place of power too, and I stretched the line up to Kralkatorrik wading between the probes there. Seemed proper.
7. I placed Mrot Baru’s Waypoint on a separate ley line from the other vine-affected ones as it was affected by vines after the rest of the Brisban ones were, which felt to me like Mordremoth was spreading down a split – one that went towards Thaumanova given the direction it’d be. I extended it down to Rata Sum because in GW1, where the cube now lies is where a lot of floating rocks in Magus Stones was (making it a place of heavy magical concentration), and I furthered that through the docks (which have waypoints; formerly Arachni’s Haunt) and towards the Door of Komalie.
   • I do NOT attribute the Bloodstones in any way to ley line locations. Their placement is knowingly random. The Door of Komalie/Abaddon’s Mouth may have power though.
8. I extended the Concordia vines down through Judgment Rock as to hylek this place is of importance, and it nicely went through Droknar’s Forge/Crucible of Eternity. Extending it further led me to go through Amnoon Oasis (eh) and Augury Rock, aka the Hall of Ascension (major magical importance!).
9. I normally wouldn’t have put the Pale Tree over a ley line, but after the Mordremoth attack I wouldn’t doubt it; more importantly though there seems to be a shared tie to the Ogham Wilds water fall via the Dream, and Morgan’s Spiral holds importance magically too (risen are drawn to it), the ley line that made most sense for the latter two was the one I had stretched into Southsun Cove per the probes. I added the split to Thaumanova because of the Mrot Baru Waypoint I mentioned above being late with vines – I think that was the path taken to the Pale Tree, and we don’t see affected waypoints because lvl 1-15 area and Taimi’s device.

This has been bugging me for several weeks so I decided to just go ahead and post my thoughts in full.

I think you guys are on the wrong track with the concept of portals.

While I understand the mentality behind the portal concept, there’s really nothing to suggest such beyond waypoints being fueled by ley line magic (which in of itself is downright silly). Thaumanova – the only place where teleportation and ley lines are linked together (and I’ve noted that you guys seem to have forgotten Thaumanova was over a ley line hub) – was a focus of chaos energy; the moving of the chaos energy source, the Thaumacore Energy Source, resulted in the teleportation being moved north – nothing hints at a ley line going from Thaumanova to the Toxal Bog. Suffice it to say, the grounds for the theory that portals=ley line is moot.

Instead I’d look at the following for where to look:

Starting Point 1: In an interview, Scott McGough talked about the original hints of the ley lines in GW2, citing Field Test – specifically Gorr’s mention of ambient energy in the area, stating or implying that location is above a ley line due to said ambient energy. Thus, locations denoted for heavy ambient energy are good candidates for a ley line passing through.

Starting point 2: We have confirmation that waypoints feed off of ley line magics unintentionally. So knowing where all waypoints are is a strong case of mapping out ley lines. The sad thing here… is that waypoints are everywhere. May as well just cover the whole of Tyria and call it a ley line. I would presume, however, most waypoints feed off of tiny “streams” of ley lines, which are overall insignificant and wouldn’t produce (heavy) ambient magic, rather than something as wide as the Cavern of Shining Lights.

Starting Point 3: Scarlet’s probes were made to find the ley lines, and with Scarlet knowing of them already likely placed them near suspected locations of ley lines, only trying to pin point hubs for her attack. Aside from “those we see in-game”: we also have two maps from the Scarlet’s End instance that shows the locations of probes not seen in the game – featuring the Far Shiverpeaks, Charr Legion Homelands, Woodland Cascades, and, oddly, northern Kryta (oddly because those are in-game locations, mostly – but Queensdale).

Starting Point 4: Thaumanova, Lion’s Arch, and Cavern of Shining Lights are all ley line hubs – a place where multiple ley lines converge. They also share a singular large ley line, and Lion’s Arch is the biggest. We also know the center point of each: where the drill was in LA, where the beam of light (that you jump into for the champ ogre fight), and Omadd’s Machine (per Taimi in E3). From there, we know multiple ley lines pop out from each.

Starting Point 5: Mordremoth’s vines. According to one of the interactive objects in Cavern of Shining Lights, there is a paper from Scarlet theorizing that the pockmarked/hole-filled stones of the ley line hub there is commonplace throughout Tyria underground. Through those holes via Scarlet’s equipment (according to Taimi) we can see magic moving through. This means that the major ley line paths are akin to swiss cheese – making it easy for Mordremoth’s vines to move through, right? What’s most interesting is that we have a line forming from the vines adjacent to Thaumanova and going through LA beginning just past the Cavern where Mordrem already gathered and we can see little vines throughout. Mordy’s vines are likely following two major ley lines.

Using the five above points, I have created a base map for likely points that are struck or near a ley line. Due to how there are waypoints everywhere, I created two maps: one with waypoints (the first), one without (the second).

Map Key:

• White = Ley Line Hub Centers
• Yellow = Natural Communing Skill Challenges
• Orange = Artificial Communing Skill Challenges (read: potentially made over a ley line akin to Lion’s Arch and Thaumanova).
• Red = Ambient Magic
• Maroon = GW1-only ambient magic/place of power (natural and artificial); locations based off of that_shaman’s historical map
• Blue = Waypoints
• Green = Mordremoth’s vines (Blue/Green are vine-affected waypoints)
• Purple = Probe
• Black = Elder Dragon (Primordus’s/Kralkatorrik’s hibernation spot; Zhaitan’s lair (Mordremoth’s hibernation spot unknown; Jormag and DSD’s hibernation spots supposedly off map).

I apologize for the orange over Cursed Shore… it was the last I got to and really didn’t feel like reworking that.

And a MAJOR thanks to that_shaman from reddit who had pulled various maps out so that I could make a compilation overlay map that included Dry Top, Arah, and other dungeons.

webtoehobbit.4201:

Konig, even with your explanation, I still don’t see how it’s impossible for the Shadow of the Dragon to be a memory of what a Sylvari experienced outside of the dream. It is a collection of memories and possible futures and whatnot.

I never actually said it was impossible, just that the explanation we are point-blank given says otherwise.

So unless Caithe, Serimon, and the Pale Tree are all liars about things they spent so much time becoming experts on… And nothing says that those three were wrong, in all honesty.

Ronin.7381:

Caithe and the PT assumes SoTD is a representation of Zhaitan because during the time in which the prologue takes place; nobody is aware of Mordremoth.

Caithe doesn’t really presume anything – not in her wording at least.

And it sounds like the Pale Tree was mighty aware of Mordremoth the entire time, given that she knew of Mordremoth before it even awoke as she tells sylvari players in hindsight.

Wow, I feel the love in this forum. So, wanna grab the pitchforks and torches before you throw me out with your insults and namecalling?

Rather than insulting me, Ruhk, why don’t you do some research. Let me point out to you why what I said isn’t my supposition, but ArenaNet’s writer’s own work.

Dialogue with Caithe in sylvari tutorial:
“This poison spreads hatred and anger. We must fight it.”
->Who caused this?
“An evil group called the Nightmare Court. They wish to harm the sleepers. Trust me, sapling. All will be made clear to you very soon.”

During the fight:
Caithe: “There! The poison has taken form. Quickly, destroy it while we can!” (when the shadow spawns)
Caithe: “Destroy the nightmare before it takes root.” (when the Shadow is at 50% health)
Caithe: “We will defend the Dream. Be gone, monster.” (when the Shadow is at 25% health)
Caithe: “It is finished. The Dream is safe against this poison, thanks to you. We’ll see each other again in waking world, soon.” (when the Shadow is defeated)

After:
<Character name>: “She and I fought side by side against a poison in the Dream. I saw the shadow of a terrible dragon, and I felt the Dream call upon me to defeat it.”
Mender Serimon: “By the Tree! A Wyld Hunt, so soon? And such a momentous task. To be a Valiant of the Wyld Hunt is a difficult charge. Bear this calling with pride.”

And later on at the end of the first PS chapter:
<Character name>: If I may ask, Mother-in my dream, I also saw a fierce, horrible dragon. I’ve been told it is my Wyld Hunt to face this monster. Is that true?
Avatar of the Tree: I fear that it is. A Wyld Hunt is a sacred thing, a burden placed by the Dream upon the strongest and bravest of my children.
Avatar of the Tree: In your Dream, you fought an Elder Dragon face-to-face. Only two of my children have had such a dream. You, and Caithe.
Avatar of the Tree: All sylvari fight the dragon’s servants, the undead, but I believe you will face Zhaitan itself. I also believe you will prevail.

There was no sparse information – it was pointblank explained. It is the very foundation of the sylvari involvement in taking the fight to Zhaitan in Personal Storyline.

If anyone is wrong, it would be because the writers retconned their own works. Again.

And if you even pay attention to my posts then you’ll know that I’ve been saying that when playing a sylvari it’s constantly stated the two are the same.

So here’s a train of thought for you:

What if it originated as a vision to defeat Zhaitan, and Mordremoth – whom may be the source of nightmare – turned the vision, the Wyld Hunt, into a physical thing?

Goatjugsoup.8637:

given the state of lions arch i dont think it makes sense in universe for them to be throwing dragon bash.

Except, you know, as a fund raiser and a way to lift people’s spirits and bring a bit of order to the damaged city.

Slowpokeking.8720:

“My will is Zhaitan’s” it’s connected with this and she made clear that her will is Zhaitan’s. Again do you have evidence that could counter her words?

A lot – if not all – risen seem to view themselves as special to Zhaitan. Take the Veteran Kitah Conjurer in the Kitah Manse event (open world), who says that Zhaitan specifically chose him – he’s a figure of no consequence, and the Elder Dragons don’t care for their little army of ants.

What she’s saying there is simply “What I desire is what Zhaitan desires.” She isn’t say “Zhaitan is controlling my every action!” And again, this is just narcessism that is common amongst, in all honesty, all Elder Dragon minions – not just risen.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Of course they were directly controlled by Zhaitan, they bear its will, obey its order and what they saw could be seen by Zhaitan. It’s even made clear that they were “chained” to it. I don’t understand why are you keep backing evidence after evidence.

King Reza: Yes. We were chained to the dragon, corrupted into monsters that bore Zhaitan’s vision and carried out its will.

Firstly the “what they saw could be seen by Zhaitan” was unique to the Eyes alone – for the rest, it was just “what they knew, Zhaitan knew” (a subtle difference indeed). Secondly, by arguing they’re puppets you were saying they’re directly controlled by Zhaitan. They don’t bear its will, they think they do, and only the champions follow its orders – but even then they still act autonomously.

Slowpokeking.8720:

All of their known evil action were carrying Zhaitan’s will, their mind are linked with Zhaitan(made clear during the order quest), sure they don’t need Zhaitan’s direction to know "how to do it " but clearly was directed by Zhaitan of “what to do”.

So… the Sovereign Eye letting Trahearne and the PC past 6 champion Risen Knights (which literally could wipe the floor with you if you attack them before the scripting turns them to allies) just to deal with them personally was part of Zhaitan’s will?

No, the champions have a degree of freedom, and this degree of freedom allows them to put their own dragon at threat – something that Zhaitan himself clearly wouldn’t do given that he had attempted to eliminate both Trahearne and the PC well before they could reach their goals, rather than deciding to eliminate them at their goal.

Slowpokeking.8720:

You kinda don’t get it. “Turned into puppets” does not mean they could not think anymore independently. But their will is bound to Zhaitan, they could not act independently because the dragon’s will direct them. Many many evidences proved this.

Actually, it rather does mean exactly that.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Again there is no proof but bunch of evidence countering your argument. There is no point to state it again and again without a bit of evidence other than your own speculation.

Actually, just about every dragon minion line and dialogue about dragon corruption that is beyond “they’re forces of nature” is my base of reasoning.

For example, if you read Edge of Destiny, you are shown the thoughts of two branded individuals and they immediately turn to worship Kralkatorrik, but they still think and act individually. In Arah explorable, it is stated that Glint was given free will; in Edge of Destiny, she explains how she didn’t realize how evil Kralkatorrik was until she heard the thoughts of those she slew (presumably, as she fails to mention the ritual, this was after said ritual).

In Sea of Sorrows, Captain Whiting goes out of his way to bring Cobiah Marriner on board. He even says to retreat after they have him! Is this Zhaitan’s doing? He launched a full scale invasion just to give up after obtaining a single man? That doesn’t sound like an Elder Dragon who couldn’t give a kitten about the mere ants around him. So clearly that’s Whiting’s descretion.

Is it Zhaitan’s will and orders to let Trahearne, who had already proven once he can reverse corruption, into the place Trahearne needed to do exactly that (reverse the corruption)? No, that would be the Sovereign Eye’s arrogance and desire to destroy Trahearne personally.

The very fact that the risen act without change after Zhaitan’s defeat in Arah explorable is proof that they don’t function on Zhaitan’s direct orders, else they’d be going “What do I do oh my lord and master and savior Zhaitan!? What do I do!?!?” – they don’t. They’re still functioning. They’re still corrupting. They’re still praising Zhaitan and claiming Zhaitan demands this and that. They still function as if Zhaitan is alive and kicking, despite the opposite being true. THAT is all the proof that’s really needed, the rest of this is just icing on the cake.

The water wasn’t frozen. It was just magically insanely cold. There’s a difference.

Slowpokeking.8720:

They are puppeteers, one of them even made it clear.

Labwan the Deceiver: My will is Zhaitan’s.
Labwan the Deceiver: You and your troops will be his puppets.

The Eye have no choice but to obey Zhaitan, sure the high rank ones have their own intelligence but was still directly controlled by Zhaitan. They do bad things because of the dragon’s direction.

King Reza: Ah… My own hand…my own form. My mind is no longer controlled by the dragon’s curse. Praise the gods, I am free!

King Reza: Yes. We were chained to the dragon,

Firstly, there’s a difference between a risen saying that those it is fighting will become puppets, and that it is a puppet. Remember, risen are compulsive liars who excel at saying demoralizing things.

And no, the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan was not directly controlled by Zhaitan. “My mind is no longer controlled by the dragon’s curse.” – this is not “my mind is no longer controlled by the dragon” but by the dragons CURSE

All risen are autonomous. They do not require Zhaitan’s constant control. They function independently. If Zhaitan stops paying attention, they will not crumple, they will keep acting. There is a difference between being brainwashed and being a puppet.

In the act of corruption, creatures are enslaved, not turned into puppets. Their complete freedom of choice is taken, as they are turned into fanatical sycophants towards the dragon who corrupted them.

Slowpokeking.8720:

It turned living into undead, but we can see they do bad things mostly because Zhaitan want them to do it. Now Zhaitan is gone, shouldn’t they lose their goal?

Why would they? They’ve been brainwashed into believing Zhaitan to be eternal, more powerful than the Six Gods themselves. To them, the concept of Zhaitan’s death is nonexistent, even with its death. This is the point of being brainwashed into drooling fanatical servants. They are not puppets. They do not require Zhaitan’s constant attention – such an army is poor. This is why the weakest of minions know of nothing more than swarming all living things they encounter. They are autonomous, and they function without Zhaitan’s efforts, and with their brainwashing and enslavement, they will serve Zhaitan’s will even if Zhaitan is not giving them direct orders or controlling them directly because that is what they’ve been programmed to do – it is what their brainwashing demands them to do.

The syncing of the timelines NEVER made sense.

Not since it was first kittenly done, and they’ve done nothing to clarify the confusions wrought by it.

The Cataclysm’s shown in the Arah story instance, showing Orr sinking in pieces. When it rose, it wouldn’t have risen perfectly. And ever seen what happens when you pour warm water over ice? The ice cracks; going from ice cold water to warm air would do the same. As for getting samples: tie a rope onto a bucket and toss the bucket overboard then haul it up.

You’re wrong on the changing professions, actually. And the Schools of Magic have been made irrelevant in modern Tyria by Angel McCoy (explanation as I understand it being that so much magic has bled into the world that it’s no longer limited to just the Bloodstones’ magic – and they’re using the dual professions in GW1 as part of this lore, as in GW1 it was possible to use 2 schools at a time (it was never said to be dangerous to the self, either, btw, just impossible thanks to the Bloodstones’ separation)).

In this interview, Angel had discussed the topic. And on dual professioning/using a new kind of magic there was this:

Esprits d’Orr : For gameplay considerations, each class can cast only a specific type of magic. However, in terms of roleplay, would it be possible for wizards to have a wider magical knowledge or potential, and therefore be able to cast spells from a variety of branches (such as an elementalist fireball coupled with a mesmer illusion) ?

Angel McCoy : I love that idea, as do many people living in Tyria. The reality, however, is that only the most powerful have the time and energy to do this. It’s like getting two doctorate degrees, one in medicine and one in engineering. Few have the time to do this, and usually, an individual doesn’t want to turn her back on everything she’s already learned to start a new magical discipline. She’d much rather continue advancing her knowledge in the discipline she’s invested decades in. Some, however, may dabble and experiment with specific spells. If a master elementalist can find a mesmer to teach her to produce an illusion, then she may explore ways to combine them. Most professions keep their secrets close to their chests though. And, the danger of a conflict between magical energies and thus, an explosion, is very real.

The Dream is not a collected consciousness, and is far more than just the sylvari’s memories. It is an actual (meta)physical location we can enter with the Pale Tree’s help, as we can experience in A Light in the Darkness. It is a location made of aether and filled with replicas of sylvari memories, and more. It predates even the Pale Tree and she doesn’t even know much about it. It is no hive mind either, despite common belief, as Killeen in Ghosts of Ascalon outright states (and I think a sylvari would know).

So no, it wouldn’t have required someone to encounter the Shadow of the Dragon outside of the Dream first. Especially since it formed as a representation of Zhaitan (hence why it looks so similar to Tequatl and his other dragon champions) and made physical within the Dream by the Nightmare. Then Mordremoth seems to have brought it into Tyria.

Heck, there’s even some lava and fires folks can stand in without burning.

There’s a lot that the Inquest works on. Chaos magic (despite common misconception thanks to Scarlet in Thaumanova, it is not the same as dragon energy – just similar and the Inquest mistook dragon energy for chaos magic and mixed the two), dragon energy, souls as energy, teleportation without a receiver, alternative energy sources, etc. etc.

Rukh.9287:

Here’s the quote " A distant shore—and darkness. A root, a cave…you. You are the seed. What Ronan knew and never told still lingers in the Dream." From the missions with Malyck. Now it doesn’t say “A sea” but it does say a distant shore. So it could be across Janthir Bay.

If “the Dream” knows the thing, the Pale tree, or other sylvari had to have been there. A cave, seeds. It sure sounds like the pale tree’s start spot, as it refers to Ronan.

“A shore” doesn’t mean the location of the cave of seas nor does it mean across a sea. I point you to much older lore:

“This story began with a human soldier named Ronan whom, while separated from his patrol, discovered a cavern filled with strange seed-pods.”

From The Movement of the World. This description has been used – though reworded – countless times in interviews and NPCs in the Grove telling the history of the city. Ronan, a Shining Blade member, was in the Maguuma Jungle – as that is where all the Shining Blade were.

That “shore” – if it holds to the cave of seeds and not something else related specifically to Malyck (such as his tree, or maybe a second cave) could be anything from “Mamnoon Lagoon” or the lake to the north of the Maguuma Jungle/Wastes area (though no indications of the Shining Blade being that far north), or one of many other lake shores that existed inthe Maguuma during GW1.

Rukh.9287:

Possibly, but I think we’ll find that the lines are significant.

I wasn’t saying they weren’t significant, just that they’re not ley lines.

Rukh.9287:

And we do know that the Isles of Janthir are tremendously important, one of the more magic concentrated places in the entire world of Tyria.

No we don’t. All we know about the Isles of Janthir are:

1. The Eye of Janthir comes from there. According to the White Mantle.
2. A race who have the Gift of True Sight lives/d there. According to the White Mantle.
3. It lies to the south. According to the White Mantle.

The last one shows how trustworthy the first two are, really. Beyond that, all we know is what we see on the world map (particularly of GW1) and that’s that it looks barren.

Rukh.9287:

There’s a few differences, but its clear it’s from some sort of source that’s used for the shape of places. They put in enough work to replicate all the areas from GW1 in pretty good detail.

“A few differences” being that Cantha and Tyria are connected by land, the other two/three unknown continents not even showing up, amongst other things. That’s the in-game model using that texture.

Rukh.9287:

One other thing. The Mursaat were able to hide themselves from the dragons. Glint saved the forgotten, dwarves, lions tigers and bears oh my etc, but the Mursaat figured out how to do it on their own. Their ability was said to be to somehow become “out of phase” with the world. What if the Dream is how they did this? What if the Pale tree is some sort of Mursaat creation, who uses their power to shield its seedlings from dragon corruption?

Unlikely. By the dialogue, their ability to phase out of the world was actually stepping into the Mists partially – and it’s into the Mists they fled eventually.

Now, I have theories that the Dream is part of the Mists, but even if it is there’s far too little support for the Pale Tree being a weapon made by the mursaat. Far too many groups have access to the Mists (kodan, norn, humans, Forgotten, and mursaat are the primary ones) to really be able to pin-point such things. And it wouldn’t explain the White Stag that, like the Pale Tree, exists in both the Dream and Tyria.

If you look just above the dragon when it becomes vulnerable, you’ll see that branches form right above it between the Omphalos Chamber walls. So yes, the Pale Tree is grabbing the Shadow of the Dragon and holding him down for you to attack.

versidia.4520:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

…

Humans start worshipping other deities, like the Grawl, starting their great civil wars…

The only humans that worshiped other deities – that’s known to us – would be splinter cults, and those groups did not wage wars.

What about the War in Kryta?

Yeah, for some reason my mind skipped over the White Mantle and thought “Sacred Griffon of Amnoon” (a griffon that was worshiped by some humans who lost their faith in the Five while in the Crystal Desert) and “Cult of the Stone Faces” (ancient stone head statues worshiped by a phony cult in Istan)…

Despite ArenaNet’s sayings that the Elder Dragons are “beyond mortal comprehension” they have given the Elder Dragons hints of personalities that can be comprehended.

My old research, well before many discoveries about Mordremoth (and even a couple on Primordus) can be found here – I have an updated version going to be in the next GuildMag issue… whenever that will end up being.

I don’t think their personalities is really as simple as “I want to be left alone” or “I will survive!” like the OP is apparently trying to attribute.

As to the comment of “Mordremoth being a jerk” because he broke Scarlet… the Elder Dragons view mortals as insignificant. For a comparison: it’d be like a human experimenting on a little albino mouse… if you get what I mean.

Rukh.9287:

However. We know the Pale Tree’s seed came from across the sea.

Uh, no? Ronan found the seed during one of his patrols in the Maguuma Jungle.

Rukh.9287:

What is it? The globe in the Chantry of Whispers is a bunch of overlapping textures, with resized duplicates. If you take the main world map, and the leyline map and place it over each other, this is what you get. You notice there’s a big line that runs through the great collapse in Divinity’s Reach, Lion’s Arch, and the north coast. The thing is, if you overlay our actual world map on this map, there’s actually the bay of Janthir where that coast is, and the Isles of Janthir right under the big dot.

The globe in the Chantry of Secrets is a “Threat Assessment Board” with disproportioned landscapes that vary based on the Whisper’s knowledge of both geography and local threats. It holds no relation to ley lines. Should be noted that the landscape scaling in-game doesn’t match that of the texture, indicating that the texture may be more accurate (though as we see with the lack of the Bay of Janthir, there are still some issues with the texture none-the-less).

Going with the ME stuff above, the Inquest is more akin to Cerberus to me – and no, not because Kudu and the Illusive Man both become corrupted by world-ending powers they seek to control and use for the betterment of their race’s domination of others. Though that certainly is one hell of a parallel (which Thalador had pointed to me long before I played even ME1, let alone ME2 and 3).

Like Cerberus, the Inquest seems to be a collective of cells that each work on different projects and can be categorized under different umbrellas (no, not the Umbrella Corporation :P). From dragon energy research (that Kudu led), to soul research, to asuran politics (that I think Yahk would be the head of), etc. Whether or not there’s some hidden all-high individual above it all akin to the Illusive Man, I cannot gander.

Flax seems only related to the Inquest in that he desires the same outcome: asuran supremacy. But as shown in the dynamics storyline, he will always take the more cost-effective route, regardless of moral standings. He makes deals with the Inquest a lot because of such, but if a better option becomes available, he will instantly turn to that better option.

On an aside: I would not be surprised if the asuran-originating company of the Consortium happens to be an Inquest economic front… Both groups seem to have little care about moral backgrounds, and both are asuran… and we don’t know anything about the Consortium higher ups beyond that they’re willing to send assassins after failures… just like the Inquest does, I believe.

Slowpokeking, there is a VERY big difference between “carried out its will” and “directed by its will.”

The former situation is, in this case, the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan knowing Zhaitan’s will, and choosing (through the forced immense fanaticism) to carry it out. The latter, using the same minion as an example, would be the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan being controlled directly by Zhaitan.

It may seem nitpickery, but it’s important – just like it’s important whether Glint’s eggs were produced due to her being pregnant before corruption, or if they’re a case of a dragon champion creating more dragon minions (no pregnancy invovled). In one case, you have an individual who has some degree of choice and free will (although heavily altered due to corruption) and decides its own actions and has its own thoughts (again, heavily altered due to corruption), in the latter the Elder Dragon is a puppetmaster and the minions are literally lifeless husks that would cease to function the moment the Elder Dragon stops paying attention.

By all indication, the Elder Dragons are brainwashers, not puppeteers. The risen, icebrood, etc. will all continue to function after the Elder Dragons are dead, because they are all automanous individuals. They don’t require the Elder Dragon to function, no different than you don’t need your government to function. The Elder Dragon isn’t a brain to a single body, it’s the queen of a bee hive (likely a poor comparison, but best I can think of).

FrostSpectre.4198:

Humans kill millions under the order of the 5 gods.

They may have killed millions – but so did the charr – and not under the order of the five gods. Maybe under the order of Balthazar, for some, but not all five and not all millions killed. There are those who killed in the name of Grenth and Abaddon too, but they weren’t ordered – that’s the case of individual fanatics and to blame all of humanity for such actions is akin to blaming all muslims for Osama Bin Ladin. An act that is sadly done…

FrostSpectre.4198:

• Humans then proceed to take creation of other races and make them as their own (example: Bloodstone was created by the Seers to hide magic from the Dragons).
• Humans rewrite the history in their favor, justifying more horrid actions against everyone, even themselves.
• Traces of the Elder Dragons are pretty much wiped clean, except for the information written by the still existing ancient races. There can’t be entities, which power drives the six gods into silence, so they have to be erased from history!

As explained by Angel McCoy, the misdocumentation of history was not a deliberate act. It was not an act of maliciousness as you seem to be claiming, but an act of ignorance. Humanity claimed the Bloodstones and magic itself was made by the Six Gods because they didn’t know any better. They came from a world with next to no magic into a world which had its magic drained/sealed away, and suddenly they’re given a gift by the gods (when they unleashed the sealed magic); what else were they to think, unless told specifically by the gods “we did not create it, but freed it.” Apparently the gods didn’t. Though the gods had erased history once before (Abaddon), and hid things from the humans, it is not humans at fault and the gods likely had good reason.

FrostSpectre.4198:

Humans start worshipping other deities, like the Grawl, starting their great civil wars…

The only humans that worshiped other deities – that’s known to us – would be splinter cults, and those groups did not wage wars.

FrostSpectre.4198:

Humans have caste system, off which many just try to increase their own power at the cost of others, Bandits and White Mantle cult.

I think you should look up what a “caste system” is. Because that’s not what humanity has.

FrostSpectre.4198:

Sylvari have the problem of being dragon minions.

Player speculation that is still fully unsupported.

FrostSpectre.4198:

Norn have the problem of their philosophies of life, this drives many to join Sons of Svanir cult, cause the most common interest is to gain more strength.

The norn’s culture doesn’t drive many to join the Sons of Svanir – the norn’s culture promotes the self, obtaining power through the self, becoming a legend through the self. The Sons of Svanir seek power through Jormag, that is the opposite of common norn culture. And it isn’t all about strength, it’s about renown. You can have the weakest norn ever become a proud symbol of the people if it had the most well-known legend out there. It’s just that most norn seek their legends through the preys they hunt and kill.

FrostSpectre.4198:

Charr have the issue of group that want to keep warring with humans, the renegades, to which some Charr defect into.

There are far more issues with the charr than one measely group of renegades. Flame Legion, a culture built upon war and conquest, a militant hierarchical system imbedded throughout the entire culture (an issue because it’s easily corruptible – one evil Imperator and a whole quarter of the charr race must follow his orders or risk death/becoming gladium).

FrostSpectre.4198:

While it might be bad that Charr reclaimed their homelands, it wasn’t justified for humans to do what they did since their arrival on Tyria…

You should read The Ecology of the Charr and not believe the modern charr’s biased sayings. Specifically this line: “No longer clamoring over the same territories, the unified Charr spread throughout the northern reaches of their homeland, and down into the lands east of the Shiverpeak Mountains. The Charr subjugated or destroyed any and all who dared defy them within their territories; they were masters of all they surveyed.” which proves that Ascalon was conquered by the charr. The original inhabitants arem ostly unknown, but there are heavy hints to dwarves and it’s known that grawl are native to Ascalon and were subdued by the charr.

FrostSpectre.4198:

Five out of six Gods directed humans to wage war and genocide against the Tyria’s original races, what a kitten move from the gods.

Please read this and this – you will find that you’re pretty much stating the opposite of what’s the case. Only Balthazar is outright stated to have wanted humanity to wage war. Melandru – the one you don’t count in that five – wanted peace. Dwayna, however, also wanted peace for humanity. Abaddon is known to have given magic to all sapient races, including the charr, equally but uniquely. The stance that Lyssa and Grenth/Dhuum had is unknown. It’s far from 5 out of 6 wanting to wage war.

It was. By both name and the sylvari-only dialogue. The sylvari PC, Trahearne, and Pale Tree all say it was the dragon from the Dream (aka Tutorial).

Anyways, I looked at an HD video of the vision and compared it to this image of the Shadow of the Dragon pulled out of the dat, and their wings look identical to me. Both have 4 main branches with 2 bushes of trees on each wing.

Yeah, they never make it clear how much time passes. But as Trahearne says during Forging the Pact, he has to go oversee Fort Trinity’s construction. I personally take each chapter (of which there are eight) to be about 1-3 weeks long overall (exception of Chapter 8 which is thrice as long as other chapters in terms of steps, so I presume thrice as long in terms of duration too), with the personal story beginning in early spring (as there are norn who mention not being able to reach the Great Hunt, aka norn tutorial, due to a winter storm, indicating that it took place in either the end of 1324 AE or the very beginning of 1325 AE). Since we have confirmation The Lost Shores happens post-Zhaitan, presumably Thorn makes his return afterwards as well, so the entirity of the personal story has to be less than 10 months since we now have the dates in the journal marking the whole thing as 1325 AE.

Sadly, the only time telling device we have in the personal story is Occam (or is it the tengu smith) saying during Victory or Death that the time since we last talked to him were “several weeks”. Which indicates anywhere between 3 weeks and 3 months (12 weeks); after 3 months it’d make more sense to say “several months” rather than “several weeks”.

If we were to take the Living Story’s timeframe (as silly as it is with the illogical constant desire and half- kitten d attempt to sync up the calendars) and apply it to the personal story, then it’d be 1 chapter = 2 weeks; and if we take chapter 8 (Temple of the Forgotten God to Victory or Death) to be thrice that due to being thrice the size, then the entirety of the Personal Story takes place over 20 weeks, with 8 weeks between Forging the Pact and Victory or Death (and a little less than 2 weeks between Forging the Pact and Battle of Fort Trinity), or 5 months in the entirety (which makes the norn’s comment make no sense but shrug – it’s obvious no thought was put into this other than “it all happens in the same year”).

If there is such it’d be an individual basis as there’s no reason presented for such being a common side-effect. An engineer who works a lot with powerful smelling liquids and doesn’t wash the smell off well frequently would no doubt smell to others, but this wouldn’t be the case for all engineers. This would just be a manner of lifestyle rather than one’s heroic profession and the magic they use.

There’s no indication of ‘harmful effects of mixing magic’ in the case of going from one profession to another – just that it’s a long and difficult study to begin learning how to use magic in another manner (being good with two magical professions was compared to having two doctorates degrees).

Wanderer.3248:

I don’t think that Sylvari immunity to corruption by Jormag, Kral, or Zhaitan needs any other explanation than that Sylvari Icebrood, Branded and (especially) Risen would have looked pretty stupid.

Plants can decompose and freeze, and we see Branded/Risen plants throughout the respective affected areas. So why would it look stupid, exactly?

Wanderer.3248:

It also differs substantially from the Shadow of the Dragon Mk1 in the Sylvari personal story.

You’re going to have to explain the difference to me, as they look identical to me.

All we have on it is:

“I know a ruined fort on the coast of Orr. It will take work to make it defensible, but from there we can strike directly at the heart of Zhaitan’s forces.” – Trahearne, Retribution

“To defeat Zhaitan and cleanse Orr, the Pact needs to go on the offensive. For that, we need a headquarters. I suggest the abandoned fortress on Terzetto Bay.” – Trahearne, Forging the Pact

“I know the place: formidable, easily defensible, and right on Zhaitan’s doorstep. A solid decision, Marshal Trahearne. The Vigil is with you.” – Warmaster Efut, Forging the Pact

“I’ll begin preparing our new headquarters at the Terzetto site, which I have code-named Fort Trinity. I look forward to seeing you all there.” – Trahearne, Forging the Pact

If you look at the construction itself, most of what we see is Pact-made. There are stone ruins beneath it, which is the ruined abandoned fortress that is talked about. Most likely, this old fortress was a later Orrian design and structure (as there are a few Orrian structures across that straight which aren’t made in the same design as those on the peninsula itself), and was most likely the first line of defense against invasion from the northeast (such as the charr in 1071 AE).

I always viewed that the strait was dubbed Terzetto Strait (or something akin) before the Cataclysm, and that the fortress was a double of defense for Orr, a checkpoint for ships going through, and a dock for any ships that would be going back and forth between the peninsula and where the fort is. And there appears to me to be another fort-like structure on the other side around Xenarius Bayt though this seems to be more of a land passage fort of sorts (which has never made much sense to me, that the charr would invade via an archipelagos – or that such even existed there given that there was trade to Amnoon Oasis! How would ships get through pre-sinking of Orr?).

Sol Eater reminds me – if only in name – to a certain GW1 boss…

Most of Episode 3 was open-world stuff anyways. So there’s few instances you actually miss. A grand total of 6 instances, and only 2 have any fighting in them, and 2 are insanely short with 0 exposition, the last 2 instances being short with exposition.

To tame a dragon minion, you must purify it. Bloodstones do not do this, as they can be corrupted by the Elder Dragons as we see in Arah’s Seer path.

Furthermore, dragon minions don’t grow into dragons.

Right, that’s what I was referring to as well. The dragon in the vision is the Shadow of the Dragon, not Kralkatorrik or The Shatterer.

The only lore there is about it is in the nearby events and NPC dialogues.

Basically, it’s an unknown object of magical power that transforms any non-animals (so plants, soil, etc.) into gold-like metal. It is at the time that Malchor’s Leap takes place, incorruptible by Zhaitan – though the Pact fears it would be corrupted if they didn’t take it to safety. The Inquest try messing with it, and if they succeed they’ll embue its magic into a golem which patrols north-to-south of the eastern part of the zone, with some interesting lines (“Must protect Orr” amongst them, iirc).

Personally, it reminds me of the Hall of Heroes and Hall of Ascension and how that’s all gold.

The Blue Orb didn’t dispel miasma – it prevents those who die near it to become risen. This golden orb is different in that it changes things, rather than prevents change.

Since it’s a big ball o’ magic, it likely wouldn’t be useful against Mordremoth – seeing how any magic near its vines seem to be consumed.

Aethelbert.1497:

Torsailr.8456:

Aethelbert.1497:

In terms of writing quality there is no such thing as “point of view”.

Um…what? Writing quality is not a 100% objective assessment, it is always influenced by your point of view. If you think something is good or bad, that is your point of view and not a universal fact.

Nothing is an objective assessment, unless it’s a science. Nonetheless, there are bad, unmemorable writers who made little to no impact on human cultere (if not damage), as well as examples of genius, forever to be remembered. Dare I ask you why?

I’ve read some masterpieces of literature in college, and I thought them to be dreadfully boring and horribly written. And yet there are people who love non-masterpieces that are horribly written (case in point: Twilight).

Whether one likes or dislikes a story, writing style, narrative, etc. is fully subjective. It’s a preference. Masterpieces of literature are merely pieces of literature which has had a majority of liking over disliking in a long enough time period that they survived the annals of time.

This being said, I find the problems with Guild Wars 2 currently being three-fold:

1. Writing.
2. Scheduling.
3. Economy.

This is ignoring the issues of things like unfixed exploits and design flaws (stacking, running past mobs in dungeons, zerker being exponentially overpowering), of course. The artistry – with some rare exception (Dry Top loading screen) are superb. The animations are fantastic. The music is glorious. The voice acting is… hit or miss, really, and the miss times tend to be an issue of writing.

I just cannot agree with the “biweekly releases for two/three months then break for two months” schedule we’ve been seeing. I’d rather have expansions that wouldn’t have middle-of-the-storyline breaks. I cannot agree with the continuous cases of “in hindsight, we could have worded that better” that I’m constantly seeing with the writing and the “apparent but not actually” contradictory lore that we’ve been seeing since Scarlet Briar’s reveal. And I certainly am finding it hard to agree with the apparent cases of ArenaNet’s management desiring “fast bucks over a long-lasting game” (the opinion I’ve formed from seeing many things in Anet’s economical decisions).

ArenaNet has made some great improvements with Season 2, but the writing is not one of them. The only improvement the writing has gotten, is open world dialogue and delivery.

Mentioning that ship made me realize: planned or not, that ship would have to be the Indomitable, as Sea of Sorrows says they were the only ship in the area. Unless my memory fails me – which is possible.

Erukk.1408:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

This is true.

And those vines are awfully close to the throat… are we sure they’re cuddling in kindness?

It would be hilarious if Mawdrey is Anet’s attempt at the original ending of Little Shop of Horrors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Shop_of_Horrors_(film)#Original_ending

ahem

saventis.1485:

now in the cut scene we see what looks like kralkatoric or one of his minnions (could be glints baby which would destroy this theory)
and the egg.

That dragon seen is the Shadow of the Dragon. It has the trees on its back and everything.

The risen are compulsive liars, don’t take their words with absolute certainty. There are also risen who say that Zhaitan has chosen them specifically (Kitah Conjurer, the Veteran Risen Wizard at the top of the Vizier’s Tower, etc.).

There’s a difference between “being directed by his will” and “being brainwashed into serving him.” By all indications, the Elder Dragons don’t give orders – they let their minions roam, and their champions do the ordering, expansions of territories, and the like. Zhaitan may be ‘ordering’ (in the loosest sense of the word) the champions to do certain things, but it’s less of being “directed by his will” and more of the corruption brainwashing them to do only that which serves him – by all appearances at least.

But as we see in Arah explorable – which takes place after his defeat – the risen still act as if he’s alive and kicking, and continue to praise him and work for him.

Nothing really says the minions are “directed by his will”, by the way.

Shiren.9532:

Sylvari vulnerability to Mordremoth also appears to be unique.

I would argue against this. Mordremoth’s corruption to sylvari is described and shown thus far to be very similar to Jormag’s corruption of Svanir and Jora. Jormag first seduces with promises of power, prey, strength, etc. and then corrupts – whereas Kralkatorrik and Zhaitan corrupted to enslave. Mordremoth seems similar, giving gifts of knowledge instead of power, and corrupting through cracks in a sylvari’s will.

Just as Jormag targets norn due to their desire of power and legend, Mordremoth targets sylvari because they’re naive and wish to learn. That’s my interpretation. The sylvari being plants is of course a plus, but we don’t see corrupted treants (yet) so I think it’s nothing more than “a plus”.

Shiren.9532:

Mawdrey sets a precedent for cleansing Elder Dragon corruption, at least for Mordremoth through a process of breeding without Forgotten rituals.

In an “interview”: it is said that corruption magic is relatively unknown, that specific geographical locations and unique magic are needed to cleanse it. We gather a lot of materials, three of hwich are tied directly or indirectly to ley lines. Each item we upgrade requires a specific location or object to upgrade. While the magic may be different, we still seem to perform a ritual – just not The Forgotten’s Ritual.

Shiren.9532:

How does the new information inform our understand of what’s possible and what isn’t possible (remember not all Elder Dragons work the same way, Mordremoth especially), and how it all relates to the seemingly different stories being told.

Glint, Zephyrites, sylvari/Mordremoth, Bloodstone… In all honesty, I’m getting a huge sense of “ArenaNet is trying very hard to please the playerbase after the uproars of Season 1 by shoving everything players have been heavily speculating on/enjoying into Season 2.”

Erukk.1408:

It should be noted that none of the descriptions says Mawdrey is ever cleansed of the dragon corruption. Only that it has grown attached to you. So we can’t really make a definitive statement either way on regards to it.

This is true.

And those vines are awfully close to the throat… are we sure they’re cuddling in kindness?

Erukk.1408:

Though it might be different in Mordy’s case, I think I remember reading that a Sylvari’s body withers when effected by dragon corruption, leaving it unsuitable in any sort meaningful way.

That’s when they die. In Ghosts of Ascalon, Killeen’s body withers and blackens within seconds, no dragon corruption was involved – she was just crushed to death.

Shiren.9532:

Cue Konig’s aneurysm (sorry).

HHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRRRRRRRNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG.

There, cued.

Shiren.9532:

So it was touched by Mordremoth but the purification process and the care of a Tyria hero resulted in it not being a killer vine.

Teeeeechnically, the description says appearing, not that it was.

Shiren.9532:

Now all the Pale Tree is a champion of Mordremoth “theories” have run into road blocks but it seems like season two is consistently dismantling them.

And yet, from what I see, season two is adding to them. Mawdrey is the only form of potential support for the theory I see, and it holds two major flaws:

1. Mawdrey and Mordremoth’s corruption is taking the form of vines. The Pale Tree is a great White Oak tree. I BEG you guys to explain this – despite all the evidences of Mordremoth’s corruption being VINES and CARNIVOROUS FLOWERS, with no sign of trees, fruits, or humanoids, the theory continues. There’s no aesthetic similarity to be had.
2. We give Mawdrey a LOT of magical artifacts, some of which are tied indirectly to the Forgotten (Mists stone), some are tied to unknown magic (Pile of Phantasmal Essence), and some are directly tied to purification (Vial of Purified Glacial Water, Vial of Mending Oasis Water). Any one of these – or even the combination of these – could hold similar effects to the Forgotten’s ritual.

Shiren.9532:

• Sylvari are created quickly similar to a dragon army (think Primordius) and share an empathic bond.

Primordus actually creates them rather slowly. And the sylvari bond is not a hive mind, while dragon minions’ are.

Shiren.9532:

• Scarlet entered Omadd’s device with the Entity already with her (presumed to be Mordremoth) and while Vorpp suggests all creatures have a mental protection, the Pale Tree recently suggested that Scarlet lost a sylvari connection that was not the same as a normal mind’s mental protection.

As sylvari players are told by the Pale Tree at the beginning of the third episode (The Dragon’s Reach: Part 1), Scarlet Briar had forsaken the Pale Tree before even entering the machine, and that is when Mordremoth began to attack her mind. The machine just gave him better access, apparently, as she furthered away from the Pale Tree.

Shiren.9532:

• The Pale Tree explicitly states she is protecting the sylvari from the dragon’s influence – no-one is doing this for humans, charr, asura or norn (afaik) so something about sylvari makes them vulnerable (their connection to the Dream).

How do you come to this conclusion, exactly? Humans, charr, asura, and norn are all vulnerable. The Pale Tree’s protection removes that vulnerability that all other races have, in that they cannot be corrupted. Only Mordremoth is capable – likely due to his plant affiliation – of bypassing this protection.

Shiren.9532:

So far it’s assumed by some that Scarlet and Aerin have been corrupted by Mordremoth and that is done when sylvari are cut off from the Pale Tree. This is important first to infer that Mordremoth has exclusively targeted sylvari because the sylvari have a unique connection to Mordremoth another race wouldn’t have (Scarlet brought the Entity with her – via the Dream). It’s also important because it arguably disproves one of the major points discrediting this idea – that sylvari can’t be corrupted,they can be – by Mordremoth (which could explain why no other dragon can corrupt a sylvari like they can’t corrupt other dragon’s minions).

Well Scarlet being corrupted is point-blank stated by the Pale Tree (and again, implied to have begun before she entered the machine). The Pale Tree’s dialogue also infers that she was the prevention measure. Furthermore, nothing says that Elder Dragons cannot corrupt another dragons’ minions – why do people think this when there is absolutely nothing to point to this? And everyone who thinks it says that it’s been proven fact! Such oddity!

Shiren.9532:

Mordremoth’s first champion, the Shadow of the Dragon, was corrupting the Dream. Caithe claims it’s the Nightmare (which could be Mordremoth related) but we now know it’s a real dragon champion and not indicative of Zhaitan.

It could be both, actually…

I don’t think Mawdrey (and its two precursor vines) are really needing Bloodstone pieces to grow, but rather the magic in it.

Look at all the other items you craft to grow the plants. From ley line stones/dust, to chaos magic orbs, Mists stones, even phantasmal dust and destroyer essence. Every single component other than the food is magical – and before feeding the plant the food, you embue it with magic.

Feeding it Bloodstone dust is really just ArenaNet doing two things:

1. Having us feed dragon minions magic and…
2. Creating that Bloodstone Dust sink that all the champ farmers have been begging for for months.

According to Arah explorable, the risen remain unaltered after Zhaitan’s defeat. This indicates that corruption isn’t a maintained effect, but permanent.

Given Tequatl’s power boost though, something has been happening with the Risen. And I we tie this in with the Temple’s priests’ power boost way back when, and the increased size of Orrian risen models… Well, make what you will out of such connections – my theory has been (since Tequatl Rising) that Zhaitan’s magic is still connected to his minions but without Zhaitan to drain them of magic to feed, or maintain the connection, they’re siphoning off of the magic becoming more powerful over time.

And champions are capable of creating other champions – Drakkar, a champion of Jormag, created Svanir, another champion of Jormag. With the risen’s case post-Zhaitan, there is theoretically simply less corruption to spread and make new minions – so there are, again theoretically, a finite amount of new risen capable of being made.

But given that the Living Story has yet to focus on the risen, we just simply don’t know. Because ArenaNet can only handle one plot at a time, and their attempts to handle more turn into Secret of Southsun and The Dragon’s Reach: Part 1.

There is no way to replay it. They said they intend to eventually, but you may as well be waiting for it to be finished in… never.

In the game, there are various dialogues about how the air is different – thicker, denser, etc. – and claiming it’s part of Zhaitan’s magic and influence over the area (this description is also used in other areas with heavy risen concentration, mainly swamps). And you can even see this in the game itself. So there is some merit to the sailors’ descriptions of Orr.

As for the Lich Lord’s mostly-skeletal army, I always took those as those not submerged, and that Zhaitan’s magic does restore some flesh (he corrupts ancient dead whom were buried in tombs as well, such as Mazdak, after all).

According to the novel Sea of Sorrows:

“They say the water there is as black as night, like ink’s been poured in the waves. It never gets lighter, and the sun never warms it. Sailors have used Orrian water to freeze things even in the Maguuma Jungle’s heat. Just one drop turns meat into jerky. A canteen could ice over even the fires of Sorrow’s Furnace!” Page 44 and 45

If that were true, then you can bet your kitten that corpses would be preserved in it. And given the rest of the description of the waters and sky over sunken Orr, it seems that Zhaitan or the Cataclysm had effects ever since it sunk.

It’s above the new waypoint, on the cliffs directly above (literally, the Mordrem can just jump down the cliff’s edge and swarm the little refugee camp).

It’s pointblank stated that whatever would be left of Abaddon was absorbed by Kormir – so if Abaddon had a soul, it’s within Kormir’s body, but his will is broken. As she says “his knowledge, his power, but not him. His will is broken.”

I always took it as when their bodies are destroyed their soul, imbued with divine power, goes rampant and threatens to explode – unless absorbed by another, during which there’s a war of wills and whomever loses, loses for eternity.

xoz.2481:

Well this guy has been just hanging here for over a month without the slightest sign of Mordremoth’s corruption.

I never said all those killed by Mordremoth would be turned into puppets. :P

Retsuko.2035:

Anyways, wouldnt it make sense if each dragon can only corrupt a certain being or element. For example, zhaitan corrupted the death (dont ask me about sylvari here) into risen, mordremoth might only be able to corrupt flora? Primordus can only corrupt things from rock and lava?

Jormag and kralkatorrik can corrupt living creatures though.

Zhaitan can corrupt the living just as he can corrupt plants (just one case of many for the latter). Jormag’s known for corrupting corpses, living beings, and inanimate objects. Primordus is said to be capable of corrupting living beings, though we don’t see any such cases.

The Elder Dragons can corrupt anything, but they apparently choose to only corrupt certain fields.

It was explained in an interview that it was a minion from the previous dragonrise, not corrupted after Zhaitan rose this time.

And being submerged in ice-cold water like the waters of Orr after the Cataclysm could easily preserve dead flesh from rotting, especially if there’s a lack of oxygen in the water.

It should be noted that even the freshest of corpses turn rotten and decayed – even in the novels – when corrupted by Zhaitan. So the rotten and decayed appearance is more of Zhaitan’s corruption rather than “they were corpses already.” Just like how Jormag’s minions get covered in ice – it’s magical transformations. Not biology.

Firstly, Kudu was ever only a high ranking individual of the Inquest. He was not the leader, just the head of the draconic energies research (which presumably got a replacement after CoE).

As Thalador said, the two Shinji suggests are dead (and were mid-ranking individuals in the first place).

We actually don’t know who runs the Inquest – we never did. Their leadership is about as mysterious as the Consortium’s and as the identities of the leaders of the Molten Alliance and Toxic Alliance.

Everyone! Stop crafting the new backpack of Mawdrey and Mawdrey II! It’s a trap, a trap to doom Tyria!

Don’t you think it’s odd? ArenaNet, before Season 2, began said that they want player choice to be bigger in Season 2 than Season 1 (where we had the election). But where is that choice? It certainly isn’t obvious. But what can ArenaNet monitor so well that not everyone doing the main story will do? It’s obvious, right? It’s the backpacks! Crafting, or not crafting, the backpacks will affect the future of the Living Story. How, you might ask? Why would this bring about the doom of Tyria? Because they’ll overgrow us and take over in the name of Mordremoth!

In 4 months time, when ArenaNet has had a chance to analize the results and build upon them, the backpacks will grow and the lies of their description being kind and cuddly will be revealed. They will stretch those tendrils around our characters necks and strangle them like they have done to so many NPCs around the world, and our characters will not be revive-able – for they are no longer knocked out like the defeated state, they are dead, and resurrection magic doesn’t exist anymore. Then with the heroes of Tyria gone, Mordremoth’s forces will spread ever eastward, a new day a new zone! And if most instances of the map doesn’t push back Mordremoth’s forces, they’ll take over. But because of all the backpacks, there won’t be enough level 80s to eliminate the threat in Dry Top, our characters that we’ll have to remake will be too low level to do anything in Brisban, and when they reach Rata Sum – no more asuran characters! When they reach the Grove – no more sylvari characters! Divinity’s Reach? The same! Hoelbrak and Black Citadel! You guessed it! And then, when Mordremoth’s forces inevitable encroach on the last bastions of Tyria, Ebonhawke and Deathblade’s Watch, and they fall, the PvE servers, and the game will be nothing but WvW and sPvP. The world of Tyria will be Mordremoth’s vineyard.