Guild Wars 2

Necromancer minions are undead in the fact that they’re scrambling constructs of flesh and bone. What they come from were once living, but the minions themselves never were, because they’re constructs.

And he is called the undead dragon because of his minions. Don’t believe me? Read this.

I’ll quote:
→Death: Zhaitan (1219 AD)
Zhaitan’s awakening caused the once-lost island nation of Orr to rise from the sea, flooding many coastal lands in the process.
→ Keep reading.
More accurately a master of the undeath, Zhaitan has the ability to convert corpses into minions with his very breath.

He’s called the Elder Death Dragon, Elder Undeath Dragon, etc. because he is a master of the undeath. Just as Jormag is of ice, and Primordus of fire, and Kralkatorrik is of crystal.

From the update notes:

Chapter Focus:

• Chapter 7 is now focused on helping Trahearne cleanse Orr.
• Chapter 8 is now focused on defeating Zhaitan.

Apparently they removed the entire fear storyline (the story steps between Forging the Pact and The Battle of Fort Trinity).

So I went onto my thief which had completed the PS and now it’s set up as:

Chapter 7:
Forging the Pact -> The Battle of Fort Trinity -> Against the Corruption -> Cathedral of Silence/Romke’s Last Voyage -> The Source of Orr

Chapter 8:
Temple of the Forgotten God -> Through the Looking Glass / Close the Eye -> What the Eye Beholds -> Estate of Decay / Starving the Beast -> A Grisly Shipment / Ossuary of Unquiet Dead -> Further into Orr -> (subsequent storylines) -> Victory or Death

This makes no sense. Why did they remove an entire story chapter and shuffle Chapter 8 around? I don’t think it’d make any sense now for The Source of Orr, as now we’re fighting the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan before we fight regular Eye of Zhaitan and learn about it?

Is there a purpose behind this? Has the entire story involved changed? This makes no sense!

Apatia’s story was one of the best parts of the PS, imo, especially the latter, and the division of them was implemented so well with the Pale Tree asking players what their fear was and creating a division based off of that.

And now we’re going into the Cursed Shore via “air drop” well before we invade into Cursed Shore with the army. And the entire point of Chapter 7 previously was to obtain benefits for the army (the Blue Orb, recruits, etc.) while Fort Trinity was being built, but now it’s suddenly built just like that… It’s not even a division between story chapters for the gap, it’s just… there.

I just… what?

Can someone from ArenaNet please explain this to me, as I am truly baffled.

The locket shows the heir of Kryta, but nothing said that Jennah wasn’t the proper heir – just that for not-explained reasons, the locket is kept in transport between various forts (even non-Krytan ones placed in the wilderness and frontlines, given that it was in the two Timberline forts… which is completely logical to have them there rather than, say, the royal treasury).

The only thing about Ascalon heir in the lore other than Wade Samuelsson being a descendant of the kings is that human rumors claim the “true king of Ascalon” will be able to end the Foefire.

Hmm, true, forgot about that line. Though the subsequent line (“Hmm. Yet the mursaat took their knowledge and fled into a half-world, out of phase with our own. They would have let the rest of the world die just to save themselves.”) indicates that the mursaat’s involvement in the alliance was short-lived. Sounds like they only joined in order to gain what the other races offered and then fled the world.

Jaken.6801:

What was Scarlets real goal?

It seems to me that while she was corrupted, she was more akin to Kellach than any other dragon minion/champion – in that she was fighting for control, and trying to fight against her new master, while being fooled into doing exactly what he wanted her to do anyways.

Who is Mister E?

We simply don’t know, but we have been told that we will find out who E is by the end of Season 2.

What are Kasmeers powers and why does she have them?
In S1 Kasmeer was stung with something in the Tower of Nightmares . From this point on she supposedly showed an unknown power, right now manifesting in the ability to see if someone is lying or telling the truth.
So far this power was used two times and mostly in a rather arbitary way, which was basic profiling instead some mystic power. Is there more to it?

Kasmeer’s powers seem to just be standard mesmer. I don’t think that her powers are really caused by that scratch in the Tower of Nightmares, because she managed to do a powerful feat alone prior to that (dispelled the veil around the tower) and prior to that action we never see her in action. There’s really no reason to believe she was not-powerful in the first place. If I had to guess, the tipping point for her would have been the Scarlet’s End instance, where she basically goes berserk and starts summoning illusions like crazy. More of a self-made psychological block than any external influence – she did seem unsure of herself prior to Scarlet’s End, and seeing what she did then likely made her realize “wow, I’m better than I thought! I should stop looking so down on myself”. Motivation and self-esteem tend to be heavy motivators on things that are based on willpower – like magic seems to be.

Also, we see her strong powers in more than two cases. While her “ability to tell lies” that Angel McCoy claimed is magic (though in-game is portrayed in a way that standard people in reality use) has only been used twice in the plot, that’s not all of her “powerful abilities”. In Scarlet’s End we see her creating 5 illusions at once – and not even phantasoms. In Trouble at Fort Salma, she spams Time Warp like a crackhead going after the drugs on the table. And there’s the previously mentioned Tower of Nightmare’s veil removal.

Overall, Kasmeer just seems to be a powerful mesmer… which we have plenty of (Jennah, Anise, and now Kasmeer).

Vision 1: What Scarlet Saw?

All we really know is that what we see in S2 is what Scarlet saw. Sadly, it seems Anet’s intent to have a sense of “mystery” in their plot by not telling us players kitten while our own characters are apparently geniuses who get it all instantly but don’t share with their controller. In short: we still don’t know, not entirely, and this is intention, and this is not mysterious in any way.

Vision 2: The Pale Trees Vision

This vision appears to be Mordremoth’s plot’s version of A Light in the Darkness, but a lot more vague because the Pale Tree is weakened. It stands to reason we’ll find out more about it, though maybe not entirely.

The Medalion and the true heir*
In S2 they mentioned a magical medalion which shows the true heir of Kryta. Right now Queen Jenna is on the throne, but it is said, that she is not a the truthfull heir.

Erm, it’s nowhere said Jennah’s not the true heir.

I suggest that Primordus stirred shortly after the seed was planted and in response to it. I believe that the tree is consuming large amounts of Tyria’s magic and that the dragons are trying to prevent this. Sylvari are doing something similar to what the mursaat did during the last Elder Dragon rise – they are removing sizeable portions of magic from Tyria. (Interestingly enough, Abaddon’s fall was somehow linked to the mursaat. I wonder if the mursaat created an imbalance in the magical system that led to the “fall” of Abaddon. Anyway, one can only conject.)

So the Elder Dragons are trying to prevent the Pale Tree from doing exactly what they themselves do? That makes little sense to me. Furthermore, if this was so, then why wouldn’t Zhaitan attack the Pale Tree, which was defenseless for roughly 80 years after Zhaitan’s waking? Doesn’t add up.

Furthermore, nothing said that the mursaat removed portions of magic – I presume you mean seers. Abaddon’s fall is not linked – directly – to either mursaat or seers; the connection is via the Bloodstone, as Abaddon gifted too much magic to the world (releasing it from the Bloodstone) and the other gods redacted some of his gift – disagreements and wars ensued, followed by Abaddon’s fall.

Conclusion

I’ll add my own hypothesis of the timeline of the previous Dragonrise later.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

At least one of the dragons never was alive. It’s Zhaitan which probably even was created as an undead. I think the term living elder dragon might have to get defined more precise to talk about a dead dragon. On a closer observation it is possible that the undead orrian dragon which never was alive got taken out of the game in form of a “dead” undead elder dragon (revived by risen).
But after all we do not have proof to say for sure, we don’t even have evidence to say that one of them died.

Nothing states that Zhaitan is actually undead. He’s called the Elder Undead Dragon because his corruption takes the form of undeath. Just as Jormag is called the Elder Ice Dragon because his corruption takes the form of ice. There’s no reason to believe that Jormag is ice, or the Primordus is fire, or Kralkatorrik is crystal (especially given that they have scales), or Mordremoth to be a plant (despite Taimi’s theory that the large vines are Mordremoth itself, what we saw in the cinematic was scales and bones, not plant).

Aside from his rotten appearance – which could be just an effect of hte magic it uses – there’s no reason to believe Zhaitan himself is undead, and if he was, there’s even less reason to believe he was always undead (which would be a paradox anyways, as “undead” means that it was once dead but isn’t any longer – and to be once dead, one has to have once been living).

The State Of Tyria Immediately Before The Elder Dragons Awoke
-snip-

The war between mursaat and seer actually seems to be done during the Elder Dragon rise itself, as we were told that the war occurred around the same time as the Tome of Rubicon’s writing – which contains information about the previous Dragonrise (my own term for it based off of the chapter in Edge of Destiny when Kralkatorrik wakens). We are also told in-game that the mursaat fled the world during said previous Dragonrise, and only returned recently “as the Unseen Ones.” This means that there would be no time between the Elder Dragons falling asleep and Prophecies for the war to be waged and be ancient as the seer in Prophecies proclaimed. Ergo, the war had to be that act of betrayal by the mursaat mentioned.

The reasons for this could have been many:

• The mursaat had the most effective means of fighting the Elder Dragons – they’re invincible, effectively, while they’re “phased out” (invisible to the non-Ascended eye, which includes modern risen as we experience in Arah mursaat path).
• The seers were planning on sealing all magic away – that would include the mursaat’s own magic, thus making them vulnerable.
• The mursaat have a long standing history of being selfish kittens and Operative Brie hints that the mursaat fled with the intention of returning to rule the world (" We’ve only just begun. With this knowledge, we can become like the mursaat themselves! We will leave this world to the Dragons, and then return and rule once they sleep again.").

Seeing the world as lost and fleeing, not wanting to use their best defense/offense and betraying-then-fleeing, fleeing with the intention of ruling when the Elder Dragons fell sated (but misjudging how much time it’d take). Any of these are possibilities beyond the also possible “they never got along with the other races”.

I believe that the planting of the seed of the Pale Tree caused the Elder Dragons to awaken.

I cannot see this as likely. Both Primordus and Jormag was already trying to awaken – via their champions (The Great Destroyer and Drakkar respectively) – by the time that the Pale Tree were a mere seedling, and given story context this could have been happening much longer, unknown to us players or those our PCs interacted with, given that they (the champions) began working in lands none interacted with (often/at the time).

And the Pale Tree as a seedling had little influence by all indication, let alone something powerful enough to trigger the Elder Dragons’ awakening. This is doubly so when we’ve been explicitly stated on multiple occasions that the Elder Dragons rise when the ambient magic in the world reaches a certain point. They wake up to feed – it seems to be like when you’re sleeping, and you start smelling bacon. You wake up, in a daze, sooner than you would otherwise, feeling hungry because you smelled delicious food.

At this time, we have no definitive date as to when the seed was planted, although “The Movement Of The World” does suggest a date around the year 1075AE. We believe that Ronan’s village was assaulted by the mursaat, and as per a thread by leading members of our lore community (-snipped-) it is posited that the last time the mursaat were sighted was 1078AE. Now, Ronan’s patrol may have taken him away from his village for days, weeks, months – even years. However, it seems reasonable to conclude that his patrol would not have taken him more than five years to complete. Thus, the mursaat may well have attacked the village prior to 1080AE. This means that the seed was probably planted between 1075AE and 1080AE.

It would have to be between 1067 – the earliest mention of the White Mantle (they predate the Shining Blade) – and 1078, when we see the Pale Tree as a well-grown sapling. Given the size, 1075 works well, however the mursaat were mostly wiped out in 1072, thus that year (1072) would make a far better candidate. There was only 8 mursaat after 1072 (known at least), and only one (known) after 1079.

Stephen.6312:

What really happened during the last Elder Dragon rise? Can we learn anything from what we already know about it, or at least think that we know? Tyria’s historians believe that the dragons last awoke around ten thousand years ago; they also believe that five races – the dwarves, jotun, seers, murssat, and forgotten – formed an alliance to fight them. Apparently, these five emerged from the conflict. Other races weren’t quite so fortunate. The giganticus lupicus – various gigantic races thought to live in Tyria at that time – didn’t make it. Scholars speculate that they were rendered functionally extinct by Elder Dragon predation.

Technically, it’s never said that the five surviving sapient races (more on that in a bit) formed an alliance. It is said that the mursaat betrayed the seers, but that’s as much of an alliance we have indication of.

A bit nitpicky: it’s also not “five races vs. six dragons” – rather, it’s “five sentient races that survived”. We know of at least one (potentially group of) race(s), the giganticus lupicus, that lived and fought and died during that time. There’s indications to believe there were more races that survived, but no concrete evidence there.

The giganticus lupicus weren’t exactly pushovers. Their makeshift graveyard, a desert of crystal sands, presents skeletons sizable enough to make more than enough trouble for Elder Dragons. Nor were the spell-casters of the five races to be trifled with. The seers forged the bloodstone in an attempt to store large amounts of magic; the forgotten cleansed a powerful dragon minion, Glint; and the mursaat successfully hid themselves. Clearly, the Elder Dragons had one hell of a fight on their hands. It’s hard to imagine that they didn’t take casualties.

Food for thought:

Many giganticus lupicus bones in the Crystal Desert/Desolation are of draconic appearance. What if those are bones of dragon champions (icebrood, branded, and risen all retain their bone structures by appearance, if they be corrupted former beings).

It’s also possible that those non-cyborg-canine g-lupes were wildlife – without civilization and thus, organized society or military. Not much of a threat to the Elder Dragons.

By setbacks, I mean the death of at least one Elder Dragon. Even if we ignore the magical prowess of the five races, the giganticus lupicus must have been more than a match for the serpents. But if you need further convincing, imagine the combination of the giganticus lupicus and the five races fighting the dragons. In my opinion, therefore, at least one Elder Dragon did die during the last rise.

There’s really nothing to indicate any sort of alliance amongst the races – let alone the G-Lupe and the other races. In fact, that feels like the entire underlying presence of the storyline – past civilizations failed due to betrayals and non-cooperative efforts. We know nothing of the non-canine G-Lupe, other than their gargantuan size, thus saying that they had to have been a match for the Elder Dragons is, by far, fallacious.

And of the one kind of G-Lupe we know of, while powerful this thing would pale to a non-starved Elder Dragon.

Furthermore, I think that if there was an Elder Dragon that died, there’d be mention of more than just a “sextant of swallowers” that are said to have “consumed the world several times over”. If there were ever more than six, then the jotun creation myths would contain more than just six.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scholar_Caterin

If one of them died, it would likely be Zhaitan – who at the time wouldn’t have been an undead dragon himself, if such were so. But I’m doubtful.

The Straw That Broke The Camel’s Back
-snip section-

A peculiar hypothesis, but you don’t seem to be able to base it off of anything, other than the final acts of the races, which is very little to go by.

We see no indication of an even fighting field in the least, nor would I argue such to be the case, in all honesty.

The avatar never claims she’s a physical thing.

Saying “this body” is more than a physical flesh-and-blood body of a creature, but can include to mean a group, or an appearance. That case is, quite clearly to me, the latter – appearance.

And even then, even if there was a retcon to make the avatar physical – which seems to be the case, unfortunately – then there is still no reason why the wardens would rush to the avatar to mend it, when it is explicitly stated on many levels that the sylvari – and by the Avatar’s explanation of her role, anyone in general – can hear the Pale Tree without the avatar as a disembodied voice (such as we see via Dream and Nightmare where the avatar doesn’t event exist yet).

It would of made more sense if the wardens got up there, the avatar disappeared as she said she was (she said she was fading), saying something along the lines of being unable to hear her and go about mending the tree itself.

Kurrilino.2706:

So you guys tell me it’s cool……..

Zaithan…. turns people into minons.. fighting group don’t wanna fight….
you make them fight…. defeat Dragon

2nd Dragon…. living beings into minons.. fighting group don’t wanna fight….
you make them fight…. defeat Dragon

3rd Dragon…. turns living beings into minons.. fighting group don’t wanna fight….
you make them fight…. defeat Dragon

4th Dragon…. turns living beings into minons.. fighting group don’t wanna fight….
you make them fight…. defeat Dragon

5th Dragon…. turns living beings into minons.. fighting group don’t wanna fight….
you make them fight…. defeat Dragon

jeeezzz…. and i was wondering how A-Net can pull stuff like this without people going on riot.
You guys are so easy to entertain.

This argument is like saying “Peanut Butter has a brownish look to it. Therefore, it must taste like feces.”

You look merely at the top layer. Each Elder Dragon is different. They corrupted differently, they corrupted different subjects, they attack differently, they even instill different personalities into their minions, with different designs for their minions, and so forth.

Zhaitan had uniting the Orders – three groups that were already fighting the Elder Dragons, just separately because they think their method is best until the PC and Trahearne – individuals respected by all three orders – came up with a crazy plan that happened to work.

Mordremoth has uniting the nations, which don’t focus on any Elder Dragon – not beyond any threats to their own homeland (Branded for Charr, Icebrood for Norn). But even that is just a minor point, and poorly done by the writing.

The next dragon may have no uniting theme to it. You can’t tell. And even then, even if it does, there’s still a vast difference in how the Elder Dragons strike, corrupt, and need to be fought. You haven’t even seen the entirety of the second dragon storyline, yet you’re saying “it’s all the same.”

But even despite all this, this is far from the lore of the Elder Dragons – it’s the direction of the plot, which is entirely different. ArenaNet, especially since the Living World started up, is not the best at fleshing out stories, but they have created a world rich with lore – Elder Dragons included. Try to look beyond the surface, so you know what you’re talking about, and you don’t come off as an obvious troll next time, perhaps.

As far as I know, it was a China-only special miniature. We may never get it.

@Swish: Tomorrow’s feature batch is including a lot of features that were placed in China’s release version, and is only now getting to us. From rewards for leveling to improved PS rewards and united guild chapters, content direction system, and more. The trait system we got in April was also from China, but I guess they needed more time for the rest of it.

Hopefully, they won’t ever bring the VIP stuff over to NA/EU. That was a terrible choice even for China, imo.

1) ArenaNet has stated, multiple times, that they do intend to make Season 1 permanent content. The issue is that it was mostly open world content, and not designed in the first place for the story journals, thus it will take time and effort to translate the content from one format to the other. It’ll take time, and it’s not a high priority – Season 2 is. I’m hopeful that the third feature batch (given rate of things, likely to be released January 27th, I’m betting) will contain Season 1 – and maybe the PS – in permanent, repeatable fashion akin to Season 2.

Until then, you’d just have to find a S1 summary online. One I’d suggest is: http://guildmag.com/magazine/issue11/season_one_summary_story.htm

2) This was a known problem and the writers – specifically Bobby Stein – explained that it was meant to be that, as a commander of the Pact our PCs would know of the dragons name since knowledge of the dragon is relatively known by the Priory (which would also thus explain Marjory’s knowledge of it, being an inactive Priory member). In the end, they responded with “in hindsight, we could have done better.”

Don’t know this Leah Hoyer, or any previous works she did. So I’ll hold my judgment on whether this is a good thing or a bad thing (it’d be bad, imo, if there was a great discontinuity formed by hiring a writer who doesn’t know the lore of the game and doesn’t ensure that there’s no discontinuity in what she writes).

Though I am highly curious if she’s replacing someone, or if they are just expanding the team.

@Roybe: I highly doubt that a Narrative Designer would work with merchandising. Either she’ll be working on the main story, a backburner main story, open world dialogue, or a novel. But I’m guessing your comment of merchandising was a bit of a joke.

kta.6502:

Yes. Look at the first two screenshots below. I don’t know about you, but I see a comatose body lying before my character. If she were a spirit (like the Ascalonian ghosts), she would of disappeared AFTER she went down. When the Ascalonian ghosts are slain, they disappear immediately.

BTW, if the Tree’s avatar is a spirit, how come she’s breathing? Spirits don’t need air, and they don’t go into comas either.

But that’s the entire point of the discussion.

She shouldn’t be in such a state, because the avatar’s a spirit. The state of unconsciousness is where the continuity error comes into play, hence the entire argument in the firstplace.

It is not proof, it is the point of confusion and discontinuity.

How is it proof to take the matter of debate for whether or not the new release is breaking continuity or not, by presenting said new release? It isn’t, plain and simple.

kta.6502:

As for what the Pale Tree herself says, remember that she is also Ceara’s mother. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

In this case, it rather does, as Ceara – much like Cadeyrn – intentionally went away from the Pale Tree.

And that’s like saying the Pale Tree is akin to one in ten thousand children. What about those other 9,999 sylvari which are not akin to Ceara in the least?

You are presenting a screwed viewpoint in order to support your argument, and this does not work.

kta.6502:

Just because a company is based in America, doesn’t mean that its workers are from the US. American business is global these days. It’s also common for Seattle companies to hire folks from around the world. One of the devs I met in-game comes from outside the country.

Then explain how everything else in the entire game ever is written with American English? You really think that one single dialogue will be written differently than all the rest without exception?

Again, that’s a screwed and poor argument.

kta.6502:

We are on global servers after all, and both societies are extremely diverse these days. Some players see the Tree’s avatar as a spirit. Others see her as a physical being. Then there are folks who think the avatar is both spirit and a physical being. Folks are taking the word manifestation to mean different things. We do need the writers to clear up this situation.

It doesn’t matter where in the world players are. It doesn’t matter what player interpretation is.

What matters is what the writers themselves write. And thus the entire point of the debate. Because the Pale Tree is first presented to be spiritual – despite interpretation otherwise – but is then, somehow, someway, suddenly seeming to be physical. It’s a discontinuity. A contradiction. Hence the entire argument.

You don’t even seem to understand the very point of why this entire discussion was made, yet you made a thread to settle it with “proof” that is, in the end, what raised the discussion in the first place.

kta.6502:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

adozu.6398:

i also remember how an asura turned us into an avatar of balthazar to fight off the undead in lion’s arch, i dunno, that’s another great opportunity wasted for humans to do… something? (granted that was the best transform in the game)

Though the ritual – while led by Gixx – was performed by four human “ritualists”.

Of course, one of them flubbed up killing herself and the others. Leaving only Gixx alive, because he didn’t mess up his end of the ritual – wait, what?

Actually, Adozu is referring to the Personal Story step titled “The Ghost Rite” (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ghost_Rite). In that story, the Priory PC has to wear a suit of armor that transforms him/her into an Avatar of Balthazar. The goal is to avenge Magister’s Seiran’s death. Of course, Gixx doesn’t tell the character about the ritual’s side effect until the end of this short story.

I swear, Steward Gixx runs the Priory as if it’s his own Asuran krewe.

“Actually,” so was I…

>.> It’s the only ritual Gixx performs in-game, and the only one involving an avatar of Balthazar. TYVM, I know what I’m talking about.

We see in the sylvari whispers level 28 story step that centaurs do indeed know that the risen are a threat – how they treat other dragon minions is unknown, the only other they’d interact with would be potentially destroyers, and icebrood, but we dont’ see any such interaction in-game. They are likely in a state like most of Tyria – they’re too far away from the Elder Dragons so they think that of them merely as a distant threat. The centaurs have much bigger concerns: such as having no land to really call their own any more (thanks to humanity and the drying of the Maguuma, and probably Jormag).

The war with humans hasn’t concluded yet. It’s a tug-o-war currently, supposedly centered in Harathi Hinterlands though there’s a line in the World Summit (finale of chapter 4 of Season 2) that suggests this tug-o-war is across all maps with centaurs in it. It isn’t very clear.

“What do you know about them?” Other than the questions above:

• They once lived in the lands now known as Kryta, specifically the northern parts by all indications. In 300 AE, they were displaced by the colonization by Elona, and spreading of Kryta. They’ve been at war with humanity since. There are three Tyrian tribes known: Modniir, Harathi, and Tamini. Until the past 50 years, the Modniir were living in the Shiverpeaks, the Harathi in the Maguuma, and Tamini were a nomad tribe that moved about.
• 250 years ago, during GW1, the war with the centaurs had calmed down, having not been shown in the game itself directly. During that time period, Modniir and Harathi attempted an alliance to renew their war but the initial negotiations were prevented by our PCs; similarly, around that time the modniir were mostly wiped out by humans and norn – supposedly “during this quest”: – it took them 200 years to reorganize, and subsequently they dominated the other two tribes (Harathi and Tamini) into their allegiance.
• Centaurs’ faith is based on the earth and soil, they hold a belief in a “nature spirit” – though the details of this aren’t exactly clear. Due to the newness of the sylvari, they are often mistaken as (lesser?) nature spirits, which is exploited in the aforementioned Whispers sylvari level 28 story step. This faith in the ground is why centaur spellcasters are always Earth Magic users.
  • It should be noted that in recent years, due to the war and increased hostility of the centaurs via the alliance, the faith of most centaurs have lessened and turned into a more brutal belief system of sacrifices and combat – in-game, this is most seen in the Tamini and Modniir.
• Centaur government is mostly unknown, though the Modniir are currently led by a war council, the head of which is Ulgoth – it’s unclear whether Ulgoth is a name or title, as it is used in both cases, indicating a change of how it’s used halfway in development with the previous ways it was used being overlooked.
  • The centaurs do use terms such as chieftain, though they are not the highest ranked it seems. Chieftains, to me, seem comparable to captains in a military. The highest ranked Harathi known is “Overlord”; there is no Tamini (that I know of) ranked higher than chieftain, though there are three leaders in Gendarran referred to as “Mogul” who lead the assaults in the area.
• The Modniir ensure the loyalty of the Tamini and Harathi through fear and pure strength. They force the Tamini to be the front-line soldiers, and the Harathi serve as the engineers of the army – one can compare the three tribes of Tamini, Harathi, and Modniir to the charr legions of Blood, Iron, and Flame respectively. The main use of fear the Modniir use is the form of their War Beasts – canine-like earth elementals that have been trained to feast on human flesh, and used as a threat to train to eating any flesh.
  • Not all in the alliance are led through fear, though. There are Tamini who have expressed a certain admiration for the Modniir’s strength in battle, and claiming that if the Modniir were on the front lines, the war would be over before the other tribes got a chance at combat.

For more: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Centaur

I’d also like to point out the PoI name for where the Avatar stands:

The Soul of the Pale Tree

So in A Light in the Darkness we have the avatar calling herself the spirit of the Pale Tree, and the PoI at the avatar being dubbed “the Soul” of the Pale Tree.

Stooperdale.3560:

I don’t think there is any contradiction in the A Light in the Darkness dialogue. We could be speaking to the physical manifestation of the avatar and she tells us she will be in the dream only in spirit. I don’t see any problem with the Pale Tree having both a physical manifestation in Tyria and spirit manifestations within the dream at the same time. The Shadow of the Dragon might be able to do the same.

Uh… that dialogue from A Light in the Darkness is the avatar explaining who she is, not how we will be in the Dream.

In full:

We ask: “Excuse me, but who are you?”

She says, in response: “I am the avatar, the spirit of the Pale Tree that surrounds you. I am the mother of the sylvari race. I am Tyria’s ally.”

She isn’t talking about the Dream, but what she, the avatar, is.

Roybe.5896:

The avatar is a magical entity similar to a ghost. It represents the Tree…otherwise we’d be talking to a root or something. Not sure i see what the issue is. Not even sure why there should be any Wardens standing around the Avatar..they should be patching up the broken parts of the tree itself.

The issue – and this whole discussion – stems from how the wardens try to mend the Avatar of the Tree, and the description of the Avatar if you talk to her while she’s on the ground (in that it says she’s “barely breathing” – souls/spirits/ethereal manifestations don’t breath).

Basically, the problem is what you said you don’t know why it happens.

Guild Wars has a lot of in-depth lore. Go play GW1, read all the dialogue and quest texts, talk to the various NPCs. You will see, it is there.

GW2 has been lacking with this, but even the lore of the Elder Dragons is far superior to what you’re claiming, Kurrilino.

“I am the avatar, the spirit of the Pale Tree that surrounds you. I am the mother of the sylvari race. I am Tyria’s ally. "

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/A_Light_in_the_Darkness#Dialogues

I think that rather settles it, no?

kta.6502:

It seems the Pale Tree is using the British definition of the word. Anet may have used a British writer to create Mama Tree’s lines.

-snip-

Since we know that the Pale Tree’s avatar is an actual body, manifestation isn’t the correct word in American English.

And where, pray tell, do you get this conclusion from, exactly? You seem to present this out of thin air. You just present the two meanings of the word, and then go and say “it’s obvious this is the proper meaning” without any backing or proof. Do you have proof she’s physical? One that contradicts her own words and proves her own words wrong?

She tells us herself that the avatar is spiritual. And aside from the blunder of Episode 4’s finale, nothing ever indicates otherwise (and before you go with some “she isn’t see through” – well, neither is Mad King Thorn, who is very much a spirit).

Furthermore, ArenaNet always uses American English. Check all the various spellings, phrases, and so forth. Even though sylvari tend to have a British accent, Anet uses American English. It is humor, not humour. It is judgment not judgement. Etc. And the reason for this is quite simple: ArenaNet is based in America. It is not British made, unlike Harry Potter. So if ArenaNet requires a translation for other dialects of English, they’d need one for British English, not one for American English.

I hope that they remove WvW from world completion (it’s not part of the world dangit), adds a bunch of vistas and skill challenges (maybe more PoI if meritable) to Southsun, and then add those two new zones (plus a reworked, enlarged, Labyrinthine Cliffs? Pwease?) to world completion.

Then add a separate, less rewarding, track for WvW+Edge of the Mists+Heart of the Mists. Mists Completion.

CureForLiving.5360:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

As far as we know, simply having a “good influence” does jack squat to a dragon minion.

I can think of a magical planty back piece that might disagree. Although how lore canon it is I’m not too sure.

Really? Really?

Did you not read the very following sentence of what you just quoted? Let me quote that paragraph for you, I’ll even bold for emphasis:

As far as we know, simply having a “good influence” does jack squat to a dragon minion. If you point to Mawdrey, I will point to how amongst the first of the dozens of different magical things we feed it (or rather, it’s grandplant) was Foefire magic – which originates in ancient Orr, results in a ghostfire magic that burns through risen corruption exceptionally fast, and alters the mentality of those affected by it to be shared with the spellcaster (in Ascalon’s case, Adelbern). Mawdrey was given a series of other magical effects – raw ley line magic, purified glacial water, healing Maguuma waters, Font of Rhand magical water, chaos magic, Mists magic, elemental magic, and then the light and heat of the Forsaken Halls and Destroyer. Any number of them – or the combination of any number of them – could result in cleansing dragon corruption in the same light as the Forgotten ritual at the Altar of Glaust.

We give the three plants that end up with Mawdrey a series of unusual magic, the very first being aside from pure raw ley line magic being Foefire magic – which is known to alter the mentality of those it affected.

Without knowing whether or not any of these dozens of magical artifacts affected Mawdrey or its two plant-sires, we cannot point to Mawdrey. Goes double when we don’t even know how canon that backpack is to lore.

We know it’s possible to remove the mental corruption, as we do it ourselves, and heck it may even be possible to reverse or change the physical alterations too. But thus far, there is zero indication that the simple powers of love and friendship can save the world of Tyria – even if it and a dance off saved the galaxy in Guardians of the Galaxy.

CureForLiving.5360:

I think she only states that she’s preventing the mental corruption via Mordy, not sure if she’s responsible for the physical immunity as well.

This is the discussion in question:

Well, my child, the one thing you must never forget is that I stand between you and the greatest darkness you’ll ever know. A vast darkness intent on consuming all that we hold dear.
-> What do you mean, Mother?
There are those who reject my protection. It leaves them vulnerable in ways they cannot imagine, in ways they never were before. I shield you as best I can and will for as long as I can.
-> You’re talking about dragon corruption. We’ve been immune to it.
Yes. In the past, my children have been immune. But Mordremoth’s corruption is powerful, and just as Zhaitan created the undead from so many creatures, so Mordremoth’s corruption can change you.
-> Scarlet?
I believe she opened herself to it when she let down the wall of her mind. Mordremoth’s corruption seeps in through the cracks in our willpower. Do not follow in her footsteps.

Others take this to talking solely about Mordremoth’s corruption the entire time, but the fact that our PC talks about immunity and dragon corruption on a general scale and the Pale Tree says yes indicates that she’s the source of protection against all Elder Dragons. But, for reasons unexplained, Mordremoth’s corruption is strong enough to work through that protection – especially to those who leave the Pale Tree, such as Scarlet.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Konig, just because it is expressively stated that the avatar is a manifestation, does not mean that is was not physical. There have been plenty of stories written throughout the course of history that use “physical manifestation” of things similar in concept to the Pale Tree. Entities that are too vast for the ‘mere mortal’ mind to comprehend, and as such need to manifest themselves into something more human-like.

The fact that the does text does state “small body” does imply that it is physical, not just a projected image.

You apparently didn’t read my full post. Because at the the first quote I used is the Avatar of the Tree stating that she is the Pale Tree’s SPIRIT.

A spirit is not physical, is it?

Silvercyclone.1462:

This way they wont have to worry too much about game lore.

No.

Lore found in-game is sparse enough as it is, don’t give them reason to make it even sparser.

sirian.4981:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

ArenaNet has a habit of not improving things which are not popular.

For example, when asked if they’re going to fix all the armor clippings with charr, they responded with ‘charr aren’t popular so it’s not high on our priority list.’ Funny thing is, the armor (and its clipping) is one of the major reasons charr aren’t popular.

Same thing is likely the case with underwater combat. It has issues so people don’t like it. Because people don’t like it, it’s low on their priority list.

The charr bit isn’t necessarily true. Arenanet could look at which races people pick for their first character and see which they go for. At that point people wouldn’t know about the armor clipping issues or how horrible high level gear looks on those characters.

Based on the popularity of races in other games, I am betting that human gets picked most frequently, followed by Asura, then Charr and norn well below those two.

My point was that charr remain so unpopular – in that, people make a charr, and then get put off by the poor armor of the charr thus going to other races – because of such. If you decided to start the game and role a human because, hey, you’re human, and then you see players complaining about all the armor clipping with charr, are you going to then role a charr?

For most people I know, the answer would be no.

And a lot of people I know refuse to play charr because of the constant armor clippings that are so blatant it bugs them throughout gameplay.

Actually, no, that was just a comparative argument, and the above was the point of the outcome of the comparative argument, which is “the charr don’t get worked on because they’re unpopular, but because they don’t get worked on, they definitely will remain unpopular” and that this outcome is in the same light for underwater combat:

That is to say, my point is: Underwater combat doesn’t get worked on because it’s unpopular. However, it definitely will remain unpopular so long as it isn’t improved.

Squee.7829:

Then that gets rid of the “can she reproduce as a champion?” question. Apparently, the answer is yes. Because she did it. Still leaves the mystery of the method of her reproduction though. Did she reproduce naturally? Did she make a special form of construct?

The question has never been “can she make minions” – it has always been “is the baby dragon a minion-like creation, or actual reproduction” which can be paraphrased as “did Glint reproduce?”

Creation of minions != reproduction

Squee.7829:

It may help if we could see the infant because, as Aaron pointed out, it may have been retconned to look completely different from its GW1 variant. If it’s still organic, it was likely (but not definitely) an organic birth. If it is all crystaline or crystal/energy like The Shatterer, it’s likely (but not definitely) a construct.

There’s a fine difference between something like the Shatterer, and something that was living-then-corrupted, and that would be what Glint – and likely her child – would be in such a scenario. Unlike Aaron, I wouldn’t really say that Glint was organic looking in GW1. Not completely. If you observe most Branded, they retain most of their skin, and the glow of crystal is in fact beneath said skin. Their skin grays – much like the risen’s.

Glint very much had crystalline scales, though she and her defenders were blue rather than purple (sans Facets, if you can count those, and Glint herself looked gray due to the lighting of her room).

The Shatterer, unlike all “former-living-Branded”, is hollow, with what isn’t being black and having rock-like textures to it, far different than any other Branded in the game, which are not hollow and hold skin.

Squee.7829:

But if the Arah mission said she was only free’d but still in Crystal form, does that mean that the Glint we saw in GW1 may as well be completely ignored as far as appearance? (Due to retcon) Or that she, for no discernible reason, became fleshy in time for our GW1 heroes to find her, and then turn crystalline again before her death, as the zephyrites described her?

Depending on how you take the appearance. She certainly had crystalline aspects to her appearance, though she had scales as well. See attachments for GW1 image, and GW2 concept art used. Decide for yourself.

First attachment: Glint in-game screenshot
Second attachment: Baby Dragon’s model pulled out of game (model is same as Glint’s)
Third attachment: Glint concept art as seen in Sorrow’s Furnace story
Fourth attachment: Another Glint concept art as seen in Sorrow’s Furnace story

I doubt she was ever “fleshy” in GW1 – whether you consider it a retcon or not is up to you. But what’s certain is that Glint did have crystals jutting out from beneath her skin. And if you ask me, those wings look a little too sparkly to be skin/scale.

Squee.7829:

As for things reproducing, I don’t know if the how of it is all that important. Can Glint do it naturally as a champion of a dragon? Irrelevant. She’s not a champion. She hasn’t been since she was freed from its influence. That may have made some physiological changes overtime to make her less of a mindless killing machine and more of a living organic possibly child bearing creature. Or maybe not.

I disagree. The Arah path explicitly states that all the ritual did was give Glint free will. It explicitly states that her body was still in its corrupted, crystalline, form.

And in GW1 in her lair, we see her being defended by crystalline constructs – Crystal Spiders and Crystal Guardians.

Furthermore, as per The Trek of the Zephyrites short story, Glint – like the Elder Dragons and their champions – consumed and stored magic up until her death.

She remained in her corrupted form, she consumed and stored magic, she had Branded-like minions. I’d say she still counted as a dragon champion, at least in terms of capabilities, just no longer with a Elder Dragon master.

ShroomOneUp.6913:

its funny hwo everyone is still debateing on what the avatr is good for, when ON PAGE ONE a mod/dev allready confirmed stuff.

If you actually read Angel’s post, she dodges the primary concern which is that the Avatar is not physical and thus should not “need mending”. She even agrees that it’s not physical, depending on how you read it, but doesn’t actually touch the topic of whether mending the avatar holds any affect on the Pale Tree, and likewise why the wardens go to the Avatar to check on the Pale Tree/try to mend the Avatar.

ArenaNet has a habit of not improving things which are not popular.

For example, when asked if they’re going to fix all the armor clippings with charr, they responded with ‘charr aren’t popular so it’s not high on our priority list.’ Funny thing is, the armor (and its clipping) is one of the major reasons charr aren’t popular.

Same thing is likely the case with underwater combat. It has issues so people don’t like it. Because people don’t like it, it’s low on their priority list.

With the Pale Tree knocked out, that may no longer hold true.

Of course, we won’t ever find out unless the Story takes us to see sylvari in the other Elder Dragon’s territories before the Pale Tree wakes.

Because, you know, the Pale Tree states that she causes the sylvari’s “immunity”.

They don’t need to use browser systems or the like. They have a system which triggers off of using items, doing story steps, obtaining an item, going to locations, or even completing events. They could use said system that is the base for achievements, hints, and unlocks (wardrobe, eyes, etc) to unlock entries on a new UI window/tab That could be structured akin to the Story Journal tab in the Hero window – in terms of appearance.

Or any number of things.

Their lack of technology was in reference to a specific means of delivering the short stories in-game, which is really nothing more than deflecting the question of ‘can it be done’.

We are actually told on multiple occasions – not just that one story step – that dragon minions cannot reproduce. There’s a few events – some related to the egg events – in Orr where this is highlighted if you stop to talk to the related NPCs, explaining that dragon minions have been proven to be incapable of reproduction thus far, and the cases seen are all of pre-existing eggs that likely were corrupted. In some such events, with the talk of “making more minions” what we see is cases of some minions spawning different kinds of minions (similar to how the ice shards the Claw of Jormag sends out spawn various icebrood models, or the crystals in the Brand do similar).

As to your point 5: How would that account to telling that the “Shiverpeaks will be covered with blood” and that Ascalon would fall, and the dead rise to attack humanity? While the part with the Mursaat is most certainly self-fulfilling, I find it hard to believe that Glint would predict the Searing, the Cataclysm, the Stone Summit rebellion, Khilbron assaulting Kryta as the lich lord, etc. even if on a general scale? Khilbron was certainly self-fulfilling that prophecy to a degree, but that still wouldn’t account for the charr and Stone Summit’s actions.

And she even says at after completing Hell’s Precipice but before completing the titan quests:

“The Titans the lich loosed upon the world are causing more trouble than even I could have foreseen.”

Right, I’m aware drax, my point was that there would be progress after 3 years. Or two, as the case may be argued. Not that it’d be solved, but that there’d be progress.

If the first year had enough progress for the charr and humans to sit and talk, charr give humans weaponry, humans give charr the Claw of the Khan-Ur, humans and charr work together against ogre, harpy, and Branded threats, and for the charr to let humans expand their settlements, then two years later should give more progress.

minbariguy.7504:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

As an addendum, I just want to say that your post – perhaps not intentionally or accurately – gives a pretty poor view of ArenaNet’s writers. The way you worded it makes it sound like “destruction is the only way we know how to advance a plot.”

In all fairness, Regina is the North American Community Team Lead, not one of the writers. I suspect she was asking on her own accord (rather than on behalf of a stumped writing team who can’t imagine any other way to advance a plot) with the intention of presenting our ideas to the writing team.

Now, if it had been one of the writing team, I’d probably be right there with ya!

NathanH.1465:

I agree with minbariguy.7504 It doesn’t look like she is part of the writing team and probably doesn’t know what the writing-team will come up with when they write the story.
She also said:

Just a question here because I am curious.

So, I’m guessing she was well… curious about what we would come up with and maybe hint some of the writers some of the ideas she liked ^^

Hence why I said “perhaps not intentionally or accurately.” The remainder of that commentary was actually going off of what the entirety of Season 1 and 2 has thus been:

1) Enemy creates disaster. 2) Players respond to disaster and destruction. 3) Enemy is pushed away from area. 4) Disaster and destruction left unfixed. 5) Rinse repeat until playerbase tires of enemy, resulting in killing said enemy off.

That is, quite literally, what Season 1 felt like. And I fear that’s what will become of Mordremoth – a gets-the-first-attack-never-beaten-but-forced-away foe that’ll remain until players go “enough already!” like what was done with Scarlet.

The Lost Shores. Flame and Frost arc. Secret of Southsun/Last Stand at Southsun. Dragon Bash/Sky Pirates of Tyria. Queen’s Jubilee/Clockwork Chaos. Tower of Nightmares arc. Escape from LA/Battle for LA. All of those had that same set up: enemy does first strike causing chaos, death, and destruction, heroes retaliate, main enemy remains at large/alive and destruction only partially fixed (if at all).

1) An important part to consider when speaking about Glint’s children is a little known fact:

Dragon minions cannot reproduce.

Dragon champions can make more minions – even more champions – but unless they were corrupted living beings that happened to be pregnant when corrupted, they cannot give birth (a side-effect of having no organic insides – working ones, in the case of Risen).

So while such was unlikely to be considered back in GW1, whether they continue using the terms “egg” and “baby” in a literal sense of reproduction, this indicates that Glint was once a living being that happened to be pregnant when corrupted. Thus, means that there was once a race Glint came from, and she is always only referred to as a dragon…

2) Unknown. We see a “Baby Dragon” that used Glint’s model but was slightly smaller in Eye of the North – 6 years post-Prophecies and seeing the eggs – but we don’t know if that was a baby that hatched from one of said eggs, or older and unseen prior.

3) A good deal of folks think it’s one of Glint’s eggs. So yes, a possibility.

4) Unknown.

5) Unknown.

I would love more novels.

Especially if written by Ree Soesbee or Jeff Grubb.

Stephane Lo Presti.7258:

Hi Maxwell,

The big issue for us to add Season 1 to the Story Journal is that Season 1 was not built the same way that Season 2 was. I can’t really share details but this means that we can’t simply retrofit the story steps into the Story Journal and we’re going to need to rework Season 1 into a format that fits the Story Journal. As we’ve said, we really want all players to be able to experience as much of the Living World as possible at one point, but I don’t have more details to give you, including a possible timeline.

Thanks for sharing your perspective!

Can you at least add in an official summary of Season 1 into the journal – just a page, maybe akin to the “I’m <character name>” panel in the beginning of the PS section that explains the events of the various updates?

@Blair: No, actually, lore does NOT hint at sylvari being Mordremoth minions. It, in fact, hints at the opposite. It does, however, hint that Nightmare is Mordremoth’s corruption, thus making the Nightmare Court minions.

As far as we know, simply having a “good influence” does jack squat to a dragon minion. If you point to Mawdrey, I will point to how amongst the first of the dozens of different magical things we feed it (or rather, it’s grandplant) was Foefire magic – which originates in ancient Orr, results in a ghostfire magic that burns through risen corruption exceptionally fast, and alters the mentality of those affected by it to be shared with the spellcaster (in Ascalon’s case, Adelbern). Mawdrey was given a series of other magical effects – raw ley line magic, purified glacial water, healing Maguuma waters, Font of Rhand magical water, chaos magic, Mists magic, elemental magic, and then the light and heat of the Forsaken Halls and Destroyer. Any number of them – or the combination of any number of them – could result in cleansing dragon corruption in the same light as the Forgotten ritual at the Altar of Glaust.

@Creamtoast: The Pale Tree explicitly states she’s the source of preventing dragon corruption – general, meaning all Elder Dragons, not just Mordremoth. Mordremoth just manages to get around said protection.

Just because Mordremoth can corrupt sylvari, does not mean there’s a connection between them. It’s like saying there’s a connection between Kralkatorrik and charr, because charr can be corrupted.

Fun fact: it’s heavily implied that the Elder Dragons cannot “recorrupt” their minions. Otherwise, why wouldn’t Kralkatorrik just corrupt Glint instead of killing her?

draxynnic.3719:

Charrbeque.8729:

SILKY SAND! What bookah thought that up? At least half of the time I get NOTHING from it and when I do get something it’s only a single geode. No lockpicks. No equipment. Nothing but a single geode if I ever do get something from it.

The mechanic is silly from a logical perspective as well. A single pile you can do nothing with, but get ten piles and apparently if you merge them all into one big pile and sift it you might get something? Wouldn’t it be easier to sift through the small piles on an individual basis rather than wait until you get a bucketload (or whatever quantity ten piles actually represents)?

My mental head-canon for that is that you’re compressing the sand into the lockpicks. Get nothing? You failed. Get a geode? You failed on the lockpick, but your work “survived”. Get a lockpick? Congrats! You succeeded your compression attempt!

Otherwise, no, doesn’t make sense.

Maybe _in_toxicated!

chugs

As an addendum, I just want to say that your post – perhaps not intentionally or accurately – gives a pretty poor view of ArenaNet’s writers. The way you worded it makes it sound like “destruction is the only way we know how to advance a plot.”

Some examples for perfect ways to advance a plot without (beginning with) destruction or chaos:

Winds of Change.

The plot begins by you fixing up old issues (Factions campaign), rather than rushing to the scene of death and carnage. And throughout, you’re doing nothing but fixing up problems and trying to prevent persecution.

Prophecies.

Though it begins with the Searing, most of the campaign is trying to rebuild, survive, and fixing one’s own mistakes. It isn’t about stopping continual destruction after continual destruction, without stopping the source, like Season 1+2.

Nightfall.

The entire campaign is about trying to prevent uncommong destruction, without there being some triggering destruction to push the plot forward.

We don’t need a town to be destroyed to rush over and save the day. We don’t need a countryside ravished to realize “oh, now we should go fix the problems there.” The best GW1 storylines came with the notion of trying to prevent uncoming destruction or just simply trying to survive against impossible odds, while the much-hated Living Story Season 1 was all about seeing the destruction happen even if we know it would come and cleaning up after the fact. The Ascended spinal blades backpack is pure testamount to this rather poor plotlining: We faced Scarlet at our door, and that day we brought the fight to her. This shows, point blank, “we waited for her to attack us, and then we killed her as she did so.”

Imagine what Season 1 would have been like if after the Crown Pavilion, we went hunting for Scarlet to fight her on her own turf, finding her final liar to be in some fractal of the Mists that ended up being the home of the Grand High Sovereign – you’d be fighting in some alternate future Tyria where evil has long prevailed and ruled the world with an iron fist… to have suddenly disappeared one day (when he went to true-Tyria and was slain), leaving the lands in chaos, leaderless, and ripe for Scarlet’s taking. She’d have an entire pocket dimension under her control, and you’d have to fight your way through scores of minions, holding her teleporter rooms (that were akin to The Shadow Nexus in GW1) which was her means of traveling back into Tyria so that she couldn’t escape. Then, once backed into a corner, a final confrontation in the very fabric of creation.

Of course, that couldn’t lead into waking Mordremoth early, but it would have been a far more epic and befitting ending rather than waiting for an army to approach your doorstep. The only time such should happen is when you get tricked into thinking they have a different target. But no, it was placed on a bloody bulletin board for where Scarlet was going to attack. Everyone and their maniacal white fluffy cats knew Scarlet’s target was Lion’s Arch, and yet no one bothered to prepare for the assault. Hence, the common complaint of the good guys holding the idiot ball. The storylines have thus for been beginning with “the good guys are attacked by <insert threat>, and then the heroes come in to save the day.” Which results in boring, repetitive, plotlines that results in everything being destroyed – and with no effort going in to recreate what’s destroyed, by the this time next year half of the game will be running through rubble, a testament of the villains first-strike and the good guys’ idiot ball.

Have two pre-existing non-interacting groups interact.
A lot of folks are fairly isolated, and yet, there’s no reason for them to be. Try asking yourselves some questions such as:

• What would happen if a Renegade met with the Flame Legion?
• What would happen if the Sons of Svanir met the Inquest (on non-experimental terms)?
• What would happen if a Sentinel unit was sent to observe other dragon minions?
• What would happen if the Arcane Eye met with the Shining Blade?
• What would happen if Wade Samuelsson went to Ascalon City?
• What would happen if centaurs negotiated with the charr?
• What would happen if the Consortium met a mysterious businessman who could extend their sphere of influence?
• What would happen if a Canthan ship washed ashore randomly?
• What would happen if Joko sent a scouting party north into Mount Maelstrom via Judgment Rock?
• What happens after Toxic Alliance and Molten Alliance met in Battle for LA?
• What happens if Bangar Ruinbringer got teleported by Thaumanova’s chaos magic teleportation displacements?
• What happens if Razah suddenly shows up in the middle of Lion’s Arch during Halloween?
• What happens if Magi Malaquire suddenly pops up in the Black Citadel?

These do not need to be major plot points, but could be minor things. Two groups that under normal circumstances wouldn’t meet… ended up meeting.

Show how the main plot affects minor plots.
The ley lines got tampered with by Scarlet Briar. Surely more than just Mordremoth would react to such. Jormag, Primordus, and Kralkatorrik’s food source no doubt just got a little smaller (if not a lot smaller), after all! This could be shown in a greater aggressiveness of dragon minions, explained via mechanics with stronger abilities in the champions or greater akin to how risen got their reworks a couple times (as well as with Tequatl Rising).

Tower of Nightmares made Kessex Hills pretty much infertile. How does this affect Kryta’s food supply? Maybe the Ministry will use this attack on Krytan land to degrade the queen!

The various alliances Scarlet made could have been used to boost various events involving the groups of said alliances, making a permanent open-world show of their involvement (e.g., the Fire Shaman in Iron Marches could have been given Molten tech). Too late now, but something to keep in mind for the future – or when S1 is made permanent (wink, wink).

I know I was repetitive with a few things (Tower of Nightmares), but that just goes to show how many categories of improvement a single story plot can fall into.

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

-snip-

A way to shape the progress of Tyria without destroying?

New groups forming or showing up.
This would be like how we got the introduction of the Watchknights (exclude Scarlet’s hijacking) or the Zephyrites showed up.

Other potential scenarios:
The Zaishen Order, with the destruction of Lion’s Arch, have stepped up to aid in its rebuilding and spread its teachings, now becoming prevailent in all main cities to help in bolstering defenses to prevent such devastation from befalling groups again, just as they did when they were a mono-racial order. Result: an extension of lore on the group spreading, and stronger defenses for future storylines, with more interactions between more groups, seeing how the Zaishen (who’ve been said to turn to favoring Bear, chivalry in the Dream, charr heroes of the past, and chaos and strife in the Eternal Alchemy) and seeing how these teachings interact with non-playable races (be they racial sympathies like grawl, hylek, quaggan, skritt, and ogre, or other groups like largos and kodan).

Two street gangs that were displaced, and as such thought disbanded, by the Great Collapse have shown back up; having their ties to the Kurzicks and Luxons respectively they’ve gone out to scout new members for their small-time guilds, and they become a threat to Krytans on a wider scale. Result: a new series of evetns throughout Kryta (and elsewhere) featuring these two guilds – sometimes in conflict with those previously in the lands (e.g., an assault on centaurs in Gendarran, or on Garrenhoff), or in conflict with each other. Their members would be designed in light of their origins of Kurzicks and Luxons, bringing a Canthan flair to GW2.

Bring evolution to things other than the main plot.
A lot of plots that involve continuous and immediate conflict have been put to the side in favor of Scarlet and Mordremoth. What happened to the Ministry that opposed Jennah while Caudecus was under house arrest? Who won the Flame Legion civil war (or is it still on-going)? What became of the revolution amongst the dredge? What’s the progress of the charr-human peace negotiations, and what became of the Renegades with Ajax’s death and where do Separatists stand? Where do the centaurs stand? How do the Nightmare Court fair after Faolain’s fleeing into who-knows-where? Just giving little expansions into each of these – so long as they are notable from the original content – would be enough every now and then. Because currently, it’s as if the entire world is stuck in place until the Living World decides to grace its presence with them. In all honesty, peace negotiations shouldn’t be at a complete standstill for three years (they began in 1324 AE). Maybe not complete, but some notable progress should be made. Usually treaties only take months (e.g., the Treaty of Versailles was negotiated over the course of roughly six months, officially).

After destruction, comes rebirth.
It’s been nearly a year, and yet Kessex Hills is still in utter disarray from the Tower of Nightmares. Lion’s Arch got a little improvement with Festival of the Four Winds, but after the “fundraiser” events, one would expect more improvement, yet we see nothing. Halloween brings a bit of hope, as the place has to be redecorated and reworked (as just putting in last year’s stuff won’t work – Mystic Forge moved, Thorn can no longer stand on top of the bank as it’s destroyed, etc. etc.), might as well see improvements then; same with Wintersday. Prosperity could see some loggers coming in and trying to cut down that destruction – where else will the survivors live (though some were said to have fled north). The Zephyrites can and should eventually rebuild – uniting their five camps together to build a single one, until they can rejoin the rest of their airship fleet (presuming all 13+ airships didn’t crash, as we only see three, potentially four).

If you introduce something, don’t leave it for the dust after its highlight.
There were a series of ranches and homesteads added to Diessa Plateau and Wayfarer Foothills with Flame and Frost – they were part of capture-the-altar esque events, and after Retribution, they’ve become pointless. No interaction, no event, they don’t even show up on the map (neither does Mordremoth’s corruption – wtf?). They were added, and then forgotten. And worse yet, they’re not the only one. After Last Stand at Southsun, Cragstead and North Nolan Hatchery were left for the dust; Southsun has gained little despite Dry Top even gaining things like vistas and skill challenges; the Watchknights have been practically forgotten, used only as a footnote when Scarlet’s involved; or the tower of Nightmares’ destruction. Just as highlights.

They just need minor updates periodically. Give a little bit of something in most places, alongside your main plot. Like what was done with the three books added to the Priory.

Except that in the past it was explicitly stated to be a mere manifestation. Something “physical” is not a “manifestation”. She ever calls the avatar “the spirit of the Pale Tree that surrounds you.”

1. an act of manifesting.
2. the state of being manifested.
3. outward or perceptible indication; materialization: At first there was no manifestation of the disease.
4. a public demonstration, as for political effect.
5. Spiritualism. a materialization.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/manifestation?s=t

“I am the avatar, the spirit of the Pale Tree that surrounds you. I am the mother of the sylvari race. I am Tyria’s ally. "
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/A_Light_in_the_Darkness#Dialogues

“I am not as I appear to you. This small body is but a manifestation I use to put visitors at ease. My entire being stretches deep into this world and out into the Dream. I am more than you can imagine.” (to non-sylvari)
“It is by the love of my children that I flourish. This manifestation I use for visitors cannot express the depth of my roots or the breadth of my branches, both here and in the Dream. "
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Avatar_of_the_Tree#Dialogue

I’m sorry, but it IS a ghostly apparition. She says so herself. It is not physical. Anet’s writers flubbed up there.

It would be neat if the Havoc’s Heir would move about. The issue I find, however, is that based off of the name it seems to be Lion’s Arch owned – likely being Kiel’s ship, given that the Havoc was a ship owned by Cobiah Marriner at some point, and Kiel is the only known member of the Captain’s Council to own an airship (unless the Havoc’s Heir is a gift from the Pact, and was the one that showed up during Twilight Assault Aetherpath).

So the question is: would it make sense for a Lionguard/Captain’s Council ship to go into the new LW content?

I kind of wish they got rid of the Royal Terrace, make the Havoc’s Heir a permanent part of rebuilt LA, and then bring in a new airship (mercenary owned or a Pact ship) that moves with LS content, and the old Captain’s Passes and Royal Terrace Passes converted into passes to said new ship, with one-time passes having a small chance from dropping from random mobs (like Black Lion Chests do), with 2-week (or longer?!?) passes coming out of the BLCs.

I don’t consider Canach to be a sociopath so much as a hardened veteran of combat – which is in part thanks to being hunted for roughly half-a-year by the Consortium before his imprisonment. He does remorse his actions – as we see in The World Summit, he acknowledges he made mistakes and he intends to rectify such – but remorse for his actions (bringing in unrelated bystanders into his personal issues and harming them) does not omit him being a hardened veteran.

His dialogue about severed heads, going about killing all the party goers, were all him trying to get a reaction out of Anise, rather than him being some sociopath – and later on, to help distract the partygoers from realizing the Anise he was with was an illusion (once he found out about it). He might actually have that knowledge and ability to do such, simply from being so used to fighting (and do recall he brought a bag of the severed heads of assassins sent after him to Blingg when he was looking for Noll before the Secret of Southsun/Last Stand at Southsun storyline, so he had watched 3-or-more heads after decapitating them to know how long they remain responsive). When you know this – that he was sending the heads of those sent to kill him as a warning not to send more after him – his lines in Party Invitations doesn’t seem so sociopathic (which I’m not entirely sure is the proper term for such a psychological personality).

I, myself, hope for a return of Razah some day. And in a good light.

If it turns out Anise=Livia, it’ll be because of threads like this one, that gave Anet’s writers ideas, and they took it. It wasn’t planned, but it became such because it’s an interesting plot point.

Female medium isn’t all that hard to avoid getting a trench coat, since it’s the chest piece and not the leggings that give the trench coat appearance. Moreso with sylvari, since you have cultural tiers 1 and 2 (for both genders) – though you’ll still end up with butt leafs. Mind you, you still have less than 15 options out of the ~60, but you still have a decent amount of them.

It’s male medium where there’s only less than 5 options.

I kind of wish that Anet would just remove the weight classes on armors. So that my norn warrior can have something that isn’t belonging in Spartacus/300 or a literal human tank.

Bojoo.7819:

embrace the trenchcoat

Welp, Dante’s here. Too bad there’s no proper demons in GW2.

He better be a ranger with Naegling.

Zaxares.5419:

If that’s meant to be Eir though, that kodan is HUGE. O.o In-game, the kodan aren’t much bigger than the Norn.

Kodan are on average 9 feet, norn can range between 6 and 9. So Eir would hve been a “short” norn back then – or this was before the average size of kodan was determined.

Genlog.4983:

thx so much for the info
and yes i remember there was a owl spirit

so there suppose to be 5 main spirits back then ??

and why Eir is so small in that pic is maby she was stil very very young ?
Eir is now around 80 years old

In GW1, Owl was meant to be amongst the main spirits – back then, there were only 3 (Raven, Wolf, Bear; I think Owl was meant to be in Raven’s place). Now, there’s 4 though Owl is highly known due to being the only “dead” Spirit of the Wild. There are many, many Spirits of the Wild and they’re only “main” because of being the four most commonly revered rather than any actual power or knowledge of – though of the non-main Spirits, only Owl has a lodge. The other spirits include Eagle, Ox (sometimes called Dolyak), Wolverine, Minotaur, Wurm, Griffon, Hare, Gorilla, and Otter – there may be more Spirits of the Wild, but we don’t know of their existence.

That being Owl Form is purely theoretical based on appearance, since it doesn’t really look “raven” like to me.

Eir’s age isn’t said anywhere, but there were hints at least during BWE (they seem to have been removed so maybe no longer canon?) saying that she was a child when Hoelbrak was being built – which would have been ~100-150 years ago, placing her to be amongst the oldest norn in modern times, though this likely changed for Braham’s plot (wouldn’t make sense for a 100 year old norn to have a 17 year old son, right? Especially since she apparently had a lot of potential before her when Braham was born, indicating youth back then.)

Belzebu.3912:

Used to have many more Norn spirits, but several main and secondary spirits died after the rise of Jormag. Owl in special was the one that told the norns to retreat the fight against Jormag and move to southern areas to try a better approach later, but ended dying during the retreat.

In Hoelbrack you find an area dedicated to the fallen Owl, Ox and Wolverine spirits.

Owl, Ox, Wolverine, and Eagle all fought Jormag. However, only Owl is known to be dead. No “main” spirit died after the rise of Jormag – Raven, Wolf, Bear, and Snow Leopard are only “main” spirits because they’re the ones who guided norn south and communicate the most with the norn in modern times.

The fate of Ox, Wolverine, and Eagle are unknown. And it’s just as unknown – likely a design oversight – for why Eagle isn’t amongst the Lost Spirits’s Shrine in Hoelbrak.

It actually was never anchored. It was chained to some other floating blocks.

And there was a White Mantle necromancer after “powerful tomes” in the tower as part of the War in Kryta bounties.

And we do know hints of Galrath’s history – he held some fame and affiliation with the Lionguard.

Fun fact about the theories about Isgarren having necromancer and elementalist knowledge… We met a powerful spellcaster who is seen at one point as a necromancer, and later on (timeline wise) as an elementalist… That’s right, Lazarus the Dire.