Erm…
Technically, Frostgorge Sound does have green on both sides. And technically, as far as we know the whole body of water is Frostgorge Sound (it has no other given name, except possibly “Drakkar Lake”).
At the bottom of your image, you can make out the scattered islands of the zone Frostgorge Sound when unexplored. It does go further north than the other maps from before though, as I realized later, which is an interesting thing to note. But not by much, overall.
But the angle and the distance makes it far too hard to make out the image.
Does give a hint that it may be Jormag, not Mordremoth, if she’s influenced by dragons.
….snip…
Now we get to you. I have long said that everyone is entitled to their opinions, but…
…
wow….Just,….wow!
I appologize for assuming that what Spec Ops: The Line forces you to do, bothered you in some way (it seemed like you were implying that the message bothered you and mirrored what I was doing or something), but, beyond that, You don’t even deserve a response from me, nor should you have any respect from me anymore.
I might make smart[censored] comments sometimes that rubs people the wrong way because they fail to understand that it was a joke, but atleast I don’t devolve into insulting (or implying insult) to anyone.
You apparently didn’t read my post, at all.
Because as I stated, Special Ops: The Line did NOT bother me, at all. In any way, shape, or form. I don’t see how you’re getting such. Is this meant to be more sarcasm? Because if so, you’re very terrible at being sarcastic.
Nor was my original comment ever truly to you, but rather to people, in general, who cannot seem to handle not being the center of attention in a game. And if me stating that such people – those who wish to be the center of attention in a game that matters for nothing – have self-esteem issues (because apparently their self-esteem becomes reliant on a bunch of pixels and storywriting, fictional characters, etc. patting them on the back), it is not so much an insult so much as my perspective observation. If such an observation is insulting, then I apologize, but honestly? It’s no more insulting than how you are to me in your first post with your “sarcasm” – which I would not consider sarcasm, as sarcasm is the act of saying something you don’t mean – it is seldom a proper joke, but rather a way to be a kitten to others in a “fun” manner, and you making kitten comments is not being sarcastic, and what you responded to my original post earlier was, was being a kitten not sarcastic.
And as to the last comment – to be honest I got nothing more to add what Erukk said.
Konig, my purpose in quoting the dialogue was not a misunderstanding of the time sequence of events (my point actually relies on the events taking place in the order they did), it was intended to demonstrate Kiel’s logic when it comes to profiting from stolen goods. She willingly accepts a ship which may have been stolen (I suspect the writers would conveniently go with “her ship isn’t a modified Pact one, it’s a reproduction”) but after accepting what I believed to be a stolen Pact ship she argues it’s wrong to accept stolen goods. I don’t care if the second ship was crashed and unusable – I wasn’t commenting on the ship but rather the idea of profiting from stolen goods – whether it be an Aetherblade ship stolen from the Pact or gold and loot stolen from the people of Lion’s Arch – in both cases the original owners are victims.
I clearly misunderstood your original post, as I took it to mean that you were using that dialogue to refer to her ship, rather than a separate one.
However, I do not see any hypocrisy in her lines – nor any contradiction. Kiel did not commandeer the Aetherblade ship for herself. Magnus did, and then gave it to Kiel. For all Kiel (or us, for that matter) know, Magnus worked out a deal with the Pact behind the scenes.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
It’s impossible because it’s been confirmed that the Personal Story takes place in 1325 AE. The Living Story begins after the death of Zhaitan. As others stated before Andele, the Aetherblades by all appearances is brand new – made by Scarlet, after all – and are seemingly made post-Zhaitan, ergo post-Personal Story, ergo post-Tybalt’s death.
She smells fishy because of all the krait she’s been dealing with.
More seriously though: correction – it isn’t “nobles” but rather “Ministers” and it isn’t “kill” but rather “overthrow” (easiest means is to kill, but it’s not the only possibility).
Ministry Guard do not work for the Queen, btw, but are personally hired guards of the Ministers, and we don’t know whether the Minister who moved into Kasmeer’s home is loyal to Jennah, or to Caudecus. It’s more likely to be the latter.
Wasn’t it stated that her father was stabbed because he was locked up with people whom he had helped jailed or some such? The location of her brother has yet to be brought up.
Kasmeer was sad after beating the Marionette because it was the anniversary of her father’s death, as she tells you and Marjory in the LA instance.
It was stated Scarlet’s actions during Queen’s Jubilee was done on a whim. There was no grand scheme to her targeting Jennah. She saw the theme of the Jubilee (humanity can withstand any test) and decided to test humanity herself – this included targeting Jennah.
Marjory isn’t a friend of Logan, but rather Logan knew Marjory was a detective (the two knew the others’ reputation). The two (Logan and Kasmeer) meeting was by chance. Kasmeer went to work for Marjory because she saw the help wanted sign, as elaborated in The Edge of the Mists.
Well, except for the hundreds of thousands of already buried dead people. Not just humans, but other races too. Then there’s any enemies who try to invade or the native inhabitants of any lands he invades.
Finite, sure, but pretty kitten large regardless, and still growing until there’d be no more life – or unused corpses – remaining.
He also keeps living people in his empire.
From the Movement of the World, it seems he uses undeath as both a promotional tool (“be of use, and I can make you ‘live’ longer and be more powerful with your own men to order around”) and as punishment (“fight against me, and I’ll make your ‘life’ an unliving hell, never to end”). He still leaves a living population in Elona.
1) No. Aetherblades, by all indication, were formed post-Personal Story.
2) No. Before being an OoW, he was part of the Iron Legion and became a gladium.
3) The OoW had no clue that Tybalt would be going to deal with the Jackdaws – in fact, IIRC, Tybalt is chewed out first time entering the chantry during the storyline_for going against orders_ (that is, he was supposed to just look into it, iirc). Even then, the entirety of Lion’s Arch are pirates, more or less, and again, the Order of Whispers had no clue the Jackdaws were involved – or that the Ministry had caught up.
4) Again no. However, even if so, why would the Risen’s assault be an attempt on Tybalt’s life (i.e., assassination)? The Risen don’t work for Aetherblades.
5) You don’t see anything remnant of Forgal or Seiran. That theory is just people wishing one of their favorite characters weren’t dead – it’ll happen anywhere. But he’s dead. Arguably a risen.
In all honesty, I understand the need to make this one pre-rendered…
There were explosions and such.
I’d imagine that the game engine isn’t really designed for explosive environments.
However, Bazaar of the Four Winds should have been rendered in-game in my mind.
Bazaar of the Four Winds makes sense, seeing how they – for some reason that doesn’t make complete sense – wanted to tie the cinematic to an item that you’d get from achievements (one I presume many subsequently deleted after using it to spam the bank in LA). Honestly though… I saw nothing odd with that cinematic?
However, LA’s cinematic pre-rendering only makes sense if they wanted it to be showing the actual game graphics (in which case, low quality… not so great!). IMO, it should have been the paint-stroke cinematics like the Tower of Nightmare destruction (which featured explosions!).
Plus, gotta remember that the norn do have their were-forms. While we never see Braham taking on Wolf Form, I don’t doubt that he can storywise, and thus Rox’s comment may either be what synk said – a charr joke/compliment – or that he “off screen” turned into his wolf form and used more than just his claws to fight. Or heck, maybe in his human form he went and bit someone – not like that’d be totally odd in fast-paced hand-to-hand combat.
Could the new back piece be a play on the feathers of the Mursaat?
Incredibly unlikely. The “feathers” of the mursaat span in a full 360 directions, while these are closer to traditional wings.
Players have serious self-esteem and narcissism issues if they so direly want the spotlight in a bloody video game.
I suggest such players should play Special Ops: The Line. It has a message for you.
And of what consequence does that message have for me? (Without spoiling the game, since everyone should play it)…It is an interesting message to be sure, but since the message is in a game that pretty much forces me to take certain actions, actions that are needed to be taken in order to get the message across, there is nothing for me to feel bad about, or care. Spec Ops gets the message wrong because its forced on you.
Bravely Default, has a similar message about someone’s inconsequential sense of righteousness. There is a line spoken towards the end that might have no meaning at all, or it will become vastly more powerful depending on the the optional stuff you do through the game. Its not the exact same message, and you could argue that its way different, but it had more impact because it wasn’t forced on you.
Konig, You need a different game to tell me to go play, without a forced message. If you really felt bad after playing a game, its because the game forced you, and you let your emotions fall slave to a couple lines of code. That’s much worse.
I didn’t feel bad. I actually missed that particular message first playthrough because I’m not used to such messages being brought out (derp goes the me). It was more a comment about how people seem to feel entitled to being the hero of games and getting all the credit, and when they don’t get such they go into a massive QQ’ing mode, even though it’s 100% perfectly logical that they don’t get the credit (such as in, gasp, GW1 and GW2).
Basically, my point was what Eluveitie said. Those who are complaining are playing to be the center of attention, the gloryhound, etc. whatever terminology you wish to utilize. If it bothers you so much that one in a very few games don’t give you this, then you have self-esteem issues since you apparently feel the need to be complimented by a game.
And if you cannot handle some very minor things being shared credit, then it’s obvious that you should stick to single-player games or MMOs that ignore every other player.
In each case, though, the dragon’s attempted hastened awakening was done by their champion. So, by that theory, Mordremoth’s champion is… Scarlet. And the Pale Tree knew there was a dragon hiding in the sylvari psyche. And now this sylvari player wants to bang his head repeatedly on his desk.
Dragons on the ceiling, dragons in pictures, dragon-wing backpacks… I don’t know. It all still seems too obvious, but, well, yeah, MMO writing.
The Sons of Svanir were neither corrupted nor champions, yet they were used to hasten Jormag’s awakening.
Seeing how what wakens the Elder Dragons is magic, a champion isn’t needed but magic is. Thus, it would be possible for an Elder Dragon (or champion) to manipulate someone into giving the Elder Dragon magic. In this case, manipulating Scarlet to use the leyline to waken Mordremoth – theoretically. Scarlet need not be a minion for this to work.
And I want to emphasize that nothing confirms that the entity was in “the sylvari psyche” – just that Scarlet was already in some means of potential mental contact with the entity. If the entity is even related to Mordremoth. And if it is, chances are that the tie is via the Dream, by the Nightmare being Mordremoth’s influence (not corruption, influence – there’s a difference; Jora was influenced, but not corrupted).
Also: What dragons in pictures? What dragon-wing backpacks? Any dragon wing backpack was unrelated to Scarlet – and the Spinal Blades are far from “dragon wing backpacks.” Nothing relates the dragon painting on the wall to Scarlet, per se, since nothing else in the lab is cave-painting or draconic (though it is highly likely, and even then, who is to say the dragon is a representation of the entity?). And I’m fully unfamiliar with this “dragons in the picture” you speak of.
I noticed something strange on the screenshots of the interior of the Drill.
Dont read if you dont want to be spoiled in any way, I warned you. It isnt a really big spoiler but anyways:~~SPOILER~~
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~~SPOILER~~
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~~SPOILER~~In the Drill, there is a projection of a map with the spots of the probes on it, like we saw in Scarlet’s lair. Only this map, is not of the playable area of Tyria it seems. It looks like the Northern Shiverpeaks.
Please confirm this is indeed the Northern Shiverpeaks. I am really confused by this, the only thing in the Northern Shiverpeaks of interest is Jormag right? Well tell me wat you think of it.
Screenshot:
http://i.imgur.com/IWddfEy.jpg
Map:
http://i.imgur.com/NgYeFj4.jpg
You have to zoom in a lot on the screenshot.
Looks like the top ends just north of Frostgorge, so it is playable areas. It’s no new map, that’s for sure, and it seems to be the same as in the lair.
(EDIT: Just without the cycling, unless you don’t see it cycling because it’s a glitch viewing – do the other screens scroll?)
Mine, it doesnt cycle. Just this one with pulsing probe spots. It could just be decoration but I really think this is a weird decoration if it was one. This only raises more questions really. So it must have a meaning, right?
‘Tyria needs me’ and ‘Breachmaker’ just made a whole lot more sense.
You’ll have to elaborate why that makes more sense.
They also provided the Glory of Tyria with an introduction – during the Source of Orr (second instance). Even by name.
That’s the meta. It’s completed via completing 15 of the other achievements – both in that category and the special dailies.
Edit: Mistook what you meant. I don’t think that’s completable, just a continuous thing to do.
it’s true, basic gw2 edition = kitten drops
heroic and above edition = good drops
RNG is scam
Bull.
I bought Deluxe. I have pretty bad drops. Began playing with the head start, never got precursor and got less than 20 exotics in nearly a year and a half of playing.
I think my confusing stems from Nightfall how Abaddon is still considered a God, despite losing portions of his power as well to the other gods. I remember reading that’s where Grenth inherited his power of water from.
Grenth had a thing for ice even before godhood, having been known as the prince of ice and sorrow. Abaddon didn’t lose any of his power until the events of Nightfall – he was simply imprisoned. Water went over to Lyssa after his death.
Because of this whole ice/water thing, it seems that only a certain realm of the gods’ attributes are in the passed-down power (e.g., Knowledge for Abaddon).
On an aside, Grenth did cover for Abaddon in a deal of things – he was the most secretive/knowledge-based god while Abaddon was imprisoned.
I wasn’t aware of Koda, Mellagan, and Zintl until now. Couldn’t I use the possibility that Abaddon acquired his powers from an older now depose god to indicate their could be multiple gods lurking about? I know the apostate says Abaddon acquired his divinity from another god, but to my knowledge there hasn’t been additional information found about that.
Abaddon aquiring power from an older god seems to be no different than Kormir usurping Abaddon, or Grenth doing so for Dhuum. Even Lyssa’s hinted at having risen at some point (her origins are left ‘unknown’ and she wasn’t among the three stated to have come to Tyria from another world – interestingly, the other two not mentioned were Dhuum and Abaddon; what kind of significance, if any, this is, is unknown).
Grenth presides over ice. Abaddon held on to water until he was destroyed, after which Lyssa appears to have taken it.
Odd I could of swore it was Grenth that inherited that power, I’ll chalk that one to a faulty memory.
Edit: I can confirm it was faulty memory, Grenth was patron of Water Elementalists. That’s probably why I thought he had control over water.
I may be wrong, but I believe I myself may have read that somewhere as well in the past. It could have been a faulty wiki article, or perhaps a situation where the lore changed between games. I mean in GW2 Lyssa has changed from having no elemental ties to holding sway over water. If I remember right, in GW1 she held ties over chaos magic…
Either way, should my memory be correct, Grenth had control over ice before he had defeated Dhuum (which was before Abaddon’s fall).
I do believe it was a faulty wiki article – a presumption made due to Grenth’s patronage over Water Magic for Elementalists (which, despite its name, actually had far more to do with ice in GW1 than water), which was later fixed, I believe, with the knowledge of Lyssa taking the water personage after Nightfall.
They ley lines are far from dues ex machinas, given that they were revealed – albeit out of game – months before they were revealed in-game, and even then we know about them a month and a half before they became relevant in the plot. A dues ex machina would be no supposition at all – ley lines just have bad supposition.
Like 99.999999% of the living world plot, tbh.
Heh, wiki article had the names wrong.
Eh, well it sounded like you were trying to clarify something to me. My bad.
That’s my point, actually, Kalavier. However, he is also titled “Lord of Destruction” as opposed to “God of Destruction” or the like – and it is proven via Grenth, divinity is not a birthright (he had to take down Dhuum to become a full-fledged god).
And yes, I know that about Mellagan.
And about the Spirits of the Wild – that’s debatable, truth be told. Norn value them on par, but humans view them as beneath Melandru. Their outright power is unknown. I also know very well about how the norn view the human gods, ty.
There is, actually, more than just those however. The krait have their prophets (though their existence is debatable); Luxons had demi-gods known as the Three Queens (Aula, Elore, and Ione); the centaurs have their Earth Spirit (which, I believe, may be on par to the Spirits of the Wild and/or forest spirits like Urgoz); and the dwarves have the Great Dwarf (whether or not it was an individual and the shared consciousness of the dwarves, or just the latter, has not been clarified and it is minorly hinted to be the former).
I did say “look at” and not “count”. All three have arguments against being additional gods.
-snip-
Well about the magic articles, that’s 80% because no one bothered fleshing out the GWW magic article.
The only new stuff about magic, really, is related to Elder Dragons and ley lines.
I don’t understand why they didn’t just come up with something about how the dragons awakening shifted Tyria’s orbit slightly and because it was further away from the star they gained an extra couple of days. Infinitely more believable/less offensive to the lore community.
Reminds me of the norn in Hoelbrak talking about how the auroras in the sky had altered when Jormag rose, becoming darker and some such.
She found the location where it is resting, and has started to dig down towards it so that her Ethercannon can fire at it and kill it. I am sure that’s her plan, but it will most likely backfire badly. She is most likely doing what the sleeping creature wants her to do – help it rise.
So my prediction is that the Ethercannon will basically power the being up and allow it to rise earlier than it would have without Scarlet’s unintentional “help”.
A Pact member tells you after the defeat of Zhaitan that there is “one down, four to go”, so i bet we will see the Rising of Mordremoth, the Jungle Dragon, the sixth and final Elder Dragon to awake.
I repeat again: ‘What does God need with a starship?’ The other dragons woke up just fine on their own, why does Mordremoth need a giant drill?
Actually…
It seems that, without aid, the Elder Dragons will slumber for far longer than they would otherwise – Kralkatorrik woke, seemingly, on his own, and it is implied that Glint’s actions delayed him by 300-ish years (though that may be poetic rounding, as it’s more likely to be roughly 250 years – this being referenced at the same time as the mention above).
Zhaitan and the DSD may have held similar aid. In Sea of Sorrows, the leviathan known as “The Maw” was around in Orr before his rise for some years, and though never outright called undead at that point, it certainly was very resilient – much like its later undead reappearance – to the various assaults on it. It is possible that The Maw – or even something from GW1 (cough Rotscale cough) – was aiding Zhaitan’s rise.
Left alone, one would expect Mordremoth to awake about 50 years from now – as each Elder Dragon have been waking in a gap of 50 years from others. And the first two to wake, had aid while the last to wake was being fought against rising.
So what would a dragon have need for a giant drill? To reach magical currents to be used to aid the dragon in rising – as they need magic to rise in the first place.
Six elder Dragons.
Six human gods…
Mmm
A lot of people who are new here make that jump, but we shoot it down every time. Once you get past Balthazar-Primordus and Mordremoth-Melandru, the whole thing just falls apart.
Technically there more than six Gods, which I think needs to be explained a little bit better. Lyssa lore says she is a twin goddess so technically she represents two goddesses. Also to consider Dhuum still retains his divinity status but is not recognized by the humans, same for Balthazar’s half-brother Menzies ( I might of misspelled his name), as a god. So there are nine human gods active unless I’m missing something that makes Dhuum and Menzies not eligible to hold the definition of a god in the Guild Wars universe.
If you’re going to argue “there are more gods” then the beings you should look at are Koda, Mellagan, and Zintl. They may not be human gods, but they are called gods by their respective followers, and though there are hints that Melandru and Mellagan are the same it is still unconfirmed (in a similar manner, there’s been theories that Koda is, in fact, the combined interpretation of Dwayna and Melandru, as well as being an alternate representation of Bear Spirit (the former coming from Koda’s titles, the latter coming from the new Edge of the Mists where the Spirit of Koda is a bear spirit, much like Bear Spirit was in GW1).
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
During Nightfall, heroes from Tyria and Cantha were recruited to the Sunspears, so yeah, Abaddon was defeated by the heroes of Tyria, Cantha, and Elona. Besides, comparing that to being unable to defeat someone who runs whenever the threat reaches her is not very kind – Abaddon was, after all, chained down thus unable to flee. Plus you’re comparing heroes of the past to heroes of today.
And Cantha being the Empire of the Dragon is irrelevant to having advantages or disadvantages to fighting Elder Dragons – the Elder Dragons don’t care about titles.
Which is most powerful, I would say Cantha because unlike Tyria and Elona, they weren’t wracked with dragons or long-standing wars. Yes, Usoku had went and waged war on Kurzicks, Luxons, and non-humans, but it was an outstanding crushing defeat before Joko even began his renewed assault on Elona (iirc) – which even that didn’t end until 50 years prior to GW2 (it began 60 years after Nightfall, ergo lasted 140 years and even now has confirmed resistances).
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
I’d argue it’s to Caithe because of how Caithe viewed Ceara. In Twilight Arbor, Caithe says she remembers Ceara but that she wasn’t impressed. Pale Tree, on the other hand, makes mention that she was gifted and the like. Almost everyone else did.
Caithe is the only NPC in the entire game who is unimpressed in some fashion by Scarlet.
IMO, Sea of Sorrows and Ghosts of Ascalon are worth reading if you enjoy casual reading.
Edge of Destiny is only worth reading if you’re interested in the game’s lore. It’s story writing feels… subpar. Barely better than the disjointed feeling of the Living World.
The books don’t really cover much of anything from GW1. They do touch upon one or two things each (Livia for SoS; Ascalon/charr conflict for GoA; Glint for EoD) but they’re relatively minor things overall.
But you’ve been stuck on the theory that Scarlet’s out to fight Elder Dragons, Malafide.
Which just doesn’t seem likely.
It seems less of “greater good” and more of “I’m too important to be washed aside!”
Get better screenshots of those screens. I see translatable Asuran Script up there! That surely reveals all about Scarlet.
All races have stealth magic though.
Specifically, all thieves do. Mesmers too.
And besides she used that “invisibility magic” that you say she’d go after the largos to get. Has everyone forgotten the big kitten veil of invisibility the Tower of Nightmares is under?
It makes me wonder if Zhaitan wanted LA for the leyline convergence under it…
If Zhaitan had specifically wanted LA then he would have gone after it. As it stands there were never any major Risen attacks on LA (I’m ignoring Sea of Sorrows).
Had Zhaitan been aware of whatever if under Lions Arch he could have flown over and dealt with it – we wouldn’t have been able to defeat him.
I would disagree, about not sending a major attack on LA.
He took Claw Island, but thanks to the mentor(s) and player character, the force was beaten down sizeably (per Vigil storyline right after Claw Islands’ fall), so a sizable force couldn’t have been sent to LA. However, after the “feint” assault on Lion’s Arch, Zhaitan struck the Orders’ HQs, nearly toppling the biggest threats to Zhaitan.
I don’t know if Zhaitan was truly after Lion’s Arch. I think he was trying to destroy the biggest threats to him – just like his assaults during Forging the Pact (trying to keep the newly formed Pact from obtaining ancient history that could help them defeat him; and trying to kill the Marshal at the same time) as well as the “dishonored by allies” fear storyline, in which he sends a mesmer to try to frame you, the biggest of all threats, and assassinate Trahearne again. Even in Battle for Fort Trinity, he tried to take out the biggest threat.
All of Zhaitan’s big moves has been to remove potential threats – though he never bothered to send his full forces, which I attest to future-Trahearne’s statements during A Light in the Darkness, that Zhaitan grew overconfident because he awoke on a nation of ready soldiers and magic.
I suspect Scarlet’s doing the same, even now. Her first assault was via the Molten Alliance, attacking norn and Iron Legion (two of the four biggest national supporters of the Pact); second was via Aetherblades on Lion’s Arch (third biggest national supporter of the Pact); her third pre-planned assault was via Toxic Alliance on Kryta (final biggest national supporter of the Pact). Then with Origins of Madness, we saw X’s over each Orders HQ and Lion’s Arch – she couldn’t have (likely) known that the probe for searching ley lines was going to trigger at LA. I think she was intending to assault the X’s after the drill attack, and it just happened that the probe that turned green was at one of the next targets.
Even though her arc is closing, I don’t think this assault was intended to become her final action.
This also matches the actions of the other Elder Dragons’ risings:
All of the Elder Dragons’ first noticeable assaults, is them weakening or attacking potential threats – rather than them first seeking out ambient magic and corrupting the land around them to make minions (only Zhaitan has not corrupted the land itself into minions; but he didn’t really need to either, thanks to waking on a mountain of corpses).
If the entity is Mordremoth, that would be what Scarlet’s doing – on top of whatever plan she has for the ley lines too.
Why couldn’t that be referencing their interactions in the Aetherpath of Twilight Arbor?
From what I understood (I’ve only cleared the path a few times), Scarlet wasn’t actually there when we went in. All that was left were her holo recordings.
From the first boss:
“Let the boss talk, Spark. She spent a lot of time setting up these messages.”Also in the very beginning of the Aetherpath Caithe says:
“I met Scarlet in the Grove, before she went on her academic pilgrimage. I was not overly impressed. Now she’s sent me a direct challenge. She claims to know things…things I wouldn’t want the world to know.”This sounds to me like Caithe is leaving something out about when they met.
That quote on the blueprint is just Scarlet scribbling something on the back of the blueprint. It wasn’t a quote of Scarlet talking to Caithe. If you read the inscription fully, it states before the quote: Backside reads:
It’s similar to Scarlet scribbling on the side of Watchknight blueprints in the Tower of Nightmares lab “stupid humans, always getting in my way.”
I noticed that each of the camps set up outside LA is close to each orders HQ. If Scarlet’s going to attack the orders HQ all the citizens we saved would be back in danger, and honestly I don’t see much point in the attack. The Pact is still preoccupied with Orr, which means most of each Order’s man power is there, posing no real threat to Scarlet’s plans. So my question: why would Scarlet bother with an attack on the orders if she already has control of LA and the ley line crossing?
Well given the whole potential-ties-to-Mordremoth thing going on, Scarlet would want, via Mordy’s influence, to weaken the Pact. To do that, strike the Pact’s pillars of support (as Zhaitan showed, striking the Pact directly is not very effective). It’s a take on the “divide and conquer” concept – except without the need to divide.
I never thought of them as parallel. Were they really meant to be that way initially? I could have sworn that they said around Lost Shores that it was officially post-Zhaitan, I therefor assumed everything else released would be too.
Matthew Medina stated the Lost Shores was in a forum post, but afterward whenever asked, Angel and Scott (possibly others like Bobby) stated that they both happen whenever the player experiences them.
Meaning that, for some players Zhaitan died in 1325 AE. For others, he was still alive, even in 1327 AE, all the while Scarlet’s plots were ongoing while Zhaitan was alive.
I thought there were pieces you could find in the actual game that retold what was in the manuals. I also forgot about the manuals when I wrote the comment, else I would of written in-universe instead of in-game.
What I explained wasn’t in the manuals either, actually. The manuals not once mention Abaddon – this is the closest you get in any of the manuals. In game, all you get is mentions such as in The Mouth of Torment’s description stating that Abaddon was once a god, and that he fought the other five gods with his Margonite followers, was beaten at where the Mouth of Torment is now and imprisoned in the Realm of Torment. There was, in fact, never an explanation for why Abaddon rebelled in-game – until Temple of the Forgotten God and Orrian History Scrolls in GW2. All that came from out-of-game sources just like the mentions that Abaddon is dead.
It was only in pre-NF-release promotional lore pieces distributed solely to the Asian market. They received a lot more such pieces than EU/NA did, especially with Factions as that was predictably a touchy subject for them (I don’t really get it, but I’m not Asian and thus don’t hold those strong patriotism and aggressiveness to neighboring countries that they seem to retain from their old and recent histories).
Note: It’s that she considered, not attempted.
The wiki article’s line was speculation, added by a user who too often adds in speculation that seems likely as fact.
I’ve removed that line from the wiki because of this, and since it’s not entirely relevant to the tengu article (more of to Scarlet’s article).
True, they could do that. But I don’t think they need to use my flawed logic to continue defending their hypotheses and theories, as evident by how persistent they proven before I posted this argument.
Though my point was in that they could, not that they would nor should. Anyone can use your argument, and fail to be bashed down, because honestly it’s unknown (unless you’re a bonafide actual seer and can read the future).
Actually I didn’t know that, I was led to believe the content wasn’t scaled for those below level 80.
It’s like most Living World content updates, where the set level is 80, but any character underleveled is upscaled – the content isn’t downscaled at all, and you’ll still be underpowered compared to lvl 80s, but you can participate – and survive, if good enough.
True these hypotheses and theories do still form regardless of what anyone says. It just to me more can be contributed to the debate using in game lore than out of game lore in the case of Abaddon. All Anet has said is that he’s dead, the same thing they said about Zhaitan. They haven’t said, at least that anyone has pointed out, they are beyond resurrection.
It is never said in-game why Abaddon was imprisoned (or rather, wasn’t until GW2). However, it was out of game, as well as explaining why he went into the war rather than just stating that he did (which is all that’s said in GW2 – that he gifted magic, then went to war and lost). Out of game, it is explained not only before GW2 for the just mentioned, that he was tasked with gifting magic, did so too freely, and when it was revoked it was, in fact, the Margonites who first acted out, and the Forgotten retaliated in war; then Abaddon joined in, defending his worshipers from being slaughtered for a mere desecration of the Temple of the Six Gods, followed by the other gods. Though this is from Asian lore records, and a lot of their lore is altered from ours because China – as one place – has regulations that would otherwise ban the game from their country if the lore wasn’t changed.
This, by far, expands people’s understanding and capabilities of debate. Stating that Abaddon is dead, does not stiffen, but instead redirects the theories. In the “okay, so not Abaddon… then what about this!” direction.
I’m afraid I don’t have enough information to make a sound assessment on the reasons why, or even if, the quality has dropped that much. There is a notable difference, but we are comparing content being released every 2 weeks with a game that has been around for 10 years here.
That feels like a very poor argument, that last bit. Content being released every 2 weeks, sure, but Nightfall was made in 6 months – in fact, in the amount of time we’ve gotten to where we are in the Living World, GW1 had produced Sorrow’s Furnace/Tomb of the Primeval King changes/Titan quests, 4 Holidays, and 2 full campaigns – though one had horrible voice acting mind you (that has always been a down point of ArenaNet, truth be told). Compare the entirety of Factions and Nightfall, along with the end-game content of Prophecies sans Underworld and Fissure of Woe to the Living World on full.
Which is better?
I would not worry about the survivability of the game at this point. GW2 still has a healthy playerbase.
All a “healthy playerbase” needs is one reason for a mass exodus. Ever decreasing story, and ever decreasing soloable content when the game promises the ability to play through the whole game on your own if you wish, can and will reduce the playerbase. A lot of my guild members – all of which lovers of lore – stopped playing, or play far less frequently, as of the end of Tower of Nightmare content. Some returned, but they rarely rep the guild because – I presume – they’re losing interest in the lore and just play the game to play the game, not enjoy the story. Though that last bit is only speculating. I know some players who have flat out given up on the story and if they log on, they’re logging only for the dailies so that in the off chance that the story returns to par or better, they won’t be fully behind.
Yes, but if you are going to use TVTropes terminology, then the correct term would be Canon Sue, or Villain Sue, depending on the argument you’d like to make.
It’s also noteworthy that having such a character in a professionally written work does not have to mean the work is worse off because of it, while this is almost universally the case in fan works.
On the first, hence why I used “borderline” – I’m not well versed in TvTropes, so I went with what I knew to be closest.
And yes, I’m aware. See a later post of mine about Vampire Hunter D.
Yes, exactly. In addition to: “Why didn’t they immediately kill her on sight?”
But I didn’t say that, either. And that is not speculation, that’s a question. Speculation is guesses to questions we don’t have answers to.
Hmm, I think this may be disappointing, but the Living World’s Season 1 story isn’t all that long. It was told over a great span of time, yes, but in actual word count it doesn’t come close to, say, the Personal Story.
The writers underestimated the players’ ability to process information, and we’ll see definite improvements in this area in Season 2.I would be hard pressed to find a story where others accepting the villain is a character flaw.
I fail to see how the length in comparison to the Personal Story is of relevance. I am aware it isn’t that long, but it is long enough to mandate some character development, of which, as I noted, there is none.
And I see no reason to claim that we’ll “definitely” see improvements.
And as I said, the flaw is not of the character, but of the story – and it is not how others accept her, but how everyone likes her without question. Not just accept, likes and shares secrets with when they’re selfish or prudish, or downright egotistical.
Mmmm well by their nature they’re already corrupted (or else they’d be called ex-dragon minions), however we’ve seen no evidence of them being twice corrupted, so a theory is that once they’re corrupted by one ED then other EDs can’t corrupt them.
Yes we have seen such creatures. Three of them, each corrupted by at least 4 Elder Dragons’ energies – Kralkatorrik, Zhaitan, Primordus, and Jormag. The last linked, by five – the fifth being Mordremoth.
Keep in mind that the wiki is fan made and – except when quoting NPCs or being a copied short story/blog post – is seldom ever using verbatim wording of what’s in-game or said by the developers.
That line itself stems from a combination of the ley lines as well as Oola’s mention that: “We are all a part of the Eternal Alchemy, and as such, our very beings embody magic. Remember this, and all you do will be enhanced — from your accuracy with a bow to the power you put behind a fireball.” http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Oola
As well as Angel McCoy’s interview in which she stated: “Magic is the lifeblood of Tyria. The entire world is infused with it, and it flows through everything via ley lines that criss-cross the planet.” and “All creatures in Tyria have a natural ability to access and use magic. It is EXTREMELY rare that a person is born who does not have access to magic, and current theory implies this happens only when magic is at its lowest point in the world—after the dragons have been awake and consuming it for some time.” http://esprits-dorr.fr/node/261
Which is extremely vague and has nothing to do with the level of magic in the world in its statement.
It is, in fact, far more likely that the magic of the world moves into the individuals, rather than increasing with the individual.
We have no indication or reason to believe that the usage of magic – and in turn, higher numbers of people in a magic-full world – alters the level of magic in the world or area.
in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath
Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086
Others can use it. I have yet to buy one, and I’ve used three.
Would you argue no good stories can be written with a “Mary Sue” type character in them?
Just to respond to this:
The character D in the series Vampire Hunter D can be argued to be a Mary Sue of sorts. He is, in effect, perfect in every way (knows everything that shows before him, can’t seem to die or be beaten physically, magically, or technologically, etc.), and so little is told over every book that it gives the author room to make him ever more knowledgable and without limitations. Despite this fact, the series is a multinational best seller, and one I personally love as well because the character trope is (IMO) done very well. Mind you, I only speak with knowledge of the first 5 books (last I saw there were 23 books, in its original Japanese, and 19 of which were translated into English).
So yes, a Mary Sue character can exist within a great story. It’s all about the storytelling and balancing the “Snowflake Syndrome” (a less layman’s term for what a Mary Sue, effectively, is – an overtly unique and sometimes (near) perfect character) with what the character goes through.
Scarlet and the Living World, however, don’t even come close to the level of story writing that Vampire Hunter D is.
Off topic I’m sensing a reference to certain hypotheses concerning a certain Jungle Dragon that may or may not have a name that starts with an M, which has been very persistent despite your and various others attempts to lay it to rest.
There are thousands of outright ridiculous theories that have been debunked which can be brought back by your argument and the act of hand-waving the counter-evidence as “it will be retconned.” I referenced no specific one.
I don’t recall actually saying that, but if I have unintentionally imply it please inform me where so I can avoid making the same mistake twice. I have however said that Kormir states his will is broken, which implies he still exists in some form. So he can be resurrected at a later date if they feel they should, and it won’t be breaking their objective truth as he was at one point dead.
I never said you said it. It was said here, by Assassin X. You then responded to Narcemus explaining that Abaddon is, in fact, dead.
And for your argument: Kormir’s statement is that Abaddon’s thoughts and power is within her; his “will” is broken, because he is gone. He is no longer an individual, just disjointed thoughts – memories, if you will. Furthermore, Olias also says that Abaddon is dead and will not return – Grenth will ensure he won’t, even if he could.
This is one of the many reasons I dislike the inclusion of time travel or alternative realities, I find them to be a colossal headache.
Nonetheless, there is still a very fine difference between time travel, possible futures, and alternate realities.
The last has yet to exist in the GWverse.
So the Fractals are something akin to a Mesmer’s phantasm? So long as we remain within the sphere of influence they will be tangible but the moment we leave they can no longer effect us. Also I would like to point out the last part of this portion is the point I was trying to make. I never would of thought it possible that Abaddon could simply be recreated from the very Mists themselves, as I accepted the Fractals to be magical phenomena that replays past events to the best of its abilities.
Erm… Highly unknown subject that, imo, deviates too much from the topic at hand.
But my very point is that Abaddon – the one from GW1, the one from Tyrian history, the erased Sixth God – will never return. He may be copied, he may be imitated, but Abaddon himself will never return. Ever.
So that’s why people were mentioning the colossus, I haven’t done any fractals as I’m not level 80.
You realize you get upscaled, right?
True it is an objective truth as you have proven, but my point was to use the Lore present in game, such as Kormir stating Abaddon’s will is broken, instead of using an out of game source, such as Anet’s statement “Abaddon’s dead”, generates an intellectual debate that uncovers ideas that maybe even the developers didn’t think of. An example would be how you said it could be possible that Abaddon could be recreated in the mists. A writer could happen on this idea and find it an interesting one. However instead of Abaddon they could use the idea as a means to introduce a brand new god or even resurrect the Elder Dragons in a very interesting way.
I think that, even with developer statements debunking ideas, such theories will still spring out – simply because the theory makers don’t know of such statements.
Same reason why we continuously see “sylvari are dragon minions” and “Six Gods are the Elder Dragons” – because the theorymakers, each time someone new, does not know the counter-evidence that debunk the claims fully, and thinks that they came up with something new since they came up with it on their own.
When it comes to out of universe statements I feel they are contested until that particularly story has concluded due to reasons I already mentioned. Why I don’t feel the same with in-universe statements is because they add something to the story’s world as well well constructed debates. Out of universe statements only seem to provoke sparks within a community as it seems only a few want to have an in-depth debate.
I cannot quite understand your logic, and at the same time, I feel it would be impossible to convince you otherwise simply because it’s an opinion and while opinions can be shifted via convincing arguments, that’s a very hard task to do without explicit explanations.
Nonetheless, the out-of-universe statements are presented to us, by the makers of said “universe,” as canon to the universe. True, it may change, but again, by arguing that much without cause for believing it has or will change other than “they may do it” is so flimsy an argument, every professional – or hobbyist – debater would laugh at you.
Actually I can refute all of them if I wished, just you are able to refute my counter arguments right back.
You can try to refute such statements, but because whatever “proof” you may come up with can just be hand-waved away as “it will change” then you can never actually refute it. In that, I mean, you can never prove such statements wrong.
Should we throw out every myth and legend simply because they are inaccurate? Tell me what do out of universe statements enhance in a story?
I don’t think I ever said we should throw out every myth and legend simply because they are inaccurate. In fact, I would argue otherwise. While they may be inaccurate from an objective truth, they show the belief and misinterpretation of characters in the world, making it feel more real.
As to your second question of what an OOU statement does to enchance a story. Well, for example, it was highly theorize there was a tie between the Shadow Arm and the White Mantle, due to shared skins; similarly there was theorizing that the Enchanted armors in the Crystal Desert and the Mursaat were related, because of similar skins again. This was back with Prophecies. Both theories were debunked by developers explaining there’s no lore tie. This stops people from trying to theorize how things that are not, actually are, and pushes people into theorizing into a different direction.
Another example: it was stated, out of universe, that Primordus has not been seen to corrupt a living being – but can. This proves that the Destroyer Queen is, in fact, not a corrupted pregnant being like one of the two theories the mentors present, but it also opens the theory for the Imbued Grawl Shaman in Volcanic Fractals to be somehow tied to Primordus (furthered by how it wields a Destroyer Bow).
Yet another example is the clarification of how each Elder Dragon, and their champions, corrupt differently. Expanding on how they are similar yet different. This opens up the theory that Kuunavang may be tied to the Elder Dragons, and shows how, even though not shown in-game, we now know that the Elder Dragons are capable of corrupting the same way, but choose not to – which further hints at different personalities to the Elder Dragons. Personalities that are not shown in the game. This opens up a lot of perspectives and views into the Elder Dragons not possible to know from just the game and novels.
These are just some examples. Minor ones, even.
I’m actually trying to say that using them as the basis of a counter argument to a debate should be avoided as it doesn’t offer much.
I fail to see how an OOU statement “doesn’t offer much” when being used to counter a theory. It holds as much merit – if not more – than an IU statement. While not presented in the games or novels, it comes from the makers of the story. They know what is, and what isn’t, in the story. Even if they have not yet shown it – or they did, but failed to portray their point. It is as much valid as any in-game statement, to say the least.
The krait working for her has yet to be clarified. She somehow got obelisk shards, and she somehow threatened the enslaving race of krait whom view themselves superior to all into working for her to get their prophets made… and they complied without question.
And even that would be speculation, as we haven’t seen any of these moments in the game. We simply know Scarlet convinced them to work for her with the shards as incentive.
Again, it seems a lack of information is a problem here.
What is speculation here?
There is no speculation in what I said. The only speculation here, is why the krait agreed to follow Scarlet.
Would you argue then, that the villain of a story usually gets more character development?
I wouldn’t say loved. But the other characters’ seemingly effortless acceptance of her is a character flaw beyond doubt.
I think I am beginning to see what has happened here. It’s strange, but definitely something to keep in mind.
Not always. A villain – or any character – doesn’t necessarily need development. But then again, when development isn’t needed, there is no backstory to the character – Scarlet has a backstory, and by having a backstory, a development is needed.
And it’s usually pretty hard not to have development in a character in a long story – which the Living Story is. But above all, what is needed is to show their reaction to the victories and defeats. This, Scarlet lacks.
And others accepting Scarlet is not a character flaw. It is a writing flaw – or a story flaw if you must. There’s a fine difference.
However, people making presumptions about the story and where it is going, then being proven wrong, shouldn’t create this level of backlash. Is it that they feel that whatever proves them wrong isn’t good enough that evokes this level of emotion?
Would you say the way the writers handle people’s expectations and play off them is at fault? Or is it exactly a lack of handling that gives this problem so much room to grow?
I would say that it’s because Scarlet’s not very well written in the first place, even ignoring people’s presumptions and expectations, that people feel that it’s offensive. And they think so because a lot of the game’s history is well written. But then including people’s expectations, I would say that yes, their expectations are set so high that when the reality hits them, it hits harder than it should – and I blame this on ArenaNet’s marketing team, because quite honestly the game I hear about in these videos is NOT Guild Wars 2.
And it honestly feels like ArenaNet’s quality has dropped with GW2 – and continues to do so slowly over time. And knowing that some amount of the old developers and artists have left (Kekai Kotaki, Doug Williams, John Hargrove, and others ), with the lack of Jeff Grubb and Ree Soesbee being active (or rather, their activities being known) and with the same artistry in every other update… it really makes me wonder how many of the over-200-employees of ArenaNet are actually working on the Living World, and how many are, well, not. Or if that number has, unannounced, dropped substantially.
I am, and have been since September, worried about the future of the game. I think that, at this point, there is no redemption possible for Scarlet – that chance has come and passed, squandered with Edge of the Mists and this update. But the game may survive depending on season 2. I do not expect it to – and this is coming from a hardcore lover of the game, who’s played the franchise without anything more than a month long break since 2006 – and honestly, the first break was this past December/January.
I wouldn’t say borderline, or Mary Sue, as Scarlet is not a fan character.
A character doesn’t need to be a fan-made work to be a Mary Sue. Mary Sue was originally a fan-made character, true, but the trope that it stemmed, named after the character which is the most famous example of the trope, counts to characters in general – fan made, or not.
Do you think her flaws have been dragged into the spotlight more because of the nature of a game being the medium of the story?
No. I think her “flaws” – what precious few there are – are not drawn into the spotlight at all. Her insanity is drawn into the spotlight, IMO, in an attempt by ArenaNet to try to salvage Scarlet’s character. The issue is that it’s not a flaw, it’s just an expansion, and it’s done in the wrong way – we’re hearing about past things, not present things. In the end, how she acted two weeks ago is unchanged, even if the past reveal was of 3 years prior.
in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath
Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086
Part of the Priory storyline:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/On_Red_Alert
An asura, Maeva, lives there. She’s an associate of Steward Gixx who does research on dimensional and stasis bioscience. She’s set set up a automated magical defensive barrier that puts the threats within in stasis – in the personal story, she’s caught in said stasis as well. Given it’s all automated, she may not even be in there.
With Glint’s Child, she could extract the Immunity to the Elder Dragons powarz?
But even the developers have said the “child” (it really isn’t a child, given the nature of the dragon minions) may not even be free of Kralkatorrik’s control.
And even then, dragon minions are not immune to draconic energies.
This whole thing seems like a disaster. The Living Story and the personal story should NOT be related, aside from bringing in some minor characters to give a bit of nostalgia to those of us that have finished. I wouldn’t mind that. But this whole parallel thing can’t be happening and shouldn’t be happening. It’s limiting what they can do with the Living Story to make it something really great, and the fact that they didn’t hold onto the old instance for the PS bugs me.
It was recently outright stated that the personal story is now in the past.
So it’s no longer parallel.
Apparently, Anet realized their mistake of claiming the two were parallel for the past year or so.
Ah, my (joking) reference to a recent pop culture export wasn’t obvious enough. That’s ok, my bad, I didn’t even think about GW titans.
I should have added: flee to Divinity’s Reach, it has walls… ._.
Ah, no, it was.
I was just taking your joke, and making myself missing GW1 because titans were my favorite enemy in GW1.
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