Guild Wars 2

Underdark.3726:

Alice.8694:

My question is, why isn’t any of this within the game already?

How can be this in the game? Who can explain those things? Scarlet wouldn’t tell, we do not interact with the alliances. Nobody in game knows this.

1. The Toxic Krait could gain a new aggro line after ToN content: “You killed a prophet! I’ll send you to join the others’ armies!” (This is a reference to the belief of the krait that sacrifices are sent to the other world that the prophets live in, to become part of their army that will be used to take over the land).
2. To show the Toxic/Normal krait, a simple skirmish when the Obelisk Shards were in the open world – or better yet, keeping some of them in the open world and having the skirmishes there after the ToN content.
3. Dredge in the MA having an aggro line of how the magic and conquering of LA will benefit the moletariate.
4. Flame Legion talking – in invasions and LA – about gaining glory to redeem their failure in the Molten Facilities.
5. The Baron/Baronness mentioning, along with Scarlet leaving before the Prophet’s birth, that she hasn’t been around much when the krait are in the Heart.

Simple aggro voiced lines is all that’d be needed to show many of these things. These are blatant examples, though, and don’t leave much to question. Though some of these shouldn’t need to be questioned.

Angel McCoy.1832:

4. Why do her alliances…continue working with her?

Each has its own reason.

-snips-

“And they can’t exactly go join other normal krait. How do you think regular xenophobic krait would feel about these toxic ones? "

But the Toxic Krait were all amongst the normal krait, all across the continent. This heavily implies that, unlike the (implied-only in-game) dredge, Flame Legion and (confirmed in-game) Nightmare Court being factions, the krait were not. Was the schism thus after the Tower of Nightmares event, or were those spread out Toxic Krait delivering the shards simply gutted and the shards taken (e.g., Scarlet convinced some Oratuss (perhaps only the three we slew) and thus only part of the krait, but not all as is implied via the Krait Historian achievement)?

Flame Legion bit is an interesting view into their psyche, and should have been added in-game somehow. Could even simply be the Berserker shouting “I will kill you all and become a Tribune!” (warning: unpolished :P).

Angel McCoy.1832:

You’ll also have noticed that Scarlet was extremely elusive in the tower of nightmares. Can you imagine why?

-blinks-

She had a lab. She was elusive to us, and left before the Prophet was born – knowingly so for the Nightmare Court – but the existence of the lab rather heavily implies constantly being up there (or frequently at least) until we got there.

I could see it as “she was there until before the ‘prophet’ would be born, because she wasn’t sure if the krait would accept it as a prophet.” Again, showing this better in-game – without directly stating such – would have been better than leaving people trying to figure it out.

SunRoamer.5103:

It’s just that you mentioned that you “walk a fine line between giving too much lore, thus spoiling players’ in-game discovery, and not giving enough”, which somewhat… irked me. Because, I honestly think that most of the lore explanations you just gave us, they are never established at all within the game. You can’t give us too much lore in this thread and thus spoil our discoveries when there’s nothing in the game to base any kind of speculation on. The only thing we can do is, pretty much, conjecture, and that’s not fun (well, in some cases it can be fun, i.e. the really cryptic lore surrounding the Elder Dragons and the Pale Tree leading to Pale Tree = Dragon/Dragon minion theories).

I mentioned it in my own words, but I a have to agree with this (sans what’s in the paragraph at the end, because that’s a fully debunked ‘theory’ and makes 0 sense whatsoever with presented – not implied – lore). Avoiding spoiling in out-of-game mediums is pointless if you do not present enough to connect the dots in-game.

And as it stands, even with the initial release of the game, there’s just too few dots that connecting them turns out as abstract as THeo Prins’ art (not to dis him and his artwork, but I am getting REALLY sick and tired of this abstract loading screen art… Use more Jamie Ro, Naomi Baker (LOVED the Origins of Madness artwork – as epic as Kekai’s work) and Ruan Ji’s artwork!). If you want us to not complain about the story, then you need to implement more of it, and if it’s to be temporary like the stuff within the Tower of Nightmares, then it has to be more obvious.

If all these things you’re saying truly were developed for the release (and not just a case of you guys altering the lore to quell the flames), then this stuff need to be put in the game, observably so. It doesn’t have to be point-blank obvious, it can be indirect allusions to such (e.g., a Flame Legion top dog in the MA mentioning being promoted for his deeds in LA; toxic krait and normal krait duking it out around the Obelisk Shards; etc.) – even unspoken animation (though keep in mind that this is the most overlooked bit, especially if temporary!).

Thanks again for taking time to answer questions, Angel.

Angel McCoy.1832:

1. No really, what happened to their ability to shape-shift?

They can still shape-shift. This was one of the features about them that drew Scarlet to them. Their ability to shape-shift makes their forms more malleable and thus a better subject for the transformation in the nightmare plant.

Then why do we never see this?

Or are you saying that the Toxic Hybrid was one such “transformation” (despite the appearance and skin texture being that of the sylvari).

Angel McCoy.1832:

Why did the krait agree to work with Scarlet? Why did they not just take the obelisk shards, perhaps enslave some of her minions, with the ruthlessness that they are known for? More so after their “prophet” died? Why do her alliances (krait, dredge, and Flame Legion particularly) continue working for her?

That’s actually 4 questions. Can’t fool me. Hehe. Konig, we devs walk a fine line between giving too much lore, thus spoiling players’ in-game discovery, and not giving enough. If I’m cagey about something, it’s because I don’t want to give you spoilers, and I’m confident that when you activate your superpowers, you’ll find the right conclusions yourselves—and have a lot more fun than if I had spoon-fed it to you in a forum post.

Twas more of a single question (the last one) reworded in many ways to try to get the desired response. I know how you folks at ArenaNet work!

And when it comes to “spoiling players’ in-game discovery” – to be a bit blunt… avoiding that is pointless when we don’t get the information at a reasonable point in the game’s story. Why the krait, Flame Legion, and dredge (if not NC and Aetherblades too) continue to work for Scarlet is something that should have been explained either with the Marionette or with this update, maybe with Battle for LA. But even then it feels a bit late…

Angel McCoy.1832:

1. Why did the krait agree to work with Scarlet?

Warning: The following is paraphrased in out-of-game language and doesn’t even pretend to be polished writing.

-snip wordy word words-

That actually makes it feel a lot better because, until your non-polished explanation, it felt (read: was presented in-game) that the krait didn’t do the “you’re lying” or -kill manyaslave in fury- bits.

That kind of thing is something you should have had presented somewhere in-game (not the actual conversation, but mention of the conversations).

Angel McCoy.1832:

3. More so after their “prophet” died?

As you may have noticed, these krait were profoundly changed during their interaction with the nightmare plant and Scarlet. They are no longer the same creatures they were. They acquired a new look, new skills, and new behavior. Scarlet gave them their prophet, as promised—and may be able to do it again one day. Who was it that killed the prophet? Hmmmm.

See, one may come to this conclusion, but that “new behavior” bit never really seemed to translate to many people in-game. That actually sounds perfectly reasonable, but there’s no showing of this in-game. Just a bunch of voiceless mooks to farm bags for – and that doesn’t feed imagination.

Just to start teasing players, they should make a tengu one of the biconics, with slightly improved animations (maybe even the same animations as charr, like how human and sylvari share all but dancing – and then give him a unique dance), but the playable race… never… comes…

Weindrasi.3805:

This is silly. The dragons have no sex, everyone in game refers to them as “It”. Only players refer to the dragon as “he” because most people have the habit of calling ungendered things “he”
Also, the dragons don’t have voices, they don’t talk.
Female dragon minions? Yeah. Female dragon? No, its an it

Uh…
<PlayerName>, what a pleasure to have worked with you. Although Dragon’s influence continues to spread, with your help we’ve slowed the spread of his corruption. Thank you! _
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fightthe_ice_dragon%27s_corruption

Son of Svanir: We must make Jormag’s strength our own.
Svanir Initiate: Jormag is strength. Jormag is power.
Son of Svanir: Breathe in his power. Devour his strength.
Svanir Initiate: We will be transformed. We will reign supreme!
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Highpeaks

Wollam the Plunderer: Jormag has no need for your soft words. Balance means nothing compared to his power.
Wollam the Plunderer: I will make him more powerful with your relics, and earn his favor with your head.

Honor’s Claw: And their master in the north laughs. Listen to my words. Jormag threatens us all. And we must be ready for him.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Honor_of_the_Waves_%28explorable%29

Just three of many cases where Jormag’s called a he. Kralkatorrik is also called a he, by Glint in Edge of Destiny, such as this line on Page 340:

“At first, for centuries, I defended my master. But I could hear his thoughts, too, and I knew that if he rose again, all good things would come to an end.”

And dragons have voices. It’s just that, thus far, we’ve only heard them roar. If they can make verbal noises (roaring included), and if intelligent enough, they can speak. And given that they know all that their minions know and knew, then they know many different languages – both young and old.

DarcShriek.5829:

@Konig – Hurricanes are referred by both male and female names.

Only since 1978 though. Women names were used since 1953. If my facts aren’t wrong. And still, it’s more often to be women names, is it not?

Still, point stands. People do refer to natural disasters with masculine or feminine terms.

@Kalarchis: However, that is also one of the 2007 confirmed-to-not-be-used dragon concepts by Kekai, so even that will end up being nothing like the final version of Mordremoth – it’d be like comparing the original design of Zhaitan to its current form.

Ouimette.5902:

The thing is that people is refering it to the jungle dragon since it is related to the sylvari and since the sylvari is made out of organic materials similar to plants it is only logical to call it a jungle dragon.

Wrong. It is referred to as the jungle dragon because Colin Johanson called it such . The theories of it being tied to the sylvari stem from the Crucible of Eternity dungeon, in which name the title of an Elder Dragon tied to it would be Mordremoth – since that “sector” of research is plant-tied (to things tied to the Nightmare Court), people argue that “Nightmare/Sylvari is Mordremoth’s corruption; Mordremoth’s corruption is plant therefore Mordremoth is the Jungle Dragon”. A fallible argument as Colin called it the Jungle Dragon because of its location (or rather, the location of its influence): the Maguuma Jungle.

Ouimette.5902:

So my point is, could it be possible that Mordremoth would look like a rock/jungle dragon?
Something in style like a mixture between these two.

[Jungle concept]
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Dragon_15_concept_art.jpg
[Rock concept]
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Dragon_07_concept_art_(Rock_Dragon).jpg

The former is 2007 concept art of a plant-based dragon (i.e., most likely to be early concept art for Mordremoth aka Jungle Dragon). The latter is concept art for a champion of Kralkatorrik, I believe.

Ouimette.5902:

Or is a more jungle/grass looking dragon more prefered amongst all of you?

Would Jormag be made out of Ice?
Is Primordus made of fire?
Is the deep sea dragon made of water?
Is Kralkatorrik made of crystal?

The answer to this, is no.

While Zhaitan had a rotten appearance, Kralkatorrik’s flesh is seen as is Primordus – and they are very much not elements (though Primordus seems encased in rock due to hibernation). This seems to be a common (mis)conception of players, that the Elder Dragons must be made out of the element their minions take. But the concept art of the Elder Dragons which encorporate elements is more of the vegetation and whatnot grown on top of the Elder Dragon, not being part of.

Ouimette.5902:

[…] Fang of the Serpent and Claw of Jormag hints towards a pretty snowy/icy looking dragon.

Utilizing champions to presume the appearance of the Elder Dragon is very fallicious.

This looks nothing like this.

And the tooth doesn’t really show an icy appearance, but rather hints that Jormag’s body may (super)naturally give off a whitish-blue mist.

Ouimette.5902:

However, most of the dragons have a look that links them to the area they are resident at.

I would disagree. Zhaitan had a decayed appearance because of the Pact’s actions to weaken him (removing his corruption, starving him, etc. – source ); Kralkaotrrik, as I pointed out, lacks anything to his skin – even though his blood crystallizes – that indicates him being crystalline or even looking like the Blood Legion Homelands (where he hibernated); and Primordus was encased in stone, so we don’t really know what his body looks like, but this is likely more a case of his environment encasing him than his powers or element affecting the element – and even then, we have no indication of what his skin texture would look like without that encasement.

So I would not say that their environment affects their body’s appearance. No more than what has grown or settled on top of the sleeping dragons.

The irony of that post, Darkbattlemage, is quite humorous given the one directly above it.

Suwash for Captain’s Council.

Or Mai Trin. She actually got things done!

To be a member of the Captain’s Council, one must be a captain of a ship, with their own crew and sea-worthy ship (or airship, as recently adapted since the Pact’s formation).

Neither Turma nor o-Tron (god I hope that golem goes the way of the dozen+ named NPCs in the Orrian personal story…) has any of the three statuses. They aren’t qualified to be on the Council.

AeriaElara.4297:

Gender is not biological, the word you’re looking for is sex, and even then it gets iffy.

Also, and on topic, would you describe a tornado, earthquake, or tidal wave as a he or she?

Hurricanes are referred to with femenine names.

So yes.

But it’s not like Elder Dragons are actual forces of nature. People often mistake ArenaNet’s love of comparing Elder Dragons to said forces of nature, as ArenaNet saying the Elder Dragons are said forces of nature.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

@Aaron: what if we back it into the corner, and it goes cursing us in an ancient language (ala Dragonspawn’s speaking in Edge of Destiny)? Or if it’s just talking to itself. :P

Right after posting that I actually stopped and thought about them talking to each other. I think it would be really pretty cool if that happened and then we couldn’t understand these words literally going over our heads… and really pretty lame if we could.

Agreed. If we could understand the Elder Dragons, it’s be very lame. Until maybe the last Elder Dragon alive and is cornered – I mean, knowing five of its kind have been killed off by us heroes, by then they’d have to acknowledge us as a threat (hell, they should now at least as a good potential threat given Zhaitan’s death – and potential only because Zhaitan rushed it and was in close proximity from the get go) and having corrupted modern creatures and learned their memories, would also know the Tyrian language (though this doesn’t mean they’d be capable of speaking said language! Their tongue/mouth/throat/whatever may not allow the proper pronunciation of the syllables).

But I would love to see the language the Dragonspawn spoke elaborated upon and used more commonly amongst the non-corrupted-modern-being (e.g., Shatterer, Claw of Jormag, Drakkar, etc.) when beseeching their dragon or some such.

@Aaron: what if we back it into the corner, and it goes cursing us in an ancient language (ala Dragonspawn’s speaking in Edge of Destiny)? Or if it’s just talking to itself. :P

What an Elder Dragon needs to feel better in regards to persona is simply a powerful returning minion (they almost had this with the Eye/Mouth of Zhaitan, one can count Glint in a way as this) – it seems they may be setting Tequatl up to be such post-Zhaitan’s defeat. Of course, it needs to be done better than Scarlet’s show-and-leave.

With Zhaitan, in retrospect, I would have had the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan joining Blightghast in assaulting Claw Island (thus being the one to kill our mentor), appearing at the Temple of the Forgotten God (instead of a generic Eye), being the one the dead Eye of Zhaitan saw (instead of a generic Eye; and it being that we mistook a lesser Eye for the Sovereign Eye) and taunting us at that point via “real time memories” as it seems to be in the story step, and then finally at The Source of Orr.

Drakkar can easily fill this kind of role for Jormag (being capable of speech just like Dragonspawn and Glint, and can be more highly revered by the Sons of Svanir due to it being Drakkar who turned Svanir). And Chief Kronon for Kralkatorrik (he’s the ogre chieftain from Edge of Destiny that led the assault on Ebonhawke and was fooled by Jennah’s illusion).

1) The living story never ends. It’s only season 1 that’s ending. And chances are, it’s either this “Assault Knight” or more likely Scarlet.

2) Five times the size of Zhaitan? Do you even know how Zhaitan is? Five times his size is practically an entire zone. And you can bet that it’ll have overflow if it’s open world, irregardless simply due to server capacity.

Actually, Turai’s soul is now in the Hall of Heroes.

“For many centuries have I lingered here in this desert, waiting for the Prophecy to come to pass. The Chosen ones will come and help me gain access to the Mists and pass into the Hall of Heroes. It has all been foreseen.”

Once we Ascended and gained access to the Hall of Ascension, Turai was freed from being a guide in the desert and allowed to be within the Tomb of Primeval Kings – he’s likely amongst the Ghostly Heroes in GW1’s PvP.

It was stated a long time ago – by Ree via Regina, I believe – that the Elder Dragons don’t have genders in the sense of “male or female”. Though they’re all often called “he” they’re all more of an “it”.

Closest to gendered dragons we’ll get will likely be dragon champions – such as Glint was often considered a female.

@FlamingFoxx: Yes, Glint calls Kralkatorrik a he. Kralk and Jormag are the only dragons I know with absolute certainty to be called a he. I think Zhaitan was too, but not sure.

Angel McCoy.1832:

-snip-

You said a lot of things without saying much at all. Or at least, little to nothing new or important.

Just like when there were issues over your espirits interview.

You’d make a great politician!

The important matter that you’ve yet to answer is simply this question – all other questions don’t really matter, as they’re just flavor context that only help deepen the lore rather than solve the conflicts that are making people scratch their heads and go “wtf?” – the question is:

Why did the krait agree to work with Scarlet? Why did they not just take the obelisk shards, perhaps enslave some of her minions, with the ruthlessness that they are known for? More so after their “prophet” died? Why do her alliances (krait, dredge, and Flame Legion particularly) continue working for her?

This is perhaps one of the biggest unsolved conundrums of Scarlet – other issues of her got lessened from when their roots were first presented, but this one has not.

On an aside, I would really, really love for those old racial lore blog posts to return – in an updated post-release form.

Chrispy.5641:

I’m sorry, allow me to quote every relevant post, so you know who exactly I was talking to.

Way to take my comment out of context, buddyboy. You don’t even need to quote to denote who you’re responding to. In your case, simply not quoting anyone would have made it more general.

And your means of responding to that only furthers the argument that you’re a troll. Because that’s how trolls respond.

Chrispy.5641:

It still sets a precedent that makes me think about what could have happened if there was an option to ignore Kiel and see ingame consequences of that action. (…Maybe the gift Scarlet sent me wouldn’t have blown up in my face?)

Except that during Sky Pirates, Lion’s Arch wasn’t in such a state of emergency in which:

1. The city was fully being destroyed with hundreds citizens dying left and right.
2. Kiel was not a Councillor, yet.
3. We did not oppose Kiel running for Council seat.
4. We did not abandon Lion’s Arch and its citizens to die horribly in a miasma.
5. We did not put all the blame on the councillors while doing nothing ourselves.
6. We do not give anything more to the Lionguard than a single spare soldier. Evon, however, has thousands of weapons and other supplies in stockpile.

Even if we ignored the call, we were – to Kiel’s eyes – people who had no affiliation or reason to assist Kiel (being Commanders of the Pact, our job is to stop dragons not local terrorist threats – we just stop local terrorist threats as a hobby). And even then, we already assisted her during the investigation and finding out Mai Trin. She already owed us and wouldn’t have found the base without us. She’s a pirate, but she’s not unreasonable.

Chrispy.5641:

I still see Evon Gnashblade coming out of this in a stronger position than he was before, and pretty much everyone else in a weaker position than before this started(except maybe the lionguard, and that’s if they all didn’t die getting the civilians out of the city)

This, I would agree. Not many will take note of him abandoning civilians because he got conscripted and followed orders in order to not be outlawed.

I would not be surprised if Kiel, Magnus, and Evon end up being the top dog celebrities of Lion’s Arch after this. Aside from “he who killed Scarlet.”

Personally, I would rather have him on the council than half of those who are on it. He may be a dirty backstabber, but from what I recall reading, if he was elected then LA’s defenses would have been boosted. So he’d actually be doing something unlike, say, Hao Len who owns the banking of LA.

Not the first time a thread in the lore forum turned red without a red post.

Chrispy.5641:

I wasn’t just referring to you with that post

Well you did quote just me.

Chrispy.5641:

you did talk about me ignoring ‘evidence laid infront of my nose’

I never denied this.

Chrispy.5641:

Also, seeing to what extent the Lionguard and Captain’s Council will go when deputizing people in the recent living world patch ::
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Escape_from_Lion's_Arch_(living_world)#ambient_dialogue

… something tells me that I would have been accused of being an Aetherblade supporter and hunted down by the Lionguard if I didn’t go along with that mail anyways.

Are you referring to Evon Gnashblade? That’s rather different, given how they sought him out, while us players were not. Not to mention Kiel and Evon are bitter rivals – I kind of view that as Kiel abusing her power in times of need – which Aetherblade Retreat, was not. And Evon would only be shot because he’s already been deputized (against his will; while we were with our will).

You’re comparing two completely different scenarios.

And keep in mind that the dialogues happening in the open world technically happen after the escort events. Just as the Marionette event only happened once in lore. Thus, Kiel’s forcibly deputizing Evon is after he took his merchandise through the last active asura gate in the city and shut it down before civilians can get through, effectively abandoning the entire city and subsequently going on “I told you all!” BS-ranting.

Chrispy.5641:

So…, I’m a troll for having a different point of view, and I’m a troll for quoting a movie too (a relevant quote too by the way). have anything else you want to add?

That’s not what he was saying at all.

No one – not a single person – is calling you a troll because of your point of view. It’s how you’re handling the argument which is the reason why you’re being called a troll. Your arguing in a fashion similar to how a troll does.

Actually, there’s a bit of krait-to-player interaction, though it’s highly limited to just the personal story with Apatia, and doesn’t explain much nonetheless. But it does emphasize their egoism and lack of feeling threatened by, oh, anything but Elder Dragon minions.

Andele, nothing states that either the Fortune Teller or Razakel had talked into Shiro/Khilbron’s mind. They used – as far as we know – fully mundane means of tricking and converting Shiro and Khilbron.

Chrispy.5641:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Having a “different point of view” is rather different than ignoring evidence laid in front of your nose, by the way.

evidence of what? With the exception of the mail that you guys showed me (Which doesn’t prove much other than the Lionguard’s incessant habit of forcibly deputizing people, even when outside their realm of influence), you have shown me no evidence so far other than your own interpretation of how the events transpired. Am I not allowed the same luxury? Must I agree with your interpretation of events and only your interpretation of events?

Forcibly?

You chose to assault the Aetherblade Retreat. Ergo, you chose to be deputized.

Because forcibly is really with your consent.

Sure, from a game design it may be “forcibly” but this is ArenaNet forcibly making it so that you get deputized when doing the dungeon – you can still chose not to do the dungeon. The Lionguard aren’t the one forcing you (or your character) to do anything.

And excuse me, but I have not provided my interpretation on how the events transpired. I, myself, have only provided dialogue quotes – others may have included their interpretations while also including quotes, but I haven’t. And to claim I’m doing something I’m not is rather rude, as you were earlier in this thread by doing the very same.

Trahearne is of the Cycle of the Night. I don’t remember which PS step it was stated in, but I think it is only mentioned for sylvari. He’s the very first sylvari born (the first of the Firstborn) and the first of the Cycle of the Night.

Fun fact: The Firstborn are split evenly amongst their cycles – three per, and iirc, it was stated to be one sylvari born per cycle per day (e.g., all twelve born over 3 days’ time – poor Trahearne, all alone for about 6 hours, hah).

I read that implied “or else” as “or else you won’t get your precious obelisks.”

The tone is by far threatening, as is the last of her vocab. She is basically saying, in a threatening tone, “work for me or you won’t get what belongs to you.”

It’s not a threat of bodily harm like with the Aetherblades, but it is still a threat.

And even then, it wouldn’t explain why they don’t just take the obelisk shards seeing how, as the blog post says, the krait will just take whatever land-dwellers can offer them. Mind you, it’s usually in the form of slaves and supplies, not their own ancient cultural objects and promises of power – still, it is left unexplained, to an annoying degree, why the enslaving race of utmost hostility and fanaticism, don’t just gut Scarlet, take the shards, and enslave the Nightmare Court, which is how the blog post presents them as what they would do.

Having a “different point of view” is rather different than ignoring evidence laid in front of your nose, by the way.

Angel McCoy.1832:

I’ll tell you a little secret about the krait, that’s perhaps not so secret, but that may help you understand how and why they’ve changed since GW1. The krait once believed themselves to be the top of the food chain.

But, in these intervening years, they’ve been attacked, driven from their deeps, scattered into smaller groups, and forced to move into more shallow waters. The rise of the dragons gave them a little taste of humble pie. (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unending_Ocean)

This group of krait are hungry to regain their previous level of power and confidence, and they believe that the one way they can do it is via their prophets. And Scarlet offered them a chance to take back what they’ve lost.

As the wiki says, “Krait doctrine fortells the return of the obelisks’ prophets, bringing with them massive armies to flood the surface of the world and destroy other species.” (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Krait)

They may have wished they could do it a different way, but this particular group of krait agreed to Scarlet’s offer of obelisk shards and the chance to “grow” a prophet.

While I appreciate your time, there is one thing that I feel I must point out:

“Equally comfortable above and below the water, the krait have never felt truly threatened by any of the land-dwelling races of Tyria. Perhaps that is why they have not bothered to communicate with other races. They have no need of anything land-dwellers can give them, other than slaves for their use and sacrifices for their rituals. However, the krait can seize those for themselves—with ruthless efficiency.
Even the amphibious hylek are at a disadvantage when fighting underwater. No hylek tribe has been able to mount an effective force against the krait. The quaggan are terrified of them and tell tales of their monstrous chantries beneath the sea. The krait have never been beaten, and do not believe themselves to be defeatable. They are convinced that they are blessed and elevated: the superior species in the world."

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadows_in_the_Water_%E2%80%93_The_Krait

Originally posted on arena.net/blog before it was taken down, written by Ree Soesbee. Original version via web archive.org.

This article is obviously written from a GW2 viewpoint, as all the other lore blog posts were, and thus would logically include their little exodus – during which they ruthlessly slaughtered the quaggan royal family and, according to at least one pastkeeper, their goddess Mellagan. Even in-game prior to Scarlet’s antics, they are never seen communicating with other races, not even threats during fights except in rare cases like in the personal story with Nimfassa or with the three witches’ events.

And as the blog post shows, even though they were forced out of their homeland, they have never felt threatened by land-dwelling races. So why, all of a sudden, would they communicate with a land-dweller, be threatened by a land-dweller, and not ruthlessly take whatever a land-dweller has to offer, as it is stated that they oh so clearly do in this blog post (our best source for krait lore, and the source for most of the information on the wiki articles you linked).

I hate being the “red shirt guy” of GW (irony: I’m wearing a red shirt while typing this post), but I do hate inconsistencies and GW2 has an ever increasing amount of such – seemingly for the sake of “it looks cool” if not simply un-admittedly overlooking things. And it is little things like this – little things that never occurred in GW1 – that’s making me lose my interest in the game.

Uruz Six.6594:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

It was stated Scarlet’s actions during Queen’s Jubilee was done on a whim. There was no grand scheme to her targeting Jennah. She saw the theme of the Jubilee (humanity can withstand any test) and decided to test humanity herself – this included targeting Jennah..

More than just a whim. From what I gathered from Edge of the Mists:
- Scarlet was the one who created the steam creatures in Lornar’s.
- The Krytans took the technology from the steam creatures and improved on that to build the Watchwork.
- Scarlet said ‘thanks for doing my work for me’ and stole the upgrades to create her Twisted Watchwork.

• Nope, all we know is that Scarlet knows how they tick. What’s actually suggested, heavily, is that Scarlet reverse engineered them – the theory presented by the Marionette Priory members if you ask them (the charr one iirc) if they thought Scarlet made the Steam creatures.
• Not so much “improved on that” but rather used the designs to create something fully different. Unlike the Watchknights, the Steam creatures have organic cores.
• Scarlet stole the Watchknights, sure, but there is no way she would have known that 1) the Watchknights even existed until after their unveil (they were about before the Opening Ceremony and were talked about before then too, so she could have gotten a hold of one before the Opening Ceremonty), and 2) that they were made from studying the Steam Creatures (she’d only figure this out after studying them).

And it was outright stated explicitly by Scott McGough that the attack on the Jubilee was an act of a whim. See this interview here.

Uruz Six.6594:

That looks like it might be a case of the Personal Story team re-using assets.

-snip-

Except that the Steam creatures are utilized repeatedly, named the same, and are explicitly called the future self’s invention.

ArenaNet has reused models before – for example, the Chaos Beasts at Thaumanova – but they are always named different.

Technically, only one additional version – the release version (before even The Lost Shores), and then the current version – as well as any decorated version of LA (Dragonbash, Halloween, and Wintersday).

Thing is, aspirine, Tyria isn’t united. Elona is only split in two (Whispers versus Joko – which is more of an “Empire versus rebellion” case rather than civil war), while Cantha is to all knowledge, fully united even if solely human.

Unless it’s a picture from before they confront Scarlet in the finale, but all four confront her. :P

I would prefer for the living world storylines to be implemented as a continuation of the personal story, personally.

Abaddon was one of the Six Gods. They were called Five Gods because all historical mention of Abaddon was erased – only a few scattered scriptures (it’s really hard to fully erase someone from history – you can really only do such to official history like Mad King Thorn did all the time) remained, many of which remained in places where only the dead reside and were closed off for centuries (e.g., the Desolation, vaults of Arah, and Fahranur).

Nothing suggests Razakel had mind influencing abilities – he was a necromancer, and nothing said that he used magic to convert Khilbron into being a follower of Abaddon. The only “demon” (who’s origins are fully unknown) known to have mind influencing abilities beyond that of any standard mesmer is Kanaxai.

Or Taimi just isn’t in the drill – after all, during this release she’s being forced to remain at the camp near Vigil Keep.

I said good thing, not well done. :P

The lore and story is what kept me interested in the GWverse since 2006 – I hadn’t really had any breaks since then excluding last winter, despite the years of no-content in GW1. The quality of such is falling, continuously, from my point of view with constant retcons under the guise of “they were wrong” and new things added which makes little sense with old lore, or is utterly unneeded with old lore, that my interest is continuously waning.

Indeed. For example, this is a good thing they included, but this is utterly pointless, and this is a complete lack of context.

A third of these feel pointless, a third feel incomplete, and a third feel decent or good examples of what do to.

But it is nice that they included who did what artwork.

Something I just noticed in that third picture Bolbo put up.

Top left corner. Red. Shimmers.

Looks like Bloodstone to me.

Actually, if one were to believe that the Orrian History Scrolls were not mistaken, Reza could be a follower of Abaddon at the time too, given how his vizier knew and worshiped Abaddon. It would be that unlike Khilbron, Reza revered all gods, not just the forgotten one.

“Reza, son of Zoran, was king of Orr during the Guild Wars. As king, Reza tried to shield his people from the wars, and encouraged a greater focus on spiritualism, magic and the arts. He was a genuine devotee of the Six Gods, with a faith that was true and earnest. he tried to play peacemaker during the Guild Wars, and stop the ravages of war throughout Tyria. Sadly, his efforts were unsuccessful. Not only did he fail to stop the wars tearing Kryta and Ascalon apart, but the attempt to use Orrian troops to stop fighting elsewhere left his own country open for an invasion of its own—by the charr. In an effort to save Orr from falling to the charr, Reza’s advisor, Vizier Khilbron, invoked a dark incantation from the Lost Scrolls. The uncontrolled magic of the Lost Scrolls caused to the Cataclysm, sending the entire kingdom of Orr to the bottom of the sea. How tragic that, as its last ruler, Reza the peacemaker bears the horrible burden of its fall…”

Risen are not traditional undead. They’re dragon minions, like Branded and Icebrood – which can also include corpses being corrupted. They’re just constantly called undead because of their appearance and the fact that Zhaitan usually corrupts corpses rather than living beings (Jormag and Kralkatorrik corrupt both).

And they’re still fanatically devoted to Zhaitan (and this isn’t some sort of cultist fanaticism, but more like enforced continual brainwashing – though more specific, evidence points to it being a lack of free will, with Zhaitan’s will imposed on them).

It also spoils the fact that Magnus loses his left eye in the battle (not just temporary blindness like some have thought). But yeah, the atlas is a pretty big let down.

I think there’s 5 different images used for “Scarlet attacks/ed Lion’s Arch with a big kitten drill!” Seriously… couldn’t have been more imaginative?

I think unleashing magic into the open world would just draw the Elder Dragons’ attention, and result in its devourment being faster rather than slower.

The ley lines isn’t “new” magic btw, it’s still part of the world, just apparently deep underground.

I really do not think that Scarlet’s going to turn out to be some misunderstood/misunderstanding good guy like so many are wanting (and gods know why, that’d mean she’d be kept around!).

It was the middle one that I didn’t have – wasn’t in the image-linked articles either.

Anyways, sounds like a jet passing by and something landing to me. Assault Knight sound effect is my guess.

Gaebriel.3754:

I think the Atlas is quite cool. Though .. why are there Zephyr Sanctum images in Lion’s Arch? Seems not a misplacement, since I also saw different images from that event, at the actual place it was located. Mysterious!

Likely because you went to Labyrinthine Cliffs from LA. Odd choice nonetheless though, given all the other LA focused things.

And you can tell how much favor goes into LA…

Jski.6180:

Its kind of big this means that they will be giving us no more very open spoilers but they will give clues what could be happening. That and it shows us there a lot of room for new maps and we may be using this web pages to work out what will be added.

Not necessarily. On the first, the addition of the atlas really does nothing to reduce the spoiler-tastical showings that ArenaNet has done. Could, but not necessarily. On the second, it doesn’t expand the map at all compared to the in-game map. On the third, hopefully, but not in its current form.

Ricardo.5489:

Ox See Sox.3687:

What and Where are the 2 spots right below the main video?

A few pics contain a link to a website that provides u the hidden coords.

I’ve looked at all pics, no “hidden coordinates” led to this supposed sound file for me. In fact, one of the two links gave me coordinates to Edge of the Mists pictures, which were unlocked from the get go…

The fact that the portal “of a bluish hue” is never seen in-game. The Mist Warriors state that it’s on a hill, but there is no portal – let alone one of a blue hue the destination of which fluctuate – seen in the game.

This isn’t the only bit of dialogue that got overlooked during development. There’s a charr Whispers NPC that claims an Ascalonian hero was buried in Provernic Crypt; there’s Whispers NPCs in LA that call Trader’s Forum the original beta name (The Agora); there’s NPCs that refer to a Canthan district, as if it were still around, in Divinity’s Reach. Etc. Etc.

A good deal of things have changed between the earlier designs of GW2 and the released version, and The Movement of the World was amongst the earliest designs of GW2’s story. And there’s a handful of NPC dialogues that got overlooked in updating.

Logic demands that this is one, otherwise we’d be seeing a blue portal on a hill somewhere (not underground or whatever).

There were invasion events, but that seems so far out of the way for an “Aetherblades invaded throughout Tyria on Scarlet’s orders” (let’s completely ignore the Watchwork creatures and Molten Alliance’s joining in!).

And all previous release stuff have points on the map (kinda dislike how they bunched up The Lost Shores to Tower of Nightmares together…). Also dislike how it’s just the Living World stuff – forget the things meant ot be before the LW. This atlas has huge potential for an overall world database, not just some LW-only crap (excuse my hostility, but it feels downright stupid that they waste space on a no-captioned “Art by Jia Ruan” Caithe concept art – which is not the only one – rather than spending it on more hints, subliminal hints at that!, for future plot ideas, or on non-LW stuff).

Ranting said and done… I can’t seem to find point 7 for Battle for Lion’s Arch.

I don’t think it’s large enough to make those “footprints” – plus doesn’t explain why one is just under an undestroyed arch, nor does it explain why only a left footprint is present.

The “portal opened by Balthazar” was changed sometime during development. Siriam and the Mist Warriors are the only in-game sources for the portal existing. A lot of things in the Movement got changed during development (death of Ventari, rise of Jormag and Zhaitan got switched, etc. – mostly dates, this is one of the few non-dates that got changed).

Vonbrig Kemp is the only in-game lore explaining the asura gates to the Mists.

So no, it isn’t “broken lore” but rather “altered during development” (thus it isn’t a retcon either, technically speaking).

@mercury ranique: I do not understand what point you’re trying to make, at all. Because the asura gates in LA do not go through the one that was beneath Lion’s Arch (nothing says it is still there, let alone functional given that it was powered by Primordus).

Only amazing with the current release stuff. Why a note on the Scarlet invasions in the Dragonbrand? >.> And a random concept art of Caithe in mid-Caledon for… no reason?

It sounds like it’s the same narrator as the one who did Tequatl Rising and Twilight Assault narrations. Which is Julie Nathanson. Scarlet if voice acted by Tara Strong.

Why they continue the “creepy female narrator” idea for something that’s supposed to sound motivating is… beyond me.