Guild Wars 2

What happened to them?

Vanquishers.

kitten GW1 PCs, screwing things up for us yet again. First they let the charr win, then they break Temple of Ages, and they even tried killing Glint. Now they went and wiped out most native species on the world.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Guessed Enemy: Gwen. Just because.

I can see it now.

A great portal from the Mists opens up upon the people of the Black Citadel. Swirling blue and white and purple and black, a little human girl comes out. Wearing a blue dress with a red emblem on the chest, short black hair and a Red Iris Flower tucked behind her ear, she looks up at the charr.

Gwen: “Mommy told me not to play with fire. But mommy’s dead!”

Instantaneous Combustion on all the charr

I would argue that did suddenly change. The Karka Nest became full of that yellowish pulsating “flower” which spread the spores. More like fungi than flowers, really. The tentacles may be a reaction to those pollens.

And now that I’m no longer on the road:

“I have several lifetimes of research here, but only one life. Even aside from the karka, this place is a treasure trove of rare flora and unique, if increasingly belligerent, fauna.”
“Something is riling up the native wildlife. To figure out what, I need samples of local environmental anomalies. The more volunteers I get, the faster I get answers. "

If they were always there, then they wouldn’t be anomalies. The anomalies we take samples of are the spores/fungi/plants that were spreading the pollens which were aggravating the wildlife – and again, unlike the first time, including non-karka.

Furthermore:

“I was right: the adrenal response of local wildlife has been tampered with. I just wish I felt happier about being right. We’ll be trying to reverse the ecological effects here for a long time.”
“Canach’s tampering has made the entire ecosystem here more dangerous than ever. My career has taken a depressing turn from natural observation to disaster mitigation. "
“In order to disrupt Consortium operations here, he used some plant-based reagent to artificially goad the local fauna into violent attacks. I’m not sure we can reverse the damage at this point.”

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Researcher_Levvi

Canach’s actions during Secret of Southsun was permanent to the wildlife. If the plants that aggravated the karka the first time was the Fervid Censer, then why was that not permanent?

And I wonder this – sylvari are known to make not only clothing, but armor, weapons and even housing out of plants. Why would it be so hard to believe Canach wouldn’t make a plant using sylvari-unique magic that aggravates animals?

Either way, Levvi proves the following:

• The plants were new during Secret of Southsun, and not native to the island.
• The wildlife wasn’t always so aggressive (why did you even ask that? That was the main plot behind the Secret of Southsun part of the chapter).
• Whatever was done, was artificial. Meaning that it isn’t likely to be capable to occur naturally (which natural flowers in the area would be capable of doing).

It isn’t a stretch at all given they weren’t there before, and the first time the other wildlife did not get aggressive, but clearly did the second time.

Furthermore, unlike the first time, the second time the aggressive animals were covered in the golden pollen clouds.

The effects, though similar, are not the same. The first time is credited to territorial aggression – though the accuracy is questionable – while the second is pollen-induced by the Fervid Censer.

Ceara is of at least third generation sylvari. No older.

Caithe split up with Faolain because thwarted turned willingly to the Nightmare.

Didn’t recall that line. And no, the object I refer to is a journal, near Canach’s Folly. That name, btw, is another indication that Canach went to the island as part of the expedition team.

As to your theory of the Fervid Censer being what caused the attacks on Lion’s Arch. I doubt it. The spores that spread that pollen is stated to be new, I believe, during Secret of Southsun. This indicates that what drove the Karka into a frenzy is not native to Southsun. Furthermore, the Karka behavior during Secret of Southsun is said to be new and unusual – not something you’d say if the behavior matched how they were when first discovered.

Personally I view the Fervid Censer as being related to Mordremoth. But there really isn’t anything to support such at the time, other than being plant related and affecting both Karka and reef rider (if not other wildlife) the same – something that wouldn’t naturally occur to species of different native environments.

I never said that magitech is “modern technology” – I’m saying that it’s merely “technology that uses a power source known as magic, and would function similarly if not the same if it was given a different kind of power source.” (Also, I think Gandarel was saying that magitech looks like futuristic technology, not modern technology.)

Traditional magitech is not simply “technology powered by magic instead of ionized reactor fluids (or <insert other technobable here>)” but rather creating an output that is a combination of technology and magic. There’s not really a showing of this shared output of both.

And I disagree on your comment about golems. Take a non-asura and go outside Rata Sum into Metrica Province. There’s a heart where one of the things you can do is repair some deactivated golems. And what does it say for how to fix it? Blue and red wires among other mechanical things. In GW1, their golems were literally stone and vines powered by crystals. In GW2, their golems are metal platings with wires and possibly even circuit boards inside powered by crystals as opposed to batteries.

That activity is a lovely show of how different races view things (sadly, charr view them the same as other races), but it sadly also shows that asura use more technology than magical-technology.

Don’t worry about sounding uninformed. Most of the Living Story’s story is hidden in forum posts, short stories, recaps, and interviews. All but the short stories aren’t acknowledged by ArenaNet on the main site. There’s no direction to them. You have to either dig, dig, dig or rely on the community.

Economically Speaking
For Cantha’s economical state, I’ll look to our own history. Merchantilism is the act of trading only within one’s own national boundaries – within one’s country and the country’s colonies. This is effectively what Cantha would do if they went into isolation.

Cantha has a history of going into and out of isolation, however with one exception their isolation has always been prior to the Jade Wind. The Jade Wind not only turned the Jade Sea and Echovald Forest into stone (or gemstone, as it were with the Jade Sea), but also forced the expansion of Kaineng City due to a mass influx of refugees. This resulted in the mass of a maze city full of sewers and slums we see in GW1. Before this expansion, northern Cantha was known for having lush forests and rolling hills. Furthermore, Cantha’s first opening of trade occurred when Shing Jea Island was almost overlogged, and had to agriculturally recover.

Now, with the resources removed thanks to the Jade Wind, Cantha wouldn’t have enough self-sustaining resources to hold its empire for long, probably why trading was still open up to 1219 AE. With Cantha forced into merchantalism for 100 years, there’s really only two outcomes available:

Cantha hit an industrial revolution, like England did by discovering a new power source when Napoleon forced the British Isles into merchantalism. Or Cantha was hit dangerously in their economy like Spain when they attempted it willingly. Given the lack of resources Cantha has thanks to Shiro Tagachi, I suspect the latter occurred.

This means that Cantha, economically speaking, is possibly in worse shape than ever. And that’s not to mention the millions of gold Usoku put into expanding the military – how much do you think that damaged the rest of Cantha? Probably a lot.

Overall
I suspect that Cantha’s in a state of disrepair. The politics move smoothly but are split between traditionalists (Ministry of Purity) and radicals (Am Fah/Jade Brotherhood) with the Emperor inbetween, but they still manage to work together to preserve their nation as much as possible; at the same time, Cantha cannot be self-sustaining, and thus need to find external resources. This forces them – begrudgingly or not – to break their isolation and seek out others. Given the state of Tyria, this may mean they’ve gone and made deals with Palawa Joko for trade.

My view/hopes for Cantha:

The known facts of modern Cantha is that Usoku began his campaign to isolate it in 1127 AE; however, the tengu didn’t arrive in continental Tyria until roughly 1219 AE, and it should also be noted that Cobiah had been to Cantha in that year as well (via royal trade), meaning trade had either re-opened or remained opened for nearly a century after Usoku’s reign began (even if limited only to special royal-decree trades). Furthermore, per the Movement of the World there are modern Canthan sailors washing ashore – this means that Cantha’s sending folks out, who are likely being taken out by the deep sea dragon. This means either they’re in a naval war (could be with Joko, could be with the DSD), or they’re trying to make contact with Tyria periodically.

Politically Speaking
After the Ministry of Purity/our GW1 PCs’ purge of the leaderships, the Am Fah and Jade Brotherhood seem to have gotten taken over by better-minded individuals willing to work together. This would mean the centuries long gang-turf warfare would finally come to an end, even though they weren’t wiped out, and not only this but they were unified in the xenophobic practices of the Ministry of Purity. This means that the newly unified Am Fah and Jade Brotherhood would serve as the foundation of La Résistance within Cantha.

However, looking at Canthan history, we have a lot of cases where Canthan Emperors redacted their fathers’ – or in some cases, grandfathers’ – actions. Yian Zho (2nd) redacted Kaineng Tah (1st); Senvho (24th) redacted Singtah (23rd); Hanjai’s successor (unnamed; 28th) redacted Hanjai (27th); Kintah (30th) redacted Hanjai’s successor (28th); Usoku (32nd) redacted Kizu (31st) and Kintah (30th). In the ~200 years since, Usoku’s successor or following successor may have redacted Usoku.

Slap these facts together, I believe that Cantha’s political state will be one of three situations:

• Ministry of Purity’s influence still reigns supreme. This means no emperor has redacted Usoku yet. However, there would be a resistence led by the successors of the Am Fah and Jade Brotherhood.
• Usoku’s actions got redacted, and Cantha’s openly trying to re-estate contact and trade.
• The state is split. The Emperor itself could go either way, more likely to be anti-Usoku, and the Celestial Ministry due to its ineffectiveness may have likely been replaced fully by the Ministry of Purity. There’d not so much be a power struggle, but more of an uncertainty of action – Cantha does politics differently than Kryta, so there’d be no attempts to undermine each other politically but rather through the use of assassinations. As such, the successors of the Am Fah/Jade Brotherhood and the successors of the Obsidian Flame are likely the real power behind the politics, being the ones who work in the shadows and determine which contracts – if any – they would take or not. Politicians have to play nice, or else they’d find a drink that doesn’t taste quite right.

-more in next post-

Observed Ally: Forgotten. They helped the Six Gods against Abaddon and guarded his prison afterwards (even aided Kormir/Order of Whispers/us in cleaning up the mess afterwards), found a way to reverse the mental effects of Elder Dragon corruption, effectively saved the kitten s of all other ancient races (seer, jotun, dwarf), and guarded Ascension so that no wanna-bes like Turai would screw up the Flameseeker Prophecies. Lets not forget that they held the charr at bay for who-knows-how-long when they were led by the Khan-Ur (aka their strongest and most unified time outside being subjugated by the Flame Legion), and supposedly kept the other races in balance.

Guessed Ally: Joko. I like to view him as an anti-villain. Though he does bad things, he’s a “lesser evil” to all other evils out there, and being impossible to kill with an army of undead under his palm, he can be useful as an ally but someone you don’t want as an enemy.

Observed Enemy: Titans. Able to wipe the floor out with the only other truly threatening non-Elder Dragon enemy, the mursaat, and at the same time a single Titan can act as a small unit (due to the breakdown effect), and they’re supposedly very strong lore-wise.

Guessed Enemy: Mordremoth. If the Wychmire Swamp meta and the Shadow of the Dragon are indeed tied to him, that makes him the one and only Elder Dragon capable of corrupting sylvari, meaning he’s the one and only Elder Dragon capable of corrupting all playable races.

Duncan the Black was attempting to harness the soul of the Great Destroyer – whether or not this is even possible, unclear (as it’s not really shown if destroyers have souls, given how they’re – at least mostly – mockeries of life created right from stone).

Now, harnessing the Great Destroyer’s power is another story… but I don’t think its possible either. Per The Trek of the Zephyrites, the corpses of dragon-shaped dragon champions still hold magic (other dragon champions unclear, given it says “Dragons consume magic, but they do not destroy it. They hold it within themselves like a sponge holds water.” So it’s unclear if it means dragons be they Elder or Champion or Elder Dragons and their champions.). However, despite this, the Great Destroyer’s body exploded upon death. While the pieces of the Great Destroyer may retain magic, I find it unlikely given said explosion – which is an outburst of energy. The Great Destroyer’s withheld magic may have been released in the explosion, similar to Abaddon’s own attempted explosion but on a much smaller scale due to lesser magic. It is also possible it sent all of its magic to its master as it died (after all, its purpose was to wake Primordus up; unlike Glint) – if such is even possible.

As to the Great Destroyer still being a power source – presuming that the body shards did indeed retain magic – would be dependent on how fast magic radiates out of the body, and if it does. Like the Elder Dragons, some dragon champions are known to radiate magic when hibernating (see: Drakkar). This may or may not include death.

As to Baelfire, my theory is that the Flame Legion had been tapping into Primordus’ power – knowingly or not. My evidence is as follows:

• Burning Forest – Shrouded in acrid smoke and igneous heat, this is the site of fiery self-mutilation rituals performed by members of the Godforged – a Flame Legion sect dedicated to the deification of Gaheron Baelfire.
• The Godforged – each and every one of them have fiery hands and eyes, sometimes guts as well. Similar to the Flame Legion shamans.
• Dead Drops during Flame and Frost – Having Baelfire rituals more often. and A Flame Legion shaman refused to give flame magic to moletariat-selected dredge. They burned him alive, and the dredge got their disturbing transformation. – Referring to the dredge with fiery eyes and and hands, like the Godforged and Flame Legion shamans. May be the name for the “fiery self-mutilation ritual” meaning they started with Gaheron.
• One of said Baelfire ritualized dredge shouted something along the lines of “Burn! Burn! Buuurrrrnnnn!!!” as its aggro shout. Very destroyer-like, IMO.
• Champion Drakin Cinderspire – a powerful Flame Legion shaman, utilizes a Destroyer sword and a Destroyer axe.
• My final point is how Primordus would corrupt living beings, which ties into your last question – if they’d transform. From this interview:

ArenaNet (Ree Soesbee) : I think that it’s, perspective wise, it’s more like the troll or the grawl has a layer of rock over them. They turn a little bit elemental in –

ArenaNet (Jeff Grubb and Scott McGough) : Sort of like Jormag and the Sons of Svanir

ArenaNet (Scott McGough) : The icier the Sons of Svanir, the more corrupted they are. I would say that Primordus can-

ArenaNet (Ree Soesbee) : The rockier they are…

ArenaNet (Scott McGough) : Yeah.

ArenaNet (Jeff Grubb) : There are rules for the Elder Dragons but they’re not the same rules for every Elder Dragon.

ArenaNet (Ree Soesbee) : It’s kind of like he’s converting those living creatures into stone.

Though interesting they use “rock” rather than “fire” or “lava” – I’d think it’d be the same effect. The insides burning out, similar to how icebrood slowly turn to ice.

Infamous Darkness.3284:

Yes but we have also killed quite a lot of the flame legions leadership don’t you think that a headless snake could be make to follow a new master?

Killed Imperator Balefire
Killed 3 Tribunes I believe (path 1 CoF [the guy making the searing effigy], path 3 tribune, and the one that is killed in south central fireheart rise)

With there only being 10 tribunes at a time and assuming no new tribunes have been appointed at best for them they would be down to 7 tribunes and no imperator. Imagine if this was the US government it would be similar to the president, Secretaries of Agriculture, Commerce, Defense all being killed it would leave huge areas of the nation vulnerable. (not a perfect example I know)

Flame Legion has bowed down to Scarlet recently it seems.

It should be noted that, until the Nightmare Court and excluding the Aetherblades, all those who worked for Scarlet has had their former leadership removed. The Flame Legion you pointed out; the dredge lost their old moletariate and is in a civil war to restate a new one; the Inquest lost Kudu.

It’s possible that the Aetherblades are meant to be post-Taidha’s death Covington Pirates, as Taidha was an admiral who had led multiple pirate captains under her (all of which are shown located in Bloodtide Coast). Though the Order of Whispers was trying to get that laid-back Elonian pirate to be the leader, nothing says they succeeded.

Though given the billions of Aetherblades killed… one has to wonder where the hell they got their forces from.

Ah, sorry, I went off topic.

TL;DR Flame Legion seems to be working with Scarlet in full given the returned numbers of the Molten Alliance.

Infamous Darkness.3284:

@Edusd yes it does give them some reasoning to join up with the dredge as they may have been feeling a bit cornered but if their alliance is defeated, as they have taken several losses in the destruction of their weapons plants, could the alliance’s/scarlet’s defeat be the final straw that completely breaks the flame legion’s will to fight and destroys the moral of their soldiers. Thus brining them under Smodur’s control. I absolutely agree that in their current state they wouldn’t be willing to join the alliance or serve under Smoder, but as his list of enemies shrinks his power will grow not to mention the advances in technology made by his legion.

Doubtful. Even the lowest grunts of the Flame Legion seem to be sexist. It’s part of ArenaNet’s way of making sure players are always “the good guys” – by making enemy factions black (despite their claims otherwise). All enemy factions seem to be heartless stab-their-mothers-in-the-back folks, with only a small handful of exceptions among them.

I believe the Flame Legion on a whole – not just the leaders but the grunts as well – are far too stubborn and held up in their old beliefs to come into the charr legions peacefully. They would either need to be wiped out or enslaved – and doing the later just makes the rest of the charr hypocrites, which they don’t seem interested in being.

Elidath.5679:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

the point is that it was tech not magic used.

There is the problem in this discussion. Those are you point. Not mine. I’m not saying tech wasn’t here, and magic was everywhere.
I will quote myself : " yes, tech exist in the plot, which I don’t deny, but no, I don’t see it as critical to an overwhelming majority of LS update." Note the absence of “magic was important” or “tech didn’t exist/happen”

And my point has been – though my wording may have been confusing, as usual – that tech is critical to an overwhelming majority of the LS update.

Magic, however, is not critical to an overwhelming majority of the LS update.

Elidath.5679:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

And even if you could replace how the toys are made, it’s still a fact that the plot revolves around technology.

Tech was used, but it was not what made the story. Magic could have been used almost every time, because the tech in itself was just a convenience, not a critical plot point.

The plot would be radically different if it was magic and not tech. Hence my use of “revolves around” – e.g., tech is critical to those plots, as those plots would not be remotely the same (if only aesthetically) if not for that tech.

Elidath.5679:

As for the QJ: the opening ceremony would in fact differ slightly. But you can’t really argue that the ceremony was the whole update, the vast majority of it didn’t depend at all on the nature of the knights. In fact, the ceremony is only the tie in to CC which depend heavily on this fact (as I recognized since the begining). Which is in line with my point that tech is sometime important but not always.

The opening ceremony is the vast majority of the plot for the update. The rest of the update wasn’t really much plot, just some background lore to it.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Elidath.5679:

as a sidenote, I really do wonder how you can you read “QJ doesn’t show any tech” anywhere in my posts?

“tech, while present, isn’t of any plot relevance in Wintersday, SAB, everything Southsun, and the Queen’s Jubilee (not Clockwork Chaos).”
That’s what I was responding to.

Well, if you read this quote, you’ll see that I recognize the presence of tech in those.[/quote]Recognition of presence != recognition of plot relevance. Which has been my point.

I never said you denied tech to exist. I said you denied tech to exist as plot dependency and/or relevancy.

Dustfinger.9510:

I don’t think we can acknowledge the “tech” in ‘magitech’ without acknowledging the “magi” in it as well.

The issue – to me – is that magic in magitech has been devolved into being simply a powersource.

What magic there is in all of GW2’s magitech can be replaced with running water, steam, burning coal, oil, or gas and there’d be little to no difference.

To say magic is important in the magitech of GW2 is like saying that it’s important the battery for a remote control is Alkaline instead of Duracell.

Tauril.8504:

If she knew for certain that there was no redemption possible for Nightmare Courtiers due to the influence of a dragon I’m not sure she would behave the way in TA story.

You haven’t played a sylvari have you… in just about every personal story dealing with Caithe, she goes on about how there is no redemption for the Nightmare Coutiers. This is shown the most during the Shield of the Moon storyline.

Tauril.8504:

The first is considering Scarlet’s nearly unlimited capabilities and resources, you’d think she would have found Malyck and his tree by now. The second is that considering how Malyck completely disappeared from even the late personal story (where you could legitimately have expected him to make a return), I don’t think Anet is anywhere near ready to explore such an important part of the lore.

I don’t see the first as an issue. What if she has found his tree? Maybe that’s how she knows.

The second is also not an issue either. Honestly, I’m unsurprised we don’t hear from Malyck in the later personal story (and glad, given how if we did, he would have been killed off most likely). We don’t know how many sylvari there are from his tree, nor how long it would take to convince them of a problem known as “Elder Dragons” – heck, maybe they have problems of their own (Mordremoth). He promised to return with an army… but if he cannot get that army? Then he’s just risk making his presence known to the Nightmare Court, and that would be counterproductive to the reason why his identity was kept secret in the first place.

Erukk.1408:

Or maybe it’s something a bit more Jerry Springer-esc.

Scarlet: Hey Faolain! Did you here the news on Caithe?
Faolain: What?
Scarlet: She’s secretly seeing someone new. I hear it’s pretty serious, and it’s a man!
Faolain: RAWR

Scarlet: And it’s not just a man… it’s Rytlock!
Faolain: -Attack all the charr.-

Narcemus.1348:

Well, you never know with Scarlet. The biggest reason that everyone kept the Malyck secret was because if the Nightmare Court knew they could likely just kill the Pale Tree and start over with a new “influenceless” one. At least, that is what I remember from playing that storyline around a year ago.

So… Scarlet telling Faolain could just be a way to instigate some major fighting between the Nightmare Court and the Pale Tree while she goes off on her own to study the new tree.

The instigation was my line of thought too. Though it’d risk the NC going to corrupt the new tree, that “new tree” is exactly what Scarlet’s wanting – so far as we know at least. So she’d be wanting to wipe out the controlling forces of her tree’s sylvari, and the best way to do that is to instigate a full out confrontation rather than guerrilla attacks on each other.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

I do agree, though, that the dialogue in-game is not very clear as to rather Canach went personally with the team or not. Indeed, some of it even seems to conflict. At the moment, I don’t know that we can say with any certainty rather or not he journeyed with his expedition.

Erm…

This is the sworn statement of Canach, Secondborn.
While under contract to the Consortium,* I began Preliminary exploration and development of the island later known as Southsun Cove.*
During the initial survey, my team located an unknown species of plant. My contract precluded me claiming or profiting from any animal, mineral, or magical resources on the island, but plant life was not mentioned. I therefore ordered my team to collect samples of the plant as they mapped the island and set up an asura gate to facilitate access to Southsun Cove.
I cannot swear to what provoked the karka attack on Lion’s Arch, but I expect it was a combination of my team’s presence and their activities on the island.
I regret my actions and the harm they have caused. As a show of good faith in the hope of ending the karka threat, I have enclosed a copy of the initial survey map and all accomanying notes.

—Canach

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Lost_Shores/Phase_1#Intermediary_mails

Sounds like he was part of that expedition, to me. His and Noll’s retreat seem to be why the karka went to Garrenhoff and Morgan’s Spiral.

Edit: If that isn’t confirmation enough, there were some interactive objects added to Southsun Cove – near each settlement – one of which is the log of the captain of the ship that took the expedition team to Southsun Cove. It includes mention of Canach being with them, iirc. Sadly, I don’t think any of them are on the wiki.

The slight mistake the OP made: Canach didn’t send an expedition team. He was the expedition team’s leader. That’s when he became more familiar with the island, when he was exploring it with the Consortium. He was there before The Lost Shores, and in fact, Canach is the reason why the karka got so riled up. In other words, he was the main reason why The Lost Shores events even happened.

He was given orders by the Consortium not to touch with the animals there, and used this as a loophole to experiment with and examine the plantlife there – particularly the Passion Flowers; this in turn kitten ed off the karka for unclear reasons, and the reason why they invaded Lion’s Arch, Garrenhoff, and Morgan’s Spiral is because they were retaliating against Canach and those who escaped (they escaped to Lion’s Arch then headed to Tanto Trade Post and Garrenhoff).

Furthermore, Owain was not the only survivor. Canach and Noll were both part of the expedition team too. Owain was the only survivor who didn’t flee the island.

As to where he was between Lost Shores and Secret of Southsun – he was on the run from the Consortium. Some members of the Consortium (Noll being one) wanted him dead and had been sending mercenaries after him repeatedly. We were told in a forum post that he spent time fighting the Molten Alliance after they popped up, hence why he got those gloves, so that’s part of where he was.

The wiki has all this, though not in such details, on Canach’s article – it does have it in detail on karka’s article though. (I think I’ll expand Canach’s article to show his full story…).

Kestin.2368:

I’m hoping to write a story or something about the transformation he went through during this interlude, so if any of you seasoned lore experts can help fill up these holes, it would be most appreciated.

This forum post by Scott McGough may be helpful.

I haven’t done the new dungeon path – and probably wont for another week and a half due to going out of town tomorrow – so excuse me if this is out of the ballpark and debunked… but I doubt it is given this discussion…

/putontinfoilhat

Caithe knows the true status of Mordremoth and its relation to the sylvari (if any – still holding to the suspicion of Nightmare Court = Mordremoth’s influence, thus showing that sylvari are not fully immune to Elder Dragon corruption), and has been keeping this secret from all. Which would explain Caithe’s overzealous “all Nightmare Courtiers must die, show no mercy” which she only shares for dragon minions elsewhere (except possibly the “no mercy” part), and would explain why she’d keep it away from Faolain… if the Nightmare Court actually knew the source of the Nightmare, they would try to herald it further.

/takeofftinfoilhat

Or, more likely, this is her secret. And we know Caithe’s been keeping that from Faolain, erased all knowledge of that from everyone, leaving only 4 individuals to know about it – herself, the sylvari PC, Trahearne, and Amaranda.

If either situation is accurate, then I have just instantly become 100 times more interested in Scarlet’s plot. Now if only ArenaNet wasn’t bent on spending 10 years to tell it.

I have to wonder if Scarlet really knows any secret of Caithe’s.

Keep in mind per this interview that Scarlet didn’t see what she thought she saw when she “witnessed the Eternal Alchemy” – specifically, what she thought she saw was the fate and design of the sylvari race, and the parallelness between the Pale Tree and Nightmare Court, and between Caithe and Faolain.

I’ve been playing the series for for ~7 as well, since June 2006, and I fully agree with you Aedil. I do feel there’s continuity in the lore, but not even remotely close to enough to make it feel like a proper sequel, especially in the Living Story where the only continuity we get is the Zephyrites, and that continuity is hidden behind interviews and out-of-game-ness.

There was a lot of stories in GW1, some of which are hinted at or touched upon in GW2 but not delved into at all, and none of which people would really see without scouring the internet for short stories and interviews.

And I cannot agree any more than I am about the “Living World” story not telling much. Even if they say there’s story there, and we’ll see it… if we get nothing or next to nothing then our interest won’t be caught. I keep hearing “there’s a story we’re telling” but with it never showing its head… how am I to believe such?

Dondarrion.2748:

Scarlet is far from crazy, that’s just her maniacal laugh fooling you; she’s got something big planned… at least I hope so.

Scott McGough had outright said that she’s insane. And it’s thanks to the sensory deprivation device she went in thinking she’d see the Eternal Alchemy.

Kyrel.8942:

It could be what “really” happened

No, not really. Not without retconing the Edge of Destiny novel’s climax.

Most of the “this is wrong” statements about previously established lore use the foundation of subjective truths – it only works when we’re told something, not shown it. Edge of Destiny shows how Snaff dies, so we know the objective truth of it – there could be subjective views of it, but it doesn’t change the fact that Snaff was killed by Branded during the battle with Kralkatorrik.

In terms of the GW universe, the only centaur anatomy I recall coming across would be Olias in Nightfall where he says:

“Centaurs have a similar bone structure to Charr, actually. Their spine is slightly curved, easy to shatter if one knows just how to strike. I look forward to dealing with them.”

HiddenNick.7206:

You have two more weeks to do it… All LS releases last a month. That name is just misleading.

Wrong. Only the first of the month lasts for a month. The second update in the month lasts for 2 weeks.

Every LS ends at the end of the month irregardless. Which is IMO stupid as it causes people to rush, and if they miss 2 weeks? lololtoughluck. (Hey, ArenaNet, what happened to you saying that in the LS you’d be able to catch up if you miss 2-3 months worth of content?)

The machine didn’t allow one to see the Eternal Alchemy (despite Andele’s statement, it’s more than just “what we don’t know” but rather “how the universe functions” – it’s not a physical thing so it technically cannot be seen). Rather, he made a placebo machine. The machine, per an interview with TowerTalk and Scott/Angel, was just a sensory deprivation device.

That means Ceara went batkitten crazy from being unable to feel, see, hear, smell, or taste anything. And she hallucinated (hence placebo). What she saw happened only in her head and nowhere else. If she were to ask the Pale Tree what she meant in Scarlet’s vision, the Pale Tree would say “when did that ever happen?” because it didn’t happen.

They’re stuck in a time loop, like the rest of the world not related to the current LS update.

Forever trapped, forever waiting. They wait for their diplomat to show up. A wait that will never end. Standing… standing… watching… waiting… praying for an end to it all.

On a serious note: One of the many oversights the LS teams make – I blame their rushed schedule. Don’t worry, they’ll be removed “when its done.”

Elidath.5679:

change the Tixx baloon to a static factory, his mechanical toys with AI to plush inhabited by elemental spirits, and you get 100% the same event.

Except that his toys work with gears and power crystals (even if we don’t always see this), his balloon is not static, and there’s still the situation of Toxx and the programming she altered (there were interactive objects where Tixx and Toxx was in the dungeons, which explained Toxx was making the toys go haywire upon creation).

And even if you could replace how the toys are made, it’s still a fact that the plot revolves around technology.

Elidath.5679:

Change the Southsun mega-laser to a giant charr cannon, you get 100% the same course of action.

Er… so change one kind of magitech to something that’s 100% tech and you get the same course of action.

Doesn’t change that the plot revolves around us using technology to stop the karka – even if you can change it to magic without affecting the plot much, the point is that it was tech not magic used.

Elidath.5679:

Change the (magically disguised) clockwork knights* to total illusions, you get the same plot. Make the whole SAB a magical dream-affecting ritual, you get the same plot (for a player point of view at least, this one’s backstory at least depend on tech).

Given how the plot was how Scarlet was hijacking the clockwork knights (Opening Ceremony), no, you cannot get the same plot. Similar, sure, not same.

As before, doesn’t change the fact that Queen’s Jubilee, like Clockwork Chaos, as an emphasis on technology.

Elidath.5679:

The plot of those wasn’t “tech”. It was “the toys are going haywire” or “kill the karka queen”. It was coated with a (varying level of) tech flavor, but it doesn’t make tech important in and by itself.

The toys were tech. I disagree.

Finding out about the ancient karka (karka queen’s something else) was only because of tech. Killing it was only because of tech. While it’s not in the most basic of summaries of the plot, it was a part of the plot. You cannot dumb things down to such generic levels and expect the argument to hold.

Elidath.5679:

In fact, most of the tech gizmo we see are just magic disguised as tech.

Not quite. While in most cases, magic is used as an energy source, that’s all its used for. It’s not a disguise, it’s just a replacement for batteries and electrical cords. It’s an explanation to avoid having to add in dozens of generators and power plants.

Elidath.5679:

I don’t see how just saying “a wizard did it” would not work. If anything, the asura are too much a motor force for the LS. but tech in itself? I don’t see it. In a world where rifles, tanks and choppers are a thing, most tech we see in LS easily blend in the background.

I fully agree the asura are too much of a motor force – in the same way that sylvari are too easily a “be anything” kind of character race. Just saying “a wizard did it” doesn’t work because it gives no explanation, no extrapolation. It’s no different than simply saying “Abaddon did it” or the GW2 version, “Scarlet did it.”

“You want to know about the intricacies and reasons behind the events happening around you? Why the castle floats? Why villagers disappear to never be heard from again? Why this pair of elementals, usually hostile but benign in this village, occasionally turn hostile? Simple. A wizard did it.”

Not very compelling, is it. That’s why “a wizard did it” – or just as bad, “asura did it” “tech did it” “Scarlet did it” – doesn’t work. Abaddon worked because he was pointed out as the one behind things after we learned how the things were done.

Elidath.5679:

*as a sidenote, I really do wonder how you can you read “QJ doesn’t show any tech” anywhere in my posts? o_O
I never said such a thing, and in fact recognized multiple times the existence of the clockwork knights, and the fact that QJ was part tech in flavor.

Uh…

“tech, while present, isn’t of any plot relevance in Wintersday, SAB, everything Southsun, and the Queen’s Jubilee (not Clockwork Chaos).”

That’s what I was responding to. The Watchwork Knights are of plot relevance. Half of the Queen’s Jubilee’s plot is the Watchwork Knights, if not more. And the advancement in human technology is why they’re of plot relevance (aside from Scarlet hijacking them), which is why they cannot simply be replaced with fullblown illusions. Because then Scarlet’s acts with them in the Opening Ceremony, and the true and full importance of them, no longer exists.

I think that if they went that direction, not only would they be retconing Edge of Destiny in large scale that cannot be argued as anything but a retcon, as the novel shows Caithe trying to stop Branded from killing Snaff (some slip past her and she cannot catch up before they reach Snaff), but it’d also be retconing the in-game dialogue by both Caithe on multiple accounts (most easily seen being SE story mode’s concept art cinematic) and Eir – both of which state Snaff was killed by Kralkatorrik’s minions (aka Branded).

And if they made a retcon that big, then ArenaNet would have lost all saving grace.

Elidath.5679:

@Konig: tech, while present, isn’t of any plot relevance in Wintersday, SAB, everything Southsun, and the Queen’s Jubilee (not Clockwork Chaos). in all of those you can replace tech explanation by magical ones without any noticeable impact. And magic had as much focus as tech in F&F (don’t forget the flame legion involvement! They wouldn’t be here if not for magic). Which balance things quite well in my eyes.
And it still wouldn’t invalidate the point I want to make that seers wouldn’t be absent “because tech”.

Excuse me, but how is “tech not plot relevant” in a flying hot air balloon with renegade mechanical toys made haywire by artificial intelligence? That’s the plot of last Wintersday. That is 100% pure raw technology. At the very least, magical technology given its asura.

And the Lost Shores has a good amount of tech relation to its plot. Remember Researcher Levvi? She used tech not only to detect the karka’s invasion, but to counter their hard shells. You’ll find the product of which around Southsun Cove in the form of environmental weapons. You may have even partook in the research for the solvant to desolve the karka shells – did you go visit the quaggan, largos, and hylek in the scavenger hunt that weekend? Furthermore, said solvent was fired via catapults along with the lasers we can still see near Canach’s Folly during Defeat the ancient karka finale.

No tech to the plot of SAB? Think again. – and that’s ignoring the whole fact that the entire thing is a video game, which of itself is technology. The SAB wouldn’t exist without technology. The entire main plot and the sub-plot revolves around asuran technology being used as learning devices, and the rivalry between Moto and his former krewe. It is 100% technology related. Just because it’s holograms and jumping games instead of fighting massive robots of destruction doesn’t mean it’s not tech-based.

Queen’s Jubilee is also tech base. The Watchknights say hello.

And no, I would argue in those cases you could not replace technology with magic and it’d be unchanged. Maybe the SAB itself, but not the plot around it, and not the others either.

The only magic-only used, however, plotwise or no, has been Thorn and Zephyrites. Possibly Tequatl’s power boost. While it’s not a “major focus,” technology is of plot relevance in everything I said. That being every update but Secret of Southsun/Last Stand at Southsun and Bazaar of the Four Winds/Cutthroat Pirates.

While it’s possible to have a more magic-centric plot revolving that of Tequatl’s power boost and the Zephyrites (which may or may not be directly or indirectly tied, given both deal with the Elder Dragons somewhat), most LS has been or included technology whereas most LS has had a lack of magic. Closest we get to including magic… is magitech.

Alright, I’ll bite.

Top 5 Releases
Note: I’m considering things on a whole per monthly update. Except being SAB (both updates) and Tequatl Rising
(from best to least best)

1. Shadow of the Mad King (though the finale was lackluster to me, everything else about it was great)
2. Flame and Frost (as a whole – though content wise it was spaced thin, I feel like later story chapters happen too fast for me to bother caring about what’s happening)
3. Bazaar of the Four Winds (it tied in GW1 lore for the first time since Halloween, excluding Dragon Festival returning as Dragon Bash)
4. Super Adventure Box (because the first time, it was bloody hilarious and enjoyable)
5. Tequatl Rising (though not perfect, a permanent update to the world boss was great)

Worst 5 Releases
(from worst to least worst)

1. Secret of Southsun (felt supriorly choppy, half-baked, and rushed – at best. Though it did give us the Karka Queen and a few new events to Southsun along with some things to speculate over properly (them spores them spores) so it wasn’t all bad).
2. Super Adventure Box: Back to School (it turned something that was 100% jokes and references for April Fool’s into canon lore… It also came out too soon since the first part with too much grind-feel with the bauble achievements that I held no gaming interest in it)
3. Wintersday (half of it felt like repeating the same kitten thing over and over and over)
4. Dragon Bash (because of the immense grind (Dragon Effigies, holograms), repeating old content (jp caches), and Aetherblade Retreat’s wtf insane bonus achievements, the intro cinematic for Marjory also felt very un-GW2-y – its plus side? Dragon Arena, fun. as. hell.).
5. The Lost Shores (too short, too little post-meta content, too kitten laggy for finale meta)

Top 5 Design concepts
Note: Here, I refer to the concept behind the content or its release – not necessarily tied to a specific content update as some span across multiple.
(from best to least best)

1. Monthly releases (RIP)
2. Progressional story (though it is not a “living story” nor is it a “living world” as it all focuses on Scarlet and her actions’ reprecussions and SAB; sans Tequatl Rising)
3. Finally adding permanent content (should have happened sooner…)
4. Those interactive objects in dredge/Flame Legion camps added during F&F Part 3; as well as the interactive objects added to Southsun. Could use more of these things.
5. Wider variety of backpack items and weapon skins (though they all have their draw backs which really reduce things)

Worst 5 Design concepts
(from worst to least worst)

1. Bi-weekly releases with too much temporary content. The lack of polish shows more of then than not (P.S., what happened to “when its ready”?).
2. How story is told (not enough details over too long a time period; I know this sounds counteractive with listing F&F as 2nd in best releases but that update gave enough throughout to keep people guessing, even at the end, but not too little that they can guess anything and everything and be equally likely; furthermore they didn’t restrict the knowledge gained from the short stories to said short stories – it wasn’t perfect, but it did a far superior job than any subsequent update has in storytelling – its placement in the timeline compared to initial release content is also confusing. Also, too much comedic relief).
3. Repeating old content with temporary changes (e.g., Caching Out and Learn to Kite )
4. Temporary achievements whom’s content can be done at any time later on (e.g.,, all Aetherblade killing achieves from Sky Pirates in Tyria, and all invasion achieves from Clockwork Chaos)
5. Scarlet Invasion happening just after Champion loot bags’ introduction (promoting farming, anyone?)
   Special Honorable Mention (because it’s just that bad): Every single update including “New items in the Gemstore!” with over half being RNG based (even Tequatl Rising had RNG gemstore items – the dyes). New items/returning items isn’t bad, but having new RNG determined items every single time with such highlights?
   Special Special Honorable Mention (because I feel it needs to be mentioned): ArenaNet giving out a pay to win item – Ellen Kiel/Evon Gnashblade Support Bundles Pay money to get an advantage over other players!

Elidath.5679:

[…]
– 3 non technological festivals, two being in the “one month update” scope ;
- 2 SAB (not technology focused, it use technology but never shows it) ;
- 1 boss update (no relation to tech at all) ;
[…]
- 4 F&F updates. The first wasn’t tech related (only refugees). All where 1 month updates.
[…]
At most 8 (counting the discutable SAB) out of 15 in the last 9 month.

- SAB is fully magitech.
- Fighting Tequatl also got an improvement to… magitech laser!
- Flame and Frost centralized around the Molten Alliance, which was fully about advancing magitech.
- Let’s not forget Shadow of the Mad King which was using asura tech to investigate Mad King Thorn and used such to keep him in the Mad Realm whenever he popped through the hole leading to his encounter dungeon.
- Wintersday was also all about asura tech. So you’re wrong about 3 non-technical holidays even if you were to argue Shadow of the Mad King doesn’t count.
- Lost Shores utilized asura magitech to detect, and later fight, the karka threat.
- Dragon Bash utilized asura magitech once more in its decorations, and featured Aetherblades (why did you separate Dragon Bash from the Aetherblade encounter?)

This makes it now 11 months which contained tech or magitech related stuff: October, November, December, January (indirectly), February, March, April (via two content stuff), June (via Aetherblades in both updates), August, September (return of SAB/way to fight Teq), and now October. 11 out of 13 months.

If you go by just updates, you still have:
1) Shadow of the Mad King (used to investigate and counter Thorn)
2) The Lost Shores (used to investigate and counter karka)
3) Wonderful Workshop of Tixx (used by Tixx)
4-6) Flame and Frost parts 2-4 (used by Molten Alliance – you can argue no for Prelude but not the others you cannot deny – so still 3 there minimum)
7) Super Adventure Box world 1
8) Dragon Bash (via Aetherblades’ terrorist attack and investigating them)
9) Sky Pirates of Tyria
10) Queen’s Jubilee
11) Clockwork Chaos
12) SAB World 2
13) Tequatl Rising (via lasers to fight Tequatl)
14) Twilight Assault

non-tech:
1) Flame and Frost: Prelude (if you want to argue the hints of dredge with fire magic and mention of Flame with technology doesn’t count)
2) The Secret of Southsun
3) Last Stand at Southsun
4) Bazaar of the Four Winds (if you want to argue the 1 Aetherblade event doesn’t count)
5) Cutthroat Pirates (if you want to argue the “Direct Support” content of fighting Aetherblades doesn’t count).

Elidath.5679:

And, yeah, I say “slightly”, because even if we hear a lot about Scarlett, she in fact didn’t do much at all: Sky Pirates and Clockwork Chaos, two 2 weeks updates, in 9 months. That is, as much as this BotFW you found wasn’t enough.

If you count Sky Pirates, you must count Flame and Frost. And there’s her appearance in Queen’s Jubilee. And the Aetherblades’ attack during Dragon Bash you seem to forget (poor Theo Ashford, forgotten captain). So that’s 6 full months undoubtably pertaining to Scarlet – out of 12. 6.5 out of 13 if you count Twilight Assault, and 6/6.5 out of 9/10 if you don’t count 2012’s monthly updates.

Sorry to derail. About the OP’s question on Seers – Ree’s answer in the interview likely referred to Arah Seer path, given how it’s considered the hardest dungeon path in the game and certainly is the longest in Arah (and undoubtably end-game content at that).

Given the direction ArenaNet’s going, don’t expect anything not SAB or Scarlet until 2014 at the earliest. Excluding festivities, which happen every other month to give us a change of pace from the Scarlet storyline (like that thing needs spacing out even more… that “giving us a change of pace” is part of why I hate Scarlet’s plot tbh).

@Drax: For how Elona is now, given the Movement of the World, it seems that it is in a similar state to Cantha during GW1, though perhaps more totalitarian. Istan and Kourna were turned into vassal states, much like the Luxons and Kurzicks have been, while Vabbi itself was conquered outright thus isn’t technically a vassal but an extension of Joko’s actual nation. Thus the whole of Elona make up his empire.

We actually don’t know if Kralkatorrik still learned the things Glint knew after she gained free will. It may have not only given Glint the chance of free will (at which point she would choose to continue following Kralkatorrik or go her own way – and it seems she went her own way due to her ability to read minds) but also severed the tie to Kralkatorrik that allowed him to learn all Glint knew.

Zhaitan wasn’t made up of dragon champions, but his degenerated (read: post starvation) appearance was that of a melded swarm of pieces of dragons (multiple heads, wings, and tails – possibly forearms too, but all still one giant body).

Glint is heavily hinted by Ilya’s wording to have once been a non-corrupted living being. Her ability of foresight or mind reading could have come from then. Given how Kralkatorrik showed no such abilities in Edge of Destiny, then it seems unlikely that he has them – primarily mind reading abilities.

Glint’s children are likely just a case of Glint making more “minions” (much like the Crystal Guardians and Crystal Spiders within her lair seem to have been), these being draconic in appearance. We know from Svanir that a dragon champion (Drakkar) can create another dragon champion (Svanir aka Nornbear). So it’s not impossible.

There’s a lot of room for awesome lore and story for all Elder Dragons, and other villains. But ArenaNet seems to be lacking in the “writing epic stories” department. They’ve got their characters down well enough, but not their exposition which totally destroys the view upon characters.

@Telekinesis: the Pale Tree doesn’t know what Ronan and Ventari knew. There is no evidence she knows about the White Mantle and Mursaat. She was sentient and watched as she grew, thus what she knows is limited only to what happened around her in regards to prior to the sylvari’s birth.

After the race’s birth, she knew all they found out. And a little extra via the nature of the Dream of Dreams (which she may have known prior to the sylvari’s birth).

I think they’re going to tie Tequatl’s boost of power to the Zephyrites, indirectly. Or so I hope… Or to Zhaitan’s death and finally stop skipping around the burning bush.

As said, there is the guild I lead, The Archivists’ Sanctum [Lore] – most of us main Sanctum of Rall or Tarnished Coast servers but there are no requirements to join.

For forums, this one is the most active for discussing lore I know of, other than rp-dedicated fansites.

P.S. Infamous Darkness, you should join us too.

However, that wouldn’t make sense kRiza, given Rox’s presence, as she talks about MA which happens – per our knowledge – post-Zhaitan.

1. I would have to disagree with this. What I pointed out is that Dhuum’s servants were providing souls. Furthermore, these souls were not sacrifices – they were food. There’s a huge difference between the two, and krait don’t eat their sacrifices. Regarding the Varesh-Morgahn scene, Kehanni’s description of Varesh’s actions actually sound like they were just killing while taking the place over, not as sacrifices but in atypical war – “Varesh attacked us! Demons! Everyone dead! Slaughtered!”. No other ritual that Varesh performed (out of three) required sacrifices either, it should be denoted.
2. Yes, they are explicitly stated to be sterile, but this is because they are those former humans. The Margonites humans were turned into etheric demons. There’s speculation that some of those fought outside of the Realm of Torment – the weaker ones – may have been the Kournans transformed given Captain Mehhan’s dialogue, but point is that every single Margonite was born human. With possible exception being Mallyx the Unyielding.
3. …
4. I doubt you can use grawl as a reasonable argument since they worship the statues, rather than the god the statue represents. There’s still nothing to indicate that the krait’s prophets – whom are proclaimed to be krait as well and also are known to originate in the ocean depths and most important seek to flood the world (something Abaddon does not want) – to be tied to Abaddon. And nothing relates Abaddon to the black ocean-floor obelisks, nor to the beliefs we see, nor to the power of the blue orb, nor anything related to the krait except “water.” And to use that as an argument? Might as well proclaim the Flame Legion once worshiped Balthazar.
5. Now, I ask you this: the faith within the krait prophets reaches back as far as krait history goes. Furthermore, if Abaddon was imprisoned, how would he go about recruiting them? And lastly, why promise the krait something Abaddon does not seek, and not use them for his plans? Too many loopholes here.
6. Except that he’s not really tied or connected to having been in/related to the actual ocean depths at all. His relation to the depths is more of “his knowledge is as vast as the ocean” – that’s really the entire watery tie there. You need to keep in mind that the Six Gods’ “elements” that they’re associated with do not carry on between succession and thus are likely just a persona addition – Kormir isn’t the goddess of water at all, nor was Dhuum the god of ice. If you try to connect things based on the elements, then you get the whole “Elder Dragons = Six Gods” situation again. It’s the same kind of argument, even if it’s a bit stronger. It’s still just taking very very loose ties and trying to make an argument of shared origins.

There’s quite a few big issues to your theory that it feels like you’re just brushing off, and you’re making ties via arbitrary things (“sacrifices”). In the end, perhaps the biggest issue to your theory is that of goal.

Abaddon’s goal was freedom and revenge – should he have gone to the kraits while imprisoned (the krait prophets are heavily implied to predate Abaddon’s fall though, given the age-like feel to it). The krait prophets’ goal is to flood the world and to effectively bring kraitdom above all, returning them to their “natural place in the world” (above all the pitiful land-dwellers).

I can see similarities, particularly in this line from Shadows in the Water: " Led by their priesthood, the Oratuss, the krait follow an ancient doctrine handed down to them by their abyssal prophets and constantly foretell of the prophets’ return. The krait religion is based on massive obelisks of a unique, dark stone that can be found exclusively and rarely on Tyria’s ocean floors. The krait believe that each of these obelisks was raised upon the site of a krait prophet’s ascension into a mystic world, a world beyond this one, where these nameless prophets are building an army great enough to eradicate all other species. One day, they will return and drown the surface of Tyria beneath one massive sea. The krait sacrifice slaves to show reverence to the prophets and to ensure that the prophets will have servants in their mystical “other world.”" But other than “building an army that the sacrifices will aid in” there’s not really much connection other than “watery depths” which is… not a very strong connection at all.

And like I said, the constant “ancient” denotations to it make it feel like the faith in the Prophets is far older than a millenia old.

I cannot see Thorn as the personal nemesis. I hope Scarlet’s not it either but too much of the so-called “Living World” story has been focused on her, her actions, and the repercussions of her actions (aka everything since January has). I would hardly call Scarlet “personal” though – that’s just a bunch of baloney that Angel spouted to get us hyped up for the villain. Like the whole “when it’s done,” having a living, breathing world in the game, and making the lore’s story “wider, not deeper” – it is just another empty promise.

Baine.9650:

Mad King is just mad, not trying to take over the world…..

Scarlet’s not trying to take over the world either, which is probably her most interesting part as a villain.

Her goal is the same as the goal for many heroes in the more philosophical anime. To give people free will – separate people, especially the sylvari, from this thing called “the Eternal Alchemy” which deems the place of everyone in the world, from small to large.

But you wouldn’t really get that unless you read the short story not even hinted at in the game and/or dig for an interview ArenaNet never mentions.

lordkrall.7241:

Parisalchuk.9230:

Your missing the point. Why is this lore outside of the game. Why has every revelation we have had about anything in the lore either given by a piece like this or through an interview with their lore team?

It hasn’t.
Scarlet was introduced in game for one.
So was the Molten Alliance and the Aetherblades.

Some things simply don’t make sense to put in the game and is not needed to understand the story, thus they can add them outside of the game to give it some extra flavor.

95% of everything we know about Scarlet, comes from either the short story on her or the interview about the short story.

The creation background of the Queen’s Jubilee the same. How old the Molten Alliance is, is also the same. The nature of magic in the world. The history of Cantha from Faction’s time. The majority of the origin story of Abaddon. Marjory being former Ministry Guard. All of this – comes from out of the games.

They don’t need to shove things in our face, but doing like they did with Ghosts of Ascalon lore – where you have Dougal Kaene, Killeen’s grave, Ember, Gullik, and a random plinth telling a majority of the important lore behind the novel in the game is perfect enough. All you need is some interactive objects or some NPCs to tell the main important parts of the short stories in the game, no more.

Let those who want the story dig for it if it must be so, but don’t force them to dig through the wide internet for an interview never mentioned by ArenaNet.

The sad thing is, the only revelation revealed in game during the course of the Living Story is “Scarlet made the Molten Alliance and leads the Aetherblades” – aka “Scarlet did it.” That’s the only revelation in the Living Story. But slap in those short stories and the interviews/look-backs by Angel and Scott, and you get so, oh so much more. Enough to make the lackluster villain called Scarlet Briar somewhat interesting. Enough to explain why the Molten Alliance can do so much damage so well. Enough to explain most of the issues to the LS’s plot (sans Tequatl…).

Zhaitan more or less already does that, Chips. This is seen in both Sea of Sorrows novel and The Source of Orr story step (if not elsewhere).

Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan: I can see into your very soul….
Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan: I see in your heart that you have lost someone to Zhaitan. Someone named…<Mentor>. He/She is waiting for you now, beneath the dragon’s wings…
Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan: All the death around you. All those who have gone before you. Come to Zhaitan, and find everything you have lost. You can be with them again.

1. Excuse me, but where is it ever said Abaddon’s a fan of sacrifice? I believe you mix the mursaat and the Door of Komalie – who were keeping Abaddon’s forces entrapped – with Abaddon’s forces. Furthermore, while demons did devour souls, nothing says he stole souls from the Underworld, per se (at best, those were Dhuum’s forces).
2. Actually, Margonites were born. They were originally a nation of sea-faring humans who lived along the coasts of Elona (Marga Coast is named after Margonites) and within the Crystal Sea. A krait couldn’t become a Margonite simply because they weren’t humans. They may become like them though, but such beings probably would have been seen in the Realm of Torment truth be told (if not utterly wiped out).
3. Nothing to support or deny this.
4. However, Abaddon was a god of the humans. Few non-humans revere the Six Gods – either on whole or partially, on both sides. And there’s nothing to really suggest the krait revere Abaddon in all we know of their faith.
5. Until Abaddon’s fall, he was the god of wisdom and knowledge rather than secrets. He became the god of secrets because he became a secret. According to Asian pre-release NF lore, Abaddon is implied to have advocated the sharing of knowledge, rather than keeping it secret.
6. Firstly, you presume that Abaddon knew of the Elder Dragons – it’s heavily implied the gods did not. Secondly, you presume that he would have an anti-Elder Dragon capability. And thirdly, you presume that people just “let” it be taken. Sayeh al’Rajihd’s dialogue implies that the orb originates from the depths, hence why it is something only the creatures of the water depths know of.
7. It’s always Scarlet, nowadays. After Nightfall, some developers of ArenaNet had made explicit mention of wanting to make the lore “wider, not deeper” – and tying everything to Abaddon and the other gods would make the lore deeper. Sadly, this also means that they’re redacting the gods’ actions left and right, making these gods less and less significant.

Honestly, I find it a dozen times more likely that the prophets of the krait is the Elder Dragon of the deep sea. The “Blue Orb” which is said to have its own dangers associated with it could possibly be trapping said Elder Dragon’s magic, to counteract the corruption of Zhaitan (alternatively, it’s an artifact of the Forgotten).

Infamous Darkness.3284:

The river of souls was diverted as to have a easy food source for Abbadon’s demon army. (I think it was Koning that said something along those lines) could be wrong, if I am wrong I’m sorry.

Pretty much. In their pact with Abaddon’s forces, Dhuum’s servants had been harvesting the souls of the River of Souls.

Soulweir gw.dat entry: Dam thrown across the River of Souls by the demons to allow them to harvest the souls of those touched by Abaddon.
River of Souls gw.dat entry: Once a flow that took the drained souls down into storage in the abyss. Since dammed by the natives of Bec’qessor, who feed on the still-conscious souls.
Bec’qessor gw.dat entry: Margonite city dominated by demons who have erected the soulweir and feast on the souls of the kitten ed.

Gate of Pain mission dialogue:
Undead Lich: Where are the souls you promised to Abaddon?
Emissary of Dhuum: My torturewebs are collecting them from the river now. Their work is slow, and they do not hurry for anyone, let alone you.
Undead Lich: Abaddon will not be pleased by your lack of progress. When I return, you will give me the souls I require or you will face Abaddon’s wrath.
Emissary of Dhuum: Save your threats. The soulweir’s power is tied to the torturewebs. Without the torturewebs, you have nothing, and they only respond to my commands.

That’s not actually true, Lucky. Most of the Risen in GW2 are sailors. The Orrians are just some of the coral-covered Risen seen in the lands of Orr itself. They seem to seldom leave Orr, but it should be noted that even among the coral-infested Risen – based on Sea of Sorrows – there can be Risen who died in the rising of Orr itself, let alone between the Cataclysm and Zhaitan’s awakening.

The Orrian undead in GW1 seen seem to primarily be the military of Orr. Why that army was a mixture of skeletons and zombies whereas GW2’s Risen is just zombie-like is unknown, however I think the answer lies in the fact that all of the Risen seen formed recently are turned into rotten and decayed-flesh creatures, despite the fact they should have still-normal skin that would just rot over time. And given how some are twisted to become more draconic like (Risen Knights) or simple abominations (and I don’t mean the Risen Abominations that’re stitched together), it may be that part of Zhaitan’s corruption is rotting – or adding rotten – flesh to the body.

Erukk.1408:

Now that I read her quotes again, Scarlet sounds like a only slightly more crazed (engineer) version of her.

Not really.

Eve is a “dark but good” crazy.

Scarlet is a “lighthearted and uncaring-about-others” crazy.

There’s a big difference, even if both are crazy.

In terms of maliciousness, Zhaitan’s risen seem more towards “we will kill to bring everyone eternal undeath” – Sea of Sorrows has that more or less stated by a couple risen even, and there are some in Orr who act similar too.

http://www.guildmag.com/magazine/issue9/interview.htm

GuildMag (Thalador): I was personally wondering that in the Crystal Desert back in Guild Wars 1 we saw lots of skeletons lying around and we considered them to be the skeletons of the Giganticus Lupicus.

ArenaNet (Jeff Grubb) : Some of them are, yes.

Getefix.9150:

Zhaitan does not actually command it, that is the job of his lieutenants, if you look at the brand, the destroyers or the ice brood (not sons of Svanir) they’re not organised and free thinking, most are mindless creatures of destruction

That’s like saying “Generals do not actually command their armies, that is the job of his lieutenants.”

The Branded are actually shown to be organized in Edge of Destiny. It’s just that the Dragonbrand is their “natural home” so to speak, so they have little need to be in formations 24/7 since they’re not solely an army for combat.

Plus, this dude is constantly organizing an army.

While the lowest level of branded are mindless, the Elder Dragons themselves are not. We have explicit proof of this in Edge of Destiny for Kralkatorrik.

Istan, Kourna, and Vabbi I don’t think were ever really called their own nations. They were “provinces” – part of the ancient nation called Elona that divided and reunited several times (first united by the Primeval Kings, then the Grand Dynasty, split by Shattered Dynasty, then reunited by Turai Ossa, then unclear of division geopolitically but ruled separately akin to the USA’s states at least, then reunited under Joko).