Guild Wars 2

Technically speaking…

The Mad Realm is not “Thorn’s domain” per se. He managed to rule over all those who got sent there, adding them to his Lunatic Court.

And the Mad Realm is part of the Underworld – aka part of the Mists.

And that, zencow, is not needed at all. Dialogue trees exist and can be used via NPCs and objects to give the main points – not direct from the short stories.

Though I don’t see why they cannot copy the My Story tab from the hero panel for these…

There’s several on that castle (nothing says it’s Castle Thorn, btw – Castle Thorn was the castle from when Ozzy lived), but I think the Shattered Keep only has 1 large one. Unless about 80% of the structure disappeared in Tyria, they’d be different.

That’s interesting. Last year, the clocktower was isolated and spinning around the Ascent to Madness.

I was actually wondering where Castle Thorn was from during his reign (I find it doubtful that the castle in Lion’s Arch was dubbed “Castle Thorn” so I’ve been thinking it was the Shattered Keep where we find Wynn’s ghost from the day of Ozzy’s death).

I wonder if that’s the original Castle Thorn – pulled into the Mad Realm ala Temple of the Six Gods style – or just a duplicate/something new.

I’d love to go there. _

A location from where you saw it would be nice. :P

Edit: I found it – SW corner of the labyrinth. Interesting. Also interesting it’s in the opposite direction of the map’s placement of the tower and Ascent to Madness.

rizzo.1079:

I agree. I think they should be conveyed in game somewhere, but the short stories are some of the best written content overall.

This.

Which is rather sad, that the best written content comes from out of the game.

Rekia.1480:

The stories are usually really “out of character”, so it would be hard to place them in an in game book or have NPCs talk about it without breaking immersion.

Excuse me, but how does Braham talking about his father at the end of Retake Cragstead break immersion?

How does Dougal Keane being asked about his trip to Ascalon City break immersion?

How does the Marriner Plaques break immersion?

Talking about the events of the story doesn’t break immersion if done properly. There’s dozens of examples for all three novels as well as the first two short stories published – Braham’s Story and Rox’s Tale – that got the main points of the information into the game.

Delvoire.8930 is pretty dead on about the main gripe – folks don’t want to be forced to go out of the game to learn the information from these stories. It’s not the existence of the stories, it’s that the stories are the sole source of this information.

It’d be like watching the Transformer series by Michael Bay then having to read a summary written by him online in order to understand why the robots are on Earth in the first place, because that isn’t in the movies.

In the end, you don’t need to add the short stories themselves to the game. You don’t need new art nor do you need new voice acting. Just take an old NPC model and make him a Priory member that has done research on the topic and can inform players. Or go with a newly added book to The Durmand Priory’s library. Or even with an object like this Plinth That’s all you really need. No fancy cinematics or the like. Just one NPC that tells the main points of the story. Hell, for most cases they already have an NPC that’d work, if he were permanent.

DarcShriek.5829:

You wouldn’t believe how many people would just go TL;DR at any attempt at exposition. Players just don’t like it. Keep it short, keep it simple. That’s all 90% of your players can handle. Short stories on the internet give the developers an opportunity to dive deeper into lore than is possible in game.

“Nothing” or “Next to nothing” in the entire game is not the same as “short and simple.”

There’s a grand difference between the two. And let’s face it, “hidden in game” is far superior to “hidden on the internet.” Especially when ArenaNet’s site search features are bad or the information comes from interviews that ArenaNet doesn’t even make mention of.

The Eye of the North was clearly made by Scarlet. You see, after her failed alliance with the krait she goes on another hell-bent scheme of mechanical overture but that too fails. At which point she’s managed to kitten off everyone with no success at all (but still feels herself superior to everyone), so she hops a ride into the Fractals of the Mists. However, the Jade Maw goes and knocks her off the edge. But instead of re-appearing near the beginning she gets shot through time and comes out to Tyria, 20,000 BE. The Elder Dragons are rising and Scarlet sees an opportunity. She knows the ED can be defeated and unite the races there (completely unknown to us whom these races are) and builds the Eye of the North to see into the far distance future for how to defeat the Elder Dragon. But they can only put them to sleep because they’re all magic and technologically deprived. But they succeed in putting them to sleep and she reigns over the races as Supreme High Sue for decades to come until the people got tired of her randomly killing people off and cut her to pieces Oswald Thorn style. Her greatest invention was the creation of a cybernetic canine race: the Giganticus Lupicus.

On the MA thing… that actually made some amount of sense.

Both groups were stuck in civil war and needed an edge over their enemies after their leaderships were killed off. And it wasn’t 4 seconds, but 4 months with a bunch of surprise attacks.

But I concur with the purpose of the thread.

What was said was…

Land-based historians and scholars theorize that the obelisks on the sea floor are not mystical, but are ancient monuments to religious figures and societal governors of the krait. Because the krait memorize their lore, some information has been lost over the centuries. The krait race has forgotten the obelisks’ true purpose and has invented instead a mystic reverence for the monuments and those they represent. Certainly, the obelisks are eerily smooth and have no symbols on them, and thus cannot relate their history firsthand. The krait Oratuss are the ones who interpret the meaning of these monoliths for their people—and because of the fanaticism of these priests and priestesses, the story of the obelisks’ creation and purpose has been twisted to religious use.

So it’s entirely up in the air. It’s unknown what their true origins are, since the proclaimed origins and religious ties are very likely to be tall tales told to control the krait populous.

However, about one being in the lake…

The krait religion is based on massive obelisks of a unique, dark stone that can be found exclusively and rarely on Tyria’s ocean floors.

Exclusively on the ocean floors. I wouldn’t call a lake an “ocean floor.”

Both quotes come from:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadows_in_the_Water_%E2%80%93_The_Krait

Scarlet found the shard and gave it to the krait, obviously. Thus she gained their support by showing herself to be religious to their cause. A “willing slave” in their view.

Walhalla.5473:

The first one is interesting, because of the name and the shard in the screen. While looking at the first, i have to ask another question. Why is this one in DR? Was it always there and phased out with ancient magic or did someone took it to DR?

Probably found and moved for study.

Or just there for the promotion screenshots to avoid spoilers for where it’d really be.

zwierz.9012:

We know they worship the obelisks, but there is none to be seen, right?

That’s because they’re supposed to be on the ocean floor. Not on land. So it’s only natural we wouldn’t found an obelisk. Unless the krait are right and the world was once submerged in water.

P.S., you guys are no fun. Fine fine, 220g split 3 ways vs. 120g split 6 ways is the current betting standing.

Marjory’s story was put up for DragonBash which introduced E. I don’t think there is a grand conspiracy about it…

@Zamalek: Jeff Grubb in an interview names off some of the “themes” for the Elder Dragons – naming, iirc, “fire, ice, vegetation, and elements” – This would point Mordremoth not being “nature” but “plantlife” which is an interesting difference (as nature is… well, a lot more than just plants), and Kralkatorrik seems to be not Crystal but Elements (he and his minions uses fire, earth, crystal, and lightning).

@Imperatora: Who says it affects no other race,?

Battle for Wychmire Swamp meta gives implications that the things usually tied to the Nightmare Court – Husks – are tied to something else. You got Summoned Husks, Blighted Husks, Avatars of Blight, Blighted Mortars, and… Blighted Grubs. Aside from the Great Jungle Wurm that is.

That’s 2 non-plant races affected – wurm and grub. THen you got other plants to – if the Nightmare is Mordremoth’s corruption than the things they corrupt are affected by Modremoth. Nightmare Hounds being the most obvious, but there’s also an event (aside from TA exp) where treants – specifically Mosshearts – are twisted by the Nightmare Court in Caledon Forest (lowest left corner).

And I’m going to have to tell you you’re wrong about something – the losing their personality. It’s actually a twisting of it, but they retain their memories and personality. They just also become fanatically devoted to their respective dragon. This is best seen in Sea of Sorrows novel where even the “rank and file” of the Indomitable retain their personalities (twisted though), but hints to it are also throughout the game – especially the icebrood and veteran risen (which aren’t “lieutenants” just slightly stronger). Icebrood quaggans are a prime example among the “rank and file” minions. There’s also the Risen villagers and the like that can be found mining, sleeping, and farming around Orr.

Eluveitie.1290:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Their thoughts, their emotions, do not get transferred.

I have to disagree here. I’ve just finished completing the Grove on my alt, and the dialogues are filled with this. One sylvari can -at least at some rate- sense what the other one is feeling. This wouldn’t be possible without the Dream, thus emotions must be transferred and can be sensed by others, or at least by someone whom is closely connected to the first sylvari.

In Edge of Destiny, Caithe feels empathy towards a bear in Lion’s Arch that was in an illegal bear-fighting ring.

I doubt the bear was tied to the Dream of Dreams. It seems a typical racial trait of the sylvari to be slightly empathetic to the creatures around them.

ignores above comment

What honor is there in burning our hatchlings while they sleep?

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Swift_Honorclaw

The term hatchling implies that they hatched from something, and given that tengu are avian, I think that they do indeed lay eggs.

I don’t recall that Edus, just that the Faren lineage is long lasting in nobility.

About the Mad King’s actions… I find something interesting from the short story: he claims he only ever killed as part of a joke. But some of the actions attributed to him – burning that Harathi Hinterlands village and wiping its name from history – seemed more like an act of pure blood-filled violence.

I’m wondering if the more cruel actions of the Mad King were actions Eddie’s doing, but since knowledge of him was removed no one knows that it was the Painlord (lolol) rather than the Mad King.

While it’s nice to have short stories that are pre-game-plot (like most of the short stories – note: most, not all; the Secret of Southsun short story should have been in the game as an instance, IMHO, as well as the Queen’s Jubilee short story and the Twilight Assault one (at least the first half) – all of these were based at the beginning of the release’s story, so they should have been in the game itself), I think that before you put effort into these short stories, you must put enough story into the game itself. Maybe not all of it, but enough so that we don’t have to go digging through the short stories – or worse, interviews – in order to understand pivitol plot points.

And even then, the information gleaned from the short stories should be available in the game itself. The novels did this pretty well and so did the Braham and Rox’s historical short stories from Flame and Frost – all the most important information from those five stories are (or in Braham’s case, was) in the game somehow. Ghosts of Ascalon has Dougal telling the main plot, a Plinth on the Viewing Hill telling a brief version of Ember’s telling of the Foefire, you have Killeen’s grave that Gullik visits and another NPC nearby both of which talk about said grave, and you have Ember herself who talks about the peace negotiations. Edge of Destiny has the Sorrow’s Embrace cinematic telling the most important part of the plot – the ending. And you have the Marriner Plaques for Sea of Sorrows. Braham’s short story had the jist of it explained in his Retaking Cragstead instance, while Rox’s short story has the jist of it explained by one of the NPCs in North Nolan Hatchery even now.

Those were done well. Having out-of-game stories is good and all, but they’re terrible if you’re forced to look out of game to get important plot points. And don’t give the BS (let’s be honest, it is BS and this is in no means an intended insult to you Bobby) that the short stories is for the “extra lore” because be frank, man. Without the short story or the interview with TowerTalk, all Scarlet is would be a batkitten crazy sylvari with no goal, no motivation, no reason, and no history beyond “she is asura-, norn-, charr-, and hylek-trained and graduated all three asuran colleges” and that Caithe knew (of) her while she was in the Grove. But the short story tells us who trained her (Beigarth, Asari, Inquest/Omadd, that hylek tribe I cannot recall) and gives a main gist of her history including her goals and why she’s batkitten crazy. The interview then tells us she only did specialized courses in the colleges and she didn’t see what she thought she saw so her motivation and goals are based on lies. That is very bloody important to understanding Scarlet. Without that she’s a 5-minute wonder with a maniacal laugh that reminds people of Harley Quinn. With the short story she gets some background but no depth and becomes a Villain Sue. With the interview that Villain Sue becomes removed. But no one would know about that unless someone from the community told them or they just happened to look in the right places.

Until that gets fixed – preferably retroactively (that is not a bad thing to do Anet, though I realize you seem to be hesitant to go and fix bad old things, do keep in mind that it isn’t bad to do that and that it’s better than introducing bad new things – go ahead and improve personal story fights and missions, redub lines if you must, fix highly bugged events, improve charr armor! Don’t ignore things just because it’d be tedious to fix or because “it isn’t popular” – if it isn’t popular, make it popular before you go introducing new things based on what’s popular, and for gods sake man, don’t go removing something that’s perfectly good except one thing that makes people hate it (TA’s F/U path))… where was it? Right, until you fix how you can get plot important lore that helps you understand why events are occuring or why people should care about a figure into the game, just putting it on the website will do absolutely nothing in the long run because in the end, people will only get frustrated that they must go digging through the internet to understand the plot.

TL;DR: A person should be fully capable of completely understanding the main plot and main characters – from reasons to actions – without going out of the story itself. It’d be like having to ask J.K.Rowling why Voldemort hates Harry Potter so much because she never included the fact that Harry was “the boy that lived” in the any of the novels.

Keep the short stories on the site, but for gods sake stop forcing us to go onto the site to understand important things. You better not be doing this just to get more website hits…

Why slap Colin? He didn’t do nothing wrong. All he does is smile and swing a sword!

Aaron Ansari.1604:

EDIT: Ninja’d by Larynx, but the wiki makes a mistake. Anise is the Master Exemplar, the head of the Shining Blade. Livia, as of Sea of Sorrows, was addressed simply as Exemplar, which appears to be the rank immediately under the leader. For an example of normal Exemplars, play CM explorable mode.

That’d be my fault, somewhat. Santax put she was called Master Exemplar, I removed the Master but missed the later bit of “the same rank as Countess Anise.”

Fixed.

GussJr.1643:

She was actually the leader of the Shining Blade in Sea of Sorrows, who’s soul purpose was to protect the Krytan line (in SoS, that was Edair – who’s whereabouts and/or fate are also unknown.)

Nope. She is only called an Exemplar and is treated as above the other Shining Blade members that are present.

To be fair, though, Aaron… those are ruins. a lot of the academy has been torn down and demolished. You can tell that just by the scenery. That one room is likely a bottom basement kind of place.

+1 for this idea. I was under the impression the achievements for TA would be available month long like everything else since they began the 2 weeks bit. I had to go out of town for a week and a half so only had the first two days to do TA’s new path before Halloween’s patch. I came back the day of Halloween’s patch to find out that I couldn’t get the achievements any more.

Honestly, I don’t care much for that backpack or the achievement points but I still feel lied to.

Though I would prefer the achievements always being available should the activities be available – and for the chance to do them if the activities (e.g., Labyrinthine Cliffs) return. Like what happened with SAB world 1 achievements, but there’d be no “historical” just “Living Story.”

P.S., Dear ArenaNet, what happened to this:

Robert Hrouda

I said this in another thread, but I’ll just say it again here…

The achievement should stick around, so when you reach level 75 you should be able to munch on it and get the achievement point. I don’t foresee Owain giving up on making omelettes.

I’m currently still working on my ability to see the future, but know that if other devs intend to change those things and break the achievement, I will fight tooth and nail for it to not be touched.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/southsun/Southsun-Omelette-Gourmand-Acheivement/first#post2064738

Ever since the historical achievement category, we can no longer obtain old LS achievements even if we can do the activities.

I guess Robert fighting tooth and nail for it didn’t work out. Would hate to see the dentist bill for that…

@Arlowix: about those dates…

The Lunatic Court existed when Mad King Thorn reigned Kryta – which would be the early 800s (and possibly late 700s) AE. They went to the Mad Realm with Ozzy upon death and was unheard from for roughly 250 years – until 1079-ish AE. When they were last heard before GW2 is unknown but roughly 250 years again.

The sylvari race was created in 1302 AE indeed, but the Secondborn didn’t come about for 6 or 7 years later, and it was still some time after that in which the Nightmare Court was formed. Which would place it probably about 1310 AE.

But regarding similarities…

The Nightmare Court’s structure isn’t really akin to a typical noble court (which is what the Lunatic Court is). The NC is more akin to a knighthood than a nobility, even if they have a small handful of nobility rankings (Grand Dutchess); with the exception of Faolain’s retinue that are the highest ranking members (taking on equal titles of baron, count, countess, duke, and duchess), they’re all Knights at best (e.g., Knight of Embers). The ranking of the Nightmare Court is literally:

Courtier → Knight → Retinue → Grand Dutchess

The Lunatic Court is a nobility court, thus lack knights and courtiers, and the standard noble rankings are not equal either. While both have a theme of darkness and invoking fear, this is purely coincidental – fear is a tool to scare people by the Lunatic Court as is the fashion with being tyrannical and comedic during Halloween; and it is a tool to envoke bad memories which in turn spreads the Nightmare within the Dream of Dreams

@Drax: True and true.

@Mike:

• Wikis can be edited by the fanbase, so it shouldn’t be taken as a word of truth. Rather than looking at concept art, one should look at the in-game models, which one can easily see on GWW’s Forgotten article. This is what a Forgotten really looks like.
• Like Drax said, it could have merely been an interpretation of an artist who never saw any snake-like being, but only heard/read descriptions. Given that the krait serpent model shares the frame of Kuunavang and Saltspray Dragons, and neither the krait nor Kuunavang/Saltsprays were a twinkle in the developers’ mind’s eye, I wouldn’t put any weight on it in regards to Forgotten or concept art being tied to either.
• It’s a rather heavy fact that no one living had seen the Forgotten since Turai’s time (and those people all died) until our PCs go to the Crystal Desert. Prior to then, it’d be since they retreated to the Crystal Desert. The resemblance likely came from hearing descriptions or seeing depictions of them. I mean, someone who never seen an elephant or a mammoth in person will still say they resemble each other.
• The wiki article merely states that we don’t know if there is or isn’t a relation between krait and forgotten – as in, it never came up. It is unknown to us, the players simply because it never came up yet. You saying ArenaNet said it is unknown is like saying they’re giving an implication that there is a relationship. ArenaNet never touched the subject as far as I know.
• ArenaNet only retcons the historical records. They haven’t retconned something we’ve seen.
• As drax said, I forgot that they had magic to prevent corruption, but still it is not an innate ability like the sylvari. It is just their kind of magic. Means-of-prevention and mental-reversal is not the same as innate immunity. So they’re not that analogous to the sylvari, who are innately “immune” (but will die if corruption touches them).

Aaron Ansari.1604:

We don’t know that the witches are religious leaders, or even leaders, do we? They’re the most powerful krait in the vicinity, but I don’t recall any examples of other krait following them. Even their sacrifices don’t seem religious- they’re usually said to be to control sharks or the like.

Edit: 50 gold is a bit beyond my means, but I’ll put up 35.

A few things:

1) http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Krait_Altar and http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadows_in_the_Water_%E2%80%93_The_Krait clearly state the sacrificing is religious.
2) At least one of these witches – the Blood Witch – does this sacrificing; another, within Caledon, I believe is said to be infiltrating the hylek village in order to capture the hylek for sacrificing.

zwierz.9012:

Gotta agree, it’s very likely they construct an obelisk in there, but I think there is more to it.

I doubt it’s an obelisk – those things are ancient, single blocks of smooth stone (not wood), and extremely religious. I would think they’d view it as blasphemous to try and recreate something that marks the rise of their prophets into the other world that they’re building an army within.

So the betting pool:

Those who think Scarlet’s involved:
Thalador: 50g per capita
Myself: 50g per capita
therapite: 20g per capita

total being put down: 120g per capita

Those who think Scarlet is not involved:
Narcemus: 20g per capita
Aaron: 35g per capita
zwierzL 50g per capita
Draxynnic: 45g per capita
Eluviete: 50g per capita
Maethor: 20g per capita

Total being put down: 220g per capita

The funny thing is that the group betting for Scarlet’s return will be loosing more individually if wrong. :P I can handle losing 300g (though I’ll have to buy gems to get the money, heh.)

Headless.3718:

I don’t see any difference between GW1 and 2. GW1 = I want something expensive -> uwsc 24/7. GW2 = I want something expensive -> champ farm 24/7

The difference is that ArenaNet ignored the speed clearing unless they got out of hand. Whereas in GW2, they’re catering to it. Their content is focused on the concept of farming and time gating – be it champions or achievements or dailies.

GW1 might have had its farms and its grind, but except for early level Nightfall done just so that there could be little low level content as possible without high leveling quest rewards, ArenaNet didn’t cater to this. They just let it existed.

And I don’t see why the argument of “it’s what keeps people playing so they’ll bring more of it” should hold any water with Guild Wars 2. There’s no subscription. As long as enough people play – even if it’s just coming back for a few days for the new content – then it should be enough.

But eh, Anet will be Anet. They’re just not the same Anet they once were it seems.

@Mike: A few things:

• Nothing really says that was concept art of the Forgotten really – all we know is that it is titled “Serpent”. But even if it was, I mean, this is a devourer – one thing Prophecies had was that very early concept art didn’t really look like the in-game model.
• I would hardly say the naga resemble Forgotten – keep in mind that the manual transcripts are written from in-universe perspectives and thus are fallible. Those “Tyrian visitors” likely never actually saw a Forgotten, and as such were going off of descriptions of them or the whole “they’re snakemen” idea. They don’t resemble each other at all in actuality.
• “Anet says the relationship with forgotten and krait is unknown but nether are related to the naga.” I don’t recall this said. Can we get a source? I mean, Forgotten have 4 arms, krait (except one form in EotN) have 2. And I don’t recall it ever being said the krait are unrelated to the naga.
• The jotun have no records of ever being off of continental Tyria. They don’t include mentions of djinn or karka surviving the last Elder Dragon rising, but those two sentient races certainly did – presumably in Elona.
• Forgotten are not immune to dragon corruption, neither physically nor mentally. At least as far as we know. They just deviced/discovered a spell which gave minions free will again. Reversal (kind of sort of) is not the same as immunity.

One thing you forgot which Mystic brings up is that krait are aquatic. Forgotten are not (otherwise they wouldn’t be able to survive in a desert).

@Mystic Starfish: Actually, we don’t know why they were on the shores in Eye of the North. They were pushed ashore 50 years ago, not 250 years ago.

@Sindex: What if, being sneaky and sly and overly-impossibly-smart that she is, she’s not trying to change or degrade their views but are complimenting them?

She could have found something of desire for the krait, like she did with the dredge and Flame Legion. Something related to their prophets perhaps. I mean, despite never seeing them, we’ve seen obelisk concept art that puts them on the shoreline… so there’s a possibility.

@Aaron: Technically speaking, we’ve killed a good number of their religious leaders (three repeatable krait witch events, and slap on the Head Slaver Nymfassa – not to mention how many krait got risen-fied recently, and the loss of their Blue Orb)… how high up they go we don’t know. And there’s the fact that the krait did have a major suffering, mind you 50-ish years ago. So they’re not on top of the food chain per se.

As for the village – yes, it has been destroyed for some time. By the krait. It was a fishing dock and there was once an Old Man NPC there who just sat in one of the buildings and would occasionally see his mother/grandmother’s ghost. If you talked to him he’d say that he left to join the Seraph iirc, and came back to retire but it was wiped out. I wonder if the event where you escort the fisher who was out on the water during the attack is still available…

Edit: I’d like to join in on that bet. I’m siding with Thalador on this. I suspect Scarlet because it’s Living Story stuff. And the preview reminds me of the Queen’s Jubilee’s preview (but more to it).

That’s actually not proven fact. It’s just one sylvari’s emotional feeling. IIRC, she says it feels like she’s being separated from the Dream. We don’t know that she actually is.

1. Ancient races. How many species comprise the Giganticus Lupicus (since it was said in an interview that the GW1 skeletons are indeed, even now, G-Lupe bones)? How many species survived the last ED rise that the jotun didn’t know about like the djinn and karka (krait, kodan, charr, and tengu all seem to be candidates)? What’s the truth behind the Forgotten’s historical origins (Nightfall and GW2 seems clashing and Nightfall’s info cannot be entirely wrong given the Forgotten’s presence and lines of themselves in the Realm of Torment) and what was their species’ original name?
2. The Six Gods. What’re the other realms? What are their origins as a group? As individuals? Where did they go? Have they known of the Elder Dragons’ rising? What happened to Dhuum and Menzies?
3. Crystal Desert culture and history. Who are the Seekers? Sorcerer Lord Kree? Lord Sybitha? What’s the history of Hall of Ascension and why is it there? Why did the desert have Kralkatorrik’s blood within it before Glint collected it? Was it once branded area (given there are blue crystals akin to Glint’s lair in some parts of the desert)?

It’s hard to keep it to three… Hence the broad categories.

Sylvari don’t have a state of shared consciousness. The Dream is more akin to an alternative reality than a shared consciousness. It is a location that has phantasmal copies of what those tied to it see and hear, little different than the Mists honestly. Technically speaking, the Elder Dragons don’t have a state of shared consciousness either – shared consciousness is a case of a two-way link of both the senses and thoughts, but with the sylvari we only have visions and hearings being transferred while with the Elder Dragons we have knowledge.

What a sylvari knows only gets transferred to the Dream of Dreams in a sight-seeing sense. Their thoughts, their emotions, do not get transferred. With Elder Dragons, with exception of specialized minions (e.g., Eyes and Mouths of Zhaitan), it is only their knowledge – their thoughts. The two are very different when you get past the first layer.

And technically the main antagonist in the Dream is not an Elder Dragon but a vision of an Elder Dragon, specifically Zhaitan if the Pale Tree and Caithe are correct.

Who said anything must be hosting the Dream of Dreams? No one hosts Earth, Tyria, or the Mists after all.

I’m not seeing a connection between the asura gates – teleportation devices – and either the Dream of Dreams or the Elder Dragons’ mental link to their minions. It should be noted however that the magic which seeps out of Elder Dragons when they hibernate appears to be little different than any other magic in the world – the corruptive aspect of the Elder Dragons’ magic seems to be a conscious effort. This mainly coming from an interview with Angel McCoy in which she states that the Elder Dragons balance magic – when awake they consume, when sleeping they expel the whole world’s magic. Ergo, all magic is Elder Dragon magic unless we’re missing something.

Erichermit.6018:

jheryn.8390:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Probably tried to overthrow his old man.

The joko theory works too.

Or he worked with Ascalon’s royalty. Or Orrian. Thorn could have reigned during the second guild war.

Or maybe he was a ‘monster’ because he was nice to people and tried to help them. LOL. That would really shame Thorn.

Though in one of his dialogues, he admits to torturing and killing his favorite step-mom. So I doubt he was kind.

His response implies a traumatic experience. It seems to me that was accidental or he regretted it so much he blocked it out and blamed his father for it.

Plus, it wasn’t torture, per se. He just nailed her hands to a drake during an “innocent” game of Pin the Tail on the Drake.

Yeah, the Crown Pavilion was indeed larger – about the size of half of DR if not more – than the outside appearance.

Depending on how you read his response, actually, it could be either “all fractals are of the past” or “all fractals except Uncategorized are of the past.” There was some discussion on the interpretation of his words with nitpickery which is rather important when it comes to ArenaNet since they don’t enjoy speaking in definitives.

Last year we saw that the Lunatic Court was in a civil war – this was focused in the three meta events in Queensdale, Kessex, and Gendarran. Sadly, no one seems to have documented the dialogue (not surprising given how confusing the Kessex and Gendarran event format and dialogue was) but from what my memory serves, the rebels were led by Baron Wycker, whom we fought in Queensdale. During the fight with him he mentioned a prince that should be crowned.

The Lunatic Court split – rebels led by Baron Wycker – in order to crown little Eddie and replace papa Ozzy. Now that Eddie is free, they follow him.

These rebels are likely why Eddie knew of the Mad Realm so fast too.

About the pillar… I’m not seeing that Mad King’s face thing.

zamalek.2154:

Konig, one interesting thing you mentioned is the known fact that “dragons can’t corrupt the Sylvari through death.” From only what we have been told (excluding theories) is this the exact idea, or is it more along the lines of “dragons can’t corrupt the Sylvari – full stop?”

The wording is important, the one allows for a loophole the other does not. I really don’t personally know because I haven’t found the will-power to run through a Sylvari personal storyline (I just can’t handle them, it’s painful).

I really like you write-up Konig. Good thought-provoking stuff.

What I said/meant is that when hit with corruption, a sylvari dies – rather than becoming transformed, they die.

This is immunity to corruption, but they don’t survive it.

It should be noted that it isn’t simply just a failsafe – Elder Dragons are capable of corrupting corpses (Zhaitan and Jormag at least have done such) as well as the physical landscape (all four seen have done this).

This information doesn’t come from the game though – it came from an interview a long while back now, during what was called “sylvari week.” Not everything has survived since then on the internet…

I took it differently, more of “I think that’s what it was, but I’m not 100% sure” rather than a poking joke.

I hope you’re right though…

GW1 did their holiday storylines right.

They always returned, and they could be done even after the new storylines.

I’ve seen nothing that would contradict/paradoxicalize last year’s storyline scavenger hunt or the metas. Yet we don’t get them. Why?

For the same reason F/U of TA got removed instead of a boss fix, I suppose.

Tequatl Rising didn’t get a short story.

Why should this?

Only Kiel, Moto, and Scarlet get short stories. Everyone else is too cool for them.

Maybe I was mixing the two. But she does mention that her Wyld Hunt was completed at that point in time irregardless of your race.

Are they? I don’t recall such (but I didn’t spend much time in Metrica, TBH, except for the Thaumanova).

Great and Gorgeous Mesmer Collective? Really?

Are you F[/b]anatically Undermining your lore with Croaked Killing Indigionous Ninnies, you Gotta be kidding me ArenaNet? (beat that censorship)

That name gives me the mental image of a bunch of Marie Antoinettes with the change of using illusions to give them ridiculous outfits that they deem beautiful and stylish (instead of having actual ridiculous outfits and hairstyles) while being totally distant with the world itself. That group HAS to be filled with the most narcessistic self-loving ninnies the world has laid eyes on.

Even Gwen would facepalm at the ridiculousness at the name! And she never facepalms! She just blows charr up.

The Luminaries Plant doesn’t look close to the Uncategorized Fractal, nor is it floating like the Uncategorized Fractal is hinted to have once been.

• You have to talk with her in the final instance of Victory or Death before entering Fort Trinity. She mentions how thankful she is for helping her complete her and Trahearne’s Wyld Hunt. And if you’re a sylvari, she says (paraphrased) “perhaps we should make you an honorary Firstborn, having aided two of us complete our Wyld Hunt” (they each have 2 dialogues there – one for their own race, I’ve only seen sylvari and charr, and one for the other races).
• The tablet is just a tablet… I don’t see why folks are so intent to make it some magical minion-to-ED-connection severing device…
• See following posts. Was a phone typo of Kudu’s Monster from CoE story. But you think that the Inquest managed to do something that only the Forgotten could do, and furthermore something which was so groundbreaking and only discovered after Zhaitan’s defeat, but Zojja – who stole the Inquest’s research on the Elder Dragons from CoE, kept this to herself but gave the Pact the means to harm Zhaitan? Yeah, I don’t buy it. It just makes no sense. I’m not even sure what you’re talking about with the death part… And the connection between sylvari and Pale Tree is much different than minions to their Elder Dragon. The sylvari’s connection is not direct but instead via the Dream of Dreams – something the Pale Tree doesn’t control. And we know that the DoD is different from minion to ED connection because it is a place non-sylvari can access – see A Light in the Darkness and the White Stag. The Dream of Dreams is a place, capable of even seeing the future. I’m just not seeing a similarity when you delve deep into the nature of it. The sylvari and minion similarities are only skin deep. Oh, and the sylvari lack the sole psychological attribute that all ED minions hold – fanatical devotion to their dragon. Not even the Nightmare Court have this.
• that’s kind of my theory. Mordremoth is “hacking” into the Dream of Dreams in the form of the Nightmare. But NOTHING points to either the Dream or the sylvari or the Pale Tree being linked, directly, to Mordremoth. There are far too many differences when you get past the surface (which few do because, I guess, they don’t want their theory beaten by their own research).

It’s not a norn…

It’s a Warden (gw1 wardens not the silly wanna be sylvari police)!

Kidding…

He’s a psychopath. He’s insane, but I would say he’s also evil.

EdwinLi.1284:

He is just Mad. He still has enough morals to follow the rules of his return but not enough to be crazy and kill everyone he knew.

He’s not obeying rules because he wants to. He wants to break free and return and reap revenge. He swore he would even. But the seals on him prevent him despite his powerful magic. And the weakening of the barrier is only enough to make him pull temporary magic which he just uses for jokes (he loves jokes, especially fatal ones).

Hey folks…

Whoever said Thorn had one son?

He just had one living son when he was dead.

Side note: @Invictus: I believe we only know he killed 2 of his wives. His first and fifth. The eighth was supposedly killed by the villagers. The other 5 we’re unsure of how they died.

Despite the biography investigation, we don’t really know that much about him. I mean, how old was he when Thorn died? Among all those years, we know of about 13 events, give or take, from the investigation.

I mean, we don’t know how Thorn got death-defying powerful magic. We don’t know the names of 6 of the wives, nor if he had children with 7 of them (I doubt he did with the first but the other six? He could have).

Probably tried to overthrow his old man.

The joko theory works too.

Or he worked with Ascalon’s royalty. Or Orrian. Thorn could have reigned during the second guild war.

Yes. kitten ation to phone autocorrect.

Forgot to post this earlier but…

I think it is said most of the Renegades come from Blood Legion – not 100% sure on this though so take it with a grain of salt. I do know there are Renegades who wear Blood armor and act as them in Fields of Ruin though.

So one can argue that the civil war is happening. It’s just Renegades vs. High Legions rather than Blood vs. Blood.

• Actually, Caithe does feel a burden of relief… But mention she intends to go after all Elder Dragons. It’s possible that Zhaitan isn’t the full Wyld Hunt, or she got a new one with Zhaitan’s death (it is known sylvari can get new Wyld Hunts after their previous US completed).
• Krait fled the Unending Ocean 50 years prior to gw2, not during/before gw1. See http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Mostly_Harmless_Quaggan
• Except that’s just not how dragon corruption works. The mental fanaticism present in all minions would not break so easily.
• Actually, as pointed out multiple times, dragon minions are not immune to other dragon’s corruption – see Crucible of Eternity, primarily Kudu, Judy’s Monster, and Subject Alpha – beings corrupted by multiple dragon energies (one, Judy’s Monster, was originally a risen based on model). Sylvari are not so much “immune” though – when touched by corruption, they simply die. And stay dead.
• I’m not entirely sure how you mean this… But I don’t think the Dream of Dreams is sentient. It seems more like a computer server and database more than some sentient entity.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

@BuddhaKeks It was a question in the latest GuildMag interview. The interviewees really went out of their way to avoid answering the question, but in the process it came up that “Maybe there is a place that had that Elonian Ascalonian crossover area.” Mind you, none of them actually said that that’s what Aquatic Ruins is, or gave any concrete explanation of what Aquatic Ruins is, so take that with a grain of salt.

Sounds more like they thought “oh those nerds and their stupid questions…” and they said “yeah yeah it’s like… uhhh… a crossover. Yeah that’s what it is!” :P

hence why I said “implied” – a loose implication but there.

It’s also implied to be ancient history.

About the statues – the faces hold Elonian esque features. And about the CD statues… Matching statues are found very very rarely in Ascalon – in both gw1 and gw2. The scenery also match Istan, while the ruins are used for Ascalonian ruins.