Guild Wars 2

@Mystic: I think he’s referring to the Arah Mursaat exp path, in which Belka said (I have to paraphrase since it’s not on the wiki) that the Inquest would take the knowledge of the mursaat and leave the world like they did, returning once the Elder Dragons returned to sleep and wiped everyone out.

This was post-Kudu and Alpha, and in the Inquest base in Arah, the risen were fully subjugated (titled “Dominated” even).

So I’d say it’s very clear the Inquest think the Elder Dragons will still wipe us out. Despite Zhaitan having clearly been killed.

As to the question Aaron asks. What do they know we don’t? I don’t know, but what we don’t know… I suspect has ties to Tequatl’s powerboost – since we’re promised it holds story tied to the Living World.

Honestly though, I’m not sure the Flame Legion think the ED will wipe us out. The exact words:

“You could never understand because you and your people are destined to die in our fires. Your time is coming. You should prepare yourselves. "

“Nothing. Never mind. Go fight your dragons. If you don’t, they’ll annihilate you. "

(Then he doubts the ED are a threat to him). This tells me that he believes we may beat them – but only if we fight them. However, despite this, “our time is coming.” Given the Molten Alliances’ ties to Scarlet, he could be referring to her grand schemes to change the fate of the world, and his doubting of the ED as a threat could stem from Scarlet’s own superiority complex and belief that she knows the Eternal Alchemy and believes the only thing that might pose a threat to her is the Elder Dragons (something she’ll soon learn she’s very very wrong about, I hope…).

But with the Inquest’s view… that poses a different question. And their knowledge may have stemmed from their research on the Risen they’ve learned to control fully. Which as said, I believe ties into Tequatl’s power boost.

Obsidian.1328:

The new lore is ok, not great. Too radical a departure from its roots imo, but that’s another topic.

I never said it was “great” either. Really, the only bad thing is Scarlet turning Guild Wars into Tech Wars. Aside from a few isolated peculiarities like the Stone Summit being related to ED magics every other sentence in GW2.

Obsidian.1328:

-snip rest-

That’s storytelling not story or characters.

The story is the idea of (I’m butchering it here) five races, each with their own hatreds or likings of the others (sylvari v asura; human v charr; charr v human; norn v human). But these are rarely picked up on, and everyone’s buddy go friendly. The idea of the Elder Dragons is rather good – even if not too entirely original – but poorly shown in the game (Sea of Sorrows does a far superior job of personalizing the Risen IMO, which only makes the game seem worse). The inconsistency of game to novel (e.g., Risen in both EoD and SoS are still mobile even after chopping them down… in game you have a dialogue at Fort Trinity saying “any way you can kill the living, will kill the undead”).

Basically, story = the concept of plot; storytelling = how the plot’s portrayed

On the characters, if you delve into their dossier then they’re rather interesting – even Trahearne. But ArenaNet does a rather bad job at showing them off – the storytelling revolving them.

And Robert King did not help with Destiny’s Edge either.

CHIPS.6018:

The story sucks because nothing big ever happens. Nothing big ever changes. When we killed Zhaitan, did the world change? Nope. I can already guess that when we defeat Scarlet, nothing will change.

Until the story writers grow some “guts” and do crazy things like burn down the whole Hoelbrak forever, or change Logan into a villain, the story will continue to suck.

I would chock this up to the storytelling as well.

The game was introduced as static – even if they claimed dynamic events, not really. There was a clear progression. Then they added the so-called “Living World” which is nothing more than a linear progressional story, untied to the personal story (the main plot at least). They put themselves in an unnecessary spot between a rock and a hard place where they cannot acknowledge changing things that would drastically alter new players’ ability to do the personal story (which I am not opposed to per se, but them refusing to say “this happens post-Personal story” is really kittening annoying).

But this is their means of storytelling – which indeed sucks. Not the story themselves – which thanks to their means of storytelling, people don’t really see the full scope of.

Side note: You do have to take into question new players to the game series. I mean, think of it… Take your suggestion of burning Hoelbrak down, this would have to be shown in the open world to. That would utterly destroy the first thirty levels for all norn players. They effectively cannot make drastic moves without cutting all new players out of content.

Then again… they’ve been doing exactly that with their so-called “Living World.”

Stooperdale.3560:

GW2 seems to have a philosophy of showing you the current world through the game events and all the old lore is hidden away in conversations and books. I don’t think that’s so bad. All the stuff with Zaitan raising Orr and corrupting the worship of the human gods is shown in game. Any history of Orr is stuck is elsewhere. Fine.

With Scarlet and the living story we may again just be looking at current events but without any access to a back story through conversations and books. Hopefully the series of current events will form a decent history over time but at the moment I agree that it feels empty.

Even lots of the current events are hidden in interviews and videos of Scott and Angel doing summaries of Living Story chapters, where we find out things only through those. Like the device Scarlet was in to see the Eternal Alchemy merely being a sensory deprivation device. Well over half of Scarlet’s persona is only viewable via some internet ArenaNet never acknowledged.

The issue is that their lore isn’t hidden away in just dialogues and books. A very small amount overall is such, in fact. Even their current story plots are hidden away in the bowels of the internet, and there’s lore accessible in only certain personal story steps (which is bad in GW2’s case because there are so many variances that to re-access you gotta follow those same steps more or less).

If they do start the living story from scratch, it’d probably be containing two situations:

1. It’d only be in regards to the story content.
2. It’d either 1) have to start with the first Halloween or b) have to be spaced in such a way so that Halloween/Wintersday can become a “break” and Dragon Bash happen where it would be – meaning F&F could be shorter… or other updates longer.

Kind of an interesting concept but as Aaron said, it’s not really for this here lore forum. It’s okay, we forgive you.

I wouldn’t really call the Consortium “bumbling” – the situation, as explained out of game to us is that the Consortium leaders have never gone on the field – they see Southsun Cove as an exotic location… not a deadly place full of karka, because they’ve never been there, and they’re scratching their heads going “how can crabs be so troublesome to our profits?” and tell their underlings “get us money from there!”

So they’re more of a “disconnected corporate type” than bumbling (or ruthless).

Unprovable and unsupported theory is unprovable and unsupported theory. :P

I don’t really get how I made that mistake when you didn’t even post in the thread. o.O

We likely will. But I doubt we’ll ever fight them personally.

CHIPS.6018:

Sorry Konig but I doubt you can justify the Flame Legion’s action with their religion, and the Dredge’s continued trust in the Inquest and sudden trust in a total stranger (Scarlet).

…………………

Where did I say this? I didn’t.

Flame Legion work for Scarlet because they need technology, she provides it.

Dredge work for Scarlet because they need magic, and Scarlet provided it in the form of Flame Legion.

Scarlet says this in Twilight Assault:

“Have I mentioned how much I love unusual pairings? Because I do, and as such, I present Sparki and Slick!”

And that’s exactly what the Molten Alliance is. It should also be noted that during Flame and Frost they didn’t necessarily work with Scarlet. Other than her uniting the two, nothing really says that they continued working for her during the coarse of Flame and Frost.

The question, however, is “why do they still work with her?” The question comes from:

1. The fact they were destroyed except for a few pockets.
2. The above showed the alliance didn’t really work.

Thing is, they only appear in the invasions. Now, given how the numbers of corpses would pretty much equate the population of an entire nation and more over time, the numbers has to be viewed as rather… mechanical and not lorical. Their numbers there are probably small overall.

The answer is probably in this:

You could never understand because you and your people are destined to die in our fires. Your time is coming. You should prepare yourselves.
→What are you talking about?
Nothing. Never mind. Go fight your dragons. If you don’t, they’ll annihilate you.
→They’ll annihilate you too.
I doubt it. We’ll be here long after the dragons have swallowed you and yours.

CHIPS.6018:

Nope. The dredge now continue to ally themselves with the Inquest and, furthermore, this new girl call Scarlet.

Er… nope.

They allied themselves with the Flame Legion, and recently Scarlet. However, we have nothing to say that the whole dredge are allied with them.

Same goes for the Flame Legion. And that’s something you seem to be unclear about.

CHIPS.6018:

The whole reason for the civil war was to overthrow Shukov, because he decided to ally with the Inquest. But somehow the new government decides to continue this alliance?

Not quite. The civil war was because the Moletariate was enslaving their own race.

CHIPS.6018:

And keeping in the mind that Dredge rarely trust anyone, even older races, why in the world would they suddenly trust a total stranger in Scarlet?

TO quote War Minister Shukov:

_With the aid of the Inquest, as their first-chosen of allies, we shall conquer the norn and charr, humble the sylvari, and put the ancient humans in their place. _

Asura and sylvari seem to be the race they’re most relating to. And Shukov holds a further implication when tied with what’s said about the potential age of the Molten Alliance – maybe they were already working with Scarlet then… but when the dredge/Inquest alliance failed, Scarlet paired them with Flame Legion.

TL;DR
You seem to make three drastic assumptions you hold no way to prove or even support:

• The whole of the groups are allied to Scarlet.
• The MA was formed out of fear of Scarlet.
• They dropped their former beliefs in allying with Scarlet (neither Flame nor dredge ever held issues with sylvari).

Forgot to respond to CHIPS last night…

CHIPS.6018:

One of the things Scarlet said was “My minions works for me now because they are afraid of me.”

Afraid of her? Who are we kidding?

Wrong.

Scarlet claims the Aetherblades work for her because they don’t want to die. Specifically saying (to the best of my memory as it’s not on the wiki sadly): “Have you met my Aetherblades? They work for me, you know, because they enjoy living.”

And if you read the latest short story, you’ll know that this is somewhat true – they are doing their best to stay on her good side. Though I have a feeling that she wasn’t telling the entire truth there – keep in mind that Guild Wars 2 makes extremely heavy usage of Subjective Truths – that means that what’s said is not the actual situation, but either one’s view of the situation… or a lie.

If you do Twilight Arbor’s new path (I haven’t, but wiki’s helpful <3) you may hear this:

Aetherblade Thug: “Following Scarlet’s lead is dangerous, but it’s also profitable. Not to mention fun.”
Aetherblade Grenadier: “Clear the vegetation, build the ships, kill the intruders… There better be some serious coin at the end of this.”
Aetherblade Foreman Spur: “We’re already way behind schedule. If you lot want to get back to plundering full-time, pick up the pace.”

Something tells me that they don’t work for her just because they want to live. They work for her despite the danger because its profitable and fun (what do you expect of pirates?).

Nonetheless, nothing says the Molten Alliance work for her because they’re afraid of her. No, instead, what we get is that they work for her because the Flame Legion needs technology, and the dredge need magic, and Scarlet can provide that.

CHIPS.6018:

To Konig,

Now let’s talk about Scarlet.

I agree that she has superiority complex. Its written all over her face and voice. But unless she is totally crazy, she should know very well that the future is unpredictable. Look at her plans against us. All of them so far ended in failures. Unless all these failures were part of her plan somehow (which I doubt, since there is little benefit to losing that Airship factory in TA), she already tasted failures. So whatever plan she have, even if she wins, may not lead to the future that she planned.

Thing is: she is totally crazy.

And for “all her plans” there was only two that failed (for her at least), and one was just an act of a whim. She hasn’t so much “already tasted failures” but “just now tasted failure for the first time in her life.” We’ve yet to see her reaction to such beyond promises of pain in the future. We’ll likely see this next month, unless she intends to ransack a third celebration.

MauricioCezar.2673:

I think they removed due to TA don’t have “More tokens per day” than other dungeons.

Arah.

Illi.3647:

Big Tower.5423:

The picture is named nexthero

every picture is called “NextHero”, with some letters there too, those letters being name of the release

And the letters were “EN”

EN…

Everlasting Narcissism (Scarlet’s superiority complex unfolds!)

Just wait, within the next 3 months – give or take – the playerbase will begin dropping…

GL ArenaNet, getting them back.

I truly hope that they don’t make GW2 flop with this “Living World” story.

Excuse my cynicism. But the LS is proving to be a larger and larger disappointment, only providing grind to a game where we were promised no grind.

Raziel.4216:

Jenny needs money to survive, this is not optional
Players dont need to play, it’s optional
False analogy.

Players are conditioned into enjoying rewards. (A good explanation of what I mean)
ArenaNet added rewards to achievement points.
Living Story retains players not by story or content, but by all the many new achievement points (it is the easiest way to get more AP).

Of course it was intentional and literal. Just unnecessary.

CHIPS.6018:

Cantha didn’t invade before because they were recovering from their own little civil war/internal struggle.

A struggle that would have long ended at least by Zhaitan’s time of rising, if not earlier?

Not convinced.

CHIPS.6018:

-snip totally unrelated Japan WWII ref-

…That’s not the only reason (as “purely for” means). But that’s off topic.

CHIPS.6018:

Another reason to fight: Living Space. Room for growth. I don’t need to explain where that came from.

In terms of Cantha, I think the Afflicted took care of that. All they’d need to do is – as Narcemus said – clear out the bad structures and rebuild in better standings.

CHIPS.6018:

Cantha would be dealing with the ocean dragon before Zhaitan. Zhaitan is in Kryta. The ocean dragon could already dead, kill by Cantha (given how much the general player base hates underwater combat, this might very well be the case). Kryta is next on the plate.

….

Zhaitan is in Orr, south of Kryta. Yes, the deep sea dragon may be a closer threat. We have no way of telling if 1) it is near Cantha in the Unending Ocean or 2) if its influenced has reached the ocean surface.

Nonetheless, if they were trying to invade Kryta (rather than the closer Elona), again, they would first have to land at Orr (as it is closer to Cantha than Kryta) or the Tarnished Coast and would far more than likely attack non-humans, given that they are xenophobic.

If they intend to invade, they would have done so already. They’ve had a century after the war stopped fighting, if not far more than.

I do hope they don’t kill off the DSD… it would be an excellent reason to expand upon the underwater races (krait, quaggan, largos) and fix underwater combat… though given ArenaNet’s actions with TA F/U, apparently removing content is easier than an easy fix…

CHIPS.6018:

Cantha might very well offers Kryta peace in the beginning, on the condition that they break their alliance with all other races (Charr, Norn, Asura, sylvari, etc) and instead join Cantha to conquer all of them. “Humans are the superior race, and our superiority over other races must be restored, just like ancient times” they say. Cantha killing the ocean dragon with only humans further strengthened this belief. Kryta and the players, being good guys, will naturally refuse. And war is the outcome.

Sure, that could work.

But nonetheless, if Cantha has been trying to invade since they began needing resources and land, they would have a while ago.

CHIPS.6018:

You have to remember that Cantha’s friendship, from the past, only extends to Kryta and Ascalon. Did any Charr or Norn went to Cantha to help them out back in the days? Nope. It was Ascalonians, Krytans and Elonians. They got no relationship with any other non-human races. All they have is racism and hate toward them.

Orr and Elona too. And they made deals with asura (even if indirectly). See P.O.X.

But those races weren’t around as allies back then. But irrelevant given their xenophobia. And this racism and hate really goes to non-Canthans, just extends greater towards non-humans. The other races not aiding in Cantha’s troubled times (especially when the other nations and races were either not part of known civilizations or having their own troubles) is 100% irrelevant to why Cantha is xenophobic.

Getefix.9150:

it may be that the current emperor is a good guy, but the ministry of purity have gotten too strong and made kaineng a ‘utopia’ where people are kept ignorant of the rest of the world/dragons – e.g. the earth kingdom in the avatar: last airbender series, thus, we’d have to help the emperor deal with the ministry of purity

That’s called a dystopia, btw.

And one of my preferred outcomes. Outright war being waged by Cantha is just… not very creative.

Erukk.1408:

So the game developers don’t see much point is making the storyline too deep.

This day. I cry.

Welcome to the Fold.

Lore is good.
Story is good.
Characters are good.
Story_telling_ is terribad. Especially Living Story. Somewhat for personal story. They’re not telling us nearly close to even half of the lore without making us dig not even into the internet. And this isn’t really a new issue, but it wasn’t nearly as prevalent before.

Guess it may be our own fault, since we never complained about the interviews and pushed to get answers out of devs in them ando n forum/wiki posts… (Though we only did such because the story didn’t tell us enough, we just never mentioned it really).

You say that as if a dues ex machina is a good thing…

It isn’t. Unless done wittingly.

@Stephen: Centaurs actually have only shown to have a reverence for the earth itself – not the fauna or flora. Just soil. Well, Velderunner centaurs also venerate their Ancestor Trees as you mention, but no other plants known beyond them. But as Narcemus said, these are only Elonian centaurs.

The Ancestor Trees are not a representatives of their ancestors, btw, but rather a sacred tree who’s fruits carry the wisdom of past chieftains. Effectively, they’re magically trees – something in of itself is not rare (see: treants, Urgoz, the Terebirth (sp?) in Brisban, etc.) – that have fruits carrying knowledge of those who died near them. Tyria’s version of the biblical Tree of Knowledge, arguably.

According to arcane scholars, the fruit of these trees was seen as divine, possibly as a way to pass down spiritual wisdom from one generation to the next.

From Nightfall manual.

The creation of the tablet was irrelevant to the tree. He considered the tree to be a miracle, to have grown so large so fast upon the graves of humans, and he used that to symbolize his second sanctuary with Ronan.

As to why he carved the tablet, I point to the oldest source of GW2 lore: The Movement of the World

At last, old and gray, Ventari carved his life’s lessons upon a marble tablet, which he placed at the base of the pale tree so that future travelers might read it and, perhaps, learn the ways of peace and harmony. Then, many years after his human companion had passed on, Ventari laid down beside the tree Ronan had planted, and died.

So he did indeed create it for the odd wonderer .

Also: Ventari is only in the Dream of Dreams through the Pale Tree’s memories. He cannot be consulted. The Pale Tree can only look upon her memories of his teachings.

To centaurs and sylvari co-existing … the centaurs do call sylvari “plant spirits” in one of the sylvari storyline during A Tangle of Weeds.

On the side comment of the Six “so-called” Gods and them messing up the ecosystem… technically speaking, it was only Abaddon – neither humans nor the full six – who did such. Melandru and Balthazar (supposedly Balthazar if we take the implication that his burning Orr when he arrived was cleansing corruption) actually fixed the ecosystem.

@FlamingFoxx: Ventari did not know about the sylvari at all. He placed the tablet there for future passers by to find. See quote above.

@Larkir: Yeah, we’ve been told that Jormag shattered the Shiverpeaks when he woke, making that inland sea.

The land to the far north cracked and shattered with Jormag’s waking, allowing the icy northern ocean to flood through and create new, inland seas on which the kodan were cast adrift.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Wisdom_and_Power_of_the_Kodan

@Larkir and Narcemus: And btw, that sea actually HAS to reach the arctic seas, since the kodan Sanctuaries fled through there from the arctic seas.

@Narcemus: I don’t think there’s a single map of Tyria which shows the northern edge of the sea. The current map does have it narrowed down greatly, but it doesn’t exactly end and could easily open wider again (creating a strait). Best source for as far north as we can go is the alpha map which goes a little higher north – but the map’s changed a bit since then.

Comparing the maps, when the sea reaches its northern inlet to the “river” is quite a bit north of Sifhalla even (north by northeast exactly).

Our characters ignore all lingering threats after the big bad is dead.

Prophecies? We let the charr continue ransaking Ascalon. We ignored the leftover undead. We didn’t bother picking up the Scepter of Orrf or safekeeping (to be fair though, the volcano was erupting…). We basically wiped out the Forgotten, but didn’t ensure the mursaat and White Mantle were gone for good.

We did, to our credit, clear out the titans and the Stone Summit (our actions leading to Deldrimor forcing them into exile in the Far Shiverpeaks), but that was only because we were told to do so (like with Galrath and everything else!).

In Factions, we let the Kurzicks and Luxons return to war, and didn’t bother the help of cleaning up the Afflicted or Shiro’ken, and who cares about those centuries-old pirates and street gangs anyways?

In Nightfall, aside from Joko, we didn’t really bother help cleaning up the demons left in the world (we just helped Kormir clean up Abaddon’s mess again). Nor did we really help out with Istani’s broken navy, Kourna’s shattered government. After Abaddon’s death, we just went and watched a play about our exploits.

In Eye of the North, we once more let the charr continue their war (even ifwe did take out some shamans and aided in the beginning of a civil war), and let the dwarves do their thing hunting the destroyers into oblivion – imagine what would have happened if we godslayers went and hunted them down too? They’d have been wiped out and the dwarves return to the surface until Primordus rose (possibly). Oh, and we once more ignored the White Mantle conflict.

Go Team Us!

Most Deadly Villain: GW1 heroes by negligence .

Cantha’s unurbanized landscapes have been explained as forested and/or rolling hills – the same as pre-Kaineng City expantion. I believe.

That is possible. See Southsun Cove. I believe the “in universe” explanation is that it is ‘ourmmap’ and thus the ‘unfogged area’ is just a guesstimation bases on others’ proclamations on what is there.

This explanation would explain Southsun’s sudden emergence (given in lore it was there but unknown), Labyrinthine Cliffs’ minor alteration, why the Dragonbrand doesn’t go as far north as it should, and even why the fogged rivers and such don’t match the boundaries of unfogged.

I don’t feel tired of the Living Story.

I feel tired of Guild Wars 2 on a whole.

The Living Story did that to me. Especially the 4 months of grinding-based achievements that started with Dragon Bash and ended with Tequatl.

What people do not like even more than content removal…

is unnecessary content removal. Or even worse, content removed unnecessarily due to being imbalanced.

But that’s how ArenaNet does things now it seems. Started with, I think, the nerf to Smiter’s Boon (PvP) skill in GW1. Except that wasn’t “removed” per se.

I would hardly call the Priest of Balthazar or Priest of Me.landru as looking like Jotun. If you’re talking about their height – that’s just a mechanical thing to see the enemies in large crowds with a lot of skill animations.

Also, those priests are all Orrians, from the age of the Cataclysm. They’re not ancient or from the time of the gods – the Grenth priest is explicitly stated to be the last .priest of the temple alive before the Cataclysm.

I’m pretty sure everyone would be fine with monthly over bi-weekly. After all, that’s still fairly fast updates compared to most MMOs that only update content with expansions.

Though I don’t think combining them would do much. Sure you can look at it as “the first update gets 2 weeks more” but on the other hand – and in the long term (e.g., after the first four months) – it just becomes “the second gets two weeks less.” Rather, it’d be better, IMO, to push that second one to the following month – like how Flame and Frost was (so think F&F pacing but more content to do).

Dear ArenaNet, please do not “kill Scarlet off and be done with it.”

I know that may sound weird coming from me. However, rather than “killing and be done with” her, I’d much rather she’s made into a non-Mary Sue, non-heavily annoying character and then killed off.

Why do I say this? For as terrible as Scarlet is presented, she is perhaps the only villain other than Caudecus and Faolain (and the still-living Elder Dragons) with any form of continual showing. Gaheron may, since we already see him as a soul trying to return (nothing says there’s only one Eternal Flame or they may have no means of remaking it). And not just that but she has some semblance of a chance of becoming a decent villain that isn’t “I feel like killing everything for the sake of xenophobia/sexism/just-the-hell-of-it/taking over the world mwuahahaha!” Scarlet, though on the surface is the third, if you dig deep you find she’s different than all four.

Scarlet’s problem is, as I said, her presentation. As is a situation of the entire living story after Flame and Frost. ArenaNet decided – for some obscure-to-us reason – that the players prefer digging through the main sites, the delves of fan-sites, to get the most important aspects of the lore, rather than putting them – in any form possible – in the game.

The problem with all the other main villains – sans Kudu and Caudecus – is that they appear only once and are killed. The earliest level personal story villains hold more impact than Gaheron, Shukov, Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan, and even Zhaitan himself (though the last is rather expected, though I was honestly hoping that there’d be a figure like the Mouth of Zhaitan or Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan that would appear throughout, coming and going, viewing us as “not worth the effort” until we proved ourselves).

Honestly though, I do pray they kill Scarlet off – maybe in January or February. Then the next “between the Elder Dragon” foes we have to be some returning figure – be it from dungeons or personal story (I would love for Shodd to come back, trying to take over the Lornar’s Pass steam creatures; or Caudecus, backed by the White Mantle and Lazarus; or even Gaheron, having another attempt with an Eternal Flame and succeeding despite our best efforts then becoming a true threat to the Iron Legion).

I would also love to see some kitten retroactive improvements to the personal story. ArenaNet seems to be taking to much focus on metrics – “see what the players like, and polish and increase just that.” They should be doing the opposite – see what players don’t like and improve those so that they do like it… instead, ArenaNet seems intent on ignoring (charr armors) or completely removing such things (F/U path of TA). sigh

Narcemus.1348:

Plus we can’t forget the large parts of the continent that have remained completely un-explored.

Where is this? Unfogged by us doesn’t mean unexplored by the people.

I doubt that it was literal when saying “blocked by ice” – after all, the water has to come from somewhere and it’s easier to say “blocked by ice” than to say “blocked by ice, frozen soil, and mountains.” And if it’s in the Shiverpeaks, where most water is frozen, to say it’s blocked on all sides by ice isn’t really wrong… it’d just be permafrost – ice-coated soil.

The comment of the Woodland Cascades does make sense, though. Nonetheless, it probably is referring to that. There’s quite a lot of oversights.

As to Drakkar Lake – that also holds strong possibility, as there’s a kodan I believe who says Jormag rose from Drakkar Lake – and we know that it was Drakkar, not Jormag, in that small lake. So if the whole water is called Drakkar Lake now, then it’d be accurate… rather than an oversight. Alternatively, Drakkar Spurs can be named after Drakkar or Drakkar Lake.

Malchor disagrees.

Some notes on seriousness (in order):

• Abaddon didn’t always have six eyes. It was originally just a mask with six eye slots, but when his body was destroyed and regrown in GW1, he regrew a body more nightmarish and with six eyes.
• Dhuum is only ever called the god of death. He holds no relation to darkness or ice. Furthermore, Grenth held ties to ice before his Ascension. This was not passed down. Also, he wouldn’t really be tied to “necromancers” since he forebade the main thing necromancers did – make undead.
• Melandru doesn’t wield a bow. That’s just avatar concept art.
• Calling Lyssa Mesmer but not relating professions to other gods (sans Dhuum) is… flawed, IMO. The gods are not really tied to professions, per se, but rather they are tied to specific kinds and philosophies of magic.
• Abaddon isn’t depicted as insectoid, really. That was just his regrown body.
• The Seers do not have an insectoid appearance either… there’s really nothing insect-like about them. They clearly don’t have an exoskeleton.
• Abaddon has shown no hatred of mursaat. Khilbron did, however, possibly. However, it should be noted that the conflict between mursaat and Abaddon’s forces come from the Flameseeker Prophecies – they foretold the genocide of the mursaat, the mursaat fought back, with or without realizing this meant confronting Abaddon as Glint foretold it would be the titans’ release to destroy the mursaat.
• Largos is the only possibility I see there, as I theorized as much given the statue of Dwayna at the temple of Dwayna in Orr was originally to be a Risen Largos model. I cannot see Malchor as believing a Forgotten or tengu to be a beautiful woman.
• Balthazar is not from Tyria (world or continent)… Jotun are. And older than the Six at that so unlike the largos cannot be argued to have come with humanity.
• As said, the “theory” that the ED and gods hold ties has been discussed to death. Cue dead horse beating gif. As also said, it has been utterly and fully debunks.
  • There is no Elder Dragon for Dwayna.
  • There is no Elder Dragon for Lyssa – no, Kralkatorrik does not count.
  • Water goes from Abaddon to Lyssa – it is not tied to Abaddon/Kormir’s godhood.
  • Ice is with Grenth only, not to Dhuum – it is not tied to Dhuum/Grenth’s godhood.
  • If Grenth is tied to Jormag, then Zhaitan has no god; vice versa applies.
  • There is no god for Kralkatorrik – he is crystal and elements, the former there is no god for, the latter is shared across the gods.
  • Lastly for the “general ties” between the two groups – The Six Gods’ ‘domains’ of power has been interchanged or altered between the games. Those which haven’t are what the norn call them by – War, Knowledge, Life, Death, Nature, and… Lyssa’s not clear. Unlike the Elder Dragons, the Six Gods’ ties to nature is superficial by all that we see. They’re not really an important aspect of the Six Gods.
• Technically, Lyssa taking over water from Abaddon happened after his death – post Nightfall. I cannot see that as being tied to the Forgo-Margo War. Also, her taking over water is outright disproving your ED-SG comparison you earlier made.
• As to the Six Gods being the ELder Dragons’ power sealed into mortals. Nope. Debunked. Dwayna, Melandru, and Balthazar are not native to the world. At all. They come from the same place humanity came from. After the Elder Dragons fell asleep, and they arrived as gods. The other three gods’ origins are still wrapped in mystery though.
  • This is also debunked by the fact that Zhaitan’s defeat does not result in his magic going chaotic. The Six Gods’ divinity and the Elder Dragons’ absorbed magic are fundamentally different. The former is outright stated to be indestructible.
• The Six Gods – with possible exception of Dwayna, Melandru, and Grenth – in regards to the current pantheon (and possibly Dhuum/Abaddon) are most likely humans. Formerly, that is. I’ve theorized that Dwayna and Melandru to be largos – for Dwayna, given the wings and blue skin, and Melandru being tied to Mellaggan, an underwater goddess of the quaggans (and lets not forget the Scions being important to Largos culture for unknown reasons, and Season of the Scion is tied to Melandru in continental Tyria).

Unless it deals with what’s been touched by the Living Story, it isn’t outdated.

That’s how the “Living World” works – only progresses when Scarlet touches it. Everything else is in a temporal block, stuck in time, endlessly repeating, like the Foefire ghosts reliving the last day of their life (except for Calhaan, who relives a day 8 years before his supposed death).

Actually, that may not be true, Narcemus. Hidden deep within the bowels of https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/ you may find an entry dated around May or June, shortly after the final release of Flame and Frost. In this entry, you will find a video. Within this video, you will see and hear Angel McCoy and Scott McGough explaining the plot and relevance of Flame and Frost. Within this explanation, one of the things said is this (paraphrased):

The Molten Alliance existed for a while, underground and unknown to the Orders. They were able to do so much damage so fast because of this – they’ve been building their forces, and did so without being noticed, and then unleashed their forces in large might. The Orders didn’t see this alliance brewing because they were too busy dealing with Zhaitan, Orr’s invasion, and other dragon-related threats which occupy almost all of their time.

So the Molten Alliance may or may not have been born even before GW2’s initial release storyline timeframe.

When it comes to the Living Story, levels matter not. For they will alter the “unknown” past, to affect the present.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/Caithe-s-Secret-The-murder-of-Snaff/first#content

CHIPS.6018:

Scarlet have the ability to go to other dimensions. But she cannot control the future. No one can. The future is by definition unpredictable. Just because she gave an input it doesn’t mean the world will change to how see likes it.

No one can control the future, true. But that isn’t her goal. Her goal is to change the fate of sylvarity. She isn’t bent on ruling. She isn’t bent on control. She’s bent on altering.

So what does this mean? That means she have to change the events and history of other worlds, and see how the history in those worlds unfolds first. Once “one of these alternative worlds” reaches an ending that she likes, she can then implement those changes to her “own world”.

No, she doesn’t. She doesn’t need to change history. And she isn’t trying to either.

I repeat. She must first make an alternative world reach the ending that she likes, before she can implement those change to her own world. Else, the future is unpredictable no matter what she does.

Scarlet has a superiority complex. She believes next to nothing can and should stand in her way to prevent what she’s doing. Furthermore, she believes she has seen the Eternal Alchemy – translatio: she thinks she knows how everything works and how it’ll work when she alters it in any way.

You say she’s doing trial and error. Scarlet doesn’t need trial and error. In her mind, she already knows exactly what to do, and she got that knowledge from her vision. In her head, she does things once, only needs to do them once, and it will work.

She will learn she is wrong though, but you get the idea, I dare hope.

Saying that no one knows about Headmaster Omadd is like saying no one knows Dumbledore in Harry Porter. Omadd is a headmaster, not some random mad scientist. If he exists, there is no way we would know nothing about him.

Nope. Omadd is a former headmaster. Also, players not knowing != NPCs not knowing. A proper comparison would be Rowling not telling us Dumbledore’s predecessor until it becomes relevant (do we even know who said person was? If not, the characters sans possibly Harry and some other kids likely did).

We don’t know who Jennah’s father was. Doesn’t mean that he didn’t exist.

Baelfire’s action shows he knows nothing about the Molten Alliance. He was trying to make himself into a god. Why bother? Scarlet is their all powerful god. And why resurrect him? He is weak when compared to Molten Alliance’s new weapons.

His actions? All we see him do personally is attempt to repel intruders to his home. And again, Scarlet is not their god. Unless you have solid evidential proof that the MA Flame Legion does consider her a god – if they do, then that’s another plothole in GW2’s story given how they were set up to be “we will make our own a god”.

And again – NPCs not telling us something does not mean that a) it doesn’t exist and/or b) they don’t know about it.

Old topic. The playerbase seems torn between the following views:

• More content, faster. PLayers, naturally, want more new things to do in less time. Sadly, players go through content than it can be produced. This is basically like grabbing ArenaNet by the shoulders and shout at them: “GIVE ME UNPOLISHED CONTENT NOW!” A bad mentality overall, even if understandable.
• Too much temp stuff in too short a time. The non-hardcore gamers don’t have time to do all the content – and before it gets mentioned (presuming I’m not ninja’d), this is content they want to do so don’t bother with the overused BS excuse of “you don’t do have to play all the content.” And on the flip side, hardcore gamers are starting to be burned out, and I’m seeing more and more folks mentioning leaving or being tempted to leave. ArenaNet’s starting to fix this… but they still fail in those limited time achievement categories.
• The content is too unpolished or lacking depth. A result of point 1, really. ArenaNet’s pumping out content so fast that they can’t – or won’t, it’s not very clear which – put proper depth and polish to the content. This results in content that feels… unsatisfying.

It’s a song sung many-a-times. ArenaNet’s starting to head into the right direction. Sadly, after Flame and Frost, they really took a huge step back. They need less temporary content – especially in regards to achievements and item skins – and more time to polish.

Let’s be honest with ourselves here. We don’t hate the 2 week content update schedule. We love it. What we don’t love, what we hate, is the quality of said content and, worse, we hate the amount of temporary content and arbitrary achievements that we feel are necessary to complete for the rewards (we, as players, have been conditioned into loving those rewards, and they give rewards for accumulating rewards, giving us more reason to go after them).

So people, stop saying “2 weeks is too short” – start saying “2 weeks is too short for temporary content.”

Cowrex.9564:

I can’t agree more with you OP. Scarlet really IS the best villain I’ve seen so far in GW2. I was amazed at her story I have a feeling she’ll be the one to bring the world down to it’s knees.

Plus I kinda liked how she is tied to the Flame and Frost arc

Proof there are some people who’re easily amused.

Scarlet doesn’t really have that unique or good of a story thus far. Mind you, I’m speaking without having done the new dungeon path yet.

bartrentenaar.8674:

Guild Wars 2 villain’s don’t even come close to the epicness of the villains in Guild Wars 1. Scarlet and all other villains are nothing compared to the Lich, Shiro, Varesh or (I don’t like this quite as much as the 3 I mentioned before this one) the Great Destroyer.

Or Abaddon.
Or Menzies (even though we never meet him).
Or Dhuum.
Or Lazarus.
Or Reiko.
Or Hablion.
Or even Galrath – and that guy doesn’t even say anything!

CHIPS.6018:

When a nation have a strong military, but lacks resources and poor economy, war is usually the outcome.

Who did Cantha have to attack a century ago? Fifty years ago?

Answer: No one.

Sure, they could wage war on Tyria now, but if they haven’t yet, why would they now? No reason. They could have waged war with Elona too, but if they didn’t 5 years ago when we last heard of Elona, why would they now?

Cantha was isolated, there is no one near them. They’ve already resorted to war, and conquered their entire continent. Afterwards, they isolated themselves. They kept trade open – probably for resources, imho – but they lost that 100 years ago (roughly). Since then, they’ve been non-existent. If they were interested in waging war, you can bet they would have done so against Zhaitan, if for no reason but to get to us and take out resources. But there are no Canthan risen, showing they had done no such thing. Last we heard of Elona, prior to Kralkatorrik’s rise, the only threat to Joko was an insurgency called the Order of Whispers and Zhaitan pushing southeast.

War is, historically speaking, the outcome – if you’re so deprived of resources needed to live, you’ll get desperate enough to risk your life to get them, since you’ll die without anyways. But that doesn’t seem to be the case here, otherwise we’d know it to be so.

CHIPS.6018:

If anyone remembers Winds of Change, you should know that the MoP troops were the best trained soldiers in the whole GW1 game. They are the only human faction with a mass amount of level 28 troops, making them almost on par with the demons of DoA. Furthermore it seems more of their members are fairly young, making this level of training and discipline all the more impressive. My necro felt like an outdated old woman by the time I faced them, and I only won because I got more battle experience.

You’re mixing mechanics and lore. Argument invalid.

Ministry of Purity is made stronger, mechanically, because they are 1) enemies and 2) end-game content (endest-game even – it is the last thing added to the game).

In the story, a lot of the Ministry of Purity were losing their members in all those off-screen battles, because they were inexperienced and not fully trained. People were caught up in the morale and just picked up a sword and went to fight. Though not highlighted outright, it was shown pretty well in the side dialogues shown post-quests.

CHIPS.6018:

TBH I highly doubt Cantha have no one in Kryta. I am sure they have a few spies lurking around. (Delaqua I am looking at you.) That’s what people do before a war; They spy on a nation to understand it.

I had long suspected that Cantha will invade Kryta. The players will defend Kryta, and eventually push back across the sea into Cantha. All the while dealing with the sea elder dragon.

We know that there were Canthans in Kryta prior to Zhaitan’s rise. But they were all cut off with said rise. Hao Luen, the grandfater of Captain Hao Luen, was one such Canthan.

Unless Cantha’s lack of resources is only recent, they have no need to invade Kryta. Furthermore, if they invade anyone… it will probably be a non-human nation. They are xenophobistic after all (historically at least).

Shiren.9532:

The story doesn’t actually care which candidate represents which fractal – Ellen isn’t an asura or Priory member trying to figure out some Thaumanova mystery and Evon isn’t interested in Abbadon. The story itself didn’t care about the candidate and their respective fractal, it was just a transparent poll pushed into the game with a bunch of unnecessary baggage (WP costs, reduced keys, black and white characterisations).

While you’re right that the election poll was little different than a poll on the website, you’re wrong on the candidate’s relation to their fractal.

Evon was hinted – though not in game, so this is a fail point to ArenaNet – to be interested in Abaddon for religious reasons.

Ellen Kiel stated that she was going to investigate the cause of the explosion, and in Aetherblade Retreat, she does say she hates Inquest – though she never met them previously.

So the characters do have some plot interests/relations to their respective fractal. It just wasn’t highlighted outright.

Meriem.3504:

Or maybe I am just the Mad Queen * female Mad King laugh *

Sorry, but “Mad Queen Meriem” doesn’t hold a candle to the infamous Mad Queen Malafide.

Draknar.5748:

I can tell you that most people did not find the clocktower easy. It is still by far the hardest of all of the JPs released to date.

If they release clocktower and it is the exact same as last year I will be pretty disappointed.

People think the new TA path is too hard, people thought SAB NORMAL mode W2 was hard, I think anything that is harder than holding W and pressing space 3 or 4 times will result in people QQing it is too hard.

I welcome the challenge personally so crank it up a notch. QQers will QQ no matter what difficulty.

People complain about difficulty, yet they do this for two reasons (from my view):

1. They are too used to all the games where the philosophy is “everybody wins.” They’re too used to getting rewards for little to no effort. Game designers have spoiled players for years, and its only now being reversed.
2. They – and ArenaNet too – mistake “punishing” for “difficult.” The Mad King’s Clocktower is difficult (at least, IMHO). Things like SAB Tribulation mode? That’s punishment. The difference is the amount of room players are given to adapt on the spot, the amount of ways they have to solve the problem, and how much time it takes to get back to the problem upon failing. Maybe to some the clocktower is punishment rather than difficulty, but overall it isn’t too much – I suppose it depends upon one’s ability to navigate one’s player through all those charr and norn.

I’d love more difficult content (Molten Facility, SAB normal mode, etc.). I’d hate more punishing content (Liadri, her light-based counter part, Aetherblade JP, Aetherblade Retreat, Tequatl, etc.). And I’d hate more grind (carving pumpkins, Tixx’s Workshop dungeon, dancing at effigies, kill x of y, find the dragon’s scales/teeth/crystals, etc.).

Getefix: I am well aware of the constant statements that Elder Dragon minions cannot reproduce.

I did not say that. In fact, I said it’s likely that what was considered Glint’s baby – even by name in Eye of the North – was likely a dragon-shaped minion Glint, as a dragon champion, created.

For the record though, there are several dragon minions capable of spawning more minions – they just don’t give birth to them. That’s the difference. In some cases it’s a creature that was pregnant upon corruption (most risen drakes and risen spiders and branded devourers). In other cases they’re dragon champions – all of which are capable to make minions. Side note: This includes the Destroyer Queen, which only really made portable destroyer incubators – we know from Edge of Destiny and Eye of the North that destroyers are made via pools of lava and are slowly formed in them; these “destroyer eggs” would merely be enclosed pools of lava that the destroyers are slowly formed out of rock within. The Destroyer Queen wasn’t a corrupted individual like the mentors give reason to suspect – 1) it’s just one possibility they mention, 2) Jeff Grubb said that Primordus creates mockeries, rather than outright corruption, though in an interview said that he could corrupt living beings; overall this means “can but doesn’t”, 3) the Destroyer Queen’s “eggs” hatch full grown Destroyer Crabs and Destroyer Trolls (possibly harpies, not 100% sure), not just Destroyer Crablings.

That’s how ArenaNet will wipe out charr from Ascalon, removing their playability.

Because playing charr isn’t popular. Just like TA’s F/U path (despite it being the best path with most unique mechanics compared to the other two; it was just the boss fight that was terrible – just like how with charr it’s only, mainly, the armor clipping which ArenaNet explicitly stated they won’t fix because the charr aren’t popular).

CHIPS.6018:

Scarlet can use mass amounts of summon portals at the same time to transport her troops. Many people overlooked this, but this is a very important clue. You know who else can? Elder Dragons, Dhuum and the like that’s it. You have to be that powerful of a mage to use summon portals in that quantity. Is Scarlet, a 15 years old Sylvari Engineer (not even a mage), in the same league as the Elder Dragons and Dhuum. Is this even possible? Who needs heroes like us when we have villains like this? If you ask me, Scarlet is much older than she appears.

1. Elder Dragons don’t make portals.
2. Dhuum “and the like” don’t technically either. In Dhuum, Menzies, and Abaddon’s cases the portals were made from the Shadow Nexus – a gateway complex of sorts within the Realm of Torment.
3. Scarlet’s portals don’t seem to be magic, but magitech. Not so different than asura portals, but without the gates.
4. Scarlet’s not in the same league as gods and Elder Dragons. Not even remotely close. Though she thinks she is.

CHIPS.6018:

Alternative universe is already part of our storyline. Steam creatures are 100% proven to be from an alternative universe. Scarlet use them as minions, which by definition means she is involved in an alternative universe.

False.

The Infinity Ball storyline only tells us of possible futures. This is fundamentally different than an alternate reality – as alternate realities are parallel in the timeline. It’s also different than an alternate future, as alternate futures require said future to remain in existence after it influenced its past. We have no way of knowing that the future which the Grand High Sovereign’s future remained to exist after he walked through that portal – his very walking through could have caused his future to never occur. On the flip side, it is possible that in his past, a futuristic Grand High Sovereign also walked through and was killed by him – thus making the timeline a loop for him, unchanging. Meaning there’s 1 future, and only 1 future – and again, no alternate future.

I think people are putting too much stock into Scarlet’s use of the steam creatures. They make up less than 1% of her army’s forces. Are they even seen in Twilight Arbor’s new path which appear to be her main base of operations?

CHIPS.6018:

If Scarlet was indeed from our world, there are thousands of plot holes that need to be filled for this story to make sense.

Indeed. That’s why it’s called “shoehorning.” That’s why Scarlet is such a pathetic excuse of a proper villain.

CHIPS.6018:

Scarlet is not out to change the world. She is out to change the rules.

Rules. What are the rules of the world? That’s the history. The pieces of events that make people behave in a certain way.

Scarlet is out to experiment with different set of rules, history and events, to see how things turn out. She is trying to find a set of history and events that will alter the Sylvari into what she want them to be.

What she’s out to change is the idea that’s imbedded into her mind, partially thanks to being what the Eternal Alchemy teaches, as “predetermination” – the belief that everyone has a purpose and must conform to that purpose no matter what.

She isn’t out to change the “rules” per se, and she’s definitely not out to change the history or events. She’s out to change the future, specifically in how everyone that isn’t her is able to alter it. She’s not out to change the past. Nor is a new past required for her goals.

CHIPS.6018:

Her short story never had an effect in our world in the first place, and that’s prove that she is from an alternative universe. Look around. I ask once again, who in the world was Headmaster Omadd? Has anyone ever heard of him? Have anyone seen this NPC?

Except that it did, we just didn’t know that those things happened.

That’s called shoehorning, not alternate dimensions.

CHIPS.6018:

Has any “Non-Molten Alliance” Flame Legion and Dredge mention anything about the Molten Alliance? Did they even know about it beforehand? How can Gaheron Baelfire not know about it? Why bother making Gaheron Baelfire into a god when Scarlet is already their god?

Actually, yes.

1. In all dredge/Flame Legion bases (or almost all), in the third Flame and Frost installment some interactive objects were added. Some were notes from the dredge, other from the Flame Legion. They were about the alliance between the two forces – what each side gave to the other and how they interacted – and their plans.
2. One of the Sorrow’s Embraces explorable paths, there’s an ambiguous line which, taken retrospectively, kind of hints to the Molten Alliance. The one where you face the Destroyer of Worlds. Dredge need flame magic – first they go to controlling destroyers, when that doesn’t work (specifically when those wnating to use destroyers are killed), at the end of the path we have “Now, you should go. What happens next does not concern you.” coming from someone who was earlier talking about how outside races aiding is the turning point for dredge society.

Gaheron likely didn’t know of the Molten Alliance as it likely began shortly after his death – it’s also possible he did know and never made mention; he could have been keeping Scarlet at negotiations or even his death being why Scarlet was even capable of convincing the Flame Legion. It’s possible he did know of the alliance and even helped start it. However, the Godforged, Gaherons elite units, do have a role in the alliance – that much is certain as they’re the ones who make the flame-embued dredge (Molten Protector, Molten Shaman) – as per one of the Dead Drops.

Scarlet is not their god. The Flame Legion intended to make one of their own a god. And Scarlet may lead them (or rather, she got them to unite and now they’re aiding her still for unknown reasons), but they don’t worship her.

I’m trying to picture charr riding on a mount.

I can’t unless said mount will be the charrmobiles (aka “tanks”) which would remove the model.

Maybe giant devourers? Still hard to picture given their physical structure, imo, without looking weird.

Jordo.5913:

Ellen Kiel wins the election, now what?

WE DON’T KNOW!

Why did Tequatl get stronger even though Zhaitan is dead?

WE DON’T KNOW!

What is Scarlet’s motive for going bat kitten crazy?

WE DON’T KNOW!

And ArenaNet’s response:

“We have a story. We’re going to tell you it. Someday.”

And someday never comes.

P.S.: You forgot:

• What will Evon do after losing the election?
• Why is Ash Legion interested in controlling Lion’s Arch economy?
• What’s with the tentacles and Sclerite stuff from the last Southsun content?
• What’re the Zephyrites up to doing with Glint’s corpse? (Addendum: What happened to Glint’s ‘children’)
• Did the Zephyrites even enter trade agreement with Lion’s Arch when Kiel won the election?
• Where did Canach get the Fervid Censer and what’s with the yellow pollen/fungus-like plants he spread?
• Why are the Seraph Honor Guard so terrible at their job, not acknowledging Scarlet or the fact that the Queen’s Jubilee ended (those poor guards, eternally waiting for their diplomat escorts…)?
• Will Logan ever put on some pants and get it on with Jennah?
• Just what the hell does it take to get into Rytlock’s warband?
• Will Braham and Eir ever make up?

And that’s ignoring the non-Living Story stuff!

@Meili: If you read the thread, or the Short Story: What Scarlet Saw, you’d know she came from the Pale Tree.

Never said Canach named it. Likely, it was Kiel and the Lionguard who took Southsun. I believe Canach’s Folly was where his team was set up on the western half of the island, though there’s nothing to say what Canach’s Folly was before Kiel showed up – if it existed prior. Point was that at Canach’s Folly is an item – which Aaron linked – that states Canach joined the expedition.

As for Noll… here’s my question: If Noll wasn’t directly related to the Consortium’s expedition, then why was he on the run from the Lionguard and the karka as well? I think Noll was the “official Consortium member” who was sent on that expedition team to ensure things were kept under control – he may be more administrative, but he’s a field administrator. And Canach was just a hired hand – as was the captain. So I doubt they’d be left in charge, rather than an official Consortium… official.

As for Canach deriving a formula or whatnot from the original plants – possible. The Fervid Censer does look a bit like a Passion Flower, which is heavily implied to be that unique flora that the expedition team found (given its only found there even mechanically – just like Azurite). And the Passion Flowers began blooming with Secret of Southsun. However, I cannot see them as being the same both untouched and with permanent effects on the wildlife.

The wiki’s written in such a way to ensure there’s no confusion, since its never actually stated that the Lornar’s Pass steam creatures are of shared origins as the asura Infinity Ball storyline’s steam creatures.

The situation is “the only known source of the steam creatures is explained in the Infinity Ball storyline – that being from the future version of the asura PC who had gone evil.”

The possibility of Scarlet being from another reality was brought up before some time ago – when the Steam creatures were first seen in Queen’s Jubilee.

But I believe the “What Scarlet Saw,” the interview between TowerTalk and Scott/Angel, and content since has rather debunked the theory. No, not fully, but the likeliness has dimmed to immense value.

In order for Scarlet to be of another reality:

1. The entire short story needs to be in that other reality.
2. There needs to be a Ceara of this reality.
3. We need to know alternate realities actually exist.
4. Scarlet needs to be a recent addition to this world. Very recent.

Doing this – if done right – could be a saving grace for the pathetic shove-in that What Scarlet Saw was, but I just don’t see it and there are better ways to save face with Scarlet.

In B4 Scarlet Briar = Sylvari Player Character from the same possible future as the Grand High Sovereign of the asura Infinity Ball storyline. And Mai Trin = Human player character. New Molten Alliance leader = charr player character. And some norn that’ll show up = norn player character. All united in the other reality, turned evil post killing half the ED, and conquered their world and now bent on conquering ours.

That may prove somewhat interesting… but if my female sylvari named Kierra is meant to become Ceara… no thank you.

zamalek.2154:

We do know that both Caithe and Scarlet come from the Pale Tree (given that Caithe is a firstborn and PT was able to interact with Scarlet during her encounter with the Eternal Alchemy). Maybe the other tree freed them from the whole Dream/Nightmare situation.

Fact correction: Per a TowerTalk interview, Scarlet “did not see what she thought she saw” with the Eternal Alchemy. That machine that Omadd put her in was a sensory deprivation device.

This means that Scarlet merely lost all sight, hearing, smell, taste, and touch. This would – theoretically, as I do not think people actually did experiments to prove this – lead people to effective feel nothing. They would have only their thoughts. They wouldn’t even be sure if they were still alive since they wouldn’t even be able to feel their own heartbeat or know if they’re breathing. This may be why Omadd’s previous test subjects all died – they may have simply forgot to keep breathing.

This also means that what Scarlet saw was effectively a hallucination. Meaning what she saw… wasn’t real. Meaning if you go ask the Pale Tree about that conversation, she’d go “what conversation with Ceara?”

This said, though, Scarlet Briar aka Ceara is indeed from the Pale Tree.

KOPPER.1458:

The dungeon tells us that whatever her secret is. It’s “nasty” or something to the effect of what Caithe did was “nasty”

Malyck doesn’t seem to fit with “nasty” at least not to me.

So what could have Caithe done that even Scarlet would consider nasty? Whatever it is I am sure it’s probably not as exciting as we are all hoping.

I haven’t done the dungeon yet. Can’t for a while still. But if it’s Scarlet calling it nasty, then that’s not saying much.

Scarlet has a superiority complex (per Scott McGough during said mentioned TowerTalk interview). And her believing she saw Eternal Alchemy only made it worse. Anything and anyone who tried wronging her is instantly wrong and the universe needs to be fixed to punish that person – hence why she says what she did at the end of Scarlet’s Playhouse.

If this secret simply hindered Scarlet in any way at all, then of course she’d call it nasty. Because it hindered or harmed Scarlet. And that just should never have happened, because she’s so great. In her mind, the only thing that can and may be allowed to be harmful or a hindrance to her… is the Elder Dragons. Maybe the Six Gods. Maybe.

Stooperdale.3560:

Caithe has done things involving nightmare than even Faolin doesn’t know.

Hmmm? What has Caithe done involving the Nightmare? That Faolain doesn’t know about?

Stooperdale.3560:

The story I’d like is for Caithe to know her wyld hunt is not finished even after the death of Zaitan. He was not the dragon she was looking for but she pretended that it was. I doubt that will happen though.

Elaborate please.

And do take note: A sylvari can receive a new Wyld Hunt after completing their previous. They aren’t limited to a single Wyld Hunt in their entire life.