Probably because they’re “pretty basic and common dead-creatures.”
Plus they don’t really fit anything except standard undead – and we don’t actually face any standard undead. Closest we get are necromancer minions. Risen, despite being constantly called undead, are not traditional undead.
Let me rephrase:
Practical.
(Side note: yes, there are logical beliefs).
I doubt that such would not only ever occur, but could even work.
There’d be so many lore breaking submissions, let alone just outright terrible ideas, that the game would be ruined if any of those are picked… and sadly, despite ArenaNet’s “no retcon,” they very well may end up doing just that…
It’s rather amazing how many things they’ve said about their story that they seem to be redacting now. With the excuse of “Guild Wars 2 is not human-centric, like Guild Wars 1 was.”
its probably symbolic a bit like the ritualist head shade
The ritualist blindfold wasn’t symbolic.
Some ritualists were actually blind – apparently done so that they can see spiritual power lines or some such.
Well if all priests and priestesses of kormir would gouge their eyes out… that would be actually pretty cool and give that God thing a new level of seriousness.
It would be, but I don’t see why they would. Some fanatical followers of Kormir who want to mirror their goddess as much as possible probably would, but it’s not particularly logical to do so.
The Giganticus lupicus bones found in the Crystal Desert are on par to Elder Dragon size, possibly.
The one fought in Arah is just one of many species considered to be part of the Giganticus Lupicus – use that term in similar relation to “Dinosaur” I suppose; a catch-all for a group of extinct/ancient species. The one in Arah had to be small because of a design decision, so that it would be managable to fight – and it is most definitely larger than a giant.
Careful of your wording Getefix. That’s just one group’s opinions on the Elder Dragons, nothing really says they’re accurate.
In fact, the intelligence shown in Edge of Destiny, and that shown of the minions in Sea of Sorrows and the game, imply that the Zephyrites are wrong. The Zephyrites seem to say that the Elder Dragons are just mindless forces of nature, but we know full well Kralkatorrik is not mindless via Edge of Destiny, and the risen show to us that Zhaitan isn’t likely to be either.
No thank you.
That would just absolutely destroy the concept behind the Elder Dragons and the personality Kralkatorrik is implied to have through the Branded and Edge of Destiny. It’d be a worse insult to the lore than Scarlet’s existence seemingly redacting the build-up of GW2 or the GW2 “no longer human-centric”ness destroying the lore behind Abaddon and the bloodstones (just because it’s not human-centric doesn’t mean the humans have to be wrong about everything, ya know…).
The Giganticus Lupicus were a group of very large races. The smallest known one being the risen Giganticus Lupicus found in Arah – the rest have their bones spread across continental Tyria and Elona, with the most common bones being found in the Crystal Desert and Desolation. (See these ).
These creatures were by no known means really humanoid. Though at least one of three identifiable distinct races that make up the Giganticus Lupicus are bipedal, nothing says the others are. And the other two seen specimen of the Giganticus Lupicus are even possibly on par to Elder Dragon size. Of the two skulls seen, one looks rather serpentine while the other looks more mammoth/elephant-like.
There’s dialogue in one of the Straits of Devastation mini-dungeons that imply the Leviathans share origins (in age) with the Giganticus Lupicus (though it’s specifically said to be related to the Elder Dragons’ history, the ED are highly suspected of wiping the G-Lupe out, implying that the Leviathans could be considered among the Giganticus Lupicus though a few still remain).
Giants on the other hand are different. In GW1, while they were horned or tusked, they appeared more like ogres in GW2. The giants in GW2 are effectively very tall cyclopian humans. Whether there’s any ties between giants and the G-Lupe is unknown, though I suspect they hold ties to ogres and jotun (those two being heavily hinted to being cousin races, and both are ancient races to boot).
You were likely confused by the “non-scholarly” title for the Giganticus Lupicus – the Great Giants, or True Giants. The nickname is meant to tell us “they made what we know today as ‘giants’ to be fairly small” – which is entirely true.
The direction of this thread has gone in a… uh… coughs interesting direction.
The canyon’s called dangerous due to the ettins living there.
Uh… it is never said they disappear in the middle of the night. You need to revisit that place and talk to the NPCs again.
When I was young, we didn’t have elementals running around the city, doing everyone’s chores for them. Folks did their work with their own two hands.
->You don’t like it here?
I didn’t say that. That castle sure is pretty nice. I’d like to go there someday. Some of the other village®s go to live there. I keep hoping for an invitation, myself.
->Do you ever get to see the villagers who moved there?
No, but that’s not surprising. A place as elegant as that… I’m sure they’re just wrapped up in their new lives. And it is very isolated up there. (sigh) I’ll admit, I’m jealous.
Edit: For record:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Felna
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
Never stated.
15 charrs 1 post
You can hallucinate travel as well as other people speaking. So it’s not as absolute as you seem to claim. The words from the Pale Tree talking to her is likely part of that hallucination.
Not only would I say “she’s human, she’s dead” but we already have a (semi) crazy necromancer from GW1 returning – Livia.
Furthermore… isn’t Eve’s grave in-game, or am I misremembering?
This song is one of many sung in the nursery at Mellaggan’s Grotto in Timberline Falls (some other LA ambient dialogue can be found elsewhere to).
It’s a quaggan nursery rhyme, IMO.
Define “Lore masters.”
Jeff and Ree are the Lore Continuity writers. Their job is just to make sure there’s minimal contradictions in the writing.
The writing team – which includes the self-called “lore master” Angel McCoy – has expanded past them for quite some time. Either since Ree and Jeff were hired with Nightfall’s development or during Eye of the North. Known writers off the top of my head other than those three include Bobby Stein (who I think was here since Prophecies), Scott McGough, Peter Fries, and John Ryan.
I think it’s only Bobby, Angel, and Scott who are in charged of the overarching plot storylines nowadays. At least in regards to the Living Story.
From what we’re told, Jeff and Ree are working on some unknown project.
@TheKidHentry: Wizard’s Tower, wiki has as much info as can be given in terms of facts. This said, structure doesn’t resemble known mursaat architecture and it is likely a lot younger than any remaining seer architecture given they were put to near extinction 11,000 years prior to the game.
@Fafnir: I don’t know why I keep seeing this, but they are NOT kidnapped. They are invited. And it’s not the kids either. And the bit on souls is 100% speculation.
@Larkir: WP’s summary is actually very flawed near the end, especially given how there’s no indication that Verata’s still involved in any way shape or form. Quite honestly, the concept of Isgarren inviting people to live a life of luxery but instead kill them for xyz reasons, is far more White Mantle-ish than Verata-ish, regardless of the use of killing them, given how the White Mantle did exactly just that with the Chosen in GW1, and unlike the Flame Legion they seem to be slow learners.
@Narcemus: It’s never proven Galrath was a White Mantle member. There’s dialogue about him that implies he was Lionguard in the past, but why he wears armor matching Hablion’s is left unknown.
Question: Do you guys think Ascended gear has anything to do with ascension/infusion? (Infusion being the effect on your armor in GW1 that made you resist Spectral Agony)
I have heard it’s been stated by Linsey Murdock that the names of the system in GW2 is only a developer nod to the GW1 mechanics and hold no lore connections. As I said earlier in this thread.
I do not have the source on me though.
This has been brought up and discussed to death a dozen times already.
There are a lot of flaws wrong with WP’s theory video. And the main one is this:
Dragon minions CAN be corrupted by other dragons’ energies. Sylvari cannot.
On the notion of evil Elder Dragons in general… If you want to get technical, nothing says the Elder Dragons are evil. They’re just amoral. What they do to us is little different than humanity domesticating livestock. And the Elder Dragons are not allies to each other either.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
The Unseen was an ancient and powerful demon, actually. Mursaat are the Unseen Ones.
/nitpickery
True, and considering that there’s a titan who’s known to be over 100 years old (captured by the Order of Whispers 100 years prior to GW1).
Though on the demonic fortune teller… how do we know it/she was still living by Nightfall? We only saw it in the Realm of Torment, and Shiro supposedly killed the fortune teller himself when still a living normal human.
Ed, from this interview it is revealed that the “dream” she saw was merely a hallucination of sorts – the device she entered was a sensory deprivation device which removed her senses, and doing that can lead to folks hallucinating things. She didn’t actually witness what she thought she witnessed.
This said, I generally agree with the general feel of this thread from what I’ve seen. Living Story is going in the wrong direction, and it’s hurting. I’ve been a steady player since June 2006 and I love the game and put a lot of work and effort into the community since I joined it, and even I’m getting tempted to call it quits on this game. Can’t imagine how it is for folks who aren’t as dedicated to the Guild Wars series feel.
Gabby, if sylvari’s appearance changing is something relatively common, then of course people who are used to working with sylvari – such as Kiel – wouldn’t comment on it. She wouldn’t find it out of the ordinary. She knew it was Canach because it was his lair and his actions of fighting back was basically screaming “I’m Canach!”
The explanation of sylvari changing appearance due to psychological stress is something I heard was brought up in the very initial release in some dialogues. I don’t recall seeing it myself though so this is just a second-hand thing. So it isn’t ArenaNet “coming up with an excuse later” but using something they had to merit the change of his appearance.
The question for me is…
Should it get living story content? WvW has next to no lore or story to it to begin with, and it’s too heavily dependent on zerg v zerg playstyles. Anyone who’s only interested in the plot won’t be able to survive well because the zerg will remain interested in doing what it does best: zerging.
While I’d enjoy an increase to the lore and story, I don’t feel like WvW – or PvP – has the environment or set up for being a good storytelling device.
I like the idea that Ascended should NOT get sigil or sigil-like effects. It gives players a choice: do they want higher stats and/or AR, or do they want unique stats.
I like the idea, the execution has flaws, but I believe they are getting better at it.
Their speed of getting better at it is as fast as a speeding snail, from what I see.
They took a huge step back right after Flame and Frost, and only started picking themselves up again with Queen’s Jubilee, but have a long way to go before they get back to how much better Flame and Frost was compared to everything else we’ve been getting since.
I was sure this was going to be a post calling for our characters to actually speak during the Living Story, or at the very least ask the developers to give us more Living Story exposition through dialogue rather than messages or website short stories, and I was ready to throw my support behind it.
Came to be what I expected.
I throw my support to both.
I hadn’t done story mode dungeons on my charr in ages and the PC rarely talks in explorable dungeons, and the personal story’s been done for almost a year now. I heard him talk for the first time and actually realized I forgot what my own most-used character sounded like in cinematics.
Cases where Magic concentrated in a natural way
[…]
- The Mists spawns creatures: I’m not sure if this is caused by magic, but i guess the mists are full of magic. But the mists are different from a world like Tyria, so this one could be something else, but the process seems similar. We know demons are created by the mists and we also know that those demons are not very kind guys. At least during GW1 they only appeared as enemys, except for Razah (who is also a creature of the mists). So concentrated amount of magic —> (dangerous) creature gets created
Technically, demons are spawned by the Mists themselves. Specifically within corrupted shards of existence that have been tainted by “maligant forces” – this is what the Dreadspawn Maw is according to Raukus and an Adept of Whispers – the only other demon-spawning place we know of is the aptly named Spawning Pools which is simply described as a place where nightmares from dreams are born.
Since we don’t know how the Mists work, we cannot really call the protomatter that the Mists is made up of as being the same as magic. The Mists merely creates via copying, and connects all time and space, as well as acting as where the souls of the dead go. It’s a 3-in-1 place, but nothing has really been said to be a case of “the Mists is magic!” as far as I know, let alone magical concentrations.
Maybe thats the way elder Dragons were created (I believe this idea came up in a few other topics). The Magic level was so high, that it formed very big creatures/elementals. And then they acted on instinct to use up and store magic. Or the Elder Dragons were the only ones that were able to survive while the other creatures that were created that way died. Thats how Nature works, right? Things get created randomly and what survives workes. So their corruption could be just a very expensive spell to turn all into something similar to them to use up more magic. The rest of their personality could have formed over time or got influenced by whatever element/stuff that was around when they were formed. Of course, one problem with this could be the star connection the Jotun observed. But we don’t know how that works and it could also be false/incomplete information.
That’s pretty much been my working theory – that the Elder Dragons are eldritch abominations that just happen to look draconian which were formed by magical concentrations. Edge of Destiny’s narration saying that Kralkatorrik is “more magical than physical” implies this to me, especially since they seem to need magic to survive, regardless of its form.
And about the star thing – “It shows that the awakening of the dragons is a natural and cyclical thing. The stars only indicate the passing ages. They do not determine events here. " – that’s part of Varra Skylark’s dialogue at the end of the dungeon path, if you talk to her after the final cinematic.
What if the Elder Dragons are actually related to imps, like imps absorbed tons of magic over millenia and eventualy became the Elder Dragons? Shadow imps=Zaithan, Ice imps=Jormag, Fire imps=Primordus. No clues as to a connection for Kralkatorik, Bubbles, and Mordremoth. Also I’m not saying that imps are dragon minions, but that they can become dragons.
The imp theory is another strong contender in my opinion, especially given the imps’ new more draconian appearance in GW2, and the fact they grow larger and deadlier as they absorb more magic.
Further evidence for the theory would be the items needed to spawn the event Defeat the mysterious fire creature in Mount Maelstrom. Though somewhat indirectly.
1) Right now, we could say that the dragons are as old as the world, created to maintain magical balance, and created by the same force that created Tyrian magic.
This makes little logical sense.
Why would world-destroying and altering beings be made simultaneous with the world? Granted it depends on how the world was built, but it seems unlikely. Especially since the Elder Dragons are not the only beings that consume magic. See: demons (of which imps are included) and possibly elementals (they’re at least formed from magical concentrations).
2) It’s possible that killing a sleeping Elder Dragon will permanently lower magic levels, depending on how long it had been since it last ate. It’s equally as likely that energy will be released from the corpse, either as an explosion or as a slow leak equal to the rate of leakage while the dragon was hibernating. Conservation of energy suggests to me that the energy will be released, and the overall difference between magic levels at the beginning of hibernation and the end will decrease, stabilizing the magic supply.
Zhaitan was killed, no explosion. Glint’s corpse is said to have a lot of magic in it, no explosion either but rather slowly leaked. Zhaitan’s case is likely similar to Glint’s.
Still, it’d likely be much slower than hibernation, as it’d be little different than a very magical artifact at that point – like the Bloodstone.
3) Magic levels getting too high -> possibly poisons the world. Too low -> everything ‘starves’ for lack of magic. Like how water is good for us, but too much can kill.
Unlikely. We’ve seen what magical concentration can do:
It makes elementals. Which is effectively “makes the elements of the world sentient, if not sapient.”
The only case of high magic being deadly would be when it’s used in a very destructive manner – e.g., Cataclysm, Jade Wind, Searing. But these are all artificial damages of high magical concentration.
As for low magic – that’s the state the world is in whenever the Elder Dragons go into hibernation. Given how that’s also the state the world was in when the jotun, dwarves, seers, forgotten, djinn, and karka (with others as possibilities) survived the last Elder Dragon rise, and no mention of damage to them other than loss of magical use in their society, it seems unlikely that low magic in the world results in anything but “people cannot use magic.”
4) The ulterior motives? If not present at the moment, they’ll be retconned in. The Risen, at least, seem intelligent. If they were created by an unintelligent being, wouldn’t they be dumb as rocks? World domination is apparently a popular pastime amongst villains, but I can’t imagine why a couple of giant dragons would care about taking over the world…
As I said, there are motives hinted at in the game already. Risen being the most known case thanks to the focus on them, but Icebrood, Branded, and yes even Destroyers are not exempt. Not all motives are mentioned merely by the words, but by their actions as well.
Zhaitan seems to seek immortality – and ruling the world.
Jormag seems to seek to rule those who desire strength (and give them strength to rule them).
Kralkatorrik seems to want to corrupt anything it can, and destroy the rest – effectively making itself the only being (as the Branded are effectively just extensions of itself due to the mental ties).
Primordus’ minions have only seen killing, with the stated intention of the Great Destroyer to be wiping out the surface world to make way for Primordus (which seems to be a case of Primordus going “I don’t need creatures of flesh and blood to corrupt”).
Zhaitan wanting to take over the world – per the words of Captain Whiting in Sea of Sorrows – along with these other odd actions indicate that the Elder Dragons are more than just mere magic managers.
-more in next post-
@Infamous Darkness: I’m not really sure why Razah would turn evil, nor why he would feel abandoned because the GW1 heroes died off. Heck, for all we know he’s chilling with the ghosts of the GW1 PCs in the Hall of Heroes.
To your questions:
@Narcemus:
Uh, the River of Souls does NOT connect to the Underworld. I don’t know why people keep thinking this, as nothing in the game implies this. The gw.dat even states that the River of Souls leads to an abyss – where they’re stored for food by demons – though this is most likely prior to the damming). Where it leads naturally is unknown.
Yes, but I worry that they’d just wreck him further. He’s got potential though.
This.
A Dev said that his appearance changed because he was going through hell, being hunt by mercenaries, being sleep deprived, starving, etc. I don’t believe it, I think that it was because “bad guys can’t look pretty”, since Kiel didn’t say anything about the change in game.
It’s actually loosely upheld that sylvari appearances can change based on their psychological stability. Any life-changing events can end up changing their appearance.
Scarlet went through the same as Canach, for example.
If you think of Hearts as a big arrow saying events happen here, you’ll start feeling differently about them.
Doesn’t change how completing them remains utterly the same as not completing them. And not all hearts have events happening there – plus, Orr does perfectly fine in directing events without hearts.
Good suggestion! The zone that gave me the most wonder when I entered it was Straits of Devastation. It did so as it was the first zone where exploration was almost purely driven by the feelings of, well, exploration and not map completion.
I had not considered this. Kudos.
I support getting rid of renown hearts, but would probably go further and remove skill point challenges as well. They are obstacles to having more long lasting changes to the zones as (at least those that involve NPCs) as the outposts/caves/etc that house the challenges can never change hands or be destoryed as the NPCs offering those challenges would have to go with them.
I’m iffy on this. While I get where you’re coming from there actually are some skill challenge NPCs which move due to their place being taken, or refuse to offer the challenge because of a nearby event. However, that’s just one of three kinds of skill challenges – communing skill challenges are already an intrigal part of the Quartz Crystals mechanic, and are rather good in of themselves. The item-generated horde event gives some good lore – most being more than standard dynamic events – as well. Plus, they don’t feel as static as hearts because you can easily move an object or NPC, and there’d be no need to move a communing skill challenge unless the land itself changes. The only change I’d make is how the icon is always shown on the map, even if you’ve never been to the zone.
Did you know that some events actually help you completing those heart quests?
Yes, and like others, you don’t seem to get my point…
I think they are really good. I mean, it’s a change of pace – “do your stuff here the way you want and get rewarded”. Do I want to kill monsters now, or just pick up some medicine for those warriors? Or maybe just res the dead, clear some rocks outta the way, light torches?
This is what I understood from what you wrote: “I dislike chocolate, so stop making it”. Try making it better. You already started it badly with such title. Give an idea to improve the system.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I WAS SAYING
Why is it everyone’s believing that. You all are focusing on a single – just one of three – points I raised, and bashing down the idea just because of that.
What is more important is how static the hearts are in the game which ArenaNet wants to be ever changing. They are counter-intuitive to ArenaNet’s stated goals from day one.
“I don’t like killing monsters, or getting items, or lighting torches. I think that if I could do suggestion, it’d make the game more enjoyable”
See? You don’t have to remove what the others like, but you are making it even better for everyone
I do not want to remove the activities. If you read my post in full, you’d know this well. I want the activities of the hearts kept but given to us in a different form so that they’re more fluid with the rest of the game – so that they are no longer static, ever present, even after completion. So that the game feels more like a “living, breathing world” that ArenaNet wants to create.
You revive some people, light some torches. Just to, less than a couple minutes later, die (out) again. Even if you’ve gone and completed the heart, the problem remains, even though you get a letter saying “Good job! The problem is no longer a problem/not as big of a problem anymore! Thank you!”
What’s the point of doing stuff if it has no affect on the world? That’s the main issue with events – they reset too quickly. Create more events, expand the reset timer for the events, have events block each other, and get rid of the static never-changing aspects of the game. Do this little by little and ArenaNet will have their desired “living, breathing world.” Hearts are preventing this currently, and they’ll only prove to be an obstacle in the future.
My own personal views on them are irrelevant. Being able to complete them with events is irrelevant because it’s not the act of completing that’s the issue, but the fact of nothing changing despite completing.
Agony from Fractals is not the same as Spectral Agony. It’s already been stated by Linsey Murdock/Hargrove (whichever last name she’s using nowadays) that it was just a naming reference due to similar mechanics.
As to Mursaat returning… to OP: Eye of the North gave the biggest chance for a return, WiK just brought in and killed 7 mursaat.
Besides, with the quality and – even worse – the rate of reveal, would you really want the mursaat to return right now? I’d enjoy a return of them, but not with how the game’s development is going. The chapters feel too rushed to completion, the content to play feels too much too fast, and the quality feels overall unpolished. Not to mention that they’re backtracking on their “wider, not deeper” stance for lore (then again, how they went about with that was to redact the depth there was with Abaddon and humanity while making shallow lore throughout everywhere else – and now they’re trying to make deeper lore with Scarlet by tying everything to her, the complete opposite of what they said they wanted to do with Abaddon post-Nightfall!).
I feel the OP oversimplified every single GW2 villain there is. Every single one. Scarlet included.
I feel the people who excessively dislike Scarlet didn’t actually read anything about her and just think she’s a joker clone
Edit: there is reason and a cause behind her actions.
I’ve seen all that’s been noted in game about her. I’ve read the short story. I listened to the TowerTalk interview that redacts the Villain Sue-ness the short story creates.
I still don’t like her.
But I think the problem that I had to do such digging to learn about Scarlet is part of the issue about Scarlet that makes her such a bad character. It’d be like the only way for Lord Voldemort or Joker to become even remotely interesting would be by an interview with the respective authors of the villain’s story – if you cannot like a character by enjoying the story alone, but can by digging into external sources, then there’s something wrong with the storytelling.
This said, someone in this thread mentioned that ArenaNet needs better writers… this is true. But not in the stance of making interesting villains (or heroes). But rather in that ArenaNet’s writers – be it due to their own talent or the limitations of the time restraints of the LS – are need to allow the story to be experienced, rather than told.
P.S., whatever happened to “when it’s done”? It seems rather clear to me that ArenaNet’s releasing faster than they can properly polish. Even the original release feels that way (and I do recall it being mentioned that the Zhaitan fight was so bad because they were running short on time).
Scarlet dislikes the Nightmare Court just as much as she dislikes the Pale Tree. I don’t think she’ll be working with the Nightmare Court anytime soon and the preview seems to be a case of “despite the Nightmare Court’s presence, Scarlet’s here” – that the two are just in the same place but not working together (may even be fighting each other).
Though I can see Scarlet toying with the NC, I don’t think she’d use them as proper minions.
The Inquest haven’t been seen since Dragon Bash either, so I think they’ve discontinued working with Scarlet.
I do, however, realize that for a seasoned MMO player, who’s perception of quests has been blunted into checklists of usual tasks, they may feel samey. Since there is enough other content to level up on, however, I don’t see why a mechanic enjoyable to some should be replaced on the whims of some others.
[…]
There already are a lot of events that tie into heart completion. Turning hearts into events would just turn the minimap into an even smaller map, as the borders would be alight with event markers.
Now, if you would like to argue for ArenaNet to create a greater variety of and thus a longer reset interval for events tying into renown heart completion, I’d be with you.
The repetitious part is only a small part of the problem – and for the record, I seldom play MMOs (and when I do, they’re free to play and I play them for a month max).
To me, the greatest issue is that there’s no sense of accomplishment. The world is unchanged by completing the heart. You get told “good job, the problem’s gone/lessened” but there’s no change when you go there.
Events affecting hearts are irrelevant in the matter in my opinion, since they’re not the actual heart activities.
The hearts make the world feel static, unchanging, which is the complete opposite of what ArenaNet has stated they wanted with the game.
never thought i’d see a Konig post i disagree with so much… i guess there’s a first time for everything.
removing the renown hearts would damage the game, in my opinion
But being praised for doing something and being told that something made a change, when the open world held no affect to it – even temporary – is not damaging the perception of the game that ArenaNet had tried to build?
They want an evolving world, so having something that is completely static and ever-present – the heart system – is only counter-intuitive.
No thank you, if you don’t like them, simply don’t do them, just because you aren’t fond of them doesn’t warrant a removal. Other people enjoy doing them, also the game doesn’t cater to your every whim.
That’s been my stance on them since day one. That’s what I’ve been doing. Beyond map completion and leveling, I don’t do hearts because they break the flow of the game to me.
But with the living story, it feels like ArenaNet’s saying one thing, and is doing two completely separate things, which is just ruining the game in my view.
And my “every whim” has nothing to do with it. Amazing how insulting folks can be. ArenaNet has stated they want to make the game go a specific direction, and I’m just pointing out one of the things that is preventing that direction.
Hearts were a very good move from traditional MMOs, if you find them boring you’re probably just burnt out.
I agree they’re a good move from traditional MMOs. However I found them boring after the first couple zones in the game. So I’ve been burned out for over a year but kept playing the game with interest constantly?
Nonetheless, as I’ve said, while I do find them boring – and I’m far from the only one, I wouldn’t have made that point if many other people didn’t tell me they found the hearts boring too – I’m more making this suggestion because they’re static and thus prevent a living world.
Truth be told – how ArenaNet treats their ambient spawns (e.g., non-event spawns) are mostly the same as how the hearts are. Thing is those are easier to alter for future living story chapters.
They probably don’t have an in-game historical royal line shown so that they can alter it as they wish.
Suffering is not the same as failure. Not even close. And failures isn’t exactly required for depth either, let alone to prevent Sue-dom, which is the complete opposite of what you claimed.
Hitting the double digit karma rewards (45-50 range) and seeing exotics at the top of the inventory and blue/white at the bottom (ie: not sorted, not after opening boxes, etc)
…………..
I seldom see exotics in my inventory. Hell, it’s uncommon to see rares. My inventory from scarlet invasions is pretty much blues and greens throughout, with 3 or so rares and the only orange being those boxes which stack so obviously more closer to the beginning than the end.
If you’re getting a lot of exotic gear at the beginning… I wouldn’t be complaining in your shoes.
I’d place the first case as a situation of name changing during development combined with oversights. As I said before, there’s some out-of-the-way Whispers dialogue that does this already. One case is a Whispers agent in Lion’s Arch calling the Trader’s Forum by its early demo name – The Agora.
For the case of Fixing the Blame, though again I haven’t played through it, it seems to be a case of the Flame Legion taking over the Pact base.
The novel does say when Lion’s Arch was founded – I just didn’t include it as it is a separate line and wasn’t relevant, in my view, to Mazdak directly. For sources of Lion’s Arch’s founding to being pre-Exodus:
“Lion’s Arch had stood since the days humans first colonized the nation of Kryta, like a foundation stone of the kingdom, and of civilization itself.”
Sea of Sorrows, page 5
“The seat of power in Kryta, Lion’s Arch housed the royal palace okitteng Doric and his line until after the last Guild War.”
Guild Wars Prophecies, Lion’s Arch town description
That last line is kind of interesting, implying that for one reason or another, King Doric in his lifetime had used the city as the place of his palace. The most logical explanation would be that either Mazdak didn’t establish Kryta immediately with conflict, it is a generalization for Doric’s bloodline (meaning Doric himself never used it as his palace – this is most likely IMO), or that Mazdak lost the war (by choice or outright defeat) and Doric then used the palace to govern Kryta more personally until his death in 1 BE.
While yes, Ree did seem to be uncertain of what she was saying – being on the spot and unable to double-check sources can easily lead to such even for someone who’s job is to keep continuity with the lore, when it comes to such out of the way lore – however what she says still lines up pretty well with what we’re told elsewhere. That Mazdak, son of Doric, succeeded from Orr with hostility.
Even without the interview, we can easily come to that conclusion.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
This line of thought has already been more or less confirmed. The Elder Dragons balance magic in the world. Though not quite how you hypothesized.
See here.
The question that remains though, is whether magic is constantly being added to the world – according to the interview talked about in the link above, the Elder Dragons consume magic while active, but produce magic while hibernating. Which means two things:
The first point is a confirmation. The second point is an implication. With the second point, it mainly depends on whether or not the Elder Dragons’ consumption and production of magic are equal – that they release the same amount of magic that they consumed before hibernation. If it isn’t – and depending on which way it isn’t (more likely to be a case of releasing less than consuming) – then there’s multiple scenarios that can play out.
The questions that remain in the end are thus:
Edit: Ninja’d by Narcemus.
(making a new post due to character limit reached)
And to expand on the second point at the end of my previous post…
The concept of the Living Story requires a careful balance between time of releasing content and the amount of content given. They almost had it with Flame and Frost – all they needed was more content per update to keep people occupied, and not much at that. But they went and messed it up by giving the same amount of content as the whole of F&F’s four parts in a fourth of the timespan. I don’t think anyone would have liked or remembered Flame and Frost HALF as much (and that’s being generous) if it all took place in the course of January alone.
If, instead, they delivered the amount of content in half the time, with the same amount (roughly – 2-4 months) telling the chapter, I think that while things may feel drawn out in an “overarching plot” sense, the individual chapters would feel better and more importantly there’d be more time to expand on characters and events happening.
In short, while Scarlet’s character does has flaws (/insert bad pun) the bigger issue is more in the Living Story’s development rather than Scarlet’s character herself.
And you know what? I’m going to go ahead and give my full analysis of the Scarlet Briar character in this thread (though it’ll likely be ignored in the end).
Scarlet Briar is a character presented to us as a poorly developed character under the pretense of “we’ll learn more later” – the sad thing is, regarding Scarlet’s history, it’s all there now. Or just about all there. There’s no room to really develop her background.
The sad thing is, knowing her background alone is what exactly makes her a Villain Sue. And this comes from what a “Sue” character is – someone that has no flaws, or in borderline cases next to no flaws (or the reverse: having nothing but flaws). However, what makes a bad character isn’t so much Sue-dom, as that can be rectified in the storyline (new situations being presented in which the person does have a flaw) though such situations feel like the author trying to rectify a mistake realized only once the audience points it out (what the TowerTalk interview feels like doing). Rather, it is the lack of depth that makes a poor character. And though Anet gave Scarlet backstory, they didn’t give her depth.
As I said in the previous post of mine, background is not the same as character depth. Depth comes from how character interacts with the changes of the world, the most important of such interactions being how one copes with failures or reinforces their beliefs. On top of that, they require redeeming values – especially those who commit crimes (such as villains) – without them they appear like Kratos at the end of the God of War trilogy, a ball of unrelenting hate and fury (to give the series credit, the first game developed Kratos perfectly, but with the change in directors Kratos ended up devolving into just some hack-and-slash figurine).
The problems with Scarlet is that she has had no failures by the time we met her (meaning nothing about failures in her short story). It is literally a situation that we are the cause of her first failure ever, at the Queen’s Jubilee. And her beliefs have only been told to us, barely, through the short story – that she intends to alter the fate that the universe dictated for the characters (PC and otherwise), but we have not been shown any hint at how she intends to reinforce them (which would be tied to her grand master plan).
In other words, Scarlet Briar was set up to be introduced as a blank slate – in the most literal of senses for character development. She’s basically presented to us as a newborn child with background. And doing that only hurts the character since there’s no development made from that background.
You can quite literally take Scarlet from when she was born from the Pale Tree, and Scarlet after she left the sensory deprivation device, and they’d be practically identical. The only difference is that she’s officially insane. She always thought she was better, she always thought she understood how all the systems worked by just looking at things. So there’s no personality difference.
By arguing the issue is that her background is “too perfect” or whatnot is only briefly touching the issue. The issue is that ArenaNet has given us a chance they had to develop her, and did not do so. A secondary issue is that they decided to take a month break from Scarlet – which prevents us from understanding her and seeing her personality fleshed out and her character developed for that much longer.
In short, the real issue behind Scarlet’s character can be dumbed down to two things:
Childhood and suffering isn’t needed for a good villain. And while Scarlet is indeed a Villain Sue and a shallow character – at least as far as she’s presented – she is not so for the reasons of the OP.
The OP is following a trend many of the new thread makers are following – complaining without giving much detailed thought into it. Or at least that’s what it feels like. Most of the posts are now just outright whining for… what? If you don’t give well detailed, thought out, and most of all convincing posts, then ArenaNet won’t listen and the community will just view you as nothing more but a complainer.
There’s many paths to take to make a good villain. A childhood is not necessary, let alone a suffering one.
In fact, in my opinion, creating a villain who is evil simply because of poor upbringing or he/she/it has suffered is exactly what makes a terrible villain. It makes the villain seem like a spoiled brat in worst case scenarios, and someone who’s just holding a silly grudge in best case scenarios.
Scarlet Briar, real name Ceara, is a bad character not because she did not suffer – because she did, actually (the whole “losing all senses for a time and going insane as a result” thing and being exiled from Rata Sum can be viewed as a form of punishment and thus suffering). Rather it’s because nothing in her life has brought her down a peg. On top of this, she is presented in a flat notion in the game – all we see is a crazy person bent on blowing kitten up and not giving a kitten either way. In the short story, we see someone who excels at everything but holds no interest in them; she’s a jack of all trades and despite most jacks of all trades being also a “master of none,” she’s also a “master of all.”
She’s presented with no character flaw. And that is what makes her a poor villain. A poor character in general.
However, this lack of failure does give us something about her – as told in this interview (which in of itself is an issue, because ArenaNet doesn’t give us enough details in the game), we learn that Scarlet has a superiority complex. One can easily realize that this superiority complex is formed by the combination of her carefree-ness (which is utterly annoying to me, but that’s just me) and her never having any real problems to go through. And this is why she has no depth – ArenaNet seems to confuse the notion of “character depth” with “has a background,” but that’s wrong entirely. A character with absolutely no background and never speaks can have a ton of depth to him or her. Depth comes from how one interacts with tough life choices, especially failures… and Scarlet’s interactions simply is “I succeed at everything, and laugh it all off.”
Scarlet Briar’s first real failure is Queen’s Jubilee – and it’s all thanks to us. So her first real character development will start with that in her whole life.
Lord Voldemort – as Erukk brought up – avoids the Villain Sueness and becomes an interesting character because he does have flaws, unlike Scarlet.
CHIPS, you’re confusing “has suffered” with “has flaws.”
Scarlet is 5 years old and grow from the comfort of the Pale Tree; No room for the story to grow there.
15, roughly, actually.
After eight years of voracious study in the Grove
spent a long winter as his pupil, apprentice, and forge-tender.
Next she spent two years with a gladium named Asagai,
She completed the Dynamics coursework in under a year
When she achieved similar results in a similar time frame [at Statics]
Synergetics took quite a bit longer,
Ceara’s time with the Inquest was brief – up to this point, it’s 100% certain to be prior to the personal story
She wandered for several months before settling in with the Michotl hylek
After months of painstaking preparation, Omadd’s experiment was ready.
8 years in Grove + half a year with Beigarth + 2 years with Asagari + 3 or more years at the colleges/Inquest + “several months” before and after Michotl hylek meeting each, places her with at least 13.5 years, likely close to 14-15 years by the end of the short story.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
I took the earthquake to be a misinterpretation of the dredge mining opening to the surface.
I don’t recall any sylvari settlements which get a name change. Mind pointing them out exactly?
Not sure which Flame Legion camp you’re talking about either. Only interaction between Pact and Flame Legion in the personal Story is Fixing the Blame which per the wiki at least only mentions Pact camps (though I’ve never done that step so…).
As to Mazdak:
Trahearne: Now I recognize these markings! Mazdak bought the first human settlers to Kryta, from Orr. No wonder he is so powerful.
Trahearne: As a mortal, he lived in Orr – while the dragon slept, hidden deep beneath the ground.
Mazdak is from Orr. I’m not sure how his placement would make him Ascalonian to you anyways, since humanity originated from Orr on the Tyrian continent (that is, they sailed to Orr then went up to Kryta and Ascalon). I’m guessing you thought such because King Doric was crowned in Ascalon?
Furthermore:
“This is the crypt of Mazdak, royal son of Orr, who came to these shores so that humans may raise a new nation: Kryta.”
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Captain_Bragen
“Doric was the first king of Tyria. His kingdom encompassed the lands we now know as Orr, Ascalon and Kryta. According to the ancient scroll. all human royalty descends from this first king.”
“Doric created the human system of governance: he sheltered his people, first in Orr, then as the population grew, sent them out into Tyria with his blessing.”
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orrian_History_Scrolls#A_Land_of_Kings
“What the human’s not telling you, Centurion, is that the nations of Orr and Kryta were at war when Lion’s Arch was built. That’s why they put it behind the natural fortifications of those stone escarpments.”
Sea of Sorrows novel, page 92
“There’s a story in another part of the game about, I believe he was the first king of Kryta. The son of Orr, the prince of Orr, who left Orr to settle that part of the mainland.”
" I think that when the prince who left Orr to establish Kryta, when he went to do that, by doing that he – I want to say he completely left the claim to the Orrian throne, and he certainly has a bloodline to it. But I think that the distance between the two thrones is going to be too disparate for her to just step up and say ‘I own that.’ "
http://www.guildmag.com/magazine/issue9/interview.htm
Slap all this together and you get:
Mazdak was the son of (darn censoring) King Doric who established Krytan; when he did he went to war with Orr for unknown reasons. Official records say that Doric sent humanity out to establish Kryta and Ascalon, implying that Mazdak was exiled. Perhaps willingly given Ree’s statement of “he completely left the claim to the Orrian throne.”
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
While I don’t recall where Copperhammer Mines is in GW2 off the top of my head (I tend not to spend much time in the lower Shiverpeaks… just not interesting to me), it should be kept in mind that the scaling differs between games so placements will be altered with just that idea.
ArenaNet, please remove the renown hearts from the game.
Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying “make map completion easier” or “remove content from the game” – in the case for the former, I have no problems with adding something new to map completion to make it equally challenging/time consuming or even added Southsun to map completion requirement or adding the “new thing” to Orr zones, and I sure as heck don’t want content removed from the game.
Here’s the reason why I want renown hearts removed from the game:
However, like I said I don’t like content being removed. In order to make the world feel more fluid, these hearts should be turned into a series of events. One event per optional objective of each heart. Completion of the event(s) would result in the former heart NPC to become a karma vendor until the event(s) reset. They would also affect the NPCs’ dialogue just as other events typically do to related NPCs.
Doing this would result in the world feeling less static, and a better explanation for eventually altering the world. Either just one event could be removed, or when it’s a case of the ambient enemies related to the hearts get removed (say, risen in Lychcroft Mere), the enemies can be returning only for the event (periodical risen invasion of the swamp, per example) which becomes less frequent (longer timer) due to the smaller presence. This would allow future events to be added, without conflicting (much) with older content and without the need to completely remove the hearts content (or work around it).
In regards to map completion, I’m not sure how to replace hearts. Perhaps something akin to the event skill challenges where you have to complete specific player-triggered events (but don’t get skills) that vary more than just fight 1 enemy or fight a small group of 3-5 enemies.
We didn’t get the Mad King Says game last year did we? Kinda miss that. Will be more hilarious this time now that more people can be shown.
We did. It was as a joke in the dungeon instance, and a periodical event in Lion’s Arch itself – participating in the event gave you a Witch Hat (though you were able to get it from an NPC later on).
Nothing says Edair was actually crowned king. Just that he was named heir when Baede died. If Edair died before coronation, gave up his right after the fiasco of the assault on Lion’s Arch, or was even denied such because of it…
And I disagree with what you said about the personal story. Most dredge mines are actually dwarven mines that were continued by the dredge. Hence why even in the open world, many of them hold dwarven artifacts. The one you talk about that Seiran calls a dwarven mine is Molent Summit – and if you look on the wiki’s article, you will see an event that takes place there titled Search rubble for Deldrimor artifacts to give to Scholar Alil Rodez. So in that particular case, that “clearly a dredge mine” is in fact a former dwarven mine.
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