Calling Scarlet the GW2 Joker is an insult to the Joker. She’s closer to the Harley Quinn, lacking the fanaticism to some dude she works for…
Or does she? Maybe Mister E has something he’s hiding. Just like how Scarlet signs her letters with S, E does the same…
@Aaron, doing a quick GW2W it seems they don’t have the lines I recall. That or I recall incorrectly. It is lacking a lot of dialogue from the personal story though. I recall mentions of “Plaguebringers” at the end of Retribution, at the beginning of Forging the Pact, and during The Source of Orr (if your ally from Retribution is there, or certain ones at least – so many dialogue alterations in that one depending on your PS choices ~_~).
@Eluveitie: What Aaron said about the corruption bit. It isn’t that they have, but that they can. Being a dragon minion does not make you immune to other Elder Dragons’ corruption. It’s all a choice of whether they choose too – just like Primordus corrupting living beings. We never actually see such, but it is possible for a destroyer to be a corrupted living being instead of merely corrupted rock and lava (as confirmed in the latest interview between GM and Anet).
I would disagree with no/little lore via missions. And GW2’s personal story for that matter. In Prophecies alone, we got the biggest scope of the Flameseeker Prophecies’ themselves in the missions; along with this we got things ranging from the Tome of the Fallen and the curse it gives (Nolani Academy bonus), the charr’s fiery faith (Surmia bonus), to the centaur war against Krytans (The Wilds bonus and the Ventari-related primary quests), the druids (Bloodstone Fen bonus; Aurora Glade), our first glimpse of the Margonites (Thirsty River), our biggest look at the history of Elonia (Elona Reach and Dune of Despair), and of course, the biggest look on the mursaat and seers (including their ancient conflict) in GW1.
In the personal story, we got a large range of things – from Balthazar-related relics, to Malyck, to the Steam creatures’ origins, to old traditions of Orr (Ossuary of the Unquiet Dead), it’s the only source of the Elder Dragons consuming magic as far as I know, the only placement of the White Mantle in GW2, as well as the Ministry Guard’s corruption, and so much more.
If anything, the personal story is the biggest source of lore in GW2 – which is a shame, since you have such limited interaction with it.
There are some NPCs in the personal story who refer to the champions as a group as “Plaguebringers.” At the end of Retribution, there’s even some dialogue going “I can’t believe we defeated a Plaguebringer.”
I’d like you to point to me where those “walls upon walls of quest text and dialogue within these quests” lie in GW2, because at least 75% of the events I’ve played through hold no text-based lore; most likely far more than that.
Elder Dragons cannot corrupt other Elder Dragon’s minions, much less a champion, so that’s unlikely.
And, as far as we know, all the champions like Tequatl have a different name and are unique. So I doubt there are several Tequatls around.
You should replay Crucible of Eternity.
Because we have three cases in which a dragon minion has been affected by 3+ Elder Dragons – Kudu, Kudu’s Monster, and Subject Alpha.
So you’ve got it wrong, at least somewhat.
Though the question is: would the Elder Dragons corrupt other dragons’ minions? We know they’re not allies, but doing such may prove to be unbeneficial – all three of the above cases appear to be uncontrollable (more or less), at least by the Elder Dragons. Then there’s the fact that each Elder Dragon corrupts differently (whether by choice or default is still unclear; but that’s one of the things that “differentiate one Elder Dragon from the next” that Jeff Grubb has emphasized in couple times).
About “multiple Tequatls” – technically speaking, Tequatl the Sunless’s name is hylek, translates to mean “One In the Darkness Risen” (“The Sunless” is the hylek term for Risen, Tequatl means “one in the darkness” iirc). So it’s a title like The Shatterer and Claw of Jormag, unlike the other Zhaitan champions (as far as we know) such as Blightghast the Plaguebringer (“Plaguebringer” seems to be the kind of risen these champions are – akin to Eye of Zhaitan; these are all Plaguebringers, and Tequatl the Sunless is the hylek name for them).
Anyways, from what I observed, the “water vortex” skill is simply Tequatl creating a sinkhole that pulls folks into an underground chasm full of water. So it doesn’t seem so water-related to me. I’d consider it to be rather undead-like, personally, as it’s a skill that pulls folks underground. It “just so happens” that there’s an underground chasm full of water there.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
Separatists using Ebonhawke weapons make sense, though. What doesn’t, is Ebon Vanguard not using Ebonhawke weapons.
It’s not that; it’s the fact that 90% of the readers/viewers have the Stark House as their favorite, so GRRM kills its members.
Well duh, who wouldn’t love Tony Stark? Everyone should have Iron Man’s house as their favorite.
Sorry, couldn’t resist. :P
I cannot see how the SAB weapons are any more immersion breaking than most of the armor and weapons in the game, let alone how people dye their armor. I mean, come on, there is a pistol with saws in the middle of the barrel – which would obviously prevent firing proper bullets, but due to placement would also cut off your own finger if you tried to release from the trigger.
And then we’ve gotten armor like this and that – one’s a self-accupuncture armor, the other is “heavy” but reveals all vital points.
But 8-bit weapons is the “immersion breaking” when you have a greatsword the blade of which isn’t even metal
So, what’s your lore perspective on sPvp? Why does your character fight in the mists?
sPvP seems to be a continuation of GW1’s Heroes’ Ascent – a series of tournaments ran by mortals (and in GW1 at least, watched for entertainment by the spirits of the dead) for the sake of honor and glory.
It’s basically like taking the Roman gladiators, removing the slaves and debts (at least no mention of such in official lore), and moving the arenas out of the main cities (where those with debts fight) and into the Mists.
ArenaNet really left out the lore of sPvP, so we don’t really know if it’s the same or not as GW1, we just know that it’s a series of fighting arenas in the Mists. All we really have regarding the lore is what the arenas are representing – like the Fractals of the Mists, the sPvP maps each are a reflection of past, modern, or future events. Battle of Khylo was a fight between two guilds (Ascalon’s Chosen and Zealots of Shiverpeaks – Ascalonian and Orrian respectively) during the Third Guild War. Raid on the Capricorn seems to be a replication of when Cobiah Marriner tried stealing the Capricorn when it was finished being built. Not sure on the others since I never do sPvP and can only go off of names and UI maps and screenshots.
WvW, surprisingly, has far more lore… even if not by much.
You’re mixing mechanics into their lore story. Having to revive them is due to NPCs being made far weaker than PCs could, so that it’s still a challenge and not just “go afk and let the NPCs solo everything” kind of deal, while simultaneously avoiding the Prophecies and Factions issue of “NPC death=failure.”
Kiel isn’t part of the personal story, so complaining that her story isn’t about them is rather moot. The later personal story is still about you, as while Trahearne’s the one pushing paperwork and ordering the troops, you’re the one who decides how to strike targets mentioned by others (who aren’t Trahearne either), and does the actual striking.
The Living Story is bound to fail, IMO, due to the whole “design allows new players to join at any point” simply because Scarlet now seems to hold a vendetta against the PC for ruining her Clockwork Chaos plans – something that won’t be the case for players starting the story now and in the future. Plus the characters beyond Rox and Braham hold little depth and are nothing more than 5 minute wonders, the story’s full of comedy despite the dark overtones, and even Rox and Braham are a comedy routine (just a better less over-done one than… everyone else but Kiel who’s as bland as watching paint dry on a tan wall).
This seems more properly placed in the Living World forum or the General Discussion forum than the lore forum, IMO.
Not only that the Fractals can and, in fact, are distorted (our mere presence distorts it), but that fractal in particular shows the “beginnings of history” – likely human history on the world. In other words, it predates GW2 by over 2,000 years; meaning it predates Ebonhawke by over 1,800 years easily.
They were likely trying to increase Scarlet’s kittenery by showing she grinded through two Legendaries on top of her over-the-top studying history.
She should have been given The Predator instead, that would make sense seeing how she studied under a renowned sniper.
I don’t think it was ever said that Lyss and Ilya has an “official” face and a “hidden” face…
The shield’s text is just Meerak the Shouter’s words, so I doubt that’s the original copy or anything of the like (being in New Krytan further proves that).
It’s never actually said she wrote them, just “compiled” and foresaw the events.
A bit of digging on the wiki and from memory found me this:
In Gates of Kryta, White Mantle members make mention of “scriptures” that mention the undead:
“The scriptures speak of the walking dead. Soon the true seers will be revealed.”
Then, in the Desolation by the Ascension Pilgrim, we have:
“Turai thought the Scriptures contained a map to enlightenment and Ascension. But they were merely lies to lure weak-minded.”
“Palawa Joko’s final curse on us was the Scriptures of Abaddon. And look what they have done to the Ossa line.”
Then by Turai himself:
“I perished, along with the rest of my people, trying to build a temple to the old gods. We foolishly thought that we were the ones in the Flameseeker Prophecies. The ones who would rise to be led to the Hall. But fate is a cruel master, and it is I who have become the guide.”
wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ghostly_Hero_(PvE)#Dialogue
Makes me wonder if Turai gained knowledge of the Flameseeker Prophecies in those Scriptures of Abaddon that Joko “cursed” upon the Ossa line; and I wonder if these Scriptures of Abaddon hold any relation to the White Mantle’s scriptures which do make mention of (parts of) the Flameseeker Prophecies.
But it seems that only “scriptures” is used in reference to what the Flameseeker Prophecies are written within.
The High Wizard likely switches between Twilight and Sunrise, mechanically speaking. So his weapons would likely only get cosmetic changes if those two got them, not if Eternity got them.
Honestly I doubt there’s going to be any serious lore behind it, any more than there’s lore behind changes like making the Fire Elemental in Thaumanova Reactor not so deadly to fight.
Difference between this and that is that the Elemental change was not part of a huge living story update. It didn’t have a whole living story chapter named after it.
Yeah… some dialogues just get left behind. Mai Trin, for instance, is still stuck in the immediate aftermath of her arrest.
Kinda disappointing, seeing as how the Aetherblades have been such an integral part of everything that has happened since then.
I don’t see that as a dialogue left behind. It just shows that she was abandoned by Scarlet, but Mai believes her men will still come for her.
Well, it could be an oversight, but I wouldn’t count it as such.
What is disappointing though, is Kasmeer and Marjory having no altered dialogues for this update – Rox and Braham did during Dragon Bash and Bazaar updates, but for content related to their own city, Kasmeer and Marjory gets no update other than worriment over not having clients (which I think was around last month)?
The Necromancer who sent the boy’s spirit to the Mists was given a name: Kraig the Bleak; a man at that.
So I doubt that guy is Livia.
And the name implies it was a norn (at least Kraig sounds like a norn name).
Then again, Mister E could have been covering for the necromancer and lied about the name…
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
The oversight I meant was the words of “several” and “a few” not the 17 and 7 – like she hadn’t decided how many charr were left or going to be left, so she kept it generic and didn’t bother to change it to make it flow a bit better.
(Side note: A single warband has 5-20 charr. So there could have been anywhere between 10 and 40 charr on board originally. With it being a test run, 17 sounds most practical)
It wouldn’t be. The only way to free Tequatl and give him free will is by cleansing it via the Forgotten ritual that removed Kralkatorrik’s yoke from Glaust (Glint).
This may not be so if the Elder Dragon dies. Though they seem to remain loyal to Zhaitan, given the Arah explorable, that doesn’t exclude them from having a free will now.
Personally, my hope with this storyline is that it’ll be confirmed to be post-Zhaitan, and Tequatl (we never do see his body upon death, do we… unlike the Shatterer who’s death is confirmed and the Claw who’s said to be killed iirc) will have been absorbing the remaining corrupted magic of Zhaitan off-screen.
It could prove interesting for that theory on Zhaitan’s death that was posted a while back – over time, a champion can rise up to take Zhaitan’s place. Tequatl may turn out to become this champion. I think it would be awesome if they pull out Zhaitan’s old model for a future Tequatl-related update, giving Tequatl a visual upgrade as well.
I don’t think Tequatl’s gotten to Zhaitan’s corpse or anything, but I do think it’s possible that the Risen are starting to absorb the corruption of the land itself, or perhaps there are more “sources of Orr” like scenarios in places other than Orr that we’ve missed – after all, while the land-based corruption is strongest in Orr, it wasn’t limited to there.
I don’t thing the change to Tequatl requires any new lore. Because I don’t feel that he’s really gained any new powers. He still does the bone wall thing, and spits poison. His behavior is more challenging, but I don’t see a change in his powers really. What I mean is, all he does is pretty much in line with what he did before. The only real big change seems to be this vortex he summons, that sucks players in. But we already saw him emerge from the water, so I don’t see that as something that needs to be explained.
New powers != new abilities
He’s gotten stronger, gained strength and become harder to kill. It doesn’t matter if he has new skills and abilities to use, though there’s the Hardened Scales you forgot to mention (though that’s how he uses the bone walls now). It’s just simply that he has gotten more powerful.
Do Charr really hate magic? That would negate Charr Elementalists (the most glaring example). No, to me, it has always been Charr hating the idea of worshiping a god, and the shackles that attitude may impose. Incidentaly in human lore, Gods gave magic to the races; thus, when Charr denied all gods, they turned a little from magic, deciding to go towards a more industrial culture.
Yes, they do hate magic. But as said, they are also practical and realize that magic has uses.
They hate magic. They don’t trust it. Magic users in charr societies are viewed rather negatively (best seen in the Blood Legion storyline where you go to recruit a Necromancer who’s being recruited by the Flame Legion; his warband ousted him for being a spellcaster when the Flame Legion went to recruit him the first time – they thought he was working with the Flame because he was a spellcaster; even your own warband mate has a chance of showing distrust with him during the recruitment step).
They do indeed also hate gods, but their hatred of magic is tied directly to the Flame Legion’s subjugation whereas their hatred of gods dates back further.
Elementalists use Destruction magic. This was outright confirmed on guildwars2.com back during the profession reveals. Since then however, they dumbed down the profession and race pages and a few very interesting tidbits – like the Destruction magic bit – was lost in the transition.
I’ve always suspected (as have many others) that Elementalists use destruction magic – which makes sense. By destroying the ground, they can use the chunks of earth to protect/block or as projectiles; fire and lightning are both naturally destructive, and one can cause destruction in water to make it explode or in the air to cause gusts and explosions; similarly, ice was frequently used in GW1 which would be deadly (thus destructive).
The new elementalist skills that heal – in fact, healing on a general note across all non-Guardian professions – is an interesting development which is perplexing. Is it just finding new ways to use the four schools, or did preservation get mixed into the professions thus limiting folks from using more professions (as more schools would become difficult to handle)?
To the Guardian skill and immobilize – I’d view that as preserving to the point of semi-petrification. After all, how does one preserve meat? Solidify it with ice!
As to drawing upon magic with fewer restrictions… that wouldn’t work with previously established lore. Hence the issue with the interview. The previous lore is that because of the bloodstones being split, it is outright impossible to use magic without the restrictions of the schools, unless/until the bloodstones are united.
There’s really only two ways to counter it: That magic in the world naturally – without the bloodstones – grew so much that it eclipses the bloodstones magic in usability; t his in turn means two things: 1) the hibernation period this time around for the ED was longer than previously (reasonable), and 2) that this had already been the case during GW1 (otherwise point 1 wouldn’t make logical sense) – or at least was, but not noticeably so.
Alternatively, it can mean that the bloodstones – be it all or just some – were reunited without people knowing. Which seems unlikely, given that every spellcaster in the world should have felt such an event in the change of their magic – theoretically at least.
As for how magic from the bloodstone works… it’s honestly never been explained. I’ve figured – since doing Arah explorable that is – that it just continuously seep out magic; magic in the world is a finite resource after all, implying that when one casts a spell, the amount of magic in the world reduces a little. And about the asura storyline – both sides are actually said; that it is previous belief to be an infinite resource, while a new theory involving Elder Dragons consuming magic says that it is a finite resource. Which is the case, is unknown, though Elder Dragons do consume and absorb magic – that’s outright confirmed.
As to the charr and magic bit – charr hate magic, but they realize its usefulness, so they still do learn it. HOW they learn it has never really been explained though.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
And I’m wondering what about my Lunaria, Circle of the Moon and Solaria, Circle of the Sun. They have Magic Find stats too.. 4% but still.
All celestial items are just going to lose their magic find stat, they’re fine as they are
kitten . I was hoping they’d gain Boon Duration or one of the other durations that Celestial stats don’t have. Aw well, not much harm to it.
in Super Adventure Box: Back to School
Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086
In cases of other gear, the “rarity” of a transmuted item previously (before an update which standardized its visuals) gained the rarity of the stats, not the skin. Though now the rarity is listed as “Transmuted” and the item name color is that of the highest rarity used. So hard to say.
@Obvious Shizzel: He’d be doing such after the update, so that he can get the skin he wants, but with the Legendary’s stat-changing effect.
So, from what I understand, and correct me if I’m wrong. There were four blood stones(originally one) and they were Preservation, Denial, Aggression, and Destruction. And a person could only draw from one stone, correct?
Incorrect.
There were five pieces – four were related to the schools, defining them. The fifth was the keystone, required to reunite the four other pieces.
And one person could not draw from all four schools at a single time/with a single spell. Given the secondary profession system in GW1, it seems that with training and special conditions met (Ascension/Weh no Su), one can access all schools, but only two at a time at most.
It might have even been possible to use three schools at a time. Just never four. But we don’t have a case of three professions of differing schools being used in GW1 to really show support, and NPCs in GW2 don’t have professions (though they may use PC-usable skills).
Do we know why they drew from that one stone? Were they born with some sort of mark for aggression, or did they just have aggressive tendencies. Like, they were, as a person, aggressive.
From how things are presented, though never outright confirmed, it seems that some people have tendencies to certain schools of magic, while at the same time they can choose which schools to learn from. Like a person who is naturally talented in drawing, but may want to sing instead.
Anyways, to your hypothesis – I would say that Guardians don’t use denial, but only preservation. Monks and Paragons in GW1 had protective skills but seemed to be Preservation alone.
When one thinks of the schools, one shouldn’t think of it as “what is done” but “how it is done” – or at least that’s how I’ve always taken things, given the lore prior to this interview. Preserving can prevent harm done to the body, just as well as it can heal harm done, in my mind in a way of “preserving the current state”. One can view a similar action to be denial in “preventing damage” as well – in this concept, both denial and preservation can achieve the same feat, but using different methods and mentalities.
Though that’s pretty much my own theory on how the schools function in distinction – by methodology and not outcome – it would clarify a lot of the GW1 skills around the professions. Though such seems to have gotten muddled up in GW2’s skills.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
The problem is that ArenaNet seems to be treating their instances – not just the PS ones, but dungeon ones too – as happening “in the now” (to use their own wording that I saw once).
Which creates all kinds of time paradoxes.
White Mantle were pretty blatantly evil – or at least oppressive – if you read the manual (just like Khilbron). And Hot Spring Murders quest made it more so. And other than that, no plot twists existed in Prophecies.
If you didn’t read the manuals, it would be different – because then you wouldn’t know that it was the Vizier who sunk Orr, nor would you know that the White Mantle were oppressing those who didn’t believe in the Unseen Ones.
And it’s kind of funny – earlier I was talking with Thalador about how the lore of the game has changed over the years and I noted something. The Prophecies storyline was written primarily by two individuals who had two different directions they wanted to go – hence why it feels so mix-mashed in the direction it goes. During Factions development, the person who wrote up An Empire Divided left the company in a “less than pleasant” situation and left without explaining the direction he was leading the lore of Cantha. Kind of ironic how the less internal conflict there is for where Anet wants to direct the lore, the less interest it seems to hold.
The markings either come and go, or got removed. There’s a similar rock-slid-looking wall on the outside of The Infestation in Iron Marches that has the same markings. It’s like an alchemic circle version of this thing
Derigar, I think you misunderstand me.
What you’re saying you want, however, would require basically repeating everything from GW1 in GW2. Everything lore related that is. I Doubt such would happen.
It seems you think I was wanting that you wouldn’t understand GW2 without playing GW1 or reading the books – that’s not what I meant. What I meant is that what ArenaNet is doing is putting so little historical lore care into the plots, that you don’t really care about finding out about the lore.
Take the Vigil lvl 30-40 storyline, and the whole events of Fields of Ruin. Sure, you get there’s a charr-human treaty being written up and you got some groups trying to end it… but why is that treaty so important? I mean other than the whole “unite to fight the dragons” – why is it taking so long? Why is it such a tedious ground? What is the history of the two races? Why is there so much rivalry between them? GW2 barely gets into it, and you can go through the whole plot without caring, finding out, or becoming interested in it. But if you played GW1, you’d know a lot more about it and you’d care about it.
What I meant is that Anet dumbed things down to the point where it doesn’t matter whether or not you know the background. It’s not all there, and it doesn’t have to be there – that’s how Anet made GW2. Which is a double-edged sword. It reduces the need to put more lore in, but it also reduces the interest in the lore.
It’s because of that action on ArenaNet’s part – their dumbing down of the plot and having so little lore upfront – that people like WoodenPotatoes is so large in the community. He doesn’t make the lore interesting, or even accurate most of the time. He does a rather poor job of research, quite frankly, when he says to be unable to find certain lore facts he’s heard about – said lore facts being from in-your-face NPC dialogues often enough, but what he does a good job of doing is showing people that the game does have lore.
ArenaNet doesn’t show that. Instead of showing the game has lore and story and background, they put their background on their official site, where it’ll be lost to the nether of news posts. Or removed entirely like their blog posts (thank god they got put on the wiki first).
I took that as a wording oversight, as if Ree went back and changed the numbers of the crew afterwards. After the fight, we see 4 charr alive (iirc) at the battle with Salma’s Grace. Which results in 3 charr alive afterwards (iirc, again).
Aaron, to me at least, the issue with this interview is not Angel’s approach to answering, nor her syntax, nor her grammar, nor her vocabulary nor any of that stuff. It’s the fact that what she says outright contradicts GW1 and GW2 lore, it makes years of built up lore become “rubbish” in the face of this information.
What she says requires outright and blatant retconing of the first game’s showing of lore, by her just telling us. And she blatantly retcons the calendar for… what exactly? Something that still doesn’t work. And hell, she outright states that she, as a “loremaster” (her own self-titling at PAX), had completely forgotten about the Mouvelian calendar. And given her response, this proves she had completely forgotten about the Canthan calendar, Dynastic Reckoning, the placement of the New Year for Tyria aka Wintersday (Spring Solstice) and more.
She herself proved that she doesn’t know some important parts of lore, and shown that this interview was not live, but despite that didn’t even look up information that is available to all players ON THE WIKI ITSELF.
Like I said, it’s got nothing to do with how she answered questions. I actually enjoy the enthusiasm she shows, and the straightforwardness was a refreshing change of pace compared to the other interviews. I just wish she’d include some professionalism to her enthusiasm, and be more careful with her obvious mess-up that calls into question her knowledge as a “loremaster.”
I respect Ree, Jeff, and even Scott despite his hand in the creation of Scarlet. I respect Bobby Stein and Matthew Medina as well, despite Matt’s language creations all being mere ciphers rather than something a bit more… complex. I’d respect Angel too, despite the direction of the Living Story, if it weren’t for her showing she doesn’t know her own job at the end, and obviously didn’t do proper research on the question she was answering.
I MIGHT have been fine with her blatant retcon, IF it included all issues of the Tyrian and Earth timelines syncing up.
Minor correction – it wasn’t her blatant retcon, if she’s to be taken truthful about that meeting. But she was the figurehead who presented it. Though it would have been FAR better to have just gone “the two don’t link up perfectly.”
The "funny" thing is that, according to Angel McCoy, everyone and everything has access to magic, uses magic, and knows they can. And magic has only gotten stronger since GW1.
Then what’s with the over-the-top use of technology? I get it, cultures advance, we’re fighting magic consuming eldritch abominations (in the personal storyline), and honestly I don’t have a problem with technology in the game. My problem is that it’s just too heavily played.
Kind of funny, though, how the introduction of Scarlet has gotten just about the entire lore forum in an uproar about the direction of the lore, and talking about things earlier.... Well, I guess the Living Story has reached the "too much" point.
TBH, for me, I could live with where the asura and charr were in the initial release. And if not for Angel’s interview but a better proper explanation, I could deal with the whole Orr-is-very-magical and other lore from Orr.... But now it’s gone too far from the original lore.
So much for ArenaNet claiming that they seriously care for the lore.
The Minstrel 2.0 (Mc-whatever will never be able to hold a candle to Maklain the Minstrel) and Job-hobo-tron remind me of Bulk and Skull from the original Power Rangers. A comedy side-story that gets directly involved in problems.
Problem is, Braham and Rox is also a comedy routine, as well as Motto, and lets not forget Faren.
sigh You know, by the arguments in this thread for the crackpot theory of a seemingly trolling Ludo, then I can very well argument everyone and everything is merely an illusion of Lyssa.
Here’s the truth for you: The Gods never left. In actuality they merely put everyone into stasis in their spaceship that’s buried beneath Orr. Everything that’s been experienced for the past 1326 years has been a simulation.
You cannot disprove it, just like it’ll prove to be impossible to debunk the “Jennah is an illusion” theory simply because 1) she won’t be killed, given how Anet said they’ll treat the Living Story, so having a corpse to verify “she was real” is out of the question and 2) people will just using the very argument that Narcemus uses a variation of – “if we don’t see it happen, how can we know it happens?” Using that very argument, or the argument of a perfect disguise, I can even say this: “Trahearne isn’t the leader of the Pact. It is in fact Scarlet using a mesmer illusion to disguise herself as Trahearne!” In the same fluid motion, I can argue that Rytlock Brimstone doesn’t exist, he’s actually just a prototype Watchknight – why do you think he really didn’t want to go to the Pavilion? Because he feared being reprogrammed, obviously. Besides, how else could Anise mimic Rytlock’s words from an event she didn’t witness?
The ridiculousness of the theory – in that it’s such a “mind-bending” twist that it’s perfect material for an M. Night Shyamalan movie – is really all the proof you need that it won’t be the case. ArenaNet has, since day one, never been good at twist plots. Given Scarlet, I don’t think they suddenly got someone onto the team who is.
Besides, we got interviews where we’re told that Jennah has actual, and genuine, emotions (she loves Logan), so are you also going to argue that a mere illusion, a fake creation, has genuine emotions?
For Jennah to be a non-existent being, there’d have to be such a huge massive conspiracy going about that the very minds of nearly all Krytans would require to be brainwashed; official documents forged; someone other than Anise requiring to know and orchestrate it while Anise was a mere baby to fake that Jennah existed, and most important would require the claimed-to-be-near-fanatical Shining Blade to break their solemn duty of upholding the Krytan monarchy with Salma’s bloodline. Because Jennah not existing means, there is no more heir, because Jennah is the last heir. It means her father – be it the one-time-mentioned King Rodrick or someone else – would require to have never had a child.
There is just too much lore established to require countering, and too much conspiracy-ness needed to make it reasonable. And ArenaNet has shown that those types of plots… are not the kinds of plots they make.
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But if Anise is the queen, and “Jennah” is the illusion, then Anise being away from Jennah isn’t an issue, unless Jennah is also somewhere doing something.
There are points where they’re separate and we’re told they’re doing other things. We see Jennah without Anise just as well as Anise without Jennah.
But still, why would Anise talk to an illusions when she is all alone with said illusion.
Not restricted to the LS, no, but focused upon it. There isn’t really that much that’s bad of the initial release. Some things, for sure, but not as much as you make it out to seem Obsidian. I can easily summarize the entirety of the lore issues of GW2’s initial release with 4 simple bulletpoints not even a sentence long each:
The first retcons – to varying degrees – what little remained of the History of Tyria’s ancient history records (Forgotten and Seer paths). The second just causes confusion – primarily regarding Izz-al Din’s geography, but also the Charr Invasion of Orr which becomes questionable on how they could so easily succeed when Orr was full of magic users, and then there’s the whole matter of humanity arriving on the world (3 points). The third is that nearly everything about the Stone Summit got turned into “Elder Dragon objects!!!!” when they didn’t even have similar counterparts (Sanguinary Blade, last wielded by Dagnar Stonepate – wait, what? He had an axe!). And the fourth is that the asura turned from magically-acceled midgets from underground to ArenaNet’s “push to do anything” button – from ED killing lasers (reasonable but needed more exposition) to cameras and microphones (arguably reasonable but needs any amount of exposition) to video game systems within a video game 8D (wait… what?).
The LS though… that’s more questionable with everything from Secret of Southsun and on. Only thing good in the LS since then has probably been the unexplained tentacles on Southsun, and the Zephyrites (though the Bazaar udpate fails because how the hell did the ship get to Labyrinthine Cliffs from LA?).
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The lore certainly does allow for a very dark undertone. It’s a shame that the writers apparently prefer creating dark atmosphere but with comedic story plots. It’s like taking a pinata and putting it in a Marco Polo game.
Yeah. It can work, but doesn’t mean it doesn’t look weird.
Counter argument to Jennah is an illusion – a theory which is as asinine as Grenth=Menzies (both being related to darkness and destruction; one a half-god, the other implied to be one; etc.) which I came up for laughs a long while back. Edge of Destiny, Jennah and Anise are alone together, and they’re having a conversation. Only counter-argument is that Anise is mentally unstable, in which I doubt she’d be able to maintain such an elaborate act.
How much do we know about Anise? I’ve played through all 3 of the human story lines, and I can’t remember ever seeing Anise and Jennah apart.
End of Street Rat Apothecary step; throughout the Trial of Julias Zammon during Noble storyline (as well as going with Anise’s plan, and choosing who’s plan to go with); Unknown Parents story steps that involve Anise – which is about 3 of them. Honestly speaking, the ONLY time yo usee Anise and Jennah together in the human storyline is the lvl 20-30 chapter that’s shared between all humans.
Anise is separate from Jennah a lot.
They do if they are powered by human souls like in the theory. All the disappearing children is a really strange occurrence. That if we don’t/can’t investigate is a real disappointment.
There are no disappearing children. >.>
There are people who are invited into the tower, and are just never heard from again. People suspect that life in the tower is just that good.
There are no disappearances. It is known who, when, and where people leave.
Carys and Tegwen are, if you play your story choices right as a sylvari (Act with Wisdom; Priory; Trap for Eye; Vigil invasion into Cursed Shore), interacted with more than Seiran. And then there’s all the sylvari NPCs in the first 20 levels that you deal the full arc with more or less. The sylvari Crusader who gets you into the order also returns later on (iirc, in both Forging the Pact and Vigil invasion of Cursed Shore).
Side note: Carys and Tegwen=my favorite sylvari. RIP Tegwen. <3 Carys. From bubbly to serious. Best character development in the game, IMO. Just a kitten shame how out of the way you must go to witness them.
Around Ghosts of Ascalon’s release, I believe at PAX or Gamescom of that year, Jeff Grubb stated that there was only three novels planned. However, if the three novels got good praise and sells and demand for more exist, they would consider more novels.
So far, we haven’t heard of any consideration.
They couldn’t add too many new back story for GW2, without out right contradicting GW1.
To this, I disagree with you. It is very much possible to add new back story for GW2. After all, if you seriously look at the historical lore presented in GW1, with the exception of the Canthan empire, we know very little about the past of the human nations. And even with the Empire, there’s a lot of blank slates to work with.
Yeah, but you’re still filling in gaps. You’re not writing anything new, just adding clay on top of an already finished sculpture. And that’s GW2’s problem, everything they write has to expand on what is already there. And while that be a great amount of free filler, it’s also a burden, that constraints the writers creatively. And it shows.
False.
History put in before human history is not “filling in the gaps” – history unrelated to the human histories (for example, the whole of The Ecology of the Charr) is not filling in the gaps. While that’d be true in some cases, when there’s nothing to hint at something having happened, that’s not quite filling in the gaps. If it is, then your argument can be used on the full existence of Factions and Nightfall, and even Eye of the North.
The problem is that they’d still be constantly railroaded by the lore that is already there. They can’t step out of that box.
I disagree. It all depends on how you work with what you’re given. You may be right about it being a “dance” in storytelling, but that is a far cry from shoehorning or being railroaded, let alone “filling in the gaps.”
I mean, what if the first expansion – should such ever take place – takes us to a previously unexplored continent? Will that still be shoehorning things in? Will it still be filling in the gaps? No, I don’t think so.
The problem here is that the writers can’t really take Tyria in an entirely new direction.
The problem is that the writers are deciding to do away with GW1 lore. That’s the problem. They are going in an entirely new direction, too much of one.
There’s already established lore from GW1, that directly limits them in what they can write. So either they have to redcon stuff, push it to the side, or not make any mention of it.
Or build off of it which is 100% perfectly possible, unlike your claim.
Sure you can write everything in a way that makes sense, but you’d still be busy filling in the holes left by other writers. If you want to truly do something new, you can’t.
In writing, “holes left by others” regard things mentioned but unexplained, not the utterly never mentioned stuff. Writing what happened in Kryta between its independence in 358 and Thorn’s life in cerca 800 AE is not filling in gaps – explaining the life of Thorn is filling in gaps.
Like I said, if you argue that it is, then you’re saying that EVERYTHING beyond the very initial lore of the very first game is “filling in the gaps.”
The Cliffside Fractal is a nice new bit of content. But did we really get any new lore out of it? Without context, it is just another random encounter.
Wasn’t that how most of Prophecies was? Just a little sentence on lore, or a mere observance like the runes on the pillars in the Chaos Plains of the Underworld. The giant skeletons of unexplained origins throughout Tyria and Elona.
Very little of Prophecies’ lore had in-game context. And that made us speculate and theorize over them. That’s why Uncategorized and Cliffside Fractals get so much attention. Same with the Pale Tree’s origins. Because we’re going just so little. Just like practically everything in Prophecies.
I fail to see how this is a problem in the least. If anything, that “just another random encounter” is exactly how ArenaNet has done their lore since day one. The very first quest ever designed, The Villainy of Galrath, is exactly this. No context, just some guy wearing White Mantle armor that we’re told to kill because he’s trying to access something that could prove dangerous.
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But in all seriousness, don’t you think that countess Anise is capable of this level of deception?
Or maybe the countess is the queen in disguise… I’m thinking that the queen and the countess are the same person.
Isn’t Jennah older than Anise, though? They’re at the very least about the same age.
So for your tinfoil hat theory to work, Anise would have had to make an illusion of Jennah (as a young kid/baby) while Anise herself was just a young kid/baby. That, or commit a brainwash of just about every noble, royal, Shining Blade, and most citizens of DR/Kryta/Tyria. Or just be some massive conspiracy that, for some odd reason despite being the savior of Kryta, our PCs aren’t in on.
Now, when will we have an actual Charr racial leader, I wonder? Squabbling, desk-dwellers are hardly compelling Tribunes.
We have three. They’re called Imperators. You can talk to one, and he insults you if you’re charr. For being in the wrong place for your puny ranking, Centurion/Legionnaire.
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Truth be told, SHE never claims to have seen the Eternal Alchemy. Vorpp says she does. And with all the other subjective “truths” we’re told throughout the game, can we believe Vorpp is right? He may think he is, doesn’t make it so.
When she woke up in the short story, all she claimed to have seen is the fate and purpose of the sylvari. Of course, if she didn’t know there were other sylvari out there, then she wouldn’t be lying, just wrong. And remember that Malyck’s existence was a tightly kept secret.
She wasn’t a councillor, so there was a text error that needed fixing, and the sacrificing bit is stated in another plaque near Claw’s Portage Waypoint. That plaque’s old text holds no relevance to Macha’s Landing, since the docks were named such due to Macha’s importance in establishing Lion’s Arch.
Zephyrites did use existing lore. They’re the spiritual successors of the Brotherhood of the Dragon.
Though I agree with the “why bring in new guys” bit. Molten Alliance worked enough because it was two old groups working together. Aetherblades, not so much. It’d be nice to deal with Scarlet quickly (be it killing her, imprisoning her (perhaps in The Grove’s prison), or forcing her to flee into exile), and then go back to some of the older enemies of lore – the White Mantle/Lazarus (Sinister Triad anyone?), Joko, etc. The initial release did well enough utilizing old foes (centaurs, Flame Legion, dredge, jotun), but some still exist to delve into. Especially in Cantha coughhintcough.
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@Mango and Dustfinger:
There’s a huge difference between depth and development. You can introduce a character who shows to have a good amount of depth within the first minute of showing. Or you can show the character without showing a hint of the personality at all. We see Scarlet’s personality. And it holds no depth… yet. THAT is her problem. She’s two dimensional of a personality.
It’s got nothing with the development – which by definition is how a character changes based on the progress of the story. So obviously she has no development yet. But depth/personality != development.
@ThiBash: Trahearne actually shows character development too, though that’s often overlooked due to the bland and monotonous voice acting he gets.
Even though i guess it should be limited to characters who actually joined the Priory.
Then the Vigil and Whispers need their own libraries – which would make sense.
The Vigil should have archives of past battles with Elder Dragons, and other major foes they help out against, for reference when planning strategies (Efut’s job of “theoretical strategizing” would require such information). The Order of Whispers should hold political information, especially blackmail materials.
But a lore library or even a codex in the Hero Panel, getting its own tab, is really needed.
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