Guild Wars 2

Now all we need is new means of getting the Fused Gauntlets, Horns of the Dragon, Molten Backpack, Fervid Censor, Sclerite Karka Shell, and Shattered Holographic Wings.

Then everyone will be happy.

Oh, and a return of SAB gear.

The Pale Tree explains that the Dream is more than just knowledge of the past, but also of the present and future. That sounds just like the Mists to me, especially since the Dream is an aethereal location that mimics Tyria (if not elsewhere too), just like the Mists does. The appearance of being in the Dream – both in the tutorial and A Light in the Darkness – also matches the experience of entering the Mists during the norn storyline.

Further confirmation of ties to Steam creatures.

Confirmation of ties to the Molten Alliance (they can be seen in the invasion events).

Likely, more to come once the Playhouse becomes available.

BrunoBRS.5178:

1- the dragon does not have to be present, or an active force, for the corruption to happen, as seen with other dragons;

2- the corruption process has varying degrees of difficulty (zhaitan’s minions just need to kill someone to corrupt them, jormag needs them alive and force them through a long ritual, and the corruption takes time to happen fully). creating branded creatures is obviously something mere minions can’t do, but if someone were to replicate (or tap into) the same magic kralkatorrik used to create the brand, then the corruption would’ve been visible.

3- branding magic is the only way to create branded creatures, and if the searing did not create branded creatures, then it is not branding magic. the searing and the branding have different methods and different outcomes, they just both share the theme of crystals and burning.

like i said, the brand’s process is “melt everything with magic, crystals come out of it”, while the searing’s process is “rain crystals everywhere, burn things with said crystals”. the outcome and the cause are reversed in the searing’s case. even if you believe i’m wrong regarding the corruption process and its challenges, the argument remains that the branding and the searing are two different processes, no more similar than an elementalist’s magic and primordus’ corruption.

Despite point #2 being wrong, you contradict yourself still. You state:

Branded do not make more branded.
The Searing does not make branded.
Therefore, the Searing is not Branded magic.

However, there is no logic to this conclusion you make. Furthermore, by saying Branded cannot make more branded, you’re stating “not all Branded magic can make Branded.” Which turns your argument into this:

Branded magic does not always make more branded.
The Searing does not make branded.
Therefore, the Searing is not Branded magic.

However, the proper conclusion to the two facts you bring up is this:
The Searing is not magic that makes branded.

Which is an obvious observation. It does not disprove the Searing from being related to Kralkatorrik.

Now with correcting your point to, it’s still accurate to state that not all Branded magic makes Branded, so the modified argument remains the same – the result is only that we know the Searing does not make branded, but still can fall under the category of “Branded magic that doesn’t make Branded” – e.g., the kind of magic most Branded use (in the game at least; in lore, it may be different just like how in lore anyone who dies in the vicinity of risen become risen but we see many individuals die in Orr but remain unchanged).

Another false notion you create is your statement of the brand’s process is “melt everything with magic, crystals come out of it” – now, while this may be how Kralkatorrik is presented as, the Branded themselves are not.

The Branded can be seen using fire without crystals. They can be seen using crystals without fire. And they can be seen using both at once (like the Searing actually is – it isn’t “use crystals to burn” but “use burning crystals”). Furthermore, if you watch how the Branded spawn, at least in some cases they spawn from burning crystals falling. And there are Branded in Iron Marches made by entrapping lifeforms within crystals (much like Subject Alpha’s imprisonment crystal).

Tuomir.1830:

My theory is that when the six gods lived in Arah, Abaddon was studying the elder dragons. He may have found the cauldrons, and tapped in to the power of the dragons. Taking these cauldrons and magic from the dragons into his realm, he made the Foundry of Failed Creations, where he started doing what Inquest is doing now – experimenting with the dragon energy. Somewhere between that and the events of the Guild Wars, he succeeded in creating his own minions through that study – the titans. When you look at the different kinds of titans he had, they were made of fire and stone, of ice, of flesh… now does that not seem familiar?

There’s a couple problems with your theory:

1. Indications point to the Titans being creations of Dhuum. The Fury is the one in charge of making the titans, and it is a general of Dhuum.
2. Titans are created by twisting souls. The appearance they take is based on their environment.
3. Titans are said to have existed eons ago in Tyria and are as old as the Forgotten race. This would mean that they’re older than your theory would credit them to be.
4. The Foundry of Failed Creations is called such not because of the titans, as many believe, but because it was sundered by the Fury when it broke free, twisting it into mimicries of reality but failed to make proper mimicries.

BrunoBRS.5178:

none of the branded creatures, as far as i know, has the power to turn anything into other branded creatures, and the brand itself is not expanding, implying kralk is the only one that can brand stuff and burn land causing crystallic formations.

You need to play more in Iron Marches and Fields of Ruin then.

Because 1) The Brand itself is expanding according to NPCs. and 2) the Branded do corrupt other beings.

BrunoBRS.5178:

the arts and crafts part was a tongue in cheek comment about how the flame legion did not make the cauldron, they found it. the obvious question then would be “who made it?”.

The titans gave it to them – maybe the titans made it, or maybe the mursaat or jotun or heck even the dwarves (wouldn’t be the first time the dwarves made something out of the dragons’ magic/blood/body).

It was never once said that the Flame Legion made the original Cauldron of Cataclysm. The charr likely made all those copies, but the original is the question.

BrunoBRS.5178:

also, one last thing about the difference between searing and kralk: kralkatorrik burns things, and those things turn into crystals. searing magic uses the crystals to burn stuff. it’s the opposite process. in one, crystals cause the burning, and in the other, the burning causes the crystals to sprout. kralk’s crystals, as far as we know, do NOT burn anything.

Technically with the Searing, it’s burning and crystals at the same time. Just like some of the Branded, including the Shatterer, actually.

BrunoBRS.5178:

and there’s the fact that searing magic didn’t turn anyone into branded creatures either. if it was kralk’s magic that was being used, then we’d have had ascalonian branded walking around for much longer. “it wasn’t kralk himself that used his branding powers” doesn’t stick either, because as we know, none of the other dragons need to personally be the agent of corruption, as long as it’s done with their magic (with varying degrees of effort involved, but i’d imagine the power to brand the land would be more than enough)

If Angel’s interview is to be believed, then the Elder Dragons’ magic while hibernating isn’t corruptive in the least.

But I like how you contradict yourself there, even though your initial statement was wrong.

-more in next post-

Some miniatures are actually pets (the Black Moa Chick from GW1, and I presume, the Spring Minis in GW2). But yeah, the minis are mainly toys (not only the Gray Giant, but there’s also the Tixx/Toxx Wintersday stuff).

As to the whole essence amount… that’s mechanics.

Thalador.4218:

If Glint, the gods, or the elder races had known where the Elder Dragons were, they would’ve made a pre-emptive strike – or at least started preparing a way to destroy them. Glint had a spear made of Kralkatorrik’s spine, which is capable of piercing dragonhide and killing them. Maybe weapons forged of Kralky can hurt Kralky alone, and the other dragons have to be battled with weapons made of their own parts, but Kralkatorrik could’ve easily been slain had they known where he was hibernating.

And that’s exactly what I was saying. They might have known of their existence, just not their location of hibernation.

You presume that they had the spear at the time. Glint could have broken a spine off of Kralkatorrik’s back while he was in hibernation, spending centuries to put it into a spear weapon for others to wield.

Obsidian.1328:

Orrrr(no pun intended)…very relevant? Coleridge would enjoy a laugh over a pint at the level of suspension of disbelief in some of these forums. The cognitive dissonance created by ANet2.0 with the lore is almost entirely a function of a different writing staff. And if one can’t bring oneself to include that variable in the equation, there’s really no point in a mature discussion.

You’re claiming that the gods didn’t know of the Elder Dragons because in writing the Elder Dragons didn’t exist yet and that’s why they never made mention of it.

And it is true that the ED didn’t exist in the writing at the time. However, that doesn’t mean the Six Gods didn’t know of them in retrospective addition to the lore.

That’s why your argument is irrelevant. You’re ignoring the retroactivity of additions to lore. And honestly, I think you’re the one preventing a mature discussion because you simply turn every lore discussion you ever enter into a case of “lol Anet sucks at lore writing” or “the two games are utterly different in lore” – but the thing is, the latter is most definitely the case (the former’s just an opinion, so there’s no point in arguing against such a thing). Because while it may be different people writing the lore now – though not entirely – it is the same lore, just being expanded in retroactivity as well. Which is typically good, otherwise you’d never go into the history of the world. If they didn’t do such, Abaddon wouldn’t exist in the lore.

But discussing this is a moot point because quite frankly, you’re perhaps more stubborn and bullheaded than I am and I’ve already explained to you how even GW1 – even Prophecies – had done the very same thing that GW2 does.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

As far as I could see, Zhaitan is indeed the upper part of a dragon, with the lower half of his body replaced with tails (almost like entrails hanging behind his torso).

And once we return to Orr in the living story, we’ll be getting a new meta boss, Zhaitan’s missing lower body from the dungeon:

The kitten of Zhaitan.

Faowri.4159:

The Faren cutscene was the best thing about the whole instance IMO

Oh god, his expressions… I almost fell out of my chair laughing.

As to the “glitchiness” of the first part – Jennah was doing a typical “talking emote” NPCs can do, and for me her mouth was moving (problem with that ‘talking emote’ is that the mouth moves on its own, and then you have the voice-mouthing so often enough you got them flapping their jaws twice as much than needed), but Scarlet’s wasn’t.

I loved the showing of the Twisted machines’ activation. That was superbly done.

cheshirefox.7026:

let me take this opportunity to say the Marjory Delaqua Diary was possibly the worse game cinematic i’ve ever witnessed.. props to the people who worked on it, but i simply can’t relate to the final product

Concur, it was well done but it just broke the flow of GW2’s feeling to me.

DR is set up as a place which is all bright and charming although with crime, but that cinematic was going the typical 1920s “dark and danky city of crime and corrupt police” vibe. Felt way to out of place for me to really feel it.

Tuomir.1830:

There is no indication that the Dream would be the reason the sylvari are immune to the corruption.

Actually there is. Three points:

1. Only the things tied to the Dream of Dreams (aka sylvari) have shown to be immune to corruption physically. The question really depends on if the White Stag is also immune, and if Malyck’s brethren are not.
2. The Dream of Dreams functions very much like the Mists, even the portal to the DoD in A Light in the Darkness is the same kind as the ones going into the Mists.
3. The Forgotten, which hold ties to the Mists, have magic that’s immune to corruption.

Connect the three dots and you have “things tied to the Mists may be resistant/immune to the twisting effect of draconic energies; and this includes things tied to the Dream of Dreams.”

Plunder.8195:

Maybe the sylvari are the minions of Mordemoth, but are “uncorrupted” by the druids.

Explain Malyck then.

I would greatly disagree with the notion that “the future is an alternate reality” – a possible future doesn’t make it an alternate reality in all situations.

For example, the situation in which that possible future utterly and fully disappears from all existence once the timeline goes on a different path results in no alternate reality. There’d be one timeline, but it can change.

Or I should say, the future isn’t a physical alternate reality necessarily. It all depends on whether or not that future still “exists” after our own timeline goes a different direction.

And for all we know, the Grand High Sovereign’s own “present” (aka that possible future) disappeared once he stepped through the portal and changed the timeline.

Which is what I mean by the fact that the Infinity Ball doesn’t prove the existence of alternate realities. Just possibilities, which are all theoretical and not concrete ideas.

There are many theories about how alternate realities could work, and it seems to me that you’re trying to apply them when there’s nothing to really say such things exist. Now, if the Grand High Sovereign were to have returned to that very same future (with us knowing that he actually accomplished that), then yes, you’d be right.

So in the end, we have no concrete proof that alternate realities exist, simply because we don’t know if where the Grand High Sovereign still exists once that future was avoided in our reality.

That’s very nitpickery over wording that probably didn’t get looked over with immense scrutiny.

Besides, to the Grand High Soverieng, it is another world. Just the past world. It’s outright stated several times that they were looking into the future and in the Grand High Sovereign’s own line that you quoted proves him to be coming from the future. He says the technology doesn’t exist yet – meaning that he knows it would become invented and that he specifically came to a point in time where it has not yet been invented. E.g., he traveled to the past.

If he merely hoped parallel timelines to a different reality, then he couldn’t possibly know that they weren’t invented and let alone if they weren’t that they would be which by your own nitpickery of the lines, shows that he knows they would be.

Same thing for if it were a case of “for every choice possible, a new dimension is created” – if the choices that led to the steam creature’s creation in that dimension occurred, without observing the world beforehand he wouldn’t know they weren’t existing there and he certainly wouldn’t know if they ever would without his intervention – which his wording implies that they would without his appearance.

Then there’s Zojja’s line:

Zojja: If you turn into a dimension-travelling dictator from the future, I’ll have to put you down like a rabid skelk.

I don’t see what crafts and arts or pots comes into play with the discussion of charr shamans siphoning power from a hibernating Kralkatorrik to empower the Searing Cauldrons.

As to the coloring… Branded use purple fire and purple lightning.

And for EoD’s mentionings… it also makes a lot of mention of black. But oddly enough, not once are the branded called purple. Makes me wonder just how early in development it was being written.

The crab is actually fairly unique. The closest GW1 model would be the necromancer (Destroyer of Hopes) but that’s very different still.

That angle of Zhaitan gives a very different interpretation of his body. I always noticed that he was only an upper body + tails, which made me think he was related to the Bone Dragons, but I never got a look at that left hand of his being very… hand like and not claw like at all.

But still his body’s shape is very much a typical dragon, just minus the waist and hind legs. The rest is just more or less mutated and twisted, but overall and generally very much typical european dragon shape.

And how is a wurm with spikes any weirder than… well, Zhaitan?

BrunoBRS.5178:

eh, a redesign isn’t a retcon. it’s for the best (primordus looks pretty standard fare dragon, and ANet seemingly decided they now want the EDs to be the opposite of that), and it’s not really affecting the lore itself. everything we did in EotN would still be validated, primordus would still be that statue, they just made him look different in the new game.

and eew no to your lava centipede/mantis thing. that would be gross. and the pact would have to devise a boot big enough to squish it. i think jormag will cover the “snake dragon” look. or chinese dragon, whatever you prefer to call it.

We only really see a head and neck of Primordus so we cannot say it looks like a standard dragon (plus, it seems pretty obvious with the dragon champions and Zhaitan that they’ve lost the “not typical dragon” appearance. Well, somewhat on Zhaitan – he’s more like "half of a typical dragon with a hydra mouth).

And the thought I had in mind wasn’t like a centipede or mantis in the least. :P But now I’m wanting that even more, since it grosses people out.

Naming aside – the Destroyer of Earth aka Destroyer Troll (god I so wish they kept the GW1 naming system for destroyers >.>) look like the Destroyer of Sinew. While the Destroyer Harpy look like the Destroyer of Flesh with wings.

So wish those GW1 destroyers returned. Especially the Destroyer of Bones and Destroyer of Thoughts models.

Speaking of old GW1 destroyers, it’s kind of interesting about them. Destroyers are said to mimic the living that’s seen… which means those destroyers primarily mimic the kinds of creatures that existed in the last rise of ED (since Primordus was still sleeping and there weren’t many lifeforms the Great Destroyer saw before sending these armies out). Becomes kind of curious as to what they could be mimicing (the mesmer was pointed out to me to look kind of mursaat-ish once).

If the Nightmare Court were Risen, then they’d be hailing Zhaitan like the actual risen mooks.

The Nightmare, akittens basic most open form, is negative emotions and experiences. Fear, for example, is what the Nightmare is. Faolain and Caithe seeing the Nightmare for the first time in Orr may simply be that they saw something so horrific that it frightened them both greatly – and Faolain went towards that feeling of fear to explore it, and exploit it.

I think if there’s a tie with an Elder Dragon with the Nightmare, it began after Faolain’s initial exposure to the Nightmare since it is said she wasn’t fully drawn into the Nightmare yet – it was Cadeyrn who did such. So it may very well be that Cadeyrn went out and made contact with Mordremoth’s influence. Would explain how his personality changes from being a spoiled brat with “we will become who we are without the tablet!” to “we will cover the world in pain.” that happens in the old sylvari blog post here.

Tuomir.1830:

However, presumably no sylvari had seen Zhaitan at that point (and I don’t see how Anet could have had fitted him in there), so the fear other sylvari held, especially fear towards the dragon, manifested in a twisted dream, the nightmare hounds in the dream formed in a similar manner, though not from such specific fears.

Caithe had seen him. She was in fact the only being who saw him and lived until the Pact’s actions.

Tuomir.1830:

And regarding the hounds, they too are made by the Pale Tree, it would stand to reason that they too are immune to dragon corruption in the same way. The nightmare court turns them to nightmare by putting them through pain and suffering until they embrace it, just like they do with captured sylvari.

However there’s a lot of differences between the sylvan hounds and the sylvari – sylvan hounds don’t seem to learn anything from the Dream of Dreams and may not even be tied to it (which is, IMO, why the sylvari are immune – their tie to the DoD – which means that Malyck is not immune), and they form as pups rather than full grown adults.

Klawlyt.6507:

I’m not sure if they come right out and say multiverse in GW2, but in 1, I’m fairly certain it was explicitly stated that the Hall of Heroes was where heroes from across a multitude of realities (or something similar) joined to do battle. In other words, the Korean servers were in-lore alternate universes from the the NA servers and so on.

Multiple worlds. But that doesn’t say much.

Though the lore on Lord Odran does mention it being a multiverse.

But it’s never really said that we really saw named individuals from these “other worlds” or if these other worlds even held humans.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Actually, technically, the Infinity Ball storyline makes a point of stating that what was accessed wasn’t your character’s realities future, but a different one. Relevant quotes:

-snip quotes-

So alternate realities do exist- there just isn’t much at all known about how they work.

No, all that says is that they come from a possible future. All it proves is that the future is not set in stone – just like we saw during A Light in the Darkness – and that time travel is possible to effectively alter the timeline, just like how it happens in Terminator, where each time a robot is sent back in time the timeline gets a little different.

They did not come from an alternate present, but a possible future. The two places do not exist simultaneously.

For all we know, the second that the Grand High Sovereign stepped through that portal, his “future” disappeared forever.

BrunoBRS.5178:

i think people cling too much to the fact that both kralk and the titans (or rather, the searing cauldrons) burn stuff up with crystals. that’s like saying eles tap into primordus’ power when they use lava font, or that necros are disciples of zhaitan.

It deals a hell of a lot more than just crystals that burn stuff.

It should be noted that the smaller GW2 “Searing Crystals” are purple. The Searing Effigy uses purple flames. Etc.

It’s the fact that both use purple crystals and purple flames, and the fact that the Flame Legion enchanted the many Searing Cauldrons with some sort of magic from somewhere… and what was residing right in charr territory at the time? Kralkatorrik.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

However, the crystals that came down during the Searing were kind of blue, mixed with small amounts of purple. But still mostly blue.

This seems to be a sort of retcon done, since the two Searing Crystals left in GW2 are purple.

Though there’s also the fact that Glint and her crystals are blue.

It’s not where Jormag woke from – he’s said to have awakened in the arctic seas up north. However, he did shatter the Far Shiverpeaks when he woke up/shortly after.

As to why Zhaitan was buried – I expect the same reason why Kralkatorrik was partially buried. He slept for so long that he ended up sinking. After all, his corruption does result in swamplands, and things sink over time and in swamps so overtime while in a swamp? Yeah.

It’s possible as well that he went digging for the Bloodstone snack. Or fell asleep mid-flight and landed in a crater with the dirt falling back on top of him. :P

BrunoBRS.5178:

if anything, primordus is the one elder dragon i’m looking forward to the most to see how he looks like. we already know that ANet wouldn’t think twice about discarding a previous design of an ED if they found something they think is better, and GW1’s engine had several limitations (like age), so i don’t expect him to be anything like what we’ve seen in EotN.

The difference between Zhaitan’s model change and changing Primordus’ is that… we actually saw Primordus in game with it being told that it is Primordus. And because we were told that’s Primordus, they cannot pull a Jormag and redesign because the thing we saw in GW1 was “never actually said to be Jormag” (though I would have far preferred that to be the “core” of the dragon, covered in ice to make claws and wings). They can redesign him since it’s a new game, but overall it’d end up looking similar.

… But then again, they’ve already performed blatant retcons ever since the Living Story began (as opposed to retconing with in-universe explanations which are far superior), so I guess there’s no stopping them…

As to how it’d look – I spent some time looking and it didn’t really seem like he had shoulders at all, meaning I don’t think he even has forearms/forelegs, let alone wings. Instead he has these spikes that look like of line a collar but I wouldn’t doubt that once the stone breaks, they’d act like tendrils to help move him about.

I’d imagine more of a tendril-covered wurm or snake like dragon that pushes himself around using said tendrils, as well as attacking with them.

I just hope that next year we get a focus on the next Elder Dragon rather than more Scarlet stuff. Make her disappear for a while, leaving us to wonder “whatever happened to Scarlet?” Then make her return with some other once-fled enemies after the next Elder Dragon’s fought and killed! (like returning with the Sinister Triad, Faolain, Caudecus, and Lazarus).

I would presume no. But then again, we’re told that they were after his life as well.

BrunoBRS.5178:

his golem in caudecus manor went haywire and almost killed everyone, himself included :|

Uh, no it didn’t? He fled once he activated the golem because his plan was figured out (well, he thought it was). The golem worked as intended, first teleporting the Queen and some other guests away and then trying to kill everyone but the Separatists.

It was the Separatists that killed Uzolan.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

I was under the impression the Nightmare Court had created the nightmare, but I do misunderstand things upon initial encounter.

Faolain and Caithe were the first sylvari to ever witness the nightmare – what exactly it is, is left unknown – I recall seeing that it was when the two were in Orr that they encountered it first. Caithe turned away from it, Faolain embraced it but did not fully fall to it.

Later on Cadeyrn being the spoiled pompous bookah he is, made the Nightmare Court and brought Faolain fully into the Nightmare, where she then took reign over the Nightmare Court. Somewhere along the line, it seems that Faolain likely messed with Cadeyrn’s mind – because when he’s fought in Twilight Arbor, not only is he no longer a warrior but now a mesmer, but he appears as a fanatical followers of Faolain (it was said that he resented Faolain taking his power and position which matches his spoiled personality perfectly). That or Anet screwed up Cadeyrn’s writing when doing the dungeon. But given Faolain’s personality and what Caithe says about her in the dungeon – that Faolain twists people to do her bidding and then uses them to mess with others – it seems equally likely to be what I proposed (and the better writing outcome).

This is an interesting subject I’ve been looking into for a while. It has both pros and cons for there to be more Elder Dragons – and how many is debatable at that.

Cons for more dragons

• Jotun only mention of a “sextant of swallows” over multiple cycles, indicating global knowledge.
• Only three – possibly four – dragons actually went to sleep in continental Tyria: Primordus, Kralkatorrik, Zhaitan, and possibly Mordremoth. Jormag was much further north, and the DSD is much further south, meaning that the six known ED are a bit spread out. Jormag’s influence in Tyria is due to him pushing south since his awakening.
• Due to the previous cycle, all magic in the world was gathered at one point – in continental Tyria. This would undoubtably draw the Elder Dragons there.

Pros for more dragons

• Talk to Trahearne in Cear Aval after completing Victory or Death. He says that dragons are awakening across the world.
• In an interview prior to release with Jeff and Ree, there was a comment that basically said “Glint, Rotscale, and Kuunavang are like each other but also not like each other, in a similar fashion to how the Elder Dragons are both similar and different” – this implies that Rotscale and Kuunavang were also dragon champions (though Rotscale was raised by Stone Summit so he was a killed dragon champion that was raised again, and oddly made of bone… fun fact: Rotscale is continuously moving west after revival; dragon minions tend to head to their dragon unless ordered otherwise (e.g., the branded always moving south to Kralkatorrik)… and Mordremoth supposedly lies to the west).
• It should be noted that while the jotun make mention of six Elder Dragons in several cycles, it’s never said which six. Jormag, Primordus, and Zhaitan’s names all come from dwarven mythology and Kralkatorrik comes from Glint herself – the jotun never made mention of which six are the “sextant of swallowers”. For all we know, they were talking about six Elder Dragons that not one of which we have seen or heard of.
• An addendum to point one: who says “sextant” refers to six individuals and not six groups? There could be, for all we know, multiple Elder Dragons that fall into the domain of “fire” – e.g., an Elder Fire Dragon, Elder Lava Dragon, Elder Steam Dragon; and similarly multiple dragons falling into the domain of “earth” – e.g., Elder Vegetation Dragon (aka Mordremoth), Elder Crystal Dragon (Kralkatorrik), Elder Rock Dragon, Elder Metal Dragon… In such an otion, the “sextant” could be referring to six element types of dragons – fire, air, earth, water, ice/aether/metal (depending on your mythology for the last element).

Personally, I hope they don’t go the route of “endless Elder Dragons” – it’d be tiresome to find so many different dragons. Though it’d be interesting to see all the various kinds of corruption it could make. If they do go such a route, I hope that they lose the “they are dragons” and go with “they are eldritch abominations, many of which simply look like dragons” – which would further go with the “sextant of swallowers” notion.

I was afraid this thread would be another “sylvari on a whole are dragon minions and the pale tree is a dragon champion!!1!1!!11!!eleven!” thread.

My own theory and research – written in an in-universe perspective for flavor – can be found here — with much older research and theorizing in this thread which is fairly incomplete compared to now. In the former, I didn’t include the DoD experience since it was in-universe and at the time couldn’t think of how to include that sensibly (I blame Thalador for convincing me to write it from an in-universe perspective. :P)

I would similarly agree with most in the OP but disagree with the Cadeyrn bit and most importantly the notion of “freeing the sylvari from the Ventari tablet” – Malyck shows that the Nightmare Court is most definitely not the natural form of sylvari, so Cadeyrn’s direction is just wrong. As Thalador said, Cadeyrn was a spoiled brat when he made the Nightmare Court – a rebellious youth who just says “whatever my parents say, I’ll do the opposite!” and all because he didn’t get the attention he wanted.

Do note that sylvari are immune to corruption, however. So either Mordremoth has found a way around it, or they are merely being influenced and not touched by corruptive magic (since such Elder Dragon corruptive magic ends up killing the sylvari before they could be corrupted).

Overall, the Shadow of the Dragon is just a minor piece of influence – the Nightmare Hounds, the whole lore around the hounds that is, is far stronger piece of evidence.

Thalador.4218:

The gods were not aware of their location. There’s a difference. (Yes, I’m not denying the possibility of them not knowing of the dragons at all, but that one line from Randall – who’s starting to go nuts by that point – isn’t to convey the Six were ignorant of the ED.) Even if it sounds a bit stupid that the elder races found no trace of the dragons after they’d returned from hiding (Kralkatorrik was half-visible… >.>), it is still the case. If the races didn’t know – including the gods’ most loyal allies, the Forgotten – why should’ve they know? Especially when they came after the end of the previous dragon war.

Technically, we only know the Six Gods didn’t know of _Zhaitan_’s location. They may have known of Kralkatorrik and thought it best not to tamper with it. They may have known of all Elder Dragons, just not where they were.

Glint seems to still hold a tie to Kralkatorrik, seeing as she can tell when he’s about to rise, so I’d imagine he’d be the only Elder Dragon they would know where it is, regardless of where it slumbered.

Obsidian.1328:

The Elder Dragon’s didn’t even exist in lore until Eye of the North was written. And seeing as the Six basically went on an open-ended vacation after Nightfall, it’s hardly a surprise they never mentioned them before. Because the last time anyone had contact with them, the ED’s weren’t even in the game.

Irrelevant. Orr and Arah lore states the Six Gods didn’t know of the Elder Dragons’ location (or rather, as I said, Zhaitan’s location) and leaves it up in the air whether they knew of them at all.

Lack of statement doesn’t mean lack of knowledge, btw.

Obsidian.1328:

On a bright note, Lyssa might grow to like Kralky’s style.

Doubtful. She rather liked bringing joy and beauty to people. Kralkatorrik does the opposite.

lakdav.3694:

I wonder more about how can such a big thing as Primordus move through the Depths without making one hell of a big molehill on the surface everywhere he goes. Sure the Depths has some very wide areas as we saw in Eye of the North, but not so much or wide enough to warrant effortless movement.

Zhaitan’s awakening raised a sunken peninsula from the freaking sea when his portfolio is far from invoking seizmic activites. How come the dragon most affiliated with seizmic activities can show so little side-effects on the surface?

I figure it attests to two things:

1) He’s very deep underground. And I do mean very.

2) He’s probably the smallest of the Elder Dragons. Going off of the GW1 model size, he’s large, but not as large as Kralkatorrik at all.

3) He likely melts the earth around him, thus creating solidified tunnels bordered by obsidian or other volcanic hardened rock. Thus he isn’t pushing the ground about, like a mole or even a drill, but rather more like a laser tunneler device. Since all that dirt gets melted down – perhaps turned into destroyers – it just hollows out and nothing more. I argue that it solidies into hardened rock because otherwise the place would collapse (it has been suspected that Primordus’ burrowing is the cause of the Great Collapse and those reported sounds being destroyers).

Zhaitan, on the other hand, was probably far closer to the surface and, to boot, is larger and doesn’t deal with fire aka melting things.

As Thalador says, the Orrian undead invading Kryta under Khilbron’s reign seems to be what that line is about.

Thalador.4218:

Ironically, it fits the Orr’s “rise” under Zhaitan, too.

Ironically, other lines fit too with GW2’s time:

All shall be revealed in time, and with the revelation comes the end!

The history of the gods’ truth to be revealed, and with it comes the rise of the Elder Dragons (though it was reverse in most cases, the Jotun path seems to indicate the six Elder Dragon’s rise which may be the final push to what causes the true repetition of the cycle).

Alternatively, the reveal of the truth behind the Great Dwarf heralded the end.

Beware the unseen enemy!

Return of Lazarus. Rise of the sixth Elder Dragon. Scarlet who’s forces build up unnoticed (especially if MA are tied to her).

Follow the Prince! Though he is doomed, his is the only way to salvation!

This one doesn’t work as well as t he others, since there’s no active prince unless you count Trahearne (a firstborn, son of the sylvari leader (thus “queen”; thus making him a “prince”)) if he dies, or Wade Sammuelsson as heir to the throne.

Trust not the treacherous man, we have been warned!

Caudecus! Return of Lazarus is foretold! :P

An opening will be given to the disciples of the Unseen. The peaks and valleys of the Shiverpeaks will be painted in blood.

Kryta, embroiled with civil war, will see the return of the White Mantle.

The Shiverpeaks are covered in the battles of the dredge, Molten Alliance, and krait (in Mount Maelstrom/Timberline Falls).

At this time, the Ascendants will rise, and the way to the Door will be clear.

Should the Crystal Desert open, and the risen clear from the Ring of Fire…

Naturally, while this is fun and all, Glint tells us the Flameseeker Prophecies refers to the events of the first game, but still humorous to see the few more connections.

The Mursaat shall return!

On a related note:

I’m kind of curious when the titans were last on the world of Tyria, since its implied they were there once “eons” ago.

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

From the asura infinity ball story we have confirmed the existence of alternate worlds. So it fits in easily to just say it’s an alternate world.

Technically, all the asura infinity ball storyline proves is timetravel is possible. That shows a possible future not an alternate reality.

To quote the Pale Tree during A Light in the Darkness (which is nearly the same thing as the infinity ball storyline except one is a vision and one is time travel):

“But be warned—the future can change in the blink of an eye.”

The existence of alternate realities – as in, alternate presents – has yet to be confirmed.

Anyways, regarding WvW’s lore – it’s fairly left in the air. All we’re told is that there are “evil” and unmerciful forces threatening Tyria. We don’t know what those forces are, lore-wise. It wouldn’t be hard to say that they are indeed alternate realities (alternate presents), since the Mists is said to be containing a multiverse – which usually means multiple realities of the same universe in fictions (but not necessarily so). The Mists also is capable of recreating pasts, presents, and futures in little pockets of reality (aka the explanation behind all sPvP and Fractals of the Mists maps).

As for mention of the Hall of Heroes… outright no, but there is a norn mention of the hall of spirits – which by Jora’s description in GW1, is the same thing as the Hall of Heroes.

I share views with Leon. I think that it’s hanging just simply due to the depth of t he hole…

Which makes me really want to see the Pavilion (not the gauntlet part though) have its chains break and just tumble on downward, stuffed full of haywire Watchknights and watch it go spinning down like a falling enlarged coin until CRAkitten lands, diagonally and viewable, on the ground below.

Alternatively, it may be that having supports underneath that are strong and large enough is just far more expensive and wouldn’t show off the human’s tenacity of “we’re still kicking!” that the Pavilion celebration is meant to show. Still want to see the kitten fall though. I am no fan of the Pavilion. And then cover the hole with a Canthan district, one that goes down in a spiral along the sides of the Great Collapse, with the Gauntlet hanging mid-air admist other arts district fitting things – like stages and circus shows!

I cannot really add anything that Thalador and Malafide haven’t said already, truth be told.

All Elder Dragons are slow in taking action, Zhaitan just had a head start. It seems that 150 years (the time Jormag’s been awake) is the typical preparation timeframe – Primordus just isn’t seen because all of his actions are underground, not at the surface. He’s held back by stone dwarves, but has taken over six asuran cities that are on par to Rata Sum (only one of which we know the name of – Quora Sum), and his minions are seen across the whole continent of Tyria – from Brisban Wildlands and Metrica Province to the Dominion of Winds and Kessex Hills and Harathi Hinterlands to Lornar’s Pass and Dredgehaunt Cliffs, to Mount Maelstrom, and even so far east as the Blazeridge (as per Edge of Destiny). Of all dragons, Primordus is the most spread out of them. It was also told to us – as Thalador said – in an interview that Primordus has been clearing out tracks of land underground since his awakening.

Honestly, Primordus can literally pop up out of the ground, fully ready for slaughter, at any moment for all we know. It all depends on a single question:

How are the stone dwarves fairing?

Deified.7520:

Kralk- Fought DE and is probably recovering. Currently in the Crystal Desert. His minions are also fighting Palwa Joko’s Undead legions.

Two things wrong here.

Firstly, we don’t know where he is – he may have fled the Crystal Desert, given how he left the battlefield without creating the Dragonbrand and his minions are moving south and east – it’s possible he fled eastward, and is now residing north of Elona.

Secondly, nothing – absolutely nothing – says or indicates that the Branded are even in visible range of Joko’s legions.

Deified.7520:

Jormag- Currently in the northern shiverpeaks. Not sure what he is doing. Many are fleeing. Most of the Norn and Kodan are gone from the Northern Shiverpeaks I believe.

He’s currently pushing south, in the beginning stages of his true invasion it seems given how the kodan arrival is recent, and the Priory lvl 30-40 storyline deals with Sons of Svanir making bigger moves – it’s also said that Svanir’s Dome and the large Svanir outpost in Frostgorge (forget name) are recent additions. Most of Jormag’s influence seen in the game are rather recent, actually.

There was no ceasefire with the charr at that time, actually. And there were more guards and usual, even. The thing is… Kralkatorrik himself broke the walls with a few bolts of lightning – it wasn’t the branded who broke it, they just went through the opening their master created.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

But the fact that there are planets and moons and stars, means there would also be space. As in, no air, no gravity, and pretty cold.

That is where you’re wrong.

There can be air. There can be a lot of things. It just has to be invisible to the naked eye is all. We don’t know anything about what’s so far up from Tyria’s surface, so we cannot say that just because we see stars and we know that the Tyrians think there are planets, that there must be “nothing inbetween.”

Besides, you’re outright wrong to call the Mists an alternate reality. Because the Mists is, in actuality, all around us in the game. It’s best to see via the Defend the Mists norn storyline what I mean – but twice you go into the Mists, through a portal that lands you in the exact same space, everything just looks different. And this follows through with the notion that the Mists “touch all things” from the excerpt I posted before.

The Mists isn’t so much a place, as it is where places reside within – much like outer space. While we’re on Earth, we’re still in outer space to a degree; similarly, while people are on Tyria, they’re still in the Mists to an equal degree if not more.

I’d go with Leon’s words – that the Mists is best described as the multiverse on a whole – more than anything else. And certainly more than a mere “alternate dimension.” The Mists contains alternate dimensions – as well as Tyria’s own – but it is not an alternate dimension in of itself.

Nike.2631:

I’m just suggesting she can’t leave because she is herself a product of the fractals.

When you postulate infinity, there HAS TO BE someone trying to get out .

In an interview with Scott McGough by TowerTalk, he says that Dessa found that lab in the Mists and is psychologically trapped (e.g., she convinces herself that it is not possible for her to leave) because she’s afraid that if she left, she’d never return to that anomaly of a laboratory capable of creating and observing fractals of the Mists.

SpeedFiend.4521:

Varesh attempted to free Abaddon from the Realm of Torment (also part of the Underworld, there’s quite a few parts it seems) and out from the Vortex came his sword and gauntlet.

Two corrections:

Firstly, the Realm of Torment is Abaddon’s former realm. Though it is tied to the Underworld and Cobiah calls it “Grenth’s realm of torment” it is not part of the Underworld – and honestly, I find it odd that Grenth rules there and not Kormir (mainly given the gw.dat entry for the Redeemed Realm which is the Realm of Torment reformed under Kormir’s rule – but given the novels’ mention of the realm of torment I guess the Redeemed Realm exists not).

Secondly, at the Mouth of Torment it’s actually Abaddon’s sword, gauntlet, and mask going into the vortex – they’re buried under the earth and as the fight with Varehs progresses they get unburied and pulled into the vortex. Those three things seem to be his original gear that he wore during his fall.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I wonder if it can work that way. Currently the only examples we have of stabilizing fractals, involve resolving a conflict (boss battle).

If you talk to Dessa, she explains that the act of “stablizing” is in fact clearing out the hostile inhabitants. Overtime they’ll return and thus need to be re-“stabilized.”

I was thinking the same thing, however, it’s not entirely clear if the Forgotten were around when the Bloodstone was made. It’s still not fully clear on whether or not the Forgotten did in fact come from the Mists or not.

If they did, then that may be related to how they have magic immune to the Elder Dragons’ corruption – same with the sylvari, should the Dream of Dreams be as I theorize and be a portion of the Mists. It would mean that the Mists and things directly tied to them have resistance to the Elder Dragons’ corruption (further support: the Wolf Havroun kidnapped by the Sons of Svanir was not forcefully corrupted for some unknown reason, but tortured into using the portals – it would have been far better off for Jormag if they corrupted the Wolf Havroun instead, so why didn’t they?).

Goatjugsoup.8637:

Edge of destiny makes it seem like she mind kitten d him imo but I think we are supposed to believe that it is a genuine love connection.

It’s just bad writing. A dev said sometime after EoD’s release that the love is both genuine and mutual.

Logan was a man who helped do what was previously impossible (or nearly so) – kill dragon champions. She called him because mere minions were assaulting.

And truth be told, Logan didn’t do much. Even after he freed prisoners to help in the fight, the forces were losing.

Rest is as Aaron said.

Although there’s hints to Lyssa being omnom’d by Zhaitan if the Risen were to be believed, we know Grenth is living for sure thanks to the Cathedral of Silence personal story step. However, the risen lie a lot so it is unlikely.

Btw, the Priestess of Dwayna speaks if her as if she’s living.

However, a God’s power is indestructible. If it’s vessel is killed, it goes chaotic and threatens to blow up all nearby existence as seen at the end of Nightfall. Zhaitan gave off no such thing.

IMO, what they should have done was to just have all these updates – at least starting with The Lost Shores and going into F&F (e.g., skipping Halloween and Wintersday) – was have those as a continuation of the personal story (The Lost Shores would have needed instances but that’d have been better than the lagfests we were given).

Their current approach means that they cannot have any character development shown with anyone who is part, even minorly, of the personal story. This means no killing (which IMO is good since they killed far too many NPCs in Orr) and no turning evil or even bettering the faults in their personality. Logan must always show to be some namdy-pamdy Jennah’s-boy like he’s shown at the beginning of the personal story… because what if a person doing the Queen’s Jubilee is not past the Caudecus Manor point? But at the same time… that in of itself conflicts with the PS since if they’re past it but not past Zhaitan’s death yet – well, conflict! Logan shouldn’t be in Kryta yet is.

Just like how it’s confusing that the whole of Destiny’s Edge seems to have split up once more after Zhaitan’s death… The biggest problem, IMO, is that Anet considers anything you can do, to be happening “in the now” so I’ve been told. Meaning that while you can have done all the stuff in 1325 storyline wise… you can do it all in 1326!

Ludovicus.7980:

Of course. I’m not saying that this is the only way things could turn to be. I’m just saying that it is a plausible one. There are hints:
hint1: Verata was investigating on permanent minions
hint2: Verata’s cult had a base near the tower in GW1
hint3: The elementals in town are suspected to be animated by human souls.

Does that mean that it’s all because of Verata’s cult. Of course not.
But for me it is a strong possibility.

1) Elementals are not minions. Not even close.
2) Galrath and Marron trying to openly get access to the tower is a stronger hint, we don’t even know if Verata had interest in the tower.
3) Not really. All we know is that people are invited to live in the tower and are never heard from again, and that the elementals seem different than your typical mindless ones – seemingly forced against their will to serve.

There’s a far stronger tie to the White Mantle than to Verata (aside from two Justiciars – or rather, a Justiciar and someone suspected to be such – trying to gain access to the Wizard’s Tower, there’s also the fact that the White Mantle used the same ploy of special invitations to people who’re never seen of again (the Chosen being given teachings by the Grand Masters in the Temple of the Unseen but in actuality are sacrificed on the bloodstone)).

The possibility is there, yes, but there are many far more likely possibilities. And given how Anet hasn’t been keen on expanding the small tidbits of GW1’s lore – which IMO Verata is part of – I doubt that they’d do so for one.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

That the elementals are being forced to act against their nature, seems clear to me. Especially since one of them occasionally breaks free of it’s enchantment, and is instantly attacked by the others (-or at least, that is how it appears to me. That is speculation on my part).

The situation is that a kid orders two elementals to fight for entertainment. The one who loses flashes green and red (allied and hostile) while invulnerable afterwards, then remains permanently green until where they fight again.

Sorry for returning off-topic. I just had something to add to that, but nothing to add to the whole Zhaitan bit.

Though on the liches, Narcemus is right – thus far, liches do not function the same way as in typical fantasy settings. Despite the Ascended item of Khilbron’s Phylanctry, there’s no evidence that Khilbron, Joko, The Hunter, Mazdak, or Zoldark have such things. And while two are known to still be alive – Zoldark may have been killed, and Khilbron certainly was without destroying such an item. In the GW universe, liches are best described as “unkillable undead” – The Hunter is described in that he just never and cannot die. Joko too. Khilbron was killed because of the bloodstone and the soul batteries taking his soul. Mazdak – and other risen liches – were killed because of Caladbolg being an anti-undead weapon (there are risen liches not fought against with Caladbolg, but they’re in open world events so one can presume they merely return later, never dying like The Hunter). Even Zoldark may make a return, since we don’t do a checkup to ensure he remains dead (same with The Hunter, actually).

I would like to note that Fendi Nin was not a lich. Or at least never said to be one. But yes, the means to kill a lich in the GW universe is to “separate the connection between body and soul.”

I don’t recall the dredge’s dialogue changed… Flame Shaman’s did depending on if you were on a male charr, female charr, or non-charr.

But the whole “she” thing came from the forums, a dev post making a “slip” about it. At least for everyone else. I just remember the dredge saying not to trust the Flame Legion or their silver-tongue city slicker (not exact words mind you).

JBDanger.2603:

Scarlet = Ellen Kiel = Livia.

Why Kiel can’t be from the future or being Livia in disguise.

JBDanger.2603:

Livia is the leader of the shining blade and they are to guard all the kings and queens of kryta? Sure sounds like a plot to me. But then again I’m probably dead wrong lol. But if this is any consolation check this wiki page out about livia http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Livia

Second problem: The Shining Blade is the crown’s guard. They don’t care much for who the crown rests upon, so long that individual is of royal blood.

Thing is, Jennah is the last descendent. And Livia’s no longer the leader of the Shining Blade (openly at least) – Anise, Jennah’s childhoodfriend, is.

Elbegast.6970:

Scarlet = Ellen Kiel = Livia…..'s daughter!

I can see Ellen being Livia’s daughter, though IMO unlikely.

However, I cannot abide the theory that Scarlet=Ellen because that “suspicious stranger” in the opening ceremony is most likely to be Scarlet.

The question is, imo, “is scarlet the personal nemesis, or just an agent?” (My hope is the latter cuz atm, that voice I believe is new and holds no ties to the PC, which makes her not so personal).

Lokheit.7943:

For that to be true, then the father should be something like a rock so Kiel can say she inherited her personality from her father… she is sooooooo far from Livia (or most characters for that matter) that a rock or something similar should be the father to compensate.

Her father was a tree…

It’s why Scarlet aka Kiel can appear to be a sylvari.

/endpoorjoke

It should be noted that the current philosophy of ArenaNet in their approach to the Living Story is “don’t create a paradox” – meaning that they won’t openly admit the PS has passed, but they won’t make the LS as if it hasn’t passed either.

Which makes a whole timefk confusion like what you had and worse.

Who says that the asura can’t build a rocket ship to go to the Mists?

The Mists is established as:

_Before there were humans or dwarves, before there were even worlds or the stars that light the night sky, there was but one thing in the universe—the Mists. The Mists touch all things. They are what binds the universe together, past, present, and future. They are the source of all good and evil, of all matter and knowledge. It is said that all forms of life, no matter how simple or complex, can trace their origins back to this one place. _

The Mists is something that exists between everything – between realms especially. That sounds like outer space to me. It connects multiple dimensions, but doesn’t mean it solely is such.

Also: Look up in the Realm of Torment and what will you see? Stars. The only difference (aethetically) between Tyria’s night sky and the Realm of Torment’s sky is that there is a moon for Tyria.

From my observations – the watchknights don’t die only in zergs. So it’s likely intentional mechanics to make the content slightly tougher for zerging.

I always figured that the “mysterious stranger” was Lazarus – since the gem the stranger provided seemed akin to a bloodstone.

Anyways, a fun fact about that – who that stranger was, was already decided upon at the time it was live. During my Test Krewe days I got into a conversation about it with Linsey (a short one) where she said that who the stranger is was set in stone or some such, just not yet revealed (obviously). Scarlet seems to be someone thought up after GW2’s release (though that’s my speculation based on the development of the living story).

Torvarren.6295:

Some proof driven spoilers:
SpoilerWhen fighting the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan the Eye says "I see in your heart that you have lost someone to Zhaitan. Someone named...(Sieran, Tybalt, Forgal). S/he is waiting for you now, beneath the dragon's wings... ". This seems to point to a future confrontation with Zhaitan in which you will also run into these 3 again. Closure is a good thing.

That fight preludes Zhaitan’s so it’s hardly proof – heavier evidence would be Arah explorable risen still praising Zhaitan as if it were alive still. But that’s still not much.

Either way, the risen are known for their lies and psychological warfare. That line by the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan is one such case – why? Sieran’s a sylvari. Sylvari are immune to dragon corruption. It is fully impossible for Zhaitan to raise Sieran as a risen.

Torvarren.6295:

Spoiler

hide spoiler

People have theories of an elder life dragon being the source of the sylvari. A plant like dragon is what you fight to get out of the dream when you make a sylvari. I never thought this plant dragon was pointing towards sylvari hunt as being to kill Zhaitan.

It would seem to be that the Nightmare court is the natural way for the sylvari to act? Then during a specific sylvari story line you meet a sylvari that is from a different tree than the Pale Tree, but he had a naturally good demeanor it seemed. It will not be the last time we see him.

Now for how this could tie to Orr The Pale tree was grown when a seed from a cave was planted on top of human graves. I see Caladbolg as a seed of the Pale Tree that Trahearne just so happened to plant at the source of Orr, and what is Orr? A mass human grave!

The first part – sylvari being dragon minions on a whole – is baseless conjecture that has so many facts disproving it, fueled by a gross mistake by Wooden Potatoes in his videos.

At best, the Nightmare Court are minions of Mordremoth, corrupted via the Nightmare, which would be his influence in the Dream of Dreams. But nothing points to the sylvari as a whole being dragon minions – and there’s many things countering that (like the sylvari immunity – dragon minions are not immune to other dragons’ corruption as shown via CoE). Most likely scenario if any sylvari is a dragon minion, however, is that the Nightmare Court are merely spreading Mordremoth’s corruption without being corrupted themselves. But do keep in mind that sylvari die when touched by a dragon’s corruption.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Still, that is not how Tyria’s universe is represented in Divinity’s Reach, nor in Cantha.

Erm… I just want to say – those astrological models seen in Nahpui Quarter are not of the solar system – let alone universe. They’re constellations. Specifically of the celestials (it’s just same model reused).

Well, I suppose there’s a chance it’s of the solar system but if so they have a really messed up view of it compared to DR’s orrery.

I’d also like to point out that in the Seer path of Arah explorable, there is what appears to be a huge (destroyed) orrery that differs greatly from the DR one (and is far far larger). Sadly, I don’t think I took the time to take pictures >.< Naturally it didn’t show rotations, but it showed fewer orbs that’re likely to be planets than DR’s. And differently spaced out.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

You’d think that the people who actually study the planets, would try to make an accurate representation of Tyria’s constellation.

Just because they try… doesn’t mean that they do.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

We can be VERY sure that they are actually planets and moons. The people of Tyria seem to think so. They even seem aware of the orbit of various moons around planets. So there has to be space out there.

1. Just because Tyrians think so, doesn’t make it so. GW2 is very heavy on the concept of subjective knowledge.
2. Just because there are other planets, doesn’t mean that the space between them is empty without air or any kind of existence like our outer space.

You’re making presumptions on something based off of something which we hold no knowledge other than an appearance of which isn’t even directly related to the topic – using a man-made model of a solar system to explain what lies between the planets shown in the model. It can very well be that the Mists exists between these planets, rather than “lack of anything” that outer space typically is.

SlyFoxSays.5342:

You’re right. We know nothing of the current emperor. Does that mean that Cantha ended their xenophobia, no. Is there dragons, we don’t know. Its all conjecture.

The fact that so many of you take this beyond fun, is ridiculous. Take it easy guys.

But they may have ended their xenophobia. I mean, take this into consideration:

1) Canthan emperors have a long history of redacting their predecessor’s actions. Just look here to see some prime examples. Usoku’s successor redacting his decision isn’t unlikely in of itself. And among the history itself, Cantha went into isolation about three known times before Usoku, iirc.
2) There are Canthan sailors who wash ashore the Tarnished Coast, per the Movement of the World. If Cantha kept their borders losed, I doubt that they’d be sending sailors out.

The reason for modern no-contact with Cantha is likely that the DSD is shipwrecking all Canthan sailors (and those who managed to make it through were likely killed by Risen – though that threat’s now gone).

As for taking this beyond fun… who said we are? Honestly, this whole forum is about discussing the lore, and to us that is fun. Even if we disagree with your “fun conjecture” (aka baseless speculation) doesn’t mean we find it a serious job in responding to it. We just don’t make wise- kitten jokes in response. :P

BrunoBRS.5178:

then why is he acting as if we couldn’t take conclusions from this piece of known information?

bloodstones are like a banquet for dragons, and thus we should be more worried about where they are and how safe they are. that’s what the OP is talking about.

Er… that’s not what I was saying at all.

What I said is that for the course of the personal story, the NPCs would not know that the Elder Dragons would see the Bloodstone as a delicacy – they may suspect it from lvl 28 storyline on, but until the Mouth of Zhaitan it’d be theory and even then the national leaders may not learn of it until Zhaitan’s death.

I was saying this in response to SlyFoxSays asking why Jennah (or others) wouldn’t make defending the bloodstones a top priority. Answer is, Jennah doesn’t know that she should (and others too). At least during the course of the personal story. Only the orders and the Pact would know, and when it was confirmed fact they were all busy taking the fight to Zhaitan.

It’d be like asking why we didn’t go to stop Abaddon during Prophecies’ events. Abaddon’s existence was unknown to everyone in Tyria at the time.

Narcemus.1348:

I like to think of it this way. In Arah explorable there is a bloodstone shard. Now obviously it is a shard, not a full bloodstone, but still, there should be a lot of magical potential found within it, yet it was not consumed by Zhaitan. I like to think that if the Seers planned to put all of Tyria’s magic in 1 location, they had plans for keeping the ED’s from consuming that 1 thing.

However, those shards were being used by the High Priests of the gods after they were turned Risen.

Given how many magical artifacts still exist in Orr, I figured that Zhaitan was taking his sweet time in eating. No need to gourge down on all the food you have, just to starve later because you cannot get anymore – especially when, at the time, there’s no threat to the food disappearing. As such, the magical artifacts in Arah would be mostly left untouched, with Zhaitan focusing on eating magical artifacts obtained from the outer edges of his territory – which is actually what we see the Mouth of Zhaitan eating, given how the couriers come from a dead ship that we have to sink if we cut off its food supply.