Guild Wars 2

Except that compared to GW2’s map of Orr and the ruins found in Straits of Devastation, a good amount of the outer edges of Orr did sink.

And for the record, the novel didn’t make it sound like there was nothing left of Orr. There was a good deal about the Malchor’s Fingers which would be – based off of the SoS description and the GW2 map, the towering tops of the Cathedral of Eternal Radiance. There’s also mentions of other buildings jutting out of the waters here and there which is what made the waters of what was Orr so dangerous. It just made it seem like there was a lot of open water before land could be seen. IIRC, there actually is mention of islands of what remains of Orr. But it was a hand-waved comment if what I’m thinking of is such.

You should pay more attention. If I’m circling arguments, it’s because you’re doing the same as well.

1) That is a fan-made site – there’s nothing official stating that mural’s of a forgotten.

2) From http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page "Welcome to GuildWars Wikia,
an unofficial fanfic wiki for ArenaNet’s Competitive Online RPG, Guild Wars. "

That wiki’s just one big ol’ fan-fiction. I.e., it’s not reporting everything to accuracy, it makes kitten up from time to time. From the standpoint of accuracies of the wikis, the official wikis are the most accurate – but even they, especially GW2W hold many inaccuracies. Don’t trust any wiki as a word-of-truth, since they can literally be edited by anyone and everyone into anything and everything.

On the Mists portion – you really don’t understand what the Mists are, do you? It is a place, the Underworld resides within the Mists, so does the Rift, so does just about everything truth be told. When it is said “from the Mists” it means either “not from the world of Tyria” or “created directly from the Mists.” That’s all. Technically speaking, nothing yet everything is “from the Mists” since the Mists surrounds all life – e.g., all life is within the Mists, including the world of Tyria. And all things have their origins to the Mists as well, since it is the source of all creation.

I already clarified what I meant, humanity and the forgotten are not native to the world of Tyria as far as we’re told. That’s what I meant, which means the krait which are native to the world of Tyria as far as we’re told, are not related to the forgotten like you speculated.

I do believe it got confirmed as being a leviathan, actually.

The novel “screws up” the size and distances of continental Tyria quite a bit.

I mean, it constantly – and I do mean constantly, as in every single bloody time – refers to Orr as a continent, rather than what is is: a peninsula.

It even calls the body of water between Tyria and Cantha the Sea of Sorrows – never once making mention of the Unending Ocean or Clashing Seas.

Not to discredit Ree or anything, but I wouldn’t take the novel as a very good source of distance and land size. But at the same time, I wouldn’t take the games as such either – Tyria in GW2 is larger than Tyria in GW1 and in both, they’d be about the size of Italy in comparison when one can probably expect continental Tyria to be more akin to at the very least Europe if not larger – which would mean that it may be possible to not see land when within or near Orr’s water, despite it being there.

The biggest inconsistency in GW’s lore is landscape distance and the time needed to cross said distances. SoS makes it seem extremely huge, while the game makes it seem seemingly small.

In regards to the Cataclysm, GW1 only depicts it as a pillar of blinding light occuring – the explosion was purely speculative – while GW2 depicts it during the Arah story cinematic as the ground lighting up and getting pushed down so the two depictions do kind of match up and I wouldn’t call it “sinking land” but rather “land being pushed down” – kind of like if you were to take a mound of dirt and then compact it righter and righter to the ground.

@Bruno: That’s probably because the thing from the Manifesto trailer… was a Leviathan.

@Andele: The Crystal Sea – which no longer exists and was an inland sea between Tyria and Elona – is vastly different from the Unending Ocean, which divides the supercontinent of Tyria/Elona from Cantha.

The Mists is more than just “a space in between worlds/realms” – it’s the building blocks of life as well as the afterlife, which means it is where the Underworld and the like reside. Besides, when folks say “brought from the Mists” they usually mean “brought through the Mists”. Does that clarify it for you? Must I use nitpickery vocabulary?

Don’t forget that there are three other naga types – one of which is very cobra-like, and another very krait-like. And besides, the one naga you link… still doesn’t have a human-like head. Sure, the naga have more human-like heads than krait (well, the caster naga do), but that’s not saying much when the other kinds of naga don’t.

And you should try using GW2 krait images, rather than GW1 krait images, since it’s point blank obvious that they got a total overhaul in looks between the two games. The krait in GW2 aren’t nearly as slim as the krait in GW1.

The Ascalon mural of the “dragon heads” doesn’t look like Forgotten. It’s most likely meant to be a depiction of Glint – if not just a random design put in with no lore meaning, which is highly possible given the state of Prophecies.

And I’ve played GW1, I’ve looked at those murals. That snake isn’t ever stated to be a Forgotten. Ever. If it is and I’m wrong, please provide an image or other source of it being stated to be a forgotten.

Andele.1306:

To respond in order: he was (or at least the VA was trying his best/worst)

Except that he wasn’t crying. Did you actually look at the animations or listen to the VO? Because he wasn’t crying. He did sound downed by what Rox said (that Rytlock would never say such things to his allies, yet he did), but that’s not the same as crying.

Hell, it seems to me that he was more upset over Rox’s attempt to defend Rytlock than over Anise’s actions.

Andele.1306:

He doesnt doubt his decision to save the queen, he does the fact that he joined and then abbandoned DE, different things.

He doesn’t doubt that either.

Andele.1306:

Anise is a tease, everyone who doesnt notice it on the first look (and her profession) doesnt really have the brightest light.

Doesn’t mean the things she does won’t hurt.

Andele.1306:

Id probably get kicked 4 times harder in a place that could be called the royal jewels if something like that were to happen and just so, Logan should have been executed by all rights (not only because Balthazar doesnt approve of cowards as we all quite know, not only from all the fights he caused in GW1 – hell pvp in lore exists because of his love for slaughter, but also the 2 missions that include his influnce that turns people into killing machines, but because he allowed a elder dragon to survive over a “true ancestor” of the human royal bloodline.

PvP and Balthazar actually have nothing to do with each other in lore. The closest connection is that the Zaishen in GW1 managed PvP and they worshiped Balthazar back then. PvP was always about personal glory and honor, and in GW2 it holds no ties to Balthazar except the oddly placed motifs of Balthazar in WvW.

Andele.1306:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The krait are not in the same location where Abaddon clashed with the others – that was the Crystal Sea, aka now the Crystal Desert. Krait come from the depths of the Unending Ocean – very different location.

You mean the giant piece of water right to the southwest of the Crystal Desert (and directly connected to it if you go to the southeast), the sea we sail on to get to the kitten Crystal Desert? Ok then New York has nothing to do with the North Atlantic because there is other land there.

No, I mean the huge blot of sand that was ONCE a sea but isn’t any longer. Abaddon fell at “The Mouth of Torment”: which is not very much landlocked but when he fell, was the coast of the Crystal Sea.

What you’re doing is saying that the Great Lakes is “more or less the same place” as the Hudson River.

Andele.1306:

Forgotten arent “from the mists”, just like humans, the 5 (or 6) gods migrated them to Tyria. Naga kinda obviously aint related to krait nor forgotten since they have humanoid skulls, normal hands and for some reason cloth to cover themself but not as armor.

You just contradicted yourself.

You claim the Forgotten aren’t from the Mists.

But then you claim that the Six Gods migrated them to Tyria like humanity.

Guess where humanity came from? That’s right the Mists.

And Naga skulls aren’t really humanoid at all. And krait cover themselves with clothing too, btw, and have “normal hands” (as normal as naga hands).

Andele.1306:

http://bestgamewallpapers.com/files/guild-wars-prophecies/serpent.jpg – got your forgotten, now compare to the south krait dragon metamorph; btw it is evolution, because adulthood via physical mutations; aka metamorphosis; allows for a better genertical and hormonal exchange, thus it would mean if there is enough genetical variance it could end up with differnt types of the same race that dont depend on adapting in their larval stage. Btw amongst the murals and obelisks in ascalon about the human gods and forgotten we got a dragons head, a “forgotten” that surprisingly looks really like our current krait (spiky gauntlets/arms included) and a eastern type dragon but with full grown arms and legs.

Nothing says that’s a forgotten, technically. This is a forgotten. Doesn’t look like that concept art.

And I wouldn’t put much stock on those “dragon heads” as being krait. The murals existed roughly 7 years before the krait look like they do now.

Logan wasn’t crying…. I think you read much more into the lowered tone than there really was.

And if you did the dungeons and personal storyline – especially street rat as a human – you would outright know that Logan did not doubt his decision. He regretted that he couldn’t make it back in time to help and that his actions caused Snaff’s death, but he views the matter of “no matter what happened, a death would have occurred” and has came to terms with himself about it.

The lowered voice was just over the fact that Anise went and reopened old wounds as a “joke.” He wasn’t crying or going all emo. It would be like if you got into a fit of rage and punched your significant other and months after putting it behind the two of you, someone cracks a joke about said event. You wouldn’t be unphased either, but you wouldn’t be breaking down like you claim Logan was (again: he wasn’t).

I agree fully with what Ehecarl said on this.

Mechanics don’t mean kitten in lore – to put it bluntly. Servers are mechanics too – those things don’t exist in lore. At best they’re alternate dimensions, so the amount of x things in Universe 1 is irrelevant to the number of x things in Universe A. Same for Overflow servers.

And keep in mind that they likely repair the Watchknights and had a large amount built beforehand. Heck, the existence of zergs can be considered more mechanical than lore as well anyways, as can respawn rates and player kill rates. But it’s a fact that human technology is focused around individual craftsmanship – it’s the charr who go towards the direction of mass engineering. So unless Jennah made a commission from the charr to create the Watchknights, those things weren’t built on an assembly line (also: your numbers would be impossible even for a charr assembly line).

The krait are not in the same location where Abaddon clashed with the others – that was the Crystal Sea, aka now the Crystal Desert. Krait come from the depths of the Unending Ocean – very different location.

The Forgotten are said to come from the Mists, so it seems highly unlikely that they are related to the krait – just as they are not related to the naga (whom look more krait-like than the four-armed Forgotten).

The krait seemed to have lost their metamorphosis (btw, not an evolution) between GW1 and GW2, as well as having lost their viper-like look; it could just be a redesign but nonetheless there’s another thread on that here. The leviathan are described as being their own kind of sea creature, so I doubt that they’re just a super-metamorphesized krait when we don’t see krait metamorphesizing in GW2.

BTW, the Jade Maw is a kraken – either GW2’s redesign of the things, or a twisted form made such by the Mists. In the Solid Oceanic Fractal, we can even see a wurm entrapped in jade – this is likely the new look for the GW1 Leviathans. They’ll probably be made to look like the Undersea Wurms should we ever go to Cantha and the Jade Sea.

Andele, about how the Living Storys treat Rytlock/Logan’s relationship – as far as I have seen, Rytlock’s no longer kitten ed at Logan. But they don’t show that they’re buddy-buddy because of their whole “we don’t want to create a ‘paradox’ where you experience the Living Story before the Personal Story” (which such a paradox is only possible because they decided that the living story shouldn’t be a mechanical continuation of the personal story and permanent, despite the fact that canonically the LS takes place after the PS).

In other words, the problem isn’t so much that Rytlock and Logan’s opinions of each other got reverted. They’re not changed. The problem is that Anet can’t decide how they want to do their freaking game and their new plan clashes with how they first presented the game (cuz they don’t want to ever be retroactive).

His line in the short story about Logan isn’t anywhere near a revert. Hell, it seems to be a continuation of where things were left off – to him, they were “talking” not quite back to how things were before snaff’s death, he admits that he was more mad at himself than Logan (and doubly so for acting such a way to his friend), which made him remorseful when he thought Logan died (“he was my friend and I treated him like kitten for all these years, now I’ll never be able to repay my actions”), but he still finds Logan’s love for Jennah irritating as he always had since even Edge of Destiny’s events.

Rytlock’s view on Logan doesn’t seem to have gone back to how things were at the beginning of the game in the least. Nor does Logan go all emo again over the Watchknight’s pretending of being Rytlock – though it did open memories of old wounds.

On top of what Maethor said,

successors should be the case.

You do realize how common a skull for a pirate flag is, right? Just about every pirate flag contains a skull.

I doubt that Mai’s descendency has much to do with the Aetherblades’ origins, given that while she’s a captain she doesn’t seem to be the leader and that the Aetherblades is a multi-racial pirate group.

But the way that she made it sound like how magic functions seems to be that Abaddon’s actions were utterly pointless. Like they were of no consequence. And in turn, the other five gods’ actions to counter Abaddon’s acts were similarly pointless.

The only way about it would be that non-bloodstone magic became so commonplace so quickly in the past 250 years… but that means that 1,000 years passed where Bloodstone magic was common place, then suddenly it wasn’t. It would have to be that there was already a large amount of magic – humanity just didn’t have access to it for one way or another. That, or something happened in the past 250 or so years to cause the Bloodstones’ magic to effectively and easily be absorbed into the world – or some other reason for the world’s magic to supercede the Bloodstone’s so quickly and drastically.

Still, the way she worded things sounded like GW1’s lore on magic is just “old people’s way of thinking” and of utterly no relevance in the long run. As if GW1’s lore on magic – and hell, even some GW2 lore on magic – just got retconned.

The difference between Tyrian’s magic and science is that science doesn’t change – how we use it does. Tyrian magic does change, according to Angel – it’s ever increasing until the Elder Dragons come and consume it (and then bleed it back out…). While a change of thinking may occur – it shouldn’t have in such a drastic manner, unless it was already capable of using magic without the bloodstones in GW1’s time – but then, as said, Abaddon’s actions seem quite minute in the grand scale of things.

And let’s also not forget that the interview basically tells us that all GW1 PCs and half of the NPCs from EN and on were effectively geniuses in magic given how many secondary professions there were. Unless somehow magic became harder to learn, yet easier to access (which itself is contradictory).

Jennah didn’t turn Logan into her slave – this has been stated by a dev that their love is genuine. All Jennah did was create a mental connection between the two so that she could call on him if she was ever in trouble.

She got in trouble as the Branded were storming Ebonhawke when they were utterly unprepared for a dragon assault. Jennah and Anise themselves were even fatigued from trying to look into Kralkatorrik’s mind and failing.

Jennah called upon Logan – not knowing that Logan and Destiny’s Edge were preparing to face down an Elder Dragon – and he saved her.

People often say that Logan made the “wrong choice” – but honestly, is there a right choice?

Save the queen, Snaff dies and Kralkatorrik lives. Stay to protect Snaff, Jennah dies, the Ministry (aka Caudecus) takes over Kryta with possible civil war between Jennah supporters vs. Caudecus supporters going at it; the last human nation in Tyria either falls or goes “lol wut dragons, we won’t help you” (which is exactly what Caudecus’ stance on the ED are – “they’re not treats to us, we shouldn’t do anything about them.”).

Also keep in mind that Logan didn’t know what kind of danger Jennah was in, nor did he know that Snaff would die – let alone for the group to continue their fight against Kralkatorrik without him. He’s no fortune teller. All he knew at the time was that they were preparing to face an Elder Dragon, and the love of his life was in danger.

The book fails in showing this properly, thanks mainly to Logan not making much of a difference in the fight somehow, and Jennah pulling a dues ex illusion after recovering (time given to her by… Logan!). But the book fails to portray a lot of things properly.

The Pact has become an individual group that uses funding and backing not just from the orders but the nations as well. One group’s attention (or rather, two) wouldn’t be expected to reduce the Pact’s strength that much. Especially given the size of the three Orders and how they only gave a portion of their members to the Pact invasion.

I imagine those Vigil forces that went after the MA were Vigil members that were not aiding the Pact but stationed elsewhere.

Diovid.9506:

I’d almost be inclined to ignore everything said in this interview.. I wonder what Ree and Jeff have to say about it.

Evans.6347:

She seems like a very cheerful, enthusiastic person, but while reading it I can’t help but feel like most of it was thought up on the spot.

Antara.3189:

It would seem too many lore writers have too many hands in the pot. That’s the major issue with having many writers discussing one fictional area.

Agree with all three.

I’d really like some reaffirmation about the points brought up in the interview from the lore continuity folks (Ree and Jeff).

That line kind of confuses me when taking into consideration an explanation of lore, even though this is historical nonetheless…

Orrian History Scrolls

My early career as a merchant began in Foible’s Fair, in southern Ascalon. Imaging my shock at my first encounter with the enchanted markets of Wren.

Fishmongers display live catch in watery orbs above their tents. Porters enhance their strength with spells, routinely carrying loads that would cripple a pack bull.

The finest silks ripple in the air, showing their quality: songs play themselves on golden lyres; parents project their voices across the square to the[sic] find the ear of a wayward child.

Yet the real oddity is just how normal all this seems to them. It makes me ponder: How did magic become so common, so everyday?

In Ascalon, we apply magic only to things of import-when ordinary means cannot succeed. For the Orrians, magic is like any other tool, to be used at whim and with little concern.

And then…

The gods, in their wisdom, dispersed their magic throughout Tyria. Magic was dissipated, so that none by be too tempted by its power.

We know that we can draw and contain magic through intense study and the use of certain materials-‘signets’-and also with the blessing of all the Six.

Have the Orrian people simply internalized these lessons? Is the land there so magical that all are born with the ability to use magic without the need for education? My theory will require more research………

What Angel says seems to kind of counteract this…

Mechanically, yes.

Lore-wise/geographically, no.

I wouldn’t call Sparkfly Fen part of the Steamspur mountains either, btw, as they’re not mountains. It’s just the coast of the Sea of Sorrows and even holds some Krytan ruins to the north and Orrian ruins in the middle. Geographically it can more or less be considered a “no-man’s land” – stuck between Kryta, Orr, and Shiverpeak Mountains.

Tuomir.1830:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I think the purpose behind the Molten Alliance was the magitech that was made out of it – the Fused Weaponry. The two bosses that we fought in the dungeons were very peculiar – a jetpack and cyborg technology that was reminiscent of the Giganticus Lupicus in Arah.

I disagree. There were no signs of anyone outside the alliance overseeing the development of the weaponry, nor have we seen Aetherblades use anything similar.

The whole thing about the Molten Alliance was them combining the fire magic with dredge tech. That was the entire purpose for the two groups’ intentions (the Flame Legion were going to then enslave the dredge afterwards, and the moletariate were promised the flame magic to empower their tech). That was the promise the silver-tongue stranger proposed to convince the dredge to work with Flame Legion.

And in this, they also discovered a new metal that has to be mined in its liquid form but is highly magically conductive – Azurite I presume since that’s what we see the kidnapped civilians mining.

I would find it extremely odd if the purpose of the alliance by the personal nemesis or whomever united them wasn’t for the technology. Do keep in mind that the Molten Alliance was active for longer than we saw them – they were kept “under the radar” due to everyone’s attention being on the Elder Dragons. Hell, it’s possible that the Molten Alliance was being formed during the original plot prior to the events of Sorrow’s Embrace and Citadel of Flame given how advanced they got.

Tuomir.1830:

My point was that steam creatures do not necessarily mean that the Infinity Ball storyline is directly involved. It still is strange that they use the same kind of portals, though.

The Aetherblades have shown no presence in Lornar’s Pass in the past, however, so I’m doubtful on the presented theory of “reverse engineering.” The only thing that would work would be if they obtained Steam creatures from somewhere else – or some time else.

They – and even Faren if you were part of Secret of Southsun – remembers you during the Opening Ceremony, at least.

I wouldn’t doubt it to be an oversight or a bug. Though the reason for “no fix” may easily be that it’s such a minor thing that it doesn’t have priority.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

As to the calender… Meh. I’m a bit disappointed, but it’s not like we didn’t see it coming. The Mouvelian calendar has been all but forgotten, at least from a game content perspective. Off the top of my head, I can’t think of ever seeing a Tyrian season named in-game, but I’ve seen several mentions of spring, summer, etc.

Did they ever need to do such a thing on the calendar though? No.

Think about it – if they want the living story and the calendar to sync up, then they’d need to quit the 2 hours of day and 2 hours of night. We pass 365 Tyrian days mechanically in just about a month for us! The game’s time spending and ours never synced up – neither for when the new year begins, let alone the Canthan new year (which is as far as we know, the same as the Mouvelian new year which would be Wintersday but the equivilant of our Spring Equinox), nor in the span of rate of updates. So why make some kitten attempt to explain such now?

It would have been far better to just go and say “it’s a matter of suspension of disbelief, though the Living Story updates on a semi-monthly basis, the Tyrian time and our time differ still.”

Though yeah, kind of sad that they’ve all but ignored the Seasons of the Scion, Zephyr, Colossus, and Phoenix names – replacing them fully with fall, spring, winter, and summer (even though those terms were used in GW1, the traditional Seasons of the _ were more common). _That were more common). That could more easily be attributed with a passage of time and culture though.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

@Konig I’m actually rather surprised you jumped straight to the four schools being retconned. The thought that crossed my mind is that with environmental magic on the rise, the races don’t need to tap into the Bloodstones and their inherent limitations anymore. It’ll be interesting to see which one it turns out to be.

Hmmm… I could see that, now that you mention it. But how she said it still feels like the Bloodstones never truly divided magic and it just was a teaching means by the human spellcasters.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

At the end, I think my biggest question is this: if magic can be tapped by practically any person, why is there such a low proportion of spellcasters? Even accounting for the rigors of study and discipline, the fairly even split between martial and magical classes seems odd. Both would take intensive training, but the inherent potential of magic is much larger. Apply that in-game, where most armies are skewed towards martial professions, and it becomes even odder.

That’s a good point to make and very curious.

Sindex.9520:

I can buy the alternate reality story personal nemesis. If it’s an alternate destiny edge member or a former antagonist that carries a different personality (it works). However I cannot buy another alternate PC character from another universe. That’s pushing it. The infinity ball story line is fine. If you count that story any of our PC alternate versions should be dead now.

I cannot understand your argument.

1. In the Infinity Ball storyline, that one particular possible future’s Zojja’s dead. So why would DE member be fine but not PC?
2. There’s more than one possible future. The Pale Tree says so herself – the future is always changing. During A Light in the Darkness, we see Caithe giving into the nightmare and Faolain, for example. We prevented this from occuring.

I don’t see how a possible future’s PC-turned-evil wouldn’t work. Just give the individual a title to go by to be referred to, and the VO would be who did the PCs already.

Agroman.7190:

Oh, you are contradicting yourself, but I think you missed to what I was pointing in this regard.
It is because you are reducing one thing to a yard with a statue, while pointing towards another statue with even less surrounding as ‘the real deal’. That is kind of funny, because there is no real argument behind it, no real evidence that makes it more ‘true’.

‘Cause yes, you’re right – a shrine is where people go to seek religious guidance. True. And as we could see in the engine, both shrines of Balthazar were used for just that (the lower one with the yard actually more than the one on Balthazar High Road, to be correct).

I’m not contradicting myself – you just seem to be not listening, or not understanding, me.

One place is used as a location for religious advice, the other was not. This is what differentiates a shrine from a mere statue. This is what I was saying. This is not contradictory. At all.

I had not once seen any ambient dialogue of someone going to the priest of Balthazar on the lower end. And I remained in the area for a long time in the past to see all the ambient dialogue and actions. The upper statue is where the travelers went to, not the training yard. There would be periodical NPCs going up and asking for a blessing before heading out on the battlefield. The other one just had training seraph turn to the priest and salute before taking a break from their sparring.

Besides, a developer just went and proved me right that it’s the upper Plaza that was the main shrine. Though also proved me wrong in that the other place was also a shrine – but a lesser one, unlike what you and everyone else has been claiming.

Please do refrain from turning your RP into canon, as it seems to me that’s what you’re doing.

The connection between the Mouvelian calendar and our real-world calendar is a practical one. Thanks to your question, we had a big discussion here. The Mouvelian calendar was established way back when Guild Wars was first being created. At that time, we had no idea we’d ever be doing Living World content like we are now. We’ve decided that we’re going to change the Mouvelian calendar to a 365-day year. Here’s the official in-game asuran announcement:

“Friends and fellows. Due to recent (amazing!) reasoning by scholars of the Astronomagical Society, we are pleased to announce that we have added the five hidden days to our calendar year! That’s five extra days we’ve recognized for you to advance your work before the annual review. Gifts and gratitude are unnecessary. We merely acknowledged them officially; we did not create them. May all your projects be almost as successful as ours.” — Mikk

Are you freakin’ kidding me?

“Oh hey, when this was made, we didn’t think we’d be doing this. So lets retcon it! 8D”

Goodbye ArenaNet, hello Blizzard 2.0 who’s lore is written on a piece of toilet paper. >.>

Next thing you know, they’re going to say “no, the Mouvelian calendar doesn’t start at the beginning of spring, it starts in the middle of winter!” Or they’ll go “the Mouvelian calendar didn’t have months in the past, so we decided to give twelve months to it – we named them January, February, March, April, June, July, August, September, October, November, and December.”

First basically retconning out the four schools of magic, and now altering the calendars for no reason? What about the Canthan calendar which has 12 months already of 30 days each? Or the Dynastic Reckoning calendar? Are the years between them now going to be messed up in transitioning, or are those going to get retconned to just to make the living story progress at the same time as reality?

GG Anet, kittening up the lore for non-lore reasons.

lordkrall.7241:

If that is their actual purpose they have more or less been confirmed to not be actually evil.

I wouldn’t say that. Their goal in life isn’t evil, but how they go about seems to be.

That, or their influence while awake turns things evil. Or they geniunely believe that those who would stop them from keeping the world in balance is evil (aka all the races).

As to the Abaddon bit: It’s possible that the Elder Dragons stirred a bit. I mean, what’s the earliest mention of Glint after the Elder Dragons went to sleep? Quite some time after the Exodus…

Though that only goes to show that that much magic – if it truly wasn’t enough to wake the dragons (maybe it was enough in quantity, but not enough in timespan presence) – is still not as bad as it would be without the Elder Dragons around.

All we need to know now is this:

What happens when too much magic is concentrated?

When we know this, we’ll know what’ll happen should the Pact kill off all of the Elder Dragons.

Now to read the interview (responding as I read):

Interesting stuff on magic. First mention of ley lines I believe, though that could explain the blue lines on the globe in the Chantry of Secrets – which was one of the theories about those lines and dots.

This also confirms the theory that magic resides within the world of Tyria itself. The Artesian Waters must be right on top of one of those ley lines – a hotspot among them all.

Now my theory on the times of the dragon awakenings seems more likely, and the reason why they awoke now – that Abaddon messed with the natural flow of magic (though first the seers did) – is even more likely.

The interview also confirmed that it’s not just Primordus but all Elder Dragons who seep out magic while sleeping. This would hint that this “seeping of magic” is non-corruptive, otherwise effectively all magic in the world is corruptive. So the Elder Dragons have to proactively corrupt.

Angel says “An uncontrolled spell can do terrible damage.” – this would reactively mean “uncontrolled magic can do terrible damage” so a lot of concentrated magic… if it were to ever get out of control…

It also seems we have an indirect explanation for the lack of secondary professions – now people just simply specialize in a single profession, not wanting to spend the excessive time it would take to master two. I wonder what this means in relation to the Bloodstones’ schools though.

Though an interesting line is this: “And, the danger of a conflict between magical energies and thus, an explosion, is very real.” So combining two schools of magic can provide to be very dangerous? I wonder which such combinations would prove to be so. Aggression and Preservation (aka Necromancer and Monk/Paragon/Ritualist/Guardian)?

These schools aren’t as important in modern magic as they were even 250 years ago. They have fallen out of style as people have realized that magic doesn’t need these kinds of limiting factors.

Huh…

This is very interesting. This seems to imply that the four schools of magic are not created by the four bloodstones. That the bloodstones’ division of magic in such a manner is merely cultural disbelief.

More information is required, because it sounds here like Angel doesn’t know her GW1 lore.

It’s interesting to see something about how people learn magic. It seems magic in the whole is innate and the only thing taught about magic would be the specific spells and how to go about using magic, rather than how to use magic itself.

Good to see a wee bit more on waypoints, but I see she dodged the “how do they work” part.

Only the most ancient of humans (who have magical longevity) have lived more than 250 years and have seen a god or avatar face-to-face.

Oh? So is this meant to be the explanation behind Magi Malaquire and Livia?

That’s because the Watchknights are still physical robots. They’re just controlled via mesmer magic (and something related to engineers?) and can change their appearance by said mesmer magic.

Keep in mind that mesmer magic is more than just illusions. Mesmers are capable of bending and changing the fabrics of reality itself, as they use chaos magic (which is what caused the whole mishap at Thaumanova Reactor – that’s basically mesmer magic taken to godly or demigodly proportions and focused on elements and teleportation).

It’s not all just illusions or tricks of the mind. It’s physical as well.

There was also an arena in DR mentioned – before the Crown Pavilion mind you. It seems lore-wise every city has/had one, but LA’s got torn down as per a norn NPC in Fort Marriner.

I recall hearing about leviathan-related events in Mount Maelstrom being found in the gw.dat. That was likely where it was to be.

Yoda.2839:

Wasn’t there a dev post that we will see someone familiar from the Lost Shores, but this time with different name? I assumed that mysterious stranger was this person under new name, because I didn’t see any other new NPCs or did I miss something?

Don’t recall seeing this dev post. But we do see Lord Faren from The Lost Shores.

We certainly did not meet a female sylvari during the Lost Shores, at the very least. At least none that was of any amount of importance whatsoever.

Erukk.1408:

jinx.2813:

A small note,going by what the mysterious stranger is wearing and Anise’s dialogue at the end,it seems likely that the stranger is infact a OoW infiltrant

Isn’t the stranger wearing the new magitech armor? The one you can buy off the TP?

Yes, she’s wearing Magitech armor dyed red, but with an OoW hood. I wouldn’t take it as all that important.

Though it may be the thief bio hood. I didn’t get a good look.

I think the purpose behind the Molten Alliance was the magitech that was made out of it – the Fused Weaponry. The two bosses that we fought in the dungeons were very peculiar – a jetpack and cyborg technology that was reminiscent of the Giganticus Lupicus in Arah.

Good point on the assassinating Jennah bit… to quote the mysterious stranger: “you’ve gone and ruined my fun” – by destroying the haywire watchknight. Meaning that it seems like she wanted to watch Logan get toyed around with (or just that she wanted to watch the watchknight go berserk). I think that’ll be what we’ll see later on – the watchknights will get hijacked by the Aetherblades.

About the Brisban Wildlands gate – that’s a malfunctioning testing gate that is being designed to have one gate for a trip, and it pulls out several Shiverpeaks creatures – not just Steam Mechataurs, but icebrood and griffons too. I doubt that holds any relevance, since the portals the Aetherblades were using wasn’t using an asura gate when opening (which the testing requires).

Lutinz.6915:

I dont however think they have to do with the steam creatures.

Two folks have told me they saw a steam creature during an escort event – one being Narcemus seeing it in Queensdale, the other being a guildie seeing it in Gendarran.

I think it’s hard to not believe that the mysterious stranger cloaked in red would be Scarlet who’s known to have ties with the Aetherblades. But why attack DR? My bet’s on the Watchknights. I mean, think on it – everything about the living story has been about 2 things and the repercussions of them – advancement in technologies and political turnovers. The Watchknights fall under the former, and the Queen’s putting all the stops to prevent Ministry interference with the Crown Pavalion which falls into the second potentially…

I somehow doubt that the Ministry’s happy about them not being allowed to tamper with the Queen’s arena.

Agroman.7190:

You’re contradicting yourself.

You are denying that it is a shrine and say that it’s “just a training yard with a statue”, but then you call the Plaza of Balthazar (which is just that – a plaza) the true shrine, where there’s basically even less about it honoring Balthazar.

I’m not contradicting myself. The difference is that the Plaza of Balthazar is where the priests give out blessings, and where people go to seek advice from Balthazar’s priesthood.

To say a training yard is a shrine just because it has a statue of Balthazar there is to say a library’s a shrine because there’s a statue of Kormir there. Or to say that a classroom of a Catholic school is a shrine because there’s a statue of Jesus or Mary in there.

A shrine by definition is a place where people go to pray or seek religious guidance.

But most importantly neither of them are a temple like Cardon and Illi claimed which is what I was originally disputing.

Agroman.7190:

Fighting is the sacred thing about faith in Balthazar, practising the arts of combat, and thus, the true shrine for me was the one that has just been wiped away for no real reason, lorewise.

Noooot really. Fighting is not so much “sacred” as that’s what the god personifies. Otherwise you’d say that dying was sacred in the faith of Grenth – but it’s not. It’s acknowledging death. For Balthazar, it’s not exactly clear (hence the elongated “not”) but if the Zaishen and Priests of Balthazar in GW1 are of any decent example, the situation is that honorable combat that is performed and shown is what’s closest to “sacred” in the followers of Balthazar.

Agroman.7190:

It would honor Balthazar if it were true PvP, a place where soldiers are gathered to practise and contest, to spread their knowledge and prepare people to go to war.
There’s nothing like that about the new arena in any way.

It doesn’t really have to be PvP for it to be honorable to Balthazar, let alone sentient being versus sentient being. Combating the Watchknights whom can take on a variety of opponents and abilities would certainly constitute for being Balthazar-esque.

The only thing that prevents the Crown Pavilion from being Balthazar-esque is the lack of mention of him or the priests of Balthazar, really.

My thought was the “interesting twist” would be – that it’s a villain who looks just like your own character. That’s what would make the figure instantly recognizable, IMO.

That or having a highly recognizable name like Faolain.

Truth be told, I was kind of disappointed when we were told that the personal nemesis would be a “she” (even if it was an off-hand remark), as I’d find this to be far more interesting. A possible future version of oneself who goes mad with power for xyz reason.

A Priest of Balthazar overseeing training is not all that odd to think about, really. But that wouldn’t make it a shrine in the least. The shrine is a level above the training grounds – at the Plaza of Balthazar itself.

I don’t recall a single Seraph in that spot “coming to pay respects” – and a salute to a priest or statue? So? How does that signify a shrine. In a way, yes, it is a shrine – in that it’s a statue of a god. But it’s no temple.

So during The Opening Ceremony, I wasn’t paying much attention to the sky at first when the Aetherblade Ship arrived so it was finishing its arrival as I turned my camera and I thought I saw something that made me do a double-take. I instantly restarted the instance and kept my camera up the second time and what I thought I saw was correct…

The Aetherblade airship arrived (and left) via a Steam Portal.

Attachment for the portal as the airship left. And a link to the Steam Portal.

So does this hold any significance, I wonder?

Back when the Living Story started, we were told that the personal nemesis would be someone we would immediately recognized. This made me think of the asura Infinity Ball storyline and the Grand High Sovereign at the end – a future version of you who went bad and took over the world with the Steam Creatures. While a dev did make mention of “she” for the personal nemesis, that wouldn’t necessarily counter-act a gender-changing nemesis…

Now, we got Aetherblades using Steam Portals to come and go… I doubt that this is a mere coincidence. Though on the flip side, this red-Magitech armor wearing sylvari (whom I suspect to be Scarlet, just fits a bit too well) could be the personal nemesis…. and the portal could just be reused for the electrical appearance… but I’m holding my hopes.

A future version of the PC who came back to advance technology (Moltan Alliance, Aetherblades, alliance with Inquest, and now tampering with the Watchknights? It’s all technology related) would be interesting… or a sylvari cloaked in red interested in technology for non-world domination reasons – that’d be interesting too…

Thoughts on this new info?

@Cardon: I wouldn’t call the descendants of Doric “the chosen people” – that’s just the royal bloodline.

As to how Tyrians would react… I doubt that they’d be overall pleased. But since the Plaza of Balthazar’s still there it wouldn’t be that huge of a deal. I mean, in reality all that was lost was the Seraph’s main training grounds within Divinity’s Reach. It wasn’t an actual arena or temple or anything of the like. Just one statue of a god and some training dummies – the latter of which there are some in Shaemoor.

@Illi: It wasn’t a temple. It was just statues (one of Balthazar, others of soldiers) and training grounds for the Seraph.

Your comparisons are rather poorly drawn, imo – especially the Vatican and Mekka mentions. Since this was just a training ground with a statue of Balthazar and not a temple like you seem to believe, it’d be more akin to taking down a statue of Jesus and meadow for prayer and replacing it with a park.

My aunt’s a nun and her old convent has been bought and renovated as a social gathering place (with the old crypt being replaced as a cafeteria… that’s a little joke for the family there – people now eat where corpses were!). They’re not all that upset about it. They got a new place and moved on.

@Fafnir: Except that the enemies fought are the Watchknights, whom use mesmeric abilities to take on different appearances and attack functions. So there’s not that much blood to be spilled.

However, it is true that they added a large arena of combat. Befitting for the god of war and honor. But on the flip side, I haven’t seen a single statue to any of the Six Gods in said arena. And the old statue got replaced for what is effectively an elitists’ VIP area.

The only thing the Jade Wind was turn things to stone (or in the case of liquid, gemstone). Animals and the like in the Echovald, along with the trees, turned to stone. The Jade Sea itself turned to jade, leaving the creatures within petrified. It didn’t go mutating anything at all.

The ending-in-vowel for female name is more of an asura thing.

Male charr names are indeed rather sharp, while female are more fluid. Both feature a lot of consonants in the name.

For character creation… my personal favorite storylines were Gladium father and Ash Legion. But Blood and Shaman father were good too.

I could easily see Joko turning on Abaddon the second he got what he wanted.

Regarding the Scarab Plague and Apocrypha – that’s a connection I don’t doubt at all, personally, but I wouldn’t label it as an intended action of Abaddon’s or his agents. Main reason why I don’t doubt a connection is in regards to where the Apocrypha is found in Nightfall – in the Flooded Rainur which is said to be “entry to its Storm Quarters, underground housing and grain storage” – and combine this with what the Scarab Plague was believed to be – scarab eggs in the food, presumably wheat and grain, that hatched inside people. Seems as drax said, too much of a coincidence.

But I still wouldn’t label it as an intentional act of Abaddon or his agents. Seems more likely to be a massive case of Aggression (aka Necromatic) magic. Or preservation (resurrection). Or both.

Ludovicus.7980:

Ah, good’ol Verata. I wonder if they’ll expand garenhoof’s plot any time soon. Their elemental minions are supposed to be Verata’s studies’ legacy

Garrenhoff* and that “legacy” bit is 100% pure speculation.

There is no, nein, null, zero ties shown or hinted at being between Verata and Isgarren.

I’d have to go with Lordkrall on this. Something will probably happen to make it so.

Otherwise it’s just yet one more thing that’ll have to be chocked up to “consistency was put behind Anet’s ’it’ll be cool!’ planning” – this time due to the “great” idea of temporary content (foolish!).

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Actually, there are hints- not much more, but solid enough to build theories off of.

In the Nightfall manuscripts, it is stated that “many believed the outbreak of plague had supernatural origins, blaming the suffering of the innocent on unseen forces.” And then further: “Warfare brought suffering, weakening civilization against unseen horrors. By some accounts, widespread bloodshed and warfare strengthened malefic forces in the world. A few arcanists claim that such evils could very well have been the cause of such strife….” That is in regards to the Shattered Dynasty era, which followed the short-lived successor state to the Primeval Kings. Note that similar speculative, unclear language is used in the manuscripts to describe anything relating to Abaddon and his demons.

There is also the Apocrypha, which was sealed in Fahranur before it was abandoned to the Scarab Plague, seems to have contained the knowledge necessary to free Abaddon, and was initially regarded as a “gift.”

I wouldn’t be so quick to connect that all to Abaddon.

There’s more dark magic in the world than being tied to Abaddon or the Elder Dragons. And the Scattered Dynasty Era was just humanly bloody in of itself.

However, something I just remembered, some of the generic allied NPCs in the Desolation holds some hints to your theory crafting.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

There is some, obscure, evidence that points towards some activity by Abaddon or his agents around 450 AE. As it is implied that simple knowledge of Abaddon and Nightfall can bring about the later, I believe this activity was a failed attempt to free the former. I further suspect that Palawa Joko was around during this time, due to his apparent knowledge of Abaddon, the Mouth of Torment, and the Margonites, and indeed may have played a role in the effort’s failure, given his openly antagonistic stance towards all of the above.

(quoting so no need to scroll up)

From the Dynastic Spirit – “The dynasties were a time of peace and plenty. Children laughed and men and women discussed all manner of philosophy. Palawa Joko ended it all.”

This hints that Joko’s either from the time of the Primeval Dynasty or the Great Dynasty – as the only other named dyansty would be the Shattered Dynasties which were far from being a time of peace. Given how Joko “ended it all” he’s either going to be tied to the Scarab Plague (as that’s what ended said Primeval Dynasty), or he’ll be the reason why the Great Dyanstic collapsed – a situation that’s unstated.

If the name of the NPC is of any indication, then they’re of the Primeval Dynasty – because of the Dynastic Tombs sharing the same name, and said tombs were of the Primeval Dynasty’s nobles.

Then from the Ascension Pilgrims we get: “Palawa Joko’s final curse on us was the Scriptures of Abaddon. And look what they have done to the Ossa line.”

This proves part of your theory right – Joko does have previous knowledge of Abaddon. But it doesn’t seem so much to be in opposition to Abaddon. It may be he sought out Abaddon and the gods’ power in the past.

I can’t see them doing such (the changing what they said thing) given Sea of Sorrows. The Maw is a leviathan which becomes a risen.

ATM, there’s nothing to really say that the DSD will corrupt living beings – like Primordus, it seems to focus on corrupting the elements themselves (note: Primordus can corrupt living beings and that may be the story behind Volcanic Fractal, but thus far nothing shows that the destroyers we see are corrupted living beings; same goes for the DSD who’s only mentioned to have corrupted water).

It’s already been said that the Leviathans are not related to the Elder Dragons as minions or the like. What’s interesting is that they had a model for them shown in the Manifesto trailer, but it got cut from the game…

I can see it being credible in lore – a weapon made of bone and sinew with spectral bindings. I’d see it as kind of like taking an Elementalist’s conjure weapon with Necromanctic traits (or making a minion in the shape of a weapon), and mixing it with the concept behind guardian weapons.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Stopped reading when I came to this “The true origins of the charr is led back to the beginning of time when the first vampire stepped upon the first world”.

Same.

This is fan-fiction. Not lore.

kikojak.7051:

dude this lore includes the gargoyle story because when u your read further it will connect with the charr lore so it wouldn’t kill you if u read it whole

Doesn’t matter, still fan-fiction and vampires don’t exist in GW.

After Ghosts of Ascalon, Jeff Grubb was asked if there would be more than the three books in an interview.

IIRC, he responded with, essentially, “it’s on the table” – if the three books get high appraisal and sales, then they’d do more.

Given the response to the books, I suspect that they’ll do more. Likely either using in-house authors or having heavy in-house editing, since Edge of Destiny got the least appraisal.

Xenon.4537:

Also, what did you guys think of the books? What would you like to read about if they did more books?

I enjoyed all three, but liked GoA and SoS much better as they were written far more suburbly (yes, I know that isn’t a word).

As for things I’d like to see in a book in counter-chronicle order:

• The tale of Aesgir, how he fought Jormag and led the norn south.
• Usoku taking control of Cantha.
• Lady Glaive’s exploits during the Second Great Corsair War and her relation to King Zoran (and why he would do so much for her… there has to be a story there. Maybe “Lady Glaive” became “Queen Glaive” eventually?)
• Lord Odran – I’d rather see this in-game but I don’t think that it’d be well developed as it’d have to have some degree of combat (because apparently ArenaNet cannot have a story step without such).
• Emperor Singtah’s death – the fire that killed him and the rebellion sounds like a good story plot.
• The story of the Scarab Plague and the end of the Primeval Kings could prove an interesting novel plot.
• The story of Grenth living in Orr – he apparently wasn’t welcomed in Arah until he bested Dhuum, so he had to live amongst humans… I wonder how he did so.
• The story behind Kaineng Tah’s “mysterious death.”

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Ha, you liked EoD? Interesting, I thought it was poorly written garbage. :P

I liked EoD, but for the lore it provided – particularly in the fight with Kralkatorrik and the Dragonspawn – rather than the writing.

Dialogue around Viathan Lake and Viathan’s Arm hint to there (once) being a Leviathan living there – probably why it was called such.

Most likely, the Leviathans live in the Unending Ocean.

In Straits of Devastation, in “The Long Way Around” mini-dungeon, there’s an asura which mentions the bones around him may be tied to the Elder Dragons’ past. Those are leviathan bones.

Evans.6347:

Ironically, I’d say many drowned.
… Well the change wouldn’t have been that drastic to start but yea, the creatures we see in Factions are pretty much land dwellers. I suspect they can’t just go back to being aquatic (considering there is almost no water to be found at the Jade Sea during it’s jaded state). They probably turned to the little land available, which makes them susceptible to attacks from each other and the Luxons.

Unless rather than evolving into land-dwellers, they evolved into amphibians. Only 200 years passed between the Jade Wind and Factions, so I doubt that they’d fully evolve into land-dwelling, and it’s not like they couldn’t migrate through the river channel to the north into the open waters (or creatures migrating from there to escape the DSD).

It’s also possible that the solidifying wasn’t fully done in the Jade Sea, so the deep sea creatures could have survived.

kokiman.2364:

I was actually talking about the ones that got caught by the jadewind.

The only ones that may have survived would be the Canthan Leviathans (which are known to Tyrians as Undersea Wurms it would seem, given how in the Solid Oceanic Fractal, one can see a wurm (looks like a Frost Wurm oddly enough, but probably meant to be a non-coral-looking Undersea Wurm) trapped in the jade. In Factions, we saw one break free of its jade prison, still alive, so the others may still be alive too.

Risen are not standard undead. They’re merely corpses turned into dragon minions. So a necromancer would have as much luck controlling risen as they would (or an elementalist would have) controlling icebrood.