The majority see:
Familiar character who is reducing waypoints. Thaumanova is something I understand. I guess I’ll vote for her.
How I see it, the majority see:
Kiel stole my thunder, but Evon has intrigue behind him. Fighting a god would be EPIC! And I can get a better chance at that revolver skin!
This is just from what I’ve been reading. There are those who view it like you say, but I see more who’re “anti-Kormir 3.0” aka Kiel.
She’s literally been handed a free win with the way they’ve written this. Hell, your character sides with Kiel.
While not before writing the OP, I have gone in game and seen the cutscenes and dialogues. I disagree with that giving Kiel a win. And no, my character isn’t siding with Kiel. Kiel is siding with my character.
Your tin foil hats need tuning because I’m hoping for Kiel. -snip-
The Cutthroat Politics team tried to make it as even as possible.
I think the fact that my thread title got changed proves my tinfoil hat fits enough.
I think the team didn’t do too grand of a job for various reasons, even some not said by myself already. Both sides have pros and cons, and folks view these pros and cons differently as one would expect, but from what I’ve seen of the playerbase, the majority view Kiel as having more cons and pros. But that’s just what I’ve seen.
But I’m glad that someone from Anet went and posted here. Gives me a warm and tingly feeling inside. <3
We will not make both fractals.
You should. If Kiel wins, I intend to organize a rally placed right in front of Evon.
If Evon wins, that rally will be in front of Kiel.
I fail to see how a-net is favoring Evon.
[…]
And cinematics so far are making everyone see Evon as the bad Shaddy character. Even when you speak with them, Kiel is already treating you like you’re on her side.
Cinematics are completly biased against Evon.
You know, audiences tend to favor the shady figures from my personal experience. I don’t see this as being biased against Evon at all. And Kiel treating you friendly is only due to personal history with her. She probably considers the PC an ally, regardless of the PC’s view on her.
People were complaining lion chests weren’t worth while. So they added more stuff to them. Seems fair to me :p
I agree with the act. I disagree with the timing. It should have been done at the end of this content update, and announced after the voting, IMHO.
- Waypoints: -snip-
- Kiel as a character: Kiel is your typical good character. -snip- This is something the majority of players will associate with
- Evon as a character: He’s generally seen as your typical villain and with that comes the natural desire for him to lose. -snip-
- Thaumanova: Be honest with yourself. How much of the player base is actual GW1 vets that care about the lore to a mild extent? Maybe 10% Most of them don’t know, or don’t care, who Abaddon on. Thaumanova is your obvious go-to choice as they know it, it’s in game and they understand it.
- Fractals: Do you understand that the player base for fractals is ridiculously small?
I’ll break this into groups.
The WP part I concur with.
The Kiel’s character I disagree with being something in Kiel’s favor. From what I’ve seen – and granted I have not seen everyone’s view – folks are viewing Kiel as someone who is, and I paraphrase, “taking credit for our actions like Kormir and Trahearne.”
Then on Kiel being portrayed as good and Evon as bad… I disagree on your opinion for how people will go to them. People prefer not “good characters over bad characters” but “interesting characters over dull characters” – yes, Kiel is shown as good, but she’s straightforward. Which to many makes her bland. Evon however is an enigma. And people LOVE enigmas. In terms of personality and character, the only bit Kiel has going for her is that she’s more known… and for some folks that’ll be a downpoint.
About Thaumanova – I think you’re underestimating those interested in GW1 lore. But you do have a point. However, it is also because people know of the Thaumanova, but yet of what I’ve seen, not enough to make them interested in it. Like I said in the OP, from what I’ve seen, most folks aren’t interested in Thaumanova and others are left confused for why such a thing can be put on par to the fall of an ancient god.
And about Fractal playerbase – there’s enough of a sizable amount to make it worth. And worse, since you can buy support tickets, the richer playerbase has a larger say. And who’re the richer playerbase. Fractal and other dungeon runners more often than not.
Your argument is poor at best and I’m pretty sure you know it. Hell, the two cut-scenes we have of Evon set him out as a Villain. Objectively Kiel has a major upper hand and you know it. You are blatantly disregarding all facts and not taking into account who the actual player base is. They aren’t the seasoned Guild Wars 1 veterans who care enough about the lore to want to know more about the parentage of the Gods, where humanity came from, the origins of the Charr, what exactly the Great Dwarf is or even the contents of the Tome of Rubicon.
You’re making a false presumption. I know the majority of the playerbase isn’t seasoned GW1 veterans (though I’d say more than 10%), and I know even fewer folks than that are interested in the ancient mysteries of lore. But that’s exactly why I think Abaddon’s fractal would win.
There are more people interested in epic rather than lore, and Thaumanova isn’t epic on the cover. That was my argument about fractal opinions. That’s what I’ve seen about the fractals. Those favoring Abaddon’s fractal is more interested in the epicness such a thing could bring, not the lore behind it.
Evon being made out to be a villain as I see it only makes him more likely to be voted for.
As to my argument being poor, funny you say that yet you agree with what I said!
-more in next post-
My guess is a charr. Nothing else really fits the horns and head shape combo.
It’s an artistic painting so I wouldn’t put too much stock on the size of a mouth.
Centaur or “something new” is the only alternatives really available. The chest is flat so it’s not female centaur (they indeed have breasts).
That’s not exactly new. The whole “sylvari=dragon minions” theory has been around longer than we knew of Mordremoth. And as folks have looked more into Mordremoth, the more folks have thought that there could be a tie to the Nightmare – though I hope that the thought of “all sylvari=dragon minions” has diminished somewhat, since Mordremoth only shows possible ties to the Nightmare Court among the sylvari.
I laughed when I saw the rifle. Reminded me of this:
You misunderstand, lordkrall.
I don’t have a choice. I’m interested in both sides equally – the story aspect behind it. The lore of each fractal interests me equally. The rammifications of Evon winning and Kiel losing, or Kiel winning and Evon losing, interest me equally.
If anything, I’m probably more interested in Evon winning and Kiel losing, while more interested in the reactor fractal. In the end, it doesn’t matter to me which side wins or loses.
I think Anet may be intending for Evon to win either way because of how much more benefits there are to voting for Evon, because his promises and the updates made alongside the election are seemingly more geared to players based on past evidence. Players like new skins, and enjoy showing off new skins, as seen by the immense amount of people saying they go for the RNG despite hating how bad their chances are (and other things).
So again, I don’t have a “choice” so please don’t presume such. Honestly, I’m more likely to vote Evon if I had to chose one and no more or fewer.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
And yet you are assuming that the majority of players actually read the patch notes.
Those that don’t will not really know about stuff like this and would most likely vote for Kiel since they know about her but have more or less never seen or heard of Evon.
I greatly disagree with this.
Those that don’t read the update notes will likely still know of the candidates’ promises and to those who don’t pay much attention would still think the fall of Abaddon is more enticing than the reactor – they would probably think along the lines of “we already see what happened with the reactor, so why have two of the same thing?” even though such thoughts would be wrong (as the fractal is about the build up, not the fallout). And there are those among them who would see Kiel as a glory-stealer for getting promoted after each story event, seeing her as little different from Kormir and Trahearne. While I hope those numbers are few, I doubt that they are.
It really feels like Anet has always intended for Evon to win, and they’re just favoring him to mask the concept of “player choice” being non-existent here.
VOTE FOR SUWASH!
I would vote for Suwash if I could.
I’m quite appalled really at how much blatant favor you (ArenaNet) is giving to Evon Gnashblade. You’re just giving players more and more reasons to vote for Evon rather than Kiel, which makes the voting process overly biased and unfair to those who’d rather vote for Kiel.
When you announced the fractals, I thought it was fine. Either way, the story and lore shown would be interesting to see even though we practically know all about the Fall of Abaddon. Sadly, many people don’t see beyond the tip of the iceberg in the game’s lore and think that there’s nothing behind the Thaumanova, even after looking dutifully because of how wide-spread-yet-hidden Thaumanova lore is. In turn this creates a favor to the fall of Abaddon in both expected “epicness” and lore gleaned. I mean, how often do you get to witness a god in Guild Wars 2? Thus far: never.
But now with these update notes, it’s just outright unfair.
- Black Lion Chest Keys are now a rare drop from the Black Lion Chest. Most key drops have been replaced by Black Lion Ticket Scraps. This guarantees progress toward a reward rather than a simple retry.
- Tickets and ticket scraps will continue to drop from the Black Lion Chest and can be used for select future weapon sets.
You practically guarantee that Evon wins with this. Not only do you have folks who would rather have a “tie to GW1” over “another asura blown up experiment” (a gross understatement of Thaumanova’s lore), but now you’re basically telling this to the playerbase:
“Vote for Evon, get lower BLC keys, so you can open more chests and get more weapon skins! And hey, we’ll toss in a fight with a god.”
And what does Kiel have? Reduced waypoint cost and the overly underestimated Thaumanova blow up.
Not to mention that folks are treating Kiel like another Kormir or Trahearne thanks to your (ArenaNet’s) over-glorifications of her achievements, while the cons to Evon are neatly being glossed over by everyone, ArenaNet and player alike.
I’m sorry ArenaNet, but your bias is showing. So much for the whole “they need the players’ help” bit. Something tells me this will be a landslide victory just because you’re favoring Evon far too much. Intentional or not.
Go to the Black Lion Trading Post HQ in Lion’s Arch. Talk to his aide-de-camp.
He did indeed leave his legions, because he wanted to use his tactical knowledge from the legions for monetary gain.
every area we can see on the map right now will sooner or later be open or else it wouldnt be on the map.
Go play GW1, and see how wrong you are. Not a lot of the map was open for any three maps.
Orr was never open in GW1. Dzalana was never open in GW1. Just to name two named regions. And that’s not including the unnamed regions that were later given names, like Scavenger’s Causeway, Isle of Janthir, etc.
Another “good” thing about Bubbles and Mordremoth is we don’t know them, and the locations where they are supposed to be (Cantha + ocean, Magguma/west of Tyria) aren’t places we’d worry about defending.
So for example, in the Cantha expansion we could go to Cantha for any reason, without caring about Bubbles, and then he appears in the last moment. Maybe he could even be secondary, with another bigger threat remaining as the main villain.
[…]
Deldrimor Front would make sense as it’s the former dwarved homeland, and could serve as an entry point to the depths, together with the Maguuma Wastes.
i think eventually most of the map space will be playable content when the game is few years away from the release date , look at the wow map all space is used there.
Guild Wars 2 is not World of Warcraft. ArenaNet is not Blizzard.
Erm, you got something wrong.
A human (not charr) NPC asks where the outhouses are. The asura says that they don’t have outhouses.
But either way this topic feels troll’ing… but I’ll respond as if it isn’t.
The LA sewer system is actually mostly enclosed (we only see a small portion of it, which was busted open), and acts no different than most sewer systems that lead straight to a body of water.
About the cities and “not seeing any kind of toilets” – that’s true for all places. But just because we don’t see toilets doesn’t mean that they aren’t there behind the closed doors we can’t enter. Anet just didn’t render toilets.
But excluding your human racism trolling/roleplaying in your post, this is an already existing topic.
I hope that at the very least, ArenaNet finds some way to include the lore that would have been part of the fractal that loses.
Or they just release that fractal some time later instead. It feels like a huge waste to not do those two fractals.
Actually that is false. Read here on the genesis of magic in the world of Tyria.
Take that article with a grain of salt. I see a lot of speculation up there still, despite a tag warning of lack of confirmation of facts being removed.
If we’re operating strictly from ‘confirmed’ facts, then all we really have to go on is the history laid out in GW1, which does state that the gods arrived and brought humans with them. In GW1 it is not even hinted that any other races worshipped the human gods.
The article heavily relies on Thruln the Lost’s dialogue which is outright confirmed false in a few places, leaving the rest of what he says subject to questionability – no different than the History of Tyria.
And we do have more facts – confirmed and otherwise – other than those two sources. Though overall, it is true that magic is largely unknown in lore. And even then, it’s mis-stating some of the information gleaned from those two said sources, and more or less utterly ignoring other sources, like ritualism predating the Bloodstones, or how places of magical power (the communing skill challenges) tend to relate to places of a lot of death or water, or how two places of magical potency links magic to being innate in the world (Artesian Waters and Krait Place of Power ). The article also utterly forgets the notion of life force being used to fuel magic (see Sea of Sorrows novel and The Founding Founding and even Eye of the North), as well as ignoring the mention by Oola about how We embody magic.
To say all we have laid out in terms of lore on magic is from GW1, that is a very false and dim viewed notion and belief. And if you proclaim that to be the only “confirmed facts” then you’re solely mistaken as there’s actually more confirmed observations in GW2 than in GW1 – primarily thanks to the communing skill challenges.
@Triggersad: The charr do view the human gods as something to fight and try to kill:
Before the time of the humans, it is said the Charr had no gods, no concept of divine beings with more power than themselves. They knew of Melandru, and even had legends that described how she created the world. But to the Charr, these beings were not to be worshiped or feared–they were to be fought, and if possible, destroyed.
Most references made in Sea of Sorrows are to unexplained Points of interests in the game. From Macha’s Landing (warning, reference spoiled on article) to Maw and Pride (and in fact, the other Claw Island PoI too) and even Harbinger.
There really aren’t any references written up in Edge of Destiny, except a nod to GW1.
And Ghosts of Ascalon’s references are limited to cameos of Destiny’s Edge more or less. Though there are subtle hints to later-revealed lore about the charr invasion (multiple Searing Cauldrons when previously thought to be one and only one).
Another popular theory is that the mad asura in the dungeon is a former krewe member of Dessa that she abandoned, and that the fractal is a former lab or something that failed.
What WarriorofAsgard said.
Very possible though a dev slipped that it’s a she.
I wouldn’t mind Evon being the personal nemesis. However, if that’s so, then there’ll end up being a huge change in the gemstore’s in-game lore happening – specifically, who leads the BLTP.
you have a point there yet i prefer to see kralkatorik and visit crystal desert.
I’d much rather see Jormag fought first. It’s most logical to go after Jormag and Primordus who’s had the most time to build up forces – to prevent them from becoming stronger before striking after them. And Jormag is the only Elder Dragon who’s location we know.
There’s really nothing in the living story that implies the story will go into the crystal desert – the story is more related to the dwarves and the shiverpeaks giving Primordus and the Depths of Tyria a more likely outcome than it is to the Crystal Desert and Kralkatorrik.
- There’s branded in the Far Shiverpeaks, where the Brand begins.
Er… the Dragonbrand begins in the Blood Legion Homelands, not in the Far Shiverpeaks which are west of said homelands.
Deldrimor Front would fit with Primordus’ expansion.
I fail to see how given how that area has never held any relation to Primordus at all.
Port Stalwart didn’t have cliffs surrounding it – that was a key point about its descriptions. Rather than being built within cliffs, it was built on high land instead. And I think it’s a bit too close to Lion’s Arch.
Given the cliffs, Garrenhoff – though likely of a different name before – was likely built around the time Lion’s Arch was, given that ports surrounded by cliffs were built while Kryta was in war with Orr.
@OP’s title question"
I doubt Evon’s interest in the past isn’t entirely…religious.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/cutthroat/The-Fall-of-Abbadon/page/2#post2427223
My thought coming from this: Evon is Flame.
We have not started building either Fractal yet. We’ll be starting pretty much as soon as the vote is decided, with all three fractals (Aetherblade, Molten, and Reactor/Abbadon) releasing later this year.
Truth be told, I’d rather get the outcome of:
Reactor, Abaddon, Aetherblade/Molten
Honestly speak,ing there’s just too many short-sided folks who go “oo shiny!” to things. And that’s what the Fall of Abaddon is – it’s an “oo shiny” which is only more impressive or interesting than the reactor fractal on the surface alone. Get into the known lore of both and you’d be demanding the reactor.
Sadly, those that go that deep are very very very few, given how many people I have seen complaining about the lack of context, depth, or appearance of lore in the game. sigh
Please Anet, make the reactor. As much as I’d love to see the fall of Abaddon, I’d much rather see something new.
Though truth be told, I’d rather see the fall of Abaddon than the aetherblade dungeon. That thing was a freaking nightmare. If it becomes a fractal, it must be greatly altered.
I understand the whole beginning is a bunch of tomfoolery to show dislike for the living story having a 3 month focus related to Lion’s Arch, directly or non, I must respond to them…
1. The Support of Minister Caudecus and his Bandits… in the attempt to Overthrow the Queen of Kryta by Engaging in a Ceasefire/Trade Agreement with his Forces (NPCs in Kessex Hills, Human Personal Story)
I think you’re mistaking ceasefire with centaurs for this grotesquely false information. And that is not in an attempt to overthrow the Queen of Kryta (by gods man, capitalize fewer words!), it is an attempt to be rid of all racial biases.
2. The Harbor of dangerous Pirates and Criminals within the City
You act like they let murder occur on the open streets.
They don’t.
3. The Support of the Consortium: A criminal organization that Engaged in the Exploitation of Refugees in Southsun Cove
The Consortium may be profiteering idiots, but they’re not criminals.
And Lion’s Arch was actually working against that exploitation.
4. The Offensive Actions against Canach who was attempting to Combat such an Invasion
By endangering the lives of individuals who could not protect themselves from enraged karka? Right, Canach is such the fallen hero.
5. The Exploitation of Resources around Tyria in direct Competition against Local Governments
…And where is this exactly? The only place they’re using resources from the land themselves is in eastern Gendarran Fields – which, by the by, is their territory.
6. The “Neutral” or otherwise Non-Engagement of Lionsguard against the Elder Dragons in spite of their “Glorified Dragon Bash” Festival
You clearly didn’t see the Lionguard working on Claw Island, or of those that went to Orr. The Lionguard and Lion’s Arch have been quite busy with trying – albeit not well in recent times – to keep the Sea of Sorrows clean of risen. Kryta would have been overrun over a century ago if not for Lion’s Arch (see Sea of Sorrows novel).
7. The Continued Hostile Invasion of the Mists and the Engagement of other Worlds… a War on Tyria elsewhere in the Mists Unjustified
Technically not Lion’s Arch’s doing, but that of the Mist Warriors. And, for the record, they’re defending, not invading.
And lore-wise, we don’t know exactly what those enemy forces are. Nothing makes mention in WvW of other worlds.
8. The Continued Efforts to Undermine Local Governments in order to advance the Power of Lion’s Arch and thus attempt to Engage in the Dominiation of Tyria
Quite the vivid imagination there. No such thing is occurring. Not even an implication.
Actually that is false. Read here on the genesis of magic in the world of Tyria.
Take that article with a grain of salt. I see a lot of speculation up there still, despite a tag warning of lack of confirmation of facts being removed.
If I may turn your attention to this approximate map of Tyria as of 250 years ago. See that poorly-circled red area? That’s the Crystal Desert and the Desolation! The Crystal Desert is (wait for it) a desert. The Desolation is also a desert, albeit one full of sulfur and considerably more death than its Crystal cousin.
Now we get to why all of this matters. You see, that was all water. The Crystal Sea, in fact. Right up until this fall of that Abaddon guy you keep hearing about.
Minor corrections:
The Desolation is considered in some texts to be part of the Crystal Desert. Before Abaddon’s fall, it was the sea’s coastline and home of the Temple of the Six as well as the Gates of Heaven.
Don’t even begin. Another asuran ka-boom.
It’s more than just a ka-boom.
The Thaumanova Reactor is the core foundation of Inquest lore across the entire game.
Hell for all we know, Subject Alpha was made at Thaumanova and is why that place went to hell…
Vote for Thaumanova, and you’ll get a view on how magic works, and perhaps even on the Elder Dragons.
Vote for fall of Abaddon and all you get is a visual of already known lore. Nothing new at all except for what Abaddon looked like pre-fall, and perhaps the other five gods too but who knows.
Main reason I don’t care too much about Thaumanova is because nothing in the game really entices me to ask why. […] There is nothing in that place that I found that really makes me want to know what happened, nothing that tugs on my lore strings.
When not only Thaumanova blew up, but its successor – the Crucible of Eternity – does. It makes you wonder what exactly were being researched at both to blow them up…
Crucible of Eternity blew up because of rampant draconic energies (that’s Elder Dragon magic for you bookahs).
Anet doesn’t make things pointblank, and the Thaumanova lore is across the entire bloody continent, but it’s there and by gods it’s interesting. You explored the place? That’s fine, but the real lore to it is in 3 places not at the reactor – Brisban Wildlands, Iron Marches, and Mount Maelstrom.
So would you rather have no new lore on Abaddon, except appearances, or new lore on the Elder Dragons and on magic itself?
Perhaps link to another dragon. Anything like that.
The ironies. There’s links to five of the six Elder Dragons there. Well, possible links.
The problem with folks and their view of the fractals is that they’re judging a book by a cover. Think about it, would Anet really pit an awesome fractal against a dull one? No. They wouldn’t. They probably have epic concepts for them both planned out already. We know what to expect from the fall of Abaddon and while that may be awesome in its own rite, wouldn’t the mystery of something new be more interesting when that something new is the very core of an entire playable race villain organization, the main threat of the campaign, and the biggest unknown in all of lore (magic)?
Abaddon spread magic to the races, but what is magic? What is chaos magic? The reactor fractal may have the answers. The fall of Abaddon… definitely won’t.
SpeedFiend.4521::He gifted magic to all the races of Tyria (for reasons unknown), then waged war on the five when they sealed said gift in the Bloodstone and shattered it. He alone (and now that kitten able usurper Kormir) knows just what was so bad about the place humanity left for Tyria.
Not quite.
Lore we have tells us that he granted unique magic to different groups, and from this the Margonites became fanatical to worshiping him – to the point of desicrating the other five gods’ shrines in the Temple of the Six.
This act enraged the Forgotten, who in turn waged war on the Margonites. Cue the Scriptures of Abaddon event where Jadoth begs Abaddon to save his life. Abaddon does so, enraged over the Forgotten trying to wipe out the Margonites (why it royally kitten ed him off isn’t clear though).
Due to his intervention, the other Five Gods then conflicted with Abaddon, eventually leading to his downfall.
Mind you, where the whole King Doric pleaded and they divided the bloodstone bit isn’t really known where it falls into this, nor do we know of Abaddon’s reaction to the bloodstones’ division.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
Interesting. The stones themselves (at least what we saw of them in GW1) didn’t really have anything like that to them.
Er… you don’t remember the crimson red spikes coming out of the sides?
Sure, they didn’t have circuling red mist, but otherwise that stone looks like the red parts of the bloodstones perfectly. Same with half of what we see of the Shiverpeaks bloodstone.
The shard itself is similar to the mursaat soul batteries that are attached to them though. I wonder, personally, just where mursaat technology ends and the Bloodstones’ natural form begins.
Mursaat stone is purple or orange (in some cases for the latter; and green in fewer cases).
Bloodstone is red.
Though their materials do seem the same, and I’ve thought such since day one, the stone seems to be naturally formed in the Ring of Fire islands – unless the bloodstone there took up most of Abaddon’s Mouth (the mission area, not the volcano) and further out.
“Brotherhood of the Dragon” is an organization, not a race. It doesn’t mean anything regarding where the members themselves came from.
And your point?
The organization called “Zephyrites” was established by Tyrians, and spread elsewhere to take in a lot of Elonian and Canthan humans.
There is a lot of mis-information, rumor, and clashing beliefs about their existence.
-snip rest-
I wouldn’t say that for sure. With that whole “major plothole” thread folks kept bringing up and complaining about, no one really considered that we don’t have the full story.
Fun fact: we don’t.
I would go more into pointing out which “facts” you present are wrong or speculative, but I’ll leave it at this: read the next GuildMag magazine issue (due to be out Wednesday supposing everything gets done in time). As mentioned in another thread, there’s an interview with Anet. Zephyrites were one question (incidentally, the interview was the day before that short story came out, so there was “new” information there, but now it’s “repeat” – however the interview answers the question of descent and the whole legendary status of the people. But then again, so does pre-existing lore for the sanctum and view of the Zephyrites).
I will say this though: the short story never names Zephyr Sanctum, so why is everyone so sure that is the “new sanctum” being talked about?
Also, its the Zephyrites, not the sanctum necessarily, that is legendary. The sanctum wasn’t sure to exist, but the Zephyrites were.
-snip bit on Dredgehaunt monastery-
Interesting observations.
I had been thinking it to be a Priory base built before the dredge really got hostile to everyone. Don’t think there was any lore, but the angel statues there are from concept art titled Priory 2.
The thing to note about “so much other human lore put under scrutiny” is that ArenaNet has actually been very smart about their retconning of human historical lore!
That is to say: The only human historical records that’s wrong is the stuff introduced to us by Thaddeus LaMounte via the History of Tyria Volume 1. Other than that, it was what Glint told us herself.
The only exception to this statement is a line from An Empire Divided – one that outright states is speculation from an in-universe viewpoint and was known to be wrong upon introduction (that the naval relics in the Crystal Desert (former Crystal Sea area) were suspected by scholars to be Luxon – they were Margonite, and the reason for this is explained further in NF, where a scholar claims Margonites are mere myths). There is one other possible exception, being where humanity arrived on the world first/when humanity first arrived on continental Tyria. Though that bit isn’t outright contradicted yet, in that technically it very well may be that humanity wasn’t on continental Tyria when Cantha reigned prior to 205 BE, and they could have re-arrived on continental Tyria in 205 BE via boats.
So the lore we have on Abaddon’s fall, which comes from pre-NF releases, Nightfall, and Guild Wars 2 is not likely to be wrong given empirical evidence. It very well may be – especially the pre-NF releases since that’s lore written in beta stages or sooner (and is as subject to change as The Movement of the World was, or any manual lore from GW1) – but we have no reason to believe it is when the “false history” is in fact Abaddon’s pure existence.
Edit: Oh, and I think I just found full-proof evidence that what we know of Abaddon’s fall is still accurate:
It matters, but we all pretty much know exactly what happened at the Mouth of Torment.
Nobody knows what happened at Thaumanova…yet.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
We went after Zhaitan because he invaded and was on Tyria’s doorsteps.
Kralkatorrik has not been heard from for now 6 years, roughly. Zhaitan had a head start when he woke with building forces and still took 10 years to invade. We don’t know where Kralkatorrik is – he may not be anywhere close to us anymore, let alone in the Crystal Desert. He was last seen fleeing the end of where the Dragonbrand is, not continuing it so no means to track him if he’s not attacking someone.
Jormag however, has forces ever pushing south, has the focus of born early storyline (branded have none), and his forces have even assaulted Lion’s Arch already. Furthermore, the norn want to go after Jormag and are preparing for such, while the charr are still content on defense and research, not assault. Also, Honor’s Claw ends HotW explorable dungeon paths with “Jormag is coming” effective. Lastly, Jormag has had 200 years to build forces. He is already invading. Kralkatorrik is not.
Jormag is next. Unless Primordus pops out randomly.
They’re of Canthan and Elonian descent, according to the Priory’s records.
It is confirmed that their origins is the Brotherhood of the Dragon.
LOR is based on fallible records of the Durmand Priory, is stated to be a belief, and says most not all.
It was never really stated that Grenth ever had control over them.
There’s at least 11 ships seen on the world map, could be more. The one that’s landed is the largest of those we see though.
I have a feeling that we’ll see a return to the nature of the Sclerite weapons and backpacks when we get more into the plot of the deep sea dragon. I don’t see much reason to go back to Southsun or these things otherwise.
Dragon minions are not immune to corruption, so it wouldn’t be impossible for a dragon champion to be corrupted/twisted by another power (like Subject Alpha, which is influenced by the draconic energies of at least five Elder Dragons).
Though Kuunavang – whom is the “strenuous evidence” of a Canthan Elder Dragon (specifically a sky/star/air related one) – does have one major flaw to her being a dragon champion: she seems to be of flesh and blood, which counters what dragon minions are (sans Zhaitan’s, mind you, though they instantaneously turn decrepit and somewhat rotten). Though words by Anet do hint at Kuunavang being like Glint in being a dragon champion that has broken free of an ED’s will, being of flesh and blood would practically fully counter the notion. Unless her model gets retconned majorly (like how Glint’s was minorly, to go from “looking like crystal spikes” to “being fully crystalline”).
I wouldn’t say 6 years is ruins. And given how Mount Maelstrom has existed for roughly 100 years at least, there’d not be much for a wintery atmosphere.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Bloodseeker.gif
It’s basically just a human-sized (or slightly smaller, maybe asura-sized) version of that.
The Desolation was the Crystal Sea’s coast.
So he wasn’t defeated underwater, but on a coast.
Jormag and the DSD aren’t exactly “near Tyria” – Jormag’s closer, and he’s certainly on/near it now, but not upon awakening.
As for why they were all there, presumably due to the Seers and the bloodstone. During the last rise, the Seers harvested all non-corrupted magic and placed it within the bloodstone. Effectively they were starving the Elder Dragons in one fell swoop, while making an all-you-can-eat-buffet in the form of the bloodstone. The Elder Dragons likely began searching for it and fell into hibernation from hunger (effectively fainting).
Jormag’s ever present movement south despite kodan and life in all directions (unless he started at the very north pole, which I doubt, and is going south in all directions equally) supports this.
As to Canthan and/or Elonian Elder Dragons – there’s evidence, strenuous though it may be, of a Canthan Elder Dragon, however despite this all information tells us that there are only six Elder Dragons. Mind you, this is of jotun records so they may have only been privy to Elder Dragons around continental Tyria, and for all we know Elder Dragons could have been active across the globe for centuries without making prominent activities in known lands.
Just one correction to your post, http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Bloodstone there are still two Bloodstones not accounted for. Not saying the one in the throne room is one haha but there are two MIA, if you will.
Erm, how is that a correction to my post? Never made mention of the number of bloodstones. Either way, whatever that stone is from, it was moved from its original location. Moreso if it’s a bloodstone since that’d be the furthest reaching bloodstone reached.
What I said is that the stone in the throne room couldn’t be a bloodstone because the colors – and for that matter, materials (bloodstones are more like a blood-red glimmering gem encased in stone presumably made from the lava of the Ring of Fire as the color matched RoF’s stone) – are different.
Given how all the bloodstones come from the same thing, they’d all be of the same material and, unless the thing was practically rainbow colored (which given how 3 of 5 bloodstones, and several bloodstone fragments are not), all the stones would be made of the same material and color.
I believe we’re told that the keystone was the one that fell back into the center of Abaddon’s Mouth (the volcano)
Player speculation since day 1. Nothing and no one says which bloodstone is which.
I wouldn’t put it past ArenaNet to change the look of the bloodstones to make it more of what they envision it to be.
Explain the bloodstone shard in Arah seer path, which is of the same color and material as GW1’s bloodstone’s red portions. Which again shares the Bloodseeker exotic focus model.
Or explain the red icon for the Bloodstone Shard’s icon bought from Miyani.
As said above, the bloodstone was once a single, albeit very large, stone. So the color and material of the Bloodstone Shards would be that of the larger fragments.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
As far as I’m concerned, their physical departure denotes their withdrawal of attention as well. I don’t feel like pulling up a scattering of quotes, but I’m fairly certain there are many instances to be found of people wondering whether the gods still even give a care about them. There’s also the clear cut example of the White Mantle to give evidence to the faltering faith of the people, which it has essentially turned into, a faith, since the gods’ interactions with Tyria have dropped so dramatically that people can actually doubt them and switch to a different following (where for some, it wasn’t a faith as their gods were there before them).
Then explain the presence of the annual appearance of the avatars of Dwayna and Grenth, as well as the occasional favor of the world and avatars summoned at statues and by priests in temples (per GW2 Orrian lore – for Grenth at least)?
The gods physically left the world, but their avatars were constantly present. The faltering faith may have been more based on the fact that the mursaat were among them, the Five Gods weren’t and their avatars appeared at selected placements, which including not when humanity needed help to survive the charr assault.
What about Underworld? Fissure Of Woe?
Aren’t the Mists somehow connected to the God realms?
There are hints that these God realms have now fallen into chaos, now that the Gods have left, and the belief is waning. For example, in Queensdale you can see various monsters appearing from the Underworld, which no longer seems under Grenth’s control. But the God realms clearly still exist.
I wouldn’t necessarily say they’re in chaos. The Underworld creatures coming from the Underworld aren’t exactly unnatural appearances. Demons are naturally attracted to portals of the mortal realm, so it’s natural that natural inhabitants of the Underworld (Aatxes included) would seek existing portals out.
Even when Grenth did have control – even if strenuous – over the Underworld, the Aatxes were still hostile natural inhabitants.
This said though, while the realms of torment, war, and the dead are the realms of the gods (presumably as are the seldom mentioned Eternal Paradise and the once-mentioned “realm of travail” mentioned in the Sea of Sorrows novel off-handedly), it is known that the gods are not in these locations – they aren’t found anywhere in the Mists, in fact. This is an additional part of the whole “the gods are silent/have left” – no one knows where they are, and they cannot even contact the avatars (until GW2).
The Zephyrites docked in the Labyrinthine Cliffs, and then a market thing happened. Or the market there is a seasonal thing and the Zephyrites just decided to show up there this time.
The Bazaar of the Four Winds is always spontaneously occurring not really a seasonal thing, though it’s not very clear if the Bazaar formed there because of the Zephyrites docking or the other way.
- Is this a colony of Canthan origin? (architecture seems to indicate a connection.)
- Is the housing in Labyrinthine Cliffs temporary, and just used when the market takes place?
- Did the Zephyrites spontaneously build housing there? (I didn’t think Zephyrites had any connection to Canthan architecture. Also, … nothing they say indicates that the Zephyrites are the locals here.)
I guess my actual question is: how the hell do the Labyrinthine Cliffs locals get from A to B when the Zephyrites and their wind/sun/lightning aspect masters aren’t standing around with their crystals, which should be for most of the year?
I suspect it’s situation 2 or 3, or both – temporary buildings built by either the Bazaar and/or the Zephyrites. Point being though, it doesn’t seem to me that there are locals in Labyrinthine Cliffs. All of the generic NPCs are called Stranger, Merchant, Zephyrites, or some kid-crook term (Urchin, etc.). I don’t recall seeing a single NPC called “Local.”
For the reaching the buildings thing… that’s actually true for most towns and cities. Players just couldn’t normally reach them, yet they’re there. Garrenhoff and Divinity’s Reach are two cases coming to mind instantly. One can only presume that there’s some sort of staircase or building leading up that we don’t know of.
Who lives in the Labyrinthine Cliffs (ex-Zephyrites?) and why do they build crazy architecture like really high up housing?
I suspect no one, but there could easily be some.
It may even be the Zephyrites former Sanctum from before they found Glint’s corpse.
Bloodstones are red – all three found, red with black or gray to them, and the bloodstone shards in GW1 are similarly red (and in fact use the Bloodseeker exotic focus skin).
That stone’s white and gold.
Though iirc, there was a comment somewhere that it was designed to be reminiscent of GW1, I don’t think anyone’s ever figured out what it was. It isn’t explained in the human story arcs though – I’ve played through them all. :/
An issue with your reasoning: If that was a bloodstone, it’d be in the power and possession of the Krytan throne. The White Mantle have some connections (directly or indirectly) to the Ministry, and are outright rivals to the throne.
Edit: I just realized what it looks like. There are some designs in the Maguuma Jungle, where you can place a seed to summon the druids’ spirits. It’s also used in some of the resurrection shrines. The patterns seems similar from my memory alone. Would have to go into GW1 to see for sure though. But this would be a massively large version if so.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
Technically, Leon, while the gods physically departed from the world, they kept in contact until sometime shortly after 1078 AE, exact year unknown. They didn’t have a “sudden resurgence” in attention.
Abaddon returning when he did likely had to deal with that being how long it took for him to regain strength and get minions into the world. While he got at least the demonic fortune teller and a (few?) titan(s?) out into the world to cause the Jade Wind and get charr to follow him by proxy, it took the charr 200 years to be ready to set off the Searing, which in turn meant 200 years to set off the Cataclysm and go for the Flameseeker Prophecies – which at the very least the Fury knew about, and had prepared an invading force of Titans ahead of time (according to one of the NPCs in the Foundry of Failed Creations – a Forgotten that doesn’t know why the Door of Komalie opened, or just as suddenly closed).
I believe that the events of the Searing is what got Abaddon to go about and set the stage for Nightfall in one invasion after another. The charr was the only force he couldn’t directly control, and the charr themselves needed time for the Flame Legion to take over the other three legions as well as enchant the Searing Cauldrons – and both likely took time. Once the Searing occurred, they knew the events of the Flameseeker Prophecies were unfolding; he got Khilbron to sink Orr (knowingly or no), and got Shiro Tagachi to accept the 200-year-long-offered position as an Envoy, as well as having the Darknesses invade the Hall of Heroes, and the Fury – when the titans failed – go after the celestial essences (I believe these two latter actions were to be a food/energy resource gathering, like the damming of the River of Souls, while the other three were a “take over the mortal realm/weaken the barriers” actions).
It’s also mentioned in the NF gw.dat that Abaddon was remaking his body throughout the campaign of Nightfall – when Varesh performed each ritual, one of the gates in the Realm of Torment unlocked (I believe it was Pain, Anguish, and Fear mentioned), which allowed Abaddon to rebuild part of his body.
So I don’t think there’s a big question/reason behind why Abaddon attacked when he did. He just attacked when it was ready.™
That’s presuming that the gods’ magic can even be devoured by the Elder Dragons. It may hold origins to the Forgotten’s magic, which couldn’t be corrupted by the Elder Dragons. Or to the golden orb of light in NE Malchor’s Leap (which personally reminds me of the Hall of Heroes’ “unearthly glow” in the center that replaces the need of a sun, and the Hall of Heroes being fully golden…).
I won’t bother with spoiler tags since half of the thread is containing such, so be warned descriptive spoilers incoming.
Given the descriptions, we know that it is in northern Sea of Sorrows, and likely west of Lion’s Arch, it was formerly on shallow reefs but high ground, and it’s near a jungle. It was also used as a vacational port, more or less, and is said to have had a good view before the flood.
Given that Cobiah knew where the Dead Ships came from when Port Stalwart was besieged, I doubt he’d go in Orr’s direction when escaping, yet he ended up along the Maguuma coast after nearly a week of fast sailing to escape the Harbinger (likely not in a straight path). And the closest port he was to at that point was Rata Sum.
We also know it’s some distance away from Orr – far enough for both it and LA to be suspected to have survived the tidal wave, given the known height of the thing even with the fact it was on high ground wouldn’t itself make it believed to have survived if it was nearby. Yet it was also close enough to be the first of four known major ports on the Sea of Sorrows (Port Stalwart, Port Noble, Lion’s Arch, and Rata Sum) to have been attacked – mind you one was decimated at the time.
Sources for above:
Page 75: Makes mention of the shallow harbor of Port Stalwart, and is one of two suspected harbors to have survived the tidal wave. The page also makes mention of the Havoc being pushed so far north from said tidal wave that Lion’s Arch is the best option, with Port Stalwart being second.
This tells us it’s not along the southern Maguuma coast, nor on the western coast of Tyria – it’s definitely within the Sea of Sorrows, within reach of the tidal wave.
Page 92 and 93 make mention of the design of early ports versus newer ports, Stalwart being of the later and stating “Stalwart’s newer, designed generations after the Orrian peninsula was destroyed. Despite its doughty name, Port Stalwart is a vacation town, not a fortress. It’s built to have an oh-so-pretty view.”
This tells us it didn’t exist in GW1, and it was built in a place that during GW1 would have been shallow waters with high ground off the coast.
Page 124 states that asura use it when going from the Maguuma to Kryta.
This tells us that Stalwart is definitely closer to Rata Sum than Port Noble was, which was in Bloodtide Coast.
Then there’s page 170-2 which makes mention of their location and time after the Port Stalwart attack, and makes mention that they were between Rata Sum and Port Noble.
Which again confirms/implies that Stalwart is east of Noble, given that the Salma’s Grace left Noble before Stalwart was sacked and still behind the Pride.
Page 123 makes mention of a lagoon, and two waterfalls coming from a forest.
This tells us that on the GW2 map, there should be a lagoon and 2 water falls near wherever Port Stalwart was. Likely ruins too, unless they got removed. I don’t recall such a place in explorable map. Likely, in GW1, there’d be the waterfalls too, though perhaps not a lagoon.
However, I do see a spot in the fogged up area of the map which could count as a lagoon, that’s near a forest, and with access to the Sea of Sorrows in a possibly-open-but-protected manner: south of Kessex Hills, east of Caledon Forest, just on the outside of the Tengu wall in the fogged corner where Kessex and Caledon and the Dominion of Winds meet. There’s a nice blue blot, that can easily be a lagoon. If the Dominion of Winds wasn’t there yet – which the book makes no mention of at all and we know the tengu arrived on continental Tyria after the tidal wave (and given how Edair was only focused on Lion’s Arch who “stole Krytan land” I presume the tengu settled the Dominion of Winds either with diplomacy, which seems unlikely given what I recall, or after 1256 AE).
I bet that is where Port Stalwart was.
Given that there are largos in the northern Shiverpeaks, as far north as Frostgorge Sound, and the quaggan from the arctic seas know of the largos, there aren’t just largos as far north as the charr homelands, but even further north of the Blood Legion Homelands.
Not just that Taiwanese NCsoft site for GW1 that got taken down years ago, but other pre-release lore, as well as other lore on him too. And one can see in Temple of the Forgotten God via Devotee of the Deeps, as well as it being the reason why the Margonites revered him so much.
ArenaNet’s answer to both questions would be that the gods have stepped back so that humanity can grow on its own. As such, unless the race(s) actively seek the gods out, you can’t expect a return, and the Elder Dragons awakening at roughly the same time the Six Gods stopped making contact with Tyria fully is as far as all lore tells us, purely coincidental.
Doesn’t mean that’ll be the case in the long run, but that’s the situation as Anet has decided to go for now. The belief that humanity holds for why the gods left and perhaps if they’ll return.
Uhm…why should we do that?
An interview will be published which, incidentally, touched upon this.
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