Guild Wars 2

No, that’s seen in Arah story, if you can jump through the “insta-kill” area of the map, you’ll hit water and swimming down you can find his corpse. It’s tricky though, and it is not lore.

One of the Marriner Plaques (east of Claw Island Portage Waypoint) answer this, stating that the Maw was an undead Leviathan.

Fun fact: You can actually see the wreckage of the Pride and the Maw in Claw Island instances! http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Claw_Island the PoI called “Pride and Maw” is the wreckage and corpse, and the corpse is huge, though sadly it is at the edge of the accessible area so you cannot go up to it, merely see it from a distance. I noticed it a couple months back and was very curious as to what it was. Finding out that it was part of the third book was quite fascinating to me.

Another fun fact: The Maw’s corpse is the same as many of those large fish bones found throughout the game (such as being in abundance at The Long Way Around mini-dungeon’s end).

Also no, FlamingFoxx. It was caused by Khilbron reading the Lost Scrolls – motivated indirectly by the plots of Abaddon – which is only said to have stored magic from before the Bloodstone’s creation (do note: this is from the History of Tyria lore which was the very first lore document we had more or less that also claims that the Five Gods (not Six) created the world and the Bloodstones; so the Lost Scrolls would have been empowered, according to said document, in 1 BE).

The source of the Lost Scrolls’ magic is still relatively unknown. However, it is said to have held no affect on Zhaitan (the Cataclysm that is). And given the mentality of the GW1 undead, they are highly unlikely to be Risen, which are all undeniably fanatic for Zhaitan and Zhaitan alone.

Actually, they’re not even necessarily evil from our characters’ point of view – most NPCs view them as a literal force of nature. Something that’s supposed to happen – kind of like they’re a physical manifestation of Fate. And though they may be intelligent, this is still possibly true.

But even if it isn’t, we only view them as evil because we only see their actions, not their reason. While one may think that’s an objective way to look at it, that’s not really true. To determine if someone’s guilty in a trial, the judge and jury must not only look at what was one, but why it was done. If that weren’t the case, then killing in self-defense would be irrevocably evil.

The Elder Dragons are not exempt from this fact. We know their actions – and their actions in of themselves are indeed on the evil side of the moral scale – but we know nothing of their action; and just like how killing can be deemed “not evil” in certain circumstances, so too could the Elder Dragons’ actions.

Awareness and intelligence doesn’t mean you can’t stop instinctual action. “You still need to eat and sleep right? But you’re intelligent and self-aware! You shouldn’t need to do that to live!” It’s kind of like that, how I see your response to my question.

The Elder Dragons eat magic, and effective crap out corruption. As far as we can know, them acting “evil” is no different then you eating an apple then going to the bathroom a few hours later. I wouldn’t call that evil.

Mind you, I doubt that is what’s actually happening, but it is very much possible.

Gandarel, I was actually countering your claim. We only know Glint was once called Glaust. But never a specific “when” – so your claim that her becoming corrupted is when she was renamed is utterly unsupported. The wording, Iirc, actually implies that she was renamed when freed of the corruption, not when she was corrupted.

Those three only burned down a single building, and the arena has since been removed – replaced by the asura gates in Fort Marriner.

Also, who is Charnac? Do you mean Canach?

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

If the Elder Dragons are not evil, why do they need an army? Why do they need to corrupt other beings to begin with? Why do they manipulate other beings into doing their bidding?

If something does not know how to do something other than to try to make everything like themselves, does that mean it is evil? Is a Totalitarian Utilitarian or Well-Intentioned Extremist evil? Some say yes, some say no; some still – or rather, everyone whether they realize it or not – say it depends on the situation.

I mean, we know what the Elder Dragons are doing – they’re twisting things to become fanatical devotees of themselves – but we don’t know why. When considering whether the Elder Dragons are “evil” or not really boils down to two things:

1. Does the end justify the means? In this case, we know the means is pretty darn evil. But what’s the Elder Dragons’ intended end and why reach there?
2. Are the Elder Dragons even capable of acting otherwise? Can they be negotiated with, turned away from their current path, somehow redeemed (but perhaps refusing to do so), or are they just incapable of acting unlike how they are now?

Whether or not the Elder Dragons are evil really depends on these two questions.

You can kind of do the same with with Canach. Is Canach evil? Misguided, for sure, but evil? The Elder Dragons can very much be akin to him – trying to do something good for the world, but causing harm to the inhabitants of the world instead (or “as well”).

Well I was at first referring to the whole “its in the future” of Bladerunner, and in the concept art you got neon lights and what looks like an artistic version of blurred vehicle taillights.

Robots that can be mistaken as humans is a rather easy concept for GW to go for TBH, supposing that the AI/programming can be made well enough.

It’s a Pact airship. Wreckage matches the same seen in Arah dungeon and the crashed Pact airship event in Cursed Shore.

Well, it may be Aetherblade airship, but it’s an airship that crashed. You can make out its rotor, the frame of the balloon, and so forth.

There’s another mention of Aesgir – a Priory charr scholar near the Priory’s Hoelbrak camp. Then there’s another NPC (a norn) near Hrothbeir’s Rest, though he mainly talks about Aesgir’s friend Hrothbeir, he does make mention of Aesgir.

But most of the whole “Norn’s flight south” is focused on the loss of Owl rather than the leadership of Aesgir. Still, he gets more mention than Usoku, and as much as Joko.

Fafnir.5124:

Sirius.4510:

Do we have any evidence that there ever was a “before” Glint was a champion of Kralkatorrik?

One thing i want to put there is we seen Kralkatorrik only corrupts to make followers not create them. Primordis is only dragon that does so i think so far with destroyers. So to that extent it is possible Kralkatorrik corrupted glint into being a fallower but their is no records of pre preelderdragons rising cause glint helped kill them all. Dwarfs and Dragons are know as the oldest race on terria, hard to have race with only 6 members and no reproduction like to put that out there.

Just something id like to put out there although no evidence.

Hmmm, not quite.

The Shatterer is hollow with blackened rock as an exoskeleton, whereas the branded have their insides turned into crystal with graying flesh surrounding it. They look drastically different, so I suspect that the Shatterer is made from the land itself (and air). The crystal guardian in Ghosts of Ascalon is described in a similar manner – as if the land itself came to life to combat the intruders.

Similarly, Jormag’s known for making minions out of bones and ice – the Dragonspawn is known to be a construct, and the Claw of Jormag appears to be such as well.

If the Movement of the World is still accurate about the DSD’s minions, then that too is an Elder Dragon making things out of inanimate objects (water).

As to the “oldest races” – jotun, mursaat, seer, djinn, karka, Giganticus Lupicus, and forgotten are also as old as the dwarves; roughly (by which I mean “were around during the last ED rise to our knowledge”). With the jotun having been around for multiple dragon cycles (or at least they know of multiple dragon cycles). And there’s nothing that really prevents a dragon race in the distant past from being true. In the Crystal Desert there were a lot of draconic skeletons that were once believed to be Giganticus Lupicus bones (but with Arah, disproven; unless the G-Lupe is merely a group of species). Glint could have been one of these (though a small one). Rotscale and the Bone Dragons from GW1 as well (though those could have also been remnants of Zhaitan’s dragon champions that were killed off too). I wouldn’t doubt there being a really ancient dragon race that got wiped out/corrupted over time.

Technically, Fafnir, that’s only Kralkatorrik. And all that really tells us is that Kralkatorrik is – for some reason innate in his psyche – driven to consume/corrupt.

I have personally taken it to be that each Elder Dragon holds a specific “quality” which they exemplify, multiplied. Jormag and the icebrood have an overwhelming mention of power and strength (which is why the Sons of Svanir are drawn to them); Kralkatorrik via EoD shows an overwhelming desire to obtain (greed); Primordus’ minions have been shown to do nothing but kill and destroy, the Great Destroyer’s purpose of rising early was to wipe out all life on the surface to make way for Primordus, indicating a desire to kill/cause genocide; Zhaitan’s minions often talk about immortality and/or avoidance of the Mists and death through Zhaitan’s favor. It’s interesting, that you get:

Primordus: Desires genocide
Jormag: Desires power
Kralkatorrik: Desires obtaining things (can be viewed as exemplifying greed, or reaching for perfection as a definition of perfection is to be/have everything)
Zhaitan: Desires immortality

Deep Sea Dragon and Jungle Dragon are near impossible to really pull from, given the lack of information, but if my theory that the krait’s prophets are the DSD and its champions, and that the Jungle Dragon is influencing the Nightmare Court via the Nightmare in the Dream of Dreams, then they could be “flooding the world” and “empowerment through surviving pain” respectively.

Braham outright states he has no interest in fighting the Elder Dragons. So unless Rox pulls him along in doing so, I doubt he’ll be aiding the Pact anytime soon. As said, Braham, Rox, and Kiel are likely going to be major forces in the Living Story, and not a “second Destiny’s Edge.” Kasmeer too, I suspect (reason being: Braham, Rox, Kasmeer, and Kiel are all champions iirc – akin to how all members of Destiny’s Edge are Legendaries).

It’s as Aaron said.

There’s a handful of events related to the personal story – a Sons of Svanir Dredgehaunt Cliffs event where they seek revenge for the guy killed in the Durmand Priory lvl 38 or w/e personal storyline. A Risen Captain who you kill for revenge on -insert your order’s mentor here-. And these Risen in Fireheart Rise.

As far as I know, they can only be triggered by players having done those specific personal story steps.

I dunno. Bladerunner esque – or that concept art – seems a bit too advanced for Guild Wars.

Then again, we already have golems. Who’s to say that the Canthans can’t make more human-like AI, and use mesmer magic to make them look indistinctly from humans?

Zale.9645:

Hjorje.9453:

Konig,

On your post above, the living story is going to be used to open the map and get the next dragons and possibly the other continents. These was a dev talking about it a few weeks back that is what they are going to try to do. Currently this is their plan and will not be doing expansions if it works out the way they want it too.

Well…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/GW2-unlikely-to-get-expansions-Interview/page/2#post2343665

Peculiar. Haven’t seen that.

I am doubtful that they really will be getting enough money long term – at some point, nearly everyone interested in the game will have bought it so the sales of the game will slow down, leaving only the gemstore as reliable revenue. And folks are getting annoyed by how Anet’s doing the gemstore (RNG) as it stands… But it does seem that the current open plan is living story over expansion… which I am not too keen about when “new maps in the Living Story” equate to Southsun Cove and Labyrinthine Cliffs.

Still, don’t forget that there was an NCsoft report of a GW2 expansion for later this year. It may be that they do have an expansion of some sort in the works, but want to keep it under complete wraps for some reason.

Aneirin Cadwall.9126:

Nail on the head. I take it you have a problem with acknowledging that you are capable of both good and evil? The best we can do is maintain a proper balance. Just don’t expect ArenaNet’s dev team to handle that. :P

The capability to do both good and evil != evil is innately natural and at the same time the capability to do good and evil != any form of taking away is evil.

That is just your opinion of what construes as “evil” – just as I have my own view on what is good and what is evil, and how to define it. “Good” and “evil” isn’t natural, if it were then there’d be no subjectivity to it. It’d be absolutes. To you, what is good may not be so to me; and similarly, what is evil to me may not be so for FlamingFoxx.

Your very definition of what counts as evil marks all life in existence as evil, and since all life performs evil for the sole sake of not starving to death, no life in existence can be good, because they perform evil tasks at least three times a day on an average basis. And furthermore, in order to gain something, you must take away from somewhere – as you cannot create out of thin air. Therefore if “taking” is evil, then “giving” would be good, however if you give then someone else takes. By trying to be good, you are making others evil by your “simple” definition. And in turn, by making someone else do evil, that in of itself would be taking their right to not do evil, therefore making you evil. In other words, there is no such thing as a “good” action in your definition of good and evil – everything we can do is nothing but evil. Even if we sugercoat it as something good.

Fairly pessimistic when we use your philosophy. But that’s why it is your philosophy rather than mine. In a similar manner, I told a friend about my philosophy on life and religion, and while I view it as resulting in a carpe diem view of the world, he goes “that’s very nihilistic…”

Anyways, as someone who has a peculiar interest in Philosophy as well, I will state that you are making one entirely fatal flaw in your statement of what construes good and evil, and that is that you refuse to admit the subjectivity of it. You believe you have “the answer” which makes you arrogant and viewed as egotistical. Ironically, this is how I’m often viewed in regards to lore theories (for various reasons, some of which I cannot legally mention!).

BrunoBRS.5178:

pact resources are mostly in orr or near orr. with orr cleansed, transferring those resources through the elon river would be much faster than across the continent (even if gates are built, there’s only so much material that can be transferred at once, and there’s a size issue too).

There’s a decent amount of Pact resources and forces in Frostgorge Sound. With their aircrafts and asura gates, I doubt it’d be that much work to move them to the more pressing of the two Elder Dragon threats between Jormag and Kralkatorrik.

As FlamingFoxx said, all that beta stuff means is that it was intended for him to have been killed off. Whether or not that’s the case now is fully up to debate though.

Aneirin Cadwall.9126:

Oh, and good and evil are not socially defined. They are instinctual. Evil is taking away (things, lives, truth). Good is giving back.

By this claim, every single living being on this planet is “evil.”

Carnivores are evil because they kill to eat meat, which they must to survive.

Herbivores are evil because they kill plants and eat them, stealing the fruits and seeds to eat them as well, and again they do because they must if they want to survive.

Omnivores are the same.

Congratulations! You just said “life as we know it is entirely and ultimately evil!” And that includes you!

Welp, folks, Aneirin Cadwell is evil. Lets go end his reign of tyranny!

Not that’s shown. Zephyr is just something related to air and sky. The Catehdral of Zephyr is Dwayna’s temple, who is the goddess of life and air. Then there’s the Season of the Zephyr, aka spring, which is tied to the element of air and related to Dwayna. Finally we have Zephyr Sanctum, which is in the air.

The only relation other than the name is the air/sky based theme, which is why the word “Zephyr” is used.

Amadan.9451:

if dungeon were soloable i would spend hours in there exploring every single bit of it clearing every mob i encounter, just like i do in single player games… so far this is achievable only via wiki and the wiki about these dungeon is very lackluster

You aren’t the only one…

I actually have done that in GW1 dungeons and even elite areas. Staying behind to explore every tidbit I could…

Technically, Matthew Medina only said he was defeated.

Unless you refer to something other than that post in these forums.

WP is far from a good source. Like the GW2W, WP combines speculation and fact together so you’re unable to tell the difference. It can work as an introduction, but don’t believe everything that’s said without some grain of salt on hand. Preferably lots of it.

The only link between those beasts and the Jade Maw is that the Jade Maw is a kraken (outright stated by Anet in update notes) and the Eidolons/Ice Beast/Phantoms use the same model as krakens in GW1.

All we really know is that they convinced the dredge and Flame to work together. Or supposedly. Nothing really says that the “city person” was the personal nemesis.

BrunoBRS.5178:

if the dragons were the only reason we aren’t moving to other continents, we’d be heading to cantha already.

Why Cantha? There needs to be a plot device to take us there. Many folks believe we’ll go to Cantha first just because it was the order of GW1, but honestly, Anet can take us to whatever direction they want.

Or no where at all. There’s dozens of enemies and plot points in continental Tyria that should get wiped out first, and Anet’s just adding more enemies to the continent lately.

As to undead after undead… well, if we really want to think about it, every single game has had a major enemy or influence of undeath and/or ancient evil. Prophecies: undead, mursaat (ancient), and titans (ancient); Factions: Shiro (“ancient”), Afflicted (“undead”); Nightfall: Joko (undead), Abaddon (ancient), Margonites (ancient); Eye of the North: undead (in dungeons); Great Destroyer (ancient); GW2: Zhaitan (ancient undead!).

And people are only tiring of undead now. 8D

Johnny Boi.4980:

I’d say for Mordremoth: Slightly more than hinted – as Colin specifically called it the ‘Jungle Dragon’, and mentions the Maguuma Jungle itself.

Never heard of the term “red herring” have you? Could be he just meant that there’s influence there, and it is through that influence that we’ll first get solid hearing of him, not that the dragon himself is there.

Given Anet, I wouldn’t doubt such a thing.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

It is not impossible. The Forgotten definitely were allied to Glint during Prophecies, but if they had a hand in releasing her from the influence…. I don’t know. But I haven’t read the books, so I’m not sure what the book says about Glint exactly.

The Forgotten did free Glint from Kralkatorrik’s influence – part of the Arah explorable dungeons (Forgotten path). The question FlamingFoxx was asking, I believe, is if freeing Glint was meant to be a “test” to determine if they could do the same to an Elder Dragon, to hit them while they were sleeping.

GW2W is poorly maintained in terms of lore articles, especially in the past few months (go figure given that’s when a certain event happened 8D).

For historical lore, it’s best to go to GWW like Gregorius said. I and others have spent years to make that as comprehensive as possible – though there are still places where it lacks, mainly in overlooked lore dialogues and the like.

A good place to start on GWW would be:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lore
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Category:Lore

Just go through all the links in both, and then do so again in all linked articles. It won’t give you everything but it’ll give you a lot.

For GW2 lore, it’s best just to talk to all the NPCs and objects, read all of the dialogue, and pay attention to what’s happening. You need to always pay attention to the surroundings to get everything in GW2, and don’t believe NPCs outright – Anet has adapted the notion of “subjective truths” since the development of GW2 (so this isn’t the case in GW1 unless GW2 says otherwise). So if you see one NPC contradicting 3 others, that one NPC will be wrong in most cases.

The only articles adequatly, but still not completely, fleshed out on the GW2W are the major and sympathic races’ articles.

Black Dragon.3784:

I know glint belongs to kralkatorrik, but glint is a dragon made of ice. Which brings up my question, Isn’t kralkatorrik’s minions suppose to be electric?

Glint is made of crystal as others have said.

Kralkaotrrik’s minions are to be made of crystal, not electric. Kralkatorrik is the Elder Crystal Dragon. They just have a heavy electric “sub-theme” but electricity is actually a minor aspect of Jormag and Zhaitan as well – in places of heavy Elder Dragon corruption, you can see electricity shooting between said corruption. Best seen in Arah, Snowblind Fractal (at the shaman fight), and in Drakkar Spurs. Branded also have a heavy reliance on earth and fire magic though, so Kralkatorrik’s minions are overall purplized elementalists, but they’re all turned into crystal. Exception being The Shatterer who’s just blackened rock (I suppose that could count as crystal) and purple aether – though his attacks are certainly crystal.

Gandarel.5091:

Glint was originally known as Gaust, who existed completely independent from the Elder Dragons, until Kralkatorrik corrupted her, that’s the point where she got the crystal-form and her new name.

Lutinz.6915:

I thought Gaust was her name when she was a champion of Kralkatorrik. Where do we learn that Kralkatorrik corrupted her and that changed her name?

We never actually learn when Glaust’s (not Gaust) name was turned to Glint.

I always took it to be her new name after being freed of Kralkatorrik’s will. But all we’re said is that her original name was Glaust.

Well, the whole “blocking out the sun” is just a thing about its pure size. Any Elder Dragon can do that. Hell, Zhaitan was doing that for 100 years by darkening the sky above Orr (actually, I think it’s said the sky’s been dark over Orr’s waters since the Cataclysm, so make that 250 years! And we know it’s Zhaitan’s doing thanks to the fact that the sky starts clearing up in Arah explorable, mainly Forgotten path).

Onto the Living Story part itself. It seems rather obvious that the Zephyrites would hold some ties to Kralkatorrik, given that they’re related to Glint, a former champion of Kralkatorrik. However, I do not think that the Living Story will be related to the next expansion, nor do I think that it’ll be tied to the Elder Dragons. This is really baseless, but so is presuming it’s related to either. I am really suspecting that the expansions will be dealing with the ED (in new maps), while hte living story deals with non-ED threats (in old maps, or new small ones).

As to the blocking off to Elona, that’s technically not true, and rather outdated. What’s preventing access is the combination of four things: (1) Zhaitan’s forces in the southern CD, which are warring with (2) Joko’s forces; simultaneously, (3) Kralkatorrik’s forces are heading towards the CD, and his influence is supposedly still there and (4) Queen Jennah of Kryta and Captain Sammuelsson, Duke of Ebonhawke has blocked all access into the Crystal Desert via the Desert Gate claiming that there’s a recent “dark presence” that’s unknown (if it weren’t for the “unknown” part, I’d claim Joko or Kralkatorrik – or both).

Personally, I think it’s either going to be Jormag next – because he’s (1) the most offensive of the remaining five, (2) we know where he is, and (3) he has already assaulted Lion’s Arch indirectly (Priory storyline) which is what got us to finally assault Zhaitan – or Primordus – because (1) he’s been around the longest so he’s likely have had time to build up a large and strong army, (2) the Destroyers have “recently” been popping up all over continental Tyria signifying that the stone dwarves are nearing or are on their last leg in the Depths of Tyria, (3) he’s had 200 years to consume six asuran cities (and who knows how many isolated asuran labs) that’re on par to Rata Sum and full of magical artifacts of the asura, and (4) he’s now attacking the Dominion of Winds, a major racial city. Alternatively, I can see the expansion going after Jormag, Primordus, and Kralkatorrik. A swift sweeping motion to eliminate three threats through the expansion’s plotline, to open up going into other places and plotlines. Or alternatively, it’ll go westword focusing on Malyck, Mordremoth, and the White Mantle. But I doubt that last one personally… for now.

Technically: we don’t know where Mordremoth (aka Jungle Dragon) or Kralkatorrik are. Same with Primordus and the DSD.

Mordremoth is hinted at being in the Maguuma Jungle, but there’s always off the western edge of the map as well as in the Maguuma Wastes or Magus Falls.

Kralkatorrik flew off in some unknown direction after his fight with Glint and Destiny’s Edge, and hasn’t been heard from in lore since. He may no longer be in the Crystal Desert.

Primordus is said to have been clearing tracks of land underground, so he could quite literally be anywhere – even Cantha!

The DSD is only known to have been hinted at having awakened in the deepest parts of the Unending Ocean, with influence in that location. The world of Tyria is big and he could be in any body of water by now, though given the karka he’s likely still south of Tyria. Or west and the karka decided to skirt around the Maguuma Jungle for some reason (or at least those karka, who knows if karka surfaced elsewhere!).

The only dragon we really know the location of is Jormag, and that’s just “north of the Northern Shiverpeaks”.

The Elder Dragons’ motivations is a very peculiar one. There’s many theories and possibilities; I even believe multiple theories on what could be the case.

However, I can’t really see your theory as being likely. Wiping out dominant life to let non-dominant life flourish? If this was the case, then they wouldn’t go about corrupting all life and devouring/absorbing all magic. It’s a fairly round-about way.

Nonetheless, I wouldn’t call them “evil” – not outright. They’re a threat, but unless they’re willingly acting to corrupt and destroy while knowing that doing so is considered “wrong,” they’re not evil. At worst, they’ll likely to be “misguided” – not viewing the races of Tyria as “beings with merit to live” – no different than how humans raise and harvest cattle (the Reapers were, in ME1 and 2, exactly like this – they effectively farmed sentient life, not viewing them to be of merit; what would you say if cows suddenly started a revolt going “you’re evil for killing us!”).

The Jade Maw is the GW2’s revisioning of the GW1’s krakens, (which back then was just a re-used model of a Phantom – a squidly ghost) present in large numbers in The Jade Sea.

I’m sure all it is, would be a representation of the Jade Sea during the 200 or so years in which it was solid. The mursaat, as far as we’re aware, had nothing to do with Cantha at all. And their jade constructs were not green, but purple – with one latter addition (Jade Cloaks) being the exception.

I’m still going to call Apophenia on this, just like how the lake in northern Maguuma looked like a face (did until they painterly-stylized the map), and such. I don’t really see parts being more detailed as hinting as “we’ll go there” – chances are that Anet’ll just do the same thing as they’ve done with Southsun and Labyrinthine Cliffs when new areas get added – alter that portion of the map. I mean, if you really look at it, the uncovered map is highly undetailed and not exactly higher quality.

Nice trolling (at least I’m pretty sure you’re trolling with this… If I’m wrong, apologies but it’s just that far out of the box). But the ED are big, just not THAT big… And more than a head.

This is something called Apophenia – that is, seeing images out of random patterns that aren’t really there.

Kaineng City is HUGE – it takes up about half of the Factions map as of GW1, and is unlikely to have diminished over the centuries. The tidal wave likely dealt damage to the city, but removed it utterly? No. If it did, then just about the whole of the continent got flooded.

As DavidTurner said, the city was built up high. You had parts built on cliffs, and the city was just built on top of itself as well (which crushed the lower housings, turning them into slums). It wouldn’t be hard to wipe those structures out due to their already poor foundations, but again, due to the sheer among of land Kaineng City covers it would be impossible for the tidal wave to wipe the city out.

I’d imagine that the coast of northern Cantha and Shing Jea would have flooded, given how the Battle Isles were said to have been sunk, but that’s just about it. Sunjiang District, Tahnnakai Temple, Nahpui Quarter, and probably Vizunah Square would have all been safe I’d imagine. The sewers may have flooded over a bit though for a time.

Dwarves come from Norse mythology originally, in which they were also often referred to what is translated as “dark elves” (go figure). In Norse mythology, dwarves/dark elves were underground blacksmith miners who lived underground simply due to the fact that they couldn’t survive above ground. Y’see, when a dwarf wakitten directly by sunlight, they would turn into a statue – it was death to the original concept of dwarves to touch sunlight.

They may have their hands tied with where-ever they are. They may no longer exist as physical beings. They may not want to face the Elder Dragons due to the whole “dragons consume magic” and the gods are basically “beings of powerful magic.” They may not be wanting to help because they’re tired of answering the humans’ every prayer and plight.

But most likely, they probably don’t want to interfere out of fear of what happened the last time they interferred – the Crystal Sea became a desert, the coast of the former sea becoming a poisonous land where only the dead and demonic can thrive (and wurms/elementals).

Given the fact that we know next to nothing about the family matters of Balthazar and Menzies, or their personality, it’s impossible to say yes or no to that question.

In fact, you have an equal chance of saying yes or no to comparing Balthazar/Menzies to any half-brotherhood where the “good” one is in power of something and the “evil” half-brother is trying to usurp him.

Though looking at Thor/Loki, Loki never wanted to usurp Thor. Not in the original mythology at least. In fact, he was never really that evil of a guy until his wife and three children were deemed “evil” and Loki acted out in anger, resulting in his own imprisonment until Ragnarok – until then he was just your average trickster who enjoyed playing pranks that often went too far.

If you wait for the first VO to begin in cinematics then skip, the dialogue of the cinematic will be in your dialogue box.

As for discussing reprecussions… usually a thread dedicated to that would suffice, as talking about 8 different things in a single thread gets hectic and leads to folks doing what we’re doing now – talking about the dungeons in general instead. Plus, the more interesting ones (Caudecus, Arah) have had their own threads in the past (I believe it’s been more than 3 months since they were posted in, so I doubt you’d find them via search unless you google it).

Ehecatl.9172:

Your necromancer can only do necromancy because Grenth allows it. When Grenth defeated Dhuum and took over as god of death he changed the laws of death so it wasn’t the ultimate finality it is in real life. He made it so necromancy and ressurection is possible. But if he changed his mind necromancy on Tyria would cease to be a thing.

Zhaitan being able to resurrect someone against Grenth’s wishes is actually a huge deal.

Grenth allowed undead and resurrections, not necromancy and resurrections.

Necromancy does more than make undead, so it was likely around before Grenth took over. They just weren’t allowed to make minions – those that did were hunted down (or at least their creations were), same going for those who were resurrected and those who managed to escape a should-be fatal situation (injury I’m guessing). Basically a situation of “if you should have died, or if you did die, Dhuum would ensure you stayed dead.”

But nothing says there was no necromancy before Grenth.

Huh, guess that was added in since I last saw him… which admittedly was around release, perhaps even in the BWEs.

Due to Zhaitan’s actions, necromancers have more or less been viewed with disdain in many cultures, resulting in an already poorly viewed practice being looked down upon even more. As such, with the exception of sylvari, necromancers aren’t entirely too common – though common enough.

Even before Zhaitan though many cultures looked down on necromancy due to the stereotypes that they’re evil (this isn’t just something players have but is viewed upon in lore!) and their association with death and “desecration” with corpses, and how a lot of necromancers go power-hungry/power-hungry wizards happen to be necromancers.

We know for a fact that it isn’t only one vessel. In the map of Labyrinthine Cliffs alone we can see about 11 vessels, including the only one that’s docked. Whether or not the one that’s docked is the “main” ship or not is the question, as is whether or not there’s more out there.

Aaron Ansari

After all, it’s not really part of the plot, just thrown in to give Cobiah’s ship a reason to be sailing.

If that was the point, then they would have gone with Elona since, despite being ruled by a lich, there was no isolation going on with Elona.

I’m still reading the novel (slowly due to this thing called “life”) and I have seen a couple mistakes (like calling the Unending Ocean/Clashing Seas the Sea of Sorrows, and calling the body of water over Orr an ocean and the center of the Sea of Sorrows), but I wouldn’t be so quick to claim this is one.

Aaron Ansari

The few bits we get about Cantha in Guild Wars 2 make it clear that no one has been there since Usoku’s reign. Unless he ruled for over 90 years (and Kisu ruled for a very long time, so he probably wasn’t a young man when he took the throne), the book is mistaken.

Not quite.

Usoku himself is never once mentioned in the game, except for the exotic and Ascended gear items; all we know from the game itself is that since Orr rose no one has heard of Cantha and that the tengu were the last to leave, passing by a risen Orr. Cobiah went to Cantha before Orr rose. No contradictions made to either the game nor the Movement of the World in this.

And given the amount of time Ree put into the book, I doubt that she’d “just toss a port in” when really, even Rata Sum’s port or Elona or the Battle Isles would have worked.

FlamingFoxx

Is it possible that Cantha was still open to trade with Kryta since it was strictly humans coming through? I imagine that as long as none of the other races were coming close to Canthan ports they wouldn’t mind. Trade can occasionally be pretty necessary and I would think the Emperor would have the sense to acknowledge this even if he was a little crazy – exports = profits!

Erukk.1408

Though it would be very minimal, I can see the Emperor allowing legal trade for himself and some high ranking nobles. The things that we all know the rich and powerful can’t go without: spices, foreign fabrics, jewelry, magical items (in a fantasy setting), and books. I don’t see the Emperor allowing foreigners into the city though, much less being allowed to explore it. They would most likely be forced to stay in the harbor, and only the harbor.

Given that Cobiah was on a King Beade-sanctumed ship for trade, either of these two cases could be so, I suppose.

Erukk

Since Cantha closed it borders, I’m sure huge smuggling rings have popped up and grew like weeds. If Cobiah was smuggling in some goods to some criminal syndicate, in one of the darker and seedier parts of Kaineng, I can see them allowing him to explore a tiny bit, as long as he left in a timely period.

It didn’t seem like he smuggling. It reads as a legit trading group, as he openly explored the city.

FlamingFoxx

Pardon me if this is idiotic but nowhere does it actually say “Nobody was every allowed into Cantha”. The only thing that comes close is that the borders to Cantha were closed.

I re-read the original source for this from The Movement of the World to refresh my memory about this:

In the year 1127 AE, Emperor Usoku, successor to Kisu, took a firm hold of his nation. He raised the Canthan military, spending millions in gold to arm his troops, and then swept the countryside. He defeated the Luxons and the Kurzick, incorporating these disparate people back into his nation. Usoku unified Cantha behind a strong national identity and began to drive out all non-humans. His regime was ironclad, tyrannical, and fierce. Those Canthans who did not agree with the emperor’s dictates were given no choice but to leave their homeland, seeking refuge and sanctuary in Elona and Tyria.

As a result, Cantha became extremely isolationist. Once Orr rose from the ocean, those tendencies were reinforced by an inability to safely sail the western seas. Any ships venturing near the Strait of Malchor are sunk by the black ships, then dredged from the ocean floor by the Orrian dragon and commandeered into service. Thus, completely cut off from Kryta, Cantha vanished entirely. Travelers, refugees, and even Xunlai agents residing within Tyrian heard nothing more from Cantha.

So that’s actually a good call on your part, it didn’t say no one was allowed to enter/leave. Just that Cantha became extremely isolationist, which can be taken a number of ways, and they were utterly cut off once Orr rose – which again fits with the book.

If we were to take “isolationist” to merely mean “only let foreigners in for trading purposes” then that would explain everything. But usually isolationist includes cutting off foreign trade, so either it doesn’t in this case or the isolationism didn’t last until Orr’s rise.

Ludovicus.7980:

What I don’t get is why the elder races didn’t try to destroy the dragons when they went to sleep.
I mean Kralkatorrik was just out in the open and the dwarfs did fight in the last cycle. Why didn’t they try to kill it?

That’s something I’ve been trying to figure out myself. But Zhaitan’s location seems to have been unknown to them since they let the Six Gods settle right on top of him without any apparent warning – the same could probably be said for Jormag, the DSD, Mordremoth, and Primordus.

But the real reason I believe is the case is that all four remaining races (as the mursaat were in the Mists at this point) all focused heavily on magic, and at least one of them (seers) were on the brink of collapse. Given the story of jotun from Thruln the Lost, if there’s any credence to the loss of magic leading to the jotun downfall, that could have happened shortly after the bloodstone’s creation then. Which would leave Forgotten and Dwarves thriving, and we don’t know how well off they were after they could stop hiding. And again, such a heavy reliance on magic left them with little weapons except pointed sticks basically. They held no true means of fighting the Elder Dragons any more – as far as we know at least – and even if they did still have magic… the Elder Dragons eat that stuff anyways.

None of them are really in the same location in the globe. Jormag’s to the north, Kralaktorrik’s to the southeast as far as we know, Mordremoth (whom may be slumbering) may be to the west, Primordus could be… well, anywhere, and the Deep Sea Dragon is supposedly south somewhere. Zhaitan was in the middle.