Guild Wars 2

It was said that the pavilion was rebuilt between Act Three and Act Four.

Regarding places, keep in mind that many shops were torn down to make makeshift boats in act four.

The docks being referred to, I believe, are the individual planks out. Macha’s Landing is 3 docks alone.

Cobiah’s House, as I understand it, is the building we enter in Red Alert (Priory storyline, just before Claw Island). It matches description and location at least.

The beat pit was burnt down five years prior to the game. It exists no more. The arena was similarly torn down – in its place stands the five asura gates leading to the Mists (there’s a norn NPC in Fort Marriner that explains this).

Port Noble was where Taidha Covington’s base is – before the risen wtfransacked it. Port Stalwart’s location is still unknown.

Likely removed over the years.

And also keep in mind, regarding location size, that the books make the places seem much large – this is likely due to the game downscaling to make distance traveling seem more reasonable to players. I mean, you wouldn’t want to have to play the game for three weeks+ just to go from Divinity’s Reach to Black Citadel would you? The same likely goes for city sizes and even building sizes.

Stooperdale.3560:

You are essentially making a case that there are no evil creatures in the world since there could be an unknown reason for any evil seeming action. You are saying this is true even if there is no evidence to suggest any unknown reasons. This however this is essentially a worthless argument since we must be able to define evil to have this discussion at all. As soon as we accept that evil could be applied to Elder Dragons if they fit description, then the evidence shows that they are evil.

No, I’m saying that you cannot discern if something is evil or not based on action alone. The motive is also important in determining whether someone is evil or not.

And I disagree with there being no motive to their actions. If the belief that the Elder Dragons are natural forces, then their actions would be the same and their minions would hold no shared concepts between them if any form of personality at all. Instead all minions are fanatical and each set of minions (differentiated by dragon) hold different core value alongside their fanaticism to their dragon – be that core value be upholding of strength, a twisted view on immortality, killing all things, etc.

The difference in core beliefs and actions around the Elder Dragons show that they hold different methodologies which imply a different motivation – granted, they could be each aiming for the same thing with the same motivation but with different methods of obtaining that shared objective, but given how Primordus seems intent to kill all life utterly, while the other dragons are more intent on corrupting life (with the possible exceptions of the DSD and JD), I find this unlikely.

But you are correct in saying we must first define evil to label the Elder Dragons as such – however, we each have our own definition of evil and our own boundaries of what equates evil, so some folks will inevitably say the Elder Dragons are not evil. When it gets to that, unless they fall into a universal view of what can be considered evil, this argument becomes purely semantics and utterly pointless as there’ll be no agreement upon whether or not the Elder Dragons are “evil.”

All we can truly do is decide for ourselves whether or not the Elder Dragons are evil. And to do that properly, one must look at all aspects of the Elder Dragons, not just the surface level of their actions (that they kill, corrupt, and destroy all life around them).

For example, what if the world of Tyria’s original shape is the form of the Elder Dragons’ corruption, and after they first fell asleep other races came in and altered the world, killing off hundreds of the Elder Dragons’ own race in an attempt to make their own world. The Elder Dragons would become the victims, their own natural habitat destroyed and their race mostly killed off. What if their actions is just them trying to remake that natural habitat simply because they need that kind of habitat to survive, and view the other races as invaders who are trying to kill them by destroying their home? The other races would be viewed as the evil ones, wouldn’t they? And maybe them making dragon champions is their attempt to recreate their own fallen and near-extinct race out of those who wish them dead? Would they still be evil if all they’re trying to do is protect themselves from what they view to be a threat to their very existence?

The asura want to rule the world economically. Make all the races dependent on them. They don’t intend to rule by brute force (magical or otherwise), because they know that’d be pointless. You cannot rule over charr or norn easily with strength.

Though it’s only the Arcane Council that truly wants this.

In GW2, most shamans are elementalists utilizing flame magic.

Keep in mind that in GW1, the Shaman Caste was comprised of all four legions. And back then, monks were part of them. But that doesn’t seem to be so anymore.

@Wing Leigh: Guardians and Monks are indeed two separate things, however it’s point-blank stated in Sea of Sorrows that guardians are formed from the combination of monk, paragon, and ritualist magic.

Alleluia.1320:

Also, I think the killing of Glint is proof Kralkattorik’s evil. And its not just the action, but the reasoning that makes him so. She betrayed him to protect people and that’s what he kills her over. B/c his plans were to hurt and/or use those people.

You say “she betrayed him to protect people” Kralkatorrik says “she betrayed me and tried to kill me.”

And we don’t really know what his plans are. Or his intention. We know he corrupts, and the things he doesn’t corrupt he wishes to destroy. But why? Is he just a narcesist taken to extreme levels (“I’m so great that there should be nothing but me and what looks like me!)? Is he just a huge spoiled brat (”mine mine mine!" breaks what cannot have)? Or is it something else, like trying to obtain everything out of greed (“No matter how it’s done, I will have everything”)? Or perhaps wanting to obtain a version of godhood (“everyone will bow down to me!”)?

We just don’t know. And that is what fascinates me personally about the Elder Dragons.

We know Primordus seeks to kill all life. It’s said everywhere that’s what he and his champions are after.
We know Kralkatorrik wishes to corrupt all things and destroy the rest, Snaff diving into his mind shows this.
We know that Jormag corrupts by convincing others to join, given the related skill challenges, dialogue in Edge of Destiny, and certain NPCs dialogue.
We know that Zhaitan promises power and (un)life eternal. The risen in the personal story and Sea of Sorrows show this.
Though we don’t know about the jungle dragon or deep sea dragon’s actions/goals.

But for all the dragons, we don’t know why they’re after these things. We know they don’t care about the lives that end in an effective blink of the eye (now you see them, now they’re dead-by-age!), but we don’t know why.

“Why” is the question here.

And in order to answer that question, we need one of two things: to delve into their minds (or talk to them/their minions who’ll explain such), and to know their origins.

Maybe they’ve learned to not care because they need to devour magic to survive, and it’s always viewed by the races as something harmful to them so they’re natural enemies on the food chain. Perhaps they’ve grown to hate the little insects that prevent them from getting their food, little different than a bear being annoyed by bees that stop the bear from getting at honey. Or perhaps they laugh and twirl their scaley mustache after crushing a band of heroes. We honestly don’t know much about the Elder Dragons – we only know their actions, which allows us to view them objectively, but not subjectively and that is what the question of “is it evil” requires – because evil itself is subjective.

If all we see is a man killing another man, then we would claim man A is evil. But what if man A was killing man B to save someone? Or in self-defense? Or out of revenge? Or even because man A was brought to the brink of hunger and insanity by society and he thought he must commit a crime to survive, that he must steal food and man B got in the way of man A trying to survive? Is man A still evil then?

Similar situation. We see the action, but not the reason.

Korsbaek.9803:

even then some norn females could still be corrupted tho they cant be in areas where there are sons of svanir thoes we would not have run into them atleast not yet

I’d imagine that male icebrood norn would also be killing off female icebrood norn. As seen through Sea of Sorrows, even low-level risen keep their personalities, it’s just altered to have a fanaticism of their dragon. Which means Sons of Svanir personalities don’t change much if at all.

Then there’s also an example in Sea of Sorrows where a risen willingly devours other risen alongside the living, uncaring of the difference, and the nearby risen leader doesn’t give a hoot.

Given the nature of the Mists and Fractals, we might see only Abaddon.

And even if all six are depicted, they aren’t the real gods. So it doesn’t count.

I don’t think the temperature of air or the moisture of it goes through, for whatever reason. In Edge of Destiny, there’s a broken gate that cycles through many places – from frigid to molten areas. No mention of change in the air or whatnot for Logan and Caithe.

The Zephyrites aren’t all knowing. They’re as fallable as everyone else is about second-hand information.

I just found it humorous, wasn’t looking for a response. :P

To our knowledge, continental Tyria had the sole source of magic on the planet during the later parts of the last Elder Dragon rise. The Elder Dragons would naturally be drawn to that location, which would explain why so many are centralized here.

And Primordus isn’t so much as “preoccupied annihilating the dwarves” so much as they’re preventing him from breaching the surface which is something he does want to do, given how the destroyers are breaching the surface in pocketed areas.

There were hills in that area in GW1 too (the transition from Black Curtain to Kessex Peak), though it was not separating the swamps but rather a channel to the swamp’s outlet.

@Exoferatu: No where does it say or hint that the Elder Dragons have regenerative traits. There is no reason to believe that the death of an Elder Dragon would alter their minions in any way – certainly no more than a champion’s death (all that does is disorganize the minions – which is what is said to have happened to the Risen).

Furthermore, no where does it say that there are several Elder Dragons sleeping still – at most, there is one that we know of. But nothing says the jungle dragon is hibernating and not simply just unknown. Similarly, there is no evidence to imply that an Elder Dragon was defeated into slumber in the past.

And Primordus hasn’t reached the surface due to the stone dwarves fighting his forces. The Great Destroyer’s purpose, by the way, was to eliminate all life on the surface. The Elder Dragons are indeed territorial, but they’re also constantly expanding their territory.

Except for Jormag shattering the far Shiverpeaks and Mount Maelstrom’s eruption defrosting the southern Shiverpeaks to have them renamed into the Steamspur Mountains, those mountains remain the same.

The mountains between zones are likely just mechanical usages to act as zone boundaries. Only when they have PoI and caverns within them could you really presume them to be there in lore, and even then only what construes around said caverns and PoI – the large hills between Queensdale and Gendarran, for example, would be such a situation, being a mine.

Nah, it won’t be Kralky and Jorm. It’ll be some risen priestess of Dwayna using Rebirth. :P

Ghosts of Ascalon page 76, from Divinity’s Reach to Lion’s Arch:

It was no more difficult than stepping through the surface of a soap bubble. One moment he was in Divinity’s Reach, the rising sun just cresting the walls ahead of him, the city around him in deep shadow. The next moment he and the others were in bright sunshine, leaving him blinking and raising a hand to protect his eyes. The air itself was different, changing suddenly from the cool, damp morning air to something warmer, fresher, and smelling of salt. […]

From Ghosts of Ascalon, page 154-155

He felt his skin dry as he stepped through the gate. He had not felt damp in seaside Lion’s Arch, but now all of the moisture evaporated from his flesh, and the dry night air, still warm, forced its way into his lungs. Ebonhawke was perched on the edge of the Crystal Desert, and even in the dead of night the residual heat pulled the sweat from the exposed flesh.

From Edge of Destiny, page 88:

Eir and Garm strode through, feeling the membrane of magic snap around them. The sultry air of Rata Sum gave way to the biting cold of Hoelbrak.

From Edge of Destiny, page 143:

Eir stepped from the frigid solitude of Hoelbrak into the bustling heat of Lion’s Arch. […]

EoD isn’t very helpful, but GoA does give a bit more insight into the matter.

I think Sea of Sorrows was the best in terms of writing and story, followed by a close second of Ghosts of Ascalon with Edge of Destiny faaaar back in third.

By lore, I’d probably go with Sea of Sorrows then Edge of Destiny then Ghosts of Ascalon for which had most to least.

Every captain is allowed to bring a second. I’d presume that the Commodore could as well, so Riel would take that position – but seconds don’t have a seat. Based on the novel.

But as Aaron implied – who says all ten seats are to be filled during Captain’s Council meetings?

Edit: Obviously the 10th seat is filled by Captain Smash! 8D

Thalador.4218:

I’m pretty sure many of them are glad for release. You forgot their line of “At last…” which is not ambiguous but quite definite on their view on their own undeath in the last moment of reclaimed clarity – when Zhaitan’s remote control curse lifts from their mind.

In light of this, I’m inclined to believe that “Rest…” is also an exclamation of joyous freedom from torment. The risen were snidely denied of their rest (the souls of some were snatched from the Mists even) after all. They can finally depart and be at peace.

See bolded.

Risen while alive don’t want to die. At all. But if Zhaitan’s influence is removed, then that desire of death may come. Though I doubt that anyone would be wanting death unless undead was very painful for them.

And the “Rest…” line doesn’t sound joyous at all. It just sounds… tiresome. Honestly, as if the risen aren’t dying but being tired out (which would probably fit with the books’ description of risen who’d keep going even if chopped to bits).

Goatjugsoup.8637:

I think of the elder dragons as forces of nature like a tornado or a tsunami. For the most part nothing good will come of them and if there is anything we can do to minimize or prevent their effects of course we would do it but from a rational standpoint they are not evil or good, they just are.

Anet uses that comparison a lot.

But the Elder Dragons are sapient. They are intelligent. They are still greatly different than forces of nature.

Dustfinger.9510:

Nice. great find Gandarel.

Even though Lutinz posted the same link 4 posts above Gandarel’s and it was already being discussed. lol

Six underground cities, one utterly wiped out at least. But by all accounts, it doesn’t seem that they started at the Central Transfer Chamber. We know where the Great Destroyer was during our actions of Eye of the North, but the destroyer threat had already destroyed many civilizations by that time and the CTC fell right when we joined in the conflict – this implies that the Great Destroyer awoke somewhere else and went to Primordus.

I highly advise AGAINST watching WoodenPotatoes’ videos. He makes a lot of mistakes – dozens at time – in every video of his. They may be entertaining, but their accuracy is lower than the wikis, even GW2W.

If you want to watch his videos, take everything he says with ten pinches of salt.

At least at the end of WiK, the bounties didn’t affect Verata’s spawn. Maybe during the spawn changes of WiK, but not before or after.

It should be noted that the short story takes place from years prior to the current events. Either Sareb is lying about Evon having left his legion, Evon lied to her, or he now is a gladium (or his whole warband dissented).

My question would be why we don’t see any of his warband anywhere if they helped him establish the Black Lion Trading Post.

If you want to start from the beginning of introduced lore, I’d go with reading in the following articles in the following order:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/History_of_Tyria (WARNING: a lot of lore from this article has been proven wrong from an in-universe viewpoint, Thaddeus Lamount is far from an accurate source it seems)
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/An_Empire_Divided
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/History_of_Elona
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/GW:EN_and_Now
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Timeline
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Storyline (the various articles within for the storyline of GW1 games)
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lore (a general GW1-viewpoint summary of the lore up to the completion of GW1, more or less).
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Category:History_of_Tyria (the articles here, some listed above already)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category:Tales (the articles listed here)

Word of advice: if it’s on the wiki and doesn’t have an ArenaNet official document tag on the top, take it questionably (especially if it’s from the GW2W) as those articles are fan-written and, in the case of the GW2W articles, the quality of said articles are ever-dropping in terms of lore accuracy and fullness. Be sure to click the links within each above linked article for further readings.

This is only really an introduction to the lore. There is a LOT that you won’t get from these. Most race articles on the wikis have a good amount of lore, but again, since they’re fan made they’re bound to hold mistakes – presumptions mistaken as fact being most common, unnoticed vandalization where folks put in speculation the second most.

I wouldn’t doubt that Vael was an Order of Whispers agent. Nor would it surprise me if the so-called ‘the Order’ was in fact the Order of Whispers.

Vael is known to have had multiple names (known to the Ebon Vanguard as Nathanael, known to us as Vael). He’s said to have traveled to other continents, and is said to be a freelance mercenary from Ascalon working for the Ebon Vanguard (that’s what Langmar believes, at least).

About your first question – in Eye of the North, there were asura in what is now Woodland Cascades. So it’s possible that there are other locations with them.

Don’t know why I hadn’t considered the Uncategorized Fractal being a city built there…

But TBH, it sounds like all of the asura more or less remained in the Tarnished Coast, as those who were in the Verdant Cascades and Umbral’s Grotto were few and mainly explorers.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Advisor_Evellana

She holds the answers to your LA government problems. Modernly.

The Captain’s Council is the ruling body of Lion’s Arch. They, along with the Commodore, wield all the power and authority in this city.
→ How do they both share that authority?
The Commodore has the ultimate authority in Lion’s Arch. However, he rarely makes a decision or move without the support of the Council.
→So it’s the Council who really run the show?
It’s more complicated than that. While the Commodore can’t overrule the council on any one issue, his vote means more than that of the other captains, especially when appointing new council members.
→ So, they truly are separate, but equal in power?
So long as the Commodore doesn’t appoint loyalists to the council, the system works.

→How does one become a member of the Captain’s Council?
Anyone can become a council member – all it takes is wealth, power, and influence. But seats are only up for purchase when a captain retires or dies. Or if someone proves themselves of exceptional value to the city.

I am 100%, 110% even, over 9000% certain in fact, that Verata did not have a random spawn.

If he did, then the thousands of times I went into Kessex, I never saw that alternative spawn.

He only didn’t spawn if you had Galrath’s quests (normal one or the HM version) up.

NPCs not showing their full name is purely mechanical. It’s not lore. There’s a good number of NPCs which only show their first – or last – name.

Minister Caudecus being one such example. His surname, Beetlestone, is not part of his name. His daughter, Demmi, is another case.

Typically, except for sylvari and asura, all major races’ members all have surnames… except in odd cases.

Rox is not an odd case. Her surname is the one from her Pick warband until at the end of the Flame and Frost storyline.

Unless our morals would take into account their morals in which they’d be amoral still.

Gadd has a lab in the statics personal story where a hologram can be found… sadly, it doesn’t look even close to his GW1 model, nor is it even voiced by the same voice actor…

If there’s more than the 2 references to Vekk then neither does the wiki document such nor do I recall such. But it’s been a while since I did the asura storylines.

Crow’s Nest Tavern is a standard tavern where normal folks can go for food and drink. The place closes down when the Captain’s Council is in order, but otherwise it’s a typical tavern.

AFAIK, there’s only those 8 members, which matches the number of captains in the Sea of Sorrows novel – since Kiel and Evon can’t simply buy and prove their way in without the populous voting like it was done in the novel, the process seems to have been changed while the number remained at 8 (with Cobiah’s Commodore successor (likely Dane then Lawson) not taking a Captain’s Council spot alongside Commodore – or at least Lawson doesn’t, as there’s an NPC that mentions the Commodore being an equal but separate body of power in the LA government).

Verata always spawned unless you had the Galrath quest up.

There’s no mention of a lot of side characters from GW1. I mean, until the Ascended item with his name, there was only one off-handed mention of Vekk, and I don’t think there’s any mention of Hayda, Xandra, Olaf Olafsson (though there is one of his daughter), and many other EotN characters.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lost_Treasures_of_the_Dwarven_World
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Working_with_Deldrimor_Steel
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defend_Arcanist_Dremus_from_hostile_creatures

At least three statements of where dwarven architecture is mixed with magic and metal. Kind of a primitive magitech I guess. Though for those specific structures we see, it’s unstated.

Where’d you get the 10 seats? I don’t recall this. Also, Commodore isn’t a member of the Captain’s Council. Presently at least.

Riel isn’t a captain, she’s Lawson’s adviser/secretary (well, that’s her day job).

And Magnus’ second-in-command would be Kiel. At least as far as we’ve been shown in GW2.

There’s more than one shipwreck, Eluveitie, and the one in the screenshot doesn’t look like the Aetherblade airship to me, given how it’s not made of metal and has the hull shape of a sea-worthy boat. It’s also in a completely different location.

Narcemus.1348:

Then again, somehow wooden dwarven architecture has been standing at the bottom of rivers and lakes for how many centuries and haven’t rotted away yet?

200 years, roughly. Compared to the 1,300+ years at the top of the waterlevel (something always submerged will erode in less time than something that’s constantly struck by waves).

Not to mention that dwarves were known for magic and architectural combinations that allowed their buildings to survive centuries and even milennia.

Rox’s surname changed because she joined – to a degree – another warband, the Stone Warband (hence the surname Whetstone).

I find little to no difference in terms of personality between male and female norn. I certainly wouldn’t call female norn “extremely resilient” and male norn not. Both male and female norn are independent in relatively equal quantities, so I wouldn’t say that female norn are more independent either – heck, you got female norn NPCs desperately looking for company and refusing to live alone…

@snakeboy: Really? I guess you don’t read interviews with Jeff and Ree very often. They never speak in absolutes, for the simple reason that they alluded to in this very interview in fact:

we leave a lot of hooks so future designers, future storytellers, ourselves in the future have a lot of potential that we can build off.

Anet has a tendency to keep themselves open, especially in things not stated in the game or books, so that should they or future employees come up with a different idea that’s liked more, they can go with that. If they answered everything in absolutes, then they’re forced to go down that story path irregardless or people will scream bloody-retcon-murder.

@DaMunky: no, they change their surname – sometimes – when joining a new warband. A gladium doesn’t lose his or her surname.

@Drakkon: see my first post. Sareb in the BLTP headquarters in LA states he left his legion. Making him a gladium.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

In my opinion Konig, I would have loved it for there so be some sort of mystical reason why Norn women could not be corrupted, OR (as others have suggested) for there to be a far darker fate for them. I imagined that Jormag was at least building an army, and had strong control over his followers. It’s a bit disappointing that apparently Jormag just lets the Sons of Svanir do what they want, and doesn’t care either way about the fate of his corrupted spawn. I suppose this never the less gives us a better insight in the behavior of the Elder Dragons.

I find the outcome to be disappointing as well, but it just would make no sense whatsoever for norn women and norn women alone (sans sylvari and Forgotten magic) to be immune to Jormag’s corruption. I would have preferred something other than those two.

About the male icebrood possibly killing off female icebrood – I wouldn’t say Jormag prevents that and it’s only the Sons of Svanir killing female icebrood. Rather, I point to Sea of Sorrows and how the Maw as a risen went and devoured dozens of other risen, actively though alongside living.

All Margonite ships would be over 1326 years old at this point. All known Margonite ships were taken apart and made into towers in Thirsty River when the Crystal Sea dried up. Any ship left in a coast would have rotted away by now due to the constant moisturization of the wood. Furthermore, until the past 200-100 years, that area was frozen.

Most likely to be shipwrecks from Orr’s rise.

Given NPC dialogue, the other forces don’t allow room for negotiations, being descriped as evil, unmerciful, etc. etc. Plus, for all we know there’s language and cultural barriers. We know nothing of the “invaders” from a lore standpoint.

Fun fact though… All repair npcs are Arcane Eye agents. Makes you curious what the Arcane Council has invested in the Mist Wars.

I think it’s swarm of Karka by NPCs.

Hall of Heroes was a tournament, akin to gladiators in ancient Rome but not by slaves or indebted folks but adventurers and fighters. See the GWW’s entry on Lord Odran for more.

The Mist War is a war with an unknown force (to characters) that is claimed to be pure evil and trying to invade Tyria.

The only royal surname we have confirmed is Thorn. Though that bloodline is said to have been wiped out with Oswald Thorn aka Mad King Thorn. And that was Krytan at that.

Pavees.7281:

How did the charr first learn or make contact with the titans originally.

We actually already know this, from the Ecology of the Charr and some Realm of Torment GW1 quests. The Burnt warband of the Flame Legion found the titans in Hrangmer, the titans having appeared before them in a “pillar of fire.” This occurred during a time the Flame Legion thought that to fight the humans on even terms, they needed to fight with gods of their own and had sent warbands out looking for things to call gods.

Pavees.7281:

I’m also deeply interested in what the searing ritual actually is and where those crystals actually come from and what they are made of.

Heavy implications point to the Searing Cauldrons having been infused with Kralkatorrik’s magic.

In that case, they weren’t dead however. Merely misplaced. Their bodies were simply unconscious.

Or it may be what the situation behind resurrection in GW1 was. Though resurrection magic seems to have gone caput in the past 250 years. And in either case, you’re needing someone to resurrect/revive the “dead” person.