Guild Wars 2

How I interpret their words:

Zhaitan is dead. For certain. The constant mention of “his spirit” kind of shows this. But what they’re not certain of is whether or not we’ll get to see his corpse.

However, I wouldn’t use their lack of definitive to really be held to merit. They always talk like that.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

May I ask which questions were shot down?

They were mostly attempts for clarity on confusing events in historical lore. The main goal of the interview from my perspective was to help reduce the number of “bad mysteries” in the game (I divide mysteries into form, the “good mysteries” being those which instigate the audience’s thought into theorizing; the “bad mysteries” being those which make the audience go “wait, that makes no sense!”). One such question of clarifying the “bad mysteries” that made it through was the appearance of the GL from GW1 to GW2.

Errant Venture.9371:

@Konig: what do you think of the implication that 10,000 years ago WAS in fact the time that Giganticus Lupicus died out, AND that that era was in fact the last time the Elder Dragons appeared?

Technically, Jeff never said that that era was in fact the last time the ED appeared, just that when they were making the story of the Elder Dragons initially, that fit into and was – initially – the last rise’s time. I doubt that when they made that development they had the jotun surviving multiple rises (or at least knowing of multiple rises), and the Forgotten, seers, mursaat, and dwarves being from that last rise.

Errant Venture.9371:

The above almost implies that there may be different races or possibly breeds of Lupicus and that the one in Arah may be a different breed from the ones whose skeletons we see in the Crystal Desert?

I caught this as well, and was quite enjoyed that my original theory on the Giganticus Lupicus has been proven partially right (the original theory of mine being that they were a series of races of ancient past, and that the Elder Dragons were also part of these races; the second part has been revived as possible with this statement).

It certainly does clarify the appearance difference and now we have some confirmation that those skulls are, indeed, GL.

Only within the walls of the reactor?

Head south into the skritt cave.

Head north into Toxal Bog in Brisban Wildlands.

Head into the Iron Marches, to the Chaos Crystal Cavern.

Head into Mount Maelstrom to south of the Crucible of Eternity.

Those are ALL after-effects of Thaumanova Reactor explosion.

I would have been greatly disappointed if it were just that the norn women were “too tough” – that really diminishes the whole aspects of the Elder Dragons even more.

I’d have preferred that Jormag just kept them up north to keep the Sons of Svanir fanatically ignorant.

Urban Battlegrounds was said in another interview to be a revisioning of the Searing. It is likely the least accurate of all fractals. But yeah, can’t really take fractals at face value.

Some you may be able to, but not all.

Same with the sPvP maps. Raid of the Capricorn I believe being a depiction of the scene in Sea of Sorrows novel where Cobiah tries to steal the Capricorn.

I’d call the Elder Dragons amoral.

The cult was of more than necromancers. There were rangers, mesmers, and monks in large numbers, and bosses being monk, elementalist, and mesmer.

You forgot Scott McGough! How rude! :P

@Malafide: We didn’t have time to ask all the questions we wanted to, and some were shot down (before the interview) on a “we won’t be able to answer that for xyz reason” basis. (note: I say ‘we’ but sadly I had to skip out on partaking in the interview thanks to work :/)

Not likely, Gregorius. You seem to be thinking this will be an exact replica…

It won’t be. Probably not even close.

From http://www.guildmag.com/magazine/issue9/interview.htm

(side note: this interview took place the day before the short story was released)

This said, about your comment in the OP, there’s two things of note:

1. The Short Story makes mention of a “new sanctum” signifying that they had another beforehand.
2. Morning, the NPC who’s the source of the wiki’s statement, only says this about the age of the Zephyr Sanctum: "Over time, humans took over the guardianship, and in our quest for peace we discovered the Sun, Wind, and Lightning Aspects. We Built Zephyr Sanctum, and lifted our community into the clouds. " No age given by her.

While there are NPCs who seem to have never been on the ground, it seems more that they simply never dealt with common people, and we know from the short story that Zephyrites – even before the Zephyr Sanctum – had been isolated for quite some time.

I want to emphasize the fact that the Zephyrites had kept themselves distanced from all Tyrians (continental speaking), so a lot of this “we’re new here/we don’t know this land” is actually true. They’re either from the old sanctum – of which we know nothing about, so could have been in the clouds too (just not a floating kite-ship) and/or in humid areas like amid the clouds – or they’re from other lands, not from continental Tyria.

So just to re-state, a lot of these so-called plotholes is just from people connecting the dots while skipping a dot or two.

Lord Trejgon.2809:

are You murdering the whole nations of ants with the whole planning how to destroy each of them? O.o

Isn’t that no different than taking ant killer and spraying it on an anthill?

Or just taking a hose and doing the same?

I feel this is relevant:

http://www.guildmag.com/magazine/issue9/interview.htm

GuildMag (Thalador): Thank you. It concerns a lot of people that we never see Zhaitan’s corpse crushed under the debris of his last stand – that gigantic tower – and there’s also the incredible benefits that the studying of an Elder Dragon’s carcass could yield. And yet the Pact made no such expeditions yet. What might be the reasons behind that?

ArenaNet (Jeff Grubb) : The idea is that we have many stories that we can tell, that we are going forward with, and while I don’t know if we’ve got anything in the docket right now – I’m not going to speak for anybody as far as process – the idea is that we do have a big dragon carcass somewhere out there.

ArenaNet (Ree Soesbee) : Or potentially – when you go out there into the repeatable of Arah, when you go into that after thing where you’re… you’re dealing with his spirit.

ArenaNet (Jeff Grubb) : You’re dealing with the… well, no, you’re dealing with the fragments of the past as well. Basically that story of the elder races – I think that has a more prominent feel than the immediate “quick, let’s go loot the body”.

ArenaNet (Ree Soesbee) : Yeah, it’s not a quick let’s go loot the body but while you’re in there, some of the justification is that while you’re in there you’re doing research, you’re looking into that, you’re dealing with some of the after effects of his spirit.

It seems heavily implied that they intend to let us see Zhaitan’s corpse in some future content.

Alleluia.1320:

Actually, how long has she been in power? Queen’s Jubilee is a very plausible guess if an anniversary of her reign is coming up. And the story could be she’s reviving the entertainment district in direct competition with Caudecus’ bread-and-circuses carnival.

It’s a celebration of GW2’s release with an independent in-lore explanation, taking place in Divinity’s Reach:
[spoiler]GuildMag (Thalador): I think we’re done with the questions, although, it might sound a bit demanding, Ollannach mentioned something about the August Living Story, that we could get a glimpse or a morsel of what’s coming up in August.

ArenaNet (Scott McGough) : Ahhh, okay, yes. It is the one-year anniversary of Guild Wars 2 release, so we have a celebration planned. It’ll be… not so much I want to give away, but it’ll be in Divinity’s Reach, we’ll be dealing with…

GuildMag (Draxynnic) : Interesting

ArenaNet (Scott McGough) : Sorry?

GuildMag (Draxynnic) :I was saying it’s interesting, considering how many have been in Lion’s Arch. Continue.

ArenaNet (Scott McGough) : Yes, this one will be in Divinity’s Reach, the story will move to Divinity’s Reach, and we will follow up on some of our iconic characters. We are going to have a celebration, an anniversary party, that all the players are going to be invited to. There’s a different region for it ingame – I think I’ll keep that to myself for now so it doesn’t spoil the surprise – but yes, the action in August will return to Divinity’s Reach, we’ll have a bit of a celebration, and then a bit of a surprise.

ArenaNet (Ree Soesbee) : Drama, escapade, and shenanigans!

ArenaNet (Jeff Grubb) : Fun for the whole family! Bring the kids! [/spoiler]http://www.guildmag.com/magazine/issue9/interview.htm

Now that the mag is out, I no longer feel obligated to not share…

http://www.guildmag.com/magazine/issue9/interview.htm

Summary: Scott hints that this fractal is an ancient piece of history that doesn’t have much background to it. Jeff hints that this fractal is just a mish-mash of things/places that the Mists made copies of.

Centaurs are already in an alliance with the bandits.

Who are in turn in an alliance with the Inquest and Nightmare Court in a group known as the Sinister Triad.

If the Sinister Triad formerly accepts centaurs and the Aetherblades into the group… that’s one large evil alliance.

Look at past fractals. See how many “new assets” there are there?

Solid Oceanic Fractal. Everything had to be new. Jade sea crystallized. Kraken. Frozen Leviathan (Canthan version). Jade Sea wildlife. What do we get?

Green Wind Riders for Irukanji.
Green Icebrood Colossi and Green Ice Elementals for Jade Elementals.
Ice Wurm frozen in jade for Leviathans (not even underwater sea wurms, but Ice Wurms!)
And then a new model for Kraken and its tentacles.

Everything else? You get new assets for Colossus, new assets for Imbued Shaman, and new assets for golems in Uncategorized (later re-used in a guild puzzle). Nothing else new. Everything else reused.

If we get FoA, we’ll likely be getting a reskinned Colossus for Abaddon (or his statue animated and colored), reskinned krait, and probably reskinned Branded Humans.

Thaumanova may not have (many obvious) new assets, but do we really want to consider “new assets” for determining which fractal? Think about all the “new assets” in the living story thus far. My hopes don’t get up with such things.

It’d be great if they modeled Abaddon, the Forgotten, and Margonites from scratch… but I doubt it.

I haven’t really fought Risen recently (while paying attention to what they say) so I don’t recall all of their death lines. But all I recall is “The light fades…” and “Rest…” for death calls. The former sounds like not wanting to die, the later sounds like them just being exhausted, which seems little different than if a living person were to die.

(for the record, my memory is good for things I see, not things I hear… I tend to forget a lot of things I hear but don’t see 8D).

Lord Trejgon.2809:

actually When You jump into that hole You will land…..
on the platform that is HIGH ABOVE metrica province
and if You look up there You WILL see many floating structures above reactor

One floating platform. The rest aren’t floating – no more than a small tower or block t hat’s floating at least. But that’s atypical asuran design mixed in with chaos magic saturation.

But the fact you’re teleported up doesn’t mean anything in relation to where the reactor is. Nonetheless, Thaumanova was in the ground. The reactor, underground. If it crash landed or something, it’d be noticeable. And the city itself is the structure we go to clean up, not something lost from up above.

Sea of Sorrows provides a interesting lines from the risen about Zhaitan’s goal, view, and promises.

Kind of gives a different view, to me at least, on the goals and personality of the Elder Dragons. Conflicting ones, even. But it certainly seems that they have their own intelligence, will, goal, motivation, and desire to survive.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Also, several of Zhaitan’s minions welcome their death and don’t seem that happy being undead slaves to this dragon. Slavery is bad hmmkay? That’s an evil act.

Disagree. On the “welcoming their death” part. It doesn’t seem that way to me at all, even from the death cries of the mook risen in the games, and especially when adding in Sea of Sorrow’s risen personalities.

They’re able to manipulate plants via their magic. The elite skill – just like the turrets – are probably an offshoot of this concept.

aspirine.6852:

Konig is pretty much Lore king of guild wars 1, so I pretty much assume what he says is how it happened.

I am not and please do not.

I can be wrong. I have been, I will be.

Thobek.1730:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

“another asura blown up experiment” (a gross understatement of Thaumanova’s lore)

what do you know about it that I have missed? what actually happened there or what do you know happened that is more than “the inquest had an accident during there experiments?”

not that it matters I want to see gods fighting, not much can beat that.

The Thaumanova Reactor is:

• Stated in Mount Maelstrom (I think you have to be a Whispers member to see this) to be the precursor of the Infinite Coil Reactor, which houses the Crucible of Eternity at the center. E.g., Thaumanova was the first lab for experiments ran in a facility focused on the Elder Dragons.
• Utilized crystals from Iron Marches (Chaos Crystal Cavern).
• Has five rooms linked to different elements and one room without; these five elements, albeit one is extremely minor and counts to the water attunement of the Matrix Key, are fire, ice, vegetation/poison, water, and crystal. Respectively, there are direct or indirect hints to these being linked to Primordus, Jormag, Mordremoth, the DSD, and Kralkatorrik.
• The Inquest had a base underneath the reactor which failed – in a similar matter to the Crucible of Eternity further hinting at their real experiments there – which is rumored to have been caused by destroyers – again, a further hinting at their real experiments there.
• There’s a hint that the Champion Steam Ogre is something that was known to occur if the Matrix Key is used, which would mean that the Inquest may have obtained time travel abilities – aka, the Thaumanova Reactor could also be the cause of the steam creature invasion in Lornar’s Pass.

In short: everything that isn’t natural in the world has or could have some tie to Thaumanova. Some ties being more strenuous than others, but existent nonetheless.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Thaumanova could give us more Inquest and Golems to fight, and if that be the case, I think we have enough of those. I’d rather see something new, even if it revolves around old lore.

While there’s likely to be Inquest and golems in the Thaumanova Reactor, there’s also likely to be ED minions, steam creatures, chaos beasts (aka shades), and overall randomness due to the chaos magic effecting the Mists.

draxynnic.3719:

The legions also accept service by other means. If Evon is channeling a reasonable portion of his profits to supporting his legion, his Imperator will probably agree that he’s more useful in that role than as just another soldier on a battlefield.

Drakkon.4782:

You honestly need to finish the Charr Personal Story before making a thread like this. MASSIVE SPOILER:All Charr leave their warband when they join their Order, and then they even leave that to become second in command of the Pact.

The difference is that in the Personal storyline, the charr PCs are ordered to act as a liason. They do not leave their warbands, they are just on extended duty. They are still Centurions, they still serve their legion, and their sparring partner from the biography is acting-Centurion.

Evon, however, is explicitly stated by Sareb to have left his legion. I don’t think Sareb would have said Evon left his legion if he were merely acting on extended duty.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

The Royal Terrace will be a thing, but it’s not the thing you think it is.

That thing will be a thing but not this thing rather the thing will be that thing, but that thing won’t be that thing you think the thing is but rather this thing that you don’t think this thing is.

Yup.

Navzar.2938:

Yes, we dont’ really know much about either of the two. But you should also keep in mind that this is a fractal, so it’s not going to directly tell you much lore wise anyway. It’s just about how epic people think the battle will be.

I can guarantee that no matter how epic the Fractal itself may be… it will fail to compete with people’s expectations.

Regarding the “it’s not going to directly tell you much lore wise anyway” because it’s a Fractal – it depends on how it’s done. Based on the hints by devs where one asked “I wonder what happens when chaos magic and the Mists mix?” (paraphrased), I think the Thaumanova reactor will give more lore – but more so with the aspect of Thaumanova’s explosion reacting to the Mists, rather than what happened at the Thaumanova Reactor.

And even if I’m wrong, it’s really just the specifics that alter. The generals can remain the same – again, it depends on how it’s done. Is it meant to be an exact replication with the only change being your own actions? Or is it meant to be a general recreation, so it may end up being like the Fall of Abaddon taking place without the other five gods?

Erasculio.2914:

Gmr Leon.1846:

This is the only reason you can bring up against this Fractal to support your awesome millionth human god-related thing.

Not really. It may be from the point of view of someone very close minded, but there are many other reasons for prefering the Abaddon fractal.

Leon was being sarcastic. This thread was created in mockery of another recently made one

Shiren.9532:

What makes any of this different from the average asuran personal story (I haven’t played it, but I heard the steam creatures have something to do with the Infinity Ball)? […] Yet another asuran experiment gone wrong is an every day occurrence.

Your typical asuran experiment gone wrong just leads to a golem going haywire or a small 10-feet-radius explosion.

The Thaumanoa Reactor base is the precursor to the biggest Inquest base – the Crucible of Eternity. It is the very core of Inquest lore, and its effects are seen across the globe. From the research at Thaumanova, of which we only know for certain containing Chaos Magic experimentation, the Inquest had furthered their studies into the Elder Dragons themselves. And there are hints that they were researching the Elder Dragons even at the Thaumanova Reactor.

This is not your “every day occurrence.” This is the very core of Inquest research on magic and the Elder Dragons. It is the very foundation on which the Inquest and their actions exist in the modern world. Almost everything Inquest can find a direct tie to Thaumanova.

Thaumanova’s influence spans the continent, changes the very laws of physics, and could possibly be tied to the oldest forces in the world.

And if that doesn’t sell you, this should:

We may learn more on Mordremoth and the Deep Sea Dragon through looking into Thaumanova.

If you look at the reactor, you will find that there are five elemental themes there: Fire, Ice, Vegetation, Water, and (very very minutely), Crystal. The Ice has a direct tie to Jormag via the quadrant summoning Icberood and Corrupted Ice. The water has an indirect tie to the DSD in the creatures summoned there. The Plant/Vegetation quadrant has a potential tie to Mordremoth because of the rotting mossheart teleported there (it uses the same model as Nightmare Mosshearts that are part of an event in Caledon Forest, yet interestingly uses the same abilities, and model, as the Champion Rotting Oakheart in Queensdale – whom, might I add, is said to be capable of spreading “corruption” and has an environmental effect that is also seen around said Nightmare Mosshearts). Primordus even has an indirect tie to the fire quadrant – the Fire Elemental is also seen in a personal story step that takes place at Mount Maelstrom, which has swarms of destroyers rising; then there’s rumors that the explosion was caused by destroyers.

So ask yourself:

Do you want to witness an event we know about, seeing what the Crystal Sea looked like (somewhat).

Or do you want to learn about the Inquest’s research into the Elder Dragons and magic itself.

Zomaarwat.3912:

Korval.3751:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

I think it’s great that you guys are fans of Cantha and I would personally like to see it in the game as well. But what you’ll be finding under that tent (very soon) is not Canthan.

Could it be something like this?!

The Collapse could be a result of Destroyers burrowing I guess, but that would disappoint me.

My hope is that it’s bandit aka White Mantle sabotage.

Lue.6538:

The sea used to be a volcano tho and then it rained heavily and it became a sea, then when it stopped raining the water receded and the volcano reappeared, then they put the bloodstone pieces inside it and suddenly, volcano fractal!

…. Wrong, entirely utterly wrong. Honestly, I hope you’re just trolling.

The Bloodstone pieces were put inside Abaddon’s Mouth – the largest volcano in the Ring of Fire. That’s west of Orr, on the edge of the Strait of Malchor.

Abaddon was defeated in the Crystal Sea, that’s east of Orr, on the total other side of the peninsula.

The Crystal Sea is what it used to be, then it dried up when the five gods defeated Abaddon, turning it into the Crystal Desert and the southern coastline where Abaddon was defeated into the Desolation.

Uh, Thobek…

The fight was on a coast of a sea.

Not a volcano.

The volcano is where the bloodstone pieces were put.

Quantum Jackalope.

Though we know more of the “beforehand” for Abaddon than we do for Thaumanova, thanks to the document released only to Asian communities (gg on that Anet?) which gives a pretty good detail about it.

All we know is that The Thaumanova Reactor was an Inquest facility, precursor to the Infinite Coil Reactor (aka Crucible of Eternity), had crystals from the underground cave in Iron Marches, and it blew up and now chaos magic reigns.

We know what Abaddon did. We know why Abaddon started a war. We know the outcome of the war. We know who partook in the war. We know where the war was. What we don’t know is merely the fine-details. What was the Five’s actions in the war, were there more than the Forgotten and Margonites involved, why was Abaddon annoyed over Margonites getting wiped out by Forgotten and why did the Five Gods back up the Forgotten and perhaps was there more to it?

We know more of Abaddon’s fall than the Thaumanova Reactor’s background. People just dismiss the later because it’s “just another asura lab explosion.”

Gandarel.5091:

Then answer me some questions, because i do not know what happened:
-Where did the battle take place?
-Were all the gods fighting, even Dwayna? Then how did she contribute to the battle? Healing other gods or..?
-How was he defeated? A hammer blow, a godly spell or something else? Maybe Abaddon’s predecessor came back somehow for a final stand and sacrificed himself?
-Which army fought the margonites? Forgotten only, or Orrians too?
-Did all orrians opposed Abaddon?
These are just some questions.

You may find this an interesting read:

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/76125-why-abaddon-turned-evil/page__st__30#entry2100579

It’s a fan-translation of an Asian lore document.

Most of your questions are answered there.

Abaddon was defeated on the Crystal Sea’s border, beaten down by all five gods at what is now called the Mouth of Torment. If you played any bit of attention in GW1, or even have read Abaddon’s GWW article, you’d know this.

About Dwayna’s contributions, she does more than healing. See the Jade Wind, caused by negative usage of magic she granted Emperor Angsiyan.

Who fought the Margonites – the Forgotten.

Farzo.8410:

I got some questions I want answers for.

- WoodenPotatoes in his video said that there was one god Abaddon defeated before himself got defeated, what god was that?

- About the five gods that fought Abaddon, was Grenth one of the gods amongst them, or was it Dhuum that helped the gods to banish Abaddon?

- Where in the Crystal Seas did the fight happen? Was it on an island, or over open seas?

- How did the Margonites look like before they got banished with Abaddon down into the Realm of Torment. They were Humans during that time.

- The very reason why Abaddon started a war between the gods was because they wanted to take the magic away from the humans, while Abaddon wanted the humans to keep the magic, why was Abaddon’s feelings so strong to this that he started that war?

1. Wooden Potatoes kittens up his explanations of lore. What is said is that Abaddon was the mightiest of gods and that he was CAPABLE of defeating a god in one-on-one combat. He never actually did so.
2. Grenth rose to power no later than 48 BE. Abaddon fell in 0 AE. You can do the math. (Hint: Grenth was a god then)
3. The coast. Again, Mouth of Torment in modern day.
4. They were humans, so they naturally looked like humans. We see a ghost of one in Prophecies. However, given the Scriptures of Abaddon, they may have been turned into demonic entities before banishment into the Realm of Torment, so they likely looked like they did in GW1.
5. False. Technically speaking, the Forgotten started the war. As shown in the link of the translated doc I put above, the Margonites favored Abaddon so greatly that they defaced the statues of the other five gods at the Temple of the Six Gods – this enraged the Forgotten who began a genocide. This kitten ed Abaddon off who in turn began a genocide of his own and in turn assaulted the Gates of Heaven (what and where this is, is unknown). This then kitten ed the other five gods off who waged war with Abaddon.

The whole concept of Abaddon being enraged over magic being limited is mostly player speculation, I believe. And the timeframe in which the Bloodstone was made in relation to Abaddon’s fall is also unknown. Though I’m not 100% certain on this.

Quarktastic.1027:

-I believe Grenth defeated Dhuum before the gods brought humans to tyria. Abaddon wasn’t defeated until after his decision to grant magic to the humans. Since we see statues of Grenth -not Dhuum- in Orr, leads one to believe that Grenth was among the gods who defeated Abaddon.

Humanity was in Tyria when Dhuum was defeated. The Seven Reapers are heavily implied to have been humans, and Grenth to have been half-human. Though not explicitly stated. However, we do know that Dhuum was defeated in the ossuary of the Temple of Lyssa.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

khani.4786:

Unless I’m mistaken there is lore in at least one other fractal already. The Charr fractal which is somewhere (pre?)-searing..

All the fractals are lore based. They are all based on a major event in Tyrian history, or a mythical retelling of said event.

I’m sure the people in the lore forum could tell you more.

Indeed. Well, maybe not every.

The main thing about the fractals and their lore is that there is no “telling” of the lore, only showing. So you have to observe and make sense of it. Which is fairly hard to do. If you know what it’s of, the lore is much more easier to see.

Urban Battlegrounds is a retelling and an alternative version of The Searing. Cliffside Fractal is a retelling of the beginning of Tyrian history. Uncategorized is an asuran city (not Rata Sum). All fractals are past events.

I could say more, but anything else comes from an interview GuildMag had with Anet which isn’t yet released and I don’t want to diminish the value of said interview.

skullmount.1758:

Yeah, thats about the only one with any kind of lore. I don’t get why people keep thinking they’re gonna get much lore from either of the new fractals. They can’t really be long enough to give/get any kind of lore from it.

Aside from the fact I just named 3 with lore behind them, rather than your proclaimed two, what you’re forgetting is this:

We don’t know what the fractals are depicting. Figure out what they depict, the lore is easier to see.

For the new fractals, we’ll know what the fractal is depicting, thus the lore will be point blank to see.

People, please.

QJ obviously means Qui-gon Jinn.

TwoWaysyaWowT.3160:

Weeeell, such work would be necessary to truly create a “living world,” wouldn’t it?

That’s the core of the oxymoron that is GW2, isn’t it now?

ArenaNet doesn’t have a “living story” they have a mixture of an evolving and a stasis story. The core release being the stasis, everything since being the evolving.

Sort of the same kind of issue that the personal story is – you make decisions, but those decisions don’t affect anything in the long run. Similarly, the “living world” changes, but the original story is still there. And to truly make the game a living world, they’re going to need to start removing/reducing/changing the open world’s core story.

But they’re not going to do that. Not for some time, I’m sure. Maybe in 2014. Maybe. But my hopes aren’t up.

And this is part of the main reason why I hate the temporary content. By ArenaNet’s “living story” ploy, the original content shouldn’t be available anymore. So why the hell are they limiting players of the newer content but keeping the older content unchanged (and not even improving it at that!).

Ah, but excuse my rant. That’s not lore.

Navzar.2938:

Guys, there’s a big difference between in game lore and what actually happened. He never denied that it was the Canthan district in the real word past, he just said that it’s not part of official lore because it was changed before release.

Read the thread better. I had outright pointed out one in-game reference to a Canthan area existing in Divinity’s Reach, and I had made mention of Ree Soesbee explaining the lore behind the Great Collapse including that it was a Canthan district in the lore.

In other words, that being a Canthan district was in fact told to us to be part of official lore. And the fact that a Canthan area exists, the same.

However, this said, just because it was a Canthan district doesn’t mean it should or will be fixed into being a Canthan district. Based on NPC dialogues – some of which may now be removed, I’m unsure – the residence of the district got relocated elsewhere. So unless there’s now homeless while waiting on the construction to end, what that becomes could be anything that the government desires… and even if there were homeless it could be – but not without some sort of revolt/rally/protest.

Gmr Leon.1846:

If it had been repaired sooner, so many refugees from the Molten Alliance’s attacks wouldn’t have to have been endangered by the Consortium down at Southsun Cove, and it would have served to create another interracial hub besides Lion’s Arch.

Why would the human nation, who have enough of their own problems, house non-human (especially charr given the immense hatred of them in the government and people) refugees?

Siphaed.9235:

Talk to the NPC’s by the gate, and then you’ll know why a fractal would be a horrible idea. Apparently the sewage system under that section broke, had a massive leak, and caused the sink hole by eroding support areas above the old catacombs below the city (sited in Ghosts of Ascalon).

You don’t honestly believe those Shining Blade Guards, do you?

They claim both Seraph and Shining Blade helped evacuate something there was weeks foreknowledge about, and that there were no casualties. The gossiping citizens say it was an immediate thing, cracks appearing in the middle of the night. Riot Alice in the street rat storyline states that her father was killed. There’s only mention of the Shining Blade, no Seraph, aiding in the evacuation.

Those guards are clearly covering something up.

Also, Ghosts of Ascalon, to my memory and a quick skim, makes no mention of the Great Collapse. Furthermore, if you’re talking about the trap room in Blimm’s Tomb that had a false floor collapsing being the cause of the Great Collapse, no support foundations were ruins in that room so it wouldn’t have caused a collapse the size of the Great Collapse – if any at all.

You’re referring to the smoke-like thing just beneath the moon and to the right in the picture, correct?

From the image alone it looks just like thicker clouds to me. But if it’s there constantly… that’s unlikely.

I doubt that it’s the “formation of a star” from the jotun telescope, however. That’d be leading to a massive game spoiler unless its only shown on characters who did that/beat Zhaitan.

We actually know she’s been in that laboratory for a while. In an interview with TowerTalk, Scott McGough told us that Dessa is effectively trapped in her lab – though it’s more of a psychological trapped sense, as she can leave but fears that if she does, she’d never be able to return to that lab because of how hard and random it was to show up there.

IIRC, Scott also said that Dessa doesn’t even realize – or refuses to acknowledge – that the asura gate leading to her lab is even active.

Though how long she’s been there is unknown. And keep in mind that the Mists connect all times, so she could have entered there at about 1230 or so for all we know, when Rata Sum had still embargoed Lion’s Arch for stealing money meant for King Baede’s asura gate in Divinity’s Reach.

Dessa isn’t funded by the Consortium either. Her “connections” run only so far as her ex-boyfriend and she’s outright stating that she refuses to work with Consortium due to her now-over relationship. To think she’s funded by Consortium even now would be like claiming a person who dated someone in the mafia, broke up, and is now running a legit bicycle store has the store funded by the mafia.

Lord Trejgon.2809:

Someone mentioned here that that was an asuran construct – ciy or not whatever.
in other topic somebody told that thaumanova Reactor was under asuran CITY.
So what IF uncategorized fractal symbols that city which was floating above reactor and when the reactor explodes some instruments that was used to keep them straight was heavilly damaged and thats caused all the rest thing mentioned?

The Thaumanova city wasn’t floating, and in fact the structure we go through in Metrica is that city. The reactor that blew was underground, in the hole that is sealed off unless you have that charged Matrix Key.

Furthermore, I doubt that ArenaNet would make two fractals based on the Thaumanova Reactor explosion.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Given the system, it doesn’t seem like the Support Tokens would be easily tracked, but completion of the achievements would…

You put the token into a virtual box that says Kiel or one that says Gnashblade. I’m failing to see how that would be hard to track.

Depends on how it’s set up, baka. They’d need to track how many times a specific action is performed, when such an act is not tracked in anywhere else in the game. Can be done, or they could be using a pre-existing method to do it…

Given how ArenaNet has a tendency to cut corners when they don’t need to be precise, which do you think?

‘Sides, unlike reality, there’s no box to retrieve tokens from. It’s just an NPC dialogue, and everywhere else in the game, those things reset in no more than 10 minutes.

TwoWaysyaWowT.3160:

1. It’s been how long since the defeat of Zhaitan and Risen are still everywhere? You would think the developers would have replaced ’em with other enemies by now if Zhaitan is truly no more.

You don’t honestly believe that when everything that was available from the initial release is still available, do you?

They’d have to remove or redo dozens of hearts, hundreds of events, and perhaps thousands of NPC dialogues.

That’s not going to happen. No time soon. Honestly, why they want all their initial release stuff kept but their living story only retaining a good 20% (and I dare say, that’s rather generous of a number to attribute!) of the content is beyond me.

TwoWaysyaWowT.3160:

2. Even though the developers stated that he is dead in terms of canon, again, the Risen are still all over the place. And the developers technically contradicted themselves when they also stated that “nothing is off the table” in terms of future content which leads to….

Technically, that’s no contradiction.

Also, it was said he was defeated, not dead. Good difference.

Also, Risen being present doesn’t mean much, given how it is explicitly stated that the Risen were still around, but would slowly be eradicated by the Pact.

Ah, WP, confusing people with your poor explanations…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mr._Sparkles,_A_Tale_of_the_Asura

That’s what WP is reading – verbatim – it’s pre-release lore, and Mr. Sparkles is now Zojja’s golem. She bought it from Sareb who was Flummox’s assistant before becoming Evon Gnashblade’s aide-de-camp (aka secretary).

So no, there’s no connection to the Raving Asura.

Side note: it seems Sareb got a sex changed between the concept story and the game’s release.

BobbyStein.2315:

I’m voting for Kiel. You should, too!

Seeing the achievements and how the tokens work, I’m curious how the voting actually gets counted…

Is it via the tokens, or what I’m suspecting – the completion of achievements?

Given the system, it doesn’t seem like the Support Tokens would be easily tracked, but completion of the achievements would…

SirDrygan.1823:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

We will not make both fractals.

Another way to see this is “We only have the budget to do one fractals.”

Can we all chip in to do both?

They’re making three fractals.

Molten Facility (themed?), Aetherblade Retreat (themed?), and Abaddon/Reactor.

Skribulous.3521:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

And no, my character isn’t siding with Kiel. Kiel is siding with my character.

Trahearne is siding with your character too, why does Kiel get a free pass while Saladbolg gets all the hate?

Actually, the PC does side with Trahearne in the personal story.

It’s the PC who nominates Trahearne to be the Marshal of the Pact.

The Eastern and Western Commons’ housings is actually an atypical Ascalonian/Krytan mixture that’s seen throughout the smaller villages of Kryta. They’re not Canthan looking in the least.

Interesting fact I’ve noticed: Southsun Survival will be remaining after the content update.

Chances are, the achievements will be moved to their own Mini-Game category, where you can spend your sweet time doing them. I got no proof, but that’d be good. Same with the Sanctum Sprint, Crab Toss, and – maybe, maybe – the Aspect Arena. Hopefully all of the past mini-games will be going into a nice little weekly rotation with permanent achievements for them all. But that I doubt.

A skritt, charr, and human wouldn’t work on the Captain’s Council. Plus the skritt lacks a boat that it’s a captain of, one of the requirements of being on the Captain’s Council!

What we need is a quaggan. A quaggan who knows how to lead and keep his… paws, claws, tentacles, whatever, clean!

#VoteForSuwash

Hmm. Only corpse in Brisban I recall is some beggar in an old tent surrounded by flies just east of Fort Koga ruins.

I’ll have to check this out. May be something related to next month’s LS which is said to go back to Kryta (since bandits in Brisban and Kryta mix).

Zomaarwat.3912:

Maybe a Great Collapse fractal could shed more light?

I think this could be a fun idea. Presuming it wasn’t a mere poor foundational collapse.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Just a final quick note, I’m certainly not denying that at one point a Canthan district was planned and partially implemented. But the actual lore of the district that the game shipped doesn’t support it very well right now.

I don’t see why the district couldn’t be an arts and Canthan district, given there’s lines for both. And besides, who wouldn’t consider foreign art to be the best of what art has to provide?

But if it wasn’t a Canthan district, that still leaves the massive question: Where is the Canthan areas that Valenze mentioned. And I doubt a Preceptor of the Order of Whispers would be wrong in such a thing.

Deified.7520:

I think we can all agree that a Canthan DIstrict was in the game before release, but they took it out for whatever reason. The fact that theres a huge thread about them taking it out and what not speaks volumes that the community really wants Cantha in the game. However, they can’t go back on the great collapse so they’re trying to make do. I’m sure we’ll eventually see Cantha in the future, lets not bust their balls over this.

My argument is that there’s actual lore stating that there is or at least was a Canthan area/district in the game, and that Ree had stated – after the Great Collapse’s establishment in lore – that the Great Collapse was a Canthan district that collapsed due to poor foundations (or so the official story goes… I have reason to suspect sabotage).

kahzee.6042:

Arguing with a dev lolol

Hey, why not? It’s all good fun!

I’d probably argue and point out inconsistencies with Bobby Stein, Jeff Grubb, Scott McGough, and/or Ree Soesbee (and others) as well. I think debating about something, even something the other had made, is healthy in developing the story. If a creator of a story gets pointed out the fallacies in the storytelling, they can work to fix those fallaciekitten

han.5236:

So of course the official Lore was rewritten to an “Art District”.

Yet there are “remnants” stating that the official lore has it as a Canthan district.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

So, I’m not going to spoil anything but I’d like to take this opportunity to remind you guys that according to game lore, there was never a Canthan district. If you’ve done your research, you’ll know that the great collapse was formally an arts district.

According to Ree it was a Canthan district…

Unless she was stating the design history and the lore history in the same sentence. I forgot where the interview was (I think it was a TowerTalk interview about humanity’s lore), but Ree explicitly stated that the collapse happened because of a rush in establishing the foundations, and in the same answer explained it was the Canthan district.

I actually have done my research – the Great Collapse’s story and Thaumanova’s story are two of my favorite aspects of GW2 lore. And there is evidence to say it was an Arts AND a Canthan district.

Aside from Ree’s statement, in the Order of Whispers personal story step Suspicious Activity you are able to ask Valenze and the others about the person you’re going to investigate, and she says:

“He was born and raised in the Canthan areas of Divinity’s Reach. He worked in the gladitorial arena until he was injured. "

So tell me – where was/is this “Canthan areas of Divinity’s Reach?” The gladiatorial area could only be the training grounds looking spots next to the Plaza of Balthazar (no other place fits a “gladiatorial area” description), which is right on the edge of The Great Collapse!

[Edit: Edited to reduce potential rudeness sounding. Meant to seem sarcastically snide, but re-reading post sounded crude and rude]

@Deified: None of that is actually new so it wasn’t “finally put [] in.” There’s also the statements by a shop owner that she lived there, the Shining Blade saying no casualties yet Riot Alice in the human street rat storyline stating her father died then, and other conflicting stories that make you question the validity of the Shining Blade (which will likely disappear when the update occurs…) in this matter.