Guild Wars 2

All I’ll say is pay attention to guildmag.com in the coming week………..

Dustfinger.9510:

The wiki took outdated info. The newer info from the Compendium of the charr states “To this day, no one knows who murdered the last Khan-Ur, nor if some legion had been behind the assassination or if was the humans or their powerful gods. With his death, however, the legions once more fell into conflict and chaos. Records of this portion of Charr history are scattered, much like the legions themselves.” http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ecology_of_the_Charr

So it’s possible that the largos were involved but there is absolutely nothing pointing to them at all.

Actually, you got it switched around. The Ecology of the Charr is, in fact, the older lore.

The “newer” lore – the one you call “outdated” was from the original human page on guildwars2.com, before they redesigned it. Or it was the charr one. Either way, it was guildwars2.com which was newer than The Ecology of the Charr by a few years which stated that humans assassinated the Khan-Ur.

Sadly, since Anet redesigned the main site shortly prior to release, there was a couple small but “important” tidbits of lore lost. Humans being confirmed assassins of the Khan-Ur and elementalists utilizing Destruction magic being the biggest two.

I’m actually confused on how you could possibly claim the Ecology is the newer lore in regards to information on the Khan-Ur, since the Ecology of the Charr is the first mention of the Khan-Ur in lore.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

That isn’t it defogged, that is the painterly texture of it that exists on the map regardless of if you have been there or not.

It is defogged. You have 2 painterly styles of mapped – the fogged style, and for the EotN it’s just white for the mountains, and the zoomed out defogged style, which that is (and there is no non-painterly style unless you’re in the Eye of the North for that one place).

Ah right. I recognized the icon but didn’t really connect the name. Heh.

Tamashi.5647:

So can someone please explain, why he uses skills from different professions?

Trehearne is a necromancer, but Caladbolg is a special weapon. These things you saw him do are all because of that sword. In the lvl 28 sylvari personal story step, you get to wield Caladbolg to kill Mazdak the Accursed, in which you can also use these skills.

Caladbolg is a legendary weapon made by the bark of the Pale Tree that is capable of exemplifying the wielders characteristic traits – both good and negative. It basically takes someone and makes them better at what they do, even if what they do is being uncertain or depressed or cowardice. It is also the only known weapon that is capable of killing a lich (liches cannot be killed under normal conditions; unlike in most fantasy settings, they don’t seem to have phylacteries; we only killed Khilbron because he was standing atop of a bloodstone linked to soul batteries which effectively ripped souls out of bodies to store), sending a burning sensation through undead when attacked.

Someone needs to take Caladbolg to Elona to kill Joko.

Vahkris.6847:

there is at least one reference to the Halloween event in a recent arc

There was? Missed this. What was the reference and its context?

The Six Gods built Arah where it was because of Zhaitan’s leaking magic, though they didn’t know of the Elder Dragon (according to Randall Grayston at least). However, what’s interesting to note is the Altar of Glaust there – which is said to predate the Six Gods’ arrival on the world, implying that the city of Arah already existed to an extent, so it seems that it may be simply that the Six Gods moved into a vacant house that leaked magic and they collected artifacts to study the world’s magic.

The Central Transfer Chamber was also built because of leaked magic, though the asura knew the source they didn’t know it was a living being – they thought it was a statue.

The charr lived near Kralkatorrik because it just happened to be in their line of conquest. The charr originate east of the Blazeridge Mountains – off of the map – where at least the Blood Citadel lies. They effectively made an n shape conquest around the Blazeridge, going north, west into now Blood Legion Homelands, and south into now Ascalon. Kralkatorrik was thought to be a mountain – though an odd one at that – and may have leaked magic, but neither situation was why the charr lived near it. That was just pure chance.

Jormag actually lived north of where the norn did. They didn’t live that near to him at all. And they even treated where his champion, Drakkar, was with forebode. It is hinted that Jormag slept in the arctic seas of Tyria, but it’s not certain; we just know he was close to them to personally go and cause havoc on the kodan before coming south. He did shatter mountains when he woke up, after all, so it’s likely that he lived a bit further south than the sea or coastline.

The krait may have lived near the DSD, but we cannot be sure. There’s hints that their prophets may be related to the DSD and/or its champions, but again we cannot really be sure of it.

With Mordremoth we don’t know if anyone was living near it.

Keep in mind that just because an Elder Dragon forced them out, doesn’t mean those forced out lived nearby – they ensure to take entire nations worth of land as territory when waking, so they could easily wake in desolate areas then head towards civilized areas.

For those expecting to see how Abaddon fell and all that; especially about your argument Malafide…

Keep in mind that the Fractals are not exact replicas of the past. These aren’t how the events actually happened. The Mists doesn’t create exact copies. It’ll just create “close to enough” replicas. So the Fall of Abaddon won’t be showing how Abaddon fell. It’ll just show Abaddon falling.

It’ll likely be more accurate than Urban Battlegrounds being a depiction of the Searing, though at the same time, it could also be less accurate.

And keep in mind that what is outright different will be our own actions in it – our characters didn’t exist then, but they do in the Fractal. The Fall of Abaddon fractal may be “the war of the gods, except without the other five gods” or it could be “the war of the gods, aided by five powerful mortals who weren’t there before” or any other combination, like “the war of the gods, with Abaddon being ten times tougher and wtf pwning all five other gods.”

While we’ll see the fall of Abaddon, nothing says that it’ll be even close to accurate to how Abaddon actually was defeated.

But the same goes for the Thaumanova Reactor. However, from the dev post, the importance of that reactor isn’t “what happened?” but rather “how can the reactor’s research and explosion act when put in xyz situation?”

I mean, hell, for all we can tell, we may be fighting Abaddon in both Fractals. One being an intended depiction of his fall, the other where he got “teleported” through time and space (or rather, copied and pasted through time and space).

ZudetGambeous.9573:

As per the interviews that accompanied the blog it is not legendary armor. It will be legendary trinkets, probably amulets if I had to guess.

My pure speculation is that they will modify your appearance in some way to make them desirable.

This makes little sense.

The main thing about legendaries is that they “look cool.” They have unique animations and the like. But trinkets, except for backpacks, do not appear on the character.

So, what, will it give us divine auras ala GW1’s Prophecies collectors’ edition?

The only boon to Legendary trinkets is the whole “change stats anytime” which I guess would make creating such things viable, but I’d much rather have legendary armor.

As long as backpack is included, I suppose it won’t be too bad.

Interesting post… I have a few problems…

New Skill and Traits

I just hope that they’re introduced slowly enough so that we don’t run into GW1’s problem of too many skills to balance. I also hope that this may include new weapon types, or weapon availability (e.g., old weapons becoming usable to formerly-unusable professions, like Thieves getting an off-hand sword).

Champion Rewards

This sounds… dangerous. I hope it comes after all champions get a massive boost in difficulty, especially low level ones. There are champions which are farmed – most prevalent in Queensdale – to a high degree already, if they start dropping more rewards, some unique unto champions, you can bet your furry little charr’s buttocks that they’re going to be farmed a lot more.

Dungeon Complete Bonus Rewards

This sounds relatively…. poorly thought out. On one hand, you’re giving a bonus to completing dungeons not usually completed. On the other hand, you’re giving a bonus to people to do absolutely nothing different. If they run through one dungeon path five times a day, the only change to them is that the first run rewards more.

Rather than “more rewards for each path you do the first time that day you do it” it should be “extra reward for doing multiple paths” – the reward coming after completing more than xyz number of different paths, with or without being within a time limit. Otherwise all you’re doing is handing players more stuff for doing nothing out of the ordinary.

Crafting Taken to 500!

I like the higher tier, I like the combining lower tier stuff for higher tier stuff. I do not like the time restraint on it. It’s annoying enough for the Quartz crystal, but at least that’s unique unto itself. All this would do is annoy players who will only come to accept and agree with it over time, just for the relatively unreasonable need to make materials worth something more? In time they’ll drop anyways, all they’re doing is slowing that down, by forcing something annoying.

Not a fan.

Craftable Ascended Gear

On the fence for this, since them being hard to get kind of made them that much more important. I’m fine with reducing the kitten quality of the gear, but I hope that they don’t become too easy. I suppose this may be the real hidden purpose for the time-constrain on making new mats, but still not exactly happy over Ascended gear becoming craftable. To be expected for sure, but it will make all those Exotics that can be crafted via Mystic Forge… relatively useless in stats. I hope some get buffed to Ascended level (or can be made Ascended – that’d be great too!).

build precursor items

I’m… iffy on this as well. It makes making Legendaries just that much easier. I am looking forward to new Legendaries, but the time and effort it should take to make them shouldn’t exactly be lessened.

I hope that they make Legendaries account bound as well. Maybe Precursors too (or maybe not). Then that’d be a bit more interesting for Legendaries. The originals will become “meh” in the process though… well, more so than they are already.

we’re building a new comprehensive “level zero” optional tutorial that teaches the core basics of the game. We’re also adding new story steps at levels 5 and 10

I would have thought that Anet would want to improve the already existing personal story and the dungeon story modes (make them at least more demanding to be done at least!), if they’re expanding to new regions. Give a better first impression to the new people and all.

These tutorials… seem peculiar, to be tied to the personal story. Kind of… interested in it, and hoping that they hold no real story purpose.

And I’m curious how Anet will treat Chinese players in regards to the Living Story. Will they forever be incapable of seeing the things that have already passed, or will Anet make that now-gone temporary content returnable (perhaps as an instanced version DLC?).

Overall, interesting. I’m hoping that they really balance out the difficulty of content – make things that are too hard to contemporary content easier, and the too easy to contemporary content harder (e.g., balance out all three CoF paths to be of equal difficulty). Looking forward to how open world events and world bosses get improved. And hopefully champions won’t be exempt from them.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Maybe I’m understanding it wrong, but that point doesn’t make sense to me. How can you know we will get less lore from the Abaddon fractal simply because we know that stuff happened? We know barely any details about that event, more than the Thaumanova thing yes, but not to the point, were the only thing missing is how everything looked like.

Let me rephrase:

We’ll get fewer new lore.

From the Asian-only pre-NF-release lore documents, we get quite a bit about Abaddon and what he wanted to do, and why things happened the way they did (fun fact: after the Margonites defaced the Temple of the Six, the forgotten basically got their knickers in a bunch and waged war on the Margonites, which in turned kitten ed Abaddon off, cue the Scriptures of Abaddon event, then the other Five stepped in because he was “going out of line” or some such, which only made Abaddon more annoyed). Though said documents are a bit obscure to the playerbase (I’ve been working on getting them from someone who knows where they are on Asian community forums, but he’s very busy with life so it’s taking a while).

BuddhaKeks.4857:

We now for example nothing about the relation between the gods at that point in time. Were they upset they had to turn against Abaddon? Were they full of rage? Sorrow? Pity? All of that?

Hmmm, we kind of do get a glimpse at this though…

[…] Hate and anger had overcame Abaddon completely, and with a vengeful declaration, war, once again, was declared upon the Gods.

Abaddon was the mightiest of the gods, and for a while, the war went in his favor. In the end, however, he was no match for the combined strength of all the Five. At what is now known as the Mouth of Torment, the Five broke an entrance to that which is now known as the Mouth of Torment. Unwilling (note: this can be translated to both unable or unwilling, but I’m taking context into consideration) to destroy their brethren, Abaddon was imprisoned. At the same time, the Margonites were delivered a catastrophic stroke, and only a small fraction of them ended up becoming trapped alongside their masters._

A powerful force of Forgotten was sent to safeguard Abaddon’s prison. Perhaps the Five had hoped that given time, Abaddon would come to his senses. […]

Fan translation of one of two known Asian lore docs.

Caradryan.1795:

the people who do can now bicker all they want about how many asura scientists it takes to make a very large explosion

That feels like a joke…

“How many asura does it take to make a lab explode?”

“None, asura are so “ingenious” they make their labs to blow up on their own. Usually with them inside."

Hmmm, may need some improvement.

The only reason he could have an affinity for volcanoes would be merely that they allow easier (no tunneling) access to the surface. But Mount Maelstrom, I suspect was made by Primordus and his minions, rather than utilized by. Either way, it was made before 1229 AE (it is referenced in Sea of Sorrows).

Besides, the Ring of Fire when visited in the novel holds no destroyers, and after the novel it is Risen territory.

It would be his imprisonment, rather than his “fall to darkness” (him going batkitten crazy). But it’s been confirmed to be pre-GW1.

While the first official Living Story update was Flame and Frost, a four month story, one can consider it to have truly began with Halloween. However, Halloween and Wintersday’s influences are relatively moot, only The Lost Shores truly matters in relation to the Living Story.

I don’t have time so I’ll leave the F&F and one bit to the others who described it already. But the summary of The Lost Shores is this:

Recently, exact time unknown thanks to the plague that is the Dead Ships of Zhaitan, an island appeared due to volcanic activity (this was only hinted at until Secrets of Southsun). The Consortium, after Zhaitan’s defeat and the reduction of Risen, found this island and decided to make it a vacation resort, sending Canach and a team to survey the land, with the explicit rule of not tamporing with the wildlife. Canach noticed a loophole in that he wasn’t told not to tamper with the flora of the island, so he did some experimentation.

This experimentation with the Passion Flowers/Fruits kitten ed off the karka, who had recently migrated there to avoid a threat in the Unending Ocean (implied to be the DSD as they avoided Orr for the same reason they left their home). The karka then wiped out all but 4 known members of the expedition: Owain, who still lives on the island; Canach, who fled to Garrenhoff; Blimm, who returned to Lion’s Arch and the Consortium; and Noll, who fled to Caledon Forest. The karka then followed the three who fled, assaulting those three locations, prompting the Lionguard to begin an investigation, find a way to bypass the karka’s thick and steel-like shells, and they eventually found said three out and about Southsun Cove for the first time, where they launched an assault to eliminate the Ancient Karka who was organizing the assault.

With the Ancient Karka destroyed, the karka threat was lowered and Kiel put in charge of managing Southsun Cove so that the karka do not attempt another invasion. Meanwhile, Canach fled the scene rather than be arrested, and the Consortium continued to improve their “vacation” resort. Until the events of Secret of Southsun.

Reason to suspect…

except for the utter lack of reason to suspect it. Steam creatures may have been invented in a possible future, they exist in the present too.

Fafnir.5124:

Spoiler:
Wasn’t that what the destroyer of life was in GW2 book 2.

Basically we missed most of the dragon champions they where taken out by destinies edge.

The Destroyer of Life wasn’t a dragon, though it was a dragon champion. It was a giant mantis-shaped destroyer.

Wing Leigh.3795:

If I remember right, Shiro Tagachi assassinated the emperor and many others at a festival. It is unknown why other then power. While in the middle of Usurping his throne, this little assassin in training shadowsteps behind the Emperor’s Throne, stabbing him in the shoulder.

He did it because he was told the Emperor was going to kill him by a fortune teller who had been right previously. This was just a ploy though, as she was an agent of Abaddon who was trying to cause havoc on the world. Shiro slowly went mad with paranoia (more or less – this isn’t explicitly stated, the paranoia part, but we can see in Factions with a flashback cinematic that the Fortune Teller’s words were causing serious problems for Shiro’s psyche), delved into dark arts (presumably because of his paranoia), and decided to assassinate the emperor, absorbing the power that Dwayna had granted the emperor in the process.

The thought that Shiro did it for power and the throne is speculation from an in-universe part before knowledge of Abaddon.

Wing Leigh.3795:

Vizu was killed by Shiro, but he in the progress of murdering her, reinforcements cut him right down the middle with his own swords.

Nope. Vizu crippled Shiro then got struck herself, during which Shiro was cut down. Vizu was then able to shadowstep away from the initial Jade Wind blast but eventually got caught by it on the Jade Sea’s coast. She was one of the last to die from the Jade Wind, and the last from the Harvest Temple.

Wing Leigh.3795:

Her spirit was made Lore on why spirits come back in this unclear to me around the time Shiro started corrupting souls and bodies of the dead.

A few years after the Jade Wind, Vizu’s body was found and ritualists pulled her soul from the Underworld to have her “live” in Tahnnakai Temple, where she was at least until Factions.

Wing Leigh.3795:

If Vizu was strong enough to single handedly injure the most important enemy in a GW1 Campaign, and resist his temptation as a “Spirit Corruptor,” she should be an ally to us.

This would not be a straight up GW 1 reference. Most GW1 players when asked “Who killed Shiro Tagachi originally” would answer the “Kurzick and Luxon leaders” if anything at all. Many do not know the effort Vizu made.

Vizu is celebrated by the Canthan empire as the hero who slew Shiro – just as the Kurzicks celebrate Saint Viktor as the one, and Luxons celebrate Archemorus as the one, even though all three killed him. She was not forgotten.

However, bring her back in GW2? Maybe if we go to Cantha. But the spirits in Tahnnakai Temple get replaced over time, just as Togo replaced Kolai.

Wing Leigh.3795:

as many GW1 players don’t know her as more then an AI they did 3-4 missions with.

That’s their fault for not watching cinematics or reading primary quest dialogues, since her story of her contribution was told directly to players there in the primary story of the game, point blank even, at the end of the mission she was introduced with – and at the end of the mission prior.

BTW, this link may interest you for the lore facts behind the events of the Jade Wind: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/An_Empire_Divided

Avariz.8241:

In the real world Avatars are from real a region. -snip- The differences between us is I have just acknowledge this diverse source and different practices where as you have not.

The word avatar simply means an embodiment or personification of something, usually a deity. Real world usage is 100% irrelevant in the game of Guild Wars.

And honestly, kitten you. Excuse me if that’s harsh, but don’t bloody well insult me. I have made it a hobby to try to study other cultures and mythologies. So don’t go well saying that I don’t have an acknowledgement or knowledge of diverse practices when you don’t know whether I do or not.

Besides that, it is, as said 100% irrelevant to how the word is used in a fantasy setting.

It is a FACT that the NPC met in Cathedral of Silence story quest is not Grenth, but his (or rather, one of his) avatar(s) and one of the Seven Reapers. It is a fact that we have never once ever seen the gods themselves with the exception of Abaddon, Kormir, and Dhuum.

Don’t bring in real world meanings behind words with insults to people that you clearly don’t even know.

Avariz.8241:

The seven heroes who accompanied Grenith, there is certainly one who pointed out the fact that he was one of the seven and he has taken on the form of Grenith’s Avatar, but this clearly tells us he is not Grenith himself. This clearly indicate that his form is not his own but that of Grenith.

Uh, no. He never once says that he has taken on the form of Grenth’s Avatar. Him using Lich Form is just an updated version of him using a Smoke Phantom form from GW1.

Avariz.8241:

However, in the Temple Of The Six Gods, the Five (avatars) did no such thing. The scene as a whole did not exclude the Five have actually taken their own forms in that epoch but it does allow the fact that a third agent not of the five could have assumed the image of the Five in that epoch.

There are four things that prove you wrong, two I pointed out but will point out again:

1. The game itself tells us the one speaking is Lyssa’s Muse (that is, Lyssa’s avatar), not Lyssa herself.
2. Lyssa’s Muse talks of Lyssa in the third person.
3. Lyssa is the shared name of twins, Lyss and Ilya, not a single floating head.
4. When mortals look upon gods, they become blinded after a time. Looking at five gods at once would certainly have blinded such.

There’s also a fifth:

• Wintersday in GW1, where the Avatar of Dwayna and the Avatar of Grenth speak out in their gods’ name, but are not the gods themselves. They are just like the ones who appear elsewhere in the game (particularly the Avatar of Dwayna, who shares the same name).

Avariz.8241:

There is difference in nuances by you (third person) quoting the part of the scene of an avatar (first person) talking to me (second person). My own experience has been without you there, that Lyssa herself was talking directly me. That is my own personal experience. Though you don’t say so for yourself, I can accept the fact that other people could have the same scene but with the experience that Lyssa herself did not speak to them but instead a third intermediary spoke on behalf of the Five who is not of the Five.

….

Wow. Just wow.

Okay, how can I break this to you…

The cinematic does not change from person to person. It is the same for everyone. And the wiki has documented how it is for everyone – how it was for me, how it was for you (whether you realize it or not), and how it was for every other person who watched that cinematic. The only thing that changed was the party leader.

Saitam.9340:

I’m having a hard time thinking of an NPC who would be interested in seeing relatively uncompromising and zealous groups endanger the public for the sake of enhanced magitech. The only one that comes to mind off the bat is a revenge-fueled Zojja, potentially, seeking to erase the guilt and shame of Snaff’s past failure by making sure that Tyria is never again under-equipped to deal with the threat of the Dragons—by fueling petty wars and inciting these dangerous alliances.

Sounds like you’re trying to attach the figure to someone we know already.

Honestly, any asura would really fit the profile. More so if Inquest. Certain sylvari easily could, as could amoral humans and charr.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

My guess is that quite often they probably don’t agree on things.

Not just a guess. That’s a fact, and it’s why the position that the Marriner family has held since Cobiah exists which I believe is called Commodore, they’re the tie-breakers when the Council can’t decide, but they themselves are not part of the Council.

If Kiel was REALLY interested in a coup of Lion’s Arch – or anyone for that matter, rather than just the opportunity to join the council itself for the sake of being on the council and having a voice among few, they would go after the Commodore position, which by the way is guarded/spied on directly by the Master of Whispers. Though this is unknown except to Whisper agents. Given how Mai didn’t go after the Commodore position, and she was seemingly ordered by Scarlet to go after a Council position, Scarlet is either merely interested in having a voice in the Council and not running Lion’s Arch with an iron fist (which would require both the position of Commodore and the majority of the Captain’s Council members), or she knows that the Order of Whispers is keeping a close eye on the Commodore.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

^— Except I think in part of Mai’s dialogue she admits that her goal was to open up a seat on the council and then put herself on the council.

Yup, at the end of the Dragon Bash story chain, when Marjory considers her work done.

However, Malafide is correct in saying that there’s no way to know that there would be one and only one seat open on the council.

The lore of Thaumanova Reactor is spread throughout the continent – literally. A basic background:

Konig Des Todes

The Thaumanova Reactor is both huge and yet small. Basically everything about the Inquest can tie to the Thaumanova Reactor explosion.

Basically from what I recall it is this:

The Thaumanova Reactor was a small asuran city that had an Inquest base underground running currently unknown experiments – or rather, the full scope is unknown. We do know that some of their researched dealt with Chaos Magic. Something, also unknown, that the Inquest did caused the reactor to explode into what we see now. The Inquest base were also using crystals from the “Chaos Crystal Caverns” in Iron Marches, which with the explosion caused a “feedback” into the cavern – hence why it is now called Chaos Crystal Caverns.

At some point, the Inquest moved their Thaumanova Reactor research to the Thaumavore Inquiry Center, causing the chaos magic to spread north.

After the explosion (or maybe during?) the Infinite Coil Reactor that houses the Crucible of Eternity was built – the Thaumanova Reactor base was the Crucible’s “precursor” facility. Just south of the ICR, you can find chaos magic effects again. Given this, and some things found at Thaumanova – the four elemental tied areas (fire, nature, ice, water) which happen to all be tied to an ED (Primordus, jungle dragon, Jormag, deep sea dragon), as well as the purple crystal inside a cave nearby (same model as branded crystal), hints at the Thaumanova Reactor also being used to study the Elder Dragon magic. What’s also interesting is that the Infinite Coil Reactor also blew up, perhaps for similar reasons.

In short, for the Fractals, it boils down to this:

Would you rather watch an event we know a decent amount about – the fall of a god who gave magic to the world – in which the only real thing we’d gain is the appearance of the gods, which isn’t even definitive.

Or would you learn of why the reactor studying chaos magic exploded, see the reaction to chaos magic mixing with the Mists, and perhaps learn lore on magic itself and/or the Elder Dragons?

While I’d love to see the fall of Abaddon, lore wise, the Thaumanova Reactor’s more interesting to me. There’s not going to be much new lore to the fall of Abaddon beyond what we see. It’ll only be seeing what the Crystal Sea could have looked like and what Abaddon and perhaps the other gods could have looked like at the time.

Saitam.9340:

First, the reactor explosion is warping the very fabric of the universe, even time. As evidenced by the steam creatures that occasionally get ported into the reactor, anything could happen, from any place or any time. Possibilities abound.

I’ve always taken those steam creatures to be getting pulled from the Shiverpeaks. Just teleportation effects.

Saitam.9340:

Secondly, the reactor might have something to do with the sixth Elder Dragon. Considering its proximity to Maguuma and the Inquest connection, we might learn some very interesting things by studying the reactor.
Think of the plot of Half Life, The events surrounding Black Mesa are very similar to what could potentially have happened at Thaumanova.

Not just the Sixth Elder Dragon, but Jormag, Kralkatorrik, the DSD, and Primordus as well! Only Zhaitan doesn’t have a hinted elemental tie to the Thaumanova Reactor – the elements of the others are all there, even though Kralkatorrik’s is just one crystal (which is needed to charge the matrix key!).

Saitam.9340:

Evon is openly a competitor with the Consortium. However, he still made a profit selling Consortium supplies and equipment through the Black Lion Trading post. He also gained further customers from the refugee influx through LA to Southsun Cove. Lastly, with the Consortium out of the way in Southsun, having done most of the leg-work of setting up infrastructure, the area is more-or-less completely open to him to exploit for profit.

1. That seems more like a mechanic, rather than lore. I mean, Anet isn’t going to make a second gemstore just to fit the lore.
2. Not really, the refugees didn’t really have anything to buy stuff with, so there’d actually be fewer customers if anything – as some of those refugees may have been previous customers who now couldn’t afford the BLTP’s pricings. But arguing either way is relatively speculative.
3. The Consortium are not “out of the way” – they just cannot force the refugees to remain on the island. They still own those buildings, and they still try to make a profit out of Southsun (because the Consortium brass are idiots who don’t realize how dangerous the place is because they’ve never been there).

Saitam.9340:

Part of my interest in implicating Evon in the MA/Southsun affairs is due to the way that Arenanet has handled him so far. He’s basically a brand-new, no-background character seizing an opportunity for the spotlight that had previously been nothing but a shop NPC. I could see Arenanet writing him in as a behind-the-scenes schemer in the end to spice up his otherwise empty character.

The gemstore updates always give a little blurb from Evon – an in-character advertisement. He was certainly not a no-background character nor was he brand-new. He has minimal background, true, but he’s had dialogue that gave him background since day 1 of GW2’s release. Though now that he’s in Labyrinthine Cliffs it’s gone (temporarily, I’m sure). Replaced by Sareb, his aide-de-camp (and interestingly, a female sylvari o.O).

Sareb tells some of his background in his places, explaining that he left the Legions (aka is a deserter) because he felt his military knowledge would help him in world commerce.

Saitam.9340:

As an aside, your female Sylvari theory—perhaps Faolain? She certainly has the motivation and fits the bill that the Dredge described. Maybe not as Scarlet, but as the MA perpetrator.

I wouldn’t put it past her and I have thought of it…

But I see the personal nemesis as more of a figure interested in technology for some reason – perhaps personal profit? – which Faolain doesn’t fit. Evon would certainly fit, but he’s not a she, so that cuts him out.

Unless the “she” that the dev let slip was a red herring, which I’ve always considered.

Saitam.9340:

Where did you hear that Kasmeer and Kiel were childhood friends?

Kasmeer and Marjory. It was part of her talks with Faren, iirc, or her text dialogue during Secrets of Southsun.

Saitam.9340:

Evon stood to profit from the Molten attacks with his Consortium connections.

Uhhh.. Evon is a competitor with the Consortium. Evon leads the Black Lion Trading Post, which the Consortium openly introduced themselves as a rival company towards. Evon gained nothing from the Molten Alliance attack and has no connection to the Consortium.

Before you make tinfoil theories, at least get the facts right?

Evon has had nothing to gain by the Molten Alliance as we have seen. Nor has he anything to gain from the Soushsun Cove situation. Nor did Kiel in either situation, since her promotion came after the Ancient Karka incident, and then the second with defeating Mai – which she only got a “promotion” by commandeering a ship (technically she didn’t get promoted in the Lionguard).

Furthermore, you’re making a large presumption that the Flame Legion would listen to a human, whom they fanatically detest just as they do female charr. I cannot see the person who created the Molten Alliance being a human nor female charr. I suspect that the one who instigated the MA alliance is a sylvari, given the dredge hatred for norn and asura (due to Inquest, per SE path 1), the Flame hatred of human and female charr, and our knowledge of the person being female. A female sylvari is all that’s really left, because those two groups are unreasonable in their hatreds.

I further suspect that Scarlet and this unknown indivdual are the same person, because both the Aetherblade and Inquest union and the Molten Alliance’s allegiances have been about furthering technologies as far as we have seen, though the Aetherblades have additional goals as did the MA, the core of the alliances were improving their odds and technology/magitech. I suspect Scarlet is out for such a situation – for whatever reason.

Mr. E I believe is a human in Divinity’s Reach. He seems to know a lot – too much for Evon – of what’s going on in DR, and has shown interest in the Ministry – of which Evon would gain nothing to be interested in.

Evon seems to be a third card on the table for mysterious actions. He’s a briber and blackmailer from what I’ve seen and could tell, who’ll do what he needs to get into a better position without dirtying his hands (perhaps). His interest in the fall of Abaddon is hinted to be religious as well. He’s probably a situation in his own right that should be looked at, but I don’t think it’s Mr. E.

There’s just too much that point at Scarlet and Mr. E not being related to Kiel and Evon. It’s an interesting thought, but too much would point away, and I doubt that ArenaNet would put that many red herrings.

Those are the avatars. It explicitly says in the cinematic that the one speaking is Lyssa’s Muse. That’s her avatar. She does speak of Lyssa in the third person.

Lyssa’s Muse: “You are not alone. The gods are always watching.”
Kormir: “Watching? We need your help. We are only mortals, and we challenge a god.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “There was a time when the gods walked the earth. Every thought and achievement was a gift of the gods.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “But now you must realize that our gifts are within you. Dwayna lives in your compassion, Balthazar in your strength.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “Melandru dwells in your harmony, Grenth in your justice.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “And in your inspiration, Lyssa is there.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “The divinity is within you. And so, we give you our blessing. That should suffice for the task ahead.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “And to you, Kormir, a most special gift.”
Lyssa’s Muse: “This is your world, now. This is your decision. You must make the choice that only a mortal could make.”

So once more, those are not the gods themselves. They are the avatars, which can be summoned at statues when the world has favor.

And no, the avatars are not different forms of the gods. They are separate beings entirely. The Avatars of Grenth, for example, are the Seven Reapers – the mortals who stood with Grenth when Dhuum was overthrown.

Rather than repeating what was said: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/Blue-water-orb-slight-spoilers/first

Konig Des Todes.2086:

You have to pay a lot of attention to the storyline involved with it, because there’s quite a bit in minor side-lines or even the dialogue boxes (not voice acted) with Sayeh, but Sayeh gives a lot of information about it. From what she tells us:

• It’s a thing of legend from the depths, something that wouldn’t be known to surface dwellers.
• Its origins have been forgotten, even to the “deep dwellers” (as Sayeh calls the underwater races), but it is known to be extremely powerful
• It holds its own dangers (what said dangers are, are unknown).

From what we know of the orb otherwise:

• It holds residual effect.
• It counters Zhaitan’s corruption.
• It is revered close to the krait’s Prophets.

All this comes directly from the storyline and within the game. Nothing else is known at the moment as far as I have seen.

Avariz.8241:

Lore wise we all know what Abbadon looks like from GW 1. He would be like that humanoid giant chained up to the cliff in the cliff face fractual. However instead of a human head he will have a big brain insect head stuck on a humanoid body similar to the Margonites but very much bigger. Game play wise I would take cue from Zhaitan/all other demigods fights, and a lot of people have found these initially very disappointing. Now that Anet have revamp them, I found them to be epic as expected when first promised at the beginning.

Actually, lore we have claims that his appearance changed over time. He looked different before his fall compared to Nightfall, and the statue found in the Temple of Abaddon – along with earlier concept art for him – shows him more human like than not.

In terms of appearance, I expect Abaddon to look like his temple statue, since those temple statues are supposedly to look like the gods themselves, as they’re the ones carved by Malchor.

Avariz.8241:

FlamingFoxx.1305:

…

Is there anything to suggest that he has always looked that way? I imagine after being struck down by the other Gods and then imprisoned in the Realm of Torment you might look a little worse for wear also xD. (Also the murals depict him in his demonic state so maybe he has always looked like that I don’t know?)

At the time of GW 1 it can be said Abbadon’s main followers were Margonites and Abbadon appeared mainly as a Margonite. However at the time of the Six and Arrah it can be said their main followers were human and therefore the Six can appear in human form. This could mean that at Abbadon’s fall when his main followers were human he could appear in human form.

ERm, not quite.

Firstly, Margonites are (or rather, were) human – a human nation of sea-farers, akin to the Luxons, to be exact.

Secondly, nothing says other than some illusions to mix into humans that they can change their appearance – and even then that’s only Lyssa and Dwayna. Abaddon didn’t “look like a human because he had human followers” – he looked like a human because he looked like a human.

Or so as far as we know.

His appearance changed for Nightfall due to still unexplained reasons. If you follow pre-Nightfall lore released solely to the Asian community, then it’d be that for all of the gods, one’s goodness/evilness and intention warps one’s appearance – the good look beautiful and divine, the evil look dark and twisted; Abaddon’s appearance slowly changed over time, even before his fall, with blue wings turning into blackened insectoid scythes. However, if you go with the Nightfall gw.dat lore, then he had to rebuild his body from the land of the Realm of Torment itself, and that’s more likely to be accurate, and would explain why he’s only a head and two hands in GW1.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I think it’s pretty obvious why they removed it. It was in the explorable, which you must also visit before fighting Zhaitan. So that wouldn’t make any sense, so see a dead Zhaitan when he isn’t defeated yet.

You don’t go to the explorable version of Arab before killing Zhaitan…

You do go to some of the same area you cover in Arab explorable, but you uncover a lot more, including a PoI called “Zhaitan’s Rest” that can only be seen in the Seer path – where the dragon was on the map in beta.

But the reason for the corpse removal is obvious imo. He dies WAY to the east of the map, beyond the reach of Arab explorable. Perhaps beyond the city itself – if they ever open up the eastern side of Orr, the corpse may be there.

My guess?

There are five of us.

Abaddon fought five gods.

Remember Urban Battleground Fractal and turning into charr?

Yeah.

But you’re right about the reactor – it wouldn’t be offered if it wasn’t intended to be something interesting. Now here’s the kicker: we can only guess as to why it’d be put on par to the Fall of Abaddon, while we know why the Fall of Abaddon is so interesting. Makes it more… enticing, no?

We really need to have a thread stickying this answer. Cuz I see this oh so often. Some links:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lore – fan written, but accurate as of GW1’s lore – there are things in GW2 that have shown for GW1 lore to be “falsified” (mainly things from the History of Tyria document). Read that article, click all the links and read those articles – especially in the nav bar at the bottom.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lore – same as above, click all links, but not entirely accurate as of GW2. The GW2W has been falling lower and lower in lore quality articles for a while, with more and more speculation or false information being added, and far far far more information being never touched. Probably innumerable at this point, really. (Well, me and some others are hoping to work on a way to fix this, to avoid reliance on that wiki since it can be edited by any joe smoe and the synops there are more worried about the cleanliness of the RC rather than the accuracy of the articles…).

Those are pretty much the best places to start, but I would focus primarily on the official documents (in the nav bars, denoted as such), timelines, and on the GWW, the storylines and main lore article.

The whole bit about the Fall of Abaddon lore is that it is going to show the events that caused about the Exodus of the Gods – the event where the human gods left the world of Tyria for good over a thousand years prior. It would give us the first and only look at what the gods appeared as, (particularly Abaddon pre-fall since he supposedly looked far different than seen in GW1). It’s pretty much the biggest lore point in the game, when magic was supposedly introduced to the world, when the gods left, when the Crystal Sea was turned into a desolate desert, etc. Even if it doesn’t tell us much of it, we’ll see things that would lead to a lot of questions answered, and likely more new questions to be asked.

Like FlamingFoxx said, if you got a more specific question, feel free to ask! We can tell you the answer, or direct you to where you can find it if it’s a bit one (or heck, do both!).

FlamingFoxx.1305:

One of the dev’s mysteriously posted ‘I wonder what happens when chaos energy mixes with the mists’ (not a direct quote but thats the gist of it) in response to the thuamanova fractal – which does of course make it sound a lot more interesting.

I want to support Kiel, but the Abaddon fractal is just too tempting to turn down

There was also a comment that hinted that Evon’s wanting to study Abaddon’s fall may be religious.

I’m interested in the Thaumanova Reactor because it can grant lore on the ED.

I’m interested in the Fall of Abaddon because of a fan-fiction I wrote (and am re-writing thanks to GW2 lore) being based around that.

But I’m also interested in what Kiel and Evon would do if they become/don’t become a member of the Captain’s Council.

I may end up not voting at all. So torn.

There actually is lore in the Fractals.

It’s just not said to us pointblank. The fractals don’t go slapping us in the face, grabbing the collars of our shirts and shaking us while shouting “THIS IS THE LORE I HAVE TO GIVE YOU! LISTEN TO IT AND ENJOY!”

Though Anet hasn’t yet perfected their way to telling lore, fractals have lore. And honestly, the lack of explanation allows for discussions and theorycrafting, which is honestly the best part of game lore.

Cliffside Fractal, for example, is an early-history Tyrian example. Urban Battleground is an alternate version of the Searing. Uncategorized is a non-Rata Sum asuran megastructure/city – we don’t really know what the situation is, but it is a story that Anet intend to tell and elaborate on still, but nonetheless it’s a representation of something that happened (or will happen?).

So the Fractals do have lore. It’s just not obvious and in your face like other games – as is the case for most of GW2’s lore.

SynfulChaot.3169:

This argument again? Really?

Why can’t people understand that as players, we do not want what they’re getting!. If we were the ones that attained godhood, the game would be over. Nothing more to do. If we were the ones that led the Pact, the chara would be so busy leading we’d get to do nothing. If we were the ones that were being pushed for Captain’s Council, we’d be embroiled in internal politics and stuff and not get to have fun.

We don’t want that stuff. We want to play the game. Those charas are made to take those roles as, as a player, those rewards are not rewards at all.

And it’s rather silly to have a million gods, a million Pact Marshals, a million Captain’s Council members… As a single player game, that’d work. But as an MMO? Nope.

All hail Konig Deathrazor, the 1839475th Human God of Knowledge!

Reason to vote for Kiel:

Thaumanova Reactor is pretty much tied to all things Inquest. Including being the precursor to the Crucible of Eternity. In other words, Thaumanova Reactor is the precursor facility to Inquest’s primary research facility on the Elder Dragons (which also exploded and also exhibits chaos magic).

So in the end, you pretty much get this with the Fractal choices:

Gods lore vs. Elder Dragons lore

I say to Anet, why not both? Like Ghost.3208 said, bring the other one later! Evon would be interested in revealing this either way and has the money to it.

#VoteSuwashthePirate

Just went to her. It’s old stuff I believe. The line of LA is for non-Whispers Pact Commanders, however it’s bugged as it always was for Whisper members. Fairly sure that it’s always been like that.

Her dialogue has been seemingly bugged since day 1. Maybe they merely unbugged it? I’ll have to see it for myself though, to see the full dialogue.

Kasmeer has shown no signs of being a magic user – and a mesmer, to pull of the trick to make her seem like a man. Similarly, the two are childhood friends, iirc. Why would Kasmeer need to lie to such a person?

It would definitely be interesting to see what happens to Kiel if she lost the election. But while she’s a captain now with her own ship and – possibly – own crew, she’s still a lionguard. She’s still under Magnus’ command. So she wouldn’t be out of a job.

You seem to be misunderstanding the world’s view of Primordus in relation to the other Elder Dragons.

Tyrians know of Primordus, Jormag, Kralkatorrik, and Zhaitan.

Tyrians do not know (widely at least, some niche groups like the Order of Whispers, Inquest, quaggans and friends, and Durmand Priory (by extension the Pact) (may) know of the other two) of the deep sea dragon or the jungle dragon.

Tyrians are threatened by Kralkatorrik, Jormag, and Zhaitan on a regular basis.

This is why there’s not much talked about Primordus. People know he exists – but he, like the DSD and if it’s awake the jungle dragon, are not a “large” threat. Not an immediate one at least.

In character, you’d probably be hard pressed to find folks who don’t know of Zhaitan, Jormag, and Kralkatorrik. But finding people who don’t know of Primordus wouldn’t be hard. In the same light, there’d be few humans who don’t know of centaurs, but there may be some who don’t know of grawl (example: Cobiah, a Krytan 100 years prior to GW2, didn’t know what a charr or asura looked like until shortly after Orr’s rise; he just never saw one before, though he’s heard stories of them from others who met them).

EagleRas.3157:

We were never informed on what became of this dragon so what if these zepherites are using this dragon to gain power or experiment with this being.

Here lies your first flaw. The Zephyrites are from the Brotherhood of the Dragons who protected the baby dragon. Therefore, the Zephyrites would be unlikely to cause harm to it, given how they seem to continue their duty of serving Glint – as was the reason why they took her body, to prevent it from going into the wrong hands.

EagleRas.3157:

One example of this could be one ofthe first artifacts that you encounter that says it seems to be alive.

Herein lies your second flaw. The merchants you see throughout the Bazaar of the Four Winds – and the Bazaar itself even – are unrelated to the Zephyrites. Those “Unusual Merchants” are Tyrians, not Zephyrites.

This said, I suspect that they are keeping the child(ren) alive (side note: while we saw one in game there were many eggs, more than one could have hatched) and has been doing so for a while, probably why we haven’t seen or heard of it or the Forgotten, and the odd lack of appearance in Edge of Destiny.

Dragon champions don’t only come as dragons and the Megadestroyer could be considered one such thing as could the Destroyer of Worlds perhaps; and as was the Destroyer of Life in Edge of Destiny.

But I presume the reason why Primordus doesn’t have a dragon-shaped dragon champion would be due to his forces being very rare above ground. There are likely dozens underground, fighting the stone dwarves.

As far as we know, they didn’t. Rytlock tossed it aside before leaving – he certainly didn’t take it with him. There was no account of finding/taking the spear in Logan’s mental recap. Caithe and Zojja left together and seemingly without a spear.

That leaves Eir, who had given up, to have taken the spear. Or for Caithe to have returned.

Problem with Mr. E=Evon is that Marjory would have probably denoted in the short story that the hand that covered her mouth was not human.

Furthermore, Kasmeer doesn’t show any recognition of knowing who E is, and works for Marjory, not E. At least as far as she tells.

Problem with Scarlet=Kiel is that her hair isn’t red or reddish. It’s brown. And furthermore, Mai would probably have made a comment about Scarlet coming to thwart her own plans, and it would seem odd about being told that Kiel interviewed Mai about the plans (and gloated at Mai).

Fafnir.5124:

Char should replace Char for all races to be represented on the console.

It would be funny if the pirate quagan entered the running.

Uh, it was Theo Ashford who died – a human.

The charr that died was merely a representative from the Legions for the ceremony.

And I agree. Suwash for Captain’s Counci!

lordkrall.7241:

Confirmed in the live-stream that the Fall of Abaddon refers to the battle against the gods, NOT the GW1 mission.

Well I’ll be kitten ed.

Personality wise, I’m Kiel all the way. But the god kitten ed fall of Abaddon and not death?

kitten YOU ARENANET GIVE US BOTH FRACTALS! DON’T BE LAZY NOW!!!

Honestly, I cannot see it as referring to the event in year 0. It would require a lot of new resources compared to either the Nightfall fall or the Thaumanova reactor explosion. You have the location, the Crystal Sea’s coast, you have Abaddon, Grenth, Dwayna, Lyssa, Balthazar, and Melandru, you have the Forgotten and Margonites, and likely more I’m forgetting.

I cannot see them revealing the appearance of the five gods over a mere fractal.

Seeing that one body is indeed a glitch. You’re not supposed to be able to reach it, and that corpse is there because Zhaitan is an actual NPC, and making it disappear after passing sight through a supposedly impassable barrier is indexed work.

It is a glitch. There is no huge ocean in that location. It is not lore. Simple as that.

I fail to see why the fractals is the real lore lover’s decision.

On one hand, we already know a lot of the Thaumanova Reactor. It held an Inquest base underground and they messed up with their experiment on Chaos Magic which made the reactor itself blow up and cause a tear in reality that was mainly transportation magic – basically turning the area into god-level mesmer magic. The experiment results got transferred to central eastern Brisban Wildlands, at the skill point, and the Infinity Coil Reactor which houses the Crucible of Eternity was built as a replacement. Which indicates a possible research of the Elder Dragons (further supported by how each section of the reactor turned into an elemental theme which an ED has, as well as the Branded-looking crystal incthat cave).

On the flip side, the fall of Abaddon most likely refers to the Nightfall battle, given the other fall would be including the appearance of the other five gods.

However, there is something far more important in this election for lore lovers…

The consequences of Kiel or Evon on the Captain’s Council. They tell us four things they intend to do, 2 of which are the same for the other, but think on their personalities and how such a person would be in a government.

Evon is by far a more political and economical mind, but he shows to be out for personal interest, willing to bribe.

Kiel is a more militant mind and hard worker. She would probably be a far more honest and overall, imo, a better government official. I can easily see Evon avoiding threats that wouldn’t harm his interests, but Kiel wouldn’t I’m sure.

Either way though, I expect the winner to stick it to the Consortium who’re said to be paying the Captain’s Council off.

And do keep in mind that whoever is the winner… Will likely influence the direction of the living story in four month’s time or so.

Technically, they don’t view running from Jormag as a defeat. This was a stressed point Jeff Grubb made leading up to GW2’s release. They view it as a momentary set-back, refusing to take it as a defeat. Most of them anyways.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

That argument really doesn’t hold any water, since human kind is defending itself, while the Dragons are attacking. They are quite obviously the aggressor. And humans don’t manipulate others to make them their mindless servants.

I didn’t know obvious aggressors only defended their territory. I guess Branded are mindless aggressors of pure outright evil for fighting only those who enter the Dragonbrand.

Don’t enter the Dragonbrand, and you won’t be fighting Branded. Interesting concept. Totally makes the Branded pure unrelenting evil.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Zhaitan, for example, corrupts corpses, and Primordus the land. Those acts in of themselves are far from evil.

In what reality is corrupting the land and other beings not considered to be an evil act?

Let’s stop using the word corrupting for a minute, because all that really means in the Elder Dragons’ sense is “turning into a minion”

In the statement I said, there is no “other being” – just dead bodies. Those beings are no longer related to the body. It’s just a lifeless husk. Is it evil for a necromancer to use a corpse to make an undead minion? Or a doctor to study a cadaver? Is it evil to cut down trees to use them for lumber? Or polluting the air from using machines?That’s little different than what I was saying in those two cases.

I’m merely playing devil’s advocate, but I think folks are too quick to judge and solely relying on the view of the races, who suffer first from side-effects.

The books were released in reverse chronicle order. Chronicle order is Sea of Sorrows -> Edge of Destiny -> Ghosts of Ascalon.

However, there is no real reason to read them in order. They are individual stories with little to no relation to each other, and Sea of Sorrows is based nearly 100 years before the other two. There’s nothing that really isn’t said in general gameplay/knowledge of GW2’s story that spoils books. Only about Lion’s Arch being rebuilt by pirates is really a spoiler to SoS if you only read the books, and only about Destiny’s Edge’s division is a spoiler if you read GoA before EoD. But both facts are highly pronounced in the game, near impossible to avoid.

Sorrow’s Embrace, the Marriner Plaques, and select NPCs are really the only spoilers to the book, truthfully.

I saw nothing in Dragon Bash that said “they are evil!” Rather, all I saw was “they are a threat that we must overcome!”

Threat != evil

Regarding the “evil in design and execution” – the former of that, design, is really subjective as well. How does something become “evil in design”? And how are the Elder Dragon’s actions such? Zhaitan, for example, corrupts corpses, and Primordus the land. Those acts in of themselves are far from evil. If they viewed the races of Tyria as a plague – as a threat to themselves and are merely acting in retaliation and/or in preemptive strikes against what they view to be a threat to their well being – which, by the way, if we were to take the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan’s words as truth regarding “Defilers! Poisoners! We see you. We know your foul intent. These waters must remain as they are – and you must die!” as truthful, then that is exactly what they’re doing. Attacking the races out of self-preservation.

And about “evil in execution” – again, how does one define what’s evil in execution. By killing someone? Again, self-defense comes into play. As just one example.

It seems to me that you’re looking at this in a very one-dimension view, thinking of only white and black, at only one side of the argument of how to define something evil or not. There’s just far too many unknowns and variables, all lying in the Elder Dragon’s pscyhe – their view on the world, their reason for their action, and whether or not they are even capable of not doing their current actions.

And if you really think about it, what’s the pattern of events here with the Elder Dragons? They wake up causing mass destruction (not their fault, they’re just rising from slumber!); they attack primarily in retaliation, at first only killing those who enter their territory (little more than a territorial animal like wolves); and for centuries they’re actually avoiding their spread of influence (for whatever reason). Only Primordus had pre-emptively attacked the races, while Kralkatorrik is arguable, depending on the reason/exact cause of the Dragonbrand (it was certainly not a passive action as we were first led to believe, but was his goal to brand the entire land? He was after Glint, who betrayed him, so I doubt that he was intent on killing hundreds as he reached her).

I haven’t yet finished reading Sea of Sorrows so I don’t know if it’s mentioned that Zhaitan made a pre-emptive strike against the races, but nonetheless, other than Primordus no Elder Dragon has, to my knowledge, made the attack first. So in effect, all of their actions could be solely in self-defense!