Guild Wars 2

Citadel of Flames isn’t related to the Elder Dragons one bit – not openly at least. There are minor hints of the possibility of Flame Legion trying to siphon power from Primordus, but that’s all. And said connection isn’t hinted at in CoF, but Iron Marches.

There is NOTHING that relates Kuunavang to the deep sea dragon or to water in general – let alone being made from water which would be a requirement for the Elder Water Dragon. That is fully player speculation based on the baseless belief that the DSD was in Cantha – specifically the Jade Sea. However, it is in the Unending Ocean.

If Kuunavang is related to an Elder Dragon, it’d be some sort of Elder Sky/Star Dragon. It is implied that she and Rotscale are like Glint but yet not, similar to the Elder Dragons’ likeness and difference to each other in a pre-release interview with Jeff and Ree, mainly due to Kuunavang’s relation to the celestial skills. But that one is still a stretch (she’s flesh and blood, and not undead either; unlike all other dragon minions which get altered to the dragon’s element – fire, crystal, ice, water and seemingly vegetation and decay).

I can easily see Rytlock in non-heavy armor, if he’s going to some social gathering and he wants to look nice. Though I would expect him to just put a shiner to his best armor set, being Blood and charr and all.

They keep the armor to the personality of the characters.

SlyFoxSays.5342:

In no way cannon, but I was considering the notion that perhaps the reason why it is suggested in Winds of Change that there are currently no known dragons operating in Cantha is due to that fact that they are sort of sleeping away under Echovald forest and the Jade Sea and are unable to rise due to the landscape around them having been changed so drastically by the Jade Wind. (Water dragon with no water/ forest dragon with no forest)

First, I presume by Winds of Change you refer to the GW2 in-game book titled such and not the GW1 Beyond storyline. Either way, neither one hints at a lack of Elder Dragons (rather, just hints that someone – whom could be the most uneducated bloke in Tyria – thinks there’s none there).

Secondly, the water dragon = Deep Sea Dragon; the “forest” (or rather it seems, vegetation) dragon = Mordremoth. The former is heavily implied to be within the Unending Ocean, specifically former krait territory; he certainly has influence there. Mordremoth’s heavily implied to be in the Maguuma Jungle somewhere.

And it should be noted that the Echovald Forest and Jade Sea were thawing out even by Factions’ time – and outright said to be minorly by Eye of the North’s time.

SlyFoxSays.5342:

Given that we already know the locations of 3 dragons on Tyria and already have the set up for a main antagonist for Elona (Palawa Joko), would it be too far-fetched to assume that the last remaining dragons will belong to the Canthan story line?

Kind of, given the lack of real evidence to an Elder Dragon in Cantha.

The best there is would be that it’s implied – but not heavily – for Kuunavang to have been a dragon champion.

SlyFoxSays.5342:

I can even see a tie in with Kanaxai and Urgoz being dragon champs, as their back stories are murky at best: A demon of unknown origins with the ability to corrupt those around him and an enraged forest spirit guarded by ancient wardens of unknown origins. All of which, were unaffected by the Jade Wind. That sounds a lot like dragon magic to me!

Urgoz was a “forest spirit” – in other words, Urgoz alongside other forest spirits never named and Zhu Hanuku (called a “sea spirit”) as well as implied crab spirit (if taken literally) are akin to the Spirits of the Wild – at least in the words used for them.

It is EXTREMELY unlikely for Urgoz to be related to the Elder Dragons. Kanaxai has a better chance but in all honesty… not likely either. He’d have to be tied to some sort of “Elder Nightmare Dragon” which doesn’t really fit the Elder Dragon theme of being tied to nature and elements, since dreams and nightmare – Kanaxai’s schlemiel – is more psychological and personality (e.g., under the realm of the gods). However, demons from the Mists are very much able to twist other beings, iirc, and just magic in general is needed (hello Mad King Thorn!) – though a god (aka Abaddon) can do such on large scale.

Elder Dragons are not needed to do mindkittens and change skin into something else. Besides, the Oni don’t fit the Elder Dragon minion MO either – they’re not elemental at all!

SlyFoxSays.5342:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cantha this probably needs be rewritten then, as it totally implies xenophobia….
“Emperor Usoku, raised the Canthan military by spending millions in gold and conquered the still-warring vassal states of the Luxons and Kurzicks, forcing them fully into the empire once more. With this done, he then drove out all non-humans and closed the borders to Cantha.”

Usoku was indeed Xenophobic.

But keep in mind that he’s dead by GW2’s time. Or at least should be. The date attributed to him taking control of Cantha is 1127 AE – nearly a two centurues before the game, and I doubt he’d be a teenager since he was Kisu’s successor who was already an old man by Factions’ time. Usoku was probably dead of old age if not battle/assassination before Zhaitan rose.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

Isn’t Cantha known as the Dragon Empire? Perhaps there are dragons located there just not Elder Dragons. Maybe there are lesser dragons there waiting for the word to strike?

It’s named after the Celestial Dragon (supposedly at least). Celestials (are said to be) humans who were elevated into the stars by the Six Gods – some personally. They appear to be akin to the gods’ avatars, just more like “Cantha’s avatars.”

Some, such as myself, believe they are the reason why the dragons are in/moving to continental Tyria. Thing is, until near the end of the personal story, it’s merely theory that the Elder Dragons consume magic – and that theory is presented with small support 20-30 levels into the game and mainly around asura.

So Jennah would probably only be finding out about it by the time we’re killing Zhaitan.

And it’s not exactly clear to us whether folks know where the bloodstones are. I mean, The Shining Blade likely have records of the Maguuma, Shiverpeaks and Ring of Fire bloodstones, but given how dangerous they could be I doubt that they’d let that be public knowledge – and Gadd/Vekk knowing of the Shiverpeaks bloodstone… well, asura aren’t very sharing with their knowledge, especially at that time and before (the Rata Sum archives seems to be post-GW1 in its making). So there’s really nothing to say the common people – even the Priory truth be told – know of the location of those bloodstones, let alone anyone knowing where the fourth and fifth are.

wouw.5837:

You pose a good question. I would think the White Mantle would be Xenophobic, but they don’t have to be. However, I can only recall human bandits. Does anyone know of any non-human bandits?

No, but I don’t see a reason for the white mantle to be xenophobic, as long as you believe in the Unseen Ones.[/quote]I, too, wouldn’t see them as xenophobic. They probably wouldn’t let non-humans into their group (doing so would be like the Iron Legion putting a human as Tribune – that just isn’t going to happen), but I can see them working with others to further their goals. Via the bandits, they already do this with Inquest, centaurs, and Nightmare Court.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Actually, the graffiti in Beetletun is the centaur’s symbol, not the White Mantle/bandit’s one. We know that Caudecus is guilty of many things, including playing patron to bandits and conspiracy responsible for the deaths of Krytan citizens and soldiers, but there is no evidence tying him to the White Mantle beyond that both use the bandits to their own ends.

EDIT: No, it’s not centaur… what is that? Looks almost like grawl.

It’s the grawl “demonic graffiti” design which, like other grawl graffiti designs, are used in many non-grawl places.

It’s just meant to be atypical graffiti.

TBH, it’d be far more interesting if it was the bandit logo. But that thing’s probably well known – just its tie to the WM (if such exists, that’s still speculative) would be unknown.

dimachaerus.4962:

I was wondering if there is any possibility that he has minions under his command who wear heavy armor, and are something like a death/shadow knight-type class. I really enjoy the concept of a dark magic using, plate wearing warrior but I don’t know if that would make any sense within the GW universe.

Armor restrictions for professions is 100% purely mechanical and the only basis it holds in lore is that it’s “typical”

For example, Logan is clearly a guardian, but in Edge of Destiny he wears leather armor until the end where he becomes a Seraph captain.

So you can very well have a necromancer who prefers to wear leather or even metal armor (be it platemail or chainmail or other). But they wouldn’t some “shadowknight” – they’d just be necromancers in armor rather than robes.

dimachaerus.4962:

As dervishes and paragons are blend together into the guardian, I assume those are no longer an option.

Wrong.

Guardians are made from the practices of Monks, Paragons, and Ritualists, per Sea of Sorrows novel (exact wording would be “Monk traditions, Elonian protection magic, and Ritualist woohah” or some such, iirc – but dervishes weren’t really in the way of protection magic so much as paragons were).

ozma.3498:

ColinJohanson.2394:

You won’t see legendary armor any time soon, you will see Ascended Armor in 2013 for sure though, yes.

Then it’s confirmed… legendary back pieces!

“We aren’t quite ready to go into all the details here, but what I can say is you will see a specific way to build precursor items on your way to a legendary. On top of this, you’ll also see new legendary weapons and new types of legendary gear in 2013.” (source)

In all seriousness, if the blog post made less than a month ago was sincere and legendary armor is off the table, then that only leaves back pieces in terms of “new types of legendary gear in 2013”.

I think in a thread made about that post, it was stated to be trinkets.

Trinkets being amulets, rings, earrings/assessories and maybe backpieces (idk if backpieces are considered trinkets but I think so). These will likely exist solely for the legendary stat changing change, but I think – baselessly – that they may give the footstep effects or even something like the Prophecies divine aura.

While yes it was a joke, when I elaborated upon it, I realized that it would actually fit not only his position but his personality.

As to Kasmeer and Marjory knowing Faren is Mr. E – I don’t think that either would need to know – Faren would merely act as the contact between the two, since it seems neither know Mr. E’s true identity. He would merely be present acting as the “go between guy” when there really isn’t a “go between guy.”

Plus, Faren is a mesmer, so he’d be able to disguise himself, his voice, and/or his features.

Knox.8462:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Knox.8462:

BrunoBRS.5178:

correct me if i’m wrong, but gwen and kieran were sent to ebonhawke to protect it, they didn’t just grab a bunch of people and decided to found a city.

Ebonhawke was originally said to be a pre-existing city and Gwen and co were sent there to maintain the flow of supplies north, but they retconned it in the game to be an abandoned mining village (which is kind of boring).

well one doesn’t cancel the other out. the king needed supplies, he knew there was a mine area there, sent the ebon vanguard to reinstate the place.

at the end of the day, it still sounds like the place belongs to ascalonian nobility, not the two random soldiers that happened to be issued there.

No the King’s reasoning was retconned too, he sent them south due to some sort of mysterious threat emerging in the Crystal Desert. The Vanguard merely came across the abandoned town accidentally.

The previous backstory suggested that Ebonhawke was a surviving city that was supplying the north, which was more interesting to me.

Technically speaking… the King’s reasoning that was told to the Ebon Vanguard was to “defend the south from a threat” – but his reasoning learned from GoA may have been his true reasoning.

GW2 heavily plays on the theme of “subjective truths” – so really neither situation was a retcon, just facts presented by people who know different things. In GoA, it was known that it was a village and was fortified by the Vanguard and said to have been done so on the king’s orders. The Ebon Vanguard’s telling is that they weren’t told to fortify the place, but found it and did so.

Usually the truth lies between the lies.

It’s even said that the Vanguard suspect that the southern threat is a hoax by Adelbern for alternative reasons – until they meet charr down south.

Gnat.9405:

The reddit is spiraling out of control, and if mods are trolling something on such a large scale they will lose a lot of credibility.

In the thread over there, there was someone who messaged a mod and posted said mod’s response being that they know it’s a joke but stickied it because it would be funny.

Reddit mods are trolls.

DarcShriek.5829:

If Livia is still alive, why isn’t she actively hunting down and killing White Mantle bandits? They were always here enemies and I would think by now, being under the influence of the Scepter of Orr, she would be in full scale vengence on my enemies mode.

Who says she isn’t?

Though since the Shining Blade are downplaying the White Mantle’s continued existence (probably for good reason), I’d imagine Livia hunting them down would be the same.

Also, she no longer has the Scepter of Orr.

zao.2710:

I suggest you all check the main guild wars 2 subreddit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/
stickied post

Which only mentions old War in Kryta stuff from gw1. Nothing relevant to the living story. Why it got stickied is anyone’s guess.

@ Malafide: The White Mantle have more than just “some ties to some bandits” – if you pay attention to the open world and dialogue, you learn that the bandits, although trying to appear as disorganized factions, are in fact united. And in the personal story you learn that the White Mantle are backing/leading the bandits. Which is the case isn’t really known though.

But anyways, the chances of the WM being related are, imo, slim.

1. They are only indirectly tied, via the bandits holding an alliance with Inquest and Inquest allied with Aetherblades. But that’s like saying the centaurs and dredge are allied.
2. The bandit leaders, White Mantle, and ministry have the shared goal of ruling Kryta themselves. Scarlet seems intent on just causing havoc and death. Doesn’t seem like she’s geared towards usurping Jennah “the Tyrant” (as some bandit mooks are led to believe her to be).
3. Scarlet also seems interested in technology. I think her attacking Kryta in force is due to the Opening Ceremony. “You spoiled my fun” she says…. This is her revenge for stopping her hacking of the Watchknight. The Watchknight seems to be her main goal to me. And the lesson she’s going to teach? “Don’t get in my way, or you die”
4. Bandits and Ministry and WM showed no interest in tech.

The texture of the plant, I think, matches certain plants in the Dragonbrand.

Plot twist! Mr. E is Faren!

The truth of Kasmeer going to Southsun was to contact E, and that’s why she defended Faren when she calls him a pain.

We already know that Faren doesn’t like corruption in the Ministry, and he’d have good access to such information, unlike Kasmeer’s family that has fallen on hard times.

Unless those are just merely planets also floating in space.

Then again… how sure are you that they are planets? And not just chunks of shiny land? Or an unearthly glow of light akin to that in the middle of the Hall of Heroes?

Meant to post this earlier, this is the tree I meant.

BTW, the best trick to keeping your character out of screenshots: Grab a thief, trait into shadow mastery for the +1 second to stealth, slap on Shadow Refuge, Hide in Shadows, and Blinding Powder, and use them as you get into position, then do /sleep turn off UI and take your picture.

Though you can also just do /sleep if the angle’s good enough, and on asura makes it even easier.

Chadramar.8156:

Bit late for that, what with her being able to magically yank him across Tyria on a whim.

No she doesn’t.

She has the ability to communicate telepathically with him – supposedly across much greater distances than Ebonhawke→Glint’s Lair, but she can’t just go ringing a mesmeric bell and poof, Logan appears in a puff of butterfly smoke.

And he’s not even forced into going to her if she calls – it’s 100% his choice.

I discussed this with my guild earlier, and felt like I should post this here.

Have just been researching the Steam creatures and I found something interesting:

“These gaskets make good rings. I wonder what kind of metal this is.”
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Steam_Gasket_Ring

A kind of metal unknown as of 1325 AE…

Now, in Flame and Frost, we got a few items appearing in Flame Legion and Dredge bases, among these items is a “Mysterious Refined Ore” in Silex Castrum. This ore has a note attached to show it’s from the dredge, saying that this metal is a new discovery that must be mined in its liquid form but is highly magically conductive.

In Molten Facility, it was also possible to mine Azurite crystals and orbs – and in the dungeon we see the kidnapped slaves being forced to mine blue-ish gemstones (most likely Azurite).

This seems to only add onto Scarlet being the one behind the Molten Alliance – and I believe her goal has been to reverse engineer (or rather, to “invent in this timeline”) the steam creatures.

This made me remember something else from Flame and Frost:

Savant,

An individual who claims some preposterous connection with a former colleague of mine recently contacted me, and while his claims concerning that connection are dismissable, he does bring up a good point. Refugees have been streaming into the Black Citadel, Lion’s Arch, and Hoelbrak from the northwestern quadrant of the Diessa Plateau and the northeastern quadrant of the Wayfarar Foothills. I don’t know what’s going on there-and I’m too busy to investigate personally-so, it will have to be you. Go look into it at your earliest convenience. Don’t bother reporting back. I trust you to handle this matter with efficiency and style.

Good luck, and watch your ears out there.

—Zojja

Dear <Player Name>,

I reach out to you with the utmost urgency. It has been brought to my attention by two other members of Destiny’s Edge that they’re experiencing some trouble in Hoelbrak and the Black Citadel. Something, or someone, is burning both norn and charr out of their homes and forcing them to seek shelter and security in the cities. This is unprecedented, and I’m concerned. As a favor to my friends, I’m asking you to travel to one or both of these cities and see if you can offer any assistance. If this is as bad as they say, it may eventually threaten Krytan citizens as well. You’re the perfect choice to deal with this. I’d help, but I have the queen’s business to attend to.

—Logan

Valiant, I’ve got a job for you. My friends (most days) Rytlock and Eir have requested help. I can’t go myself-Nightmare Court trouble-so I’m sending you instead. If you will go, of course. Here’s all I know-some nasty situation in the Shiverpeaks is killing norn and charr on either side of the mountains. It’s gotten ugly, and the survivors have started migrating to Hoelbrak and the Black Citadel to get away from…whatever it is. Take your pick. Go to either the Wayfarer foothills or to Diessa Plateau, and see if you can assist the fleeing norn and charr. watch out for their injured pride, though. It’s likely to be the sharpest thing you encounter. I’ll see you soon.

—Caithe

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_and_Frost_mail

While the wiki claims the letter from Zojja speaks of Braham and his being Eir’s son when she refers to someone speaking of a former colleague of hers (something I’m doubtful because at that point ArenaNet were talking about how they don’t want LS and PS to clash, which that certainly would if you completed the PS), I think this may instead tie to the upcoming events. The letter could instead be referring to the events of the Infinity Ball (“former colleague” is still a peculiar word choice there, perhaps referring to Shodd, whom seems to be such) and the connection that seems dismissable may be Scarlet trying to recreate the steam creatures – something Zojja would know came from the future.

On the flip side, Logan’s letter sounds like it may be referring to preparations for the Queen’s Jubilee (since he doesn’t seem caught up in catching ministers or white mantle, that seems most likely). This leads me to suspect we’ll be learning of NC activities when we figure out who this Suspicious Stranger from the opening ceremony (aka possibly Scarlet) to be.

They were sent in the general direction of “south” to protect “the south.” And people were sent with them. They then found an abandoned mining village and established a semi-fort there to live in.

Infinite Coil Reactor* (aka Infinity Coil)

The Crucible of Eternity itself is the center of the Infinity Coil, located underground. But that’s nitpickery.

There are some interesting locations within the Infinite Coil Reactor, but you only got one screenshoted – aside from the six PoI’d zones and the center, there are small plazas within each “pie piece” in the hexagon – one being the entrance, another being the one I linked, and the most interesting one to me is between Zone Red and Zone Green – there’s a champion golem around a purple (iirc, floating) tree. iirc, between the others are other interesting things too. But the tree is what caught my attention the most.

Now I’m interested in finding what’s between the other zones and screenshotting.

About Scarlet’s ties to MA – it was actually said to be female not male that united the Flame and Dredge. I think her goal with them was more for tech (everything that she is hinted at being involved in relates to tech – MA, Dragon Bash thieving the hologram projectors, allies with Inquest, and now hacking Watchknights), with an addendum of wrecking havoc with Tyrian governments (so far, four of six were outright targeted; she may go after some Firstborns next if not stopped, and the Inquest already have influence in the Arcane Council so no need to go after them openly).

As for the Aetherblades’/Scarlet’s connection to Southsun – there may not be any. That felt more like a transitory storyline more than anything else, though if she had a connection I’d place her as the source of how Canach got those pollens. Him having Fused Gauntlets was explained in a post or video by someone saying that he was helping raid the Molten Facilities and got them as loot himself – much like the players (supposedly he was solo’ing a few, but it’s a darn shame we didn’t see him there ourselves).

I cannot see the Consortium – a business founded by asura – to be tied to either the Inquest or Aetherblades. Those two groups are evil (though the Inquest are presented as amoral, I wouldn’t consider them such) and possibly geared towards advancement in technology/understanding. The Consortium are amoral and care about profit. If it gave them profit, the Consortium would probably send themselves back to the stone age.

I don’t reall any mention of a “series issue” for Kasmeer, but then again I was out of town for most of the content. But the only problem Kasmeer talked about or hinted at that I heard of… was Faren.

VitalSuit.1980:

Uh Konig, by “20th day” it means August 20th as in the day of the patch lol.
So on the 20th Scarlet (or whoever) will put her plan in motion and hope that Kryta is burned to the ground.

Yes, I am very well aware of that. My point is this:

This poem is – supposedly – written in-universe, meaning by Scarlet herself most likely. There is no 20th day for this to be on in lore, but Anet is so intent on keeping their LS-RL sync going – to the point where they blatantly retcon the calendar. However, it doesn’t match up and the 20th day mention becomes inconsistent with the lore.

Now, if this is not written in-universe, then it works. But it seems to be written in-universe.

Jennah fears the Ministry (members that are opposed to her at least) would use her and Logan’s relationship as a means to undermine her ability to rule. Said in the human lvl 28 personal story (regardless of order, you just have to talk to Jennah to find this out).

Where is this poem from?

Your world is built on fog and sand

Wonder if this is meant to be taken literally. Since this sounds like a terrorist threat basically, I doubt it. But “fog” = The Mists and “sand” = soil? World is built upon the Mists mixing with ground? I doubt that they’d put such a thing in but shrug.

On the twentieth day she’ll start her games

Ah, yet another example of ArenaNet screwing over old lore if this comes from an in-universe viewpoint. Even with the +5 days to the Mouvelian calendar Angel blatantly retconned in with no regards, the calendar still starts at the beginning of Spring (aka mid-May) and holds no months. Lets say that in comparison, Wintersday (aka new years for Tyria aka Spring Equinox) is always on our equivalent of March 20th, the Mouvelian calendar only has 90 day seasons (which is now screwy with no explanation for how the seasons divide thanks to the +5 days) so their Summer solstice would be our June 18th; 20 days into that being June 28, their Fall equinox would be our October 6th.

GGAnet, twentieth day of what. Certainly nothing on the calendar even after blatant retcons that you once despised doing to the point of Jeff Grubb explicitly telling us how something wasn’t a retcon on the forums (via Stephane Lo Presti mind you).

lordkrall.7241:

I find the “It’s almost time for time to stop” line to be quite interesting.

Would that point towards Aeatherblades actually being tied into time-travelling or time-magic in some way or form?

It feels more like saying “party time is almost over” than “we come from the future, to stop time” or anything.

It’s just a fancy way of saying “It’s almost time to stop,” basically, for the sake of rhythm.

Scarlet seems to me, from this, to be someone who hates seeing others enjoying themselves (screwing things up at Dragonbash and now here, perhaps having something to do with Canach getting those pollens which ruined the times of the vacationers in Southsun). But at the same time, someone who wants to have fun herself – in a sadistic way.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

However, since logically the light of a star takes a very long time to travel, I doubt whether we would instantly see a new star the moment an Elder Dragon dies. Surely it would take decades until you would see the light of the star?

If this were reality, yes.

However, we have 0 evidence to claim that is so for Tyria, and even in Nightfall we had stars foretelling the future and even the current state of events in both Tyria and the Mists. For all we know, there is no “outer space” of Tyria – just the Mists existing out there. In which a star’s light can instantenously reach us because they may not be giant gas balls on fire.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Do we know for a fact that the stars reflect the rise of dragons? Or is this just the opinion of an npc?

It’s the results of research done by ancient long-dead jotun (the only race implied to have survived multiple dragonrisings.

Fun fact: Within the upper levels of the Pavilion (not inside the instance but the area of DR, you can go into those 2 loops – those’re the upper levels of the Pavilion), you can find a series of closed doors on the lower of the two. Most are flat sheets of meta, some are double-doors and you can see through the cracks to see some kind of room behind…

What’s behind these doors and why have them closed?

We get DR content for a month. Folks complain it’s human-centric.

We get Hoelbrak and Black Citadel content for four months, no complaining it’s norn/charr centric.

This makes sense.

Seras.5702:

Winds.3087:

Majority of players are humans.
Deal with it.

Actually, I think we’re all humans. Unless you’re letting your dog play.

Yet nobody expects…

Calling me out actually made me tempted not to respond…

If Ascalonian nobility functions similarly to our own European nobility of the past (and a good deal of Ascalonian culture is seemingly based off of Medieval Europe), then military status or establishing what is effectively a fort with civilians at the time does nothing for one’s nobility without being elevated by a king or regent (or perhaps other very high ranking noble). Given how Wade’s the duke of Ebonhawke, it stands to reason that among those sent south was a noble who – fairly or not – probably took control of Ebonhawke politically, preventing the Thackeray’s from becoming nobles.

And even if they did become nobles, do keep in mind that Logan basically abandoned his family and its history sometime before Edge of Destiny for still unclear reasons (though a reason is known, I doubt sibling rivalry was the full situation). While Dylan, Logan’s brother, retained high status (though interestingly in Kryta) and seemingly not just because he was a Seraph captain, Logan was a low-living mercenary. So it may be that the Thackeray’s did have some sort of noble status, but Logan threw it away and never reclaimed it (he’s a Seraph captain due to his prowess in battle and exploits with Destiny’s Edge, not his lineage).

Though this is mostly speculative since we’re not really told anything.

Thing is, we’re not given any indication to what the “organic core” is, where it came from, whom it came from, etc. etc.

For all we know, the organic cores could be the brains of skritt, cloned in an underground asuran facility, and nothing else. Or even fleshy tissue taken from the landscape of the Realm of Torment or other fleshy locations in the Mists.

Now, in the cases you presented, most of them are taking the original body and just altering it a bit – bloating a corpse (Afflicted), turning flesh into aetheric-like material (Margonites), or so forth. Druids turned from humans to treants, probably the most drastic difference. Shiro’ken actually could be drastic differences by being powered by (mostly/presumably mostly) human souls and having bodies shaped like phoenixes, dragons, kirins, etc.

But if the organic core is merely a brain and/or heart? Then what it becomes could be anything, really. Even if there isn’t previous precedence for such (then again, there’s no previous precedence for full out body replacement with machines while still retaining some organics).

Kal Spiro.9745:

All of the above. It’s a nomination, not a personal declaration of superiority. That’s what you guys are presenting, and it sounds more like jealous whining than reasoned arguments.

I couldn’t give a skritt’s behind about personal superiority, WP’s popularity, or my own. Hell I would enjoy not being known as someone who knows a lot of lore. Because I have seen folks do the same to me that they do with WP that I’m complaining about – the difference is that when I see it, I take action. WP doesn’t. THAT is the whole point behind it.

WP does spread interest in lore, but when he makes mistakes he doesn’t clean his messes. And that spells irresponsibility and it is quite annoying when I have to constantly correct people who say “but this is how it is! It’s in this video -link to a WP video-” (and it’s happened far too much).

Cecht.4102:

As I said in my earlier post, I totally understand WPs role in bringing the GW lore to the masses. He does a great job at it, for those who do no follow the Lore forums here (or gw2guru). But as far as calling him the #1 lore source etc, I disagree with (impressions so many in this very thread give me). He does know what is going on with the lore discussions very well and I am sure enjoys reading all the stuff on the lore forums. But he by no means is the most eminent community lore source in here. And for that reason, I am doubtful he should receive recognition as a ‘lore’ source.

-snip- the lore community as a whole is amazing and deserves recognition. They have kept me entertained since GW1, Prophecies.

This. Thankfully, the lore community did get a good recognition in Nightfall via a handful of NPCs named after GWO lore forum dwellers. I was kind of hoping that there’d be such in the Durmand Priory too, preferably as a mention of the community rather than naming specifics.

D best.3547:

Not only did that video win him an instant subscription but I also went back to CoE to see all that he had explained.

The bold is what I wish everyone did. My problem is the people who don’t.

christiniae.7834:

I also would like to know why those 2 people want to discredit WP because he makes some theory or speculation videos. There isn’t anything wrong with that and he labels them correctly.

Except that he doesn’t always do so. I have seen quite a few videos of his where he presents fact then theory then fact then speculation. And he doesn’t really separate them except the occasional “I’ve heard a theory that…” It’s only in his “primarily speculative videos” where he distinguishes the two. And even then, he still doesn’t get his facts straight.

Yet folks think he is fully accurate and he doesn’t put in effort to correct that misconception or when he’s shown to be wrong. <- the problem.

KOPPER.1458:

I am sure you’ll just assume I am lazy and therefore dismiss me or anything I have to say. Which is ok. But is that the attitude you want to put forward to get more players interested in the lore? Because that is the feeling and attitude that you get on lore forums.

Why would I dismiss what you have to say? I may correct you if you got facts wrong, but I wouldn’t dismiss you unless you present a theory that is outright debunked by known lore – and how I would dismiss you would be by showing you that said known lore.

KOPPER.1458:

Would you say that you and Konig have reached a larger audience than WP? Because that is what it comes down to at the end of the day. At least for most people it does. Also I am not sure that anyone is saying he contribute more than either of you. Although both of you seem to have taken it that way.

The OP kind of does in the reddit post, saying that his contributions to the community are on par to Dulfy’s. And by saying he’s reached out to the larger community – that’s a contribution. So whether no one may say the word, that’s what’s being talked about – his contributions to the community in spreading lore and explaining the lore.

KOPPER.1458:

You realize that after you wrote “And not to sound conceted” that everything that followed was fairly conceted? That is like saying “I don’t mean offence” and then you say something offensive.

That’s because when folks say things like that, it’s because they don’t know how to not sound conceited. I feel any mention of self accomplishment is being conceited hence why I said it.

KOPPER.1458:

-snip- Like I said above it’s about how many you can reach not how much you know. How you inspire others to want to learn about the lore and be excited about it.

What you’re saying is exactly what I’ve been saying – how he contributes to the community. You’re just replacing his actions to number of people he influences.

KOPPER.1458:

Players love to speculate, is it a surprise that those video gain some traction then? I don’t think so. It’s not about being right when it comes to a mystery. The fun is in speculating. He has plenty of factual lore videos. I am sure there are some places where the info is skewed.

The problem is that people take his speculation as fact. I’ve said this dozens of times now. And furthermore, he doesn’t try to correct them.

I don’t mind he speculates. I don’t mind he takes others’ presented theories that they put in far more work into and gives no credit and sometimes not even indication of them not being his. That’s irrelevant. The first should be done, the second doesn’t matter.

It’s his audience’s view of his videos that’s the problem, and WP’s (lack of) reaction to such.

Kal Spiro.9745:

I’m sorry, but if you’re going to imply he’s directly misrepresenting something, you’re going to have to point out specifics. You’re apparently a Lore Guru, so it should be very simple.

Point me to a video and I could probably point out 5 things per vid – minor or major. I actually did give a specific, though: he proclaimed that the binary seen by the skill challenge in Zone Green of the Infinite Coil Reactor in Mount Maelstrom translates to “Pale Tree” as a fact – this is far from so, and merely means “end transmission statement” or some such. He then used this “fact” to present the whole “pale tree is a dragon champion/elder dragon” ‘theory’ which spread like wildfire across the lore side of the forums (more than just the lore forums) and took months to show people that the binary meant something WP did not mean.

Gmr Leon.1846:

I can’t speak for Konig, but I’ve actually collaborated with WoodenPotatoes in the past, trying to help him fact check for some of his videos (e.g. he would exchange parts of his script with me over PM and ask if they seemed right for a time, until I reduced my forum activity for RL stuff), and he definitely tries to be accurate where possible. However, I think it’s entirely valid to point out that he doesn’t necessarily contribute any more than either Konig or myself have contributed (either now or, in my case, in the past).

Yet neither Konig nor myself have (albeit I like to speculate the asura Gor is a NPC version of myself, due to my major theories on the Mists [Mists and Magic as well as Mists and World/Planetary Formation]) NPCs in GW2.

Edit: As a completely off-topic sidenote, man Guru’s changes botched my formatting…And removed my awful example images. It’s a mixed blessing, for you guys!

I actually did try to offer my help in making his videos more accurate after the fiasco that I said just above, and he – quite rudely IMO – declined, proclaiming that you were all the help he needed.

Also, you got an NPC in Nightfall so who cares if you get one in GW2. :P (yes, this is a joke)

Keenan.6724:

I agree with this and must say I strongly disagree with Konig Des Todes and Lonami. I think both individuals are confusing WoodenPotatoes role in the GW2 community as a ‘lore specialist’ when in fact his emphasis is community outreach.

I am not confusing this. I know he’s not a lore specialist – though he certainly doesn’t try to discourage the notion that he is, which his following do believe (for example, whenever folks call me a “lore guru” or whatever, I tend to tell them I’m not such – I only “know so much” because I check my sources and most often only remember where to check said sources).

On the flip side, as I have seen, WP makes no effort to correct himself when he’s shown wrong, and makes no effort to show he may be wrong or even that people hold him in too high of a regard. The fact that he makes mistakes isn’t close to what I’m talking about – though existent, they merely lead to the real problem and that is that his audience mistake him for a lore specialist – at least to a minor degree.

I mean no insult to WP, I just wish that people didn’t hold him as such an infallible source of information. It’s fine and dandy and great that he gets people interested in the lore. I just wish he got them interested in looking into the lore for themselves rather than relying on him. If I were in his position, I’d do the same. I’d tell people that the best way to enjoy the lore is to find these things for themselves and only create real intro into the lore subjects (which he claimed to me was his intention, yet he goes into full detail except anything that counters his theories – intentional or no on the last part).

Crafting is far from “purely magic driven” – except perhaps in higher rarity cases, it’s questionable if magic plays a role at all – the stats are merely mechanical, so it’d be sigil and rune creation that would be magical (presuming they function like signets).

Logan and Jennah are mutually in love but not in a relationship due to the potential ramifications of the Ministry using said relationship to undermine Jennah further.

Iirc thus is explained in the human lvl 28 storyline. Regardless of order choice.

azureai.9764:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

We certainly did not meet a female sylvari during the Lost Shores, at the very least. At least none that was of any amount of importance whatsoever.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Owain

We did meet a female sylvari during the latest Southsun Cove escapades, at least.

Meant Secret of Southsun – though she’s there she isn’t relevant except for an achievement. Either way, Owain’s fairly not mentally stable so I doubt she’s related to this… Though that would be interesting and come to think of it… Should compare the voices.

Humorously I was going to do this a few months back. Had already started it even. Then I got banned from GW2W.

Luckily, I got screenshots of the NPC lines (at least some) around the Great Collapse still from before they got removed from the game. Go go historical lines!

Anyways, I personally will look into helping out when/where I can though I got “my” own project to work on (hopefully it will debut soon) – one I’m working on with most of the [Lore] guild. And this project will most certainly be of benefit to my guild’s project!

I don’t think it’s ever said that the steam creature’s organic parts are from what creatures they mimic.

And side notion that came to me – it is a bit interesting how Steamriders use the shapes of GW1 wind riders, while GW2 wind riders are more like floating brains.

The last known rise of the Elder Dragons was 11,000 years ago. Though according to Seiran during Bad Blood, the dwarven civilization “lasted for more than two thousand years” (which would be an odd way of meaning 11,000 years old), and it still hasn’t been truly disproven that the Forgotten didn’t arrive in 1,768 BE (which would fit the time period of “over 2,000 years ago” but before 3,000 years ago (which one may presume if the ruins were 3,000+ years old she’d say “over 3,000 years old” rather than 2,000)). Which means that it is possible still that the last ED rise was somewhere around 2,000 BE – e.g., 3,000 years ago.

Though it should be noted that the time between this last cycle is likely shorter than previous cycles, thanks to the Bloodstone’s creation and it’s absorbing and releasing of magic.

My personal theory is that the Elder Dragons rose around the times of 10,000 BE (extinction of the Giganticus Lupicus – possible end of the Age of Giants), 6,000 BE, 2,000 BE (when Glint got freed and saved five races) and now – ergo, each awakening being roughly 4,000 years apart (regardless of how long their active periods are – I presume roughly 1,000 years). This last one being a thousand years shorter thanks to the acts of the Seers and gods’ actions with magic.

This would also explain how the jotun could have records of multiple Elder Dragon risings (even if only mythological records) which implies survival of multiple Elder Dragon risings, since having records of 22,000 years ago would seem highly unlikely when all civilization supposedly ends or resets – let alone 33,000 years ago.

Either way, I agree that more than a year may be needed to see noticeable results with just one Elder Dragon’s death. Even minor ones.

Gandarel.5091:

The “Keelhaul the fractalstealer [Kiel]” guild along with others will make a public demonstration on the Desolation server for the adding the Fall of Abaddon fractal at some point.

Places: LA marketplace and Divinity’s reach Crown Pavillion.

Req: Evon badges and enthusiasm, also a torch + a fiery dragon sword, if possible, as a symbol of light in the dark age of Kiel’s councillorship.

Date: 28th of August.

dark age of Kiel’s councillorship… Gandarel, I think you’re a weeee bit too into the whole roleplaying.

Also, a rally for Abaddon on my birthday? D’awww, you shouldn’t have!

Oh, and your “req” – what about those who deleted their support buttons because they’re 100% useless now?

(P.S., I was actually thinking of hosting something similar, but in front of Evon in the Black Lion HQ).

I’d show up, but I’d probably have more entertaining things to do than read a map chat full of QQ’ing.

Serophous.9085:

ok, what if anise did research on us then? That is, assuming Anise is with the pirates

She isn’t. Know how I know?

She’s Shining Blade. And she’s a childhood friend of Jennah. She wouldn’t put Jennah in harm’s way – ever.

Sitkaz.5463:

When Anise did this it really made me question her motives, especially given the charr/human peace atm. I wondered when she made him fight a charr at all, let alone Rytlock. Whaaat is she up to…?

I don’t see any ulterior motives to her actions. She was just toying with a friend of hers.

The charr Logan fought was a Renegade (model wise at least). And come on, the Watchknight turned into a quaggan. The fight with Logan was clearly merely a demonstration for entertainment, and not something to give motives.

Besides, charr know that they’re tough opponents and it’s pointblank obvious that they were a threat to humanity – and some factions still are.

Deadeye’s an Aetherblade fighting in the Gauntlet in order to spy for Scarlet – when he isn’t fighting, he’s tampering with the Watchknights, trying to hack into their systems.

The first mate and captain weren’t dead. Stitches or Adil weren’t seen previously though, but generically named pirates were. And they were recruiting to rebuild their crew.

It’s possible that Kralkatorrik was wounded in hibernation. I mean, the charr aren’t exactly environmentally friendly and they thought he was an odd mountain.

Of course, it’s never said where Caithe is in the Dragonbrand. She could be in the southern reaches at that point.

Thalador and I both presented theories akin to that idea – I think Thalador did say elementals and there was probably someone else who thought along the same lines. I’d view them closer to demons (imps eat magic too, albeit only elemental magic as far as we know, and grow as they consume more – an imp that’s 1,000 feet tall may end up looking rather dragon like), but I presented the theory that since Glint calls Kralkatorrik to be “more magical than physical” (Edge of Destiny during the fight) that the Elder Dragons may be coalesced magic taken sentient and physical form (their whole sentience may be formed solely out of the corruption of living beings in said theory).

The idea of new dragons forming upon the death of another does present something interesting. Remember Arah jotun path? At the end you see the formation of a new star and it’s said it signals the awakening of a dragon – odd that one would awaken after Zhaitan’s death even though 50-ish years haven’t passed since Kralkatorrik’s awakening. What if instead it signaled the birth of a new Elder Dragon? One to replace Zhaitan.

Right, forgot about them for a moment. Yes the crew of Ravenous has backstory. I don’t think the others do though.

Then again, I do recall another human nicknamed Deadeye… or was it just the risen in Arah?

As far as I know, none of the named enemies fought in either the arena or the gauntlet have actual histories. Which is a shame.

I would have preferred fighting Bonfaaz Burntfur rather than Spar(ti)cus.

John, you misunderstand. It’s not that he does speculation – it’s that he gets his facts wrong and gives people a false understanding of the lore. And the worse part is how people don’t look things up for themselves leaving them believing WP is accurate and his speculation mixed-into-truth is fact. I can no longer count how many times I’ve had to correct people in the lore forums because they went “no this is the case, not what you guys are saying, here’s a video proving it! -links WP video-” and it was, in fact, the video that was wrong.

He’s gotten better about splitting speculation from fact if his latest video is anything to go by, but he still has a long ways to go and he still has several errors in every video I’ve seen.

Getting someone else’s interpretation is fine and all, but he’s presenting “facts” that aren’t facts.

I’m sorry but no.

He doesn’t really present anything new. He takes theories and speculation that’s spreading through the community and simply represents it. He often gets his facts wrong and is less accurate than the official wikis by far in his presentation of “facts” – often mixing in theory with facts.

I get that he’s been helpful in spreading lore to the larger community but that’s all he does, and it’s not a big thing either in the long run. Few if any of “his” theories he presents are actually his, and worse yet is that the people who watch his videos so fervently mistakenly believe what he says as truthful without question or believe his theories hold no counter points. Because of him there was a huge long-termed speculation that the Pale Tree is an Elder Dragon/dragon champion – but there’s FAR more countering this than supporting. And in his recent thread he presented a theory without any counter points to it about Kiel being an Aetherblade and the Aetherblades being from the future (ergo, Kiel’s from the future) – except that we have short stories that outright prove him wrong from the get go.

If people who actually put time and effort to make original and solid theories get nothing in the game, then the same should go to WP. I see no reason why he should be given special treatment over others who’ve been in the community far longer with far more (properly given) credibility to their name.

As far as I see, all WP does is make those who don’t look into the lore on their own accord get a mistaken and skewed – partial at best – view of the game’s lore.

And not to sound conceted or anything, but I’ve been in the community longer (at least actively), have moderated multiple forums, been a long time and huge wiki editor, part of the Test Krewe, and far far more, gotten a reputation as “lore guru/god/etc.” (which I’m not too fond of the last but meh it happened), but I don’t have an NPC. Why should someone who merely acts as a spokesperson in video format (often the video not being entirely relevant at all) be given an NPC over others who’s done FAR more to the community and to ArenaNet itself?

(Side note: no, I’m not wanting an NPC – I’d be ecstatic if I get one, but I don’t want nor need one).

Humans have far far more than mere bows and swords. Even in GW1’s time they had siege weaponry. It’s just that they don’t have the advanced kind that charr do (tanks as opposed to siege weaponry). Some of humanity’s siege weaponry has also been magical in nature. And just look at the Watchknights there are now – something the charr don’t have anything close to.

The main difference between human tech and charr tech is that charr tech is industrialized and thus manufactured while human tech is still an artisan craft. So charr are able to make their tech faster, which allows them to see problems and ways to improve faster.

That certainly is a possibility, Tuormir. Though its movement was likely due to a survivor of Orr IMO, as it was placed inside a tomb. That, or the rumors of it being seen in Orr last before the Cataclysm wasn’t a “recent” sighting – since the quest chain with the Staff of the Mists mentions the two scepters being placed within the tombs of leaders that wielded them (and Majesty’s Rest is a burial place of Krytan monarchs – well, the main mausoleum is at least; the one where the Scepter was found is unclear).