Ley Lines is a very common fantasy concept. And that may even tie into the globe in the Chantry of Secrets (the shining blue lines and dots). The ley line bit is the least problematic of the interview.
The short story released before you posted debunks this theory of yours.
As Aaron says, the sylvari=dragon minions has, thus far, been debunked as well. Unless Angel McCoy goes to retcon lore again, it will remain debunked.
Aye. This is what was needed to save Scarlet as a character
It redeems some aspects of Scarlet, but does not save her, since it lessens some aspects of her.
But that kind of thing is needed in the game itself rather than some short story blog post. Braham’s, Rox’s, and Kiel’s pasts were all good as short stories, because those pasts weren’t important to the plot, unlike this one.
Scarlet still has potential. But for every “good” thing about her they show, they produce equally “bad” things. And she certainly isn’t redeemed yet.
PS – Something about dragons.
After killing Omadd (Umad?), she traveled west and burned down Malyck’s tree. Doing this awoke Mordremoth in a totally unobserved way at the same moment players looked through the jotun path Arah telescope to see the star form. Scarlet then brought out her Aetherized rifle that she somehow had despite the Aetherblades not yet existing and one-shotted Mordremoth in the eye, piercing to his brain. Then all the magic he had been absorbing began to leak out slowly, so Scarlet absorbed it and now she’s 8-feet tall.
Her lifelong goal is now to plant herself in the center of Tyria, to become the first ever Red Tree and bring forth a race of her children – the Twilvari (“Twisted Sylvari”).
Indeed, that’s the interview I was talking about.
Ah yes, I was mixing them with the Cautl due to the skin color, since those are the red ones in Metrica Province.
And I don’t think she saw much after that – not beyond the sylvari. When she woke up she mentioned realizing the point behind the Pale Tree and the Nightmare Court, of Caithe and Faolain… but only made mention of realizing things about the sylvari.
Gods I hope it won’t end up being that the sylvari are indeed minions of Mordremoth and the Pale Tree is somehow purified and now Scarlet is a Cadeyrn 2.0 in wanting to “fix” that. >.>
Gandarel, if you’re referring to the video chat interview Jeff and Ree did before release, what they said actually implies both Rotscale and Kuunavang are akin to Glint in the same manner that the Elder Dragons are to each other.
I’m rather disappointed.
The awakening scene paints a good picture for Ceara, aka Scarlet Briar (why the name change?), but the rest just diminishes her character a bit:
Her goal and her actions have no relation.
And this stuff should be shone in the game. I enjoy these short stories a bit, but come on now. This stuff should be shown to us in the freakin’ game. And it wouldn’t be all too hard either.
But I guess her being able to do everything and anything is little different from the PCs (which isn’t exactly a good thing either).
We know Kuunavang is NOT tied to any Elder Dragons.
That’s still subject to debate, actually.
In the Grove, the Order of Whispers is very open. Unusually so. It seems that the Order of Whispers holds a “mostly book open” approach to the sylvari. They probably trust the Pale Tree enough, given the Tree’s stated intentions and actions. It would be rather rude of the Whispers to exclude the sylvari because of something they cannot control.
And in fact, doing this means that there’s a good chance for future sylvari agents who don’t even need to be taught how to be an agent.
That’s not how it works. The only things that get fed back to the Dream and, by extension, the Tree, are moments that elicit a strong emotional reaction. Even then, what is received is a snapshot, a brief moment, and all but useless for intelligence purposes without a linked context.
Err… that’s not right at all. The strong emotional reactions are the strongest memories within the Dream, but all of it gets sent – though it’s a one-way connection, and the strongest reactions have the best chances of being accessed by future sylvari.
As Bruno says, they’re not explicit, but it’s more than just the strongest emotional reactions that get sent back. Hence why whenever your character uncovers a new area of the map, they can say “I’ll send this along to the Pale Tree.” A lot of the sylvari within and just outside the Grove confirm this as well as the Soundless in Caledon. All memories are sent back, but they’re not received clearly and the Pale Tree knows all of those memories (or at least a good majority of them, given Riannoc).
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
The Crystal Desert has the Tomb of the Primeval Kings in its northern portion, so basically that region did belong to Elona at some point.
There are also Ascalonian ruins in northern Desolation, and it’s implied those huge statues are of Ascalonian origins, but I wouldn’t call the Crystal Desert part of Ascalon. Nor would I even say it was once part of Elona – the location of a few tombs doesn’t denote being part of a political nation, especially if there are no outposts. All outposts we see in the Crystal Desert are Turai’s – part of the colony, Elonia.
Joko has total dominance over whole Elona, I guess he wanted to extend his reach to the crystal desert, but then came Kralky.
Zhaitan was what prevented Joko from expanding if Joko was continuously expanding. The Movement of the World explicitly states that the Orrian dragon’s (aka Zhaitan’s) minions are fighting Joko’s on Elona’s northern border.
Btw yes the Brand ends in the northern portion, but that doesn’t mean the minions can’t spread farther south. Risen are showing up in Kryta, Tarnished coast and other farway place from Orr.
I don’t get the comparison to the risen, given how everywhere we see Icebrood, Risen, and even Destroyer’s there’s some of that groups’ “element” there (risen in putrid areas, often swamps; icebrood with Jormag’s ice; destroyers with lava). I never said that the Branded couldn’t travel further south, I was instead denoting the huge space difference between the end of known Branded territory and known Joko territory.
It would make up for a cool story, imagine if majority of Elonians think of Palawa as a savior because he is telling them that Tyria fell to the dragons and he is the only person who can protect the south, encouraging the living to fight in the desert.
That can be done without Kralkatorrik – see the comment of Joko’s forces fighting Zhaitan’s minions.
I would hardly call that video where WP missed a piece of lore on Thaumanova from an NPC just outside Thaumanova, and ends it with a stream of wild speculation, as “excellent.”
For taking the time of providing many of the sources I was thinking of after I saw how little sense that interview was, and proving that I’m just too kitten ed lazy to, I present Thalador with this gif:
(P.S., I fully agree with everything I bothered to read of his posts; I suggest Angel do a recap on the game’s lore, otherwise I may have to hop on Obsidian’s bandwagon after vandalizing it to be “separate lore continuities between Guild Wars 2 and Living Story”)
Should that be the case, yes.
But is that the case? There’s nothing to truly indicate such. So proclaiming that the Infinity Ball proves that it is the case, is falsification.
That’s more or less has been my belief – or that Dhuum in his sadistic nature, accidentally discovered the means of making a titan.
Unknown Parents human storyline has some of your answers.
A brief summary: The White Mantle fled into the Maguuma Jungle at the end of the Krytan civil war and went into hiding. In GW2’s time they themselves are considered a thing of myth/history, but still exist. They do their work now through espionage and the like.
They are now backing the bandits and to some degree acting as their leaders. Though generally believed to be separate groups, the bandits are in fact united and the mooks, at the very least, are being led to believe that Jennah is a tyrant who’s leading the people of Kryta into a collapse. Some of them are not bad, and you can even talk them out of being a bandit in certain spots (or see them leave banditry themselves).
It is my theory – and a relatively common one with possible alterations here and there – that the White Mantle act as the bandit’s leaders, and have infiltrated the Ministry as well with Caudecus as a figure head. Fort Vandal, which is pretty close to where we saw the White Mantle fled to in Hearts of the North, seems to be the bandits’ main base of operations. Some of the street gangs of Divinity’s Reach also seem to hold ties to the White Mantle as well – via using the same hideouts as the bandits. In every zone except possibly Kessex, there are bandit hideouts with that White Mantle-esque emblem.
To me, the wording does not sound like an illustrative metaphor or whathaveyou.
This time, though, there was nothing to strike. The Elder Dragon’s flesh had melted into a sandstorm. She tore at it with claws and fangs, but Kralkatorrik was as insubstantial as a dream.
The dream turned on her. In midair, the Elder Dragon rolled to its back, talons reaching up. Glint tried to loft away, but those claws solidified and grasped her. […]_
There is allusion and illustration used there – the reference to a dream – but the “melting into a sandstorm” and “solidified” bits don’t seem such at all.
It honestly doesn’t seem like Kralkatorrik even registered the yoke’s presence or at least importance, reading through the battle with him in the novel. Though I’d be willing to slap it up to yet another plothole of Edge of Destiny.
the complaints about her not having motivations are void.
In my case, I’m saying that she doesn’t show to have any motivations or goals. She very well may have them, but as long as they’re fully in the dark, all we see as the audience is a child-like persona who apparently knows all there is to know and wants to cause anarchy. And that alone doesn’t make a good villain.
Hence why I said that she still has room to improve.
Thing is, first impressions matter. And Anet’s trying to string Scarlet’s story out in the “Living World” (more like “Scarlet’s World” IMO – everything is focused around her or the aftermaths of her actions ever since Wintersday passed; that is not a living story at all, and eventually new players will be at a lost at the whole Scarlet plot). Eventually, we’ll tire of this figure unless they show us her motivations and goals relatively soon, even if not this time around.
@Narcemus:
The Pale Tree actually is said to know what all other sylvari tied to her dream know. Now, whether or not this is true… that’s up to debate still. And while not all sylvari know everything the Dream has, they do have a chance at learning anything a sylvari still tied to the Dream learns. So one would think that with all this knowledge Scarlet has, some of the newer sylvari would know some of it, at least.
But my point to this is that they give no hint or indication to give that other sylvari shouldn’t know these things. Other than the fact the players never heard of her, apparently Scarlet’s this big-shot in multiple communities. Yet nonetheless, she appears out of no where, with no background to her other than she was the one who united the Molten Alliance and Aetherblade/Inquest.
Personally, my problem isn’t the lack of information – in fact, I’m using that as hope for improvement. My problem is just how her personality and portrayal currently is. It’s not all that enjoyable. More annoying than anything.
Half of Southsun seems to be newly formed via volcanic activity (most of the western half). The eastern half is more iffy – Pearl Inlet seems to hold ruins, implying it was above water before Orr rose (or even sank possibly), but the main eastern island could be newer.
How long Southsun existed isn’t really known, but the Sea of Sorrows was still traversed after Zhaitan’s rise. Just over time it was traversed less and less.
i just did the playhouse again with my sylvari, i was nect to her in the final battle,
she is hugei know my sylvari is tiny, but she is norn size, im not sure on the max length of a sylvari, but to me she looks a bit too large.
are we really sure she is a sylvari? becauase her length plus her hair = her name doesnt all look sylvari to me, but she could just be the exeption to the sylvari.
Legendaries, and even champions, are larger than their standard equivilants. It’s a mechanics thing.
Though oddly enough, the Shamans and Captains in the invasion events are even larger than other captains.
Yes, as we learned during The Lost Shores. Canach disturbed them while he and his team were cataloging the island that was recently discovered. He was given orders not to mess with the animals and found the loophole that it didn’t include the plantlife – so he started experimenting on the Passion Flowers (I think it was those), which riled up the karka. The survivors of the team sans Owain fled to Lion’s Arch and then to Garrenhoff and Caledon – hence why the karka attacked those three locations.
As Scarlet is currently being shown off, I think that she’s poorly written. Her entire personal seems to be based off of a joker-complex where she’s trying to cause as much chaos as possible, but without an actual goal to it. Her personality’s one-dimensional so far, with no redeeming value and worse of all, no motivation to back her actions.
It’s like she’s just there for the sake of being there, and her actions are done just for the hell of it. And on top of this, she’s some sort of super-genius in a race that shares knowledge with each other… yet no one else knows the things she does?
Where’s her motivation? What’s her goal (please let it be more than just ‘causing mayhem’)? What made her decide to go the route of villainy? Without answering these questions properly, you just get a dull “kill her and be done” villain – and how Scarlet’s set up is that she’ll be around for a long time… which will just kill GW2 into becoming an achievement grindfest.
Honestly, as flat as Kiel is, she is far more interesting than Scarlet.
From what we’ve seen, I rate Scarlet a 3/10. And I give her that 3 because she still has room for improvement, with some implied interesting facts behind her:
I just see nothing original in Scarlet or her actions. There’s nothing interesting behind her. The only interesting part in her and her actions is the design of the Twisted minions.
What I don’t get is:
- why did the mad king had just awaken now.
- the crazy inquest/aetherblade/molten alliance activity.
- why did the karka got expelled so soon after Zhaitan’s defeat.
I can’t answer question one.
Question two is “Scarlet” – we still don’t know the full situation about her, but all of that is tied to her so it’s just one threat really.
On question three: Southsun Cove actually existed for a while without anyone knowing about its existence (hard to imagine but true). How old it is, is unknown. Similarly, the karka could have been on that island for much longer than The Lost Shores – e.g., before Zhaitan was defeated, they could have been there. And in fact, it’s implied they were.
Arenanet realized that dragons make up for crappy bossfights and players don’t like them, because they don’t have personalities, so the try to save the situation with the LS.
And, IMO, they aren’t doing a good job.
Dragons are more interesting than Scarlet thus far. >.>
Honestly speaking, it’s less of a “living story” and more of a “Scarlet’s story.” A true living story… wouldn’t be focusing on Scarlet all the time. And given how now the Molten Alliance is tied to her, it rather is.
The Tengu were just xenophobic, they didn’t raid human lands. They just didn’t allow humans into their lands. Peace was achieved with the Tengu in Cantha.
They’re a bit xenophobic in GW2, but I wouldn’t say they are in GW1. Quetzal were indeed territorial and the Avicara are questionable, but in Kryta you can see tengu raiding merchants in Divinity Coast mission.
We had the harpy and heket situation in Elona, not tied to Abaddon.
Again, not actively attacking, just defending their lands.
Uh… they were invading from Dzalana.
Harpies were at least. That’s the whole purpose of the Dzagonur Bastion fortress – to keep the harpies from invading (which is why the party at Tihmark Wilderness mission ends so abruptly – harpies that far west is so uncommon because they’re invading).
We had the charr revolution going on.
And this was a bad thing… how?
I was listing conflicts in the world, not “bad guys.” Though if you must insist – I listed this because that is the precursor to the Flame Legion’s actions in GW2.
The charr attacked ascalon just as the centaurs or ogres did for centuries. They only became a real threat when they got their “gods” that (surprise surprise!) where Abaddon’s minions.
They were actually a constant threat, they were just holding back while they gained strength.
Her people were viewed as grim by their neighbors. This was perhaps, to be expected, given their never-ending war against the aggressive Charr. – Prophecies manual, Ascalon entry.
Mursaat activity was meant to prevent the invasion of Abaddon’s minions. The Mursaat were arround for millennia, they only killed a few to power the door of komalie. They weren’t a threat at all. We were played by an Abaddon’s minion into exterminating them.
Yes, because acting out of self-survival is “to prevent the invasion of Abaddon’s minions” and killing thousands in only a couple of years is really “only killed a few.”
Face it, they were a threat. Unless you consider Glint to be a minion of Abaddon (fact: she isn’t; she was also going against the titans). Prophecies is basically a four-way battle. You have the charr (force #1), who were used by Abaddon (force #2), in conflict with the mursaat (force #3), and also in conflict with Glint (force #4). And we and the dwarven civil war was in the middle of it all.
The mursaat were not good guys – their past records show that they don’t give a skritt’s kitten about other races. If their lives weren’t in danger, do you really think that they would just be chilling out? This race of powerful spellcasters who nearly annihilated an entire race before retreating into the Mists to save their own hides?
Come on now.
We had Joko’s remnants, not tied to Abaddon.
The liberation of Joko had everything to do with Abaddon. His birth as an undead king didn’t though.
The existence of the remnants of Joko’s army were unrelated to Abaddon. I’m not talking about his liberation – where he acted as a good guy and an ally, even if temporarily. I’m talking about the rebellious undead that were hostile to us in the Desolation.
If you leave Abaddon’s nightfall out of the equation in GW1, you’ve got the Stone Summit, the Ahm Fah, the Jade Broderhood and some indigenous races defending their own lands. And that’s it.
Caromi raiders and mursaat, centaurs in the background still and without the undead threat they would likely be in the foreground. You’d still have the charr and harpies invading as well.
It’s not to be surprised that a year after nightfall the first dragon was trying to awake.
Three years.
I concur that she’s an engineer. Which makes me glad – I fought enough purple butterflies in Orr, tyvm.
The Joker doesn’t do it because it’s fun, that’s a biproduct. He does it because he wants to prove no matter how moral, how upstanding someone is, they can sink, fall, and become the most reprehensible scum in Gotham. That’s why he doesn’t, or rather, can’t kill the batman. On the same side, Batman can’t kill him because he has to prove that no matter how dark someone may be, they can still be saved. It’s a product of duality~
And that’s why Scarlet fails. She’s all the mayhem, but none of the goal.
She’s a copy of Harley Quinn, but without affection for someone she’s trying to impress (Joker does kitten cuz it’s fun and to mess with Batman’s mind; Harley Quinn does kitten cuz it’s fun and to impress the Joker).
Maybe “Scarlet” is her title/rank? Scarlet is a common dye. Maybe the next character will be a Ruby, Wrath or Cinnamon. Mmmm… Cinnabons. Or, most likely, I am talking crap.
Or maybe she isn’t actually a Sylvari in the first place?
Someone pretending to be a sylvari? Would explain the horrendous hairstyle.
Scarlet is treated like her name, while Briar is hardly mentioned. If either is some sort of title, then it’d likely be Briar.
It was in a interview, the branded are fighting Joko’s legion.
Can you link said interview? I’ve done my best to follow every one but don’t recall such a thing.
Because it seems very weird that the two forces would be clashing, given how the Dragonbrand ends in northern Crystal Desert and Joko’s forces are in the southern border of the Crystal Desert. Unless Kralaktorrik went and made unnoticed movements, there’s a good distance between them.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
@Aaron: The scaling between the games is different and what most folks who do overlays do is to use the scaling of GW1 and placing that over GW2’s map. Shaman did that quite a bit for some things – see Queensdale in the linked map.
Because scaling changed between the two games, as well as zone borders, Anet took some “artistic liberties” in altering distances – so in comparison, things are just in the same “approximated location” and same “approximated direction.” This is to be expected, naturally, since to make the map a complete copy+alteration from the centuries would result in dozens of valleys throughout the game, many of which making little sense. Instead of such, we get boxed mountain ranges (though in a way we had that in GW1, they just weren’t always exact boxes and included 5-foot high cliffs so it wasn’t so easy to tell).
During the first Gamescom demo back in 2009, I believe it was stated that Steeleye Span was built over where Fort Ranik was.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
Fool! Logan’s legend dates all the way back to the twelth century, you know.
Logan is voiced by Troy Baker
TROY BAKER
He’ll break you down and rebuild you twice as good!
HE"S GONNA RENOVATE YOUR *!(Also – Joel from Last of Us, Booker from Bioshock Infinite, Male Voice 1 in Saints Row 3 and 4, etc etc etc)
Troy Baker also voiced Excalibur from Soul Eater.
Your argument fails.
It was stated in an interview during “sylvari week” way back when, that like normal sylvari, the Nightmare Court are still wanting to kill all the Elder Dragons.
BTW, Kralkatorrik turned into a sandstorm, he didn’t become t ransparent or anything. He has more in common with elementalists than mesmers (fun fact: in the latest GuildMag interview, the devs, think it was Jeff, lists in a sidecomment what the Elder Dragons are “attuned” to – fire, vegetation, undeath, elements, water, ice" – so IMO, Kralkatorrik isn’t so much “crystal” as he is “elements” which fits him well, having used fire, lightning, and earth magic-related abilities himself, as well as for his minions).
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/what-is-this-I-found/first#content
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/Weird-Gate-like-object/first#content
This forum needs a better search topic. That was what I got from a google search of “guildwars2 forum strange gate”
@Scynte: By “tied to” I really meant “working for.” The mursaat would likely have been a threat – if not a more open one – irregardless of the Flameseeker Prophecies. And they honestly were a threat thanks to Glint making the prophecies, rather than Abaddon’s actions.
@Kirschwasser: I did say that the Orrian undead were tied to Abaddon.
And while it’s heavily implied Shiro influenced the leader of the Am Fah, they were more of taking advantage of the Affliction, rather than being in cahoots with Shiro. Furthermore, they were a threat to Cantha far before Shiro (even when Shiro was alive the first time), and would have been one irregardless of Shiro. As such, I don’t consider them tied to Abaddon. They were just a tool Shiro ended up taking advantage of to increase the amount of chaos and Afflicted.
That last line was added by an IP as seen here – which as far as I’ve seen, is utterly unmentioned. Unless it’s part of the Playhouse, that’s an IP who made kitten up and is full out proof for why the wiki is ever failing at lore. Random joe smoes go and put in whatever BS they want to put in.
That person would be correct in stating that the wiki is not a valid source of information, especially lore information. The quality of the wiki in terms of accurate lore info – and complete lore info – has severely diminished.
But as BuddhaKeks said – she’s not former Aetherblade, she just stole an airship from them.
If you really think about it, a lot of stuff was happening even before Zhaitan’s defeat.
You had the Flame Legion attacking Ascalon.
You had the centaurs on humanity’s doorstep; and bandits funded by the Minister.
You had the Inquest messing things up in Asura territory.
You had Sons of Svanir and Jormag partying about in the northern Shiverpeaks.
You had the Dragonbrand going on.
You had ogres invading west.
You had some jotun trying to make a name for himself.
You had the Nightmare Court’s many attempts at turning others.
You had the dredge’s ever xenophobia acting about.
You had Primordus partying it out in the basement with his smoke seeping through the ceiling.
You had krait messing up Tyria’s bathtub.
Let’s not forget the DSD’s influence here and there (which is why the krait are messing up Tyria’s bathtub).
And then you had Zhaitan.
And in all of these: the Inquest, Flame Legion, and Dredge all lost their leadership; the Nightmare Court and Bandit’s leadership got hindered but not taken out; Zhaitan was taken out; Sons of Svanir and ogres had a few skirmishes here and there; the rest basically went untouched.
After Zhaitan’s death you have…
The DSD forcing another deep sea group out.
The three large factions who lost their leadership listening to Scarlet.
Moar pirates.
I don’t think that you have “all these events” happening just because Zhaitan died. Hell, there’s hints in an interview where Scott or Angel said that the Molten Alliance was being formed for some time, overlooked because everyone was focused on the dragons.
Honestly, all we’ve really done is made one old threat slightly more prominent (DSD), and three old threats combined (Dredge, Flame Legion, Inquest) under a unified leader (Scarlet).
Now, about your argument that “everything in GW1 was all part of Abaddon’s plan” – well let’s take a look:
We had the charr attacking Ascalon – though the timing was influenced by Abaddon, as well as the Searing, this is something that’s been going on for centuries.
We had the centaurs warring with humans in the background (another thing going on for centuries).
Tengu were bandits; and let’s not forget we had actual bandits.
We had the Stone Summit which were not tied to Abaddon.
We had the Orrian undead which were tied to Abaddon.
We had the Mursaat which were not tied to Abaddon.
We had the Naga who were indirectly influenced by Abaddon. Wardens too.
We had the Am Fah and the Jade Brotherhood and Crimson Skull, none of which tied to Abaddon.
We had the Afflicted and Shiro, tied to Abaddon.
We had the harpy and heket situation in Elona, not tied to Abaddon.
We had Varesh and Margonites, tied to Abaddon.
We had Joko’s remnants, not tied to Abaddon.
We had the charr revolution going on.
And we had the Destroyers, not tied to Abaddon.
To say “everything in GW1 was related to Abaddon” is very much false. Just the main plots were, and even then not all of it.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
That all depends on when the last dragon rise was – and what is being referred to with “Tyria” there – continent or world?
The connection is tenuous at best, no better than my “Dream of Dreams is part of the Mists” theory that you argued so well against.
what are her motivations ?
Unknown as of yet. She’s just causing mayhem “from Divinity’s Reach to Ebonhawke” (quite literally – invasion events don’t happen in lvl 1-25 zones).
Kind of makes an interesting thought on what her motivations might be.
There is, frankly, alot we dont know about her. We cant even be sure she is from the Pale Tree.
She does, however, mimic the Pale Tree sylvari’s line – “By the Pale Tree, what I have done? So horrific- pffahahaha, sorry I just couldn’t keep a straight face.” or something along those lines. This signifies she likely is from the Pale Tree.
There’s alot we dont know about her but her intellect explains how she has formed the Molten Alliance, the Aetherblades and how she is controlling the Steam Creatures.
Her dialogue implies to me that she did not form the Aetherblades, but threatened them into working for her. Whenever the Aetherblade wave comes, she says “they work for me, you know, because they want to live.”
She probably isn’t only 26 years old. Everything about this event points to her (and the aetherblades and her technologies) coming from the future. Or a different reality.
The oldest sylvari at this point is 24 – though they love to round to 25, the Firstborn were born in 1302 AE, not 1300 AE, which now puts them at 24 in 1326.
But if she was a Firstborn, I think there’d be making mentions of her by Caithe or something by now. Unless that’s for the next update with Scarlet. She is at best Secondborn, IMO. We already got 2 other evil Secondborns anyways.
- The point? It could have been under Abaddon’s guidance that The Fury performed the rituals. Afterall, there are no traces of Titans in Underworld.
- It still is close to the environment, but not made from the environment.
- “Titans, ancient creatures dating back nearly as far as my own kind…” -Forgotten Warden
“I wish to see this to its end. Over the eons, much has changed in Tyria. But not these Titans.” -Ancient Seer
The forgotten were present in the dragon rise after which the gods settled to Arah. Unless the gods were very good at hiding from the dragons, the Titans were on Tyria before them.- I wrote that, yes, but would you have preferred “made what would later be known as the Foundry of Failed Creations”?
Something made Titans before the gods arrived in Tyria, and later this method was used to create an army for Abaddon. The Titans had access to magic with strong connections to the elder dragons, specifically Kralkatorrik.
Nothing tells us that “something made the Titans before the gods arrived in Tyria,” – as said, the Forgotten’s origins still lie in the Mists to all of our knowledge. And so do the Six Gods’ – we cannot say which is older between the two groups (Gods or Titans/Forgotten), we can only say which arrived on the world of Tyria first – the Six Gods or Forgotten (though even that is subject to debate). The seers could have easily first saw the titans well after the Elder Dragons went to sleep and the Six Gods arrived on the world.
Just because the Titans had access to the Cauldron of Cataclysm, does not mean that they had access to Kralkatorrik’s magic. After all, it is 1) not proven (even though I think it is) that it was powered by Kralkatorrik’s magic; and 2) not proven that it was powered by said magic when the Titans gave it to the charr.
You are missing my point. The Jade Armors give us a very clear image of how the Mursaat construct things, and what they look like when they do.
While I find Thalador’s theory interesting, I’m not sure I concur with it. However, on this point you’re wrong Malafide.
Between Thalador’s theorized creation of the titans and the point in time we see the mursaat using the Jade constructs, between 3,000 or 11,000 years have passed. Techniques, aesthetics, philosophies all change for many cultures in these points in time. Though we know that the mursaat’s morals of “all mursaat before anything else” hasn’t really changed, that doesn’t mean other things haven’t either.
And in regards to aesthetics…
Both jade armors (which you must admit look a little too much like Abaddon) and titans have multiple rows of eyes, are supposedly (in the case of jade armor) made from spirits, and other material. The jade constructs are likely made from a similar – if not same – material as the bloodstone given the similar appearance to the stones in the RoF fortresses to the bloodstone.
We know who built the Titans, and we know what he build them from. And we know what the Mursaat built, and what they build their armies from.
More corrections:
We know the Fury was making titans during the time of Nightfall, but we do not know the Titans’ origins (their original origins). Similarly, we do NOT know what the mursaat built their stuff out of.
That is perhaps because Dhuum was still around. If you’re not locked away, you don’t need to build an army of demonic creatures to escape. It wasn’t until Dhuum was locked away, that his Lords of Anguish were imprisoned. The Fury had to break free first, before he could take over the Foundry of Failed Creations, and start building Abaddon an army. That is why you don’t see Titans any earlier.
Your argument fails to explain how the titans are as old as the Forgotten, which definitely predate Dhuum’s imprisonment, let alone old enough for the seer to say it saw the titans eons ago.
Then your whole argument falls. If they were created after Dhuum’d been locked away, there would’ve been no reason for them to be on Tyria at that point,
You shouldn’t be making the assumption that the titans were there before Dhuum was locked away.
The point that you’re still missing is the evidence. The titans have to be older than the arrival of the human gods, which would imply their origins are not directly related to Dhuum and the Fury.
No they don’t.
…
You really should read the entirety of the thread, Malafide.
No, I’m saying first Dhuum was defeated and replaced by Grenth. Then much later, The Fury breaks free, and starts creating Titans in the Foundry of Failed Creations as part of a bigger plan to assist Abaddon’s revolt.
But we know for a fact they’re much much older than that.
He could also be saying: Tyria has changed a lot. The Titans have not changed a lot. That doesn’t mean the Titans were walking around on Tyria. It just means they have not changed much over the years, unlike Tyria itself.
That makes no conceptual sense in wording. That’s like me saying “much has changed in my house. But the sun, the sun has never changed.” You’re just jumping from point A to point Z, there’s no connection between the two sentences’ meanings if what you say is the case.
I’d say they mostly resemble Abaddon.
So do the jade constructs. Moreso, even.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
I would guess that the druids’ magic and this nature-elder dragon are very similar and can affect each other in some ways.
How would you explain the sylvari elite skill that summons a druid-spirit?
By that argument, necromancy and Zhaitan’s magic should be capable of affecting each other in some ways.
And impossible to really say, since we have absolutely no context for the skill and no other connection besides both being located in the Maguuma Jungle. Honestly, it could be remnants of a scrapped lore plot; or it could be that they wanted to make a treant-summoning skill but felt a physical treant seemed too OP so they went with a spectral one and that turned into druids who appear as spectral treants.
Er… you’re quite wrong there. The place where the Pale Tree began her growth might not have been inside druid sphere of influence, but the cave where she and other seeds were hidden is more than likely to have been in a western part of the Maguuma – which was definitely druid territory.
As to your other questions: access to Forgotten magic, perhaps.
And where do you get that it was in the western part of the Maguuma (which, btw, would be off the map)? We don’t know where Ronan was when he found the seed. So we cannot properly say if he was within or outside druid territory. However, being guarded by fierce creatures… doesn’t sound very druid-like.
And how would the druids get access to Forgotten magic? The Forgotten haven’t been near there for nearly a millennium before the druids disappeared.
The Soundless separate themselves from the dream, partially by living away from it. Although theirs is a willing separation, Malyck could have disconnected from the dream of his tree before his awakening, as he drifted away from it in his pod.
Location actually has nothing to do with their ties to the Dream. They distance themselves from the city because of the city noise there is. Becoming Soundless takes constant meditation and definitely intentional separation from the Dream – and distancing from those who are part of the dream is merely an aid to that.
But, I’m fairly sure dead sylvari don’t contribute to the Dream (the Pale Tree didn’t know about what happened to Riannoc, for example). That would suggest that the link between the sylvari and the dream breaks on death.
That is an oddity in of itself – even if there’s a link severing upon death, there should still be knowledge of the moment of death in the Dream, let alone the moments before said moment of death.
Besides, not having a spirit leave the body would suggest that they don’t have a connection to the mists, as other beings travel through the mists after their death, whereas sylvari may not even have a spirit or soul, and their whole essence is in their body. They could even be just extensions of the Tree, like cells in our body. That in itself could be enough to prevent them from being corrupted, not this proposed connection to the mists.
Unless it was their bodies rather than spirit that was tied to the Mists. However, spirits in of themselves aren’t tied to the Mists – that’s just where they go when finding rest.
I know there are other possibilities, but that doesn’t counteract the one I proposed in of itself.
We do know of Orrians outside of Orr. The Orrian military – and perhaps some travelers – were not in Orr at the time, and we meet one Priory member who is of Orrian descent in Malchor’s Leap even (SE corner of the map iirc, near the farmland).
Why don’t see we more? We had that answer since 2007:
The few humans who claim Orrian descent never proclaim their heritage publicly; being connected to those dark lands is dangerous in these times.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Movement_of_the_World#Orr
So I would hardly call it “lazy writing” when it was a notion brought up before the game was in serious development. As to not seeing Orrians now, I don’t think the storyline has given enough focus to it.
Though with them writing Cantha district out despite the fact it’s mentioned in-game even… THAT is lazy writing there.
Yes, Malafide, that is exactly what I meant.
When the Grand High Sovereign left his world, we knew it existed as he was leaving. But because he left and influenced the past, does that future still exist as an alternate reality?
It really depends upon which theory of the timeline that the GW universe holds to – the singular timeline, or the splitting timeline.
If it’s the singular timeline, then by going back in time you change the future and the “old future” ceases to exist. If it’s the splitting timeline then it’ll continue to exist.
Only in the case of the splitting timeline can we properly say it’s an alternate reality – and only when we get to the parallel point in time while both timelines exist simultaneously.
@Narcemus: That sounds like the single timeline from what I understand – eventually those possible futures no longer exist, and only the actual future – which is effectively a one in a billion chance of being made – exists once it becomes the present. All other paths the timeline could have taken are thus merely abstract theories and thoughts. No physical essence to them, even with the Mists’ help.
Actually, no.
We were told that we’d instantly recognize the personal nemesis. Meaning that it could be someone we all knew… or it would be someone who’s just that unique.
Scarlet is pretty unique… in her ugly pigtails.
@Amadan: That’s what we’re told, yes. But people are arguing that what we’re told was a lie or a red herring.
@Plunder: Thing is, the Pale Tree isn’t in the sphere of influence of the druids – druids didn’t go that far south, as far as we have seen, even though it’s still within the Maguuma. Malyck doesn’t have much of anything the Pale Tree does – though his tree is supposedly closer to the druids than the Pale Tree, he held no Dream, no Ventari tablet, and so forth.
One thing I forgot about your mention earlier: Druids were once humans – Krytans, to be exact. How exactly would the influence of human spirits that became closer to nature prevent corruption from the Elder Dragons?
It’s actually said Malyck doesn’t have a dream when you read inbetween the lines. If you go with Caithe’s path, you find out he never forgot anything, there was just nothing to remember in the first place.
As to the DoD being inherent to the Pale Tree sylvari – I think it is. Otherwise, the Pale Tree would cut off the Nightmare Courtiers from the Dream of Dreams in order to slow/prevent/stop the spread of the Nightmare. The fact she doesn’t shows that she may not have that capability. Furthermore, we not once see a sylvari soul, meaning that unlike a norn there’d be no aethereal tie for a sylvari – only physical ties. Meaning that the body would retain that tie, since there’s nothing departing it (a soul) upon death. Though that’s still conjecture, there’s still no evidence to support sylvari have souls – even they themselves don’t know what happens to them upon death, in a non-physical manner.
Havroun have a connection to the Mists due to the Spirits of the Wild. Upon death, that connection may sever. But for sylvari it is different – they themselves are tied to the Dream of Dreams so there’s no external force to sever that connection, only themselves (thus soundless).
The only way to prove the theory would really be if a Soundless can become twisted by an Elder Dragon or not.
Some links you should read about the Fury and Titans:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Relkyss_the_Broken
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Aurus_Trevess
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Forgotten_Warden
As far as I have seen – no. The speech and all that is instanced, and should be remaining for some time. The invasions are repeating for until Sept 3rd. And the “Playhouse” isn’t open yet.
From what I Noticed, some enemies – Twisted Horror and Twisted Mender – can “rebuild” certain kinds of their fallen allies if the bodies remain. Destroying the bodies prevents that.
Would a havroun’s corpse still hold connection to the Mists?
Except that the Searing doesn’t use crystals to set things aflame. The crystals were already on fire when they appear. It is a simultaneous use of crystal and fire.
And to your argument: the asura gate network was not a “destroyer-ing” process either.
Enhancing the bloodstone was not a “risen-ing” process either.
So it seems pretty pointblank obvious that magic directly from an Elder Dragon does not always corrupt because we have two cases where they do not corrupt while the Elder Dragons – like Kralkatorrik in this case – were hibernating yet had magic siphoned.
And there’s more than just mere “similarities.” Though even if I list them again, you’d remain unconvinced that color, functionality, proximity, and a haywire effigy imbued with “Searing” magic is more than some similarities. The alteration of the two remaining Searing crystals, the odd color of the flames of the Searing crystals, and so forth… is there definitive proof? No. But there’s more than enough reason to suspect, which is more than what you attest for.
It is more than just both involving the color purple.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
Not affiliated with ArenaNet or NCSOFT. No support is provided.
All assets, page layout, visual style belong to ArenaNet and are used solely to replicate the original design and preserve the original look and feel.
Contact /u/e-scrape-artist on reddit if you encounter a bug.
