Guild Wars 2

someone.7485:

Unfortunately, neither of those runes are available in pvp. I was considering runes of strength as an alternative.

Then why are you using WvW version of buildcraft?

Cheese (perplexity) is only addition, not really main dish (your gameplay).

someone.7485:

You are highly vulnerable to conditions with this build. I have been toying with this one (which is similar):
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdMQJAqelcTpErVXx+KseNCbBBqUI6jEln85DEgkC-T1RGABA8AAUS5Xiq/g2JAgN9Als/QVKBJFwi6qA-w

Lert is right about the long duration on bleeding may be undesirable. But the ones usually ran are balthazar or sometimes nightmare. I cannot justify balthazar due to only one way of applying burning, and I just do not like skill 6 that much on nightmare. I noticed a few bugs with the sigil of agony when I was testing it in pvp and I think the sigil of strength is just a better choice with the high number of crits, I am still undecided on the other sigil.

For your build Aristocracy runes are MUCH better choice.
Balthazar runes are not for only granadier build, so naturally that’s not an option. But there are great Scavenging runes that increase survivability with the additional heal or even Antitoxin. There are plenty of choices, pal.

I’d change elixir to tool kit. Pull that works with pry bar, granade attack and pistol skills as one combo is great way to burst at the beginning of the fight. +the 3sec block and aoe cripple&bleed when running away.
Also your runes are kid of waste. You’ve got nearly no use of 2nd bonus of last rune since elite is on such long cooldown. And with basic condi build there is 20sec bleed from granades and 5sec bleed on crit, by this time enemy will easly clear it off. And on group of enemies conditions won’t last longer than 10sec (not to mention 25sec).

Forestnator.6298:

Vitality is much more worth then thougthness before using the healing skill the second time in fight.

Vitality is just universal for direct damage and conditions. And conditions are not a real damage in zerg since there is so much cleanse and nobody runs condi damage build so there’s no real threat. Toughness is much better cause you take less damage so it’s easier to heal it all up.
There were dozens of topics proving that vitality and toughness are good for burst – very short fight when there’s not much time to heal it up, but for anything longer toughness (and healing power) primarly is much better.

Tarreth.8914:

I see. Knight’s set is a must there, right?

Well, after “critical damage nerf” knight set is great choice (for me it always was). It gives you toughness you need, power and critical chance (with granades it’s really cool to have tad over 60% so 2/3 granades crit). I also partly think that vitallity is a little useless stat.

At the beginning focus either on bombs or granades, pick your role. As written above, with each playstyle you can get much more when you change build than using universal one.

Tarreth.8914:

Thank, I waswondering lately, how did I manage to put so many points in firearms ;o now you found it, lol.

Also, I know that for zerg it’s soldier’s gear. Yet, I wonder if something faster to act, than grenades – like for example static discharge build or turret build would be good too?

Neither. Turrets are still in pretty bad place and any dps class can destroy bunch of them within literally seconds (imagine how long turrets would last if eg. 25 players were attacking them). SD is a power-roaming build which isn’t good when there are many people involved since the AoE with it is rather poor.
For zerg there are 3 options: bombs, granades, flamethrower of which the last one is the worst in my opinion. Bombs are pretty solid with frontline tank (eg. 2-0-6-4-2 knight/calestial gear doing pretty decent big aoe spammable damage while healing yourself and allies). Granades as backliner DPSer (eg. 6-1-1-4-2 with knight/zerker items).
As you can see, builds change pretty drasticly depending on playstyle.

Edit: Also my little tip (looking at your build) would be to be strict with same stat items. Eg. if you run condi build – use every item with condition bonus. If you run direct damage build, use items with power always. The only little exception would be calestial gear, but that’s just nice add-up to build focused already on something (eg. power fucused build with mix of calestial gear). Same goes for traits.

Tarreth.8914:

Okay, so I understand my role in zerg. But…

Would someone advice me with traits for either zerg and roaming? I assume that standard pve nade build isn’t good, there must be a difference.
Also, if I put trait points correctly in my condi build? What skills should I use?

Here I put link to it. Trinkets are others, but that’s matter of time: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdEQJAqelUUpkr1XxPLseRSeBNqkEqMA68FgKLyAuDA-ThSBABN/AAwR9HvUaBmyEJVCG9+DAqHAgDEQeaIy+EAEAABgZOzbOzZOzSBwkuK-e

That’s really horrible build, no wonder you’ve got no success with it.
Try something more in this direction: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdEQJAqelUUpkrtbxPLseVCbBNqxEqMCqNIyNWlP2gAA-TRiIABho+DE7PEkSLAeAADpMpOlgjpHgLNE8eCACAgAwMn5Nn5MnZpAgZaE-e with condi bombs 4-2-0-4-2 for sure and 2 trait points left for your choice. And that’s for roaming.

For zerg you should have different set – power focused set.

The only thing I liked from the movie was music choice.

And yeh, the lack of food burns my eyes (but not for long duration cause of that :P)

Well, there’s a point where it is better to go for offense than deffense to profit in both.
Your team will have much more use of you when you will deal more damage, your fields will have bigger radius, your heal will have bigger radius, you will support team mates with healing turret (regen, condi cleanse, blast) than focus only on selfishly staying alive providing neither to your team.

Consider maybe something more power-focused (eg. Knight&calestial), cause your power is really low and critical chance isn’t high either.
Change stacking sigil to either bloodlust or perception (why get additional 125bonus if you can get twice that?)
Change med kit to healing turret and possibly rifle to pistol/shield (healing turret will give some regen to allies, cure 2 conditions on them and on you and you can easly blast it 2-3 times giving additional 2.5-4k burst heal).
Trait bombs for radius, untrait AR I guess since it won’t be that much of an use.
And maybe instead of elixirs play with tool kit for the 3sec block which is life saver.

I’d see it a little more this way: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdMQJAqelUUpPrlcxdLseRiaBNqzE6omjAIyPmlPFBA-TFSBABdcCAoZ/hyU+hoeAMV/pRlgMcgAA4BAEAAB4mtZAM0hO0hO0h2O35OP6RPapAeaYE-w but that’s only me.

Weird that no roamer guild gets any recognition especially that skill cap in there is much higher…

Shalom there.
To answer one of the questions: For PvE"full zerker" (highest dps possible) builds are suggested while for WvW builds that have balance between dealing decent amount of damage while staying alive/tanking (items with deffensive stats, traits to increase survivability, deffensive/offensive utilities). So for PvE mostly it’s “the faster you kill the mob, the less damage you take” while for WvW it’s more like “you can’t deal any damage when you’re dead”.
I’d suggest you running direct damage builds (knight/berskerer/evetually calestial items), but with nothing really premade. We don’t know whether you might rather bombs, granades or even flamethrower. P/S is just nice boost to survivability, additional conditions and even blast.
And don’t be in hurry with crafting items (unlike you rather so) – buying them of TP or dungeon vendors is several times cheaper.

My little imput would be 2-0-0-4-2 for bombs (still 6 points left) or 6-0-0-4-2 (2points left) for granades. For survivability I wouldn’t run both together if you’re still not familiar with the proffession. And perma swiftness, often vigor, passive healing while using kit is really nice.

Good we agree on that I explained why it’s not going to work well.

You did leave one good suggestion tho – not using newest turret trait (Experimental Turrets – boons from turrets) would be loss with 4 turrets, but overall won’t change much without at least gear change more towards dps.

But well, we both got our rights and we both see our statements in different colors.

Pretty sure saying negative aspects in builds is much better and much more useful than your “your build isn’t the best”, “other builds are better” or “drop one turret for tool kit!” alike things.
So yeah, I’d say “Your build is horrible and here goes why” is much more accurate thing to say.

It’s pretty horrible build for basicly anything (probably even for going afk every few min killing mobs one could find out something better).

For WvW it has completly no use. Even killing sentry would take really long time.
For PvE pretty much anything would be better:
No point there having many deffensive items (zerker all the way, eh…)
Pretty bad damage due nearly to non critical chance.
Too much health in comparsion to heal you can offer yourself.
No boons, but one with about 1/6 uptime – regen.
Rather horrible runes for PvE and pointless for WvW with such build since it wouldn’t save you at all.
Double same-type sigils (only one out of two sigils will stack, not both together).
Bad traits even for turret build.

and so on and on.

ReesesPBC.4603:

Rofl who is this VeeWee guy and where did he come from? I seriously picture a goofy science-y announcer popping in a cloud of smoke, giving advice and overviews, and then pooofing away. He’s hilarious ahaha

Shalom. Molenda here #1 Engi EU and some other stuff.

Vee Wee is #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80 right from the Mists. Like seriously, can’t you read? Get real, bro…

*applies confusion *

Yes. Since release 1% critical chance =~21 precision.

It should give about ~12% critical chance, not 10.

Maskaganda.2043:

extra points for La Femme

Haha, maybe next time I will post taking over camps with La Femme in the background and people would still be happy :P

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqelUUpPrlcxdLseVicBNqrEugCGR/wkkjPFAA-ThSBwAw2fYn6PZVOdWJIjDEwVlMdOBAp0CwSHAgHAApAeaYE-e That would be pretty bunker-ish.

Dredd Spirit Caller.4082:

10 -0-30-20-10 build??

Can’t tell exact build it was, since I think there are few viable that suit my playstyle and don’t really remember which one it was. For sure 10-0-0-20-10 is standard, in this case I guess it might have been 20-10-0-30-10 as for bombs.

Shalom fellow Engineers.
Here’s the video I finished right now made of 1-2 month old recordings to clear my hard drive.. Features some outnumbered actions with my guild-mates. Quite much everything is written in description. Enjoy.

qtdogewof.8746:

Congratulations on Vabbi for getting a nice amount of transfers during the free window!

Actually not many or even none… gladly!
I said we don’t need numbers!

Black Teagan.9215:

Dean Calaway.9718:

Jelzouki.4128:

Why does everyone think we’re OP?

Because when you go on youtube and type Thief vs Zerg you see things no other profession can pull off.

Yes, if you search only after “thief vs zerg” then will you never find any other videos, especially these were the other classes do the same.

He didn’t say “you won’t see other proffessions” but “you will see things no other proffession is capable of” – please, read with understanding next time than trying to be wise-champ in here.

Travlane.5948:

Lert.6287:

Travlane.5948:

Lert.6287:

Travlane.5948:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

That’s why maybe…

Were you running glass, were you upleveled, were you tanky, etc. These are important questions man, very important.

Dude, you can answer to all these 3 questions only looking at deffensive stats I posted. (no-no-yes if you can’t figure it out).

You posted armor rating, vitality, boon duration, and healing power. 3/4 of that tells me nothing. If I saw Toughness instead of armor rating, it would tell me everything. Somebody said it earlier up, why were you using just pistol and bomb? Throw grenades, use Elixir S, Supply Crate his kitten .

OMFG! are you serious!? hes an engineer and complaining. ive played 5 days on my engineer and have only lost 1v1 to a thief ONCE…and it was bc i fumbled. engineer NEVER should lose to thief. i run RAMPAGERS…..no toughness. no healing. just rampagers and p/s 20 – 20 – 0 – 30 – 0

It’s everything cool and flowers in theory, but when your hp goes to the bottom in just 3 hits (which apparently weren’t his strongest) there’s not much you can do beside doing best to heal up. The pistol skill is a chain, which i was already chanelling. Bomb was from dodge.
To make it clear: Thief had absolutely no food buffs, no bloodlust stacks and no might stacks when he attacked. Neither was he using power signet.

youhave to react. if u dont …well thats your fault. any class can melt a zerg/ramp/valk in seconds.

as an engineer let me suggest things that are in my build

static shield
static shield discharge
Dodge #1
magnetic shield
magnetic shield discharge
Air blast (flame thrower)
Dodge #2
smoke vent (flame thrower)
Elixir S
Supply Crate
Gear shield
Detonate healing turret (explode + knockback)
Dodge #3

there is about 35-40 seconds of not being able to be touched…..

no excuse

Dude, I honestly don’t care about your l33t suggestions, since it’s not a L2P issue (and apparently the only argument of every thief).

when players cant comprehend why you have a hard time playing against a thief…. yes….yes it very much IS a learn to play issue. would u care for me to demonstrate against YOU in a video and have me post it here?

I’m waiting.

Believe it or not – I don’t need advices.
Just posted my two coppers on why I think thieves are out of balance.
Pure ignorance is saying “thieves are fine, easy to counter, all you have to do is…”

Travlane.5948:

Lert.6287:

Travlane.5948:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

That’s why maybe…

Were you running glass, were you upleveled, were you tanky, etc. These are important questions man, very important.

Dude, you can answer to all these 3 questions only looking at deffensive stats I posted. (no-no-yes if you can’t figure it out).

You posted armor rating, vitality, boon duration, and healing power. 3/4 of that tells me nothing. If I saw Toughness instead of armor rating, it would tell me everything. Somebody said it earlier up, why were you using just pistol and bomb? Throw grenades, use Elixir S, Supply Crate his kitten .

OMFG! are you serious!? hes an engineer and complaining. ive played 5 days on my engineer and have only lost 1v1 to a thief ONCE…and it was bc i fumbled. engineer NEVER should lose to thief. i run RAMPAGERS…..no toughness. no healing. just rampagers and p/s 20 – 20 – 0 – 30 – 0

It’s everything cool and flowers in theory, but when your hp goes to the bottom in just 3 hits (which apparently weren’t his strongest) there’s not much you can do beside doing best to heal up. The pistol skill is a chain, which i was already chanelling. Bomb was from dodge.
To make it clear: Thief had absolutely no food buffs, no bloodlust stacks and no might stacks when he attacked. Neither was he using power signet.

youhave to react. if u dont …well thats your fault. any class can melt a zerg/ramp/valk in seconds.

as an engineer let me suggest things that are in my build

static shield
static shield discharge
Dodge #1
magnetic shield
magnetic shield discharge
Air blast (flame thrower)
Dodge #2
smoke vent (flame thrower)
Elixir S
Supply Crate
Gear shield
Detonate healing turret (explode + knockback)
Dodge #3

there is about 35-40 seconds of not being able to be touched…..

no excuse

Dude, I honestly don’t care about your l33t suggestions, since it’s not a L2P issue (and apparently the only argument of every thief).

Travlane.5948:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

That’s why maybe…

Were you running glass, were you upleveled, were you tanky, etc. These are important questions man, very important.

Dude, you can answer to all these 3 questions only looking at deffensive stats I posted. (no-no-yes if you can’t figure it out).

You posted armor rating, vitality, boon duration, and healing power. 3/4 of that tells me nothing. If I saw Toughness instead of armor rating, it would tell me everything. Somebody said it earlier up, why were you using just pistol and bomb? Throw grenades, use Elixir S, Supply Crate his kitten .

OMFG! are you serious!? hes an engineer and complaining. ive played 5 days on my engineer and have only lost 1v1 to a thief ONCE…and it was bc i fumbled. engineer NEVER should lose to thief. i run RAMPAGERS…..no toughness. no healing. just rampagers and p/s 20 – 20 – 0 – 30 – 0

It’s everything cool and flowers in theory, but when your hp goes to the bottom in just 3 hits (which apparently weren’t his strongest) there’s not much you can do beside doing best to heal up. The pistol skill is a chain, which i was already chanelling. Bomb was from dodge.
To make it clear: Thief had absolutely no food buffs, no bloodlust stacks and no might stacks when he attacked. Neither was he using power signet.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Lert.6287:

That’s why maybe…

Were you running glass, were you upleveled, were you tanky, etc. These are important questions man, very important.

Dude, you can answer to all these 3 questions only looking at deffensive stats I posted. (no-no-yes if you can’t figure it out).

The thief definitely was running glass. Condi engi running very few bonus health items.

However this is an Engi complaining about thief?

And I can tell you that he critted CnD and that HS. Failed the stab, and managed a kill by heartseeker. ~1/3 of the damage dealt is from a gap-closing skill which can stealth (this thief was running D/D though), which frankly does just a little bit too much damage.

I do wonder, though. Why did you let him get off all of these hits? As an engi you shouldn’t be having much trouble with melee-range squishies which have little condi removal and low health. You chased him down with a pistol is all I got from the combat log meanwhile you have a ton of other skills at your disposal which could have easily shut him down.

Frankly if you wanna talk about DPS, thief isn’t the best. Axe warrior does better burst, and eles have the best DPS in the entire game of all classes.

Question of the topic was, why people think thieves are OP. I posted Screen showing why. Sure probably fgs ele can do best PvE damage on his own, but on WvW it’s nothing more than free kill. On the other hand theres cannony thief which isn’t, due stealth.
I would consider myself as good player, but there’s not much you can do when your health drops from 19k (including WvW bonus not shown on stats) to about 5-6k in 3hit chain with BV. My first call was to heal it up which frankly, I did pretty well (thief did 33.2k hp damage on my 19k hp so think how fast I healed up with everything possible I had). I was already fighting and seen thief on his way, so I was prepared to get my hp downed by a little (or apparently not, lol). Idk how could I possibly react. Everything is smooth in theory, but good luck surviving that.

That’s why maybe…

The thing with Underworld is that you don’t actually need more players, but I’d say more skilled existing ones. As much as I hate generalisation, you guys mostly need twice or thrice amount of players to take enemy group down.

My first point supports second, which is – conditions are cleansed easly by zerg. Perpexity runes are for condition build focusing on one enemy (due cooldown) and that can be cleased easly which doesn’t give much damage output.
And naturally, over time – the less enemies the better, but what I meant that it’s not much of help attacking one enemy among 30 with rather bad result (cause conditions will be cleansed easly and that’s certain) while others or other builds can do that, but several times more damage and 3-5 more targets.

PS: About that ele example – If I ever zerged, I would rather backstab thief (or even for that case – direct damage granadier) taking down backliner staff ele than perplexity engi.

Conditions build for zerg is rather bad idea. While it can do relativly well against group of unskilled champs, it won’t do even part of the job direct damage would do against anyone better.
Another thing is that perplexity runes are rather single-target, so when rest are like “I will damage these 5 players down” with perplexity best you could do will be “K, there are 30 opponents, I’ll get this one!”.

King Amadaeus.8619:

Two support guards in a 5 man is cheesy as kitten.

W(h)ine and cheese in one comment.

I’d go with D/D ele, 2 guardians and either 2 warriors or one swaped for mesmer.

Answer to all these guys caring about “poor” roamers against big bad zerg.

The thing is I am roamer myself and I do nothing, but roam. As member of a team specifically searching for outnumbered actions I’ve got to say that retaliation does more good than bad for us. Cause of guardians with high boon duration it stays nearly permanently on each of us allowing us to still do some damage while running away -preventing enemies from easy healing up. It’s the situation where skills matter more than numbers (running away with relativly tanky builds, group heal up – yet doing damage without even attacking. And on other side there’s unorganised zerg spamming skills getting themselves slowly killed).
Huge aoe attacks shouldn’t be free card, retal isn’t evade. YOU as attacker should know what you’re signed for and predict the result of it.
Some people mentioned about builds that are melting to retal. Here’s simple answer – there’s no build “best” at everything and everything has its counter – maybe for granadier retal on group is that? I’m engi granadier myself and in comparsion to damage I can deal fully stacked I think it’s pretty reasonable to get hit for 250damage on every ~1k I do from 1500 range.

Roamers don’t really have problems with retaliation. If they can survive 5vs15 actions, they will do as well with retal on both sides or most likely better.

And as someone called it “anti zerg mechanic” – it’s great name for that. If you drop meteor with your cannony build on 20 players – what do you expect? It’s fair to deal 5-10k damage per hit and easly get away with it?

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

Natronix.9827:

The concept of ele stacking definitely seems to work, so props for coming up with it and sharing.

However with more coordination and a better group comp/theory craft this can really be optimised. You shoudn’t be relying on rallying on your enemy with proper execution of your teams plays

That’s part of the reason I wanted to put this on the WvW forum. What other group comps has everyone else tried that they think would work equally well at killing numbers twice their size? I’d love to know. Zerg busting is the sweetest thing there is (in GW2)

I’d suggest you searching either our YT movies or [Imp]’s, it will answer your question.

If you don’t want to die, maybe don’t attack at all. You’re more of a help alive than dead. Why even bother droping meteor fall if you know you will die – to whine on forum on how “overpowered” Retal is? Cmon…

For me, Retaliation is one of the best things in game and should stay as it is now.

I’m not sure if it was mentioned, but here goes my opinion:
Since I do only small scale roaming with team, I value highly boon duration (so does my guardian teammates), along with high healing power, it makes me part of the support core for our group. It works really well for tankier playstyle. With “only” 60% boon duration it gives perma: fury, swiftness, vigor, regen and at least 16 stacks of might (from swaps and blasts), not to mention high protection uptime. It’s a little like eqiuvalent of healway guardian, but less tankier, although with higher damage (due crazyly stacked might and perma fury).
In bigger team (zerg) it’s not so beneficial, due quite much damage for best possible cost is all that matters.

^
Actually got to correct you.
Necromancer’s worst nightmare would be interrupt, since they are poor in stun breakers. Golden rule as well is to remember not to use skills on long CD on them (not before heal), cause almost for sure they will use healing skill (cleansing all conditions) in half of their health making it full – that’s the moment to give your best, cause they won’t heal up, nor really cleanse in next 25seconds.

Eles still use Lightning Flash which is most likely 32sec. It’s not stun breaker, but once they change position 900range away, what’s the best you can do – two shots of pistol? Granades won’t even fly to the place by the time they are up, dodging with perma vigor. Fighting D/D ele is pretty easy, especially when they are bursty. Few attacks and they are quite much done – unlike you, they don’t have 5sec block (shield&kit). It’s worth to remember most of them will have at least 3.5k “burst” heal and 2-3 condi cleanse every 10sec (the healy eles will have that heal about 6k) while attuning water, so your best call is do damage/conditions after it.

As goes for mesmers: The condition ones have their condition removal from torch skills, so it isn’t anything really fancy + eventually field that removes one condi/1sec (about 7 condis overall?). With mesmer it’s always good call to go for their clones as long they are not close to you.

It’s really hard to write down “tips”, cause it’s always different with direct bombs, direct granades, condi bombs, condi nades.

Kencu.5846:

Merry christmas from WSR!

Merry PvDmass from Vabbi.

Pretty much 0-10-0-30-30 (or 10 in earth instead air) cantrip build focusing on deffensive stats (such as healing and toughness) primarly is pretty good one for anything above 5 players. For anything smaller daggers are always better choice. For anything bigger (zergier) damage is what matters more.

reganbrock.8436:

Aye you got us that time [Psy] we was abit slow seeing you coming on our side;)
But well played:)

Yeah, we had a nice fight there. We just found it funny seeing 5 warbanners dropped within 30sec. :P

Sooo we fought [WvW]

thelma.9824:

Sirendor.1394:

Gizmorage.6412:

Sirendor.1394:

Bah. Well played Jd. Next time try 2v1 instead of 4v1?

Nono, was yesterday at garri. We had maybe 10 people there at a certain point.

Yesterday at Vabbi Garrison? I think there was pretty much the whole Vabbi server vs Jd

Yeah, that’s what he wrote, duhhh.

Gizmorage.6412:

Sirendor.1394:

Bah. Well played Jd. Next time try 2v1 instead of 4v1?

seeing as there are only three jd online in wvw and that we are not in the same borderlands, since everybody is soloroaming i’ll assume it was one [jd] with three pugs, in which case i don’t get your complaint, since this happens all the time in wvw.

You’re assuming it was 3/4 pugs, but not that it happend long before it was posted __

x Charlie.4820:

Is there a duel event tonight/are people planning on going to obsidian sanctum?

Not been in much at all this week, Too much effort to find a fight solo roaming as my newly level 80 ranger!
Would be nice to get some fights that aren’t 20 guys xd

L2P if you can’t 1v20 against these champs!

We were laughing our kitten off watching [PvP] in – something they probably call – action.