Guild Wars 2

Longer rifle range vs lower recharge on immobilize, CC, mobility and better damage along that. Choice seems easy.

Just compare damage.
Potential 2500 damage every 10sec with no stacks of might, nor any of WvW buffs. On top of that it is passive. I believe it needs no further explanation.
Runes of pack (eventually strength by your choice) are great. Easy-stackable swiftness, more crits cause of high fury uptime and additional might.

Side note: You shouldn’t rely on your HEALING skill to boost your damage. It might lead you to situation where you use healing turret for additional stacks of might which will leave you without burst healing for another 15-20sec in which you might happen to be in actual need.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdIQFAUlUUpPrlcxdLseVCbBNqxEqmCqNIyNWlP2gAA-T1hIABHfBAA4BAYi6PIp8bBdAns/AcKBDAcAwwDf8wPPcpAubkF-w

Something like that would be much better with very little change (Cloaking device/ stabilized armor is better option in Inventions)
Best option would be switching to nades.

Well, this build is horrible. No wonder you’re not successful with it.
My first suggestion would be to pick either granades or bombs, Elixir S change to elixir gun and pick toolkit on top of that. That alone will change a lot and increase survivability.
Another thing would be working build around that. Change traits, runes, sigils. If this goes for WvW – sigil of cleansing is great surviv-increaser, sigil of torments adds up decent damage. Runes vary depending whether you focus your build around granades or bombs.
After fulfilling everything mentioned above is good time to focus around playstyle with build, combos, tactics, but that will be improved anyway as the time playing goes. Watching recent engineer movies might help as well (game has changed quite a bit, watching movies that are 2 years old might be not related to the state of game as it is now).

Well, probably the best tip would be to predict where your target will likely be and synchronize it with time granades need to travel to that place.

It’s surely something that gets improved over the hours played. People (players) are predictable, the more you play, the better you aim with nades and the better you know what your enemies might actually do.

Darksteel.8412:

Lert.6287:

Using slick shoes you’re sacraficing much more (eg. kit), so it shouldn’t be too weak.
OC shot – 12 or 15sec cooldown, 1 target, it knocks you down as well. Now compare it to warrior’s hammer…

engies OC shot a risk…LOOOOOOOL……dude the OC shot unless poorly positioned on skyhammer map (wich is you being noob) OC shot isnt only CC…it also gets you OUT of chaotic dangerous situations so you can start spamming from range again…and try again cause of the extremely short cd’s engie has….unlike warrior’s hammer wich get’s you IN the chaos…and requires balanced stance and zerker stance in order to be sure to burst wich also still can be evaded or blocked even still…pls stop hiding behind LIES and excuses…engineer atm is hands down unrivalled the most overpowered class in game in almost ALL situations in pvp….if one class needs to be toned down…and not just few minor nervies…..i mean good hard tone down…its the engie…..denying is just bs

I didn’t call it risk. It is in given situation, but unarguably it is sacrafice since it harms you as well no matter if you CC your target or not, which doesn’t happen with any other CC skill.
How does like ~150 range ~1sec knockback takes me out of dangerous situation? It’s not 1200 range teleport, stealth, block or w/e. CCs are what I would like to AVOID in dangerous situation, not the opposite. And spam from range? It’s been agreed that leaving rifle by itself is really really weak.
And since we’re in warrior topic, F1 hammer is much better CC and mobility on much shorter cooldown and likely removes conditions (all that with reasonable traits, not out of the blue to support my argument). And please, don’t embarass yourself saying “but, but… adrenaline!”. And why out of nowhere warrior requires something for fight (stance, stabi) and engineer don’t? Magically the second one is immune to conditions and CC, and poor warrior is the victim of balance?
I don’t even know why I agreed on replying to something that makes so little sense, with so many poorly chosen words and arguments…

http://argos-soft.net/GW2/ArmorGallery/ choose it all by yourself.

And no, there’s no bonus for wearing whole set of some kind.

I agree. As for traits Speedy Kits would be best for beginning. As for rest: go for bombs and rifle for sure, tho granades can still boost damage for leveling along with primary bombs.

Elixir-infused bombs have rather bad scaling with healing power, so from my point of view it’s rather poor choice going all for it just to make it barely work. Ofc it’s all cool as long you have fun with it! If you want to improve your damage, consider celestial maybe?

2nd build from my perspective as purely roamer: it’s bad in nearly every aspect (survivability, condi diversity and condi burst, direct damage). First thing I’d say is that Tool Kit is pretty much must-have for roaming: 3sec block on 20sec cooldown, pull and for both – condi and direct damage – Pry bar, on top of that AoE cripple is a nice add-up for escaping and Throw Wrench deals decent damage.
Another thing is that FT isn’t really the best kit – especially for roaming.

Some healing power won’t harm engineer (like traits, celestial or rabid+apothecary gear, eventually separate parts of settlers/apothecary gear), but going mainly for it isn’t too beneficial as it is for guardian or ele.
Else you want some fun build to tank plenty of players, then sure – go for it, but normally rabid will be better for additional condi pressure and conditions on critical hit.

But even tho if you would really really want to make some use out of it, build posted below (for WvW, not sPvP) would be better in every aspect.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqelUUpPrlcxdLseVCbBNqxEqMCqNIyNWlP2gAA-T1RHABXoHQL1fqY/BlU+BwJAI4HAgcKBDAgAwMH6MH6MHapAgYaE-w
(eventually Fireforged Trigger instead of Hair Trigger for additional Super Elixir in Elixir Gun).

I’d say it’s pretty horrible:
You’re playing with healing power when your only healing source is healing skill and eventually regen from time to time (no backpack regenerator, elixir gun, healing bombs) so that just doesn’t make sense.
No mobility, no blocks, no stun breaker.
Direct damage turrent on supposedly condi build.
Trait and sigil to improve burning, yet it comes only from two sources – no Incendiary Powder on top of that, which partly carries any condi build.
They are waaaay better runes and sigils.

Elixir Gun is support kit.

Urdhgag.2450:

Holy crap – people are so polite here…

@ Insanemaniac

The main reason for me to suggest magi gear is that it is insanely cheap on auctionhouse, and as that – readily accesible. The armor part is simple 6 gold, rifle is another 1,5. The trinkets are more expensive, but still it is under 20 gold right after hitting the rank 80.

Now to the math. Yes – from the dps side zealot is better – it provied you with 2418 damage points per second (including the critical hit chance and the critical dmg modification – i did count it per minute of constant bombing) while Magi grants You BARELY 1494 dps per minute. Yes that is a thousand damage points per second less. So You kill stuff 40% slower instead of 30% how you have claimed.

Acquisition of the Zealot gear is tough for a new player too. It is crafted ONLY and account bound. You have to spend at least 56 gold on the zealot’s gossamer insignias alone which is at least two times more than what you will just spend on the whole Magi gear.

However the Zealot Gear only provides you with 1344 hit points per second while similiar specced Magi Gear gives you 1730 hps which is rought 400 hit points per second more. Which makes it a little less than a quarter of Your initial healing.

The critical chance is exactly the same, and so is critical dmg multiplicator – so crit-triggered skills will kick in at the same rate. What actually convinced me to Magi gear is the thin red line of hit points – my build will allow You to easily dispatch champions while killing off dungeon bosses alone will be much harder task. Thats where the additional 400 hps comes in as essential. Since these baddies will either oneshot You, or leave You barely alive You have to regenerate as quickly as it is only possible. I had similiar situation with story mode Subject Alpha which almost killed me on many occasions but thanks to this healing i could get up quickly.

If you need something to roam safely AND effectively use the following:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdIQFA0kUUpPrtbNiaBF6bkxAAuW81JeAA-TBCBABRp8TI1fsQJIAPAgWN/B4+DzoDIgLAAA-e
It grants you 1884 damage per second and applies average of 8 stacks of vulnerability.

All damage numbers were counted while having heavy armored targets in mind.

While at the same time the Celestial gear with my first build racks You up 1719 dps and 1489 hps. So i could agree that Celestial gear with Altruism runes might be the way to go since it is less than 200 hit points per second less than the Magi.

Sorry, but that’s horrible build. You won’t kill anybody with it – especially while roaming. Contains only 2 conditions cleanses every 15/20sec. No stun breaker (so far), doesn’t include MAJOR traits (backpack regenerator, invigirating speed, speedy kits and with bombs – forceful explosives) not to mention it won’t be a single problem to tank that “damage”.

You do realise there are skills that do the same as OC (or better), but do not self stun/knockback? In this comparsion OC seems to be underpowered, not overpowered. Thanks for unwittingly pointing that out.

Kagamiku.9731:

OC needs a tell. I’ll be content when it does. Until then, its ability to initiate a chain stun combination is ridiculous. And if they fail to kill you with it, they’ll decap your point regardless.

The only way to dodge it is to get lucky, and no knockdown skill should have that kind of perk. Especially not one on a 15sec cd that’s attached to a weapon skill resulting in zero sacrifice to use it.

If you ask me self-knockback is sacrafice. On top of that getting close to target using weapon that should be ranged is another one.

OP stated he rarely does WvW, so the goal would be gear for PvE – rifle, granades, zerker would be best choice I believe.

Using slick shoes you’re sacraficing much more (eg. kit), so it shouldn’t be too weak.
OC shot – 12 or 15sec cooldown, 1 target, it knocks you down as well. Now compare it to warrior’s hammer…

Arantheal.7396:

@mcef, that might be true, but many people try to land their immob at first, while our transmute is ready as well.
It is hilarious to go into stealth and gain swiftness, while watching them to unload on thin air.
Granted, it will not work always, but when it does, it gives you a headstart for the encounter.

Or, you know… just use block when you’re immobilized.

Balthazar runes with rabid amulet would be better.

Wyrden.4713:

Lert.6287:

Rozbuska.5263:

Problem of Fumigate is it dont clean condis from you. Like no other classes have simillar self punishing barriers like engi (Overcharged Shot and so on).

Really cool change can be if Fumigate will work as eles Cleansing Wave (I hope its right skill name:-P) where you can be also affected by that spray when you runing forward while casting skill.

How about Save yourselves or Corrupt Boon, Epidemic, any Quickness (beside mesmer’s elite) skills?

comparing 1by1 skills is like.. well.. that doesnt work at all. u gotta see professions as a whole.

i tell ya smth: toss elixir s! , elixir s!, gear block! static shield! chain all those and the enemy cant even properly hit u for 12-15s !

Read carefully what people write. Rozbuska said there’s no self punishing skills on other proffessions than engi and I pointed out there, in fact, are.

Rozbuska.5263:

Problem of Fumigate is it dont clean condis from you. Like no other classes have simillar self punishing barriers like engi (Overcharged Shot and so on).

Really cool change can be if Fumigate will work as eles Cleansing Wave (I hope its right skill name:-P) where you can be also affected by that spray when you runing forward while casting skill.

How about Save yourselves or Corrupt Boon, Epidemic, any Quickness (beside mesmer’s elite) skills?

Lupanic.6502:

I can not hear the argument that every class need some weaknesses.

Look at the meta builds. Warrior has 43 condi removals per minute without using sigils on shoutwarrior. This build is absoult playable

Ele has without any change to have a good condition removal 19 per minute. If you go for contional removal you can go up to 45 per minute and still 25 stacks of might and all other stuff.

Condition ranger has 19 + dodge removes poison and blindness (so lets say 25). If you take 3 survival skills you can have 30 condition removals.

All builds are absolut meta builds

Look at the engi. The engi has 10 per minute. (healing turret has a cooldown 15 – 20 and if you place and pick it up it takes too long to have it more than 4 times per minute).

Even if you try to create a condition removal build with only elixirs and you have 26 condition removals per minute. And this build with 5 elixirs is not playable not even in hotjoin.

So I guess a buff to EG would be more than fair.

May I take a look at these builds? Tried to count that myself with totally reasonable builds. Cause for me it seems that these builds are like “Yes, i will cure all your conditions, but no, I will not kill you”.

As well average engineer’s build has potentially 15 condi removals per minute (wrote that above). Seems you lowered that result and increased result for other proffessions on purpose.

As well, if conditions are biggest engi’s problem, why not adding either sigil of generosity or cleansing to build? (additional [over] 6 conditions cleansed per minute)

Edit: People seem to forget that kits are all about using often very different skills on short cooldowns, most of which aren’t crazyly strong. As for Elixir F – it deals decent damage, cripples and bounces on top of that – either giving you boon or hitting 3 times. It isn’t that bad as for one skill out of many, is it?

Little tip for those who do not know it – have another interrupt ready. It’s good to cast magnet pull, force enemy to dodge, since it’s pretty predictable and easy to avoid, and then interrupt him with something else (such as Overcharged shot from rifle).

Only way to deal significant damage with P/P is with HGH build (due high amount of might stacks) – else I’d say no. There needs to be conditions diversity and conditions need to be constantly reapplied (that’s why with condi builds kits, traits, sigils and runes are so important).

Small buff? That’s not small buff at all. On top of that Elixir Gun is on pretty good place right now, so that would be totally unreasonable.

@Lupanic – you can’t be serious. 5 condis cleansed/12 sec. (+ 1/20sec from Super Elixir, + 1/15sec from Transmute, + 2/15 or 20sec from Healing Turret). That would be crazy.

Changes to Kits are not really needed – especially buffs.

If you mostly run with zerg, then best is power spec (either granades or bombs).
If you run by yourself and survivability is your main goal, then condi spec is surely better.

Jerus.4350:

How are you figuring Air/Fire win out over Force?

He feels that.

And AFAIK ANet said they won’t separate skills/traits between PvE and WvW.

Another thing – where is it said that granades are supposed to be condi? Another thing based on your feelings?

Rainmaker.7594:

The point of the thread is that the grenadier trait is massively overpowered compared to traits for any other weapon (does any other class get a 50% damage boost from one trait?) and that melee weapons should do more damage than ranged weapons; in the very least, toolkit needs a major boost. bombs would do more damage compared to grenades if they always attacked at the speed they do under water (0.5 sec, which is what the tooltip says, they currently hit at every 0.84 sec, according to wiki).

Even assuming granadier trait is overpowered – granades aren’t.
Well, thief has Hidden Killer and it can boost critical chance up to 6 times (16% is the very least having this trait and no items with precision).
Ranger has Trap Potency where conditions from traps last 100% longer.
Warrior has the traits that lengthens bleeding duration by 50%.
So the answer is yeah, in a way they have something that increases their potential in given aspect.

And why toolkit needs a major boost? It’s already best survivability kit. Adding insane damage on top of that would be… insane.

Minimum range? That’s just silly. There’s nothing like that in whole game. And how do you think that would work? “Great, I just wasted nearly half of my trait points just to be unable to use granades when I need them”.

Just by saying “no ranged weapon should out damage a melee weapon” there would have to be change to GS mesmer, Longbow ranger and heck – rifle warrior (because of kill shot). Not only granades.
Granades do get boost from Explosive Powder – but so do bombs and mines, and it requires taking this trait over other. It’s not granades-specific thing.
And what I meant with comparing was that we can compare only some aspects (like range, damage, cc etc.), eventually after pros and cons, but not the way you did.
Another thing is that granades are undoubtly harder to play (few topics begging granades to be AA and AT prove that) – played the right way should be more rewarding after all.

The unreasonable comparing is wrong on so many levels.
Comparing bombs with bigger AoE, more targets to hit and undoubtly better survivability and CC to granades with possibly better damage and range – yeah, i’m sure that’s gonna work.

And @Rozbuska – how would you change dps based on range similar to mesmer/ranger? Decrease damage, yet keep granades harder to hit? Is that fair?

About traits – comparing to other traits boosting kits granadier sure might seem unfair, but nerfing granades overall isn’t key to solve it.

No one.
15chars

To be honest it’s your own foult. You didn’t even bother using healing skill. It only shows that retaliation is great anti brainless aoe spam mechanics.

Knight.
15chars

I was thinking about it as well, but it’s bad idea, cause then you don’t actually know how many granades critted. Not that you know that now throwing granades on group and seeing 9 numbers, but throwing on one or two… I think it’s better that way.

You didn’t really bring any light on that matter, since it’s pretty know.
Saying it’s nearly always better to aim for condi duration over condi damage is false. It’s pretty reckless to run 100% condi duration build, over given 70% or so.
For PvE conditions are less viable than full zerker, so that subject isn’t really important, but for WvW enemies will cleanse conditions anyway and having 70 or 100% won’t change anything than your damage per tick.
On average with both durations enemy will have the same about on conditions on him (else you spam pistol/eg #1 – that will eventually increase stacks – which will have lesser damage and will be cleansed soon).

It’s worth pointing out here that especially condition diversity and correct build (along with runes) is rather most important, then condition duration for best cost (which should be over 50% – usually is +40% food, whatever is from traits and eventually single condition from runes) and for the rest aiming for condition damage.

oxtred.7658:

Yeah, because pvp isn’t about avoiding predictable attacks at all. Anyway, berserker in pvp is rather weak for an engineer, try a celestial/ condi build. I know my bombs hit for about 8k in pve, but that’s a full offensive spec, 3-4 in berserker gear is not that bad in pvp.

I’m sure PvP is all like “K, this enemy is 50% now, he will transform to stage 2, start using completely different skills, much more powerful and more CC”.
Guess we can all agree here it is much harder to avoid attack from actual player with brain than it is from NPC in dungeon one has done hundred times.

1. As in any other game – PvP. I like roaming (possibly outnumbered) at best. It’s challanging, I’m keep trying to push “limits” a little further. In my opinion it’s the aspect of the game where skills matter the most.
2. Zerging, blobbing, PvD, Karma. Each of that. It’s like only viable and rewarding WvW playstyle. But since vast majority of WvW players is doing that, nothing will be changed, tho many great suggestions (such as splitting wxp/karma/exp etc. between players participating) were dropped.
3. Tier 9.
4. I have plenty of times. From less populater servers to overpopulated (SFR) expecting enemies will be more skilled there – they weren’t. It was just too blobby to handle. Then GH (current silver league), but soon enough it became zerg fest as well. And then to Vabbi which was nice for roaming at the beginning, but now it’s nothing but zerging as well. And few other servers for in-between, but servers I above were like half a year or so.

First: Watching engineer PvEing will only decrease your skills, not increase. It’s completely different aspect of the game. Soloing duneon is basically only avoiding attacks which are predictable – good luck doing that on PvP/WvW with such success.

Another thing: Maybe these other engineers were using condition builds which are superior to direct damage.
With direct damage granades enemy’s HP is going down quickly, but other things are involved in that, such as build, might and fury, correct runes and sigils.
Direct damage bombs are not really viable for sPvP. Spamming #1 won’t bring success.
For now it’s really "L2P’ issue (or rather time consuming to start doing well). Give it a little time, play around with builds, soon enough you will start doing better.

Dsquaredcri.9421:

Ah just a suggestion, go see tol engis dies 20 times per game, then count how much i die. Open your eyes

The fact that high amount of Asians and Africans are starving due lack of money doesn’t make me wealthy.
If you compare yourself to horrible player, it pretty much talks by itself.

And I disagree with you, not because my view on engi is bad, but my view on one specific engineer is bad. Again – not only your gameplay isn’t anything good, but build either. Why are you trying to convince us white is black and black is white?

Dsquaredcri.9421:

http://www.twitch.tv/dsquared89
Watch me playing there are 3 teamq videos then you’ll understand how to stealth why stealth how to dont lose stealth and why iam useful. You will not see nowadays engis play as good as you’ll see on my twitch, dont you?

Dude, if you were any good and so was your build, you wouldn’t need to convince people about that – they would notice that for their own.
And so far it’s like horde saying “meh build, average skills, you don’t have any arguments” and you’re like “y’all idiots, i’m pro, this build is best – other are kitten, anyone who claims different is wrong”.
Seriously, can’t you see that?

Dsquaredcri.9421:

I would not loose more time replying people who cannot get the point.

When you can do what i do on my videos that time you will understand.

I can’t, since I can’t go back in times when I rolled engi so my skills were pretty similar to yours.

Seriously man, are we gonna argue like that?

Okay, so:
Your build isn’t anything special, seriously.
Granades were and are pretty good. Bombs and granades just offer different things suiting other roles and playstyles. It might be, that granades are bad for you, cause… you’re bad with them.
You don’t even have arguments to support/prove you’re right or deffend your opinion, else than saying “blah bla nades are kitten”.
And under what list, ranking, anything, are you saying Teldo was best?

“these days”, “what is popular atm”, sorry, i couldn’t hold myself seeing you that way: http://i.imgur.com/dnLSHRD.gif

But back to your questions:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqelUUpPrlcxdLseVCbBNqxEqMCqNIyNWlP2gAA-TJhHwAU2fgwDAAwJAAZZAA or very alike. I rather having 2 points in Inventions for extra survivability (either for invis or stabilized armor), some rather moving it somewhere else. This goes for condi bomb setup.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqelUUpErlcxdLseRCbBNqxAqNIyNWlPfgAkUA-TpgIwAAeAAELDAA various rune sets match here. As for traits I personally rather 6/1/1/4/2 – again, for extra survivability.

There’s as well HGH (based around 3 elixirs and runes with might duration) and power builds such as power nades or SD, but less popular.

I, for sure, wouldn’t recommand both granades and bombs together since then your survivability goes down. Not worth it at all.
For damage in WvW/PvP these kits for sure offer the most.

I’d say:
Proper build for playstyle
Decent balance between damage and survivability (warrior is great in both)
Mobility
and probably most important – keep pushing challange, even at the beginning. Don’t be afraid of outnumbered fights – these might teach you something and certainly won’t teach anything enemies. Day by day you will do better.

Change your food to 40% condition duration – that’s for sure.
Elixir Gun can go instead of Rocket boots.
Runes can be easly changed from cheesy Perplexity to Balthazar.
Sigils: Battle + Torment would be better.

Krookz.9420:

Fix retal. Really easy to kill yourself before you even realize whats happening.

It’s not like it is anti brainless AoE spam mechanic.

Well, you’re trying to have one universal build for everything and still expect from it to be pretty good. Something like that doesn’t exist.
For any PvE things (excluding karma train in EOTM, haha) best way is to equip full zerker gear with scholar runes and traits for heavy damage. In other words – deal damage as high as possible.
WvW is where the armor counts. I myself run always with around ~2800 armor and many deffensive traits and utilities.
If you’re casual player who doesn’t fancy WvW – equip for PvE.
If you’re rather of a WvWer – equip for WvW (and still, you will be able to do PvE – just your damage will be lower).

Engineer will never be ~Guardian or ~Warrior for zerging, but the same goes for other proffessions.
I’m not zerging fan, but I’m pretty decent with builds.
Basically there are 3 choices: Heavier damage granadier backline (something like 6-2-0-4-2), frontline dps tank with bombs, and frontline tank with bombs (2-0-6-4-2). Flamethrower is just not in in terms of damage, support and cc.

Since F1-F4 aren’t far from “WASD”, the only problem might be 6-0 keys or 7-0, which should be moved somewhere closed: Q/E/R/T/Z/X/C.
For me 6 is on good spot. 7 – X, 8 – C, 9- Q, 0 – R, everything else stays the same.