Guild Wars 2

WvWvW is still one of the areas where Mesmer is good, that is pretty much because of traited Focus, Greatsword and Feedback.

What makes greatsword so good in WvWvW will be fixed eventually though, will probably still be the go to weapon for Mesmers when their focus is on cooldown.

Sotaudi.1265:

Levetty.1279:

They did outright lie. Not a single person over every forum I have checked or in my time playing as the ranger has this graphical glitch been seen.

Not even the Anet apologists have tried claiming they have seen this glitch.

Man, I am so sick of reading forums because of nonsense like this. How, pray tell, would you know whether or not you, or any of us, have seen the graphical glitch they intended to fix since all they have told us is that there was a graphical glitch and they have not once stated what the glitch was?

Did it ever occur to you weapon speed is largely tied to the time it takes for an animation to complete as well as the time between the end of one animation and the start of the next? Furthermore, did it ever occur to you (since they mentioned a change of 40ms) that an animation may have been completing 40ms sooner than they had intended or that the animation for the following shot was starting sooner than they had intended. In either case, these would have been correctly identified animation glitches, and no one would have “seen” this glitch even though it was happening every time they fired that first skill!

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t like this change at all. It looks to me like the change resulted in an unintended and excessive decrease in the weapon’s DPS. I hope this is the case and that they will recognize the error and fix it. However, you have no right to call them liars just because you have not seen a graphic glitch they never described because you haven’t a clue as to what the glitch they were trying to fix looks like.

If this were an aptitude test, I’d say you should seek a career in “journalism,” as you already have the rush to judgment without a shred of evidence skill down to an art form.

Then the change was intended as a nerf to the attack speed of the bow and they should have put that in the notes.

But that also leaves us with the problem that they intended the shortbow to be as mediocre as all our other weapons. So what exactly is Ranger supposed to do? I swear if they had made it so that Shortbow hurts yourself with every shot some people would be defending this horrible patch.

Drakes, I think they are still kinda bugged but their F2s can hit hard.

Rangers are due to their pets being one shotted, lack of group support, lack of damage and lackluster utilities.

Mesmers are just above them due to some gimmicky utilities we can bring.

Are people forgetting that one of the big things about this game was that every class could do Ranged and Melee?

Ranger currently can’t do either, I don’t care were the word Ranger originated from. I was promised a class that can do ranged and melee and I want a class that can do ranged and melee.

Nautika.5376:

I mean seriously!!!!! You all going to say that ONLY SB was viable in pvp?

Throw in dungeon as well and that is exactly right.

EasymodeX.4062:

Most readers would infer the following point: you will have to wait for a very long time before a Mesmer will have problems killing a mob when they log on.

Apart from his patch shows (and not just what they did to Mesmers) that PvE balancing isn’t even the slightest concern for them and that they will balance PvP based on forum crying.

Now that people know that their crying is listened too what do you think they will start doing when all those Phantasm Mesmers swap to the much more effective shatter builds?

And what has Mesmer got left in PvE when the shatter builds are gone?

EasymodeX.4062:

Umm, Engineers have nothing on a Mesmer for keep sieging in WvW.

Currently I have a 1:5 badge to kill ratio in WvW. I’m curious if actual damage done to individual targets impacts badge accrual.

I think you need to learn how to play Engineers.

So all the hardcore dungeon and tPvP guilds who have had plenty of time to practice with every class and min max the hell out of everything and both decided that Rangers are useless are wrong but you managed to find the secret to making them good?

Sounds legit.

EasymodeX.4062:

Don’t hold your breath. I still kill trash mobs in <4 seconds post-patch.

Ok but we were talking about when they PvP whiners get the good Mesmer builds nerfed so what is your point.

So because the word Ranger doesn’t mean that they are a Ranged class that means it is perfectly fine to have no decent ranged weapons to go along with our lackluster melee weapons?

Makes perfect sense.

I hate when people who have no idea how the game works or what other classes can do makes a thread saying that an obviously UP class is fine.

having fun playing it =/= effective class

EasymodeX.4062:

Pretty sure 15 -> 20 is not “double”. Traited, 9 -> 12s.

Oh no, a 3 sec delay on the second phantasm summon! Class is broken!

Edit: And zero impact on GS or Focus. Zzz.

Sidenote: Can I haz ur stuff?

Can’t wait to see what you come up with next week when clone generation and shatters are nerfed to appease the PvP babies.

EasymodeX.4062

For hearts and dungeons, Mesmers are fine. Currently Mesmers may be slightly OP for dungeons.

I know I really shouldn’t because you seem to have some obsession with lieing about Mesmers but here we go.

Mesmers are the worst class for doing hearts. Twice as much work for half the results.

Most if not all hardcore dungeon grinding groups put Mesmer as 7th in the rank of how good classes are in dungeons, only just beating out the ultra crappyness of Ranger. The only thing they provide is feedback and time wrap.

Kildari.2480:

No way at all. I love how many people here think warriors are the end all be all and want to switch. I have a level 80 warrior and I died wayyyyy to much to have fun especially in dungeons. They are complete crap for survivability on any situation 1 vs more than one. Single target snares and roots make me sad. How anyone can play them and like it I will never understand but to each their own.

The recent nerfs while saddening are hardly anything that will keep me from playing. The only way that will hapkitten if they nerf our ae control.

green plum.7514:

Levetty.1279:

I never said anything about an anti Ranger conspiracy.

Please read a post before you respond to it instead of just trolling and adding nothing to the conversation.

Apparently you don’t read what you post yourself. Quote:

“The second is that Anet outright lied in their patch notes. There was no graphical glitch, I have never seen anybody here or over on guru mention it and I certainly have not seen it myself but apparently this made up glitch was so important they needed to nerf Ranger.”

Which is followed by further claims how much ANet hates Rangers.

The interesting thing is, ANet does not buff or nerf classes based on whine on the forums, actually they change classes despite the whine. They are not afraid to make unpopular but correct decisions (such as the recent Guardian changes), and this is why I personally trust them.

Don’t get me wrong: I too believe that the SB changes are bugged or unfinished. And ANet should respond to this. But why won’t give them the chance to actually do it before you start accusing them of all possible sins. If they don’t respond within a reasonable time frame, then I too will make a big fuss about it. But since the patch, hardly 24 hours have passed. You are clearly delusional if you think that ANet will throw all their available resources on this issue – it will be tested and discussed in a meeting in due time until the responsible persons reach a verdict about the issue and then an official response will be formulated and posted. I have no idea what you do for living, but its clear that you have no experience with management of big projects. You just can’t force response on issues like that, or you will inevitably end up with chaos.

They did outright lie. Not a single person over every forum I have checked or in my time playing as the ranger has this graphical glitch been seen.

Not even the Anet apologists have tried claiming they have seen this glitch.

Ranger just had their only decent weapon nerfed and Anet lied about why they did it, so no I wouldn’t go to them.

Engineer or Warrior for easy PvE/farming and great dungeon and WvWvW too.

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

OHHHH GOD I CANT PROFIT OF AUTO ATTACKING ALONE ANYMOREEEE. Quit crying, all shortbow users did was auto attack and shortbow became the best dps wep rangers had. Jokes on you, its not meant to be a dps weapon.

Then which one is? Because none of them are dps weapons and the pets aren’t taking up the slack in dungeons, pvp or WvWvW.

Engineer easily, so OP in PvE is ridiculous and I can keep the medium armour.

Don’t worry shatter builds will be hit next because that is what tPvP Mesmers use.

I’ve created clones while holding environment weapons in PvE using the dodge trait and they came out with no weapon and started throwing something that looked like the scepter attack.

Yasha.5963:

Levetty.1279:

So still no reversal on this horrendous patch?

Pathetic Anet, can’t wait to watch this game crash and burn due to your utter disregard for the fanbase.

Hey, i understand the pain but come on. This game still kicks kitten in so many ways its not funny, especially pvp wise. I just have to polish up on my thief skillz again, its always a bit embarrasing the first couple of days but you know what they say, “a change is as good as a holiday”.

Awesome that I can just take up another class from max level, with no grinding necessary except to build skill, when the devs decide to nerf one class into oblivion.

I don’t care about PvP scrubbing. If I wanted to play PvP I would play a PvP game that requires skill and not just whining in forums until all the other classes are nerfed.

I’m also going to put this back up that got buried somewhere because people really need to read it and think about how this patch was actually made.

First (and quickly because it is off topic) this patch nerfed Mesmers dungeon ability (and made their general PvE worse) when they were already the second worst dungeon class in some vain attempt to nerf Mesmer phantasm builds in PvP. It not only failed to nerf those builds in PvP but those builds weren’t even the strongest mesmer PvP builds so God knows whats going to happen next monday. They will probably just delete Mesmers ability to go into PvE and save us all some time.

Second and a much bigger screw up is this Ranger SB change.
3 Things happened here, the first is that they made it quite obvious they don’t test patches out before putting them up because not only is the increase much more then 40ms but QZ and SB is completely bugged, these were the first things Ranger tested when it went live but apparently testing is too much trouble for Anet.
The second is that Anet outright lied in their patch notes. There was no graphical glitch, I have never seen anybody here or over on guru mention it and I certainly have not seen it myself but apparently this made up glitch was so important they needed to nerf Ranger.
Which leads into the third thing that happened, to fix a graphical glitch they nerfed the only good (note not great) weapon of the overall weakest class in the game. Nerfs were the furthest thing from what Ranger needed and yet thats what they got. They shouldn’t be changing the function of any skill to fix a graphical problem but if they were going the lazy way about it then they should have upped the power/bleed damage to compensate the lower attack speed.
Seriously what part of this screams out effort to you? What part even screams out that they even had a thought while doing it.
Is this really the type of decisions you want from people running a MMO?

So still no reversal on this horrendous patch?

Pathetic Anet, can’t wait to watch this game crash and burn due to your utter disregard for the fanbase.

Wolfe.3097:

Levetty.1279:

Ashanor.5319

Better get used to PvP being considered first and foremost buddy. This isn’t WoW.

Enjoy watching the support for the game dry up when all the PvE players leave to go to games made by companies that actually value their customers

good riddance, annoying people who mess up pvp for the sake of pve

Yeah you missed the bit were the horrible PvP community wasn’t enough to carry the game. There is a reason Nightfall and EOTN were like they were.

Zsymon.8457:

The change to the guardian greatsword for example, shows how there is absolutely no communication between designers and players. Every single player in the game would have said: “NO don’t change the order of the skills, and NO don’t double the recharge of symbol of wrath, as it cripples dps and combo field availability, just replace the retaliation with another boon, since the change was done because of retaliation.”

Now tons of players are deleting/quitting their guardian because the change made it unplayable to them and effectively applied a massive, unintended nerf to offensive guardians. It won’t get fixed, because none of the previous overnerfs got fixed either (example: ranger longbow & elementalist dmg). These kinds of extremely low quality, shot-in-the-dark gameplay changes really worry me.

The sad thing is that I thought I had left the behind when I stopped playing World of Tanks but Anet make Wargaming look like they know what they are doing and care about the customers.

I was so looking forward to this game too.

Ashanor.5319

Better get used to PvP being considered first and foremost buddy. This isn’t WoW.

Enjoy watching the support for the game dry up when all the PvE players leave to go to games made by companies that actually value their customers

Bombul.2506:

Does anyone else see a nerf to mimic on the horizon? I ignored it for a long time. Now I realize most abilities seem to fall into the “ranged” category. Add to that that after “absorbing” (aka being hit really hard and still taking the damage) the first ability it acts as a full shield with retaliation. I am not 100% sure, but I believe in my last WvWvW match it worked against 100 blades and just slaughtered the warrior.

It will be shatters next, then clone generation, then Moa elite, then Mimic/feedback, then Phantasmal Warden again, then time warp and then blurred frenzy. Once all thats done the PvP whiners will focus their full attention to thief while PvE Mesmers will be unable to get past the first mob they meet when they next log in.

Guys if you want a PvE/WvWvW replacement for your Ranger and want to keep the medium armour then Engineer is a good choice too.

Their granades can put out way more aoe damage then Rangers can do single target and can do it at 1500 range too and all the whining about them is that it isn’t strong enough yet so it may even get buffed.

Alientongue.3045:

Guess ill see you on the warrior’s forum complaining when they get a nerf then. The SB needed a nerf and it got one how are so many people surprised by this. If all it takes is one nerf for you to stop playing a profession then it more likely your just a FOTM player and was going to change professions soon enough

Ranger FOTM? I can’t laugh at you enough quite frankly.

Don’t make it so obvious that you never played the class and only came here to troll.

Jerry Higmenson.5817:

Whether it was a nurf or a “glitch fix” it needed to happen. SB was just to easy to stack bleeds with how fast the auto attack was, and really we all should have seen this coming. But now I think the Rangers other weapon sets need some rework to bring them up to pair with the SB and the way it is now. Plus their pet still needs some love too. Anet is stepping in the right direction with them, but there’s still a ways to go.

What? Have you used any of the other classes bleed stacking weapons?

Don’t answer I know you haven’t.

People saying this isn’t a big difference to PvE for Mesmers do realise that this patch proves that PvE players are nothing in Anets eyes right?

They did this purely to balance PvP and don’t care about how the class is struggling in PvE. Now that the whiners have won they will turn their eyes to the next thing and whine until that is nerfed. Know what was more powerful then phantasm builds in PvP? Shatter builds. Have fun next monday when they are nerfed.

Short answer is no.

If you survive the grind to 40 then you can stack crit and get the trait that gives you a clone on dodge and go the one viable build to get through exploring/story but every other class will be doing it much faster then you. Then when you get to 80 you will be unable to effectively join in the mass AoE zerg that Orr is.

In dungeons we have some gimmicky utilities and Time Warp but everything else we can do while they are on cool down will be barely noticeable and they just nerfed our ability to get Phantasms out so now our DPS will be even lower in dungeons.

In WvWvW we once again have some gimmicky utilities and elites to help out. And in small scale stuff we can do alright but our lack of speed boosts makes it hard to actually get anywhere we are needed.

Also today’s patch showed that they consider PvP a higher priority then PvE even though PvE is where everybody is playing so expect some more Mesmer nerfs in the upcoming patches until they can barely take on some random mob 1 on 1.

Carighan.6758:

Levetty, when offered a solution, the wrong reaction is to then whine about that, too.

Well it isn’t a solution so…

So one AoE on a 15 second cool down is the same as Granade Spam or spinning Heavy armour classes now?

And teleporting a small distance every 30 seconds is the same as constantly running faster?

I don’t know what problems people have with Mesmer being buffed up to be as good as all the other classes in PvE but they need to get over it.

So you don’t even have a Ranger but you are tying to tell us that the Ranger is not currently in a horrible state?

Classic…

I wish people would stop acting like we were using Shortbow because it was so powerful when the only reason we were using shortbow is because the other weapons were so weak.

Have you played a Engineer Wulfrim? They are the best class at PvE and Keep defenses and they are still crying and wanting their kits buffed, its ridiculous.

Speaking of PvE/PvP split can we please get one for the Mesmer class forum? That way we can have proper conversations about the Mesmer without PvP whiners coming in and calling us FOTM class bandwagoners and acting like punishing PvE players, who probably rarely play PvP, for their unwillingness to actually attack the Phantasms (seriously even centaurs have figured out how to do this) in PvP makes even a bit of sense.

I wish I had just rolled as an Engineer at release.

What a disappointment this game has been.

We need:

Rifles for looks

Staff for Nature Magic

Hammers for bunny thumping.

Bead.8609:

I’m tired of non pvpers buying and playing obviously pvp based games and then complaining about how pvp affects pve.

I’m tired of PvP community ruining games for people who play them to have fun and acting like they are better then everybody else.

arjeidi.2690:

I thought during their years-of-hype for this game, they stated they explicitly would be doing this. I thought they learned from GW1 that if you’re going to have serious pvp, you have to keep skills balanced there, but you can’t keep vs.-human skills tuned the same way as vs.-hordes of higher armor/health/damage AI creatures because the same skill doesn’t work the same way in both environments.

I thought they learned this. They said they learned it. But I guess not… time to go back to Champions, I think.

They seem to have forgotten a lot of lessons they learnt during GW1.

This is just disgusting quite frankly, nerfing the weakest PvE class because some PvP whiners have less intelligence then a PvE mob. I paid just as much money as them to play the game, why should I be treated like a second class citizen? Then to rub salt into the wound add some more bugs. And why the hell was Chaos Storm nerfed?

Looks like its time to make Warrior and Engineer characters now, obviously what they want us to play.

Fozee.1083

ANet doesn’t make changes that weren’t very carefully thought out and implemented.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Smiter%27s_Boon_

I want new legendary bows, Rangers got completely screwed there.

Wen with the Priory for the Indiana Jones reason, shame the Priory medium armour is so awful though. Willing to buy Whispers armour for gems.

I’d say the only problem with it compared to other downstates (except the Theif who can run off to the other side of the map using theirs) is that stomping is an AoE effect for some reason.

EasymodeX.4062:

Mesmers do well in WvW, dungeons, sPvP, tPvP, solo PvE, PS, DEs.

Mesmers are underpar at Orr DEs, 100% map exploration.

I guess I’m just glad the Mesmer strengths match my playstyle 100%.

Btw, Rangers are weak in WvW. Last I checked they were weak in sPvP too. They need some buffs for several aspects of the class.

Edit: The #1 contribution of Rangers in WvW is their heal with provides a water field. I feel bad for them.

BUT THEY CAN RUN AROUND THE MAP FOR 100% COMPLETE REALLY FAST!

7/10

I like how your subtle mix of small amounts of truth into your blatant lies meaning you have to spend a lot of time to really pick it apart and show everybody why you are wrong.

Much better then your usual Troll attempts.

Try playing a Ranger though because it falls apart with that bit.

Emrad.9260:

Of course the Charr would lament the death of their own over the death of humans, and hordes of ghosts on their doorstep that still claim casualties 200 years after doesn’t make them very wrong.

Well the Charr committed mass genocide which forced forcing all the humans into Kryta where they are being killed by Centaurs, why don’t they get any kitten for that?

Not to mention how many people died defending Ebonhawke when all they do is pretty much sit in there and try not to die.

Ok everybody saying that a 10% signet or trait would make the class OP then answer this.

What if they get the trait that gives us a 9% speed increase when we have 3 clones up and reverse it, so we have 9% with no clones and 0% with 3? This gives the out of combat speed boost (still 1% less the other classes) and lowers our in combat performance which everybody seems to think is so powerful we need to have a constant cripple effect out of combat.

Creslin.1758:

Levetty.1279:

Sylosi.6503:

I think you will find what is stupid is saying there is more PvE content than PvP, when PvP content is always far more replayable, so making a direct comparision is futile.

They were showing off PvP last year…

As for the rest I suggest you read some interviews with the devs and if you think a game with no real raids, that has virtually removed PvE gear progression in order to improve PvP, has launched with far more PvP content than most MMORPGs (the WvW zone alone makes efforts in most recent games look pathetic) and that has the stated intent of making the tPvP into an esport, is somehow a PvE focused game like Rift, LOTRO, etc then I suggest you actually try putting a little thought into it.

Levetty.1279:

Once again GETTING GOLD IN DE IS NOT THE PROBLEM. I would repeat that but since it has been repeated several times in each thread about this then I don’t think it will help. I have got Gold from running through an event doing nothing, if I hacked the game and gave myself a rabbit to play as I could get gold in DEs. The problem that the only way to get materials/coins at the rate you need to to not have to grind the game for 5 years is from tagging mobs in the Orr DEs. In them support doesn’t matter, the all mighty portal that everybody seems to think is the answer to all of Mesmers problems from damage to getting across maps doesn’t matter, noobs inability to fight us in PvP doesn’t matter. All that matters is aoe damage and Mesmers can’t do it fast enough to compete there and they are the only ones who can’t.

Then don’t make silly blanket claims that mesmers are useless at PvE, in general they are fine at PvE, they are fine in dungeons, fine in terms of getting gold in events, fine on boss events, the only thing they are not good at is tagging mobs in DE, but then that is a long way from being “useless in PvE”.

Yeah sorry forgot that 3 maps spread over the whole of one mode is more content then the whole PvE, dungeons and WvWvW combined. k

Mesmers suffer in exploration, tagging in DEs, efficiently getting through trash in solo and quite frankly variety of our builds.

They maybe better at certain things then other classes but in turn those classes can still actually do well in the areas that Mesmer are better. Don’t act like I want all the classes to be the same. I just want Mesmer to be able to get gear.

Okay, so you just want mesmer to be able to get gear. Fine, you can already do that. You can get gear through dungeons, WvW, or open PvE. I will grant that mesmer is not the BEST at tagging mobs in DEs, but you can definitely do it. No, you will not be as good as an engineer at doing it, but you can do it. You are seriously exaggerating when you say a mesmer can do nothing in open world PvE.

In the end, if you want to be a character that focuses on farming DEs for loot then make a flipping engineer. Kind of like how I wanted to be a character that had a lot of utility in WvW so I made a mesmer.

No I want them to fix the tagging/DE mechanics so its not just a mass zerg through Orr but if they are not going to do that then the Mesmer has to change.

You can’t get all skins through Dungeons and you can’t get legendaries. If you want to talk about dungeons so much we will.

One of the few things that most class forums seem to be able to agree on is that Rangers are the worst class for dungeons between the Pet problems, the lackluster utility skills and relatively poor support options. On the other hand they are obviously the best class for general PvE and have some great options for WvWvW. So should Rangers just be left as they are, with some groups even beginning to refuse to let them in their dungeon party, just because they can do those other two alright or should Anet go through with their whole ‘all classes can do everything promise’ and give them those buffs? If you are smart you said they should get those buffs. Thus I see no problems with Mesmer getting these buffs if they are unwilling to change the tagging mechanic just because they can do well in WvWvW and dungeons.

EasymodeX.4062:

Yeah sorry forgot that 3 maps spread over the whole of one mode is more content then the whole PvE, dungeons and WvWvW combined. k

Odd, the only problem here is in Orr, which is 1 zone. Also, WvW = PvP zones. 4 sPvP maps + 4 WvW zones >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PvE.

Mesmers suffer in exploration, tagging in DEs, efficiently getting through trash in solo and quite frankly variety of our builds.

Mesmers suffer in 100% map complete exploration, and in DE tagging (along with other classes).

That’s it.

If you perceive that trash is hard to solo, and that the Mesmer has a low build variety, that is purely your deficiency as a player. Don’t blame the class.

WvWvW is PvE with worse mob AI don’t fool yourself. At best its a combination of PvE/PvP leaning on the PvE side more in terms of content/what builds and skills are effective and the need for gear.

I never said trash was hard, learn to read.

There is no variety. Spam out phantasm to do damage or spam out clones to do shatters. PvP adds confusion in the mix allowing us to mix it up a bit but we are too dependent on clones and phantasms for everything for any build to actually feel different in PvE (not to mention the most trait dependent class in the game).