Guild Wars 2

Oh and I’m fine with you not having the English language down pat (if It’s a second or whatever language) since I can’t speak any other language half so well. But when I see a huge long argument that’s really just about words and semantics I see that a language barrier is probably the source of the proverbial ticking pipe bomb.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

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to be honest I stopped reading your posts when I saw the word “runned” used.

I’m so manLilith.

What’s the correct term for completing a dungeon as fast as possible?

I was just looking for “ran”.

As for speed running dungeons… just that I guess.

Jerus.4350:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Jerus.4350:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I’m not sure. My guess is that these were supposed to be pretty rare items only for people who worked hard to get them (the 250 heirlooms were not a walk in the park by any stretch). But I don’t know. Could have been overlooked.

Quite annoying since they went from being useless(to me) out of combat looks only, to being awesome in combat looks if i’m not mistaken.

I had the heirlooms but passed on it because it simply wasn’t anything I’d use, wasn’t worth the inventory space to me. Now that it can be used in combat that has changed.

Ah yeah that sucks. I figured it was a bug…

It was part of the conversion of outfits and what not. Quite upsetting to me =/

My thought process was that “it’s not usable in dungeons for no reason at all. Bugged. It’ll be fixed. Soon™” so I went for it. But I get why some wouldn’t

I’m so manLilith.

maha.7902:

No Pulse.2967:

maha.7902:

joined a path 2 before lupicus, hit the floor mid-way through phase 3, some dude finishes soloing.

ragequit group.

- – - – this game

I’m pretty sure everyone who can solo Lupicus can relate to that.

I was the one who got trash canned and ragequit, not them

time to not play gw2 for like a week

I think his point was that everyone who has soloed Lupicus can still make mistakes but they feel them a lot harder. Like you did. If you’re like me and you get trashcanned, it’s a normal disappointment, but even pros can screw up and they feel much more disappointed In themselves because “they should have known better.”

So buck up dear <3 you’re not alone.

Trevor. You’re not getting this. We told everyone who suggested this change that this exact situation would be the case. We got called elitists and we’re beaten down into our dungeon here. We said this would happen. We are not really disagreeing with you. But. Again. This Is what we said would happen.

Dual.8953:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Dual.8953:

@Bread: Reading that post by Hrouda I wonder if he’d still have that stance. When he wrote that that, dungeons were a very different experience where toughness was considered important. He states that if someone’s skilled enough, they should be allowed to run gear magic find gear, a gear set that was more reviled than clerics is now; back then you were considered a leecher if you weren’t geared to survive and were using magic find gear.
Now magic find gear is just plain gone and you’re considered a leech if you’re geared to survive. Dungeons have gone with minimal care for the past long while, and the veterans have learned practically all the tricks. The standard is now a singular playstyle when it was once greatly varied and full of experimentation. It makes me wonder what Mr. Hrouda would think if he saw the dungeons as they are now.

He would think:

Robert Hrouda

All of you dungeon forum elitists have grown into something beautiful. Thanks for continuously fighting the good fight and sticking It to ArenaNet daily. I’ve watched from the shadows and approve of all you guys do, every day, in my name and in the prophet’s.

Lilith. Can you give me something more solid and thoughtful? I’ve been a Thief since betas, so I’ve had to live through “Sorry, Thieves can’t do dungeons” getting snubbed for warriors and guardians by my own guildies, so I think it’s fair I still have some animosity towards metas.
That’s not to say I don’t run Zerk/Scholars and fiddle with my traits every hour on the hour to adapt to challenges. It’s just seeing people tell eachother, “Sorry, you’re useless” still rubs me the wrong way.

I’m sorry. My mindbrain has no solid thoughts.

My thief is pretty. And colesys. That’s all I know.

Dual.8953:

@Bread: Reading that post by Hrouda I wonder if he’d still have that stance. When he wrote that that, dungeons were a very different experience where toughness was considered important. He states that if someone’s skilled enough, they should be allowed to run gear magic find gear, a gear set that was more reviled than clerics is now; back then you were considered a leecher if you weren’t geared to survive and were using magic find gear.
Now magic find gear is just plain gone and you’re considered a leech if you’re geared to survive. Dungeons have gone with minimal care for the past long while, and the veterans have learned practically all the tricks. The standard is now a singular playstyle when it was once greatly varied and full of experimentation. It makes me wonder what Mr. Hrouda would think if he saw the dungeons as they are now.

He would think:

Robert Hrouda

All of you dungeon forum elitists have grown into something beautiful. Thanks for continuously fighting the good fight and sticking It to ArenaNet daily. I’ve watched from the shadows and approve of all you guys do, every day, in my name and in the prophet’s.

joe.9815:

maybe a festivial ticket thing then and like 2k tokens

Maybe

Maybe it’ll come back or maybe it’ll become a helm skin.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Here we go again:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Does-the-game-still-relly-to-much-on-zerkers/first

Lilith already found it.

You’re god kitty right I did.

Alilinke.7690:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Alilinke.7690:

I was going for a detective look

Head piece: Reading Glasses
Shoulders: Hidden
Chest Piece: Trickster’s Vest
Gloves: Aurora Gloves
Leggings: Illustrious Breeches
Boots: Winged Boots

Please write me a story with those screens.

Hehe

Aww but I suck at writing stories.

Haha aw. Guess I’ll just have to imagine one.

I just don’t understand what is so hard about understanding the very simple fact that in this game, the highest damage will always be the most efficient. If that is, 4 berserkers and one knight gear spec professions, then that’s what it is. Optimization will always be a thing. It’s like saying “I want there to be an ocean but I don’t want there to be water.” As long as there is an end to a boss fight, there’s always going to be a quickest way to kill it.

rfdarko.4639:

I’ve been pugging nearly every day for over a year now. Here’s my perspective -

Pug runners themselves haven’t gotten any better or worse, you get good and bad and everything in between. I have seen people become more accepting of the zerk meta (despite what forum warriors say), especially since WP started preaching it in his videos. I see a lot more rangers rocking cats/drakes and usually a greatsword, which is a step up from the bows.

When you pug there will always be horror stories. There will always be terribad runs, and those will be the ones you remember and tell to your friends. You can’t extrapolate anything from a single anecdote – the weird and random and “impossibly” bad will happen, but that doesn’t mean anything for the overall state of pugs.

Most people who I see complaining about the declining state of pugs don’t realize that they are just getting more familiar with the game. It’s like when you go back to your kindergarten classroom and everything is smaller. There are mechanics and techniques that people start to take for granted, and forget that it’s not so obvious for an inexperienced dungeon runner.

So no, the sky is not falling, pugs are not regressing. People run CoF more casually then they use to, but in general pugging is the same as ever – player skill / build is random and the pug meta lags a few months behind the community meta.

I like your perspective. ^^ ty for sharing

Jerus.4350:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I’m not sure. My guess is that these were supposed to be pretty rare items only for people who worked hard to get them (the 250 heirlooms were not a walk in the park by any stretch). But I don’t know. Could have been overlooked.

Quite annoying since they went from being useless(to me) out of combat looks only, to being awesome in combat looks if i’m not mistaken.

I had the heirlooms but passed on it because it simply wasn’t anything I’d use, wasn’t worth the inventory space to me. Now that it can be used in combat that has changed.

Ah yeah that sucks. I figured it was a bug…

No Pulse.2967:

I think he meant zergburgers.

I want me some of those.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

stachekiller.2591:

I actually don’t think this encourages elitism. I think it helps people new to dungeons be forced to learn some mechanics. I went with two casual groups yesterday and cleared the spider queen in about the same time as before with no wipes because we went in together to clear the gargoyles and then people actually saw the spider queen AOE on the ground and dodged out of it. I think this has the potential to make players better overall by forcing them to learn a core mechanic. “Elitists” might try to stick to the old way of doing it and FGS the thing in that corner, but to the credit of the PUGs I played with they adapted quickly and successfully. Once enough people run through it I doubt the elitist mindset your guildie had above will really resonate.

It does nothing BUT encourage elitism
Remember that elitism is not about player skill/experience or wisdom
Elitism is about what you’re wearing, if you can afford it and if you’re using meta

It does nothing BUT encourage elitism
Now in PUGs, you won’t be accepted unless you are using a perfect serk meta in AC
Because people want to complete the dungeon run in 15 minutes, not 45 minutes
No one has time, nor would they want, to dance around The Spider Queen
For 20 to 30 minutes, while wearing Cleric’s gear, before killing it
Especially when considering the grind required to build ascended gear

And again, this is supposed to be the introduction dungeon
The first dungeon in the game, able to be completed with level 35 characters

What’s serk?

I’m not sure. My guess is that these were supposed to be pretty rare items only for people who worked hard to get them (the 250 heirlooms were not a walk in the park by any stretch). But I don’t know. Could have been overlooked.

D: PM sent! Let me know if I should post screens here or elsewhere

Vol.7601:

To me, the forge serves only one purpose – to acquire precursors. No one in their right mind would gamble on the forge for the purposes of finding named exotics.

So I don’t see an increase in named exotics to be of an improvement that Anet would advertise.

The improvements I expected (or still expect) is a way to help balance the RNG aspect of precursors.

For example, for every combination ‘failure’ (no precursor received), you get a token. At a certain # of tokens – let’s say 1000, you can change that in for a guaranteed precursor.

That way, people who are unlucky enough to go on cold streaks end up getting a precursor.

Well I have seen people gamble for delusion since it’s not account bound

Let’s petition to replace malrona fight with vevina.

Would just need to ret-con fyonna Convo after. But really how could fyonna kill vevina.

Taygus.4571:

Nick.6972:

How come you never see females complain in threads like this?

Why do you assume all the posters are male?

Rule 16?

Mesket.5728:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Mesket.5728:

I hope they keep fixing every game encounter so you can no longer stack, skip or trivialize anything. Poop is getting real!

Funny. Spider queen still dead before she poison fields. LOL

LILIZ Y U DO DIS!? STAPH!

Buahahaha

maha.7902:

Cof1 is an example. Cof1 was run constantly for farms, causing players to get very good at the game. A series of nerfs later, and given enough time, all of the players who ran Cof1 frequently have left the game. New players coming in don’t have that rote memorization of the dungeon, so the overall skill declines.

lol. GS mesmers, whirling axe warriors.

Most COF p1 farmers sucked.

axe 5’s at colesy just to make him cringe

Laar.5476:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

My best friend will join us and it will be a triple threat. I saw on Google today they’re finalizing triple donor IVF so if we want kids were golden if they can somehow make one of us a man.

I don’t know if the world is ready for these children.

You’re probably right. Too fashionable.

Laar.5476:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Laar.5476:

Time for more pug related movie quotes!

This forum is afraid of us. I have seen its true face. The dungeon forums are extended gutters and the gutters are full of nerf threads and when the drains finally scab over, all the playhowiwants will drown. The accumulated filth of all their casualism will foam up about their waists and all the clerics and PVTers will look up and shout “Save us!”… and we’ll whisper “no.”

I guess polygamy has to be a thing because I must marry you.

Oh man lesbian polygamy, imagine the conservative outrage.

Glorious

My best friend will join us and it will be a triple threat. I saw on Google today they’re finalizing triple donor IVF so if we want kids were golden if they can somehow make one of us a man.

CuRtoKy.8576:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Look. Anet is just doing what the loud forum majority wanted. When people said “dungeons suck because spider queen” they listened. And when we dungeon forum regulars told them this very change was not a solution they called us dumb elitists. Just like the bloodstone dust nerf. You asked. They delivered.

Yup which shows the people who wanted this change didn’t really understand how dungeons work or the implications of the change.

Yep. Which we also told them.

Lol

Laar.5476:

Time for more pug related movie quotes!

This forum is afraid of us. I have seen its true face. The dungeon forums are extended gutters and the gutters are full of nerf threads and when the drains finally scab over, all the playhowiwants will drown. The accumulated filth of all their casualism will foam up about their waists and all the clerics and PVTers will look up and shout “Save us!”… and we’ll whisper “no.”

I guess polygamy has to be a thing because I must marry you.

Look. Anet is just doing what the loud forum majority wanted. When people said “dungeons suck because spider queen” they listened. And when we dungeon forum regulars told them this very change was not a solution they called us dumb elitists. Just like the bloodstone dust nerf. You asked. They delivered.

Jerus.4350:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Jerus.4350:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Mayhap the player who commented about how fast your group was is one of those players whose accounts have “bad RNG” — except his extends to PuG groups, not just loot drops. :O

Mmm. Maybe. I was also suspicious of him. He said he had been playing for only a few weeks but had 1.7k AP and a guard + warrior at 80. The whole conversation at first seemed fishy. I don’t know.

Sounds about like what I had. Within a month I had a 80 guard and 80 mesmer and probably around that much AP. I played A LOT the first month, now I don’t have as much time.

Interesting. I didn’t play much at first but I didn’t hit 80 until right before the first wintersday. And I started at launch. Lol

Yeah I came from a dying game (dcuo) so I was excited for something new and at the time had plenty of time on my hands (slow time of year at work).

But to get back to the topic.

How many people go into a dungeon expecting it to take 20 mins? 15 mins? 10 mins? What about way back when you started and first were pugging? what was it then?

Personally I expect most to take 10-15 at this point. When I first started a 30 min dungeon seemed fine by me though. Now I’d be tearing my hair out at the 20 min mark.

Yep. I remember when TA up took 30 minutes on a good run. And felt like the guy telling me it could take 20 minutes was an elitist. (Lol me when I was a bhb)

Jerus.4350:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Mayhap the player who commented about how fast your group was is one of those players whose accounts have “bad RNG” — except his extends to PuG groups, not just loot drops. :O

Mmm. Maybe. I was also suspicious of him. He said he had been playing for only a few weeks but had 1.7k AP and a guard + warrior at 80. The whole conversation at first seemed fishy. I don’t know.

Sounds about like what I had. Within a month I had a 80 guard and 80 mesmer and probably around that much AP. I played A LOT the first month, now I don’t have as much time.

Interesting. I didn’t play much at first but I didn’t hit 80 until right before the first wintersday. And I started at launch. Lol

IndigoSundown.5419:

Mayhap the player who commented about how fast your group was is one of those players whose accounts have “bad RNG” — except his extends to PuG groups, not just loot drops. :O

Mmm. Maybe. I was also suspicious of him. He said he had been playing for only a few weeks but had 1.7k AP and a guard + warrior at 80. The whole conversation at first seemed fishy. I don’t know.

We as humans do have a tendency to romanticize the now changed past. But I’m pretty sure it was different.

It’s also used for the Moot which is likely why it requires armor smiting (it’s a weapon ONLY heavies can use)

Xae Isareth.1364:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Rouven.7409:

Shields, I would like to like shields more in this open world environment. There are so many nice shields.

Agree.

I do think changes to pvp skills should not be connected to pve skills (and iirc there are a few differences for balance purposes). But I honestly like where my characters are at in pve at the moment. (I don’t have an engi or necro though at 80)

I like where they are in the sense that they have a few weapons to choose from, but then you look at stuff like dancing dagger, you start wondering why can’t I just replace it with an utility skill. Or you look at how you can’t use half your weapons without being dead weight, then you start seeing the holes.

I guess my Issue with understanding is that I main ele. I use all weapon combos during a fractal, say, and swap my utilities frequently. I haven’t found too many useless options! I’m not really an optimized min/maxer though, I just do what makes me as much of an asset without outright dying (my not so high skill level often requires the utility space of mist form or arcane shield rather than fire signet, for example).

Thief I’m still working on. I don’t really understand the mechanics yet that would make me understand your point. :x

@RS maybe you’re right, but I guess I’m just wondering how a cof p1 could ever fail at this stage in the game.

@Jahroots I like and agree with a lot of your post. I’m also wondering if there has been an increase of new players plus a decrease in old players dungeon pugging. Probably, is my guess, since I have encountered several newbies of late and they’re all at that stage where they want to learn but are scared of being newbs in dungeons. Luckily [Noob] is continually getting the stream of these players whenever I find them, but there are probably far more trying to pug their way and having bad experiences because they don’t know the tactics or what the descriptions mean.

Rouven.7409:

Shields, I would like to like shields more in this open world environment. There are so many nice shields.

Agree.

I do think changes to pvp skills should not be connected to pve skills (and iirc there are a few differences for balance purposes). But I honestly like where my characters are at in pve at the moment. (I don’t have an engi or necro though at 80)

Probably true. I’m grateful to have mine though. I didn’t think it would go down to crazy low levels…. only 2 weeks left of farming it. :/

Good information. So I guess the question is, what is the cause of the decline in quality and attitude in pugs? When I used to pug daily everyone was friendly (back in the gw2lfg days). People were helpful. Most of my best friends in game are met that way. Now the only people I form new relationships with are on the forum or in divinty’s reach while showing off shinies. It’s weird what has happened. Have the players changed? Or are they not the same players now? When did it start to decline?

@Ani’s edit:

2 patches in a row there have been LISTED changes and significant improvements to dungeons and fractals. Based on the length of time each one of these changes take in the computer industry (I work in a similar field) it is apparent that they have at least 1 person entirely dedicated to dungeons or more likely 3-5 working mostly on this while also moonlighting on other content. So you can think what you want. There has been a shift in the past 2 months that says otherwise.

Interesting. I’d love to see some data. Some experimentation. Like AC will be weird for a week or so pug wise, but the rest should be normal. What I’d like to see Is how pug tactics are evolving, or devolving, depending on the dungeon or path.

Anierna.6918:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

This Is important to me because we have something resembling a dungeon team again.

Eh, what? … From which dark corner of impossible did this come from? Unless you think stealth changes = dungeon team…. lol

I believe 2 patches in a row with dungeon changes implies at least 1 person doing dungeon related work. Probably more like 3 or 5 people. Because that’s how It works.

Fellow dungeon runners, it Is time for us to gather the current status of pugging here in Tyria, as it has come to my attention that things have become either worse or have stayed stagnant for the past few months since I shifted to casual status.

Last night, a rare event occurred and I was able to run 3 whole dungeons. After the first, I received a whisper from a person with about 1.7K AP saying that someone told him to contact me so that I could teach him pro speed runner dungeons (because I’m so pro right?) So I journeyed with him and a misfit group of fun players (Me, Sam, Dramen from ARES and our good friend Bright who is no longer with us here on the forums) into TA. We did up and forward with minimal effort. We had hiccups, we weren’t all that speedy, but it was smooth and things went well. The noob could not believe how fast it went (he said something about his cof p1 taking longer) and thought we were all optimized and a “static” group.

Has pugging really gotten this bad? Is cof p1 actually taking longer than it did a month after the cof p1 farm was killed? Have pugs forgotten how to run it? What is happening?

This threads purpose is to catalog and journal the status of pugging. Which dungeons have the highest pug success rate? Have you found that it is harder to find pugs who know what to do, will communicate, etc?

This Is important to me because we have something resembling a dungeon team again. So what exactly is happening here?

Mesket.5728:

I hope they keep fixing every game encounter so you can no longer stack, skip or trivialize anything. Poop is getting real!

Funny. Spider queen still dead before she poison fields. LOL

Alilinke.7690:

I was going for a detective look

Head piece: Reading Glasses
Shoulders: Hidden
Chest Piece: Trickster’s Vest
Gloves: Aurora Gloves
Leggings: Illustrious Breeches
Boots: Winged Boots

Please write me a story with those screens.

Hehe

I did not. And I’d be really concerned if I received an email saying that. Obviously, don’t click any links in it.

If you feel like being ultra safe, after deleting the email, change your Guildwars2 account email to one that is only used for gw2, and change your game password. Just in case. To be safe.

Nick.6972:

How come you never see females complain in threads like this?

Good question. I’m a female but.. I like the choices we have and just want more choices. Skimpy or not skimpy. As long as they’re cool. And dyeable. And not clippy.

I think this item is different from precursors. First of all, it’s a recipe for a back item some people don’t even like. Also, because it’s a recipe, people are weighing two things: do I like the backpiece enough to spend a chunk of gold on the recipe and do I like the backpiece enough to spend a chunk of gold on the materials to make the backpiece. Your average player, unless they absolutely love the piece, probably won’t say yes to both.

Precursors are, as we well know, for legendaries which hold a higher “prestige” (I know people don’t think this, but many more casual players do.). Having precursors more available will tell a casual player “you can have this too!” Which will cause them to buy it. The chaos of lyssa recipe doesn’t have that status.

I would not be making this backpiece if a friend didn’t gift me the recipe. I couldn’t justify the cost of the recipe. But I can justify the materials to make it. But I think this is why John Smith’s precursor doubling economic theory doesn’t really apply here. This item does not hold precursor status. So, price will go down until it reaches, as the others say, a market equilibrium. My guess is that that will be somewhere around 100g during the event and probably 200-400 after. (But I’m no economist so I don’t know what I’m talking about, it makes sense to me though. )

Pandaman.4758:

Hjorje.9453:

HotW troll has the same skills as the AC troll along with the same mechanics. When they did the change, the troll was dropping AC tokens the first few hours till they fixed it. Got quiet a laugh out of that since it just seems they did a copy and paste for him.

They must have undone that fix soon after then, because I started doing dungeons a couple weeks after the troll was buffed (when people were still insisting on melee stacking him) and he dropped AC tokens for at least the month I was doing HotW.

Yeah haha they took a really long time to fix that. Was NOT something they cared about enough for a hot fix.

Dragonite from elites in dungeons please.

trunks.5249:

Kaiser.8504:

Aaaaaand… BINGO!

if it is that easy you would think Anet could do toughs type of changes without to many problems

I’m not sure you get his meaning.

I digress.

Sure upping the range of boons could make ranging more viable but melee weapons and attacks for the most part are always going to have more damage. There has to be a balance there. So melee range is risky but has a high reward. Kiting is not so risky and takes longer. Having a higher boon range would not really change that, but it could be a pretty huge imbalance in wvw or pvp.