Guild Wars 2

My burn ticks 1050.

As a P/P stealthless thief, I would not like to see other X/P / P/X skill re worked at all. P/P thieves realize other weapon sets are better. Maybe unload needs to be re worked or some how buff specifically steathless thieves. But P/P does need something specifically for P/P.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Einlanzer.1627:

Nah they could and should just retool Vital Shot so that it works reasonably well for both sets. Vital Shot is on the weak side even with P/D – the only reason P/D is considered stronger than P/P is due to other factors – like the initiative free supplemental condition damage coming from sources like Caltrops and the Sneak Attack.

What Anet ought to do is give both D/D and P/P their very own full set of 5 skills with new animations that compliments the use of both weapons. This will leave other sets alone to be balanced and tweaked without affecting either D/D and P/P. I know you have noticed that both D/D and P/P are perceived to be the weakest in comparison to other sets, it’s because it share skills with other set that are already perceived to be good sets.

Unless they give both sets their own separate 5 skills set, I’m not optimistic about any changes in the future.

They should give a slight nerf to Sneak Attack, a slight reduction to aftercast for Vital Shot, and a slight buff to its direct damage only. This will make it slightly stronger for P/D, which won’t actually impact much, and significantly stronger for P/P, which will, for the better.

Err, no. Pistol Sneak Attack benefits P/P also. Nerfing that will definitely make P/P nothing but a trash set. Changing a skill for the sake of P/P even though P/D doesn’t need it is not the right path to take here. Anet needs to admit that both D/D and P/P need their own separate 5 skills set.

Not all thieves use stealth. I think my only concern with P/P is the auto attack, maybe 3 could use a slightly better output of damage too though, I think everything else is good with P/P, again I don’t use stealth. Any changes made for stealth or based around stealth does not affect all thieves.

No one said “broke”, its just getting real old watching every one else get shiny new toys that compliment them (over multiple patches), and guardians get burn build option..seems legit. lol

Brando.1374:

Littlefeather.8623:

Brando.1374:

Littlefeather.8623:

A guardian does not have the option to do any one of those in PvP friend, except rush away, but a crippled/chilled guardian with a few K HP trying to run away from a Necro is not going to happen. This is just one situation, but I hope you get the idea.

a bunker guard should be able to stalemate a condi class. Not necessarily win but he wont die.

Not every guardian is a Bunker, and not every guardian wants to be support. I guess if Im a guardian I either choose bunker or support…seems legit

it actually is legit. you need to choose your build and know your weakness. a condi necro has limited access to stab and only a few stun breaks on 50+s cd. we are very easy to stun lock and shut down.

so it all about what you choose to do with your class.

I should not have brought Necro into this thread. My only point is there is not a lot of incentive to have high toughness in the world of Condi damage. There is an incentive to have high HP though. Unfortunately some classes do not have high HP.

Brando.1374:

Littlefeather.8623:

A guardian does not have the option to do any one of those in PvP friend, except rush away, but a crippled/chilled guardian with a few K HP trying to run away from a Necro is not going to happen. This is just one situation, but I hope you get the idea.

a bunker guard should be able to stalemate a condi class. Not necessarily win but he wont die.

Not every guardian is a Bunker, and not every guardian wants to be support. I guess if Im a guardian I either choose bunker or support…seems legit

I understand that most people would be appalled if there was actual Condition defense, I have brought this up before a very long time ago and got blasted, the same way I get blasted with Condi’s while I try to solo roam or PvP 1v1. Just my two cents that GW2 should introduce Condition defense.

A guardian does not have the option to do any one of those in PvP friend, except rush away, but a crippled/chilled guardian with a few K HP trying to run away from a Necro is not going to happen. This is just one situation, but I hope you get the idea.

Keira Ferland.5619:

condi clear and hp counter condi dmg what r u talking about no counters

Condi clears are not even across the board my friend, some classes have more than others, and HP is not even across the board either. That is what I am talking about.

Brando.1374:

Littlefeather.8623:

It has been the case since Necro’s starting getting buffed. Theres no defense against Condi, literally speaking. In most MMO’s I’ve played, there’s been Physical Attack and Magical Attack, Physical Defense, and Magical Defense.

But in GW2, It’s Power and Condi / Toughness and Vitality. Which makes sense, this leaves classes with low HP high Toughness weaker to Condi and Lower Toughness and higher HP stronger to Condi. But this is not how it’s played out in GW2. What I find is condi clears are a must have, forcing people to choose or sacrifice. Some classes have condi clears in weapon skills, those are great and some classes do not, those are not great.

Moral of my post is there should be Condi defense, just like there is Physical defense, that way low HP high toughness classes can defend against condi while still being viable to solo the condi player.

“It has been the case since Necro’s starting getting buffed.”

the only “buff” to necro’s was dumbfire, which lead to several necro skills being nerfed and ultimately dumbfire was also nerfed.

so please tell me about those buffs.

I apologize if it seemed I made an attack about Necros, that was not my point though. This game has lacked a real defense against Condis though, it did not start creeping its head until Necro / Condi Meta starting taking over.

My point is though that there is a defense against Physical damage, but why not Condi damage? Some classes honestly do not offer enough condi clears. And then there is the argument about foods/sigils/runes. Thats great, but why should a physical attack player be pigeoned into using those when the Condi players do not have to due to their high Vit/Toughness/weapon/skill condi clears?

Thats a question I have always had…

It has been the case since Necro’s starting getting buffed. Theres no defense against Condi, literally speaking. In most MMO’s I’ve played, there’s been Physical Attack and Magical Attack, Physical Defense, and Magical Defense.

But in GW2, It’s Power and Condi / Toughness and Vitality. Which makes sense, this leaves classes with low HP high Toughness weaker to Condi and Lower Toughness and higher HP stronger to Condi. But this is not how it’s played out in GW2. What I find is condi clears are a must have, forcing people to choose or sacrifice. Some classes have condi clears in weapon skills, those are great and some classes do not, those are not great.

Moral of my post is there should be Condi defense, just like there is Physical defense, that way low HP high toughness classes can defend against condi while still being viable to solo the condi player.

If I want to kill peopl, I get on my thief, If I want to PvE I get on my zerk warrior, If I want to kill in WvW I get on my Necro If the rare occasion I want to support in WvW I get on my guardian. It’s (Okay) I guess, but Its not the mindset I came to GW2 with.

Carighan.6758:

Littlefeather.8623:

Not every guardian likes support roles…

Roles. Sure.
But “support-y” feeling? Come on, if you didn’t roll Guardian to feel exactly that way whatever you’re doing, why did you roll it then? Even their class mechanic is quite a bit about group support.

When this game came out, I was under the impression that I can build my character any way I want. I chose guardian, as before GW2 I have played Tank/Knight classes in 6 different MMO’s for over 12 years. I never ever felt any inclination to be a support at all. And according to GW2 pre beta, I should not have to.

Not every guardian likes support roles…

If it was not for unload, there would be no reason to go P/P tbh.

Come to think about it, that auto attack skill might be handy in the near future. If it looks like I might be going back to the nerfed perplexities, not sure yet. I’m content on where it’s at for the most part, but it would be cool to have some thief buffs here and there not focused around stealth is all I guess.

Stealth is good, it’s nice, but not needed. i’m not sure how he plays his but I can withdraw, roll for initiative and shadow step. And if traited have two dodge rolls and gain 3 seconds (I think) on dodge. All of that with the shortbow #5, I’d rather have that than stealth any day, but that might just be me.

I actually love the weapon setup honestly, the only thing lacking is the auto attack. While when I did play around with D/D, the auto attack is mostly what I spammed lol, ofcourse the other’s were good too though. I do love all the weapon skills except for #1 though, not fitting for Power based build at all.

^
This is true…lol

But it would be nice if there were more thief buffs not centered around stealth.

Yea P/P thieves mostly find our selves spamming 3 all day, not a complain but the reality and practical application of the weapon skills. Sometimes 2 is good in situations we love the option too, and 4. Yea I agree the autoattack is pretty weak because most P/P thieves are not condition based. When the perplexity runes first came out I loved it because it actually allowed us to play Dire on P/P and kill, giving us the defense needed sometimes to outlast an opponent. But after the perplexity nerf had to go back to full zerk, now it’s worse than before after this last patch.

I think the auto attack is weak for the build though, but I do like every other weapon skill. They do fit some situations perfectly, I would not like them to change except #1.

Not sure how to approach it honestly, just seems lackluster in comparison to other popular builds. Maybe endurance procs? Maybe initiative procs? Maybe more passive initiative in traits for P/P duel wield?

When I went to thief I wanted to do something different with it, I like P/P it is very fun. However those few of us who actually play P/P thieves know there are more powerful builds for thieves. Obviously it doesn’t bother us so much but I’m just curious as to why the P/P build has been untouched for a while specifically. I know there has been plenty of changes to thieves in general, mostly involving around stealth. My P/P is built around mobility, speed and range DPS, which stealth does not compliment so I am stealthless.

This is not a complain, I love P/P thief but with other builds being complimented more and more it’s not easy to sit and look at every one else eat lol. Kind of complacent at being fully aware that other thief builds are just more powerful when done right. That’s not the issue, I can still 1v1 pretty decently just because I’m so used to the flow of my build. Hence I would not like a drastic change if any, but something a little more shiny maybe? With crit being nerfed a bit, it kinda put’s P/P builds in a worse spot than before, which honestly…P/P thieves are laughed at most of the time, maybe it because not many exist or maybe most know cookie cutter builds are there for a reason. I don’t know, anyhow happy hunting.

I guess my question is why no love for stealthless P/P thieves

I doubt people are likely to reply as we P/P thieves are like 1%’ers or thieves in GW2 lol.

PvP shouldnt be about who can cap the most points, it should be about PvP. I completely agree with OP, this isnt PvP; this is like capture the flag where you dont have to be good at PvP, but you do have to capture points…Lame.

Personaly I would love 1v1 Tourney’s, it would really narrow down skill and technique. Something the current boards and rankings dont really tell about, its one thing to have a really good 1v1 fight between two different players which purely relies on skill. Over fighting 1v1 than some other numbers come in and start helping or hindering, this takes away the actual skill that most players need to get better. If there was a 1v1 Tourney mode, I would never have a reason to do Solo Que again, by all means yall can have the zerging and doubelteaming. I would be completly satisfied by knowing how good or bad I am without help or hinderence.

Gorni.1764:

Littlefeather.8623:

1v1 Tourney’s. Loose once you’re out, win, keep going.

seriously I don’t want to join a 1v1 tourney just to face fotm-class after fotm-class or some bunker-trolls… 1v1 is so ridiculously unbalanced, please don’t even consider making a new game-mode revolving around it. Just add duels or something.
What I’d love to see is either a classic capture the flag or maybe a 3v3 team deathmatch.

FOTM builds are only prevalent with node/team modes.

Leaaderboards and rankings are so skewed and conflicted that I would like to actually see real skill boards, not boards that rely on team play but rather individual player skill.

Let theives have rifles with 30k killshots

1v1 Tourney’s. Loose once you’re out, win, keep going.

Oh yea a math rating system, yea its bunk, but in reality it means nothing anymore on the leaderboards

means nothing………

ANET needs to reset every one to zero, make them exploit again, at least it will make them work hard

Brando.1374:

Littlefeather.8623:

My personal TPvP rules:

Always back cap
Never fight outnumbered

so try not to fight players unless you have even numbers or you outnumber the other players, got it.

Its not outnumber but, Im not going to jump in front of two opposing players, thats what I mean. I will train down 1 player, but I will not try to fight against two players. Dont rely on your team mates to come helpd you, you have lvl 2 nuubs going TPvP.

I loved guardian in Power Meta, now it just collects dust on the shelf due to everything thats happened, to top it off, ANET seems to push it even more to support roles..

I didnt make a gaurdian to fill a support role.

You think match making is imbalanced? lol, thats just the tip, You ever heard of syncing que? yea thats something ANET will not comment on because I guess it just cant be fixed.

Premade In Voice channel vs Solo Que players…

I dont even communicate with the team, some are nuubs, some arent, but it doesnt matter because every one has their own game plan anyway. I know I do my best and If my team for that matched sucked than so be it.

My personal TPvP rules:

Always back cap
Never fight outnumbered

Super Riceman.8702:

(Thief Wish List)

Pistol Whip: allow rotation while rooted

(I dont even know what this means)

Heart Seeker: Change its dmg scaling so that increases the farther you are from the target when you cast, scaling from 600 to 130

This would make it not reward spamming like it does now, it would be good when entering a fight, chasing a target or when switching targets. Would not be superior strategy spamming against a slow target over and over and over and over and over and over again

Vital Shot: Increase power scaling, move the bleeding from this skill to each attack on Unload

The power dmg is made useless because there is an easily apply able bleed. If its moved to unload, that skill might be worth it and the power scaling could be buffed on the aa

(this would make P/P theives only usefull skill Unload more so than it already is, bad enough P/P only two viable skills are 3 and 5.)

Haste: No negative effect if used while below 50% hp

Spider Venom: Also transfer a condition on next 5 attacks

Venoms cannot deal with conditions on the user and this would be away to do that, buffing Venom sharing and support thieves

Unload: Make it bleed on each attack, give reflection for 1s

Scorpion Wire: Make it pierce, switch pull to knockback (only pvp obcourse)

This gives thieves a way to get people off of point besides damage, making them better at defending points on their own

Ice Drake Venom: Make it give 4s stability, affect allies if you have Venomous Aura

(No ty, I like my chill on enemies)

If there are other sources for groups stability, someday there may be teams without guardians.

Hard to Catch: Regain initiative when you are disabled(cd 10s)

(No TY, theives trait into that for the current effect)

Ricochet: Make pistol skills pierce

(No TY, as this is the only AoE for P/P)

on the off-chance that a shot bounces, it probably won’t help

Larcenous Strike: Change to stealing up to two boons depending on # of non-auto attacks dodged with flanking strike, 0=0boons/1=1 boon/2 or more=2 boons

Lowering just the # only encourages more spamming to make up for the nerf, this would reward skilled use and timing just like venerable Colonel Radec

jmatb.6307:

No offense man, but that is the most politically naive thing I’ve read in a while.

Every one is making this a big deal like its the end of the world, I can be dramatic too.

My points are simple, fair and impartial is best policy for any organization.

It is terrible, any compitent systems analyst with forethought would have fixed this a long time ago unless this goes against some kind of policy.

Every one payed their 60 bucks just like every one else. = Every one has a right to provide input to this game.

Why should we let a handfull of people decide how this game is? Because they know better? Every single person is partial to their favored class, why would I listen to any one who wants to provide input when their personal opinions are not completley impartial. GW2 recieved my money for this game therefore GW2 can decide how it is balanced, and having an open ear to every one invloved is the only way it is fair and impartial. We live in a democracy, not communist society, we practice free market/religion/ and equality, Id like to keep it that way.

Let me be the one to let some of you in on a little secret. There is no big lie, there is no conspiracy, there is no big secret. The world is indifferent.

Forte.3149:

Littlefeather.8623:

You’re not bad at theif just because some one may have said so. I love P/P for various reasons, the main reason is its not cookie cutter. You look at 99% of all other theives their all running the same 3-4 builds. This is unique, not popular, and people dont know what to do when they see it either.

I love the range/kite/evade abilities. I can escape a zerg on demand, pick off stragglers at a safe distance, 1v1 with gingerbread man mobility. Good luck to you, sorry I wont comment on build, I run my own, its probably not the most potential because I dont watch youtube vids or research google for my builds. But it works great for me, good luck in your endevaors.

even if you dont like it, id love to look at it and glean off what i can learn from it!

Oh, I love it, but its like a hidden tresure to me lol.

You dont have to guest or transfer, so what if your server will not win matches. Find a WvW focused guild and run with them when they run, I did this, which eventually lead to me repping them after a while. If you can hop in mumble/TS, this is the best way to L2WvW.

You’re not bad at theif just because some one may have said so. I love P/P for various reasons, the main reason is its not cookie cutter. You look at 99% of all other theives their all running the same 3-4 builds. This is unique, not popular, and people dont know what to do when they see it either.

I love the range/kite/evade abilities. I can escape a zerg on demand, pick off stragglers at a safe distance, 1v1 with gingerbread man mobility. Good luck to you, sorry I wont comment on build, I run my own, its probably not the most potential because I dont watch youtube vids or research google for my builds. But it works great for me, good luck in your endevaors.

slsharpshooter.5631:

Evilek.5690:

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

Ryan.9387:

Why don’t you give us more info, like your build, skills you saw on the thief, and a larger view of the damage log. Just showing us two numbera isn’t particularly helpful unless you made this thread to complain rather than to get an answer.

Just warrior in bunker build with lot of toughness. If thief can stab for 9k me, how it’s should damage to berserkers? Bers ele have like 12k hp, he should die instantly.

Man come hit me bunker warrior in sPvP for 9k and i give you 200g
Bunker warrior has armor 3800+,9k BS is impossible.

If you think 3800 armor is a lot I can achieve 4116 noob cake

With 200 Attack Power?…lol

Relentliss.2170:

The 0/15/30/20/5 is a pretty classic build and can be changed up through gear to suit most tasks.

I am not sure about the guy dissing dps guardians. It certainly helps to learn the class by playimg beserker guardian in spvp… I can probably beat 2/3 thieves as they underestimate your damage. I haven’t had as much experience on one in WvW, generally I go as tanky as possible.

I have never lost to a zerker guardian in WvW, not as full PVT with 3.8k Attack, 3.4k Armor and 18k HP. I solo’d a golem on it and recently an Omega Golem on my theif…

But nevermind that, my point is you can be the best DPS in the game, but if you are laying on the ground you cant do any DPS at all.

Yes I can confirm Steal, does not always steal but does always go on CD.

fugazi.5139:

SuperHaze.4210:

fugazi.5139:

but…it’s hotjoin…who care…it’s not competitive.

Although true, I feel it makes the initial PVP experience for noobs really frustrating.

And this right here…comes back to the fact (DEVS IF YOU ARE OUT THERE???)
We need arenas for different ranks.
You would have to make like
r1-r10/15 arena
r15/20-r30 arena
and so on and on…
Or at least until rank 20/25. Then put people in with the masses.
But to just put people that are r1 out there to survive goes against their basic rule of making the PvP playable for everyone of all PvP skill. Kind of counter productive. IMO!!!

This is a good idea, and it should apply to TPvP solo que as well.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I want to see Eles made into bunkers that are comparable to Guardians. That class has dominated the mid bunker role since launch and it would be nice to see another class being able to do the same thing in a different way.

lol.

You ever seen
Bunker Engi?
Bunker Ranger?
Bunker Necro?
Bunker Warrior?

Sensotix.4106:

Littlefeather.8623:

If any one of those guys in “Top Teams” cant solo me than what makes them a top player?

Senso, you keep making these posts without hardline evidence backing your claims up. You justify “Top Teams” and yourself even, yet I bet any one of them can not solo what you would call “mediocre” players. Im more than willing to proove it aswell. Too many times have I played a match where solo que teams have stomped the team I was on, where I have downed or was beating some one solo on a point only to have their team mate help them get the spike on me. I dont equate those players being good, I do equate those players as being a good team though. My point is if your only justification for being “top” only comprises of a good/great team, what does that mean when their solo? Does that put them in the 90%? and 10%> only with their team?

Back on topic though, as you can see you will have some impressionable fan boys, but majority of people are well aware that their free to think for theirselves.

Edit: I apologize If i come off as rude, but you seem young. I want to let you know that their are a lot of players who have been playing MMO’s probably since you were in diapers. Not trying to be funny, but the amount of experience you think you have in one aspect of one game does not equate to the amount of experience other players have in multiple aspects of multiple games before you picked up your first controller.

Your opinions are valued, just like every one else’s should be.

i really appreciate your feedback!
and i have to admit i used the wrong words and i think it most people dont get what i mean and i am sorry for that
i will try to clarify this in my video which will hopefully be finished soon
and i know some people got mad at me but i think its mainly because i failed using the right words and i dont really know how to put it

I apologize If I come off as rude before. One thing to keep in mind though, in every aspect of everything, is if you need to communicate to a very large group you should word things where it appeals to every one from any culture/religion/political backgroun/etc. Most people prefer numbers and charts, but if you can get by with at least testimonials or examples that may be good enough, because lets face it; GW2 PvP ranking/etc is not easy to disect and put into numbers and categories we are all agreeing on.

If you p/p, dont use stealth as it just limits your evade potential. With withdraw, ROI, 3 dodge rolls and shadow step your the gingerbread man, especially with 25% swiftness passive. Most theives cant fathom a build without a dagger or stealth, I prefer to think outside the box myself.

If any one of those guys in “Top Teams” cant solo me than what makes them a top player?

Senso, you keep making these posts without hardline evidence backing your claims up. You justify “Top Teams” and yourself even, yet I bet any one of them can not solo what you would call “mediocre” players. Im more than willing to proove it aswell. Too many times have I played a match where solo que teams have stomped the team I was on, where I have downed or was beating some one solo on a point only to have their team mate help them get the spike on me. I dont equate those players being good, I do equate those players as being a good team though. My point is if your only justification for being “top” only comprises of a good/great team, what does that mean when their solo? Does that put them in the 90%? and 10%> only with their team?

Back on topic though, as you can see you will have some impressionable fan boys, but majority of people are well aware that their free to think for theirselves.

Edit: I apologize If i come off as rude, but you seem young. I want to let you know that their are a lot of players who have been playing MMO’s probably since you were in diapers. Not trying to be funny, but the amount of experience you think you have in one aspect of one game does not equate to the amount of experience other players have in multiple aspects of multiple games before you picked up your first controller.

Your opinions are valued, just like every one else’s should be.