Guild Wars 2

Yeah please make the revenant a stupid button smashing gameplay … We have not enough heavy easymode classes

/irony off

Really there was enough discussion on this forums if you are not able to handle the energy mechanic play something easier!! Revenant is finally the only heavy profession that requires a higher skill level to handle and this is great.

Stop trying to make the rev a noob profession and learn that the skills are not intended to be smashed on CD – we are no warriors and we don’t want to be ones.

TY Roy – it is a great feeling to see how active you are here in the forums and that you listen to the commiunity to make the Rev realy awesome Its obvious that the recent changes came right out of the commiunity and this is just how it has to be done – you and your team are doing a great job and im happy to be 100% sure to main a Rev as soon as it releases

But i still have 2 cents to add for the Base-Revenant

1) Revenant needs more access to Condi-cleanse – Shiro coud do it on Riposting Shadows e.g. (Ventari and Jalis are ok i think)

2) Mallyx (please love him as much as you love Shiro / Glint)
This is a bigger topic imho – the whiole system works nice on paper but feels extremey lackluster in actual gameplay

a) you can suck up minutes of Cripple and insane amounts of burning and poison (jeez i got over 90seconds of cripple during the Event where you dig the Wyvern eggs in Verdant Brink from my group … with no chance to clean it cuz i ran Mallyx Shiro – there is NO way to handle this large amount with resistance)

b) in organized groups it feels the other way – condis are cleansed realy quick what makes the whole +dmg per condi and the +turment stuff pretty useless

c) no condi clean if running alone – mallyx shall be stronger with conditions thats the base idea .. he shall play with them and your foe should regret applying them to you … but at the end of the day the Condition Master Mallyx has no way to cean himself…
Skills like Banish Enchantment or Embrace the Darkness coud solve this. Also all things where we find “copy conditions” could be “transfer conditions”

To adress the idea of “more condis make me stronger” every applied condition should apply a boon stack (best with the same duration as the applied condition) – revenant skills now calculate their stuff based on that boon instead of the condition itself (this also enables good counterplay as this boon could be ripped off)

3) swiftness (lets be honest – nothing kills the fun of exploring more than waking around in slow motion)

regardless of glint (as i just talk about the base rev) we still need more access to OOC swiftness imho – some simple trait in invocation pls – i would totally sacrafice the “take less falling damage” thing for a speed increase

4) forceful engagement is imho still too expensive to be useful (and too short in PvE)- i think 35 energy are enough

5) was the 10sec cd on Legend swap OOC neccesary? – pllease give us access to viable swiftness and no one would spamm the IO -> swap swap -> IO Rotation as it makes us heavily weak for surprise attacks

6) Energy – PLEASE let us keep our current energy on Legend Swap if we have more than 50. To gain a good stable Energy pool >50 we need to start slow into combat – this point should not be ruined if we need to swap legends.

7) ventari tablet – it REALLY needs to be casted isntantly on Legend Swap to Ventari … all utils need this tablet so there is no reason to not summon it on legend swap

Thats it

Im looking forward for the next iteration and also for playing the Herald and could not honor you and your whole team enough for your hard great work ;D

Thorquist.8126:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

It was too punishing to be locked into a skill where you had no control over your character.

Rangers with sword say ‘hi’.

Haha xD im sure every ranger died at least once on the high ways in the dredge caves ;D (i failed way too often with that skill)

META here we come
LFG Rev/Guard/Ele/Warr/Mes

Roy you and your Team are GREAT !

i would just love to see that the energy stays the same if we are above 50 on Legend swap.

DiogoSilva.7089:

What I think is best:

1. Either an evade to give this skill a defensive niche (like blurred frenzy);
2. Or CC immunity and either more damage or cleaving to make this skill not useless when against 2+ targets.

I prefer my second suggestion

why? thats the last thing this skill needs – it needs damage protection and no CC protection.
The problem is that you die during the skill and not that you maybe Hammer#F1 out of it – this would just stun you and you’ll be able to counterplay the stun for your own.

@Roy: why did upkeeps have initial energy costs? this prevents heavily from using them just for that particular situation you need them – good timing should not be punished imho

Same with the aftercast CD after enable / disable of the upkeepskill (do we want to call upkeep skills “uks” ?) – imo activating and deactivation should not be restricted or punished – the upkeep cost are high enough i think

uhohhotdog.3598:

Kidel.2057:

skowcia.8257:

To bring revenant on par with other classes he needs 5 utility per legend 4×5=20. I dont think we should be looking at elite skills for other classes as they will come eventually, espesially after specialization changes when all of them got a category.

Oh come on. Quality>quantity

But they’re not quality. Not for each type of game play. Some are useful in some parts of the game but useless in others.

^this – utils can never be useful in EVERY Situation thats clear – but without at least a little choice you always run around with multiple utils you actually dont want to have and also dont use

i dont need a displacement on tequatl and no Ventari shield if my foes dont shoot projectiles

Ventari:
AoE roots / Slow field
tablet charge with stun / daze (target locked of course)

Jalis:
Stone Wall that blocks / reflects projectiles
Stomp that creates weakness and gives protection

Shiro:
Spin2Win – shake off some conditions – doing damage – whirl finisher
doppelganger – create 2 clones around the enemy (triangle pattern)- change position with one of them – they act exactly like you – dont do damage – they all got destroyed as soon as one of them is hit or after 3 seconds

Mallyx:
demonic overload – you explode and spread your conditions to nearby foes
giving resistance to allies
demonic charge – charge to your target – cousing cripple and torment on hit

frayon.3984:

I would love to see this. After the first beta weekend I found I really want to main a revenant but I also don’t want to spoil the experience of leveling one by having the level to 20 birthday booster + 60 tomes of knowledge just to level him so I can play him day one of HoT at level 80. If we get early access to the class outside of betas that would be amazing. Will it happen? Most likely not. I’ve seen early access to the over all game done before in MMOs but never done just for a class. It’s rather sad, but true.

i would still insta 80 him cuz you have the whole tyria map unexplored and can use it to level your Pact Masteries.

But i would LOVE to see a Rev early access though :-/

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Manifibel.8420:

Oh it works Jekkt! Revenant was the profession I spend the most time on this BWE1, and it did very well, much better than last time [:
It needs balancing ofc, like every other professions does, and it will always be like that. I would like to see something really focused on defense like Endure Pain or Renewd Focus.

There will be some changes to jalis to push it more towards being ‘tanky’.

GREEEEEEEEEAT – this definitively needs to be done

but plz dont forget making mallyx also a Condi-player class. The current system works pretty well on paper but not in group situations. -> it needs to be some kind of “Conditions?? hahaha ROLFZ!!!!oneoneeleven take back your kitten … and thanks for making me stronger” imo

Dstroya.6705:

Kidel.2057:

Lol, been using Superior Rune of Rage and Invocation traits. Was easy to keep 100% Fury uptime, expecially with 2 healing skills. No problem reaching 40+ seconds of Fury, ending just in time for another heal.

Of course you can achieve that if you keep using Scholar runes, but I think that creative builds are always better.

I used Runes of Rage too. There were no problems keeping fury up an entire battle.

Same here – in most PvE Situations this may be a point – but i doubt that we will get the same uptime in high fractals where we are one hit wonder as we need to take some hits to trigger our fury. – i think some additional source of fury is still needed (maybe like mesmers and their <75% health thingy)

Griffith.7238:

I love the exaggerated 5 Phase Traversals and 2 Jade Winds in row you guys really pull this kitten out of your kitten haha. It’s possible to do that now removing energy from weapon skills isn’t going to make it more possible. Rev’s as they are now can’t survive long enough without using a utility to pool 100 energy unless they are being completely ignored in which case the Rev in its current state could do these things just as easily. You guys crack me up.

… you don’t see the difference between nuking the kitten out of your utillities and beeing unable to do anything after that and nuking the kitten out of your utillities and beeing still able to run your whole rotation without thinking 1 second about it?

so actually you want a warrior with 2 util bars and no cooldown on utils ..

Griffith.7238:

Rev’s as they are now can’t survive long enough without using a utility to pool 100

1) YOU maybe can’t survive without spamming utils
2) if you feel that way it must be the fault of the energy cost on weapons …. sure this has NOTHING to do with maybe a lack of combat buffs like protection and vigor or maybe a lack of ways to regain some energy for doing something (e.g. on Block or dodge)

Griffith.7238:

You guys crack me up.

thanks

uhohhotdog.3598:

This is why each legend should have more utility options instead of forcing us into what they want for skills

yep – i dont want a phase traversal if i play hammer (i will NEVER use it) as well as i dont want to take the Ventari Shield to Enemies that dont use any projectiles

Nobody needs a choice of X utils for rev. but being able to choose 3 of 5 possible ones per Legend would be enough to compensate the most issues.

Kicker.8203:

They should add like 2 more utilities to each legend and done

^This – Utils that still fit the legend’s theme but offer a little different playstyle.
so Shiro dont need more mobility but maybe some evasion without moving while mallyx can get some Torment / burning Aura or AoE Field.

/sign

i see both lacks (Vs DPS and Vs Condi) in the lack of Jalis and Mallyx atm.

As i said in some other post – Jalis and Mallyx need both more love. Jalis as survivor tanky guy and mallyx as Condi-guy

both legends feel pretty undone and dont do their job well atm. Jalis needs stuff to protect himselfagainst dps while mallyx should make you hard to fight with condis. (we need TRANSFER conditions… not Copy)

but thats why Betas exist and im happy that we’re allowed to play and to give feedback

Griffith.7238:

Teutos.8620:

My suggestion: Remove the energy cost from the weapon skills.

This change doesn’t ruin the classes individuality as some may think

it would.

The only thing you would think about is when you stop your IO to keep enough energy to maybe evade backwards while you’ll spam your rotation.
WIthout the constant energy sink of the weaponskills our energy would regenerate so kitten fast the utils HAVE to get more expensive and nothing would change at all.

i mean without any cost changes it would be : "yay … 5 Phase Traversal in a row if i dont use IO "… great balance.

Talk about reducing upkeep Costs or the most important thing imho: about getting rid of the initial energy cost when activation an upkeep as well as the cooldown on Enable and Disable and maybe the possibility to actively REGAIN Energy aside from Legendswap

for example:
Sword 4 could regenerate energy if it didnt block anything
sword 3 if all 7 hits hit
hammer 4 on every blocked projectile
Hammer 2 for every hit foe beneath max range
…

jut be more creative than simply “remove that stuff” – if you want to adress energy problems adress them at their base → costs too high + energy gain too low —> there are many cool ways to adress that – dont choose the most stupid one.

Revenant is the only heavy class with a more complex gameplay … and so shall it be

Kastiel.1947:

Can people stop saying Revs have 12 utility skills ? As of now they have 20 with 10 being active at a time , and with Glint coming this week that’s gonna be 25 with 10 selectable at a time – a pretty good selection , even if they are locked in too sets(legends) of 5 ( which I find enjoyable for differention sake). Other classes must also lockin 5 utilities at a time , but they can choose which ones, we can’t hence we get 10 – simple, fun, fair and different . So please once , just once be cool and stop nagging. Also saw a post bout this , but please don’t remove the bright green from Shiro quickness – IMO looks sweet

Skill #6 and #0 are Healing and Elite and no utilities - if you count that way you also have to count the heals and elites of other classes to compare

the problem is that you’re stuck with utils that you don’t need in the situation you’re in or with the gameplay you choose (and this for ALL Legends) . I Don’t need a shadowstep to target if i run hammer as well as Jade winds in any PvE Situation also i don’t need a ventari shield in CoE or a Displacement in CoF -> just some examples

The Rev coult totally need 2 additional skills per legend – the main idea is still the same but you still can customize your utils for your gameplay and for the current situation.
You shall not be able to choose what you want like all classes – but at least a little bit of tweaking should be possible.

Dstroya.6705:

I think if they don’t add an evade to the skill, then its damage needs to be increased to close to Hundred Blades level. Especially since we cannot cancel/dodge out of it one we start it.

I Think the dmg should already be increased – at least in AoE Situations where we Jump to multiple targets. (A Cleave effect or sth like the AA with the exploding Rift could totally fit in to handle this)

but Sword #3 definitively needs an Evade – DMG doesnt help you against your foes actions. As you cant interrupt it you’re probably dead against a whirling Guard (PVP) or a exploding mushroom (PvE).

Griffith.7238:

I was more referring to the abilities that do damage on the Guard’s GS aka Whirling Wrath and Symbol of Wrath both of which have lower cds then Rev Swords primary damage output abilities.

IO is the only Upkeep that I agree would be a little insane to have 100% uptime.

I don’t really know which aspect of the game you are referring to PvE or PvP ,but since you could literally cast Frigid Blitz and Unrelenting Assault and kill just about every non vet mob in Verdant Brink I figured it was clear that I wasn’t referring to PvE. Clearly you wouldn’t have to worry about running out of energy in a fight that doesn’t last but maybe 2 abilities.

nah it doesnt work that way – you jcan’t just compare DPS stuff without seeing the utility effect. And a Symbol is not worth an 2s block imho – depends maybe on situation and gamemode

I Mainly talked about PvE but also in PvP you won’t run out of energy if you know your stuff and dont panic – your 1 is still your main dps thingy

In PvP it is definitively harder (as for every class mostly)as it has its own problems that result in a lack of Jalis and Mallyx imho – you dont have enough eaccess to evade stuff as well as protection or invis or a lot mobility while in combat and mallyx should be your anti-condi thing but isnt atm.

he has simply a little ag in stuff that saves his kitten while he is regenerating from his last attacks (like thieves Invis / Warriors mobility etc)

Griffith.7238:

The Revenant could never be as faceroll as a Warrior because at the end of the day the Warrior does not have to manage a resource at all. We would still need to manage energy yet we would actually have some of it to manage unlike now where we get to use 1 utility a fight if we still want to do some damage.

so we’re just talking about numbers again … nothing but numbers and i dont know how you played but i was able to perform my DPS and still have energy to use utilities if i needed them

Dont forget you have your utils there all the time – and not like other classes all time use in X – Y Seconds

Griffith.7238:

“their use is to create a huge benefit for a short time period. " Oh really I was unaware that Vengeful Hammers provided a “huge” benefit over a short period of time.

don’t bring Jalis into that – we all know that the whole legend is not round atm. If VH would block projectiles or give protection or whatever we would have a huge benefit.

IO as well as Ventari Shield as well as Mallyx Elite ARE pretty strong and huge benefits – also keep in mind that they have no CD (ventari shield has – nobody knows why) and can be used on demand exactly when you need them and are not there for X seconds and are then on CD forever.

Griffith.7238:

Oh and shorter cooldowns like what?! A Medi DPS Guard’s entire GS combo is on a shorter cd then Rev’s.

4;10;15;20 vs 10:15:20:30 – even traited is your argument invalid. – and to be fair you should compare the same skill types (20s for a pull interrupt as well as 15 on a 2s block is just nice)

And skills like Duelist’s Preparation and Unrelenting Assault have animations that are long enough to regain the used energy.

Griffith.7238:

The very word UPKEEP destroys your logic if they weren’t meant to be used over a long period then they should of just called them “toggle on then immediately toggle back off” gg….

you can, if you want to – or you can learn the class and use IO in situations where you benefit the most. (Hammer 5 ; Sword 3; …)
jeez IO is haste on demand – you really think this is intended to be hold up forever while spamming your Weapon Rota??

Again we can talk about numbers – i dont see a reason why for example IO should have initial energy cost / and why the ventari shield should have kitten cd but its fact that the energy cost on weapons is needed as energy drain otherwise the whole mechanic would be stupid “hey i have all my stuff on demand and dont need to waste time in thinking when and what to use and im so bored that i now nuke out impossible odds”

Griffith.7238:

That’s all fine and dandy ,but with energy regen/costs in it’s current state you aren’t going to have anything ready when you need it unless you spend most of your time just auto attacking.

im not sure if we played the same class …

Griffith.7238:

I think the best solution here is to remove the energy cost on weapon skills. As it stands right now you currently can’t do anything but auto attack with an upkeep skill running anyway.

But instead of talking about energy costs and things like aftercast on Upkeeps you want to remove energy from Weapons to make the Rev a Faceroll Warrior 2.0 with a simple rotation?

Upkeeps arent intened to be up for a long time – their use is to create a huge benefit for a short time period or a sigthly longer time if you dont use anything else beside AA

there is stuff where energy needs to be reduced (mostly utilities) but not removed (aside from healing skills – im ok if the energy is removed on them)
Rev has shorter CDs on its skills because of the energy usage the whole class plays around the energy management.

Kidel.2057:

Change the title in “Lower Energy cost”. Shiro is almost fine, Jalis has a 50 energy taunt (come on, Jade Winds has the same cost but is many times stronger)

^this !

Shiro is pretty fine (when Phase Traversal gets a “no valid path to target” check)
But impossible odds should get rid of the initial energy cost

But Jalis .. cmon 50 energy for a taunt that doesnt even heavily hurt a defiance bar? no way

• Will there be an interface (LFG Tool?) where i can see players of my language who are willing to help as well as ppl who need help?

• will the “helpers” be rated by the “helped” – some kind of Star system to nuke out trolls?- btw what are ways to prevent trolls and scamers?

• Will new Players be notified via a popup or whatever that they can get help by a veteran?

• Can you define specific aspects where you are willing to help? (Open world / Dungeons / WvW / PvP / Classes ..etc?)

• are there rewards for helping people ?

• how long are you able to help someone? (if there are rewards and stuff)

• will there be a “teleport to newbe” button so i can instantly port to him and join his map instance?

Crica.1503:

and during all that time spent playing alone in content that your friends and family have already completed, they will have completed alot of expansion content without you – the point of a character boost is so friends and family can play together in content that none have done yet, and I think it would attract alot of new players to the game.

“I think it would attract alot of new players to the game.” – sure push new players right into maguuma to fight mordrem trolls, -husks and -terragriffs etc. instead of some skelk to learn the game

skullmount.1758:

so release date is 12/31/15 11:59pm then?

So HoT would be released with a worldwide firework … nice move ANet x)

why has ANet to tell you your Story?

it is YOUR Character and it is YOUR Story – nobody ever said how you’ve become an elementalist or a thief.

Whith the Whole Mist-Lore-Shredder ANet created a Multiverse-Setting where it’s totally possible to be a Revenant before rytlock travelled the mists.

aside of that – i would be totally happy to have a new starter instance with the rev – but this won’t happen ^.^

i couldn’t agree more

2FactorAuth is not new …

Kidel.2057:

Loex.5104:

conjured mist weapons

No please, stop trying to make an ele clone.

Just like the Trapper Dragonhunter? or the Shout Reaper? – i dont want a copy i want versitality and i want just SOME OOC customisation of #6 – #0

Kidel.2057:

A similar thread got downvoted to oblivion on Reddit, so 99% of the community is in favor of weaponswap.

Just ignore him, don’t bump this thread anymore.

Yep its obvious the community is happy with WeaponSwap and so shall it be ^^

Kidel.2057:

Rygg.6237:

Kidel.2057:

As I told you in the other trait, you are under the impression that
1) You get fury on stunbreak, always, so also on legendswap.
2) When you get Fury your whole crit chance it 50% higher

Both are wrong.
1) You get fury if you stunbreak while you are stunned. Unless you are stunned 100% of the time, I can’t see how are you supposed to get 100% fury uptime. You don’t usually get stunned a lot, expecially in pve. And this isn’t even really good, since you’re forced out of your legend, maybe going to a legend where you have things on cd, or maybe you can’t even legendswap because it’s on cd.
2) Only our crit rate bonus from fury is 50% stronger, meaning you get +30% crit rate under fury instead of the normal 20%. It’s a 10% difference and Roy confirmed it (it wasn’t clear).

According to the post on changes I thought legend swap lost it’s CD so yo can change in between them like they were kits, so the fury proc should change each time you swap as it has 5 seconds of ICD… the thing is I did misread that and it’s just that they made it INSTANT CAST. Which then ruins a lot of the things I thought Revenant Could Achieve. As for Roiling Mists if the desired effect is increasing fury’s effect from 20% crit to 30% crit they should fix the tooltip, as it’s understood that it affects total crit chance and not only fury.

As I see it Legend swap shouldn’t have a CD if weaponswap has a CD, or a CD reduction trait at least simply because it would allow to manage energy and make the profession feel much more fluid.

Legendswap with no cd = infinite energy, so no.
You still don’t get what legendswap is for and how Revenant is supposed to work.

also roy mentioned that Legend Swap is INSTANT now by Baseline (and this was needed) … there was no word of the removal of the cooldown. (or am i blind?)

lighter.2708:

You automatically think that changing utility skills to become more versatile is impossible, but giving weapon swap is possible, it’s just narrow minded and tunnel visioned.

At the end you also said “we dont need to do the math how many possible setups Eles and Engis have for combats against the few a Rev can bring to the party (also with Weapon-Swap)”

so what’s the point of giving weapon swap, if it doesnt fix anything?

Nope you got me wrong,

im still voting for conjured Mist weapons – and i will always do that- also for additional Utils that are independend or just influenced by the legend to create more versitile builds (also more not predictable ones) /sigh we need sigils in base Revenant

The Weapon Swap does not not fix nothing thats just wrong – it fixes something and will influence the gameplay very positive but i also think thats not all the Rev needs but it is a step in the right direction and it adresses issues (not all, but some)

Rev is still lacking in utilities (at least 3 per legend) – but that has nothing to do with weapon swap – there was a need to change the first 5 skils and the ws adressed that

lighter.2708:

Are you saying that Elementalist and engineer give bad gameplay?….

i think you should start READING what others say and UNDERSTANDING it to be part of a senseful discussion ..

i said that the REVENANT Gameplay is much better with Weapon Swap and this fact is way more important than some stupid pattern of “omg there must be one soldier prof without weapon swap cuz reasons”

Engi and Ele are the last classes where you can talk about bad gameplay thoug … and why? … because they are versitile as kitten and can swap the hell out of their Skills to succeed in every situation ..

I think we dont need to do the math how many possible setups Eles and Engis have for combats against the few a Rev can bring to the party (also with Weapon-Swap)

lighter.2708:

HarbingerAzrael.5691:

Weapon swap solves a lot of proplems for Rev given that certain wapons synergyse well with certain weapons eg axe/mace goes with Mallyx.
most of what has been shown and used in beta is subject to change so stop kittening

Yea, then why engi and ele dont have these problems? lets give them weapon swap as well? you will say that’s too op? exactly.
you are just going for the lazy solution that doesnt fix anything while removing the class unique feature..
revenant was supposed to be the heavy that doesnt weapon swap,, if you want to play a heavy with weapon swap go play warrior or guardian, seriously.

Revenant was maybe intended to fit the pattern “1 class per armor type has no Weaponswap” – but Gameplay is more important than stupid patterns.

and the class unique feature is the Legend swap – the Weapon Swap has NOTHING to do with that

And yeah – ws is the maybe most obvious and easy solution – but it does its job

Artaz.3819:

There is a feeling of a double-penalty. Cooldown prevents spamming (unlike the Thief with only initiative). And energy cost prevents chaining all weapon skills on cooldown (unlike pretty much every other non-thief class) and even prevents you using utilities when you want. It should be one or the other, but not both. Utility skills should use energy and weapon skills should use cooldown.

seriously … stop this !! i read the same nonsense in so much posts

1) the system is inspired by GW1 . and this is fine – GW1 also head Energy AND Cooldowns

2) removing Enegry would lead to increased cooldowns what will slow down the gameplay and the versitality – i prefer a 15 sec cooldown on Drop The Hammer with a 10energy cost way over a 20 or 25sec cooldown. (we know what cooldowns are normal on #5 skills)

3) Removing cooldowns would lead the utils to cost more as there is NO Energy drop aside from them

4) The whole gameplay would lead to the following situation: wait for 100e -> activate Upkeep -> nuke the kitten out of your skills while you have full 20seconds of your upkeep skill as there is again no energy drain on your skills -> repeat -> profit

This is totally braindead gameplay – just learn to manage your energy and/or learn to live with it or dont play revenant. The whole energy management is a main part of the Revenant class and it will stay this way.

We’re talking about ~5 – ~15 Energy here … most skills have an animation that is long enough to regain the used energy.

do ppl ever realize that HoT is a prePURCHASE and no preORDER?

slowpoke strikes again

i can’t believe it that there are players who didn’t have noticed the whole ragestorm.

great idea to compare !!5!! pure meelee weapon skills with !!20!! semi meelee weapon skills of a DD Ele with high mobility as wel on weapons as on utils

WeaponSwap adressed a major Problem of Range infight as well as problems with a really monoton playstyle with just 5 weapon skills – its not the final point though . IMHO Revenant still needs some amount of work and improvements (Mallyx Utils / Jalis traits + elite / Staff 2 as well as Sword 2

hard to see players who didn’t notice the whole rage about this topic

Race: Asura
Weapons S/S + H (or S/A)
Favorite Legends: Shiro + Mallyx
Main/Alt: not sure now

Backstory: My FIRST EVER uplevelled char was an 80 – Asura Elemenalist which didn’t survived the undead armies of orr (got deleted because of reasons) and walked into the mists
Now, nearly 3 years later he is back with the power of the mists , kittening angry and wants to fight for his chance to return to Tyria and stay there to kick Mordremoths **** as he hadn’t the chance to do this on Zhaitan – the kitten who killed his loved Mentor and Friend Tybalt
A Heart full of Hate and anger for the whole species of Elder dragons and sharpened blades are ready.

Mallyx needs to be as intended “play with conditions” but atm its more like a suicide machine
Pain Absorption could stack hours of cripple and an insane amount of poison on you without having the possibility to get rid of it.

Mallyx should be more like “you condi’ed my friends? here is your kitten back bro”

Pain Absorption needs a duration cap and Embrace the Darkness should transfer the Condis to your enemies (maybe with increased effectiveness over time so 1/s at the beginning and increasing to X/s after Y seconds) and/or grant resistance to yourself – it is an upkeep elite skill with a huge impact in your energy management – they should be strong and mallyx needs a way to get rid of his condis

To maintain the whole idea of “your Condis make me stronger” the whole system should work a little different

Every condition you get should apply a boon on you that has the same amount of stacks and duration as the condis you’ve got – mallyx mechanics now calculate their stuff on the amount of that boon instead of the amount of condis you have atm – so mallyx is still viable in groups where every stuff is cleaned instantly.

The Mallyx mechanics of giving additional Torment and stuff should be more basic imho – instead of applying additional stuff just on the mallyx utils they should make the character itself stronger – the easiest way is to create might i think or giving +X on some Stat based on the amount of the Mallyx boon (like the Mesmer Mantra activation boon) or some stacks like thiefs poisons (next X attacks inflict XYZ).

Jalis just neets to be tanky as intended and advertised – some protection / retailliation on his skills along with traits that let you benefit from hits and dodges should work
im still looking for some kind of +toughness though :/

@Roy – maybe take a look at the great tanking traits of the Elementalist – things like Stone Flesh / Earth’s Embrace / Geomancer’s Training / Rock Solid / Geomancer’s Defense / Diamond Skin and Stone Heart could be easily applied to Jalis (modificated of course – but the idea should be clear imho)

Ventari is pretty fine i think – lets see how the changes play in the next beta

Shiro – cant say anything atm without playing him.

For the Weapons:
Hammer needs something to increase the Range to your enemy while Sword definitively needs a valuable gap closer (Skill 2 is pretty weak atm – could easily be replaced with some kind of leap / shadowstep or with something more special like a mix of Warriors Impale and Thiefs Scorpion Wire -> impale your Blade in your foe – do dmg + stack vuln / Cripple whatever – skill changes to sth that rips out the blade with dmg and rips the target with it to you if its 300 – 600 Range away (this would be more pro active cuz you have to imagine when your foe maybe wants to increase its distance to you)

And the Condi-players may want some kind of ranged condi weapon.

Rich Fuel.7253:

Since the last beta stopped and the POI a day afterwards with Shiro.

I just cant play any other classes, they all seem boring to me.(except for the Revenant of course)

Any1 else has this feeling?

^this is exactly how i feel

i second that – Jalis was supposed and “advertised” as “tanky” but actually it is not … the super expensive Elite and the traited short taunt doenst make him tanky imho

he needs definitively some source of protection and retailliation – atm there is neither some kind of toughness increase traitable (some thing what i would expect for some kind of tanky guy)

leftyboy.9358:

Solution- As far as I can see the best way to fix this is to have energy work like the the opposite of initiative. Have the front 5 require no energy and draw it down from the back 5.

really? this again ? … pleas stop this.

i love this idea :-)

Arkitech.9158:

All I’m saying is, why have a 15 sec CD when you can just make something cost equal 15 seconds of energy regeneration. Hypothetical situation. 30 energy regenerates at 1 per second. Ability that would normally have a 15 sec cd instead just takes 15 energy. It’s stupidly simple except its 100x more fun and make 100x more sense. tbh, cooldowns can suck a phat one. You all have no vision for the future.

What? 30 energy regens 1e/s? – you just created a thief clone – play thief if you like that kind of playstyle ^^

Stay with the current Regen and Energy-Pool → the 15 sec CD would equal 75!!! Energy
no one will ever use that

this whole debate is senseless as the combination of Energy and cooldown makes good skills possible with low cooldown – i dont get why this is such a problem

its so simple:

remove Energycost from Weapons —> Permanent Shiro/mallyx Upkeep with monster DPS Nuke (as you can make a kitten large Rotation over both weapons while having 20s speed or the 10% Mallyx bonus) – all other utilities never used → DMG is reduced to compensate that Burst playstyle and dont make it OP —> that forces you to play that way to still deal DPS
(just one example – there are way more ways to abuse that system)

Remove Cooldowns from Weapons – maintain all just with energy —> congrats you’ve created a thief clone

TheBlackLeech.9360:

I feel like the energy AND cooldown thing is fine for weapon skills, since they already have such a low cooldown….. but there is one thing that shouldn’t have both…. and that is your heal skill.

Having your heal cost energy and have a cooldown is just double dipping, imho.

We are talking about 5 Energy for a Heal-skill though – if you burned all your energy down to 0 and cant survive the 1 second to regenerate you made a mistake IMO
no need to say that in most situation the skill animation is long enoug to regenerate the 5 energy or at least nearly.

Arkitech.9158:

Just a suggestion for weapon abilities, they should either have a cooldown OR an energy cost. Having both seems kinda silly. Pick one

Edit: Added strawpoll.

http://strawpoll.me/4954532

jeez not that again …

BOTH is fine

Kidel.2057:

GoldenTruth.2853:

Recharge 5 energy per second, so we are both wrong it is 9 seconds.

At least I think that’s how it works if my memory is correct.

Recharge is 0 ooc

Recharge is 5 OOC see Roys Post

Genesis.8572:

But what about all those poor people who claimed that weapon swap is not needed for the Revenant, have proposed overly-complicated weapon-swap alternatives, or have threatened to cancel their pre-orders if Revenant gets it?

its the easiest alternative to solve the problem – the most ideas of the comminutiy would also have worked though (but woud all take way more effort to implement)

ROY …. THANK YOU =)
and WTF … the Sword 3 is just insane as hell …

I Would start by making Jalis a “tanky frontliner” like they intended him to be – more “I am here to protect you” – type
atm the only “tank” skills are a 50 energy 1s taunt and a 50 energy AoE DmG Reduce elite