Guild Wars 2

That fix always worked before for the portal or asura gates, guesting to another server. But it may be possible that it must try to put you in another map and it’s less likely to do so now. Either way worth a try for those seeing this, but for the op it didn’t work

I haven’t looked very much, but I was told that spvp is having the problem as well, so it’s a more general transition issue

Julius.7248:

Foxfire Cluster doesn’t work

Is there a known Item made with Passion Flower and Azurite Crystal? there is a chance Passion flower is one of the items and the wiki does not have an item that has these two as the required ingredient.

they count as gemstones you throw in and can get random other ones same level or higher back, or just things like the marks.

This has probably been pointed out, but I am not reading through them all just to make sure.

Yes, I’m a veteran player. Yes, I dislike this change for the little I use it immensely, and here is why. I bought gems with gold to either even out gems to a more round number, or to give me just enough to buy an item. What I mean is this, and sorry if it sounds like a confusing math problem: You budget yourself no more than 800 gems a month. You really want to buy 2 new limited time items, but they are 450 each. Under the old system, all you had to do was exchange for 100 gems, and you could get both. Under the new system, you are forced to exchange for 400 gems, when you only want 100.

Or you buy a lot of gems and go on a little spending spree, and somehow are left with 645 gems. There is really nothing else you want or need, until a new outfit comes out. And one does, which you just must have, and it works for every one of your characters, and you are certain you will not need any new outfits again. Problem is, it costs 700 gems, and your choices are: buy More gems in increments of 800 via card/paypal (or 1200 from a gem card from say gamestop), or convert 400 gems worth of gold. Under both scenarios you will have leftover gems that you have no further use for, since you already bought everything you want, and this outfit works so well you won’t be buying any more. Under the old system though, you could have gotten 55 gems and solved that problem with only a few gold.

And I feel sorry for someone that prefers, or feels the need, to have a nice even number.

Want a suggestion? Give us an advanced tab to choose an amount, in increments of 1 gem to buy OR sell. Quit dumbing down things to the point they are useless or ruin things for veteran players. Yes you need to keep new players, but if you do so at the cost of alienating veteran players from so many aspects of the game, you will be doing far more harm.

Conncept.7638:

Mizenhauer.6713:

Why didn’t that jerk defend LA?

Y’know I never thought about that before, Djinn have nigh god-like elemental powers, why the crap did he run away? Even if he didn’t want to defend the city (which he probably didn’t just because he’s kind of a jerk) the odds are the Aetherblades had nothing that could have killed him anyway. I mean, if he could be killed by normal means undoubtedly one of the millions of people who’ve had a sour deal with him would have done so already.

It’s worse than that. He trapped my guardian in there with him (not on, but literally inside… was that way from ~wintersday til scarlet attacked), and then… and then he fled LA, leaving me to load in amid the chaos alone!!!

As said, it was abused and was nerfed. It should never have done the amount of damage you mention. Perhaps it should do a bit more, but they had to take quick action on it and that is the consequence.

They did change this and it happens less often than it used to. I’ve hit people with Surprise Shot as they use a leap, for example, and the leap will finish before it immobs instead of doing it immediately and getting them stuck in the air. It can still get you stuck in the air but it is less often than before.

I had one case of being immob as I jumped out of a tower… that wasn’t fun. I fell and was stuck there until it ended.

With the leaps it shouldn’t keep moving them but it can, unless the immob hits before they do the leap of course. But neither should it still prevent you from using skills. It’s just something they need to tweak a bit more.

This is a well known issue and is related to pathfinding in general. Some areas it benefits you, like teleporting to the bridge in Ogre Watch, and other times it fails to move you a foot in front of you. There is not much they are able to do to fix it short of completely redoing the engine and/or maps. This has been discussed to death.

This is the reason that the kodan tonic’s value is ~2s. It’s very funny to watch dancing. Many will be sad when it is finally fixed. From what I’ve seen before, they are aware of it and have been.

Yeah it’s already out, I was trying to verify that with my question, and hoping that maybe it wasn’t yet in case it could fix the skills not activating, etc.

But those issues occur without large battles on the wvw maps as well so the issues I, and others, have seen the past month aren’t related to this bug, but still glad this was fixed.

So was this part of the update on the 9/30? If so then there goes my hope that fixing that would fix the strange lag/skills not activating, but that was a really good catch, and a strange bug!

I think it is more widespread than 1 person. That, or there are a myriad of odd things going on (probably a combination). Like the issues recently where you hit skills and they just don’t even try to activate.

mtpelion.4562:

Svarty.8019:

Dismantle is stupid. What if someone finds a clever spot to put siege and other people think it’s no good?

I vote this idea down.

Then that someone should either stay in his siege and prove it is clever or tell people why it is clever in order to dissuade them from dismantling.

You’d be surprised how many “problems” exist when you refuse to communicate with people.

and you underestimate stubbornness, trollishness, and overestimate the ability of people to listen and read anything said, plus who in their right mind wants to sit at a piece of siege for hours explaining to every single person, ‘this is good’, while they continue to not listen?

I’m not reading everything already said right now, I’ll do that tomorrow, but please, do not go another route of ‘merging’ or ‘megaserver’ for wvw. You need to encourage people to spread out, which should have been done back even at release. Instead you have part of the game population wanting to move to the ‘winning’ servers or the ‘top tier’ while others want to stay as far from that zergfest as they can. Some can’t stand sitting in queue for hours and shouldn’t be forced to do so, nor will any solution to turn wvw into eotm style.

It is bad enough we can’t see the people we use to see all the time in PvE, but now some want to eliminate the last place we can reliably run with people we know. Perhaps I’m still a little bitter on the fact Megaserver split up a healthy PvE community and gave in return a ‘world boss train’. If people want something like that in WvW, well, we already have it, it’s called EotM.

Something needs done, but instead of throwing everything into a blender and hope it mixes, how about an actual solution to do the following.

1. Discourage server stacking. This should have been done long ago, and you are approaching it being too late to do any good but perhaps #2 may work for that. You will never prevent this fully, only discourage it. Some people prefer this, but how they can stand the queues, I’ll never understand. Lowering the map limits a bit would increase queues for upper tier servers and would encourage some spreading out to other servers, but this would take time and if other incentives (see #2) are not given, this alone would hurt the game.
2. Encourage players to move to lower population servers. Free transfers themselves seemed to do about as much harm as good, though. Perhaps it may require a carrot/stick approach to spread people out. While this is extreme, the situation WvW is in now may require something a bit extreme, because as things stand, it is too stagnant and in turn the environment is becoming toxic.
3. WvW badly needs developer attention, and it needs it, well long ago but right now will suffice. Not just a few gimmicks, however enjoyable, but real attention, and this cannot wait any longer. So much about WvW is unbalanced , and I’m not just referring to the current tournament. We are not content with it, we just go in because a lot of us have mostly done everything else multiple times. I’d probably rather go in WvW every day even if every exit from spawn was camped by opposing servers, than to pug dungeons. But if WvW were all ‘merged’ and we had a system like EotM, I’d be tempted to throw my hands up and walk away.

It has been my hope that the Adopt a Dev idea allows many more of Anet Devs to see the issues we deal with daily. But if the solution to come from that is to turn WvW into a EotM-clone, then you might as well just remove it and consider all the time invested in it already a waste. (I’m not even getting into the effects this would have on guilds.) Because this is how many will treat it.

To reiterate: To a large extent WvW is our end game. We like it, at least when not constantly outnumbered because fairer fights make for a happier general population, and actually helps encourage more to go in. Some people prefer smaller scale roaming/havoc while others like to defend, but the rewards are not good. It’s not that enjoyable to sit in a tower for hours just to chase off a few people, and eventually have an entire map blob come to knock on the door. Have to say it is kind of interesting how fast a gate can be destroyed by a large group smacking their heads against it in frustration because you disable their rams consistently, but also ultimately futile if you do not have an equivalent size group in WvW at that moment to wipe them (This is where I will point out, that since Megaserver, there is not an easy way to just go into PvE, say Lion’s Arch, and exclaim “We need help in WvW”… since, you know, most likely there’s not many from your server in that copy of Lion’s Arch…)

edit: I am sure that I, and others, will have a lot to say on this,
Actually I take that back, the I part, and while this is coming from frustration and a bit of disgust at how things are and what I expect to happen, still going to say it.
“Do whatever, I don’t care. I’ve said my peace in the siege trolling thread, and the above. I will deal with it in game, or I’ll just take an extended break again in disgust.”

But let me point out something I have seen a few times…
“Person A: Merge the lower servers because they need it, BUT DON’T YOU DARE TOUCH MY SERVER”
“Person B: Split up the upper servers because they bandwagon to there anyways, BUT DON’T YOU DARE TOUCH MY SERVER”
Hypocrisy is amazing.
Also, I’m done.

Shadow.3475:

Lunacy Solacio.6514 no that is not true with my idea, when Tower (take that as example) is under attack then everyone can take supply from it, you cant block how much supply you can take when Sword on building, only when its not attacked. And that players that want to empty your tower would block so you cant empty it work against them self.

No, this would still allow them to troll fairly well, even with assuming camps would not be subject to such a limit (if camps were able to be limited in much the same way, it would be far worse). It is not practical, nor is it a viable solution to anything. It would complicate things, not prevent the current trolling really, and give them new ways to troll even if in a limited fashion. In turn, it would make it more difficult to know when you can and cannot take siege.

Additionally, are upgrades restricted as well since they use supply? If not, trolls can still waste supply no matter who claims, if they are restricted, you could pretty much be stuck defending a paper tower/keep if claimed and no upgrades are run by the guild that claimed, because when it is under attack, that is not the time to run an upgrade either unless you want to drain supply before they cap it. It is just adding more hoops to jump through with no actual solution, only at best shifting how the trolling is done, while complicating WvW for everyone

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Higher ranks of the guild claiming an objective can refund placed siege in the affected area and get all the supplies back which where drained.

Again, if a troll claims a keep (since, you know, they created the guild for that purpose therefore the highest rank), they could refund any siege they want to at any time. Just think on that…

Dredd Spirit Caller.4082:

a solution is to give a comand who claim the tower, keep or castle to take off a wrong siege and take back the supplies

Just let me make a simple statement to this, that I know Anet agrees with just from what has been said here.
No. Absolutely Not.

Also this has been argued probably 5 times in this prior, and it is among the worst ideas because it allows the trolls to claim and do far more damage than they can now.

Everyone needs to stop and think how the trolls could get around their idea, how they could actually use it to troll, and how it could hurt legitimate players. Trolls are your enemy right? Know your enemy, think like your enemy, because it is the only way to really defeat your enemy, but I will reiterate this point:

Whatever idea you can come up with, it has to be strong enough to have an effect, yet it is pretty much guaranteed trolls can not only get around it, but potentially use it as a new way to troll, all the while legitimate players will be forever restricted by the idea.

You may have some and not know it, as I understand it. Some are not making themselves known based on a prior post.

hihey.1075:

Do not push the discussion onto other topics. The stolen abilities are all great from a PvP PoV (Even the engi one is cool because you get chaos armor which helps a lot against engis because of blinds and cripple). This thread is for discussing the hidden “nerfs” on Steal (ie: bugs). Anything else should not be discussed here.

Except a number of issues like the Dev brought up are related. Latency is affecting many skills, and would be preferred if they all got fixed than each individually ‘bug fixed’ and ‘patched’ and then have to fix again because something else broke, although you do have a point about being on topic, but as said a lot of the exact same issues are being seen. Additionally, this should be under bug forum and not just structured pvp because it is affecting every game mode.

Definitely good a Dev is aware and that they are looking into it. Hopefully it will lead to steal working as expected every time with or without movement/teleport skills used before it.

Shadow.1675:

Focus on supply expenditure
- everyone has Daily Account limit of Supply (eg. 250/500)
-Art of War upgrade that will allow WvW focused Guild members unlimited Supply
- Art of War upgrade to facilitate militia to temporarily join for X hours (Adopt a Militia)

And nothing is stopping the trolls from using that which in turn leads back to the original problem, also you should not be punished just because your guild doesn’t wvw.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

snip
Oh, well… why can’t it ever be simple…

Because then it wouldn’t be fun :P

Shadow.3475:

Guild should not be able to claim anything without buff running was the first I wrote.

And blocking so players cant take supply from a tower/keep is helping not trolling.

So annoying helping in dolys hour after hour just so kids can go to tower take supply for its closer then a camp.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Shadow.3475:

Don’t think vote will work, if you take a player like me I kitten off players a lot because I curse them for taking supply from my home (Crag, Dawn, Cliff) and then they will start to vote away all my siege with I build there, had a girl that started to cry because she tooth I was unfair when she only took 10supply so she should get me banned and all here guild’s should report me, bla bla bla…

As I wrote earlier make it easy let owner limit how much supply you can take out when no sword on building, to own you need buffs running, how you then can make so someone can take over is simple the one with most buffs running takes owner ship.

Yes trolls can then make guild and start buffs, but they will need to have buffs that help the server running to be able to mess with the server.

You can claim without any buffs. It doesn’t take much to be able to claim. So not only have there been troll guilds claiming things just so others cannot, now you are giving them tools to troll further. And with guild buffs working across servers… it is even easier and cheaper now. As for cursing out players, if you go to the extreme like it seems you do, then yes you could very well have a suspension, because that behavior puts you on par with the trolls, or possibly worse.

Again that does not help. Under your proposal even if they have to have a buff running to claim, they could just use the +5 supply, yet set so no one can withdraw to defend it…

drmicro.7659:

I would suggest instead of a system that limits all players with the exhaustion idea, use the existing area around a commander tag (supplyinfo) and make it so that only the commander could drop siege in that area. So no if you find a siege troll, you send a commander to tag up and follow him, and he can’t drop and siege. It also prevents the accidental dropping of siege by other players at sites during a siege attack. Now this wont stop say a troll that comes on a tags up inside enemy sites to prevent you from building siege to defend, but it will certainly make them much more obvious on the map, and ppl are able to add them to a watch list, or report them if necessary.

As said a number of times, anything tied to a commander tag is just opening new issues. Example: Troll sits in tower, tags up, does nothing. In some towers, it’s likely they could prevent siege from being used in any area that would allow defending, then waypoint out just before a wall/gate goes down. I know of some people that would do just this.

edit: additionally, you are SUGGESTING for someone to troll another player. Just think on that…

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Blockhead Magee.3092:

One small tweak, perhaps, would be to not allow flame rams to be created inside a tower, camp or inner keep (SM & Garrison). At least force the griefers to use something that has a modicum of value.

I think this is a good start. Unlike other sieges, flame rams are very circumstantial. You have no reasons to deploy them in any places where they cant be of any uses. So, knowing that, every time someone would like to drop a ram you could check if the placement would result in a useless ram for the given context. If yes, you can’t deploy it period. If the troll want to deploy a legitimate ram, well, thanks.

For the other sieges it become a lot more difficult to say. I think we can improve the automation governing siege deployment but, down the line, some human intervention is necessary. Making a few examples ala Dhuum of old would go a long way.

You can use one at the top of stairs to fear people back down, as well as send them flying. Would that not be a legitimate use? Yes they are limited in scope, and rams do disappear faster than other siege, but even a change such as that would affect more than some people seem to consider. And a system to identify what is a ‘legitimate’ use or not? Good luck. Not possible. Unless of course the only legitimate use is on a gate you don’t own, but why should a player not be allowed to think of an alternative use for siege than ‘intended’ that could still help in a fight?

I have seen people here say a ballista is useless, yet I myself have seen ballistas allow a group of 5 to defeat a group of 15 that tried to take a camp, or a group of 15 (along with a few arrow carts) defeat a group of ~40 trying to take a keep. I would say definitely not useless.

Ocosh.5843:

Although it was not listed in the original post, several people have cited the practice of starting upgrades that spend cost immediately (personnel upgrades) during defense as a form of “trolling.” However, when executed right before losing control this is also a legitimate tactic, the equivalent of a scorched earth retreat. The losing defenders are denying their opponent supplies that are now lost to them. This is why when you have broken through doors/walls (or reached a defended camp) you make sure to kill the Quartermaster. The good maneuver and the bad maneuver are indistinguishable except in timing and intent.

Also very true, but once those upgrades are run that tactic cannot be used (obviously).

Goes right back to whatever is done to try to stop the trolls will only hurt the actual players.

Steb.2571:

Not sure if it’s been mentioned, but steal doesn’t always prioritize stab anymore with boonrip and SoH. Another bug? Or intentional?

So on the checklist of broken thief stuff,

Teleports (both target, and ground targeted)
Boonrip
Backstabs
Steal
Hidden Killer

My soul bleeds….

I have not noticed any issues with Hidden Killer, although I have noticed, and reported/complained about, teleports & steal as well as Cloak failing to hit (I even had steal teleport me far behind target… and often it faces me away from the target now), not to mention trying to backstab a player that appears right in front of you only for them to rubberband a bit away (Fairly easily reproduced when target is moving with Basilisk, Cloak, and then try to backstab). As a dev posted, this must all be related to latency and the way the servers deal with it, which have been far worse lately.

As well, the dodging rapid fire only for the shots to continue to hit you… which I got to do it back to a ranger last night with Dagger Storm. He tried to cancel it and dodged, only for the reflected shots to keep hitting him. For once that issue worked in my favor (I’d rather it be fixed though), but honestly, I do not prefer Dagger Storm. However, I am forced to take it to reflect attacks from 1500+ range, often while they sit on walls, by some of the same players that have messaged me and said thief was cowardly…

Note: I am not attacking the ranger class with the above comments, only commenting on the hypocrisy of some.

I agree that the mace has very limited use (however that really hurts if it is done to you when you don’t expect it), but the axe can actually be useful (and fun to watch a warrior 100b you, still get out of it, use the whirling axe steal, and down said warrior). It has a few more uses than the mace, but primarily I do find myself tossing away most of them. The mesmer steal can be very powerful, provided they aren’t using arcane thievery >.>

The engineer steal I despise, because it can reveal you if anything walks over it before it disappears, and is essentially useless. I don’t mind stealing from another thief, because it’s an extra stealth. By far I do agree the necro steal is probably the most versatile, but even that I often do not keep unless I think I can make use of it in a few mins, because I’d rather have the steal free.

I’m still seeing some people saying that reporting triggering anything ‘automatic’ is a good idea. It is not, unless that which is triggered automatically is a review by a GM. There is a legitimate reason why when you report someone, they are not automatically banned for ‘verbal abuse’ or ‘botting’ or whatever. Because it can be used to troll other people intentionally or not. Do you know how often actual players were reported for botting 1 1/2 years ago? Probably almost every ranger in pve that happened to use a bear for a pet, just because it was the preferred of those bot farming. I followed and watched behavior before I reported any because I did not want to report actual players. But many other people rushed to report, (sometimes stand there typing to guild etc), and then were shocked when the player asked why they were watching them. I remember someone saying “OMG I thought you were a bot!” and then being upset because they reported them until told it takes multiple reports and a GM review.

Point is, under no circumstance should it be possible for the community to dictate whether or not someone can play in any game mode. It can be abused, and it WILL, without a doubt, at some point be used against legitimate players, while the trolls keep on.

Know what is a bigger issue than troll siege? People buying upgrades just to drain supply. It’s easy, it’s practically anonymous, and it does far more harm in a shorter period of time. Yet, just a few posts up you have another example of the problem of ‘community policing’: One person thinks fortify is useless and only trolls buy that, while others rely on fortify (after waypoint), while still others think fortify should come before waypoint upgrade. But I think most everyone can agree upgrading ‘merchants’ or guard level in a tower/keep is pretty much useless and only wastes supply. And yet, very recently I saw a keep constantly supply starved because after someone queued a legitimate upgrade on a paper keep (ex: walls/gates) someone else came along and queued ‘merchants’. Result? 0 supply. It’s hard enough when people won’t listen and waste keep/tower supply to repair a wall being trebbed, or a door that is about to upgrade anyways. Once a keep is upgraded, it’s a lot easier for a smaller group to defend it, but to get it there, upgrades wasting supply do a very effective job of quickly supply starving you, dragging out the upgrades, and making it even easier for your enemy to come in and take it. At least all those ballistas could be used to kill people after they break in.

Shadow.3475:

Don’t think vote will work, if you take a player like me I kitten off players a lot because I curse them for taking supply from my home (Crag, Dawn, Cliff) and then they will start to vote away all my siege with I build there, had a girl that started to cry because she tooth I was unfair when she only took 10supply so she should get me banned and all here guild’s should report me, bla bla bla…

As I wrote earlier make it easy let owner limit how much supply you can take out when no sword on building, to own you need buffs running, how you then can make so someone can take over is simple the one with most buffs running takes owner ship.

Yes trolls can then make guild and start buffs, but they will need to have buffs that help the server running to be able to mess with the server.

You can claim without any buffs. It doesn’t take much to be able to claim. So not only have there been troll guilds claiming things just so others cannot, now you are giving them tools to troll further. And with guild buffs working across servers… it is even easier and cheaper now. As for cursing out players, if you go to the extreme like it seems you do, then yes you could very well have a suspension, because that behavior puts you on par with the trolls, or possibly worse.

John Corpening.9847:

-snip-

• If you do not own a piece of siege:
  • There is a skill on the skill bar called “Vote Dismantle”
  • If a piece of siege gets 5 votes:
    • The timer on the siege drops to 5 minutes
    • The player who placed the siege gets a stack of exhaustion
      • In this proposal this is the only way to get exhaustion
• When a siege timer is reduced to 0 it is dismantled
  • All siege that is dismantled drops 25% of the supply it took to construct

Exhaustion

• A player who has 5 stacks of exhaustion can no longer place siege until they have 0 stacks of exhaustion
• A stack of exhaustion is removed:
  • After 5 minutes
    • For commanders this time is reduced by 2 minutes for each member of your squad for up to 20 minutes
  • For each enemy player defeated
  • For each objective taken
    -snip-

This will still effectively do nothing against actual trolls. Worst case, they will wait out the time/tag up for a few mins to ‘game the system and remove their limits’, or go and kill a few players and come back to troll with more siege.
And again, it does nothing to prevent a group from trolling others. If someone places siege, but someone else doesn’t like them, they can get 4 friends to come, remove all siege when not looking, and limit how someone is allowed to play until the ‘punishment timer’ is up. This could, intentionally or not, prevent further defense and could cause a loss of another objective.

The community is not good at policing itself (edit: on things like this. Nor is it the communities place to decide who can or cannot be allowed to throw siege or defend a tower, etc). And I am completely against anything that can be used to ‘troll’ actual legitimate players.

I place siege for myself, and others, to use to defend something. I expect it to stay there if it is refreshed. But under this proposal it would be in my best interest to remove siege when I’m not going to stay and defend something because I want to play elsewhere (you know, since defending is boring after a while and rewards are awful), so I’m not prevented from playing how I choose to due to what a group of other people think I should be playing, especially when I am helping my server.

Zoel.9154:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Zoel.9154:

I think voting is an adequate method to reduce siege trolling. Sure, 20 people could remove siege to troll.

That is quite a lot of trolls though; when roughly a fourth of your map is trolls your server probably has much bigger problems than siege trolling, so I don’t think it matters if 20 people “troll” remove siege.

There’s also the possibility that those 20 people are just making a legitimate mistake… which is okay.

No, it is not okay. All it would take is 1 person that doesn’t like you, to get friends/guild/both to all vote against you. Think this won’t happen? It happens already. A vote is far easier and simpler for them to use than to sit and ‘troll’ someone in map chat, but they would do both while the votes would allow friends to help out easily.

There is far more wrong with it than even that. Some of the points have already been made. But regardless of how anyone may feel about Anet and their actions, I would trust their decision on whether someone is a troll over a ‘mob mentality’ voting on that. I would go so far as to say I would prefer our current situation over any idea that I have read here (maybe I missed a good suggestion or 2, if so wish I had seen them), while I agree at this time it is not working well.

Edit: The ‘fix’/‘cure’ must NOT be worse than the ‘disease’.

How would you know what siege was the specific players to grief?

You’re talking about mass harassment here. Only GMs can deal with that situation IMO.

Your response does not actually make sense. “how would I know what siege was the specific players to grief?”?

If I throw down siege, unless I accidentally put it in the wrong spot, I want it there, do not remove it. I put it there for a reason. If I take the time to make sure it’s refreshed, only to come back and refresh it for it to be gone, I’m not going to be happy. But again I ask for you to clarify your question because I do not see it’s relevancy to anything I said.

As for 2nd thing, I can say only GM’s can deal with it as it currently is. As I said, I would prefer our current system over those proposed, including a ‘voting’ system, because there is no real practical way for those voting to know a reason for a piece of siege to be somewhere.

It isn’t just steal, all movement/teleport skills are behaving oddly (putting you back where you started from is a big bug when it was a valid move. I agree, it seems related to latency on the server. I’ve had steal just fail when the moment I hit it, I was very close. Just because I had used shadowstep to get close should not cause steal to fail. The situation has gotten worse since the 9/9 patch, in that dodging rapid fire fails to evade, seeing ‘evade’ on players that are not dodging (even while they are using a heal and have no ‘evade’ skills active ex: Ele), standing inside Shadow Refuge and suddenly ‘revealed’ without attacking anything, Walking into a shadow refuge and receiving ‘revealed’, showing stealth buff yet everyone can see you, etc. Fix the evades and stealth (no I am not referring to rapid fire being used before you stealth, although I had a veteran archer use rapid fire on me 2 seconds after I stealth…), and I’ll have less complaints for the ranger buff, but 2 dodges and shortbow 3 spam on thief should be extreme overkill on dodging a rapid fire (yet they failed to do so, and the sb3 was a panic action to try and not die), cloak and backstab missing because target isn’t where they appear to be, stomps failing because target isn’t where it appears, unable to revive for same reason, etc…

Zoel.9154:

I think voting is an adequate method to reduce siege trolling. Sure, 20 people could remove siege to troll.

That is quite a lot of trolls though; when roughly a fourth of your map is trolls your server probably has much bigger problems than siege trolling, so I don’t think it matters if 20 people “troll” remove siege.

There’s also the possibility that those 20 people are just making a legitimate mistake… which is okay.

No, it is not okay. All it would take is 1 person that doesn’t like you, to get friends/guild/both to all vote against you. Think this won’t happen? It happens already. A vote is far easier and simpler for them to use than to sit and ‘troll’ someone in map chat, but they would do both while the votes would allow friends to help out easily.

There is far more wrong with it than even that. Some of the points have already been made. But regardless of how anyone may feel about Anet and their actions, I would trust their decision on whether someone is a troll over a ‘mob mentality’ voting on that. I would go so far as to say I would prefer our current situation over any idea that I have read here (maybe I missed a good suggestion or 2, if so wish I had seen them), while I agree at this time it is not working well.

Edit: The ‘fix’/‘cure’ must NOT be worse than the ‘disease’.

These ideas scare me.

I said previously most anything you can think of will only accomplish the opposite, but most every idea suggested here goes even beyond that. If I didn’t know that people actually believe some of these ideas would be good, I’d swear half of them are just ‘trolling’. Just on pages 6/7 of this thread, I have seen suggestions that would only benefit trolls, while some of them would, not just could, be used to completely prevent ‘actual players’ from playing the game.

From what I see, the exhaustion may be the least evil idea, but it is far from a good idea, and would NOT accomplish the stated goals.

EFWinters.5421:

Sorry ArenaNet, but this thread scares me. Before you implement any automated system that will hinder players ability to play WvW, ask yourself this:

How many times have you heard people complain about your current system, which is refreshing siege, compared to the problem of people siege trolling? For me the answer is about 100:1.

• There are situations where I am completely justified in building 10 ballistae in a paper keep.

• There are situations where I am completely justified in spending 500 supply within 10 minutes.

• There are situations where I am completely justified in dropping 25 siege blueprints within 10 minutes.

If you don’t understand this, and the fact that any automated system will only serve to inconvenience thousands of players on a daily basis to deal with 5-10 that you are too lazy to, then I am really scared for the future of WvW.

The only way you will get rid of people trolling with siege is to implement automatic restrictions that will make WvW near unplayable, or to actually go out there yourself and deal with this extremely small subset of toxic players yourself.

Exactly, these are actual situations that do come up, and concerns me about ideas I’ve read here. All I see are things that could hurt and limit legitimate usage while not doing anything about the actual problems. Part of the problem is that people don’t see all the different aspects because they haven’t done those things themselves. I see these ideas, and think of how it would severely hinder defense of a tower or keep that is about to be zerged by ~50 while there might only be 15 defenders. Or even defending a tower against just ~20. Trust me, people don’t need encouragement to zerg down an objective, they do it far too much already, which some of the ideas would only encourage more of.

(offhand comment but there are reasons behind these even if actions won’t ever be taken on them: If you want to limit some troll siege, remove cannons from outer wall of Stone Mist and prevent trebuchets from being built on the top floor.)

John Corpening.9847:

snip
The exhaustion idea that I kicked out there has had some mixed responses. There were some amazingly good ideas to make it work a whole lot better. For example, I really liked the suggestions that the cool down time is reduced for each member of your squad. I am really concerned though about the affects that you guys brought up on small havok groups and defenders. There were some suggestions that I think would make it work. For example, a couple of suggestions were along the lines of if you are actively playing it will clear your exhaustion. So if you down an enemy, break down a gate, destroy enemy siege etc. your exhaustion would be cleared.

If we tweaked Exhaustion to this would it work? :

1. When a player places a piece of siege they receive a stack of “Exhaustion”
2. A stack of “Exhaustion” expires after three minutes
3. If a player has five stacks of “Exhaustion” they can no longer place siege
4. If a player downs an enemy, destroys siege, breaks down a wall or gate their exhaustion is cleared
5. A commander’s exhaustion is reduced by 30 seconds for each member of his squad
   snip
   John

This would help limit those that keep throwing siege up on walls of their enemy, etc, but it could still cause problems for people trying to set up siege to defend.
Take a small group that is defending a tower or even a keep. Often only 1 or 2 may know the best spots to place siege, so they do it because it’s faster to show than to try to explain. 5 in a 3 min time period may minimize the chance of it actually negatively affecting a player. but at the same time, you would do little to stop actual ‘supply trolls’ or ‘saboteurs’ (which unfortunately do exist).

Writing this I also wondered something. Would tricks or traps count toward this ‘Exhaustion’? Would pulling it out but then returning it to inventory count as well, or throwing siege but it failing due to ‘cannot be placed here’ (saying it now so those potential bugs could maybe be avoided)? Would say supply trap be improved to be actually useful in more situations (as is, they are not, especially against groups. 5 supply from 20 people has no effect when the group attacking is 50, not to mention the time required to activate it and it cannot be done in stealth), and I’ve already noticed times the disabler fails to hit and activate despite throwing when there is no cata/golem bubble, nor swirling winds/wall/etc. I would swear it has failed to hit just because a guardian was standing in front (read: aegis) but it will take more time to judge whether that is happening or not, but I’ve had multiple disablers fail to do anything even though no blocks/reflects were in use.

Despite heading off on that tangent, with those situations, if it counts towards exhaustion, legitimate players could hit that 5 and have to wait for a stack of exhaustion to wear off, hurting a small defense. Yet, a ‘troll’ would just have to space out the time they are building siege and even if they don’t have to run far, they won’t be affected by exhaustion at all as each stack would still roll off, which in turn defeats part of the point to this ‘deterrent’. It would, however, limit the spamming of build sites, but a lot of the ‘troll’ use of it isn’t from spamming but just 1 or 2 sites.

There is more to this than that. On Monday, A few of us were mapping Mount Maelstrom on some alternate characters. We received the notice to leave the map I think 4 separate times… To clarify: The notice popped up, we ignored it (because we had just accepted to ‘volunteer’ not too long before), after a little while, it goes away, then pops up all over again, just like it’s the first time. Same thing, we choose later, see the little symbol in the lower right, after a while, it vanishes. Little while later, pops up, once again stating in 59mins 59 seconds this map will be closed, etc..

Not to mention I’ve moved a map before, only to have it tell me I have to move not even 30 seconds after having previously ‘volunteered’. I had it do this 3 times almost a week ago.

Both of these situations as well as the op’s are not working as intended.

If it is going to close a map, it should not be moving other people to that map unless it no longer intends to close it, upon which it should not up and decide once again to close it just a few mins later. One change of mind I could understand, why create a new one if one already exists.. but to do this back and forth makes very little sense. Also, afaik, it is still not taking into account friends when it puts you on a map (and if it was, the fact those in same guild also have each other on friends list should increase the ‘priority’ of them being together right?). I can definitely state that megaserver does not care to the extent is should whether you have guildies on a map or not, it puts you wherever it wants, nevermind that you may have 4 other guildies in a Lion’s Arch map. Additionally, I have seen 4 guildies end up in 4 different copies of the same map.. definitely not working correctly, worse when all in same party and that happens…)

Likely all the ways you can think of to ‘fix’ the issue of troll siege could actually have serious unintended consequences and punish the wrong players while not having a real effect on ‘trolls’.

psizone.8437:

But since you asked, I believe supply depot still grants stealth if you cnd off of it. (haven’t confirmed since last patch)

Yes it does. After I was told you couldn’t cloak off walls, this was the first thing I checked while taking a camp. Well.. siege I already knew because I used cloak/backstab on siege.

Sagat.3285:

Straegen.2938:

Thieves can still stealth off anything they can damage which includes gates and siege. Only walls were removed and it is VERY justified. They should go back to the original fix where non-creatures could not be used to stealth.

To take this a bit further, stealth should put a player at half speed (mesmers as well). The fact that a thief with a single trait can move faster cloaked than not is stupid. Only game I have EVER played where stealth was an improvement in moving speed.

Have you heard of a spec called d/d burst? That why there is a trait to increase normal movement speed in stealth.

I don’t use the 50% movement trait on my d/d thief, because I would have to give up far too much to do so. I see it as more useful for the actual trolly ones, or better used by those acting as scouts. I’m not sure how many thieves use it, though, but yeah a good number do seem to with how fast some move. I do advise people that think thieves are just ‘trolls’ or completely ‘op’ to actually play the class and try the different builds (which most refuse to do because it’s ‘cheese’… if they did, they could fight thieves better, and would learn thieves are generally very squishy if they want to do any real damage).

Even having acquired a lot of wxp on thief in wvw, I was among those saying how much the stealth on walls needed fixed, and I was very happy to find out you couldn’t cloak off walls anymore. I don’t think you should really be able to cloak on gates or supply depots either, but that isn’t really as serious. If a thief does so, it narrows the areas they can remain in making it easier to aoe them, and trick them into a stealth trap when they try to avoid being hit. Siege/turrets you really should be able to cloak on, though, since they are able to attack you (although siege has to actually be controlled to hit you but you have to draw the line for simplicity’s sake and the servers load somewhere). Unfortunately engi turrets are treated like structures from what I’ve seen and understand so that may be a compromise on things at this time.

This is something I’m noticing in wvw, not just with players. Just tonight I did not get credit for 3 camp supervisors and 2 tower lords, yet at other times I got credit for the same towers/camps. And the past week or so I’ve noticed issues with player kills and not getting any experience at all, despite the fact at least some of those times they were killed in my server’s ‘corner’ of EB.

edit: To clarify, I am not normally a part of the ‘big zerg’ and every one of these cases was generally with ~10 players or less, especially the player kills I noticed. I agree that there should be a limit on wxp/xp/loot for those being spawn camped, but if they run to my side, and I kill them, I very well should get loot/wxp for it.

As for this ‘discouraging’ spawn camping, it will really have little to no additional effect (also the outnumbered buff could, you know, actually be useful).

I see. At first I wasn’t sure what the issue was, but I too am showing this. Looking at it, the ascended armor items are showing all the components properly, but the Draconic Coats and everything else are only showing the insignia (if that insignia is craftable of course)
For reference, my GW2 ‘install’ has existed since the beta weekend events.
On armorsmith character I also have huntsman, and it appears perfectly fine.
weaponsmith/artificer look fine, Tailor/jeweler seem fine, cooking seems fine but leatherworker same issue

Not as things are, revealed does not need an increase in it’s duration. At the moment it and stealth are not functioning properly (random revealed/loss of stealth sometimes while even showing still in stealth and causing you to get zerged and other odd things, and a rare bug with stealth/reveal both on you but this has only happened to me once and to an enemy player once). After these bugs are fixed perhaps a bit longer revealed might be ok, but it’s rather fine as is. They already lengthened Sic’ Em and I can definitely notice the effects of it, it is a painful few seconds. I agree with the complaint that if you run into a group that has all ranger/engi, and they each take turns using their skills that apply reveal, you are dead unless you either: run which with rangers that is still risky, or play an evasion/non stealth build.

edit: To be honest, though, I’d be more worried about 5 rangers doing rapid fire than about Sic’ Em… I’m worried about 1 since shortbow 3 and dodges do not properly evade it from 1 ranger.

sparc.3649:

If they don’t get rid of this I am out of here too. As if it’s not bad enough siege is usually destroyed easily enough by a billion players AOEing it, now one person can disable it while they destroy it, making it harder to stop them from destroying it.

This has got to be ANETs BIGGEST screw up in the last, well, since the game launched!

This is what has had me concerned as well about the disabler. Because it makes it easier for zergs.

Snorcha.7586:

shouldn’t be able to disable seige from behind a gate / wall

By the same token, a ram shouldn’t affect someone behind a gate, meteor shower shouldn’t hit behind a gate, all that aoe on gate shouldn’t prevent defenders from repairing gate without dying, etc…

The disabler is just one part of this bigger issue. It works under the same rules in that when it hits, it’s aoe. You could say well they’d have to click on the siege to throw it then… problem: zerg stands on the siege, you can’t click to select the siege to throw at, so that isn’t a solution either >.<

I use this disabler because it makes it a bit fairer when you have one side zerging everything and the other side only has a few in wvw. As for trolling aspect, that is the fun of it, knowing how mad I’m making them just to take a paper tower. (will they get the tower? Yes. But instead of capping in <1 min, they now have to wait a bit or plan ahead)

A lot of this will settle down some as people adjust to it. But where it should be good, disabling golems, where anet said they wanted it used, it is actually useless if they have a few golems and coordinate the bubble. This is where I really want it used, and it has no use whatsoever.

Problem is, to ‘fix’ this disabler, is very tricky. If nerfed a little it could be rendered more useless than a supply trap (only 5 supply removed from 20 people, kinda useless when you are dealing with a zerg).

If, as someone suggested, it had a minute before it could disable rams again… I’d be tempted to just probably right click/destroy the extra ones I have, because in 1 minute, I’ve seen a reinforced gate melt (in fact I’ve seen one melt in about 30 seconds…). Not able to disable a ram again until it has a chance to hit the door at least 1 time? That is fair. But a minute? No. That only encourages more of the problem we already have. 3 sup rams on gate, not much point defending that tower no matter how upgraded it is unless you have a zerg of your own coming.

There has to be a way to make this useful without being purely a troll rams/cata and roll over to golems thing because nothing you can do.

It doesn’t make sense. How can it not be an issue in cities and yet be an issue out in the ‘world’ so to speak. Minipets shouldn’t be putting any ‘real’ extra strain on the servers since all they do is follow you. They don’t wander off on their own, they don’t fight, they don’t care when you die. If there is an issue here, it’s something that Anet needs to fix. I have not been happy with how mini pets are here compared to gw1. More often than not they get missed and buried under everything going on around you.

But this? This is just… I don’t really have words to describe how much this ‘feature’ slaps users in the face.

For clarity: There are other things that are big issues that do more than that, but for those of you that don’t understand other’s concerns with minipets, realize they spend a lot of money on them, and this is effectively a ‘Bait and Switch’. So whether it has value to you or not, think how much you’d have a fit to buy that new shiny sword to have it switched to a regular iron sword… or to buy the latest dress, only for them to package a burlap sack instead…

I do not believe this is so much an issue with users computer’s as it is with the server. But if the servers are so sensitive that a few more minipets out can cause issues, then giving us this ‘feature’ to always have them out everywhere, on every character, was a mistake in the first place.

tovadaun.6304:

Posted a bug report earlier, didn’t know this was here or active (yay useless search feature!). I’ll request to have it deleted/merged.
My Shadow Fiend is useless most of the time. I am lvl21 and 90% of the time it does nothing. This does not appear to be a terrain issue, as it will take a nap on any kind of terrain. Sometimes it will decide to “join in” on the very last hit of the fight. I do now PvP/WvW, this is all PvE content. Of the 90% failure rate, 90% of that it naps on Veteran and Champ fights. It’s just about time to hang my Necro’kitten on a peg and delete her.

Pretty much don’t use minions. Because mostly they are useless. The screwed up thing is, the rock dog/golem/parrot/etc summoned by runes work fine, and attack/follow you properly. Necro minions? Nope.

Shademehr.1397:

FarmingPanda.4359:

SIEGE TRAP TOO LONG. <——— really? especially when you’re trying to ninja a tower with a small group, one person just keeps throwing siege traps until the big zerg comes….

I used the mess outta the siege tricks last night. I could almost hear the rage from the opposing team. They are kinda ridiculous. I suspect that everyone will adapt to them though, in time.

Tuesday night I know I ticked off a number of people on an opposing server, because they have far more people in wvw than my server does, made them PvD and eventually build a cata to hit the gate just to take a paper Mendons. It was fairly good payback for the zerging of single players, and gave me a few mins of the most fun I’ve had facing them, well.. except when severely outnumbered and still wipe them.
Yes, some are adapting already and showing the serious flaws between the disabler and golem mastery (namely that it’s useless with enough golems, exactly as predicted). Also a bug with the healing bubble being ‘op’ that needs fixed asap.

As for lag, I intermittently noticed some issues with this again, but I could blame my isp for them. However, other issues related to ‘lag’ have gotten worse again, skills missing when they shouldn’t be, blink/shadowstep failing and putting you right back where you started, etc.

immediately after the patch, and for hours afterwards skills had a 1/2 second delay for me. It resolved for the most part for me… but for many others they continued to complain about it.

The Rez/stomp/interact issue is don’t hold down the mouse for camera turning. let go of the mouse buttons to interact… it’s silly and something they are working on already, saw it mentioned last night by a dev.

Yes except if you wanted to do them anyways even if you weren’t “at the specified levels” you are now blocked from doing so, correct?

not all ranged has the buffer. Sic em is an absolute range. From what I’ve seen Thief pistol has no buffer (while shortbow 1 does with both being 900 range, trait change will give pistol the appearance of having something akin to this in 2 days), we know shadowstep, blink, mesmer phantasm skills (ex: GS 4, pistol 4), etc., all don’t have a buffer. It is things like shortbow, longbow, mesmer GS 1, most melee attacks (should… although some I don’t think do from the way they seem to miss sometimes).

Edit: You are right that some attacks go beyond the range they should, and this will get worse until Anet is forced to fix it. When a zerk ranger is on, say, SM wall ‘pew pew’ing I just take my thief and cluster bomb, maybe poison too, and proceed to annoy that ranger as much as they annoyed me. Rapid fire? sb3.

Trust me though, no one abuses this as much as Veteran Archers!!!
although one ranger I’ve dealt with about 2 months ago came close… also died a number of times when sm wall was broken, and I can’t imagine by who
>.>
<.<

Here is one of the links, #17 in his list. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/List-of-Mesmer-Bugs-Older-Thread/3750901
listed here for convenience:
“Intended. All ranged and melee skills have a 15% buffer range to take account for tracking.”

There was another post but I am unable to find it. I searched for this because there still seems to be confusion despite trying to make this clear, and showing a dev post is helpful.

Although pistol doesn’t count as ranged (nor melee obviously) because it does not have this buffer (mesmer 5, thief pistol skills, etc., not sure about engi as I haven’t played enough to see)

I did that in Beta, but it wasn’t such a shock because I knew about Sylvari and it fit with the Lore. However, for those that are new to GW2 without prior knowledge, I can imagine the shock there.

I had forgotten that they added that ability to get your clothes just by running past the npc. I don’t think that ‘feature’ was there originally. I think you had to talk to the npc or relog.

Still, it is funny to see people’s reactions to that.

Anet themselves have stated there is a buffer for tracking, and yeah projectiles keep going beyond range… except pistols because those don’t count >.>

oh and ele scepter air 1 (I think does) and mesmer gs 1 (I know does) have a buffer on that. Reason given was so that if your target moves just out of range due to latency you can still hit, the reverse also applied if it was outside and moves just in range, you still can’t hit. The buffer was ~+/-15% I believe. This is obviously a bit more to it due to projectile and height. It is actually realistic but I agree this goes beyond how it should work. Take WvW npc archers for instance… so annoying.

This should classify it as more of a bug than intended, but likely will remain as such.

Is nice to see more accurate testing has been done on it.