Guild Wars 2

Tried a build.

10
20
0
20
20

Rifle, Elixir H, Tool kit, Elixir B, Elixir R

Was fine for solo targets, but honestly, still not as good as grenade build.

I want to use it I do… but I can’t. I can’t.

achmed.6542:

its not that i dont like the idea but i dont think its well thought through.
its a rather big buff cause we would gain additional (bundle) skills which would give us an advantage since this game is all about managing Cooldowns. I could just take a extra kit for example the flamer and knock you down or blind you. or take the bombkit and area blind you, or the toolkit and block some of your attacks.

sounds cool indeed, but thats probably not going to happen. at least not this way.

@lyuben
im not going to discuss this “bundle skills” issue with you (again). you have your point of view, i’ve got mine and i’m sure we can both agree to disagree.

Its not an issue of opinion

Its an issue of fact.

And the facts are:

Kits are bundles

Bundles are not weapons.

No opinion about it.

I believe its 4 seconds.

‘They know’ means nothing Achmed.

They’ve known since BWE1, which was months ago.

Clearly us letting ‘them know’ accomplishes nothing, and unless you remind them of the issue and show them that you care, then they will just ignore it.

Well, exploit or not, it was pretty much the only useful part of elixir X.

So now, the skill is even worse.

Arenanet seem to think that lowering the cooldown and making it count as an elixir is somehow going to get us to use it, but in reality, the fundamental problems of elixir X were never changed.

If they made it a 50s cooldown, I’d not use it… why can’t they learn?

Its not weapon skills though.

Its bundle skills. Bundles are not weapons.

How does skill 3 heal for a fair amount of it doesn’t scale with +healing?

And the 5th skill is long cooldown, and extremely unreliable for single target damage. It spreads out VERY wide.

So, if you want to heal, take elixir gun.
If you want AoE 1500 range damage, take a grenade kit.

If you want a useless elite, take a mortar.

Toolbelts make up for a lot slot… lol.

3 kits= 4 toolbelt skills
0 kits= 4 toolbelt skills

What slot are toolbelt skills making up for again?

So, what would you have the engineer forums be?

No bugs to be discussed. No issues to be mentioned.

Just what? Mindless praise that achieves nothing?
You think they would have fixed the auto attack on the kits if we had it your way?

achmed.6542:

i was asking for weapon damage !
its old news that stats and sigils from weapons wont count.

and also, its not a waste, it just might be less efficient.
thrown Elixirs and other tools like the googles give a shazbot about weapons stats.

Incase you haven’t noticed, kits don’t have a weapon damage. So rifle/pistol have a higher one.

And in the case of something like regeneration, if you have +healing on your mainhand weapon, then using it with a kit is indeed a waste.

Whats the problem? You don’t want people to know that using toolbelts with kits is inefficient? That upsets your perfect vision of the engineer?

No.

I made a thread about this a while ago.

Toolbelt skills scale with what you currently have equipped. With a kit= no sigils, less stats, less weapon damage.

So naturally, using a toolbelt skill with a kit is a waste.

Why do people talk about it as if range is its only problem?

Have you seen its horrendous damage? And since its a turret, it completely ignores your stats.

So…
Immobile
Dead Zone
Destructible
Poor Damage, when compared to grenades
Worse range than grenades

They need to make it either scale to your stats, or REALLY buff up the damage. Because even if they buffed up the range, grenades, a utility slot item, would be better than an elite slot item.

The point was Gummibear, that he was making comments about the engineer while only being level 1.

And an engineer will only ever have 5 weapon skills. He may get 15 ‘bundle’ skills if he loses all his utility slots, but he’ll never achieve more than 5 weapon skills.

A good QoL change.

Lets hope they don’t think that they’ve now fixed kits, since kits still need a lot of significant fixes.

If you want evidence that engineers are crippled, its not a very hard task to find evidence for.

Kits don’t use sigils and weapon stats.

There we go.

Volte.9670:

couple of months late? The game has barely been out for a month

They’ve known about it for months.

Since BWE1.

One of the only reasons for using that horrendous skill before, was for the free stability. You could use it, go out of the transformation, and lots of stability. Well now, you lose it when you prematurely leave the transformation.

So while it may go up in duration by 3s for the tornado, or 4s with rampage with a tier 2 trait, it is overall a nerf.

Do arenanet expect us to use this awful skill? Just remove it and give us something original please!

RoughJaco.3148:

So FT now autoattacks? Can’t play and check myself right now, please tell me it does!

It does.

All kits do (except grenade kit, which obviously has no auto attack.)

Jordan.6157:

Lyuben.2613:

Jordan.6157:

Engineer’s have kits. This is how they are made and meant to be played. It works perfectly and needs no changing. If you don’t like it don’t play Engineer. This is how the profession is. If you don’t like how the profession is why are you playing it?

We simply dont have enough weps aswell for wep swapping. Everyone will be rocking the same kitten. Just lame.

Perfectly?

Good joke mate.

I bet you think its intended that kits ignore weapon stats, sigils and discourage engineers from using toolbelts with kits equipped.

Just as intended…

Kits seem fine to me. I hit with Grenades 900 per 3x grenades for skill 1. I don’t feel much of an issue when I play. I am just sick of seeing people try and revamp a profession. It’s basically asking arena-net to change their game. It’s no different to asking minecraft to become a first person shooter. It doesn’t make sense. How can people think they can just make something what they want because they like how they are an Engineer. If they don’t like how the profession is, it MASSIVELY confuses me why they play it.

That’s another issue.
Saying “kits are perfect” is far from the truth.

Kits have a lot of problems.

And making kits work as intended, is not making changing the game or redesigning anything.

LoreChief.8391:

You mean to say that only when the random buff trigger grants frenzy you get 5s, but zephyr and haste still only give 4s?

I’m a bit confused, because I always thought it would last 5s regardless, you’d just get a random debuff from the other various quickness skills in other professions.

Essentially.

If its frenzy, it lasts 5s.

If its haste or quickening zephyr, its 4s.

Before this patch, it was always 4s, despite the tooltip.

So before, 100% of the time, it was wrong. Now its right 33% of the time.

Jordan.6157:

Engineer’s have kits. This is how they are made and meant to be played. It works perfectly and needs no changing. If you don’t like it don’t play Engineer. This is how the profession is. If you don’t like how the profession is why are you playing it?

We simply dont have enough weps aswell for wep swapping. Everyone will be rocking the same kitten. Just lame.

Perfectly?

Good joke mate.

I bet you think its intended that kits ignore weapon stats, sigils and discourage engineers from using toolbelts with kits equipped.

Just as intended…

Iceburns.8561:

You do get nerfed in PvP cause you don’t get sigil boons.

Right, but that is applied in PvE as well.

The situation is:

PvE= no stats, no sigils.
PvP= no sigils.

So you can’t argue that stats in PvE would be OP since it isn’t for PvP.

As for sigils, Anet promised back in the thread when they removed backdraft from the flamethrower, that they were working on sigils affecting kits. So it is coming. They never put a date on it though.

Felt this needed its own thread since its a pretty important change that was reported, but it will likely get buried in the bug and patch note threads.

Basically: since before the patch, elixir U was not working as intended. It said 5s, but only did 4s of quickness.

Now however, frenzy from elixir U works as intended. Giving 5 seconds. With haste and quickening zephyr, still being bugged.

This adds an RNG again to the skill.

May want to re-evaluate the skill since it works differently now.

1s of quickness and 1s of 50% more damage is pretty important.

Levetty.1279:

You do realize that if Weapon kits got stats from weapons they would have to nerf the skills to be in line with normal weapons right?

Demonstrably wrong.

Kits don’t get nerfed in PvP.

Ergo, if kits are fine in PvP, then kits getting stats in PvE must be equally fine.

Did more testing.

I was wrong about elixir U.

Problem isn’t potent elixirs.

Problem is RNG.

Haste is 4s long
Quickening zephyr is 4s long
Frenzy is 5s long.

What a joke…

Few new bugs with the new changes:

Grenadier+Grenade Kit:
Using freeze grenade, then swapping grenadier out, instantly recharges freeze grenade, and swapping it back in, goes back to the old cooldown.

Elixir X+Elite Supplies+Potent Elixirs
Don’t stack, but work individually on elixir X.

EDIT:

Problem is with elixir U itself, not with potent elixirs.

Elixir U has the problem of:

Haste and Quickening Zephyr being wrong duration, with only frenzy working as intended.

They fixed elixir U- it now has 5 seconds of duration as the tooltip says.

However, I found another bug:

Elixir U+potent elixirs= 4s duration.

Seems they nerfed elixir X.

You can no longer retain the stability after using it and leaving the transformation early.

Why would anyone use this horrible elite?

This was a nice QoL change. Nice of you arenanet, only a couple of months late.

But really, the real reason kits suck, the reason engineers don’t use toolbelts with kits equipped, wasn’t because of auto attacks, it was because of losing stats and sigils.

Fix that please.

Found another bug…

Elite supplies and potent elixirs raise the duration of elixir X by 20%

But they don’t stack.

Using both gives you a simple 20%. Using either gives you the same.

Freeze grenade thing is a total lie.

I still throw 3 grenades.

And a weird bug…

If I swap in grenadier, while normal freeze grenade is on cooldown, it comes off it, and vice versa.

It seems like there are literally, two versions of freeze grenade, the grenadier version, and the normal version.

I do think OP is onto a bug that I’ve noticed occasionally.

Sometimes I notice that it revives instantly, when in reality, you never enter downed with 80% or higher HP, so it shouldn’t be doing that.

I doubt the instant revives are intended, but the longer ones are.

BakBakaa.2453:

Hebee.8460:

Here is my 80 Charr

http://i.imgur.com/x71Ql.jpg

(I couldn’t get the attachment to work )

That is a cool armor compilation @Hebee ! What is the name of that coat? I have seen a few engineers with it and think it has just he right amount of awesome

I believe it was ‘rascals’, a set of crafted armour.

I’ve noticed that elementalist attunements are really weirdly designed.

Skills tend to be extremely one dimensional.

“Damage”
“Damage”
“Blind”
“Root”
“Bleed”

I think it is more for how attunements are designed, where no one attunement should be equal quite to a normal weapon of another class.

I would go for knights, or soldiers gear.

Knights being power precision and toughness.

Soldiers being power toughness and vitality.

Soldiers gear is a bit harder to get, since it is usually from dungeon sets and from karma vendors, but it does exist.

Depends on whether you want to live, or kill more.

But either set should work for that build.

Hard is good.

Its artificial difficulty that I am offended by.

By overloading a boss with HP, with one shots and so on.
Its not interesting mechanics and skill that overcomes him, its cheese and abuse.

Its not a mistake or a lack of understanding that kills you, its artificial difficulty.

A boss with 50,000 HP is not in all cases more difficult than the same one which has 25,000 HP

MassRelay.9327:

Question on the numbers you see while channeling the flame: Those are a CUMULATIVE total of damage done, not INDIVIDUAL damage of each hit, correct?

Yeah.

A lot of people got confused by that when the change was made. Confused me too :P

Charr strong?

Yeah man, look at how they took ebonhawke.

How about this for jump shot.

If you jump to someone, and hit someone, it does say… 50 damage. Upon landing, it does 50 more.

However, if you jump, and hit no one, upon landing it does 100 damage.

Could work to make it more of a mobility tool.

Ender.3508:

No, you are assuming quite a bit. Like I already explained, if 3 people can run a dungeon legit in just 2 minutes over the speed clear threshold, then 5 could do it drastically quicker. As, I gain mastery of the paths in a dungeon I want to see how fast my group and I could complete it, and I don’t think that speed running is something that should be punished, especially since it doesn’t punish exploiters, because they’ll just wait 10-20 minutes before triggering the final event.

So stop with the assumptions and re-read what I wrote with the intention of understanding it, or simply leave the thread.

Question: Have you ever been affected by this or are you simply complaining about a myth?

Because I seem to recall them saying that if you do it fast it ought not to be an issue, just if you do it fast lots of times.

TheOSC.7659:

Lyuben.2613:

Its fairly obvious isn’t it?

You’re acting as if this was imposed on you without explanation.
As if you are discovering the truth about some horrid conspiracy.

Here it is though:

Time punishment= for exploits.
Path punishment= for encouraging variety.

I think the big issue is that you are not encouraged to run multiple paths when trying to get a set of gear. Right now I am trying to get the SE gear for my Warrior (Power,Toughness, Precision) and it is the only set that has those stats. So, Naturally I want to run that 1 dungeon more than any others. This leads to lack of diversity even with DR.

IIRC Arah also has that gear.

And you aren’t really meant to get it THAT easily.

If you run all 3 paths, its 180.

1380 is the full for a set.

Should take you 7-8 days to get it.

Seems reasonable to me. And that’s if you only do the 3 a day.

Ender.3508:

Umm, who is complaining? Is your reading comprehension really so poor that you are incapable seeing that I was asking what ArenaNet was trying to accomplish with the second part of the DR algorithm? As it stands, your response is irrelevant because it doesn’t come close to addressing anything I wrote in the topic.

Its fairly obvious isn’t it?

You’re acting as if this was imposed on you without explanation.
As if you are discovering the truth about some horrid conspiracy.

Here it is though:

Time punishment= for exploits.
Path punishment= for encouraging variety.

The cave troll is actually easy.

Trick is to kite him since he had no ranged attacks, and his stomp is absurdly easy to move out of.

You really ought to factor something in.

Before the DR system, dungeons were 30 a pop.

Now, you are complaining about getting 45 instead of 60?

If you run all of the paths twice, you are going to get way more than it was before DR.

I think its honestly fine.

This event feels a bit.. day and night.

I’ve done it a couple of times now, and well, the time I did it today, was amazing, easy and smooth.

The time I did it a few days ago was a nightmare.

Why?
This event punishes conditions players, and praises DD players.

Now, today I ran with a group that consisted of:

GS DD Warrior
DD Thief
DD Grenadier Engineer- Me
DD Grenadier Engineer- Other guy
Minion Master Necro

And during the time, the necro had a DC, and we only had 4 players. Well it was so smooth and so efficient, that every time a mound opened, we all literally ran to it and cleared it in under 10 seconds, with huge AoE from the warrior and engineers, killing the enemies and the mound. And then waiting a few seconds for the last one. Not a single downing, not a single scratch on the pylons.

During the last 10% we just waited for the event to finish since no mounds would spawn, with just 4 players.

Now contrast this with a run I did 2 days ago, where a large part of the group was more conditions orientated, and we wiped 3 times, and got it on the 4th with one of the pylons falling.

I really think Arenanet need to make the burrows suffer from condition damage. Maybe raise their health a bit to compensate for the extra damage they can take too.

To be fair, I use it more for the daytime look.

But it would be nice if they fixed it up.

Think I’m finalizing my look now.

Its weird though… I have all the common dyes unlocked, and a large chunk of the rare and uncommon ones. Yet all I use are leathery brown ones.

ROGUEbabydoll.4208:

actually, to be honest… humans are the worst race in tyria, lore wise. they got magic and abused it. they killed for fun, for evil. they raided ascalon and took it from the charr (who were actually there first.. the gods created them), killing a lot of them in the process.

long story short, humans deserved it.

“Tyria flourished under the protection and the care of the gods. To aid them and serve as caretakers, the gods had servants – a race of serpentine creatures, now called the Forgotten. The Forgotten were meant to shepherd, teach, and care for the growing world, as well as the other beings that were to come.

It wasn’t long before Tyria was home to many: the charr, tengu, minotaur, dwarves, centaur and others. Finally, another race came to Tyria and they brought with them a desire for domination. They were humans.

Humans quickly spread and began to conquer all the lands they encountered.

… They clearcut jungles, preyed upon other creatures, and invaded the domains of the other races. This was when the humans drove the charr from their homeland, the region of Ascalon."

ascalon was and is 100% without a doubt charr homeland. the humans took that away from them. i completely understand them fighting for it back.

Self hating humans?
Terrible!

Taking Ascalon from the Charr is no different than taking Australia from the Kangaroos, or Europe from the wolves. Charr were simply savage and uncivilized, like the flaura and fauna around the place.

I hardly think that the sylvari trees belong to the spiders simply because the spiders were there first.

Shimond.2478:

Of course if you mean the specific ‘weapon swap’ mechanic, sure. What I’m saying is what the engineer has is better than that (sigils notwithstanding – I chalk that up to my ‘main weapon not counting’ issue).

Truly, engineers do not need ‘weapon swap’.

I disagree.

The reason we don’t have weapon swapping, isn’t to nerf some arbitrary balance concern with kits. Its simply an old outdated mechanic being used for them.

So, is a real thing to be concerned with weapon swapping, but the real issue that causes it, is that kits are not treated as weapons at all.

I’m pretty sure it would be hugely redundant and silly to allow pistol/rifle swapping, the two weapons are simply far too opposed. It would have no meaning and it would waste resources.

But the real problem is, that kits which are supposedly the thing compensating for the lack of a real weapon swap mechanic, fail to do so. Kits simply are inferior versions of weapons, and that isn’t right.

Shimond.2478:

Lyuben.2613:

You may not feel a lack, but you have one.

Mechanically, an engineer will never weapon swap.

Kit dropping and picking up kits, does not count under existing game mechanics, wish that be the case as I may.

As I gain swiftness and vigor everytime I switch kits, I beg to differ. I ‘feel’ the swap quite clearly in my build. I understand other engineers do not.

Perhaps having played elementalist and guardian extensively gives me a different viewpoint than you all. The only issue I have with kits is losing the weapon stats.

Gaining vigor and swiftness=/=weapon swapping.

Use a sigil that says “on weapon swap” with the engineer. Then tell me we have weapon swapping.

We have bundle dropping/bundle picking up.

Its different.
You have to have 2 weapons, to weapon swap.