Guild Wars 2

coglin.1496:

Lyuben.2613:

wintermute.4096:

Dude, there are like 5 threads about it on the first page alone.

And arenanet have known about it since BWE1.

You’d think they might… address it?

Would certainly stop the number of threads.

Since they have addressed it, on some of the earlier threads that this one replicates, and a few other places, there really isn’t an issue, other then the fixes not being out yet.

I’ve not seen them address it. Certainly not recently.

Its a pretty big issue too, and it is the most common topic of the engineer so, for them to keep so quiet about it is pretty weird. They certainly need to give an update on this.

wintermute.4096:

Dude, there are like 5 threads about it on the first page alone.

And arenanet have known about it since BWE1.

You’d think they might… address it?

Would certainly stop the number of threads.

gkaare.8576:

Engineer actually is the least played class according to information posted by Arenanet a month or so ago (Mesmers have gained huge popularity since then). But the class is definitely not weak.

Engineer is one of the hardest classes to play well. However, to say that we’re one of the worst classes is just wrong. We may not be as strong as Thief, Guardian, or Mesmer but I think we’re in one of the best spots. We’re very viable in PvE, WvW, and tPvP; what more could you ask for?

What class doesn’t have a lot of bugs and broken aspects right now? Once Engineers are a bit more tuned and bugs are fixed, I would bet that we’re going to see some nerfs.

I don’t think they are hard to play. I think they are simply ‘odd’ as they don’t have a lot that other professions are given.

Like, most professions get their full profession mechanic at level 7. The engineer gets his fully, at level 20.

Most professions have weapon swapping, and the benefits its gives. The engineer doesn’t.

So, what is unorthodox, is seen as complex and difficult.

In reality, the top end builds like grenades, elixirs and so on aren’t hard at all to play.

I believe that people are just turned off from the engineer because they are so weird, not because they are hard. A lot of classes I see as being much harder. Necro is much harder, with a worse balance situation yet supposedly are more popular.

And watch it all die down, with no posts for months after today.

coglin.1496:

I see a lot of comments made about condition damage that are not entirely accurate. Several post mentioning condition damage appear to fail to include the base direct damage of the attack as well. just throwing that out there.

What isn’t accurate? You have fingers, you have a keyboard, you have managed to type so far. What is wrong? Saying “you’re wrong”, is not an argument.

And when factoring in the base direct damage of the attack, well, that’s the very point of this argument with the flamethrower kit. Which is worth it more? The conditions, assuming you stack crit, or power.

Numbers seem to indicate power.

You seem to be forgetting that conditions still do damage, even if you don’t waste stats on them.

Power and precision.

Only one skill scales well with condition damage, and that is shrapnel grenade.

Everything else, either scales well with power, or with condition duration.

I’d go berserker/knights gear. I prefer knights honestly.

Hey, I have every respect for weakness and poison. But they benefit more from condition duration, rather than damage, since poison doesn’t stack and ticks for what counts as two bleeds. So, in the end, I don’t see your point.

Plus, the flamethrower can’t confuse, weaken or poison.

What are you on about?

How can you disagree with facts though?

At least give one situation where 2k over 4s is superior to 3k up front.

arrownin.3128:

Lyuben.2613:

They still have bugs reported in BWE1. Clearly if that is the case, they haven’t done enough.

Engineers aren’t underpowered, but they have few viable specs.

Its real easy to say ‘engineers are fine l2p’ while you use a grenade kit build with elixirs. But outside that? Its all pretty weak.

Its a bit like the communist countries of old. There is no middle class. Either you have great damage/utility or none.

I actually don’t really like grenades. I get around fine using elixir gun, elixir R, and bomb kit, but then again I am playing as more of a support role.

Yep, that’s one of the approved builds. I’ve used it myself, its quite fun if you have full cleric.

Try making a viable turret build.
Try making a gadget build that can’t be done better with kits and elixirs.
Try making a flamethrower build that matches the damage of grenades.
Try making melee build for the toolkit, and see how long you last.

Plus, lets not forget how we only have effectively one elite skill.

Eles are quite fine. No idea why people think they are weak or bad.

They just happen to suffer from a huge hybrid tax. Well, the hybrid tax pays for your versatility so, I don’t get eles who want to be uber max damage, and then pretend they don’t have earth attunement, and just ignore their water attunement.

They still have bugs reported in BWE1. Clearly if that is the case, they haven’t done enough.

Engineers aren’t underpowered, but they have few viable specs.

Its real easy to say ‘engineers are fine l2p’ while you use a grenade kit build with elixirs. But outside that? Its all pretty weak.

Its a bit like the communist countries of old. There is no middle class. Either you have great damage/utility or none.

Yeah conditions, not only suffer from poor damage, but also from poor group use and PvE use.

5 conditions people vs a boss= 1 useful person
5 power people vs a boss= 5 useful people

Plus, vs structures, where conditions do nothing, then you are totally useless.

Try doing the AC path 3 burrow event with 5 full condition damage/toughness and precision engineers. See how fun and good that works out for you.

even if we can’t post in every thread.

That implies you have posted in threads.

Also the new post offers no info.

It just says effectively “pls don’t go, we promise to be nice”

I don’t understand how anyone can be pleased by this.

I’d like to see a centaur themed one.

Top of Harathi Hinterlands.

Open at all times, except for the important active meta event portions.

For me, in the majority of cases, level 80s are better players.

But in reality, I find that achievement score is a good indicator of experience, as it can show if you have a main or not.

If I see some level 35 thief, with 263 achievement points… I might not let you in.

Cyricus.2981:

Lyuben.2613:

Power based.

Burn isn’t all that great of a condition, only in solo PvE does it stand out since any old random Ele with 0 condition damage can stack a minute of it with one rotation and you won’t see it tick once for you.

Bleeding, its quite good at, but really, without sigil of earth, the bleeds are very short duration and too rare to be a significant damage source.

Yep… its a power weapon. A well lined up flame blast is very strong burst.

No, not really. It can be focused either way, focusing on condition crit procs (would be nice to have the sigil proc bleed work in there for sure, or even chill for a debuff build) or straight up power. Either can work. In fact, it’s excellent and more akin for a hybrid/mix of the two and stacking might buffs, which boosts both areas. That seems to be what it was designed to do, for a constant stream of sustained damage in both areas.

Also, burn is our strongest damage condition as an engineer, I would not count that out. Bleeds are the weakest condition for an engineer and are pretty much bonus damage that much is true, but it’s not your main focus. Sure, if you have a ton of people applying burn it becomes less useful, but outside of bosses/tough mobs, when does that happen?

Relying on burns + sharpshooter does not make for a good damage. Burn as a condition, is not strong in a group setting.

Sharpshooter itself is 30% on a crit. Crits themselves are not 100% so it has a low proc rate, and the bleed it gives is very short duration.

Power builds don’t rely on RNG and just do lots of damage.

Thinking of adding bone minions to my build for the blast damage and blast finisher.

How bad are they untraited? Does the ‘blow up’ part of the skill need the 20% damage trait? What about flesh golem. How good would it be without the minion traits?

Plus, isn’t Putrid Mark essentially very similar the well that removes conditions in a way?

Is there any advantage in taking the well, or does putrid mark do the same job without needing a long cooldown and a utility slot?

Power based.

Burn isn’t all that great of a condition, only in solo PvE does it stand out since any old random Ele with 0 condition damage can stack a minute of it with one rotation and you won’t see it tick once for you.

Bleeding, its quite good at, but really, without sigil of earth, the bleeds are very short duration and too rare to be a significant damage source.

Yep… its a power weapon. A well lined up flame blast is very strong burst.

Speaking of aerodynamic grenades… I think Anet stuck a bit too close to reality with them in some cases.

In HoTW there is a bit with a bridge which has a ‘roof’ on top of it.

If you try to throw grenades above the range of 450 or so, they hit the roof. So grenades don’t ever hit.

Having the ceiling affect gameplay is pretty stupid.

Cyricus.2981:

Also, Spectral Grasp is typically not worth slotting in most situations. The best use for it is WvW for picking off runners or over extending opponents. It has a cast time, which makes it trickier to get off as well. Not useful for pve at all really and in instanced pvp, you have better options as you should be hanging around nodes most of the time in a limited area and capping things. If you made a build based purely on stacking chill, it could have it’s merits, but outside of that, waste of a slot most of the time.

I’ve used it already and I see quite a few merits in it actually.

Well timed, and well executed, in a dungeon it is fantastic. A necro using to pick off a knight in TA for example, was invaluable.

Plus, the chill and life force are nice enough when it fails.

Trouble with power builds for me is the utilities.

Not sure how it would work in a build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAndWjMaV7hbabMcKCpCPbqw3gekr3XLKFwbdA

Could work perhaps? Wells seem like they need too much investment for what is in effect quite poor.

IIRC, it works pretty much by:

Toughness level
Vitality level
Presence of shield
Proximity
Presence of certain conditions. Cripple and chill are huge aggro dumps. Crippled and chilled things tend to attack by proximity, and don’t care about much else.

With my mesmer, I have 0 toughness invested in my build. I hardly ever get targeted.
With my engineer, I have full exotic knights gear. I never get left alone.

I died once in HoTW, respawned while my party were still fighting, ran back to the boss ,and the moment I did anything, he just went back to hitting me. It was scary.

Hey there. I’m having trouble with what build I want to play as basically. I’ve noticed that while the necro is pretty bad when it comes to bugs and balance, they have quite a bit more in terms of potential builds.

What I’m wondering is, what do I go for?

I like in general, power builds most, as they don’t face the problems conditions do, and you have a lot more freedom for power builds in your trinkets tabs. Plus, with the necro, power is better for death shroud, since skill 1 and 4 are quite power intensive.

However, I notice that there isn’t really any clear utilities that go for a power build and how to trait for them, and trait synergies themselves are sort of lacking. Seems fairly hard to pull one off. I’d assume that you have to go for axe+something with staff and use DS for big time nuking. The right gear is pretty hard to pick too, since I am assuming that berserker is necessary, and that leaves you pretty empty of defensive stats.

There is also the minion master build. Pretty iconic, and minions have their uses as meat shields, condition sponges and so on. Plus, since they don’t scale with stats, I don’t have to worry about gearing any particular way. I can go conditions and power builds and get similar results with the minions.

However, I’m a tad worried about the god awful AI, and the QoL issues like the lack of a regen and the summoning times. Plus in dungeons, they are very good at pulling things, which I am not a fan of.

There is of course also, the famous conditions build. This build is probably what the necromancer is best at, conditions. With the scepter and dagger, and a lot of corruptions/signets, it allow them to put a lot of conditions and melt the enemy.

But as I’ve mentioned in another thread, it has the issues of it being a conditions build. It isn’t effective at big boss fights, and against structures its quite bad. I don’t like that one bit.

Other builds could be a lifesteal build, around the dagger and a lot of points in blood magic. And a well build for support.

But really, I’m not so sure what works best.

If anyone could offer some advice on what works, and how to make the most of what I have, I would really appreciate it.

Me? I’d make skills 1-4 different, but identical and skill 5 exactly the same.

Skill 1-4 would be a 15s CD ‘bandage’, which heals for what it does now, and removes one condition. So essentially, it merges antidote with the bandage, and ups the cooldown a tad.

joykafka.4308:

Sorry, Lyuben.

As you described, engie isn’t worth the time playing at all.

Well, I enjoy the game with all the weapons and kits you mentioned. I repetitively use the so-called redundant skills to keep the distance. Likewise, I repetitively use the so-called redundant skills to keep myself secure in melee without moving at all. I hope the status quo not to be changed.

As for me, the design of Engineers is rather great, and I can’t see the problems you saw. I believe you are more experienced than I am and I am sorry that I am unable to help you with your questions. I have squeezed out all that I knew.

Happy gaming,

Are you capable of reading? Do you understand what reading comprehension is? Well I recommend taking a course in it.

Read the OP.

Everything you just said is wrong, and addressed by the OP.

I never said I think that skills are ‘redundant’ on their own. They are redundant as a whole and as a list because they do very similar things.

I don’t have a problem with the bomb kit. I don’t have a problem with the flamethrower. I don’t have a problem with the rifle. I don’t have a problem with the grenade kit.

I have a problem that they as a whole do very similar things. If you had bothered to read, you would have understood that, but who needs reading right?

I’ve played the engineer since the very first betas, reported many and numerous issues and it is still my main today. If you think that having a problem with something means that you are not allowed to play it, then you need to start living in the real world, because that is a very illogical and silly position to have, so I’d reconsider your views.

Wells are disappointing.

Smoke bomb from the bomb kit in engineer is better than well of darkness, and it has the advantage of having the other bombs as well.

They need buffs.

Why would you forget about other classes? What about design means you can’t compare design of classes? There is no logic in that.

And to say that engineers have 1500+ is false. Grenades CAN go that far, but they are not viable or effective at that range for very obvious reasons you would find out about, if you took the time to use them in PvE and PvP.

Other classes are designed so that the weapons they have access to, fulfill numerous ranges. Engineers don’t have that advantage. Its all close range with the engineer.

You say you like to keep distance, but with what? What kit and what tool do you use to keep distance? If you use the rifle, well then you’re performing pretty poorly. Since the auto attack is the only reliable ranged attack on the rifle. Pistol? You won’t get the most of your PDV and offhand weapon. Elixir gun? Perhaps you could, however, it still works better at a melee range due to fumigate, elixir Fs bounces, and acid bomb.

But that’s just saying that something is X because it is Y.

Signets are specific things. Passive effect is on, and later turned off when the active is used and on cooldown.

You can’t say that you have signets already because they provide a passive. Gaining vigor+swiftness has about as much to do with signets, as hip shot. Nothing at all.

Yukishiro.8792:

The trait system accomplishes that right now. Speedy kits, kit refinement, vigor with speedy kits, regen with kit equip, etc.

I take it you don’t know how signets work.

joykafka.4308:

I like the uniqueness and exception that only engineers have the privilege to. Don’t exchange our rare ability with other common abilities.

You don’t have to.

I’ve suggested and others have too, to give gadgets the passive component that signets have either normally, or by a trait.

joykafka.4308:

Lyuben.2613:

Its not about being able to stay at 1200 range, its about being effective at that.

An engineer with a flamethrower is not rewarded for staying at a 1200 range because he can do kitten all at that range.

A staff necro can hit you with all his skills easily at that range.

In all cases, being able to be at a greater range, is better than being at a shorter range. Since being in melee range of anything, is pretty stupid unless your exclusive goal is to melee. Problem is, engineers don’t have such a long range tool. Neither do thieves I should add, but that’s really their problem.

So you are saying you can’t beat a necro as an engie?

I’m saying I would like the option the necro has.

The point of this thread is that pretty much all the kits and weapons work at the same range, which is redundant. I’m saying I’d prefer it if things were not so similar, and they instead had some variety.

I have no clue what you read to make you think I was talking about balance. I’m talking about design here.

joykafka.4308:

Exactly, that’s why gaming is fun.

Who are you quoting?

I had fun with an alchemy flamethrower build.

10
30
0
30
0

Rifle, elixir H, elixir B, elixir R, flamethrower, supply crate

Power and crit and crit damage.

The conditions they leave tend to work best with condition duration, not with condition damage.

Bleed on the shrapnel grenade yes works best with condition damage, but that’s sort of it.

Poison, blind, chill and vuln work better with duration.

joykafka.4308:

Lyuben,

Playing game is more fun

The elixirs are different. Perhaps it would be fun if you try to figure out yourself in game.

As for 1500 range:
- mortar: 1640 ~ 1740
- turret, grenade, etc, up to about 1440 I think

I am not interested in comparing a submarine to a space shuttle. As you pointed out already there are so many other classes that perform so much better in longer range, why shall engineers do the same? Shouldn’t there be a few classes that do something different?

As for the elixirs, they have different uses. I simply don’t see any redundancies or inadequacies as you described. They are differently useful. Perhaps we just find the variety very useful, and we don’t see them all as only a stun breaker. You need nothing but a stun breaker, while we need all the rest. I am sorry that you cannot enjoy playing an engie.

Happy gaming,

Having a 1500 range does not mean it works at that range.

Grenades and mortar are very slow in their targetting, so are only effective against completely static enemies at that range.

Even PvE bosses move sometimes.

Its not about being able to stay at 1200 range, its about being effective at that.

An engineer with a flamethrower is not rewarded for staying at a 1200 range because he can do kitten all at that range.

A staff necro can hit you with all his skills easily at that range.

In all cases, being able to be at a greater range, is better than being at a shorter range. Since being in melee range of anything, is pretty stupid unless your exclusive goal is to melee. Problem is, engineers don’t have such a long range tool. Neither do thieves I should add, but that’s really their problem.

Lande.5782:

Alright, so you want to ignore the majority of the lore surrounding the Charr and say they want to blinding worship any powerful being.

In that case you have a very boring enemy.

Dude, the point of wanting them to be the main enemy obviously means that you have to ignore the lore that affects them now… it should have been fairly obvious to you.

You can’t have a parallel universe where Charr are the main enemy, and somehow you want the lore from now to affect them. Different time, different lore.

And I don’t think they would be boring. Undead are boring. Charr would be much better.

After playing through more stories, I honestly think that its more of an issue with romance, not with gay romance.

They all suck.

Its terrible writing.

All it consists of is “my lover” and “my sweet!”

That’s all we get to tell us that they are in love. So, people are probably thinking that a pretty terribly executed gay romance plot is because its gay. The truth is, its terrible because its a romance plot. Arenanet can’t write them.

Shield of the moon was so… stupid for this for example.

Dick move that was from their part.

Makes me paranoid to do pugs.

I’ve screenshotted people sometimes… just in case they plan to kick me. Hope they get banned.

Dice Dragon.4326:

Lyuben.2613:

I’ll be blunt.

Avoid turrets.
Avoid gadgets.

As good as they can be in extreme niché builds, the potential of elixirs in utility and support, is just so much better.

Same with kits. A single kit can offer a lot more than any turret or gadget.

That should be your basis for an engineer.

In terms of damage, your options are either elixir gun and pistol/shield and pistol/pistol, for conditions.

And for direct damage, go with rifle and grenade kit/flamethrower.

That’s the general tips I can give.

Gadgets have good toolbelt skills.

Rocket kick(rocketboots)->Good damage and a 5 second burn on a 20second base CD, which can be lowered with tools.

Anylzye(goggles)->10% more damage is pretty dang good imo.

Launch PBR->This skill has such a low CD and decent damage its a surprise its never used tbh.

Mine field(mines)->AoE bombs waiting to be set off.

You can run a rifle/gadget set up, that with Static shock, that can let you really destroy mobs.

Sadly, Grenades are op as heck. And Gadgets while being pretty cool under certain set ups, are really niche.

The problem with gadgets is, you can often find their desired effects within elixirs, and within kits.

And since elixirs and kits can be traited and are capable of so much more, they are better to pick.

Want a stun breaker? Why go utility goggles?

Go for elixir S, trait it so that it is shorter cooldown, removes conditions and gives might.
Want a knockback?
Go for the flamethrower. 15s cooldown on air blast as opposed to the 45s cooldown on PBRs launch.

Gadgets only really work in extreme niché builds. Never in general builds. They are simply eclipsed by traited elixirs, and kits.

That’s not really farr Joykafka, since signets are not exclusive to one class, but rather 7/8 of them.

I don’t find it weird that engineers lack shouts, since only 3/8 professions have shouts, but I do find it weird that 7/8 have access to signets. It makes the 1/8 the exception.

So, saying that a case where 1/8 has access to bombs therefore that means that others should have it, isn’t a fair point.

Saying that 7/8 has access to signets, and therefore one more should have it, is pretty fair.

Though, I will concede that engineers are weird in this respect.

7/8 professions are able to use ‘on swap’ sigils, but not engineers.
So, maybe the devs like arbitrarily stopping the engineer from using certain things.

And on the topic of magic, nowhere does it say engineers don’t use magic. They may not have magical powers, but neither does a warrior. And he uses signets.

Its completely illogical to not believe in and not use magic in a world where it so obviously exists.

joykafka.4308:

Regarding the “melee” issues, when we can cover the distance from 120 to 1500 and are still considered melee, I believe it’s pretty fair most classes throughout this game are melee?

I tend to think at least engies are more a hybrid that can control the distance better than some other classes?

Some of us like to jump in for a few high dmg output and then either jump out or knock the mobs back; while some others will just keep a distance and use ranged weapons. 450 is already a distance, if a distance that can’t be reached by mob is called not melee, then it’s either an exploit or not fun. at least in my eyes.

I like we have many possibilities of skill combinations. We don’t need to use the same stun breakers. They can match other skills or other play styles better. I believe we need them all.

1500 range? With what?

The fact of the matter is, all kits and weapons work best at melee range.

Saying that you CAN use it at 1000+ range, is like saying that you can use hip shot at 1000 range. Well, you can, but its not the most efficient or optimal use for the rifle.

And saying that 450 is not melee is not a good point. I wasn’t saying that engineers are exclusively melee in operation, rather, short range. Which is around 600 and under. At that range, gap closers are extremely easy to hit.

A necromancers staff, a mesmers greatsword and staff, an elementalist staff, a warrior rifle and longbow, a ranger longbow and a guardians scepter are true long ranged weapons that do not become less effective with long range.

And you say that stun breakers can match different playstyles, but what playstyles? If you need a stun break, why do you care if its elixir S, R, Rocket boots or Utility Goggles? If you want elixir Rs toolbelt, then you aren’t getting it for the stun break, you’re getting it for the toolbelt.

Dice Dragon.4326:

Lyuben.2613:

Another thing I’ve noticed. Look at some stun breakers. We have 4, quite a lot for a class. Why do we need 4? Elixir S gives 3s of invuln. That’s fine. Elixir R gives two guaranteed dodges, that’s pretty much 3s of evade right there. Rocket boots creates huge distance.

look at the toss versions of these skills, S can give stability and other things, its much more then a simple stun break. R can up downed allies, much more then a stun breaker.

Rocket boots also cures movement hindering things letting you not only remove stun, but remove chill, cripple etc. this skills are strong because they are MORE then stun breakers by a large margin.

I suppose that their toolbelt skills are quite different, but do we really need 4 stun breakers?

As mentioned above, kinda yeah. Lol

In turrets too.

Flame turret gives burning in an AoE fashion. Trouble is, rocket turret also burns in an AoE fashion, with more DD damage.

Why do we need two turrets that do AoE burning? Ideally, they should make the rocket turret do some other condition and have some other effect.

There isn’t really much reason to take a flame turret currently. If you want a smoke combo field, bomb kit is much better.

But what ive im a turret spec not a bomb spec? I can now access a smoke field without bomb kit, and can deto my turrets for aoe stealth if im in a pickle.

I do concede that its damage is lacking on flame turret though, rocket turret is hands down, the best turret.

My answers in bold in above quote.

Bomb kit has a blast finisher, and smoke field on a shorter cooldown than the flame turret.

I understand and acknowledge that toolbelts are differentiated. But you don’t need 4 very similar utilities, to get 4 unique and different toolbelts. You can make for example, utility goggles different and have a different purpose, and leave rocket boots as the ‘gadget’ stun break. You could make it so that elixir R does something else, that isn’t a stun break, so that elixir S is the ‘elixir’ stun break.

You can very easily have interesting toolbelts and interesting utilities.

Well thanks guys.

Guess there is no hope with a conditions build.

Gonna have to change things to do what power builds do naturally.

Seriously… do power builds have any disadvantage when compared to condition builds?

5 power builds= 5 useful people.
5 condition builds= 4 useless people
5 power builds= 5 people hitting structures
5 condition builds= 5 people tickling structures

CriSPeH.8512:

Not my claim.
Thts just what it says in the Wiki.
Something along the lines of, Signets are magic and Engineers are against magic.
I found it when I was trying to figure out why the hell I didnt have any passives.

What are you on about?

I looked on the wiki and it says only this

“The engineer is the only profession that does not have any signets.”

Nothing about magic. You made that up.

CriSPeH.8512:

Signets are magic and engineers dont use magic.
Some kind of passive effect would be nice though, maybe each kit could grant a passive effect or something but thats just wishing.

Who says engineers don’t use magic?

They appear to use a lot of magic material to make the likes of elixirs, and for the shield.

Plus, they surely have a bag of holding to be able to store so many bombs/grenades/ammo.

No.

Minor traits have the ‘trait’, of them being useful in 100% of builds to some degree.

Making it so that a minor trait benefits minions, goes away from this philosophy, as not all builds have a minion.

I went with a dark sylvari, with white hair… and while I did know about the glow, I forgot this time.

Ended up with a red glow.

It actually suits me :S

I don’t think a God worshiping Charr would have the technology. You could easily write in that the flame legion don’t think relying on technology is good, just on strength and power of the dragons.

Gryph.8237:

send your minions after it, especially the flesh golem. oh wait a minute, those things jut usually run up to the structure and stair at it, unless you blow their cooldown skill. SWEET!

I hate minions. I’m sorry