Guild Wars 2

Levitating Cat.8623:

I think personally I’d simplify your idea and tweak some things.
First of all, being able to regenerate HP and receiving heals from allies is a must in Death Shroud and should be implemented anyway, scratching the Unholy Sanctuary trait. Exactly as you propose – Regeneration boon and heals from allies should work in DS. Personal healing skills, healing utilities and even siphoning should not work in DS.
That alone would fix some issues.

No. If we have an entire trait line towards leeching, it needs to work through DS. Please refrain from advocating internal asynergy <3

The solutions is to give necros access to their utilities whilst in DS.

Wow. This idea is fantastic.

Too bad it probably would never happen ):

Also. Life transfer would make up to five people able to focus you, (And they’d be immune to your non SA allies?) which seems counter productive.

Oslaf Beinir.5842:

Thanks for the laugh I needed that

this was a joke right?

OP is obviously a master troll that can fool even the necro forums xD

Gryph.8237:

I think we should boycott these forums, and only post in reddit or other forums. I mean, they don’t care anyways, but it would at least show them that we do. Make these forums a ghost town until they improve our class, signficantly, and no bs about it.

Somehow I don’t think this would work.

Glenstorm.4059:

We’ve given them a bunch of new ideas for Tornado and begged for a change to make the skill useful for ages. There hasn’t been a red post here seeking feedback on potential reworks. I wouldn’t hold my breath.

It seems like eles are getting the Necromancer treatment.

Yay cold shoulders and teary eyes all around!

Such is the life of a necromancer.

No easymode 11 seconds of endure pain and berzerker stance.
No signet of stone
No mobility (without being creative of course).

GG hardcore mode !

^This makes me want to round up a bunch of necros with pitchforks and torches to get the guy standing between us and our deserved equality.

If our elites cease being transforms, we won’t lose utility access, we won’t lose minions on activation, and we will still have synergy with other spectral skills.

+1 ANet for change.

Rym.1469:

Conjured other professions.

Summon D/D Ele, Summon Shoutbow, Summon D/P Thief, Summon Celengineer, Summon Meditardian.

Dont forget

Summon PEWPEW ranger
Summon Sinister shatter mesmer

Given what we know, the following classes are the only ones with a chance of getting shouts:

necro 65%, ele 30%, thief 5%. (my assumption on how probable it would be)

The Human Stick.9310:

Maybe Im asking to change skills for the PvE aspect. Changing the warhorn for a more supportive role in PvE. Such as “Orders.”

But its cool. Ive lost all hope for the people in this game. All they care about is PvP and WvW, and it shows here.

You see, we are with you that necro needs support, even for pve. But asking for nerfs is not what necros need right now.

Just hold out until we get shouts. Maybe Anet’ll give us some decent group support with our elite spec.

/fingersCrossed

Shiki.7148:

Imho shouts, if necro gets them, should have both an effect on allies aswell as on enemies, like the mesmer wells. Eg. “Rending Shriek” : Damage + Bleed in a cone infront of the Necro, + give bleeding and cripple to allies within a radius of X.

I’m dying this is too good.

Even if the necro forum gods aren’t listening, you can take solace in knowing that at least one god hears your prayers.

RIP

Neither lich nor plague form allow spectral skills nor minions.

I for one await changes to them. TOO MUCH INTERNAL ASYNERGY with other aspects of the class.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Malchior.1928:

I’m going to keep spamming the solution to the clunkiness of Necromancers.

Psalm to Necro Internal Synergy:

1. Healing goes through deathshroud.
2. 6-10 useable in deathshroud.
3. Adjust as needed.

SOLVES LITERALLY EVERYTHING. TRY ME.

Still no answer to being focus-fired or team support.

I am currently number crunching the max sustain in a 2v5 setting for the necro assuming healing in ds and utilities as well. I plan on posting my findings soon.

As for team support. We can’t even support ourselves. I’m focusing on self sustain before talking groups. Im sure our elite spec will bring more group support with shouts so I’ll leave the support to some other self righteous necro.

I’m going to keep spamming the solution to the clunkiness of Necromancers.

Psalm to Necro Internal Synergy:

1. Healing goes through deathshroud.
2. 6-10 useable in deathshroud.
3. Adjust as needed.

SOLVES LITERALLY EVERYTHING. TRY ME.

spoj.9672:

If were gonna slap more skills in DS how about some which are actually useful instead of more useless stuff. Like active defence skills?

Spoj, are you referring to the above proposal by OP or by the introduction of utility skill usage while in DS ?

ronpierce.2760:

spoj.9672:

If were gonna slap more skills in DS how about some which are actually useful instead of more useless stuff. Like active defence skills?

A teleport is not useless.

And if we were to get a teleport, it would probably be dark path being reverted to ground targeted, however I think that this in itself is unlikely.

xgalaxy.7402:

Rising Dusk.2408:

The only thing they’d have to watch for is activations on skills like Signet of the Locust, where they heal you… and it probably wouldn’t work in Death Shroud.

They could just add an additional caveat to these skills that says something like ‘While in DS this doesn’t heal’. Or ‘While in DS this restores X% of percentage of life force’ instead of a heal.

Guys, don’t complicate things. No caveats.

1. Give us healing through deathshroud.
2. Give us utilities in deathshroud.
3. Balance as necessary.

These three steps will get rid of the asynergy currently present between healing, leeching, deathshroud, our defenses and utilities.

Numbers can be tweaked later, but we NEED to stop BLOCKING our own skills and traits.

Why should both ds and our utilities only be usable in complementary distribution?
We are not super man, we are necromancers. NO OTHER CLASS HAS THIS DESIGN OVERSIGHT.

We should always be able to access our utilities,
And our mechanic should only be limited to lifeforce, and its internal cooldown.

Erasmus.1624:

Malchior.1928:

I support baseline piercing. Staff 1 pierces. Lifeblast, the manifestation of pure Lifeforce channeled into a projectile, cannot pierce without a trait?

Great game design.

Flavor alone is not a valid basis for design.

It’s a good start.

Considering the horrid cast time and the after cast it needs a buff. Piercing as baseline is just one possible suggestion. No need to get sassy :p

I’m betting we get slow/taunt shout, a resistance/stability shout, a quickness shout maybe etc

The Human Stick.9310:

They have no party support utilities.

That’s why we’ll most likely get shouts.

Abimes.9726:

@Machior , I won’t ad these like that on the go , i have to think about it and see what would be the consequences of doing it that way. But ty for feed back , i’ll definatly think about it.

I realy try to respect every body’s ideas … but i’m Sure piercing have to be traited (like on all other classes.) , i could merge unyielding blast it into deathly perception (i have donne it before then undone it , because it could possibly be OP but i can rethink about it.)

I’ll leave this link to the post regarding why it should be baseline:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Unyielding-Blast-should-be-baseline/first#post5040379

Abimes ! Add this to your list of proposed changes:

-Lifeblast piercing is baseline.
-Add vuln stacking onto the Lifeblast might stacking trait. SYNERGY!

process execution.8014:

I think that a flat buff is acceptable given that what I’m proposing only buffs the areas where we’re underpowered (well, that’s the intent anyway). And locking it all away behind DS means that ANet can give us things they normally don’t like for necro (e.g. ground-targeted teleport or even invulns) because it offers counter-play through LF denial.

I think we are “underpowered” partially due to not having access to our utilities in DS. I’m not necessarily against having new 6-10 skills in the DS bar, however, I think a more flexible option that does adress our weaknesses would be to just let us use our utilities for slots 6-10.

Then we still have a heal, a condi cleanse, and any of the utilities we choose. It renders DS more flexible in that it stops limiting us unjustly.

That appears to be more utility than what we get from the proposed changes.

Let me rephrase that: “I do not believe ArenaNet’sPerceivedArgument is a sound enough reason to argue against necromancer getting internal synergy.”

:)

Let’s not internalize their fears and enable them. Prof. Mechanic SYNERGYYY!!!

This seems like an awful lot of work for a vanilla game class.

The effort and suggestion is nice, but I can’t plausibly see ANet doing this due to the resources it would take.

Specializations seem to be where the innovation is, outside of that, only a bit of QoL changes seem to really be occurring.

However, I really like your suggestions for:

Path of Midnight (Master) – Blind nearby enemies when entering and exiting Death Shroud.
Plague Touch (Master) – Transfer conditions to nearby enemies when entering Death Shroud.

Plague touch, could be useful in the blood line, and blinding on ds enter/exit would synergize with chill on blind, as well as help our survivability.

At this point, I want to be able to heal in deathshroud, I want to be able to use utilities in deathshroud, and given our lack of mobility or escapes, I think that this is fair.

We are deathlords. We have had our lows (META downstate builds), now let us make room for skillful play. Where’s the skillcap that arenaNet first attributed to us near launch?

Bring it back.

ronpierce.2760:

Malchior.1928:

ronpierce.2760:

I want to be able to resummon my 1.5 second cast minions in DS </3 T_T

Also, the problem with utilities is they’d still need to lock #6, even if we could heal in DS. I really don’t think people should be able to use their standard heal in DS. It just seems a little risky…

Interrupts would still stop it. There is counterplay. Warriors get to have healing signet tick while immune to damage and condis.

What seems to be the problem?

I just think it’s a big step ANet isn’t ready for. And frankly, I think I could see it being a little strong with Foot in the Grave as it’s like “NOPE, I’m healing right now!” Seems a tad too useful. Not saying i wouldn’t love it, just cautious. I’m so afraid of Necro being OP because of the last time that happened they nerfed EVERYTHING and did very little to revert it when they nerfed Dhuumfire down.

Everything got nerfed because of it… o.o

It seems to me that you’re against this progressive suggestion out of fear.
I don’t think that that is proper justification for dismissing 6 usage while in DS.

As necros, we have drawn the short straw from the start. I guess we might even think it’s op to be able to heal while in ds. But really, we’re just lacking perspective, as all we’ve ever known is NO UTILITIES IN DEATHSHROUD. NO HEALING IN DEATHSHROUD.

I say we step past that. And balance it after we take a step in the right direction.

#NecromancerEqualityPlease.

ronpierce.2760:

I want to be able to resummon my 1.5 second cast minions in DS </3 T_T

Also, the problem with utilities is they’d still need to lock #6, even if we could heal in DS. I really don’t think people should be able to use their standard heal in DS. It just seems a little risky…

Interrupts would still stop it. There is counterplay. Warriors get to have healing signet tick while immune to damage and condis.

What seems to be the problem?

process execution.8014:

I’m not saying it’s a bad idea (in fact I said I like the idea), I’m simply being realistic based on ANet’s past actions. It’s clear that ANet is worried that Death Shroud has the potential to turn necromancers into unkillable juggernauts, and they severely restrict its interactions with base game mechanics accordingly.

Whether or not this fear is justified or not is another topic. What I am suggesting is a compromise; a way for ANet to give us the utility and survivability we need from DS while still retaining a high degree of control over the form.

If we want to talk about being realistic:

7 out of 8 professions have defenses that scale. That is, the time they survive 1v1 and 1vX will be the same.

Necro is the only one where this is not the case.

1v8 kills a necro 8 times faster than 1v1.

Regardless of whether or not someone can use their utilities in deathshroud or get 3% life force per 3 seconds due to Signet of Undeath, that will NOT in any way, make the necro “an unkillable juggernaut”.

3% life force is equivalent to about 400 damage. An auto attack 1/2 second cast time) from someone in full nomad’s armor does more than that.

In the time it takes to get 3% life force (3 sec), the nomad user has done 2400 damage to you.

That is a net 2000 damage loss on the part of the necro.

I do not believe your argument is a sound enough reason to argue against necromancer getting internal synergy.

A class mechanic should not hinder the class.

INTERNAL SYNERGY
1. Utility skills in DS (6-10).
2. Healing goes through DS.

3. EVERYTHING ELSE: Blood line, minion AI fix, piercing lifeblast baseline, group support, projectile defense, lower cast times etc.

process execution.8014:

Bhawb.7408:

How about just allowing us to have our utilities while in DS. Let’s stop treating it like an entirely different form, and more like a weapon swap.

I like this idea in theory, but it creates the potential for unforeseen consequences that it seems ANet isn’t willing to spend resources on controlling e.g. Signet of the Locust or Signet of Undeath.

By fully locking down the skill bar, ANet have a far greater chance of balancing it correctly, and possibly even allowing it to feel a little OP by tweaking LF gain as required.

I realise that, regrettably, controlling minions in DS would still be impossible with this approach, but you could still benefit from the added versatility.

Your argument does not seem logical.

“unforeseen consequences that it seems ANet isn’t willing to spend resources on controlling e.g. Signet of the Locust or Signet of Undeath.”

I’m giving up a utility slot to take each one of them. why should they only work their passive 50% of the time.

EremiteAngel.9765:

how does it fare

Mmmm. No.

Zoso.8279:

Malchior.1928:

The only good thing about Necro is Spectral Walk. #NeverLeavesMyBar.

Figure out how to use it for everything.

Sadly 90% of the player base only use it for the speed buff to run away.

Fortunately for us, it should likely not get nerfed that way <3

At first I thought that it would be nice to add new skills for 6-10, but after a bit of musing around, I changed my assessment.

I would much rather have access to my utilities in DS.

That way, signets cease being broken, minions are still able to have their active abilities used, we can activate consume condition in DS to give us a condi removal (and a heal after they give us healing through DS), etc.

It would allow for a lot more skillful play than the current iteration does.

The only good thing about Necro is Spectral Walk. #NeverLeavesMyBar.

Figure out how to use it for everything.

Lyger.5429:

Why do people want necro to heal consistently in death shroud. From me PvP perspective that would be really op. I’m just curious cause I enjoy playing necro in PvP, PVE & WvW.

You think it is acceptable for a class mechanic to punish group play?

Current Necro: You have 100 hp. You use deathshroud to not die from a warrior’s evicerate. Ele comrade switches to water attunement. you get healed for 0. You run out of life force. And die.

Current warrior/guard/ele/engi: You have 100 hp. You use invuln to not die from a warrior’s evicerate. Ele comrade switches to water attunement. you get healed for 3k. You run out of invuln duration. You have just enough health to juke the warrior.

Current ranger/thief/mesmer: You have 100 hp. You use stealth and positioning to not die from a warrior’s evicerate. Ele comrade switches to water attunement. you get healed for 3k. You run out of stealth. You have just enough health and distance to juke the warrior.

Just to clarify, when I say rework, I do NOT mean scrap the Deathshroud mechanic in favor of something else. I LOVE deathshroud. I simply want us to get the bare necessities, that is, equality in our standard of living.

-We are the only class where our class mechanic prevents us from using our utilities skills.
-We are the only class where our class mechanic prevents us from being healed.
-We are the only class where our class mechanic invalidates an entire traitline (Blood I’m looking at you).
-We are the only class who can’t spam finishers consistently.
-We are the only class with sub-par group support.
-We have no blocks, evades, invulns, or vigor.
-We have backwards mobility.
-We lack enough stability to make up for our CC weakness.

ArenaNet. Give us QoL changes or give us death.

How to Make a Class Not Contradict Itself:
In 5 easy steps.

1. “Why can’t they use utility skills in Death Shroud?”

Allow skills 6-10 to work while in DS.

2. “Why does it have so little access to powerful combo fields?”

Give us the blasts we deserve. (warhorn 4, axe 3, dagger 5)

3. “Why is the Blood Magic trait line so poor?”

Make healing through deathshroud baseline.

4. “Why is Life Force so fragile when the profession has no reliable means of escape or defence?”

If we can use our utility skills, and get healed through deathshroud, this becomes much less of an issue.

5. “Why are minions, their role and AI still terrible?” (for those MM’s on the forums)

Scrap minion AI, copy paste mordem AI. GG

Thank you for your time.

I support baseline piercing. Staff 1 pierces. Lifeblast, the manifestation of pure Lifeforce channeled into a projectile, cannot pierce without a trait?

Great game design.

They probably wont be. But at least they will give us more instant cast utility.

Like I said in some other post, they could make shouts at least a somewhat useful.
Stunbreaks, Resistance, Stability, AoE taunt. Could be good for us.

I mean, we want to get hit right? (:

/dies

Rev wont get shouts. There will be 6 shouts. rev will get 5 utilities.

Shouts will go to either Necro (60%) Ele (25%) or thief (15%). Theres no real other other option.

Warrior has shouts. Guard has shouts. Ranger has shouts. Engi getting new toys (flying machines not from hammer skills). Mesmer getting wells.

leman.7682:

EremiteAngel.9765:

hahahahahahahahha

1. Leave lifeblast damage how it is, de-clunk precast/aftercast.
2. Call it a day ANet.

OlliX.1705:

Bhawb.7408:

Malchior.1928:

That way, the GM trait Spiteful Spirit gives necros a blast finisher every 10 seconds (6 sec when traited)

15s ICD, so it wouldn’t, sadly.

Let’s hope they remove that ICD.

They will.

…or the trait will be trash. And a trash GM trait that even buffed probably isn’t worthy of GM will get buffed, or ignored and removed.

Eventually.

I will legit QQ if we get more ai such as spirits.

I think we need some instant cast utilities. Shouts while uninteresting provide potential filling to our holes.

-Shouts can have stunbreaks on them so it wouldn’t be un-usable.

Shout Potential:

-AoE resistance and or stability.
- AoE taunt
-AoE Slow (gain lf for each enemy afflicted)
-Shout that summons a bone wall, or fog (projectile defense!!!)

Sigmoid.7082:

Axe 3 is on its knees praying that it becomes a blast finisher.
Dagger 5 isnt far behind either.

Easy solution.
-Put a blast on warhorn 4.
-Give axe 3 blast finisher.
That way, the GM trait Spiteful Spirit gives necros a blast finisher every 10 seconds (6 sec when traited)

These two changes would satisfy me.

We just need some (read LOTS) Resistance and I’ll be happy.

As our channel skills take two eternities, the potential threats of channeling skills of such proportions should merit some rewards for opting to do so.

Considering how Protective Mantras was handled, I don’t see why ANet would give toughness to a class they don’t want “to get hit” and take away toughness from necros who really do “want to get hit”.

We should get dark armor as baseline. At the bare minimum. Even if they plan on revealing that the new necro specialization gets healing through deathshroud, there should be more skillful play associated with something so dangerously counterable.

—-

Maybe even some stability stacks on channel skill activate hmm.

I personally hope boon duration stays on the Death line, and Condi duration stays on spite or gets moved to curses (maybe).