try playing a condi reaper and see what it feels like to get pushed by a thief, it’s just as bad as facing a tempest. Thief is not THAT bad, warrior, on the other hand, is useless garbage.
You should not be losing to a thief 1v1 on any class.
Spec’d right, a thief has a decent chance to beat condi rev, its probably the only class they can 1v1.
And what spec is this persay b/c when I play condi rev I don’t see this.
And I suck.
u just don’t play against good thieves…. Its not a walk in the park, but when i’m on thief, I consider fighting condi rev’s. It’s not something I automatically run away from.
thief need some revamp, but not in dmg. i would say take 20% of his dmg, 20% of mobility and give him more defence, the he should be fine
noo.. the damage is lacking on some weapons. On staff, damage is good, but other weapon sets like s/d is sorely lacking.
as far as mobility, lots of classes have enough mobility that if the thief is off by a little he won’t get the decap. Think druid and ele and rev/guard with teleport. Its just that many players are too lazy to try to keep track of the thief…. most players want things handed to them on a silver platter… Thief mobility is fine.
(edited by Michael.9517)
try playing a condi reaper and see what it feels like to get pushed by a thief, it’s just as bad as facing a tempest. Thief is not THAT bad, warrior, on the other hand, is useless garbage.
You should not be losing to a thief 1v1 on any class.
Spec’d right, a thief has a decent chance to beat condi rev, its probably the only class they can 1v1.
Anet won’t buff em. Its policy. Its our turn to die in the dark because everyone raged at these classes the most in 2014. 2015 is almost over, and Thief died 6 months ago. We got 6 more months to go, warrior started 3 months after and now has 9 months. Yay waiting list.
I do agree with you on this… but I want to say this time is different.
The brokeness of Warrior is so extreme, possibly the worst of all time of any classes that have been underpowered.
I remember when mesmer was way underpowered, but you could still make it work with the right team comp. Currently, thief is in that place. It’s defiantly way underpowered, but can work with a good player and the right team comp. Still needs a buff though.
Warrior on the otherhand… is just dead. They HAVE to do something about it. They can’t leave a class this broken in pvp.
I do see what the dev’s tried to do with warrior….high condi single damage burst and single target stuns. It looks good on paper… but in practice the massive amount of passives and AOE orgies make it very very weak.
and I see what they tried to do with thief… high aoe direct damage (with staff) with a decent amount of evades to create sustain (but not excessive like old s/d). Problem again is the massive amount of passives and AOE orgies that make this very very weak.
(edited by Michael.9517)
sad what the game has come to
Depending on the camera and targeting settings, skills can be used without a target, thus a smart enemy can directly counter the effects of stealth if they know where the thief will likely be.
… you mean just spam stuff and win? RIP Thief
Hello,
Anyone else notice being locked and targeted AFTER going stealth, not talking about if you were target prior to going stealth, but i mean full blown stealth for a while and still being targeted and hit for massive damage.
not that thief isn’t broken right now… but this would be the icing on the cake.
Anyone know.. is this a know issue… Can’t tell you how many times I would like mortar #4 and #1 to actually give the field combo it says it will give…(remove condition)… seems like mortar combo finishers (#1 physical projectile) just isn’t working right….
hello! i’m looking for a pro league team.
necro
www.twitch.tv/hatuey_
www.youtube.com/hatueyvids
hat, for real.. levi is looking for a fifth…
thief is okay. Its dead in the middle. Probably the most balanced class. not overpowered, not under-powered.
I thought it was way under-powered, but now, i find it to be the best class in terms of balance.
I never thought I’d say this, but it has good build diversity too. Standard SA d/p is good.
S/d daredevil is really good. (what i run)
P/P daredevil is decent (not great, but not terrible)
d/p daredevil is good.
i’ve been using this s/d daredevil build and its sick…
but rune of daredevil instead of pack. Altough pack, evasion, vampirism and perhaps even citadel would all be legit imo.
the build can be modified for more condition removal using escapists absolution if your fighting a player, or team, with heavy condition damage.
bound can be swapped out for dash in daredevil trait for more mobility.
the strenghts of this build are:
1. decent damage
2. lots of stuns/dazes (steal daze, daze on #1 sword while stealth, stun with fist flurry, basilik venom)
3. great sustain with a large amount of dodges (3 bars of endurance, 50 endurance gain on steal, vigor on successful steal, heal on evades, heal on steal, withdrawal)
4. great thief mobility, even more if you use dash over bound.
5. decent peels. (Shadowstep, bow #5, withdrawal, SR, sword #2)
Build is strong. Run it. Own peeps.
regards,
End level Boss.
see you in game.
how to fix theif.
S/D
1. buff sword base damage 5%
2. reduce offhand dagger initiative use by 1
3. bring back might on dodge
D/p
1. reduce initiative of offhand pistol by 1
2. increase base dagger damage by 3%
for all builds.
bring back range of bow to 1200 yards. Increase base damage by 2%.
Theif is now viable.
Just me, or does it take about 2 seconds for what looks like should be a no cast time skill, to actually cast?
Cool Stuff. And I prefer the second option ‘Receive less damage from weakened foes’. We need the damage mitigation.
we already receive reduced damage from weakend foes lol.
Trait would have to be receive no damage from foes to make that worth something, ore make it 50% chance to not crit, 25% damage reduction on hits that crit or something… i don’t know, its just not creative imo.
(edited by Michael.9517)
Heres an idea… get rid of staff
yeah, the future pvp thief in the expansion will be …. d/p thief. same as it is now.
Theiff got the shaft on everything.
Staff… wtf. We aren’t ninjas… we are thieves.
Daredevil… good concept, but too similar to acro to make it unique. Not unique. Its basically what acro should have been.
thiefs wanted rifle. A good number wanted off hand sword, and some wouldn’t have minded main hand/off hand mace (could be good c/c build to complement stealth builds). I also think main hand torch would have been a cool unique class thing for thief. (think smoke fields,blind, and condi damage with torch main hand)
So, dev’s have no idea what the thief community would like to see, nor do they have any concept of what they actually want for thief.
I’ll say it again.
If you lose to a thief 1v1 on any class you are significantly worse than that thief player.
As for the whole mobility vs 1v1 ability debate. Look thief gave up its team fighting ability for the mobility it has. The fact now that the 1v1 ability is gone should be reversed.
I’m sure a lot of ppl will try to shout down my PoV and that’s ok. It won’t work due to them having absolutely zero facts to counter me but they can voice their opinion.
They don’t have to shout you down, they only need to ask you to prove what you say in the first place. You have yet to offer any proof that 1v1 with “equal skill” that a thief will lose.
Here’s a nice video from Sindrener. I would assume anyone with an MMR capable of being put in a match up with players of Sindrener’s level certainly doesn’t need to L2P, especially when they’re in the WvW guild he is/was in. Also Katru did an amazing job.
Don’t get me wrong, some classes/builds thief cannot 1v1 at all but it’s not helpless against all classes. The discussion in the vid is nice to.
The mesmers in that video that he fought were horrible…. they literally would turn away from him so he could backstab them.
So today I played several soloq matches on non-ele classes. Didn’t get flamed at all. Played a single match on my ele to get the daily and I get flamed throughout the whole match about how skill-less and OP d/d ele is and how I only do well because I’m playing an OP class.
If it’s such an OP insta-win class, then why do I have the second lowest win/loss ratio on my ele?
P.S. I’m totally fine with the announced changes so far because I don’t think d/d ele should have so much damage for the role it fills.
soooo… your saying that because you play ele the most, if they are so op then you should have more than 50% win?…
very poor logic.
I will have to say that over a greater period of games, you should average about 50% win rate because matchmaking should succeed in putting you in even matched games. you win some, you lose some. If the game is doing its job, you will be around 50% over a greater period of time. Your screen capture is evidence for this….
So burning ticked 42 times? You let burning tick 42 times… I once got back stabbed for 9k unavoidable damage… How is that not worse?
Honestly guys, I think even if they nerf burning it won’t be by much and it might just be in how often it’s applied by some skills.
Burn guards stack a bunch of burning and then block. That’s like… It. I also see people make the argument that what if you had two burn guards on you… Well i don’t think that’d be much different than having two thieves or Mesmers on you, honestly. Or kitten two interrupting kitten-hole warriors spamming hammer skills lol.
players who refer to backstab are not players that should be even remotely taken seriously
That was actually the idea behind my Arcane Thief Elite Spec suggestion — it would have been better for the Thief to arcane steal abilities using focus than to be a staff wielding monkey.
Whatever, too late for that — maybe the next Elite Spec (if any)?
yeah im not sure who the theif dev is.. but … not good
Stuns and boon hate. Lighting 4 isn’t an invuln, the only burst they have is from Fire 3/5 combo. fire 2 is just as dangerous to them as it is to who ever they are aiming it at with such a long cast time you can cc them out of it. I haven’t played thief in over a year, I think sword 2 has a chance steal all their might stacks and is it trickery F1? that can steal it as well.
lololol you just said thief using sword… lololol you don’t pvp, clearly. have a nice day.
its srs, without vamp runes, im not sure i want to play theif right now
So, I can’t go into much detail on things quite yet, but I just wanted to reassure you folks that we’re actively discussing a number of issues that are affecting balance in PvP – including, but not limited to elementalist sustain/damage. Per the usual, we’ll be talking to you folks about the changes once we’ve finalized them.
Sorry I haven’t been that active on the forums lately – we’ve been pretty busy around the office.
“Thanks, Grouch. You’re the worst!”
Edit: Also, just because this is an elementalist thread doesn’t mean we’re only looking at elementalist, and it also doesn’t mean we’re only looking at doing nerfs.
took tcg with a team of 4 elementals to make the dev’s realize all other classes are irrelevant when you can have the sustain of a bunker class, dps of a burst class, mobility of a mobile class all wrapped into one class….. the elemental.
i’m starting to think dev’s don’t pvp…
why are people still hung up about feline grace….
lets talk about the real problem for s/d acro builds…..really low damage…
Need some change on rune of vampirism as well. Really don’t like it that much.
lets nerf theifs EVEN more… lmao
if they nerf vamp runes.. they better buff something for thieves
in regards to queue time…. who is the kitten developer that decided you can’t pve while you wait for pvp queue?
Hey everyone, I’ve been doing some pvp with a ranger and thief. However, I can’t seem decide on which one to main for pvp, along with pve and wvw. How good/viable are the ranger and the thief?
Both are viable right now. Condi ranger has a place as a good back point defender. Ele can arguably do it better…. but its possibly one of the best, if not THE best 1v1 spec right now. Power ranger is a lot better than it was too…..
D/P is very viable right now. S/D is not.
Basically if you like the stealth mechanic, go theif. If you rather be visible in the fight, have a pet, and do crazy insane damage go ranger.
I must yet see a dumb d/p user that would go SA.
Apparently you don’t watch tournaments at all. Most DP thieves are taking shadow arts. Including previous WTS winners. But what do they know? They should listen to random forum guy and stop being, “dumb.”
there are a lot of people on the forums who don’t play at a higher tier and don’t understand
Just because it isn’t broken as Shadow Arts d/p doesn’t mean it’s not strong. Imo S/D is perfectly fine. Just requires a bit more neurons than the dodge spamming bots that previously played this build are limited to.
Pretty much this, they all want it reverted back to the dodge spamming ridiculousness it was before when it’s really actually not bad , just overshadowed by SA d/p cheese at the moment. SA is cancer, and always has been but now you can use 3 trait lines so it didn’t take much common sense to realize it would end up making d/p more broken.
I like the feline grace buff to 4 seconds, albeit it should be 5secs imo to put it in line with other rewarding dodge mechanics for example ranger’s successful evade trait is adept and it gives 5seconds base vigor.
only noobs want the dodge spamming back… s/d defensive is fine…. ITS THE DAMAGE… S/d does no damage… far less damage than other classes DEFENSIVE builds… and s/d is suppose to be a dps build… lmao.
Just because it isn’t broken as Shadow Arts d/p doesn’t mean it’s not strong. Imo S/D is perfectly fine. Just requires a bit more neurons than the dodge spamming bots that previously played this build are limited to.
you don’t play theif at even a mid tier level for saying something like that. S/D is sub par BY FAR
part of the reason is this game is so imbalanced its not even funny…
just buff the damage…. or reduce cost of c/d and flanking strike( i don’t want spamming… but with the way the game is…. kinda need it).
My solutions
1. either 10% buff to all damage for sword AND acro line has off hand dagger initiative reduction, for example, endless stamina is 50% increase to vigor and 1 initiative reduction in offhand(ALL weapons offhand) skills (these changes might make s/p legit too)
or
2.infiltrators strike is 2/1 initiative cost for total of 3, flanking strikeis 3/1 or 4/0 for a total cost of four(or pistol whip decrease to 5), and withdrawl heal increased to 4.9 k base AND assassins award increased to 100 per intiataive OR poision does not affect its heal
This would go a long way in help s/d and s/x builds in general.
But overall, its a toss up. Both are really nice. It will depend on what team your with. If your going solo, I would run improv most of the time.
I’d choose based on what you’re fighting that game. Is the stolen item going to be useful? Lots of mesmers or thieves? Go improv. Necros, guardians and engis everywhere? Take executioner.
It also depends what’s on your team, if you’re co-ordinated with another dps class then improv is a better choice, if you’re playing with tanks take executioner imo.
Hope that helps :P
Duel aoe fear from necro…. pretty nice.
Guys I can’t choose :P Improvisation is really handy but I’m finding it hard to take down bunkers without executioner. I am running trickery with steal traits/CS/DA
don’t try to kill bunkers…. thief should never 1v1 now, except vs other thiefs..
yeap… i wonder why the dev’s hate S/D theif?
S/D is sub par… you will not be competitive at high level…
And its not the nerf to feline grace like everyone would think…..
its actually the power creep that every other class has ..s/d theif did not get at all.
To be competitive, they need to improve s/d damage…. how im not sure… when every other class can do more than you from range while having perma protection, crazy invulnerability, great heals, almost as much vigor as you…. well something is wrong.
S/D thief got the short end of everything this patch… harder than any other class.
S/D is sub par… you will not be competitive at high level…
And its not the nerf to feline grace like everyone would think…..
its actually the power creep that every other class has ..s/d theif did not get at all.
To be competitive, they need to improve s/d damage…. how im not sure… when every other class can do more than you from range while having perma protection, crazy invulnerability, great heals, almost as much vigor as you…. well something is wrong.
S/D thief got the short end of everything this patch… harder than any other class.
op is troll. sigh.
mesmers are broken op. Its because of this..
1. they have almost as much stealth as thieves
2. they have probably the same amount of invul as elemental and warrior and ranger(if you count sword 3 evade as a invul… pretty much the same thing.
3. have more interrupts than anyone in the game, combined with the longest stun(sort of) in the game(power block)
4. Blind just as much as theif, but only aoe blind
5. the most burst potential in the game, the cheesiest stealth burst ever.. 17k damage in one second
6. Good range, almost as good as power ranger
This is all from one build…..with standard stats in spvp. no WvW gear/food bullsj
this is why mesmers are broken op. They have too much damage for their ability to survive and disengage. They are like the old thief, but worse because its range.
its possibly the most worthless utility. I’d rather take ANYTHING else than signet of shadow. Its more of a pve speed buff thing so you can cross the map faster.. thats it. It has no use in combat.
pu mesmers… u just run. Its rather pointless.
Shatter mesmers will be beat if you stay in Shortbow…. which kinda sucks but its funny how much easier it makes the fight.
That’s about it for mesmer.
theif should use sb 100% after their opening burst
Sizer says s/d is totally fine , very strong build and i agree with him, but u must take acrobatics in order to win. S/d didnt take any hit becouse of acrobatics. Acrobatics bacame even stronger than before thanks to extremly good automated defense while still returing 1 dodge for 2 executed. In solo que s/d is stronger becouse its better in 1v1 vs ele, but if u team up with mesmer with voice communication u can develop crushing atacks from stealth.
example of buld with acrobatics and increased dmg by precision signet
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-gF3V;1Vwk0-K5FOFd0;9;4IML;0147237258;4LBl0L;1IBl3IBl3a0Q
1v1 vs ele? you serious dude? i know your not legit, or have never fought decent elementals
from a pure pvp point of view, not wvw or anything…. after playing s/d for several days pretty intensely… I actually like it… a lot. More than d/p.
I still think d/p is better…. however, S/D still has a place. It is far superior to d/p in terms of mobility…. FAR superior. A lot more than before the patch. +1 a fight is easier doing than d/p MORE than it was before.
So, while mose teams will run d/p, i still think s/d has a place right now. I actually think it needs no change whatsoever.
That being said, other classes need to be toned down with their damage and/or cc/survivability… mesmer and ele especially. Warrior rampage on 120 sec is stupid.. it should be 180 at least, if not 240 sec. Engineer nades need fixing….
Necro minon master needs looking at, but it has some hard counters…
Burning damage needs fixing….
game is working as intended
s/d damage was actually buffed
its just that everyone else was buffed more….
so, this is the best I could do with the current state of pvp for S/D. Its not terrible…. and imo S/D is better than it was…. its just everyone else got a 100% upgrade, while s/d got a 33% upgrade….. so S/D is defiantly far behind everything else.
Here is the build:
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-gF3V;1Vw-_0U5R-Fd0;9;4IML;0148147156;4IFl3L;16Rk06Rk0a0A
Here is my reasoning:
Acro trait line:
1.vigorous recovery. Basically perma vigor with feline grace. And endless stamina does an okay job of replacing the old feline grace….although the old one was better….
2. hard to catch. Just another endurance regen at a time when you need it most. Also, with all the CC in this game right now, its a must
3. Assassins reward or upper hand or don’t stop. I think all these are viable depending on the rune and personal play style. Assassins reward or Upper hand w/ Rune of centaur. Use Don’t stop with pack runes. Which choice depends on your play style. I like Assassins reward with centaur runes because the rune makes up for Don’t Stop trait(sort of) while providing near perma swiftness and the Heal you get form Assassins reward is not to be underestimated. Upper hand would allow you to get evades more often with flanking strike. All are viable imo.
Trickery:
Haste- because centaur runes give party swiftness with heal and the damage output when this lands is sick. Also clears a condition. I think its slightly better than Thrill of the crime, however…. both are reasonable choices. If you run pack runes… then there is no need for thrill of the crime and Haste becomes even more useful.
Trickster: Synergy with Withdrawl. Synergy with Haste from trait line. synergy with roll for initiative. Good condi removal important right now with those burns. Synergy with Infiltrators return for really good condi removal.
Sleight of hand: That daze interrupt has always been needed… always.
Deadly Arts:
Mug. Obvious choice. Nothing really better here.
Panic strike: No real reason to pick anything else.
Executioner/Improvisation: Damage output is good from executioner. Synergy with Haste. Improvisation for obvious reasons. Which one you chose will depend on your play-style. Both viable imo.
Utilities: Shadow Refuge. Roll for initiative. Shadow step.
SR: obvious reasons.
Roll for initiative. Synergy with acro trait line. Removes condition. Stun break (so needed right now). initiative gain(for more potential evades with flanking strike, little more heal with assassins reward, pretty decent disengage, combine with withdrawl you can get pretty far away from a fight if needed….)
Shadow-step: Mainly for stun break, but extra condition removal and disengage potential.
Alternate runes: Pack, Air, Adventure, vampirism, ogre
Alternate sigils: For S/D: Fire over blood
for SB: Energy over air. bloodlust over air.
(edited by Michael.9517)
signed. Just so sad. So sad indeed.