Guild Wars 2

no, that is really bad design. It’s the same as only the undead hearing the voice of the Lich in WoW.

Silicato.4603:

And about that you have to pay for an expansion, after you paid for the core game, thats the normal way.

http://www.pcgamesn.com/guildwars/guild-wars-2s-future-we-dont-need-expansion-pay-bills
http://www.usgamer.net/articles/guild-wars-2s-april-update-a-paid-expansion-without-the-paid-part

Everyone should ask in this day and age, where server bandwidth is not very expensive, what are you getting for your money? There are certainly games where you get a good amount of stuff for your money. We just want folks to know there’s a game out there where you don’t have to pay for any of that.

besides these interviews when the game just released they were also promising that you will never have to pay ever again. If there will ever be expansions they will come for free. That kind of was their selling point.

Both Mirror and Straylight, what exactly are you two doing here? You’re obviously not here to answer OP. All your comments are doing are derailing the thread.

Lysander Freeman.4186:

. But I’d like to kill people in wvw in a new map for once.

new WvW map and the new Spvp mode both are accessible by everyone, no matter they own the expansion or not.

I’m not happy about all the promises that were left undelivered. Some might say that everything that they said 3 years ago doesn’t count. Well if I couldn’t trust them about what they said 3 years ago, how am I to trust them about everything that “will be released shortly after the expansion is out”?

which brings me to another problem – too little content for too much money. I can buy a whole new MMO for this.

then I don’t really like how they handled whole veterans feeling not appreciated on the forums. Developer essentially came in and quoted a regular user that said that we had 3 full years headstart and that the developer will no longer answer to anything connected to it. In my mind that’s the same as answering your audience’s question with a middle finger. Not cool at all. It’s like the fact that they’re a big MMO got to their heads and now they’re too above us to actually deal with these kind of situations.

And lastly we just spent 8 months with no updates at all. Not even the return of SAB. Which kind of killed the interest in playing GW2 for me.

Coulter.2315:

So when Sim says “make us buy the scammy dlc.” what does your reading comprehension think he means? That ‘dlc’ is a negative? You can’t willfully ignore people’s inference…

Seasons require a limit, they are not indefinite. For example “Buy the Alien: Isolation Season Pass and get five add on packs to download.”

Defending ignorant use of buzzwords does not impress.

scammy is the negative word, not DLC.

DLC is literally any content that is downloaded in digital form, and not released in a physical one. Expansions included.

HoT promises you access to all the updates up until next expansion. Do you want to invent new terms and call it expansion’s pass?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season_ticket#Other_uses

“It can also refer to a special purchase available for certain video games, which typically allows the owner access to some or all future DLC for the game for a one-time fee. Access to each DLC becomes available as it is released. Some Season Passes have unique names, such as the “Rockstar Pass” for L.A. Noire (2011) and Max Payne 3 (2012)."

you don’t need to define a time frame for it to be called a season’s pass. HoT is literally a season’s pass until the next expansion. That could be in a year, or 3 years from now.

Coulter.2315:

I think games journalists clearly need to work harder so that their audiences know what their terms mean – they are walking away with just incorrect definitions.

DLC – this is downloadable content (which most things are literally but its not used to describe just “stuff I download”), used by journalists to describe negatively things that were cut out of the sold game to sell to you later. HoT clearly does not fit this description – unless you believe all the things in HoT were actually constructed 3 years ago and they forgot about it…

Season Pass – this has a defined time limit or content limit that is given out before you purchase it. GW2 HoT will give you ALL content until the next expansion which has not been announced and so there is not predefined limit of content or “season length.”

Guys I know you like to watch the jimquisition and he is super entertaining and does a lot for showing up bad practices but you need to not just learn some buzzwords that mean ‘something negative’ and stick them to anything you don’t understand. Hopefully journalists will try harder to educate and not just whip up frenzies (but since we’ve all seen media through our lives we know that won’t be the target for very many – this is not an attack on Jim I just chose him earlier as a random journalist I watch, is popular and know uses terms above, correctly I might add).

People in this thread need to learn what they are saying BEFORE they let it drip onto the page.

you’re turning the terms negative yourself.

A downloadable only expansion is still a DLC. So is a set of hats. The point that it was “cut out from the game”, that one you added yourself. So yes, HoT is a DLC. But Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion Shivering Isles, quite a big expansion mind you, was also counted as DLC.

Seasons pass literally means getting all the content for a certain specified amount of time. Buying HoT is buying a season’s pass with certain extra terms (like logging in).

MirrorOfNature.4279:

To answer Mirta’s question: Probably ill be left with the huge amount of people who will get this expansion and play it.

the last time I’ve heard “you should leave” was when Wildstar was being heavily defended. And look where it ended up when people did instead of complaining just got up and left.

MirrorOfNature.4279:

If you’re so bitter about this game, you probably should just uninstall it from your hard and move to something you enjoy.

funnily enough I was enjoying GW2. If you’re going to tell everyone who is skeptical about the expansion pack to leave, what do you think you’ll be left with?

MirrorOfNature.4279:

How nice. This post of yours perfectly displays why are you arguing so much about the price of the expansion. Simple. You’re just being cheap, and you want it for free. Wake up, mate. Realise how things work in the real world outside of your windows.

Really? Because I’m subbed to FFXIV right now. I don’t want it for free, I just don’t see anything in it that justifies its price.

MirrorOfNature.4279:

This “bad PvE” content as you so “kindly” put it includes 4 massive maps with 3 layers each, which means you basically gets 12 new maps filled with dynamic content, which gets only harder during night events.

google the first beta map and see how it compares to maps next to it. It’s 1/4th the size of a normal map. Even if you want to go with the “buut 3X layers!” argument, they still barely compare to regular GW2s maps, meaning that the number is exactly right. You’re buying a 4 map expansion.

The way that I see and from what I’ve heard, like 3 masteries are ones that you need to fully explore the new maps. You also need them for raiding (both gliding and mushrooms), however they’re pretty grindy. Meaning on average you’ll be stuck on a PVE map 1/3rd the normal size grinding dynamic events just to be able to unlock more of the map, versus horizontal maps where what you see is what you get.

Then the expansion got fed a lot of features that were supposed to be free updates. Guild halls were promised ages ago, so was a better guild progression, fractals were supposed to get a leaderboard in the fractal patch and what about that promise of no new gear tiers? Well feeling sorry for all of you guys as now there’s legendary armour that can only be obtained in a single raid being released with the expansion.

Many PVP updates are not even part of the expansion as everyone gets access to the SPvP and WvW map. Meaning if you’re a PVPer there’s no good reason to buy the expansion at all.

Now all that you’re left with is 1 more class and 1 new mastery line per class.

Now is it worth it? Depends on the buyer. I can see many unhappy player groups that get left out though
- smaller guilds will have a hard time with the new guild halls if the material requirements that we’ve seen are true. With so many smaller guilds begging for Anet’s support, that’s a pretty big group that gets left behind
- PvPers get nothing with the purchase, unless they want to theory craft with the new class + traits.
- dungeoneers got no mention of new dungeons at all. There’s 1 raid. Fractal rehaul that will be for everyone. And new fractal levels. If you did enjoy themed 5 man dungeons, at the moment you’re left out.
- open world PVEers should be disappointed by both the amount of maps and map size. With some expansion packs adding 12, adding 4 and asking for the full price of the main game again is a big no no.

MiniEquine.6014:

These Patron accounts almost seem necessary to fully enjoy the game

False. I was able to play as a F2P user for years just fine. To argue that it’s necessary, would be like to argue that boosters in GW2 are absolutely necessary to have.

MiniEquine.6014:

I’m not quite sure where you’re able to make this statement like this. You can try to separate subscription fees from expansion costs, but in the end you are paying significantly more money as required to access certain games like FFXIV or WoW. If you are financially able to ignore these recurring costs, then the expansion costs should mean nothing to you since they are dwarfed in comparison to total game cost. If not, then they must be accounted for when talking money.

Over a year, after an expansion has released, GW2:HoT will require $50 (or your local equivalent) since gem purchases are optional. Similarly, playing WoW or FFXIV will cost you $230 over the same time period. This is 4.6x the cost. Ignoring value obtained and only looking at cost, GW2:HoT technically only needs to supply ~21.7% of the content as these other games in order to make the costs equivalent, and this is only after 1 year.

If GW2 launches another expansion after 2 years, GW2:HoT would have still only cost $50 whereas the other two would have cost $410 over the same time period.

previously in this thread GW2s expansion price was also compared to Rift. Rift’s is far cheaper, for what could be more content. However because you are capable to access everything in it for free, except for gear people discounted it.

Truth be told GW2 with its expansion pricing is probably the most expensive F2P on the market.

Ayrilana.1396:

You purchase a 3-month subscription to Playstation Online which you choose to go into effect at the end of this month. Since anything can happen that can prevent you from experiencing some, or all, of your subscription, does that mean it has no value?

Well to begin with some companies will gladly freeze the sub for you.
Furthermore, there’s no maybe’s in what you’re buying there. You’re paying a specific sum to have access to a specific product for a specific amount of time.

Even if to say that buying the expansion gets you access to updates, there’s no guarantee that updates will even be expansion exclusive. For all we know expansions will be set up in a non linear fashion, the story of current dragon will be solved with the current expansion and LS3 will set up the story of the transition into another dragons territory.
In fact you can’t even guarantee that there even will be an LS3. For all we know most of the updates will be made out of seasonal events and things like SAB.

With there being 0 promises given by the devs in regards to updates, how can you claim that any of the HoTs price is update price? You pay for HoTs for exactly what it has right now and what’s promised to come in the immediate future (for example that one and only raid). Its price has nothing to do with future updates that may or may not be exclusive and may or may not come.

Ashen.2907:

Collectible cards (Sports and now CCGs) are an entertainment product that one purchases with a high degree of uncertainty regarding the specifics of what one will get. This uncertainty includes value of the entertainment product. Some cards are worth thousands of dollars (or more) while others have a sell value less than the cost to produce them. Some cards have what could be considered an actual negative value as the time spent throwing them away is worth more than the card itself.

MMOs have no actual value behind accounts though. You could consider HoT as a future investment if you were planning to get all the exclusive content and sell your account off, however selling accounts off is against the ToS.

Ayrilana.1396:

No. There’s a cut off because you must pay for the next expansion.

And you must pay for Living Story. Your point?

Ayrilana.1396:

Actually, it’s not a scam. I tried to keep things incredibly simple for you because I don’t think you have had any exposure into the business world. The point being was that deal had a value tied to it regardless as to whether there was a possibility that you may or may not be able to claim it within the 24-hour window.

even gift vouchers in Europe have to be expiration date free. Else it’s considered a scam.

Ayrilana.1396:

Yes, entertainment is not insurance but it doesn’t negate the example I was giving to try and explain to you the concepts of how something can have future value despite there being uncertainty around it.

How to you think businesses decide to expand? When they contemplate adding a new location to they just immediately decide whether they do or not? Or do they plan out what the cost will be, future revenues, potential risks, what a projected return might be, and so on before doing it. The value of that venture is based on projected returns despite their being potential risks that they might not realize some or all of the projected return.

once again now you’re talking about property acquisition and not an entertainment product from a consumers point of view.

Ayrilana.1396:

You had the opportunity to have the content for free but you chose to forego it for whatever reason. The cost of the future living story episodes isn’t necessarily included in the cost of the expansion.

original statement that I was arguing against.

IndigoSundown.5419:

It seems that the pricing includes whatever comes with the release day patch, plus whatever is added thereafter.

so well done! We’re indeed in an agreement that future updates are not neccesarily included in the expansion cost. Which was my whole point.

Ayrilana.1396:

What we do know is that those episodes have a value, and since having the expansion is a prerequisite to obtain them, they’re part of the value that you get by purchasing the expansion.

that’s like saying that because the previous expansion is a prerequisite for the next expansion, the next expansion is part of the current expansion’s value. Which it isn’t.

Ayrilana.1396:

Let’s say that if you give me 200G today that in 3 months I will buy you a precursor of your choice but you have 24 hours after we hit that 3-month mark before the your ability to obtain the precursor expires. You’re saying that the deal that you just bought for 200G has no value beyond that 200G simply because you could not be online during that 24 hours to claim your precursor? You’d be wrong.

Actually what you’re describing right now is a scam. If money is exchanged you expect definite results. Meaning that if you put up such a claim I would expect you to send me the precursor, I’m online or not. Else of course that 200G deal has no value if it’s a 50/50 chance of that 200G being just thrown away. Meaning I wouldn’t make such a deal with you. And I’m not making a deal with Anet either, based on future content.

Ayrilana.1396:

You’re also mistaken that you cannot put value on something that has some uncertainty in the future. It’s done all the time in the business world. Just look at car insurance. Based on a myriad of factors and analytics, you’re given a price for an insurance policy. At that point in time, that’s what it is worth. It can change in the future for better or worse but it still has a value at that point in time.

Entertainment product is not insurance. You pay money for entertainment. Entertainment that you’ll get right now. It’s like someone trying to sell you a 60$ movie ticket saying “you can not only see the movie today, but also maybe watch the sequel that will maybe come out sometime that you could potentially get for free if you come into the theater at a specific date and then maybe the sequel that will maybe come out even later!”. There’s no guarantee that the sequels will come. There’s no guarantee that you’ll like the movie and there’s no guarantee that even if you liked the movie and the sequels did come that you’ll like them.
There’s no dates, no promises in that sentence. There’s just a lot of maybes. You don’t take in “maybe something awesome will happen!” into a consideration when you’re buying an entertainment product. You go “is this movie with 60$ right now?” and that’s what you base your purchase of.

Coulter.2315:

Well be sure to check for LS3, I’m sure it’ll be well trumpetted and even if you’re taking a break I’m sure you can manage the 2mins per 2 weeks it takes to grab the update when its about. I don’t think “I might miss LS3” is a good reason to discount it as future content.

I missed majority of Season 2 due to health reasons and had to buy it. Therefore I can not count it as free content. I know people who get deployed, people who have family emergencies, people who have illnesses that hospitalizes them months at a time. Sometimes it’s not as easy as not finding the time to log in. Sometimes it’s literally being incapable of logging in.
So yes, if HoTs said “it includes LS3” I would expect to get it no matter I’m capable of logging in at that timeframe or not. However HoTs is not saying that. HoTs isn’t necessarily including that. However people are trying to justify its price saying that it does.

Coulter.2315:

But your reasoning “you can’t put a price on something you don’t know the quality or quantity of” is fine, do remember you cannot then say “its not worth it” by the same reasoning.

You just don’t take it into account if it’s not a direct promise. As most expansion packs continue in their lifespan the amount of content that you get with them expands. Now it’s not 4 dungeons, it’s 6. Now it’s not 5 zones, it’s 7! However you never count such content before it’s released. Price to content you count the content that is there.

Coulter.2315:

Infact the only people who are in a position to know what HoT contains and what its worth are the people who set the price. £35 is what they think and Guild Wars titles have always offered value for money.

Same single player game developers believe that their game is worth 80 pounds. When nobody buys said game for 80 pounds they drop that price. They firmly believed that they were worth that price, however if your customers disagree with you, it doesn’t matter what you price yourself at.
So always look at it logically. Wait for more information. Make a list of how much you’re actually going to be getting for those 35 pounds. Compare to competitors. Don’t immediately assume that just because the developer thinks that they’re worth that much, they are worth that much.

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s part of the expansion whether you want to believe it or not. Whether it’s temporary, or it’s free for only two weeks, doesn’t matter. The HoT as an inherent value which includes all future living story releases up to the next expansion. As an example of something outside of the game, based on your reasoning, call options have no value which is false.

let’s say that you bought HoT and took a break. All sorts of things happen after all. You come back and now you have to buy the first 2 chapters of LS3. If updates were included into expansion price, you wouldn’t have to.

Same way that seasonal events and temporary special events are never part of an MMOs price, as you could have easily missed them. You pay for what is there upon buying the product that you bought and what will inherently not to go away if you took a break.

Though on the forums of MMOs with permanent updates, still nobody says that future updates are part of the expansion’s price. Because you simply can’t put a price on something which you don’t know the quality, nor the quantity of, even if they are expansion exclusive.

IndigoSundown.5419:

It seems that the pricing includes whatever comes with the release day patch, plus whatever is added thereafter. Other games’ expansions sometimes include later free releases as well, but the games I’ve seen that do this, there’s also a sub.

A bit of a lengthy post that I made a page before:

Mirta.5029:

point is, you can’t include ANY temporary or temporarily free event into “this is what veterans got” and at the same time you can’t include such content into “this is what comes with the expansion”, because weather or not you got it would depend on were you there.
As opposed to majority of other MMOs updates (that are not seasonal events). Take for example FFXIV. Every patch for ARR they added 3 new dungeons, every second patch they added new raid turns and every second patch they added casual content such as dailies and their casino called “The Golden Saucer”. A person that would buy the base game now, would get all of it. A person that was subbed at the time of the patch got it. And a person that wasn’t there at that point will still find the content there when they return. That’s the sort of game where you could say “expansion price includes further patches”, because most further patch content will be expansion content.
However even then people don’t judge the expansion’s worth on what’s to come. They judge it on what is there. The same way that they don’t judge the game on all the temporary events that it had, they judge it on permanent content that you get after that one purchase. Therefore going “buy HoT for future living world” is as wrong as it can get.

point is, if what’s on offer right now is appealing to you, go for it! However you can’t say that price includes future updates, because so far majority of the updates were either temporary, or pay if you missed it kind of deal, which suggests not free and not included with the fee of the expansion. If they change their strategy for season 3, then the “LS price is included” statement could stand.

Jimson.5168:

invalid comparisons to other games, and just plain anger about something with no valid information to back up such a reaction

invalid comparisons? Like what? If we’re able to point at other MMOs and state that there we can get more in an expansion pack for cheaper, then I don’t see that as invalid comparison at all.

MiniEquine.6014:

I get that life gets in the way sometimes, but seriously, you can’t bring up “just don’t feel like logging in” as a valid reason for why somebody is missing content and that they should just get it regardless. I didn’t “feel like” logging in this past weekend to do the Mordrem invasion stuff; should I demand that Anet keep the event going so that I can play it? Regardless, Eisberg isn’t actually wrong. It is indeed very rare for someone to be unable to log on the game for a couple of minutes over a two to three-week period and then log out.

Do I think that the LWS3 content should be included in the cost of the expansion, sure, as long as you bought the expansion. I think it would be much better if they just kept all the episodes free from when you bought the expansion on until the season officially ended and then make them purchasable (suppose you bought HoT after episode 3, then you’d have to buy episodes 1, 2, and 3).

point is, you can’t include ANY temporary or temporarily free event into “this is what veterans got” and at the same time you can’t include such content into “this is what comes with the expansion”, because weather or not you got it would depend on were you there.
As opposed to majority of other MMOs updates (that are not seasonal events). Take for example FFXIV. Every patch for ARR they added 3 new dungeons, every second patch they added new raid turns and every second patch they added casual content such as dailies and their casino called “The Golden Saucer”. A person that would buy the base game now, would get all of it. A person that was subbed at the time of the patch got it. And a person that wasn’t there at that point will still find the content there when they return. That’s the sort of game where you could say “expansion price includes further patches”, because most further patch content will be expansion content.
However even then people don’t judge the expansion’s worth on what’s to come. They judge it on what is there. The same way that they don’t judge the game on all the temporary events that it had, they judge it on permanent content that you get after that one purchase. Therefore going “buy HoT for future living world” is as wrong as it can get.

sorudo.9054:

BD has grind, GW2 has that too, the difference is that DB has plenty to fill the gap, in GW2 you’re searching for something to do in order to not get bored.

BD has no end game. None. Being a sandbox MMO what you do at max level is:

- PvP
- grind same monsters for 10 hours to a day to keep up with levels (after the “soft cap” a level takes around 1.5 months of grinding, however if you don’t do it, you’re in a very serious disadvantage against your enemies)
- grind same monsters for 10 hours a day for better loot and upgrade components. Upgrades can fail. When they fail you lose durability on your armour and your upgrade materials. If you’re not running full upgraded armour, you can’t do almost anything to your opponents. If your armour reaches 0 durability, you grind items of the same item level in order to sacrifice them in order to restore your armour’s durability. Oh and there’s no trading post, nor any real trading between people.

Like literally all you do in BD is grind. That’s all there is. If you don’t believe me, Asian betas have been running for quite some time, so feel free to sign up for those and check it out, or watch youtube videos of those that have played it.

Kniff.7150:

You pay 50$ and will get the initial expansion content and years of living world etc additions with it.

chances are Living World will work the same way Season 2 did. As in, you only get it for free, if you log in. So if anything in your life happens you have to pay again.

maddoctor.2738:

As an “old” player you will get -character- times a dye of your choice. Spend it wisely and you can have the price of HoT in no time.

everyone’s 3 year old character will eventually get it. Plus, you can’t sell it. It’s immediately account bound :/

Sarie.1630:

When you go to a sandwich shop and buy a sandwich, do you go back the next day, claim you’re a veteran, and demand a free sandwich?

depends on the seller brand, but every store has promotions. For example “collect 20 stickers by buying 20 sandwiches and get one free”, or “here’s a customer appreciation card, every time you shop here 10% of your payed sum goes to your card and you can use it either for discounts or for free sandwiches later”.

Sarie.1630:

We’ve had pretty decent free content for two years running. I say two years because this last year has been a bit of a drought after the final Living Story episode. If you’re played from release, for three years, and you don’t like that ArenaNet are wanting a bit of income for a much larger amount of content, then I think the line back has to be “sorry bud, sucks to be you.”

Depends on your play time and when you were active, having in mind that LS1 was very temporary and LS2 is buy to play if you didn’t log in.

Simzani.4318:

GW2 is not korean and is only about grind, even the dlc is only grind gated behind grind. But you play it.

at least you don’t have to to be competitive. You’re fairly confident that if you left the game for months you won’t be roflstomped in the open world by PvPers. Black Desert IS that kind of game though.

EDIT: for example this is a video on Black Desert! https://youtu.be/BmMQIiKukiE?t=11m26s All you do is grind levels and gear. There’s no dungeons, no raids, nothing besides open world PvP and killing the same things over and over and over again.

I would strongly encourage to look into Blayde and Soul instead, or any other upcomming MMO.

Umiliato.6049:

dont be naive and jump to conclusions without research. it wont be free to play but still looks very promising. they making same promisses as anet did to us. paying once, no endless grinding and a thoughtfull storyline. if it will give 3 years of fun for 50 dollars itll be a good deal again. 50 dollars for a couple hours grinding on a new map with masteries, kiting, one raid and a new class etc (wich u cant even enjoy on the old maps) seems a poor deal. easy to judge a new game tho, id rather test it out since its same price as some small expansions are.

black desert has already opened in beta in other regions and I would encourage you to try it. Because it’s a VERY grindy game. Power is largely based on endless leveling, however after a while enemies hit cap, while you do not. If you want to continue to be useful in PvP for your side, what you do is, you continuously grind the same enemies with diminishing returns. It approaches a level where a level can take a month and a half of every day grinding, but if you don’t, you fall behind on the PvP scene so far that you can no longer defend.
Upgrade system is similar to Tera’s. As in you grind out the materials to try and upgrade your weapons, but the upgrade can fail, sending you to grind again.
There isn’t a mass market place from what I know of, so you do actually have to be self sufficient.

The end game is VERY grindy. Unless of course they’re fundamentally changing their game just for the English audience.

Please at least youtube it.

so let me get this straight:

- you can’t compare it to WoW expansions, because WoW is P2P
- you can’t compare it to GW1 because those were standalone games.
- you can compare it to EOTN because that was an add on (?)
- you can’t compare it to Rift, because “nobody cares about Rift or plays it”

while at the same time saying “what game kept the same population for 3 years, population slump is normal!”

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

I played beta in Verdant Brink. Lemme tell you, it definitely surprised me. While in true sense smaller then a normal map (say lion arch)

okay if those 4 maps are even smaller than Lion’s Arch, that’s really worrying to me.

welp. Time to start hoarding silk and sell it when prices skyrocket. Consider this an early warning and hoard it just in case too.

eisberg.2379:

Looking at videos, looks like it is a tank and spank type battles, where people just stand in one spot and have no real need to actually move around, especially constantly like in Guild Wars 2. That explains why the controller works, a lot less going on so switching around works.

https://youtu.be/AD5YEenBxoE?t=3m35s

that’s your average FFXIV raid type encounter. If you do not dodge the bad, it insta kills. While it might appear slower, more than half the dungeons in GW2 are solved by backing the boss into a courner and DPSing with an odd dodge to the wall, so you don’t really need much movement.

So if you can play FFXIV on a controler, chances are you can do majority of GW2s PVE on a controler too.

eisberg.2379:

Monk Tank.5897:

Just wait till the next expansion when we find out GW2 goes console.

They couldn’t make this game for the consoles, not enough buttons on a gamepad to make it possible.

FFXIV has more abilities (3 bars after the expansion, not a limited action set game), yet you can play it fairly well with a controller, even though you need to be a bit more skilled. It works by rotating between bars.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

If you buy the expansion before the launch you get a $10 discount. A free character slot. If that’s not good enough there was a thread on the forum a couple of months ago where people contacted Support and asked for and received 800 gems instead.

thing is, I don’t need that character slot. I rather it was a flat 10$. Not gems. Not character slots.

eisberg.2379:

They are not selling you the base game again. The expansion would be $50 with or without the base game. The base game has dropped in price to $0 value.

uh, no? That’s if you want a heavily restricted account. You still need to buy the base game if you want restrictions removed and HoT is bundled with the base game. All people are asking for is to be able to purchase HoT without the base bundled in.

Devata.6589:

I don’t think there has to be a separation for it to be B2P.. B2P basically mean you buy the content to use / play it. Is does not matter that that content is an addition to an already existing platform.

in order to access SWOTOR’s expansion content you need to buy it. However the game, just like this one now is, is classed as F2P.

eisberg.2379:

Got to put in some context of what a “whale” is though. A “Whale” doesn’t spend as much as you might think. Over the years of reading various professional articles based on studies and interviews with professionals in the industry, “whales” are anybody who spends more than the average spender does. The average spender spends about $40-$50 a year, so anybody who spends more than $50 a year would be considered as a ’Whale". So yeah, you can be considered as a “whale” when you are actually spending a lot less than a subscription game.

doesn’t really mean that there aren’t whales that spend more than a sub. When I was actively playing, I was spending 20£ a month on gem cards, while a sub to FFXIV is merely 9£ a month.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

The 3 years of free play and the 40 free updates are worthless?

With Anet’s way of approaching things, how many of those you received depends solely on weather you had time to log in at that point.
S2 of Living Story is B2P if you missed it.
Majority of your regular updates went away and didn’t come back.

Razzier.9156:

What i want from ANet is make possibility to buy expansion and base game separate not only in pack and charge them appropriate.

I think that that’s what majority of us wants. If expansion pack was just 10$ cheaper (base game taken out), I don’t think that so many of us would be on the forums right now.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

If you are unhappy with it and feel it’s fraudulent, then don’t buy. Find another game. There is no reason to stick around with a game that you feel is fraudulent.

that’s what a lot of people are doing I imagine. However the last time I’ve seen “don’t like it? Leave!” attitude was in Wildstar. And that one completely died because of it.

You shouldn’t believe that just because your game was a great success originally it’s immune to failure. So “go away!” should never be the answer.

Manasa Devi.7958:

If you got what was advertised when you bought the game, you were not cheated. It’s that simple!

well we did not? How about the countless promises of:

- dueling incomming after the game’s release
- extra classes will come in after the game’s release
- living story is our way of doing expansions, we won’t do real expansions ever. Buy the game once, enjoy forever!
- you’ll be able to do a scavenger hunt for precursors (expansion locked now)
- we’ll add more things to do for guilds (expansion locked now)
- legendary armour is incoming! (expansion locked now)
- ascended items will be gotten only from fractals and useful only in fractals (makes sense as to why I had to grind EVERYTHING ELSE to get gear whose main purpose is to slot in agony resistance for fractals)
- no extra gear tiers! (Except that ascended stuff that we put in later)
- we’ll never do raids!
- we’ll never go F2P!
- SAB will return! (that was said around 2 years ago. Where is it then?)

There were so so so many lies told. Then half the promises are repeated for the expansion pack and for that one they are already saying “this will come later, after release!”, how much are we going to bet that that “after release” will turn into “it’s a feature in the next expansion!”.

And to all of those saying “oh, but you got season 2 LS for free!”. Anyone that couldn’t log in that half a year didn’t. There are plenty of veterans that didn’t.

eisberg.2379:

Other games you are thinking about also have a subscription model, either required or optional with great benefits/advantages. So it is not a fair comparison at all. They can afford to have a cheaper price for current customer vs new customers because they have a better revenue stream. If GW2 had an optional subscription model or a required subscription, I am sure they would sell the expansion for cheaper.

I honestly have better value for my money playing those games with optional sub and not subbing as pretty much not a single one of them is even as bad restriction wise as GW2 free account is (except perhaps SWOTOR). Meaning that perhaps GW2 should get an optional sub, seeing as right now they’re botching up both the expansion price, leaving many veterans unhappy and F2P rights as a lot of people would have far more freedom in for example Tera even.

MiniEquine.6014:

FF XIV can’t be compared because of its monthly fee. You are automatically spending nearly 6-7x more on that game every year than you are on GW2. After two years it’s 14-15x as much money. WoW can also not be compared for the exact same reason. Those MMOs make most of their money off of the subscription, not selling the game itself.

in that case as we are F2P let’s compare to other F2P games.

- newest SWOTOR expansion $19.99 USD
- Rift NightMare Tide, £18.99 to access equipment from that expansion pack, base content for free to everyone. Then to catch up to everyone else you’ll have to spend £25.99 + £18.49, to have all the possible classes.
- Tera Fate of Arun, free for everyone

B2P:

- The Secret World costs 54,99€ for anyone that wants to start right now and have all the content, 29,99€ for just the base game, 79,97€ + 29.99€ for anyone that was purchasing all the DLCs and the base game separately. Once again, new players do not get all the DLCs with the purchase of the base game.

Not a single other game has their new DLC price as high as GW2 HoT (The Secret World DLCs are 24€ each) AND not a single one of them give everything but the newest expansion to a new player for free while forcing the veteran to pay oh so much more. So it would make just so much more sense if Anet also sold HoTs unbundled.

MiniEquine.6014:

What would be unfair is if you got HoT for less or nothing when a new player had to pay the same price, which is the exact opposite of what you stated.

no.. That would be how most MMOs work.

For example FFXIV. Two years ago it went for 30£. Today it’s 10£. The expansion pack costs 30£. There are bundles for a newly starting player, but they’re still 40£. So while the veteran payed 60£ total, a new player still had to pay 40£ for base game and expansion. And yes, the price will continue falling over time, but base game + expansions will never be the same price as the newest expansion.

HoT is seen as that kind of bundle, because it also includes base game. It’s also more expensive than expansions for a lot of other MMOs. So it’s only natural to perceive that if you’re buying JUST the expansion it should be cheaper. And it doesn’t feel really fair that you can’t discount the base game in it.

Healix.5819:

Keep in mind that new accounts will be missing the living story. Assuming 2-3 seasons per expansion, those that end up getting HoT for free will end up having to pay the price of HoT anyways if they want the full experience.

not all veterans got season 2 for free. So it’s completely possible that you bought the game, bought full season 2 and on top of that have to buy HoT.

eisberg.2379:

Guild Wars 2 has always been an MMO in a category all by itself. I cannot think of any other Buy to Play MMO that doesn’t have a subscription option as well with an in game cash store.

yet it doesn’t matter as in majority of MMOs all you get is currency if you subscribe. And stop saying B2P. You can be on an even field as a free account, meaning we’re F2P now. It’s not a trial, you’re not excluded from any content. It’s as F2P as F2P gets.

eisberg.2379:

Legendary gear that someone can buy from the TP is still gear that someone else earned, being transferred to someone else has a net effect of zero. Buying gear that has stat increases on it that wasn’t earned in the game but bought from a store is completely different story.

still doesn’t detract from the fact that you can be the worst player ever and earn your gear simply trough your wallet. Actually levels too as you could have just gems → gold → crafting materials and craft your way to 80.

eisberg.2379:

Because GW2 is still a buy to play game, them giving people a restricted game for free is basically a demo version of the game. Not the same thing as what Rift is doing.

Also with Tera, they have gear with very much stat increases on it:
https://store.enmasse.com/tera/item/dragonsilktrousseau1/dragon-silk-innerwear

The restricted game’s restrictions are not better nor worse than your regular F2P titles. You can still enjoy personal story, PvP, PVE and WvW to its fullest. All you’re locked out is laurel gear, TP restrictions (rift has this too), guild bank restrictions and chat restrictions. Meaning you might as well call the game F2P with payed expansion and a chance to upgrade your account. That’s all it is now.

And about Tera:

“These great new equipment pieces have the same abilities as ones currently in-game, but offer new looks and a chance to fine-tune your play style. And if you’re curious about how they’ll look on you, remember that you can preview all costumes and accessories in the new in-game Dressing Room.”

it’s in no way stronger than equipment in game. Indeed it’s weaker than anything you would get from raiding at end game. GW2 is far less straight forward, but you could gems → gold and get a legendary, which stat wise is BEST IN SLOT in the whole game.

MiniEquine.6014:

GW2 is in no means Pay2Win. There is nothing you can do with real money that would give you an edge over players that in-game money cannot do in the same levels. If you have a free account, you are locked out of certain things, yes. This, however, does not affect the core game. Less bag space does not affect combat, nor does the number of character slots you have.

Also, I’ve read through all your posts here and continually fail to remember that GW2 has no subscription fee. 100 hours in this game alone results in a total cost of 50 cents/hour for playing the game at the new price point. After 1000 hours you are only paying 5 cents/hour. GW2 pricing structure should only be directly compared to other Buy2Play games. I don’t know any of these off the top of my head aside from GW1, but that also had really high RoI for the cost.

that’s exactly my point. Neither Rift nor Tera is pay to win either, as exclusion from rift without purchasing an expansion pack is even lesser than exclusion in GW2 that completely free accounts will suffer. Neither of these games have a forced sub fee either. They are, just like GW2 now is F2P.
And no, you can no longer compare GW2 to other B2P titles (such as Elder Scrolls Online or The Secret World) as for the most part it’s now F2P. Except it has a harsher model than Rift, forcing you to buy the expansion if you want the expansions content.

eisberg.2379:

Actually the current expansion for Rift is free, but they put some stuff into a bundle related to the expansion that really is pay to win. If you do not get the lowest bundle, you cannot wear some gear, there is a group you can join that can give you extra rewards that you buy membership to through those bundles, the rest of the bundle is a title and inventory bag slots.

Prior to going Free To Play, their first expansion was sold for $39.99, and included the base game, and the game had a required subscription fee. So yeah, their one paid expansion was $10 cheaper than GW2s, but you also had to pay $15.00 a month to play it.

Tera Online expansions are also free. Tera Online store is also pay to win since you can buy items that give gives more Health/Power when wearing the item.

So you used two very bad examples that didn’t prove your point at all.

wait, how is the rift part any different from GW2 trial to GW2 real account? You just consider the purchase of expansion as necessary, because otherwise you’re playing the “trial” version, however unlike GW2 HoT you still have access to the new content. Here you just have access to the base content, but then you can’t access guild bank, you only have half the bag space of a real player, what you can buy off TP is limited, you get no laurels, meaning no ascended accessories for you, meaning you ARE getting screwed out of gear. So if Rift is P2W then GW2 is too.

Now for the Tera store:
https://store.enmasse.com/tera
NO ITEMS HAVE STATS. It’s the exact same store as the GW2 store, except that gamble boxes are guaranteed to have at least some costume pieces, versus GW2s “you may just get a booster”.

Reviera.5183:

I tried playing rift. didn’t like it, was to chunky and it was like Runescape with better graphics, still swining a sword like I was in RS.

if you need action combat then there’s always Tera and soon to come Blade and Soul. Those guys didn’t do too bad, over 5 years in different regions they’ve added over 10 extra levels, new regions, new dungeons, new classes, all for free. In EU/NA they will release the game the same way it was at the base and add the content over time, so that players don’t feel overwhelmed.

Reviera.5183:

WoW you pay what 15 a month for? and you gatta pay for expansions? don’t know, Ide say GW2 is being nice about it. sure they could drop the price for the core gamers but still, Gw2 isn’t a sub game, its a buy to play game, XD they don’t ask you for 15 a month + the content price.

I picked WoW as the overpriced example (the price point that GW2 is copying), Tera, Rift and other free to play games that you would think we are copying (especially keeping in mind stores with gamble boxes in them) do their expansions much cheaper. For example current Rift’s expansion base is 18£ versus 35£ of Guild Wars 2.

Reviera.5183:

O , O holy kitten, all that data….that would cost the company……wow thousands just to make the expansions…….thousands as in the format data, format and memory cards for the server hub, then you gatta pay the dev team(for the hrs they’ve worked on it) to even get that kitten done, and you’de need to pay for the equipment to even put the data together. that’s a lot of money they used to give us all that. they bled themselves dry to make all this happen. now they ask for us to pay for it in return.

yet other MMOs did it better and asked for less. The only one to price their expansions this high is WoW and in those you get more content too.

eisberg.2379:

No, they said purchase once and never have to pay for a subscription. They never said what you stated. Also I have never seen them promise to add more classes to the game.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-03-its-unlikely-guild-wars-2-will-ever-get-an-expansion-pack

this is only one of the examples as there were a lot of promises and statements made by Anet that later got changed.

eisberg.2379:

I can only imagine how upset you were when the game was being sold for much less than than what you bought it for.

I was actually happy? I’m not upset in the slightest that the game is F2P now, I was just saying that I don’t feel appreciated as a customer and why couldn’t we copy other MMOs and appreciate people once in a while?

eisberg.2379:

As for season 2, you are saying that during season 2, you could not log in at least 1 time during a 2+ week period to get access to each of the season 2 episodes? I wasn’t playing during that time either, but I was able to spend a couple of minutes every 2+weeks to get the episode onto my account.

RL circumstances. I missed just a bit over half a year.

TJgalon.5012:

No your not, you choose to donate, that not the same as people forced to pay 15$ a month to keep their character and game alive. I know i am not saying this the best, but gem buying as a choice should not make you, or make other belive your owed more, cause you get a values out of using them too how ever you use them.

sure, it’s not forced, but at least a) no content is taken away from you and b) you will never be able to spend your money to purchase an item that gives you absolutely nothing. Gamble boxes, gamble dye packs, infinite continue coin for content that we haven’t seen for over a year.

So yes, it was my choice to donate. However when you pick up how you’re being treated versus how they treated you at the start of the game… I don’t feel like any further money is welcome from me. And it’s fine and dandy because you shouldn’t feel like your input would ever matter as you’re a mere replaceable number to them.

When Guild Wars 2 just launched they had some nice practices though. Like you would at random be gifted a future store item, just for spending money that quarter (my boyfriend and me received the kite for free for example). You were told that there were more classes added over time, the game advertised as “purchase once and get all the future content trough the updates!”. They really turned their backs on all that.

eisberg.2379:

Mirta.5029:

TJgalon.5012:

Mirta.5029:

official answer in this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Good-Customer-Service/first#post5437150
really has upset me.

especially when in other games this:
http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/help/option_service/veteran_rewards/
exists.

I understand trying to keep everyone on an even ground, but I don’t think that rewarding trust and money spent would insult anyone. As it stands a veteran player that made multiple gem purchases is only worth as much as a new player that just decided to buy HoTs. That’s not really encouraging people to spend money in my opinion.

Gem buying does not mean a thing, it was a donation to the game, seeing how you bought the game, that the only part of the money that should count, and even then, you got your money worth x10 i bet.

really? Because I could have just as easily gold -> gems instead. If there’s no appreciation for being both a long time player and devoting your money to the game, then what’s the incentive to continue to do so? If you’re only ever considered the exact same as a free account (except that they get screwed over out of one time events, such as SAB, which I still have to ask why, especially having in mind that Anet sold an infinite continue coin and then took it down permanently over a year ago), why not spend your money with the competition instead?

The difference between a free account and paid account are actually huge. Just to get the same amount of character, bag slots, and access to Season 2 content it costs $56 for a free player to get that a non free account has, and the free account still has all kinds of restrictions to go a long with it. That is far from being “exact same as a free account”

I actually missed the Season 2 and had to buy it with real money. So it was sort of free, if you had the luxury to log in.

eisberg.2379:

Feel free to spend $15 a month in order to play FF14 if you feel that is a better deal.

and I am doing! I was spending 20£ on gem cards a month before to support the game, however with each developer post after the expansion announcement I felt worse and worse. So I moved on to watch if the situation improve even a little bit.

TJgalon.5012:

Mirta.5029:

official answer in this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Good-Customer-Service/first#post5437150
really has upset me.

especially when in other games this:
http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/help/option_service/veteran_rewards/
exists.

I understand trying to keep everyone on an even ground, but I don’t think that rewarding trust and money spent would insult anyone. As it stands a veteran player that made multiple gem purchases is only worth as much as a new player that just decided to buy HoTs. That’s not really encouraging people to spend money in my opinion.

Gem buying does not mean a thing, it was a donation to the game, seeing how you bought the game, that the only part of the money that should count, and even then, you got your money worth x10 i bet.

really? Because I could have just as easily gold → gems instead. If there’s no appreciation for being both a long time player and devoting your money to the game, then what’s the incentive to continue to do so? If you’re only ever considered the exact same as a free account (except that they get screwed over out of one time events, such as SAB, which I still have to ask why, especially having in mind that Anet sold an infinite continue coin and then took it down permanently over a year ago), why not spend your money with the competition instead?

official answer in this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Good-Customer-Service/first#post5437150
really has upset me.

especially when in other games this:
http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/help/option_service/veteran_rewards/
exists.

I understand trying to keep everyone on an even ground, but I don’t think that rewarding trust and money spent would insult anyone. As it stands a veteran player that made multiple gem purchases is only worth as much as a new player that just decided to buy HoTs. That’s not really encouraging people to spend money in my opinion.

Turamarth.3248:

False.
Veteran players get an extra character slot.

oh, fair enough. I might search something like greenmangaming for discounts when this is far closer to release then. One could argue that for the value that I’ve got out of guild wars 2 in these 3 years, 44 euros is a small price to pay, but regardless it’s still a bit steep for a uni student