Guild Wars 2

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Craptrain.7203:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

30/30/10/0/0 is a bad meta, and there were bad metas even before that.

Metas are neither good nor bad, they just are. This is why the other poster questioned your understanding of the word.

It’s the current meta. The 30/30/10/0/0 is bad. How does this not translate to the meta being a bad one? I’m stating that 30/30/10/0/0 is not worthy of being a meta build.

Worthy or not, it is the meta. That’s it. There’s no bad meta or good meta, just the current meta. That’s it. I’m not sure how else to explain it.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

30/30/10/0/0 is a bad meta, and there were bad metas even before that.

Metas are neither good nor bad, they just are. This is why the other poster questioned your understanding of the word.

Metagaming – a broad term usually used to define any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game.

Meluna.1764:

You can’t tell me that it helps the server in any way if you have a group 5+ farming minchars that are trying to get the map completion. You can’t tell me it’s a display of superior skill to camp with 10+ guys the spawn/arena in the JP so no one can finish. The only halfway pleasant WvW experience I ever had was in groups larger than 5, when the Trollzergs can`t just steamroll you and actual play is possible. And no, they don’t do anything, they camp your single corpse forever so they can predict your respawn. And no, that was not a single incident. It is the norm. But the JP I don’t want to do in a zerg, so I keep away from the entire content alltogether. That is why most people hate the wvw maps being a part of world completion. Because it is filled to the brim with people looking just for easy targets instead of serious challenge. Taking up server space from people who would actually enjoy the content.

I’m not sure if this is supposed to answer my question or not. Are you saying that someone who kills you because you’re on the opposing side is somehow a ‘griefer’? Am I understanding you correctly?

Listen, I’m not a fan of WvW at all, but I really can’t really buy the argument that killing opposing players is somehow a community problem, trolling, or griefing. However, if your point is that WvW maps shouldn’t count towards world completion, I agree with you.

Meluna.1764:

Get rid of griefers, trolls. Somehow I always have the feeling this is the majority of PvP players. This includes minigames and WvW. Yes, there are nice people in WvW but they are far and few in between. In PvE I can avoid and block nasty people, PvP specifically awards people griefing. As it is, I’d rather gnaw off my arm than subject myself to useless anger.

Just a question: what do you mean by ‘griefers’ in this context. I can say that of all the failings of the GW2 community, excessive rudeness is not one of them. My time in sPvP and tPvP has been very enjoyable with most everyone being cordial and friendly (same for WvW although I don’t consider the game mode itself enjoyable).

DiogoSilva.7089:

Craptrain.7203:

Meh, that’s not always true. I’ve solo queued before (and gotten a full team of solos) and face-rolled organized guild teams (decent ones at that). During these wins my team had 0 communication, 0 strategy, and 0 cohesiveness. We just all did what we thought was best.

Also happened to me, but I’ve also lost to plenty of premade players that were nothing special. It depends on the degree of skill of each player. Certainly, no matter how organized you are, if you can never win in combat against better players, you’ll never get any points. But there are average players who can coordinate really strong bursts or are very efficient at team rezzing, and against those, unorganized teams just don’t have a chance.

I hear ya. Just trying to make the point that organization does not always trump individual skill and that the latter has a greater impact than the other poster would care to admit.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Kurakura is right in that a well-organized team is better than an unorganized team with individually better players. Of course, at high level tpvp, all players are good. :P

Meh, that’s not always true. I’ve solo queued before (and gotten a full team of solos) and face-rolled organized guild teams (decent ones at that). During these wins my team had 0 communication, 0 strategy, and 0 cohesiveness. We just all did what we thought was best.

Kurakura.7281:

no such thing as “skill” in this game.
Just pick OP build, OP class, mash all the buttons = win.

The amount of practice it takes to be proficient in a class or build is minutes to hours in this game…

In other action MMORPG’s time it takes to be fully proficient in a character class is on the order of months or more.

tPvP is more about organization, having best builds etc. Planning, strategy, and organization easily compensates for individual skill when the other team is disorganized but each player is very skilled.

So no, you haven’t watched high level tPvP then?

I guarantee that there’s a world of difference between two teams running the exact same builds, with exact same strategies, yet one team ‘button mashes’ and the other actually knows their build/role.

Making statements like you’ve made above pretty much shows your knowledge of high level tPvP is severely lacking.

SandruDaniel.4386:

I remember I Liked the Engineer in sPVP with grenadier build ^^ liked to pawn people from top of clock tower for example) Never had the patience to lvl one outside sPVP.
Could give some tips for sPVP ?

Any engineer tips from me might do more harm than good. I’d suggest watching some games with Teldo or I Will Lead You All. You can observe their builds and tactics and you should learn quite a bit about how to successfully play an engineer.

Olba.5376:

Skill?

What kind of skill supposedly exists in the game?

Jumping Puzzles? Yes, if begging for someone else to work for you is skill. Dungeons? Yes, if using the gear and professions that someone else tells you to in a way someone else tells you to.

The only thing I can see reminiscent of actual “skill” would be successful commanders in WvW. And let’s be honest, WvW is mostly about coverage rather than successful leaders.

Have you observed high level tPvP?

I wouldn’t recommend a Berserker’s warrior in PvP. The nice thing, however, is that you can use an entirely different build and setup in PvP if you like. Heck, maybe even try out a few other classes.

Furthering that, any backlogged chests will be awarded once a day at 5pm Pacific Time.

Sil.4560:

lol, I was content not to hear from you at all again in this thread after the posts were deleted. You’re the one who elected to start in again.

There’s really no point in even arguing any of this with you. No matter what real example I provide of one person making a difference (myself and/or others), you’ll write it off as somehow not relevant or insufficient, because you are already fixated in your view of PvP > WvW in skill and honestly I have no interest in changing it because I don’t care what you choose to do with your game time and would rather not see you in the field in the first place. Your only interest here is to cause problems. I’ve no interest in discussing with you further.

If I wasn’t interested in discussing it, I wouldn’t have asked you any questions. I am interested in discussing it. Please enlighten me as to how individual contribution to WvW is somehow greater than in PvE or PvP. I asked you for an example and you declined to give one, so I’m asking again. And again, if you do manage to illustrate a scenario where an individual’s personal skill significantly affects the outcome of an engagement, I’d like to hear how you think a player would find it more rewarding in WvW than in PvE or PvP. You seem to think my original point was somehow ignorant or invalid, but you haven’t offered a single bit of evidence to contradict it.

Sil.4560:

I love how your post insisting we get back to the original topic was deleted, so you feel the need to return in and start things up again.

Regarding your opinion on individual skill, perhaps that is your own experience. I look for and make my own opportunities. One person can make a difference.

I’ll state it again for your benefit. If you have a personal problem with me over 1 post, take it to PM.

As for the discussion at hand, give a realistic example of one person with above average skill significantly influencing a 20v20, 40v40, or even great fight. With graphical display and lag issues, massive amounts of AoE, and things such as arrow carts, trebs, catapults, etc, I find your suggestion that one person’s individual skill has a meaningful impact is laughable. Furthermore, even if you could prove that one person’s skill has an impact in WvW, compare it with the impact in 5v5 tPvP or in 5 man PvE content. Do you honestly think that a person who gets gratification out of meaningful individual contribution would choose WvW over either of those options? This goes back to my original point; how someone who values their own contribution to a fight won’t find much to be satisfied in with WvW.

Willowleaf.5721:

Strange! I rather see that there are a lot of people that DON’T enjoy the jumping content, not the other way around.

Granted, I’m in the ‘dislike jumping’ camp. I however have heard of people enjoying jumping content and quite a few who would enjoy it if camera issues were fixed. I wouldn’t say it’s an even split, but there are camps on either side.

Sil.4560:

Craptrain.7203:

Clearly you don’t understand that I used the word ‘zerg’ and not the words ‘coordinated guild group’. Had I meant the latter, I would have used the latter. Try to read what’s posted before responding.

Craptrain.7203:

The whole “follow the zerg” style of gameplay is simply not fun for me.

Your post quoted first shows that you have very little experience in the way of actually functioning outside of zergs and reeks of the same blatant ignorance that most people who talk about zergs display when they talk about WvW. So yes, what my post is saying is that you are literally not knowledgeable about differences in practice.

Oh, and by the way, a smaller group with enough influence on the server can very much use a zerg tactically simply by its existence simply by suggesting to the pug commander where to hit next.

Not even close to the point I was making.

I’ve functioned both in a zerg AND a coordinated guild group (on a tier 1 server no less). The point was, in either scenario, individual skill means incredibly little. It takes minimal skill to follow someone’s directions on teamspeak and execute them. There’s almost no individual initiative taken. Hence the WoW raid analogy. Understand now?

Sil.4560:

Haven’t heard that one before! Still not original, sorry.

Tell you what, if you’re so offended and really want to engage in some kind of internet argument, send me a PM and we can do it there.

Sil.4560:

Come up with something new to say. It’s just the same crap again and again and again. Dead end effort. I’m reducing your score to a 0/10 for failing to be original at all.

I find everything you wrote incredibly ironic.

Sil.4560:

Clearly you don’t understand the difference between a zerg and a coordinated guild group.

Clearly you don’t understand that I used the word ‘zerg’ and not the words ‘coordinated guild group’. Had I meant the latter, I would have used the latter. Try to read what’s posted before responding.

Bread.7516:

i laughed when you said tactical zerg.

Correct. A ‘tactical zerg’ is like ‘dry water’.

Sil.4560:

Your post probably would’ve worked better if it had made any sense, oh wise one. Nowhere was it implied that GW2 is not enjoyable. But by all means, reproach me with your next pseudo-intellectual comment.

Craptrain.7203:

Perhaps it was you who failed to understand my post, eh?

You did it again. if you take a second to absorb what I’ve written before posting a response, it would make life easier on you, I’m sure.

Sil.4560:

Craptrain.7203:

Perhaps if one needs more enjoyment out of video games, they may want to move to a game that offers it, eh?

As clever as I’m sure you think you are, you don’t seem to have understood my post in the slightest.

Oh no, I understood it. I was simply satirizing your attempt to wax philosophical about needs/wants in a video game. Perhaps it was you who failed to understand my post, eh?

To be honest, I think any jumping puzzle content is too much. Then again, I thought the lack of jumping in GW1 was fine.

Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t ask for any jumping content to be removed, I’m just not enthused about doing it.

aophts.9862:

What ruin PvP and WvW is the attitude of the elitists, all that “i’m so kittening good” “haha, pwned noob” attitude.

Gotta correct you here. I play a ton of PvP (both hot join and tourney) and the chat is friendly/cordial the vast majority of the time. In fact, the only people I see trash talking are those who play very poorly and want to justify their score of 0 through talk.

Sil.4560:

Mirta.5029:

not really. Most people judge optional and not optional by asking a question of “do I have to do this?”
“Do I have to eat?” “Yes” “Do I have to work?” “Yes”
“Do I have to play Guild Wars 2?” “No, but I might want to play Guild Wars 2” “Do I have to get a legendary?” “No, but I might want to get a legendary” “Do I have to get achievement points?” “No, but I might want to get the shinies that come with achievement points, so I’ll dedicate my free tome to get them”.
See the difference?

If the entire game is a “want” the the entire argument is moot. One may as well examine what one needs to do to get X level of enjoyment from the game itself, in which case tangible rewards come into play as a logical goal requiring specific needs.

Perhaps if one needs more enjoyment out of video games, they may want to move to a game that offers it, eh?

I play both tPvP and PvE regularly and I have no desire to play WvW. The whole “follow the zerg” style of gameplay is simply not fun for me. My personal level of skill means little/nothing. I have no desire to spam my #1 attack in a crowd of 40 people. If I wanted that, I’d play WoW.

Hakkology.3189:

Hello.

Just keep getting more exotics. Under very good conditions, my Ghastly Claws hits up to 15k and Life Blast hits up to 9k. On average, life blast hits 5k-6k, ghastly claws 8k-11k. Keep getting more might, and stack vulnerabilities at the same time with all the damage boost you can get (potions, food etc).

Don’t forget to use gems or might duration runes will also increase your dps on your exotics. Just don’t pay for them for your rare gear.

I still think its nowhere close to a zerker warrior, but it does the trick most of the time.

This. These are the numbers I see out of my ‘Zerker necro, and it’s not quite fully geared out yet (still need a few ascended items).

If you had gone to page 2…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Good-necro-Spvp-Tpvp-builds/first#post2389207

And no one is forcing you to come back. Easy solution, huh?

Zardul.3952:

This game is boring.
i have more excitement playing PS1 Rayman…
or Mario Kart.

id call this game a Slow, repetitive, buggy version of an MMO.

would it kill them to put something hillairous in there…… like Random Lion Arch Raids from the Skritt..
who wield Fish as Swords…

not these predictable Events that you can see in the top right hand side of your screen.

There’s a solution to that. Play Rayman or Mario Kart instead.

Seriously people, if you’re having such a bad time playing GW2 just stop playing. It’s not like you pay a sub fee.

This thread brought to you by the same people who said “exotic gear is too hard to get” at launch.

In PvE content, you’ll see much better results with a power necro using wells. In PvP, you’ll see much better returns on a condi necro.

Most of the people I see getting facerolled by the new influx of necros are ones who pop their condi removal at the first sign of 3 bleeds. I rarely see anyone wait until they have a significant amount of condis on them before using removal. Perhaps if people were smarter about skill usage and not “OMGWTFMUSTREMOVEONEBLEED” they’d find more success against necros, eh?

Tenderly.7019:

I feel as though there are 3 good variants right now to condition builds in tPvP/sPvP.

---

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNArYWjMat7Nbeb87JEJFPD0A9oXwFQMSxxEMA-TsAgyCpI+S9l7LzXyvsfN8Y5xkAA

Plague Signet

**either Reaper’s Protection or Mark of Evasion

30/20/20
Carrion/Rabid or Rabid/Rabid

---

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNArYWjMat7hbeb8bKEpCPD0jdBXAxIFHTwQVAeA-TsAgyCpI+S9l7LzXyvsfN8Y5xkAA

Spectral Walk

30/20/10/0/10
Carrion/Rabid or Rabid/Rabid

---

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNArYWjMat7Vaaa87JEpCPD0jdBXAxoHHTwMMA-TsAgyCuI+S9l7LzXyvsfN8Y5xkAA

Wells

30/30/10
Carrion/Carrion

---

The 5% crit sigil can be anything but an on-switch or on-crit sigil.

Source:

Rank 51
Over 2k tPvP Games
Over 1500 Hours as Necro
Play with and vs high tier players

Hope this helps.

If you want to run one of the current meta builds, use one of the 3 mentioned here. Others will fall short.

crestpiemangler.7631:

If you’re relying on marks to be your AOE for fast leveling, you’re already working ineffeciently. A single well outperforms the best mark for AoE purposes, and is more than adequate to reduce mob HP to one-hit level. Not to mention DS4 is superior AoE to marks as well.

In all reality, if you want to level quickly you go with a power build and skip the staff altogether.

But hey, maybe you have a different definition of ‘necessity’ than the rest of the world.

I don’t use a single mark, I use all of them at once and since the radius is so large, I don’t have to herd and can swap to a dagger/scepter to mop up….

oh yeah, I can use a well on top of that like mentioned

That’s horrifically inefficient. If the goal is leveling swiftly, you’re deliberately hurting yourself by doing that.

crestpiemangler.7631:

Craptrain.7203:

crestpiemangler.7631:

Craptrain.7203:

crestpiemangler.7631:

Basically, you will NEED/WANT 10 points in death for the greater mark area. It’s almost a necessity in all aspects of this game, even in PvP.

Not at all a necessity for PvE content. Not even close.

Whatever you say. Enjoy your pathetic baseball radii.

It’s PvE. Not at all like it’s difficult to place marks on AI. Do you have difficulty in doing so?

Yes, problem? You also conveniently avoided the fact that you are often faced with large groups of mobs in PvE, especially solo. You will not be able to cover dispersed groups as you would with greater marks.

If you want to solo/level up, GM is a must .. as much as having a staff is for a group of mobs.

If you’re relying on marks to be your AOE for fast leveling, you’re already working ineffeciently. A single well outperforms the best mark for AoE purposes, and is more than adequate to reduce mob HP to one-hit level. Not to mention DS4 is superior AoE to marks as well.

In all reality, if you want to level quickly you go with a power build and skip the staff altogether.

But hey, maybe you have a different definition of ‘necessity’ than the rest of the world.

crestpiemangler.7631:

Craptrain.7203:

crestpiemangler.7631:

Basically, you will NEED/WANT 10 points in death for the greater mark area. It’s almost a necessity in all aspects of this game, even in PvP.

Not at all a necessity for PvE content. Not even close.

Whatever you say. Enjoy your pathetic baseball radii.

It’s PvE. Not at all like it’s difficult to place marks on AI. Do you have difficulty in doing so?

Having a staff in your WvW build and not taking Greater Marks is ill advised. Personally, I’d go 30-0-10-0-30 if you want to play a WvW power necro. I’d also consider dagger/focus over dagger/dagger. The boon strip and chill on #5 is very useful, I’ve found.

As for gear, if you really want to make the most out of those 30 points in Soul Reaping, stick with berserker. The +crit damage is much more important for a power build than any +condi. If you wanted to do a hybrid, then a case could be made for Rampager’s, but if power is how you want to go, it’s a poor choice.

Already got my perfect one.

Sylvari necro = Rotten Veggies

crestpiemangler.7631:

Basically, you will NEED/WANT 10 points in death for the greater mark area. It’s almost a necessity in all aspects of this game, even in PvP.

Not at all a necessity for PvE content. Not even close.

Inflated sense of entitlement akittens finest.

Ran against someone using a build just like this in PvP. I was running the standard 30-30-10 and absolutely slaughtered them. I don’t see it as being very useful (for PvP at least.)

You people…seriously. You won’t be happy until there’s only one class in the game with one ability.

Consume Conditions is exactly where it needs to be. If you’re concerned about the other heals not getting enough play, then those need to be buffed to be equally attractive options.

HiSaZuL.2843:

I can kill necro in pvt gear in 3 hits. There is no necro spec that lets you do that to even the squishiest specs w/o getting massively lucky having full lf and having opponent stand still. Oh soooo overpowered… yeah… sure… Keep on preaching that.

What good necro runs PVT gear?

Blaine Tog.8304:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

As far as I’m concerned none of you are focused on my builds anymore, and just my general attitude. If you don’t like it, ignore it.

Good teachers don’t rage at their students. They are patient. They engage their students. Being a good teacher involves personality, showmanship, and a heapton of patience for stupidity and surliness.

As an actual teacher in real life (not GW2), thank you for appreciating what we do.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Craptrain.7203:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

flow.6043:

Mammoth.1975:

So the blind cold and afraid build gets melted in 15s by the ubercrap 30/30/10 played by one of the worst players you have ever seen. GG owning yourself repeatedly in the face.

I laughed so hard at this xD

To be fair, if Tut Tut really just had 0% lf then yeah… kinda hard to battle another necro with 100%.
On the other hand, how can you (Altroll) evaluate Xom’s capabilities as a player if you observed one match that lasted 15 seconds against a build that isn’t made for dueling?
Wouldn’t it have been a lot better (for educational purposes) to fight Xom yourself with a competetive build, like your potentate…?

It wasn’t 15 seconds, it lasted around 23-35 seconds, which is average for a duel. He also decided to kite Tut into a small area where he could use Fear to his advantage.

Anyhow, that was the next step. I was going to test him personally on multiple classes and some of my Necro builds. My first fight against him I was going to use my Warrior, until he quit the test and went on to say this:

Which I actually was going to agree to and use my Potentate/Tormentor under 1 condition, that the fight take place on point. Which he swiftly ignored and told me that I could not use my Necro.

The screenshot attached to this post makes you look a lot worse than it makes Xo look. Just sayin’.

There was alot of his nonsense leading up to that, after a while Tut and myself got tired of him. I realized it was going no where. I didn’t screenshot until after he started being weird and quit the test. I was as respectable/nice as I could possibly be in the beginning, though still cynical that it wouldn’t work. I’ve dealt with forumites before in competitive games, and they are generally never swayed. As far as I’m concerned none of you are focused on my builds anymore, and just my general attitude. If you don’t like it, ignore it.

If you do not believe my screenshots/word, Tut Tut is my witness, and halfway through the conversation another person with no past ties to me joined the convo and also began to immediately find Xom to be unable to understand basic subject matter.

Who is Tut Tut? Is he a friend of yours? I haven’t heard of him.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

flow.6043:

Mammoth.1975:

So the blind cold and afraid build gets melted in 15s by the ubercrap 30/30/10 played by one of the worst players you have ever seen. GG owning yourself repeatedly in the face.

I laughed so hard at this xD

To be fair, if Tut Tut really just had 0% lf then yeah… kinda hard to battle another necro with 100%.
On the other hand, how can you (Altroll) evaluate Xom’s capabilities as a player if you observed one match that lasted 15 seconds against a build that isn’t made for dueling?
Wouldn’t it have been a lot better (for educational purposes) to fight Xom yourself with a competetive build, like your potentate…?

It wasn’t 15 seconds, it lasted around 23-35 seconds, which is average for a duel. He also decided to kite Tut into a small area where he could use Fear to his advantage.

Anyhow, that was the next step. I was going to test him personally on multiple classes and some of my Necro builds. My first fight against him I was going to use my Warrior, until he quit the test and went on to say this:

Which I actually was going to agree to and use my Potentate/Tormentor under 1 condition, that the fight take place on point. Which he swiftly ignored and told me that I could not use my Necro.

The screenshot attached to this post makes you look a lot worse than it makes Xo look. Just sayin’.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Let’s take words for example, meta to someones eyes may mean ‘This is the best build atm’ but to me from his title it was just something catchy to capture his list of builds and tie in with his in-game name.

So when someone tries to sell you a car and says “this car is red and has 360 horsepower engine” and when you see the brown car with the 200 horsepower engine, you’re cool with that? You’re cool with the used car salesman saying this car is the best and any engineer who says otherwise is ignorant and elitist?

I’m sorry, I really can’t understand your position here.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Xom.9264:

The main issue I think you have Mighty is you dont take into consideration team gameplay when you make builds. Sure a build might be good however if there is a class that fills that role better in Tpvp thats the class that gets the slot. Good necros understand other classes and their job in teams so when a good necro makes a build they will build to fill a spot in the group that other classes can not do better, this limits options a great deal its does for all classes.

Zerker guardians for example are fine and fun, but there are other classes that fill the role better.

Regarding Minions they can work great on close point however when you reach the highest rated teams limitations will show. You dont know this because you have not played the game at that level its also the reason why alot of your statements are considered jokes by some necros here. Its another game when you start fighting the best players instead of just average players.

Call the builds what they are, casual builds that do fine in spvp and very low level tpvp. Nothing wrong with running non-optimal builds I do it alot for fun and a change, I just dont fool myself into thinking they are top notch builds.

Yet again another insult to me as a player and a theory crafter. These builds will work, and most do not require heavy team changing for top levels of PvP. Everyone has gotten used to Necro being a babysit class, most of these builds do not have to be. I will work with a top PvP team to get them to understand this if need be.

Dude, calm down. It wasn’t an insult, he was highlighting an area you need improvement in and a pretty accurate one at that. If you can’t handle a little constructive criticism presented in a cordial manner (and by internet standards, this was incredibly cordial), your life is going to be exceedingly difficult.

DrArmature.4619:

ust reached 100,000 hours playing Necromancer, second only to Xom who has recently surpassed infinity hours, I have gained a new ability called “Xomfire”. Purchased with just one skill point it allows you to dual-wield Scythes with an ability that does the damage of 1000blades (yes 1000) while stacking every condition in the game to 50 within a 1500 range PbAoE. Does extra damage if TheMightyAltrolls tears are collected while saying All Hail Mighty Xomfire in map chat.

But have you theory crafted at least 119 fully tournament viable builds?

Silly rabbit, you should know a build isn’t viable unless is has a name consisting of three words or more.