It’s because this forum is particularly obsessed with melee grade DPS. For some reason necros have to be able to do it to. If you win a fight even though the math says you’ll lose. The math is no longer valid.
Uhm, care to elaborate on that? Because I’m not sure if I get your point.
I personally prefer D/F over D/W, always have and probably always will.
Hm. Dunno if they really are “semi“ but here are a few:
- [PA] Ping Aquabreather
- [tS] Transnational Syndicate
- [eS] Ethereal Synergy
If it helps, I have a friend in eS who’s apparently rather happy over there.
ran a party through this instability that was built and designed around boon removal.
Necros and mesmers. and all their corruption and stripping glory.
you cannot strip them fast enough. you cannot corrupt them fast enough.
so what we did was…
ignored it entirely.
went back to our regular builds and proceeded to roll through it.
Blind spam and dodging is a thing.
Exactly this. Had a Necro (me) and a Mesmer in a pug who actually went with Sword and Null Field. IT JUST DIDN’T HELP. I even dropped Decimate Defenses for all it was worth and it didn’t do a thing.
AAAaaaand today fractal guilds were looking for players again in map chat, guess which was the only class being left out in their list?
NERF NECRO!
Why would you want to play with morons?
This is another good point. If nothing else, this is a good litmus test for who you probably don’t want to play with anyway. Not that they are necessarily wrong about Necro being less optimal than other classes for super duper record runs, but I always preferred to play with people, not classes.
It’s not even that, but in my experience, most people don’t even know the necro skillset. They’re not even aware what a necro can do. I had it happen so often that people go “why are the enemy projectiles not hitting” when I dropped CPC because I expected everyone else to slack with their defenses, or “how did you teleport + getting me back up without actively reviving me and why are we not bleeding out” when running blood magic. Today I also had someone watching me do the heat room in Thaumanova and he asked me how I was able to leap forward like that while ignoring the speed debuff (I used Death’s Charge which makes the room easily soloable for Necros now and since they changed it so movement skills aren’t affected by movement impairing/enhancing effects… well.)
Yes, there’s other classes that can do lots of things easier than we can, but not taking Necros with you “just because” is a really, really bad sign. Besides, most of those “no necro” groups have no idea about efficiency.
Thanks friend! Unfortunately my mobile does strange things with the forums so I’m resorted to asking the famously good-spirited and friendly community.
Heh, fair enough. Anyway, you’re welcome.
First page, red post, pretty obvious title: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Fractal-Master-Collection-Bug/
AAAaaaand today fractal guilds were looking for players again in map chat, guess which was the only class being left out in their list?
NERF NECRO!
Why would you want to play with morons?
Oh wow, I’m an idiot that can’t read properly X)
I just assumed it would be the usual 2 rings, 2 accessories etc.etc.
Yeah, that’s what you’d assume, but it’s just three amulets with different infusion slots.
Hmm yeah, I just checked again ig. Maybe the tool-tips are just wrong/buggy?
Edit: Or is it really just the amulet that has selectable stats? That would be… weird.
They’re all amulets.
The last amulet (Mordrem Loop) has no stats by default, I guess you can pick Viper out of the list.
In all honesty, I think we just had “bad luck” today with the dailies. Actually, I don’t even mind that much since it helps me getting the first part of the legendary backpiece done faster.
I do hope we see 50+ recommended scales at some point though; my guess is that Anet is waiting out a bit so that people can progress before the game throws a 90 at us which 95% of the playerbase can’t even run
1. Condition cap.
2. Lack of group support.
3. Spreadsheets putting them last DPS wise (rightly or wrongly).
1. ???? Condition Cap has been removed months ago.
2. Has been getting much better.
3. eh
Removal of scales 51-100 confirmed
:^)
Ahh I see, thanks.
The tooltip shows the big hit. The other 9 hits are 10% of the tooltip. So the total coefficient is 1.84. Which makes the skill pretty good for dps.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1flyI2qHv704UUVYqIJeuo6IzY_J0gXAT623eMY38twI/edit#gid=0
Edit: Im too slow. x)
And its not first hits. It seems to do 6 small hits, then the big hit then the final 3 small hits. No idea why. But meh.
….you’re right with that I didn’t even notice lol.
Also, it seems like the big hit can cleave while the small ones don’t, can you confirm/deny that? //Nvm they can all cleave, the game just… doesn’t for me sometimes, idk why.
Oh, while we’re at it, could you (or anyone, really) tell me what the C in CPS stands for?
According to spoj, the first hits do 10% of the damage and yes, it’s a dps increase.
They will still be accountbound, I guess they copied the upgrade extractor from the gemshop and forgot to change that note.
change is scary.
So is not having a single way you know will always win for you.
The whole POINT in boon fumbler (for instance) is that you can’t use boon stacking as a shortcut.
Except that you still can because you can mostly facetank some hits and use active defenses for the rest. That doesn’t make it a good instability as it still punishes you for playing well. Why not make it “lose all boons on wasted dodge” or “lose all boons on hit” instead? That would punish bad performance much worse.
Alright… I just soloed 33 Cliffside on my Nec and… Idk. I really don’t know. It was something I always dreaded to do, even on lower scales, simply because of the mechanics there.
First off, I know, yeah, 33 isn’t exactly a high scale but if you put it in relation, pre-patch that meant you ran over 100 islands, now it means you’re done with 1/3rd of the scales, so you would expect some degree of difficulty. I also usually don’t mention this either because I see no reason to, but I have dyspraxia, which means I have terrible timing and often mess up key-presses by simply pressing the wrong key or doing even more kittened things. And I have to say, the biggest threat during the whole fractal was… my own stupidity. I haven’t really felt at danger from the mobs once (Though I admit, Archdiviner would’ve probably caused more trouble without minions. His Leap still only hits for roughly 6k on this scale, though. lol) and my total of four deaths didn’t happen because the enemies were particularly threatening, but because I went with the wrong approach once, managed to Death’s Charge myself down the platform, I dropped the hammer too late and because thinking you can just walk through the fire at the chest seal is a dumb idea.
Yet, I was able to solo the fractal without really struggling a lot overall. Before someone goes ahead and says “yeah go do higher scales”, I did various fractals (or at least part of them) between 50 and 80 solo. I can’t say I often felt actually threatened, though there were some scales that actually proven to be pretty difficult solo, for example 64 Thaumanova, basically every Aetherblade Retreat because kitten those Thugs and the beginning of Molten Facility (those Dredge hurt like mad idk how they do that). The main reason for them being so threatening (solo) is actually the damage and HP they have; they’re killable but they don’t blow up immediately and if you don’t watch out, they do hurt. I liked that.
Imo, such balance should be achieved throughout the whole fractals. Enemies, bosses in particular, that don’t die immediately but also don’t take 10 minutes to kill (not that this is a bad thing in general, but most bosses in fractals have mechanics that get tedious and boring if you’re forced to do them for such an amount of time in one go)
There’s also some point around 50 where the game seems to just flip a switch for bosses, at least it felt like to me. Enemies in 41-50 survived some time because of the instability, but looking past those levels it quickly feels like their Atk-Stats started to get a bit lower again/stop rising while they get toughness for breakfast every day, whereas before you look at them and they die. It would be better if it starts scaling faster or at least more constantly.
Now, I know I can’t back this last part up since I don’t have any numbers, but from my observations it really feels like this.
Step 1: Like nearlight said, use minions.
Traits: Death Magic (1, 1, 1), Blood Magic (3, 3, 3), Reaper (1, 1 or 2, 3)
Weapon set 1: Greatsword
Weapon set 2: StaffStats: Any tanky set will do, I personally like cleric’s (although I would like it even more if power was the main stat).
Healing skill: Blood Fiend
Utility skill 1: Rise!
Utility skill 2: Summon Bone Minions
Utility skill 3: Signet of the Locust
Elite skill: Summon Flesh GolemStep 2: ???
Step 3: Facetank champions.
I’d suggest DM 1-3-2 and Spite 1-2-2 instead for more damage, but I guess if you want to go the really, really safe route, then BM 3-3-1 or 3 would work. I personally just run around with Rise/Bone Minions (either or for me), Blood Fiend and Flesh Golem if I go around with Minions. Other two slots are Well of Suffering and Corruption for me, I don’t like to give them up tbh.
Holy kitten really
They always said in OPTIMAL situations you can reach that, of course in actual encounters mileage will vary, how is that a difficult concept to graspNo… it’s not even in OPTIMAL situation… it’s actually NEVER.
Now… please write what you just wrote to me, to every single one of the people who argue with me and continue to claim sinister engineer and staff elementalist does 20K DPS.
Also google Obal revenant build, and write that in the comment section of his newly 25K DPS revenant video… in which you can actually hear him say the words “you do 15K DPS just by auto-attacking”.
Thank you.
PS:
Engineer “optimal” DPS = 20K / Necromancer “optimal” DPS = 14K
Engineer REAL DPS = 9-11K / Necromancer REAL DPS = 12-14KNow… let’s exclude all necromancers from “teh meta”, for two years, based on math.
Or… let’s all go squishy melee zerkers vs “heavy armor deadly AoE whirlwind attacking” boss… based on math.I wonder how they will ever show you actually need a tank/support in some situations with the math… i’m curious…
I don’t watch any DPS or build videos, I build my own stuff and for DPS I admittedly go after what I see and what I experience on my own – Which is of course not entirely accurate, but it works best for me as I have dyspraxia and not kittening up rotations at some point is completely out of question for me. The only thing I do is look at other’s traitlines to get ideas as they might see synergies I simply overlooked, or pick different approaches at things than I do which might actually be better.
As for Obal’s claim I obviously can’t say a thing, I know however that I can do 5k AA-chains (no I’m not saying DPS) with my Rev’s sword, pretty much unbuffed in Exo gear without sigils because I didn’t play her much yet and thus didn’t have to buy them.
Also, only idiots or wannabe-pug-speedclearers excluded Necros – in all my time playing this game I got kicked two or three times despite me rolling Necro probably at least 75% of the time. I got a ton of idiot pugs, of course, but that’s not because I play Necro but because the average pug is, well. Lets say I somehow managed to get four Guards into my group for Volcanic yesterday and neither of them ever dropped a WoR at any point of the fractal.
As a side note, I always played my Necromancer as Melee-Berserker, even when I started the first thing I did after cap was getting Dagger/Focus and Berserker-Gear because that just felt like the right thing to do for me – Not that it really matters for the topic but yeah.
Holy kitten really
They always said in OPTIMAL situations you can reach that, of course in actual encounters mileage will vary, how is that a difficult concept to grasp
Viable =/= Optimal, we had this a few posts above.
Reaper Spec does help in dungeons, but things die fast and your mobility still sucks for the most part so it’s eh
However, Necros are much better in Fractals. This is the place where you can actually make use of all this kitten you have but never get around to use it in dungeons. There’s a lot of things that you can suddenly slot for various encounters, helping your party out a lot. One of the best things is the Blood Magic line imo, the vampiric traits help with sustain and you can either go Vampiric Rituals for some Prot and more leech or you go Transfusion and watch as you save everyones rear. “yeah but good parties don’t die yadda yadda” – Everyone kittens up every now and then, it’s just bound to happen, especially in group settings where you’re just casually doing your dailies or just progress through some fractals.
idk, I tried Engi, Ele, Rev and Necro. The class I facerolled the most with was Ele, Fire Staff just did pretty much all the work. I also suck badly at Ele despite having a few hundred hours clocked.
Necro gets an advantage during longer fights, since you can withstand quite a lot in comparison to everyone else, even more so when going DM; but that’s how it’s meant to be, nerfing this would mean you’re nerfing one of the “cornerstones” of the Necro, so to speak.
Been working on some calculations to work out optimal rotations etc. Heres some of the stuff so far: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1flyI2qHv704UUVYqIJeuo6IzY_J0gXAT623eMY38twI/edit?usp=sharing
If anyone has correct aftercasts for skills, that input would be much appreciated.
You continue to teach people to play the game based on math in a void which is 100% fake an irrelevant, instead of in game mechanics… even though you actually recently admitted your numbers do not reflect reality.
I already saw the “heavy armor” legendary champion wipe out an entire zerg of melee berserkers at Mordremoth chain events, and merely 2-3 seconds later you had at least 20-30 people complaining that this boss is wayyyy too hard.
Your calculations you and your friends do will ruin raids, people will use improper builds for the raids… do 2K REAL DPS… die… complain to nerf content until it can be done with your bad fake math builds.
Stop.
snip
Nemesis. How else are we supposed to determine the best builds and the best skills to use in a rotation if we dont use math to confirm value for cast time? Math in a void has its use. Its the same use ive always advocated it for; theorycrafting the optimum. Reality doesnt match. But you still want to use the same skills you worked out as the best and math is important in determining that. Guessing based on the numbers you see has no value. Because that does not accurately take into account cast times, aftercasts and cooldowns.
Ive already made some interesting discoveries with this data. Which i never would have worked out by guessing…
And i havent even started plugging in stats and determining whether secondary effects like poison, burn, lifesteal and chill shift the optimum in unexpected ways.
Spoj, just… just stop. He’ll never get it.
That being said, thanks for the calculations, that will probably prove quite useful once I get everything on there. lol
As for Death’s Charge, yeah, the last hit does the main part of the damage with the first ones probably just being there for the projectile destruction (there was a note on that damage number, hence why I’m saying this)
lol
Reaper is just fine, really.
Also, how can you even judge that Reaper has an easier time than the other classes in the jungle if you’re not interested in them? Because this implies you a) don’t have any other classes or b) don’t play them often so you’re not as knowledgeable/used to them and thus perform worse than on the Necro you play a lot with and know from the inside out.
Just add HP and remove toughness, it ends up being kind of the same but at least it doesn’t devalue berserker/direct damage so much.
In all honesty though, we wouldn’t even need cubic tons of toughness/hp if they would’ve stopped being lazy and created instabilities tailored to each fractal island instead of going ahead and just slapping instabilities we had in a similar fashion before on the different tiers. That was the real way to add difficulty to fractals and they failed gloriously.
I hear people saying “I’ll just go do X while we kill this boss”
X being a random householdtask / surfing the internet / playing other game.
Isnt it ridiculous the level of concentration and skill you require of your players in the new fractals?
What fractal are you playing? Lol there are hard fractals and there are easy fractals, ofc if you do mossman all day you can practically afk with enough support from your teammates. Other than that I think your statement is bullkitten. I wanna see you do 100 while doing household chores, or 97 or 94, even 64, well I could go on and list a bunch of somewhat more challenging fractals for you if you want a challenge. Oh but wait people just wanna do the easy ones to get the rewards and than complain how easy it was. There are easy fractals and there are hard ones that’s how it has always been.
I have yet to push past 90, but until now there was barely anything that actually challenged us. Most of the time it was tedious as all hell because of the insane toughness on mobs.
I sadly can’t provide a build right now, but Condis in general are much better these days. Necro however isn’t such a great Condi-DD, ironically. It still works, though.
Don’t worry guys, we still have Ad Infinitum.
The terrifying, constant sound of ponies being flung at the Imbued Shaman during the whole encounter from the only shortbow user, and said shortbow user being a thief…
While soloing my fractal daily… It’s something, I guess.
Yeah I know it doesn’t say much etc. (I don’t even know how much armor the Champ has, probably no too much on 23) but it’s nice to see that we can hit those numbers and technically go beyond them in a party.
Went ahead and salvaged 15 trinkets yesterday (mostly rings, one amulet, two accessories). The last accessory gave me a dark ball; it was a Nomads trinket I got from living story, out of all things.
Are you certain about that? I read on the wiki that you can’t get them from Living Story rewards, which makes sense, although I’d like it if that info is incorrect, since I have absolutely no other use for them.
Yeah, my memory might be kitten but I can guarantee you the Quetzal Crest dropped it for me. The wiki isn’t always right; especially on new content there’s wrong info to be found, simply because people don’t know it better yet.
The lower damage actually makes non zerker specs a little more favourable. Due to constant high pressure. But the super high toughness and health does the opposite for a time perspective. But then the pressure is also no longer ignorable. So sustain and defence has shifted into a bit of active and a bit of passive.
Im a little torn about it. I like that i have to change my builds a bit more for some encounters. Im not too happy about the shift into requiring more passive defence even with good active defence management. And im certainly not happy about how long it takes to kill some bosses now. Its definitely better to have them last longer than they did before. But for some of them its far too extreme (flame effigy on molten duo erghh).
The Anomaly in Thaumanova. Worst offender due to melee downtime when every platform ever blows up.
I can’t really say I experienced what you described though, then again I don’t know how it looks in 91-100. Some fights really need to get toughness reduced though, even if they ramp up the HP in turn.
You can stand on the corner of his central hexagon and won’t fall down. Tho he does the knockdowns that ignore stability but still no need to move anywhere.
TIL. lol
Sounds incredibly risky, though.
The only way to move away from a zerker meta is to make damage completely unavoidable with planning and skill, and doing that just shifts things to “Stack enough vitality to survive and zerker the rest”.
There is another way to kill zerker. One that isn’t vulnerable to players finding one way to play with full zerker that they didn’t close off. One that is much more honest. One that doesn’t leave players sitting around in useless gear if it’s successful. Just remove zerker gear from the game.
Why would they remove zerker gear from the game
I wish you’d get a title for having all fractal achievements
I need muh bragging rights
^
I was SO saddended when I saw there’s no title for clearing all 100 scales/having all achievements
The lower damage actually makes non zerker specs a little more favourable. Due to constant high pressure. But the super high toughness and health does the opposite for a time perspective. But then the pressure is also no longer ignorable. So sustain and defence has shifted into a bit of active and a bit of passive.
Im a little torn about it. I like that i have to change my builds a bit more for some encounters. Im not too happy about the shift into requiring more passive defence even with good active defence management. And im certainly not happy about how long it takes to kill some bosses now. Its definitely better to have them last longer than they did before. But for some of them its far too extreme (flame effigy on molten duo erghh).
The Anomaly in Thaumanova. Worst offender due to melee downtime when every platform ever blows up.
I can’t really say I experienced what you described though, then again I don’t know how it looks in 91-100. Some fights really need to get toughness reduced though, even if they ramp up the HP in turn.
Im not saying you need to switch away from berserker. But you are certainly forced think about passive defence. I ended up using minions and death magic everytime its aetherblade fractal. Because the golems and the agony walls just create too much pressure and you cant really kill the golems fast enough unless you are really perfectly coordinated. So afk sustaining it with minions doing the work makes it go a lot faster. x)
Ah I think we’re kind of misunderstanding each other here, I know you never said that but I never felt like I have to think about more passive defense, then again yeah Necro… lol. I guess that’s more apparant for other classes.
For Aetherblade Retreat I usually go with “Nothing can save you!” and two wells, that works for me, but the minion approach isn’t a bad idea either. Still can’t believe minions are so good now. lol Best use for them is when fighting the Anomaly though imo. They just… don’t die, ever and they don’t care about the concept called gravity either.
Went ahead and salvaged 15 trinkets yesterday (mostly rings, one amulet, two accessories). The last accessory gave me a dark ball; it was a Nomads trinket I got from living story, out of all things.
The lower damage actually makes non zerker specs a little more favourable. Due to constant high pressure. But the super high toughness and health does the opposite for a time perspective. But then the pressure is also no longer ignorable. So sustain and defence has shifted into a bit of active and a bit of passive.
Im a little torn about it. I like that i have to change my builds a bit more for some encounters. Im not too happy about the shift into requiring more passive defence even with good active defence management. And im certainly not happy about how long it takes to kill some bosses now. Its definitely better to have them last longer than they did before. But for some of them its far too extreme (flame effigy on molten duo erghh).
The Anomaly in Thaumanova. Worst offender due to melee downtime when every platform ever blows up.
I can’t really say I experienced what you described though, then again I don’t know how it looks in 91-100. Some fights really need to get toughness reduced though, even if they ramp up the HP in turn.
Battle on the Breachmaker fractal when
Uh? English plz, no phiw expressions here
Sorry I’m still new to this game
Battle on the Breachmaker fractal when
Was this shut down to raise the price of upgrading the agony infusions or was that an unintended side effect?
The patch notes mention that the higher price is intended.
Pre-Fractured rings can’t be attuned for reasons probably no one knows.
It only took 3 years, but it is finally here:
https://i.imgur.com/LW5JSl1.jpg
ArenaNet does listen to us!
I have to admit, you just made me check if that’s just an elaborate fake.
Holy kitten. lol
What Mitch is on about is that the main reason to remove gold never was that people got too much from dungeons, but because they wanted to get people to stay away from them. Yet, we have tons of CoF p1 farmers instead of getting the masteries somewhere else.
What is this doing in the 2nd page!?
… sooooo, which golden weapon should I pick? Which is the least ugly?
Sword is the only acceptable looking one imo from those I saw
Thank you for finally giving us a response.