Guild Wars 2

if i were testing things i’d probably start out by using the steady weapons to minimize variance but that’s just me.

it’s kinda funny cause once warriors get nerfed, necros/sd thief/spirit ranger(potentially) will be getting qqed about, mesmer damage needs nerfing too, elementalist damage(arcane/airburst) could probably be reduced too. In turn you need to reduce guardian survivability. The joys of balance.

‘questionable’? this is simple math.

IDarko.4709:

Oblivion.8307:

i never encountered the whole d/d thing, nobody ever ran it on eu. s/d clerics was all the rage on eu, but that didn’t really have damage. It had enough damage to kill very slowly.

lolwut? d/d was meta in EU for a long time as well.

in tpvp? no.

Personally I’d like to see the base number drastically lowered with the healing coefficient increased by a margin so valkyries/clerics could become a better choice for a warrior I guess. You could either do that or make the signet risk/reward by changing it completely overhauling the passive and actives.

In all honesty the strongest heal is probably the engineers if you’re using it on cooldown picking it up, due to the regen you get, plus it’s aoe. Mesmer is pretty strong too if you’re spamming it on cooldown with 3 clones. I just think having to use a heal on cooldown to even compare to healing signet (and still fall short of it) to be a tad to much.

you can edit the healing power figure.

If you’re literally spamming your heal every cooldown, you’re still not going to be reaching the same healing output as a warrior. Does that not strike you as a little op? Guardians get what, a block every 30s combined with a really low coefficient/base heal? They do have passive regen/f2 to comprimise for this yeah. Eles don’t meet the same sustain spamming a 3s channel every 15 seconds. That’s 20% downtime healing over a minute and still not reaching the same sustain. Sure, you remove condis when you heal but if the warrior’s poisoned for the duration it’s going to be 24% less effective than ether renewal, but then again signet can’t be interrupted/doesn’t have to be cast. As I said previously somewhere the only heal that can really compare to the warriors is healing turret due to the 2 condition removal/regen/15sec cooldown. But then again, you add some random guy giving the warrior regen, the warrior using f1 and voila. Maintaining some ridiculous healing by doing… nothing?
If you’re going to have such a passive skill in the game you can’t give it such high base numbers with a fairly high coefficient. It needs to be low base with a high coefficient so it rewards healing power going into builds. Otherwise there’s no diversity and what’s the point of running mending/healing surge over it? If you can’t comprehend what I’m trying to tell you then I really have no idea how to explain it better, I’m sorry.

ya im just saying d/d was never ran on eu since everybody ran thief/mes/sd clerics /hgh. Fact is cantrips/bunker ele would still be viable if everything wasn’t so op right now.

i never encountered the whole d/d thing, nobody ever ran it on eu. s/d clerics was all the rage on eu, but that didn’t really have damage. It had enough damage to kill very slowly.

Was updating it to have old heal signet on, should be back up again.

the reason I didn’t add regen is a) cause i’m lazy and b) you can get regeneration from outside sources. c) to keep it simple.

results are surprising in some areas, pretty obvious in others. (this is pretty much spamhealing on cooldown)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqJmSpUbvES4dC1NTXJJTmJhd29wbmZycEpMWjVDS3c&usp=drive_web#gid=0

the reason I didn’t add regen is a) cause i’m lazy and b) you can get regeneration from outside sources.

You get the highest base heal/sec in the game with a ridiculous healing coefficient compared for doing.. Nothing? It also doesn’t take into account adrenal health either. I did do one for the engineers blast finisher. I guess I could add ranger leaping through healing spring twice per heal which would equate to what, 5280(.8)? This is just really to show how strong healing signet is, it’s permanent strongest healing/second in the game that can’t be interrupted and doesn’t have to be cast. Plus being poisoned doesn’t hurt it much in comparison to other heals (it maintains a strong hp/s). Then this is also assuming everybody’s spamming their heal on cd just to compare to the warrior’s heal.

crossthread post
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqJmSpUbvES4dC1NTXJJTmJhd29wbmZycEpMWjVDS3c&usp=drive_web#gid=0

ok i was bored, here is math of healing power/base heals blabla, feel free to edit healing power number https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqJmSpUbvES4dC1NTXJJTmJhd29wbmZycEpMWjVDS3c&usp=drive_web#gid=0

Zanryu.3417:

Oblivion.8307:

Ashanor.5319:

ahuba.6430:

if you havent played in 2 months how the hell can you know what you are talking about. its easy to see that when you talk about a defensive amulet since lb/hammer warriors go zerker amulet. and i dare you to find me a testimony of a recognized high tier player saying warriors are fine.
and its funny because you’re part of the “low rank” you are talking about.

I’m part of the low rank? How do you figure? I was like 95% or higher in team queue when queuing only solo. As for solo queue, I gave up shortly after it was implemented because I kept getting grouped with bad players (I see better players in hotjoin). lol

Bet you $20.00 Defektive would tell you Warrior is fine, but it seems most of the good teams have quit, likely more due to condition spam than what you would have people believe.

Hi, I duo queued to rank 200-220(euteamqboard) when first free trial period was out. I’m currently rank 2 on eu teamqueue (could play 1 game and get rank one if i wanted), Have peaked @ 1 on EU Teamqueue, 8 on EU soloqueue, 1 on NA soloqueue and 118th on NA teamqueue. With these credentials being said, I think warriors are op. Good day.

Credentials are worthless if you can’t post a solid argument. WHY do you think they’re OP?

I posted credentials as this guy thought they were important, it’s 9am and I haven’t slept. Maybe I should do something with math sometime today. Could be fun. But right now I’d say the only class with a comparable heal was probably the engineer in terms of healing amount with lowest healing power.

Ashanor.5319:

ahuba.6430:

if you havent played in 2 months how the hell can you know what you are talking about. its easy to see that when you talk about a defensive amulet since lb/hammer warriors go zerker amulet. and i dare you to find me a testimony of a recognized high tier player saying warriors are fine.
and its funny because you’re part of the “low rank” you are talking about.

I’m part of the low rank? How do you figure? I was like 95% or higher in team queue when queuing only solo. As for solo queue, I gave up shortly after it was implemented because I kept getting grouped with bad players (I see better players in hotjoin). lol

Bet you $20.00 Defektive would tell you Warrior is fine, but it seems most of the good teams have quit, likely more due to condition spam than what you would have people believe.

Hi, I duo queued to rank 200-220(euteamqboard) when first free trial period was out. I’m currently rank 2 on eu teamqueue (could play 1 game and get rank one if i wanted), Have peaked @ 1 on EU Teamqueue, 8 on EU soloqueue, 1 on NA soloqueue and 118th on NA teamqueue. With these credentials being said, I think warriors are op. Good day.

u guys should try my 10/30/10/0/20 mlg zerker d/d ele build.

so whenever pvp players get rewarded with some pve content which they can sell or w/e we get pvers whining on the forums that they can’t get loot which the majority of pvpers have? i dont even. I’m fairly sure after the event they’re giving 2x chests per win or something.

Stop trying to make Azshene out to be the bad guy, he doesn’t even pvp anymore(like most of the gw2 population). Why should he be punished for not pvping? Blame the leaderboards, not the player. Only reason I play games is to go back to rank 1 because I can, kinda fun thinking of a new name each time. Tried soloqing other day I literally stopped playing midgame due to team setups + how kittened balance is, lol.

Well if you play fresh air it’s kill or be killed, if you play 30 water it’s eventually die while not putting out a lot of pressure.

people really just do it out of habit. Plus i’m unsure if it still functions in the same way but you used to be able to jump dodge mid immobilize (after immobilize condition had hit, before it had triggered the ‘immobilize’) and you’d still move/jump dodge.

‘Banner regen build’ using 4 banners, wtf are you, kittened? Blind stops cleansing ire? that’s why you take a longbow. Holy kitten people in this game are kittened. Especially people that don’t understand the concept of disengaging, line of sighting etc. ‘Let me take a free 12k damage while i summon my banners cos i got no stunbreaks etc.’ Plus most warriors use signet with lyssa runes. This guy. Holy kitten. This guy.

Inc another infraction for me.

it seems from evan’s post that mmr takes enemy players rating into account and divides it by the players there, since there were no players it was divided by 0.

Yep, you can make an engineer tanky enough to not die against a warrior, and also not be able to kill anything. Best counter.

Can’t somebody else just give you swiftness..? Warrior warhorn, guardian staff, ele staff, mesmer focus, switch in+out of warhorn(although combat can proc from locusts).

ranger shortbow is just very uninteresting, and feels braindead to play.

A stun breaker is inherently a defensive skill, you don’t usually think ‘oh kitten I need to break this stun while dealing damage’. You want to use offensive utilities, it’s your fault for not taking defensive cooldowns, you think people would take stun breakers if they didn’t break stuns? It’d make taking offensive abilities pretty much a no brainer too. ‘I get 10 stacks of might, apply 2(30sec) bleeds (2 to myself>can be transferred) all while breaking a stun?’ Now if you’d want this to be a stunbreaker it’d need to give stability to as to not interrupt the cast (eg well of power, stomp etc.) It’s not necessary and it’s only your fault for wanting to take offensive utilities instead of maybe sacrificing some offense for defense.

Ixl Super Ixl.7258:

The only Good players who are in alpha are TP and they don’t even play the game anymore so at the moment its pretty much all wvw/pve players helping balance the game…

im not in any alpha, don’t know where you got that information from.

universal = pve

That’s kinda the reason why people run longbow (guaranteed condi cleanse on f1, plus longbow’s pretty good in general – can’t be kited). Warriors should be punished for missing f1 abilities however. (depletion of adrenaline/no cleansing ire proc would be my preferred choice)

I haven’t seen anybody use a rabid build, and I can only assume it’s awful due to testing around with rampagers/crit procs. Carrion’s okay, I used it in the PAX qualifier, mainly about the teamfighting, plus it has pretty good 1v1 potential. Shamans you can also run 10 points in beastmaster for reduced cdr on pet f2s which is fairly effective with spiders/wolf/drakehound especially. Overall now however spirit ranger isn’t too effective at home bunkering, its strengths (ranger strength in general) was being able to 1v1 while being sustain/tanky. Nowadays you might aswell run a warrior in all honesty, spirit res being the only reason imo that spirit rangers are ran anymore.

Oh.. Awkward, haha.

flow.6043:

Oblivion.8307:

you should really use death shroud 2 a lot more judging from the 5v1 clip.

Ha.. when I watched your stream live a couple of weeks ago, I also noticed that you rarely ever use Dark Path.

I don’t think I’ve streamed in over a month o.o Regardless, it was a really good clip anyhow! It’s probably more a playstyle preference too I guess since I ran with geomancy.

you should really use death shroud 2 a lot more judging from the 5v1 clip.

I kinda skimmed over this, however as Bhawb’s stated making this into a water field not only benefits the necromancer but his teammates. The reason engineer water fields aren’t commonly blasted into(and can only really be blasted into themselves, at the cost of reducing their own sustain if they blow up their healing turret) is because they last a second(why’d you think healing springs uptime got reduced?)

Lets theorycraft a scenario here with your typical guardian mid bunker and a necromancer running a spec similar to this – http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNBIhZaESrUPbTUjfPBIpI6nneQ+3jTpwc2B-TsAgzCmIMSZkzIjRSjsGN+Y9xsBA

Regen is ~ 314/second
Well of Blood is ~ 741/second

So basically, that’s 1055 healed per second over the course of 10 seconds just by regeneration ticks and well of blood.
Lets say the blast finisher from bone minions/guardian hammer #2 is around 1.5k each, you can fit 2 of each of these in every well of blood, this is 6k healing on average adding around 600/second.

So we’ve got 10 seconds of time where there’s being 1655/second healed for 10 seconds, or ~16500. Add in that the necromancer is gaining a Base heal of ~6700.

Over 10 seconds the necromancer will heal in total for 23,200 with his team mates healing for 16,500 just with a combination of 2 players and spamming dodge rolls with mark of blood/casting mark of blood. You can do this theoretically 1.875 times per minute with the wells recharge trait (just the well/blast finisher regen).

Now it’s 5am, and my math may be completely awful but i’ve calculated an average of ~420/second regen per second averaged over a minute from well of blood/water blast finishers.

You add in the 314/second regenerated from spamming mark of bloods through dodges and staff #2 and you’ve got yourself an average of ~714/second over a minute (42840/minute) healed just through a necromancer using his own blast finishers with well of blood plus a guardian spamming hammer #2. The support is just insane, not to mention other teammates can leap/blast through this finisher themselves.

We deduct the water field component and do some awful 5am math and see what we find.

Regen is ~ 314/second
Well of Blood is ~ 741/second

Well of Blood averaged over a minute is ~231.

On average this time we’re getting 545 healed/second over a minute (32700 overall).

Basically, if you added water fields through just these 2 simple blast finishers (bone minion/hammer #2) you’d add 31% more healing.

Ofcourse this is all under perfect testing conditions, and my math is probably horrible. But the potential is there and if changed to a water field will most likely be exploited. This isn’t factoring in dagger siphoning, guardian’s virtue of resolve etc. I dunno, water field would just make the skill a no brainer to take, it’s a very niche heal that can be potentially insane without the water fields in terms of team support/sustain. I hope this post made sense, hopefully it did.

don’t expect to change the game with your new found power.

cymerdown.4103:

Honestly, the premise behind this topic is pretty offensive and ignorant. It’s fine to not like the direction of balance taken, but to say that 90% of the player base should be ignored is pretentious and also downright wrong. It’s perfectly reasonable to aim for good game balance at ALL skill levels, not just top tier. If there are specs that are oppressively strong at a low skill level (a noob can easily pick it up and crush other noobs with it), then that should be noted and addressed by the devs simply because that spec will discourage new pvpers from learning the game. A perfect example is the old 100b spec before the quickness nerf. That build was a huge problem for new players and extremely easy to play, so it was turning off lots of people from pvp, even though it wasn’t considered great in top tier play.

Everyone should give their own feedback, and then the devs can decide which suggestions are good and which are bad, keeping in mind all skill levels, not just balance at the top 1% (which is still important and has its own requirements). Also, the whole thing is kinda silly in that the gist of the thread is, “Yo devs, you need to listen more to skilled guys like me! Not going to make any suggestions here, though, but I will at some point in the future in a video. But when I do, listen! Other guys listen to me all the time, like <name bomb> because I’m really really good, I promise! Did I mention I’m good? No suggestions though.”

i love you ken, you make the best posts.

no thx then i’d lose my pro af’ked rank 1

I may have been misunderstood with my first post, the devs don’t listen to any players really, not just the top players. Having the game balanced at only a ‘top’ level is stupid, there needs to be balance throughout the different skill levels. I remember there was a kitten on the first state of the game who claimed that only top players should have a hand in balancing the game, that’s stupid. Realistically it feels like arenanet just makes their own changes without feedback really from anybody.

And for what it’s worth, the reason people didn’t see warriors at the pax qualification event is because teams had already decided on their team comps, there was no time to really divulge into changing your team composition to having a warrior in. It doesn’t take a genius to recognize passive regen + berserker stance/stability/cc is going to be strong.

PizzaSHARK.2741:

Knote.2904:

That’s it, none of that changes how I play, it just adds a few more numbers to everything I was already doing previously, that’s where I feel the game could really use some improvement on.

My warrior plays pretty differently equipped with a shield instead of a warhorn, or a greatsword instead of a longbow. I haven’t tried Mesmer, and based on my experiences with them in WvW, I don’t think I’d mind too terribly much if they were “accidentally” deleted from the game and the person who came up with the illusion idea “accidentally” locked in a cupboard for a week.

The risk of having traits considerably alter the functionality of a skill is that it’s no longer simply adding something to the skill, but changing it completely. The closest I’d feel comfortable with would be like Quick Breathing, which causes Warhorn skills to convert a condition to a boon; it encourages more strategic use of the horn skills while not necessarily changing the way they’re used.

Traited they’re on 12/16 second cooldowns, they’re fairly spammable really. #Strategy

hooma.9642:

Oblivion.8307:

the ‘top players’ do offer ideas/suggestions, but after a while it just feels pointless doing so.

mmh if top players means helseth or in this example sensotix. i can understand why. do u think anet has nothing to do to browse to every persons twitch or youtubeaccount, who thinks they are “top” and dont post in the forum or get banned for rude behaviour? if the actual state of the game leads to that such ppl leave im glad.

You’d be surprised at how many times developers are in pvp twitch streams, however most of the people who were in the ‘top’ or w/e of the game that offered suggestions have probably already quit, several months ago. You headbutt a wall enough and you eventually just give up.

the ‘top players’ do offer ideas/suggestions, but after a while it just feels pointless doing so.

just another 3-4 months til next patch guys, it’s so close, you’ll pull through!

i guess, spvp is 0% anyways, i’m unsure of wvw etiquette.

duels are about improving yourself, starting with 0% life force forces you to actually realize how to gain life force and apply that to real combat situations. too many people take the kitten/duel thing too seriously. personally i find duels a great way to learn your own class, and the opponents class. plus starting at 0% makes me feel more accomplished i guess when beating people, although beating people on necro is as easy as throwing your keyboard at a wall ever since that june patch (excluding warriors, spvp pov) :p

duels start with 0% whenever i dueled ppl, idk.

every class is op, just some are more op than others.

The fact you have to lose damage to prolong your death just means the warriors sustain gets more and more effective as you’re losing damage.

lol @ zone in denial, warrior’s op bro get over it.

oh yeah the engineer counters of blind/chill/cc etc, oh wait nvm berserker stance and stability. teldo was actually gonna reroll to warrior before we decided to call it lol.