Guild Wars 2

Substance E.4852:

Obtena.7952:

SteepledHat.1345:

MashMash.1645:

Why do raiders get this perk?

The answer to this question is every issue in HoT.

The answer to this is in every game ever: There is a something you have to do to get the reward to finishing that something. Maybe people are to accustomed being told that they are winners for just participating, but that’s not how life works or games for that matter. Raiders get this ‘perk’ simply because they have done what is necessary to get it.

Nah people are just accustomed to playing a game that didn’t heavily incorporate raids.

If this were a feature of the game at launch then your argument would hold water.

They still are … raids are not heavily incorporated into this game either. It’s not relevant if the feature was from launch or not. Explain to me why it matters if you think that’s true.

Astralporing.1957:

Obtena.7952:

That’s not why I dismissed the idea. There is little value in it. The complaint is that you have to DO something to ‘unlock’ XP being useful … in otherwords, people don’t want to do something to get something specific.

No. The complaint is that something general, something that all players had (but has been taken away) is now locked beyond something specific that Anet knew kitten well most people will never do (and they knew, because they designed it that way).

I don’t see the issue there. They reworked how players were rewarded for doing certain tasks. Games change and that change doesn’t seem unreasonable. They also made spirit shards drop from mobs, which IIRC they didn’t before either, so it’s not like Anet didn’t consider how the change would impact players.

What I said still stands … the complaint is that you have to do something to get the reward … complaining something changed is just stupid … things change in games all the time.

It also occured to me that it’s not just raiding that you need to unlock to get all your masteries, so it’s pretty nonsense to me that someone singled out Raiding masteries as THE ones blocking people from unlocking spirit shards with XP.

Not every weapon is good in every game mode. I find people quickly dismiss weapons that are superior in game modes they give little attention to. I believe this is the case with Ranger GS. It’s trash-killing awesomeness. Fly in with 3, smash with a 2, finish off with a 1, all recharging quickly for the next trash mob. Admittedly, I haven’t tried sword again since the last patch, but it had some undesirable effects for openworld play previously.

Maybe that’s not too impressive because people don’t give OW play much thought, dismissing it as trivial, but regardless, GS may have been designed with this purpose in mind. That’s not an unreasonable theory, because other weapons on other professions were similarly labeled as garbage, but excelled in that theatre as well. For instance, Guardian Mace.

Fay.2357:

Anet obviously balances classes based on what other classes have. How else would they balance? That’s…sorta the whole point of balancing.

They balance by the class concept and it’s because of that concept that the class suffers delivering DPS; it’s got nothing to do with other classes. It’s simply not possible to balance one class by comparing to all the others. That’s just ridiculous to think. Besides, if that’s actually the case, why do SO many threads like this exist in this forum and all the other professions? I mean, if you actually look at all the people claiming that all these classes aren’t balanced because of whatever other classes do, you’re only logical conclusions are:

1. Anet don’t or can’t balance that way because of the sheer volume of instances where these ‘between class’ imbalances exist; an insurmountable task perhaps

OR

2. All classes are all fairly close to being balanced properly (with the approach still misunderstood) because players are so clueless about how that process works, that everything appears imbalanced to them

Do you think that if Anet is balancing by comparing to other classes, that they are so kitten bad at it, that somehow Mesmer just got overlooked? All the other classes are completely awesome with each other? What game are you playing? Either case, you aren’t getting more DPS just because of thieves staff whatever … That’s silly.

I mean, believe what you want. I’m not wrong and it’s an easy thing to observe. Play without shattering, then play with. The difference is significant, even on trash mobs.

I like these threads. To think the latest expansion for a tired MMO has the clout to knock GW2 out … even though the existence of said tired MMO and all it’s expansions wasn’t enough to do that in the first place.

Go play legion … realize you’re paying a sub for the same content Blizzard has been feeding you for a decade, just with different names. Then remember what the appeal of GW2 was and why you left WOW to play it in the first place.

You don’t actually leave GW2 anyways … you’re not paying a sub to be here. Log in as many or as little as you want; Anet already got your cash once. Their model is pretty smart.

Fay.2357:

Obtena.7952:

DeceiverX.8361:

I’ve said it many a time.

Mesmer DPS is low because it has such innately high burst on shatters. Is it fair? Sort of, but that’s why chrono had to give support: high personal DPS would allow it to replace pretty much everything else considering the amount of support it provides (which is enough to mandate taking one).

If the mesmer wants a DPS option, it needs a specialization that removes its shatters. That’s up to the mesmer community to decide and deliberate on if they want it, but that’s what needs to happen to enable such high damage.

This is well said. Until I played with shattering, it was a slog to do anything DPS wise. It was just really slow.

1. Mesmer demands LOTS of attention and focus from the player to achieve the most DPS it can offer.
2. Conceptually, it is probably very diffcult to balance the damage offered between shattering and weapon skills, so playing non-shattering builds offer little in comparison.

Problem is that shatters are garbage dps compared to what everyone else has.

But that’s not actually a problem. If Anet balanced classes based on what other classes do or have, then it would be a problem. But they don’t, so it’s not. REGARDLESS of what kind of damage a shatter burst does, compared to anything else, my points are still true. Optimal DPS from Mesmer is highly intense and damage seems skewed heavily to shattering.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Obtena.7952:

DeceiverX.8361:

I’ve said it many a time.

Mesmer DPS is low because it has such innately high burst on shatters. Is it fair? Sort of, but that’s why chrono had to give support: high personal DPS would allow it to replace pretty much everything else considering the amount of support it provides (which is enough to mandate taking one).

If the mesmer wants a DPS option, it needs a specialization that removes its shatters. That’s up to the mesmer community to decide and deliberate on if they want it, but that’s what needs to happen to enable such high damage.

This is well said. Until I played with shattering, it was a slog to do anything DPS wise. It was just really slow.

1. Mesmer demands LOTS of attention and focus from the player to achieve the most DPS it can offer.
2. Conceptually, it is probably very diffcult to balance the damage offered between shattering and weapon skills, so playing non-shattering builds offer little in comparison.

Honestly, the best argument against this when it comes up.
Is to just point to the thief.

“Mesmer has such high burst with shatters”

And thief has always had backstab.
Yet it’s also always had:
1. Great support (Far better than Mesmer had for the longest time)
2. Unique support (Mesmer is now just another stat increaser, and reflects weren’t unique to mesmer (and are useless in 90% of situations now))
3. Great DPS

Oh, and an insanely strong stealth + movement mechanic that makes it extremely difficult to actually kill a thief.
You know.
That thing they nerfed on mesmers?

rolls eyes
I love how this community hasn’t changed at all.

Honestly, comparisons to other professions are the WORST arguments for anything. Why? because Mesmers aren’t thieves and game devs don’t balance classes with that kind of mentality; it’s a fool’s errand to try.

DeceiverX makes some VERY relevant statements … even if a great DPS Mesmer build existed, is nothing particularly special compared to other great DPS builds, but the utility from Chrono … very desirable. That’s an extremely hard thing for Anet to balance for.

DeceiverX.8361:

I’ve said it many a time.

Mesmer DPS is low because it has such innately high burst on shatters. Is it fair? Sort of, but that’s why chrono had to give support: high personal DPS would allow it to replace pretty much everything else considering the amount of support it provides (which is enough to mandate taking one).

If the mesmer wants a DPS option, it needs a specialization that removes its shatters. That’s up to the mesmer community to decide and deliberate on if they want it, but that’s what needs to happen to enable such high damage.

This is well said. Until I played with shattering, it was a slog to do anything DPS wise. It was just really slow.

1. Mesmer demands LOTS of attention and focus from the player to achieve the most DPS it can offer.
2. Conceptually, it is probably very diffcult to balance the damage offered between shattering and weapon skills, so playing non-shattering builds offer little in comparison.

Dante.1508:

Vayne.8563:

Turamarth.3248:

Or buy it with gold.

This. Despite the drama I’ve seen about it (and it’s not much drama) you can farm some gold, turn it into gems and buy the story that way. That’s perfectly reasonable. It’s not like you have to spend cash.

And as returning customers we all have that much gold to turn into 2000 gems right?

That’s disingenuous … you can get it EITHER way, a rare gesture of giving a player CHOICE for purchasing content on the part of a game developer. It’s very generous as well … I’m pretty sure Anet can’t pay their hydro bill with gems converted from ingame gold. It’s in fact, a very inclusive approach to appeal to a wide range of demographics.

If a player can’t do either option … well, I suggest they re-evaluate their real life priorities.

SteepledHat.1345:

MashMash.1645:

Why do raiders get this perk?

The answer to this question is every issue in HoT.

The answer to this is in every game ever: There is a something you have to do to get the reward to finishing that something. Maybe people are to accustomed being told that they are winners for just participating, but that’s not how life works or games for that matter. Raiders get this ‘perk’ simply because they have done what is necessary to get it.

Menadena.7482:

Danikat.8537:

I don’t understand why this is a problem.

I haven’t maxed all of my masteries yet, therefore I don’t want my XP to go on spirit shards (which I already have far more than enough of and can get from other places) – I want it to go on finishing my masteries.

I don’t feel like a second class citizen or like I’m being discriminated against. I feel like I still have an actual use for my XP, instead of it being dumped into a ‘consolation prize’ which is what will happen if I ever finish them all. (Which seems unlikely now they’re adding new ones.)

The problem is you used to get something as an 80 when you gathered one level’s worth of XP. Now they are back to that ….. but ONLY if you have maxed out the masteries. You might not need certain masteries, you might have trouble getting mastery points, whatever. The point is now some people are getting spirit shards (solving the ‘XP goes poof’ problem for them) but other people are not. Typically the people without maxed masteries are casuals.

See, the offensive part of this is that it’s not a problem that a person doesn’t get something because they haven’t completed something they need to do to get it. There is no reward for getting to almost done. Some people have all been fooled by education systems into thinking participation is worth rewarding. Real World is going to show you something else.

Palador.2170:

Seera.5916:

While I disagree with Obtena on whether or not the spirit shards should be able to be earned before completing all mastery tracks, Obtena is right in saying that they can’t please everyone.

There will always be some content that one person will love but another person will hate.

What I’m disagreeing with is Obtena’s automatic dismissal of the idea simply because it’s being made in an attempt to open things up to everyone.

Obtena.7952:

Seriously, says the gaming industry. What game accommodates every player that wants something … none. It’s impossible to do.

Impossible to do doesn’t mean it’s not a goal worth working towards within reason. Nobody will ever make the “perfect” game, but every game developer tries to get as close as they can. Suggestions shouldn’t be dismissed just because they won’t be perfect.

That’s not why I dismissed the idea. There is little value in it. The complaint is that you have to DO something to ‘unlock’ XP being useful … in otherwords, people don’t want to do something to get something specific. I find that line of thinking … deplorable for any game. This isn’t choose your own adventure. It’s not a negotiation where you decide what you’re willing to do to get the things you want. it’s not ‘locked’ by anything but a person’s willingness to get something done.

Palador.2170:

Obtena.7952:

Never will the game accommodate every player and their lifestyle. Not having time to do something is never a reason to change it so that every player can get everything they want.

Says who?

Seriously, says who? You?

“Never” is a very strong word, and for a game that’s supposed to be played for fun, it’s a bit out of place here. It’s worth it for the devs to take a moment and ask “What do we lose and gain if we put in a more casual way to do this?” Sometimes it’s not going to be worth it, but “never”?

Given that the new zone is in many ways the fallout of the raids, I’d say they could put in a purchased Raid Mastery unlock, paid for with zone currency. Then, add in a mastery track that, each time it’s completed, unlocks an extra mastery point. (Actually, two tracks. One for HoT, one for CT.) That way, even casual players can slowly but surely get all of the mastery tracks filled in over time, but the more hardcore players are able to skip over that grind (because they’ve done other kinds of grind instead.)

Seriously, says the gaming industry. What game accommodates every player that wants something … none. It’s impossible to do.

Muusic.2967:

Obtena.7952:

That’s not a problem though … I believe that’s the intent. If you want that XP to matter, you need to actively get the mastery points. It’s a way for Anet to encourage players to experience the game. If some XP is wasted in the process, so be it.

The problem with it is that for some of us it’s not that we don’t WANT go get the masteries, it’s a matter of not having the time to spend hours and hours building up obscene AR to get the fractal masteries or maybe we don’t have quite the special clique of friends to drag us through Raids and teach them to us. In my case I have been trying to finish the Aetherblade diving for my last point forever but due to the terrain at the top where you jump from it’s a completely blind jump.

That’s ALSO not a problem. Never will the game accommodate every player and their lifestyle. Not having time to do something is never a reason to change it so that every player can get everything they want.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Obtena.7952:

We would like lots of things … that’s not how game design works though. There are lots of things in games that people can’t do as well; that doesn’t mean Anet should change it to accommodate those people. Having lots of XP earning stuff that does nothing is not a problem. I have lots of boosters I don’t need, etc …

Flawed argumentation. This is merely a suggestion for the developers to change to accommodate the system to incorporate many different types of players, especially common in an MMO, rather than the set that has defeated one raid boss.

tl;dr: Just because developers can’t do all suggestions doesn’t make it a bad suggestion.

I don’t see how that’s flawed .. .it’s exactly how it works. Suggesting things is much different than “I want this”.

The quote I provided IN THIS THREAD wasn’t from launch .. it was from last week.

Ryou.2398:

Now back to guardians they have plenty of mobility options, the ele only gets a few as well so are you going to say anet saids they where meant to be more mobile in combat when they nearly have the same amount of in combat mobile options?

‘Plenty" … no one could discuss that even if they wanted to; it’s so vague and meaningless. I have no idea where you are going with your comparisons to Ele and Mesmers or how you arrived at the conclusions you made … you just say it like it’s truth.

I will just stick to my previous three points.

1. Guardian are designed to be less mobile; Anet told us so,. more than once. (I have posted one of these quotes in this very thread … in a reply to one of YOUR posts already .. .seems like proof is irrelevant to you anyways, even if it does exist)
2. Even though Guardians have ‘plenty’ of mobility options (according to you, whatever that means), this does not contradict Anet’s intention that Guardian have low mobility
3. I don’t think it’s a stretch that the way they have accomplished this is to deny the class the 25% RS buff

I can’t see anything you have said in your post that disputes any of those points. I will leave it at that.

There is nothing confusing: Playing a Guardian does not allow a person to determine how Mesmer mobility compares to Guardian mobility, or any other class for that matter. Anet told us Guardians are intentionally designed to have lower mobility. Those are not disputable facts.

If you know what I am trying to say, then why are you telling me I don’t make sense? Either you get it … or you don’t. Let’s stick to the topic here.

Ryou.2398:

Guardians are not designed to be less mobile in combat they have plenty of mobile options.

1. They are designed to be less mobile; Anet told us so. This is a relative comparison.
2. Even though Guardians HAVE some mobility options, this does not contradict Anet’s intention that Guardian have low mobility (You are taking an absolute observation and making a relative conclusion from it … bad bad)
3. I don’t think it’s a stretch that the way they have accomplished this is to deny the class the 25% RS buff.

I don’t know … maybe you don’t associate speed with mobility; I think it is because it’s related to how your character moves … mobility. I really don’t get what your intention is in this thread .. similar to other threads I’ve seen you post in. I guess you think Guardians are fine where they are at because they have plenty of mobility options?

Ganathar.4956:

Obtena.7952:

Glacial.9516:

As Sartharina said, the problem is when you have more than enough exp for the Masteries, but not enough Mastery Points to acquire them. At that point your exp goes nowhere and is wasted until you are able to get enough mastery points to open up new masteries or you finish all of them.

That’s not a problem though … I believe that’s the intent. If you want that XP to matter, you need to actively get the mastery points. It’s a way for Anet to encourage players to experience the game. If some XP is wasted in the process, so be it.

Except for the fact that it also requires raiding, an activity that the very devs stated they developed as challenging group content for a minority of the player-base. I do not believe that this is intentional. Anet has made plenty of oversights before.

Mastery points require Raiding? Is that what you are saying?

Sartharina.3542:

Obtena.7952:

Glacial.9516:

As Sartharina said, the problem is when you have more than enough exp for the Masteries, but not enough Mastery Points to acquire them. At that point your exp goes nowhere and is wasted until you are able to get enough mastery points to open up new masteries or you finish all of them.

That’s not a problem though … I believe that’s the intent. If you want that XP to matter, you need to actively get the mastery points.

In the meantime, I’d like to be able to earn Spirit Shards with XP. Because one of my HoT mastery tracks is locked behind a Raid that I tried and cannot beat a boss in to unlock. So now I have a lot of XP-earning stuff that does nothing at all.

We would like lots of things … that’s not how game design works though. There are lots of things in games that people can’t do as well; that doesn’t mean Anet should change it to accommodate those people. Having lots of XP earning stuff that does nothing is not a problem. I have lots of boosters I don’t need, etc …

Ryou.2398:

Obtena.7952:

Ryou.2398:

mrauls.6519:

Ryou.2398:

Ghotistyx.6942:

It doesn’t even have to be something like that. Rangers can have a longbow and 25% increased run speed. However, Rangers aren’t Guardians. Guardians are designed to be less mobile, but powerful team fighters. You’re defined just as much by what you do well as what you cannot do well.

Guardians are not designed to be less mobile in combat they have plenty of mobile options.

Yes they are designed to be less mobile… Devs have said it time and time again… Look at the pic in my signature.

Giving us 25% movement speed as a trait or innate function would be beast

It doesnt matter they are more mobile in combat then mesmers so regardless of what you claim they said that simply isnt the case, do you even play guardian?

This logic fails you … (even if) Guardians are more mobile than Mesmer, they are indeed designed to be less mobile, generally, than other classes and I believe Anet has hit that target, based on playing and watching the QQ on the forums.

I’m also certain that someone playing Guardian or not has little to do with if they know how Mesmer mobility compares to Guardian. I’ve thousands of hours on Guardian … I got no clue if Mesmer is more or less mobile than Guardian. Why would I or anyone know this based on how much they have played Guardian? There is no correlation there.

I actually do play a mesmer so nice try dude, also your not making any sense my point is guardian is clearly designed to be mobile in combat, just because other classes have disengage tools doesnt mean the guardian isnt mobile in combat.

I didn’t say you don’t play a mesmer, I said it was nonsense to accuse someone of not knowing what a mesmer’s mobility is compared to a Guardian based playing a Guardian. I also didn’t claim that Guardians aren’t designed for mobility because other classes have disengage tools. I said Anet has intentionally designed Guardians with less mobility than other classes. It would be appreciated that if you want to have a discussion with people, you don’t make up things they said or try to read between the lines. What I said still stands.

Glacial.9516:

As Sartharina said, the problem is when you have more than enough exp for the Masteries, but not enough Mastery Points to acquire them. At that point your exp goes nowhere and is wasted until you are able to get enough mastery points to open up new masteries or you finish all of them.

That’s not a problem though … I believe that’s the intent. If you want that XP to matter, you need to actively get the mastery points. It’s a way for Anet to encourage players to experience the game. If some XP is wasted in the process, so be it.

Ryou.2398:

mrauls.6519:

Ryou.2398:

Ghotistyx.6942:

It doesn’t even have to be something like that. Rangers can have a longbow and 25% increased run speed. However, Rangers aren’t Guardians. Guardians are designed to be less mobile, but powerful team fighters. You’re defined just as much by what you do well as what you cannot do well.

Guardians are not designed to be less mobile in combat they have plenty of mobile options.

Yes they are designed to be less mobile… Devs have said it time and time again… Look at the pic in my signature.

Giving us 25% movement speed as a trait or innate function would be beast

It doesnt matter they are more mobile in combat then mesmers so regardless of what you claim they said that simply isnt the case, do you even play guardian?

This logic fails you … (even if) Guardians are more mobile than Mesmer, they are indeed designed to be less mobile, generally, than other classes and I believe Anet has hit that target, based on playing and watching the QQ on the forums.

I’m also certain that someone playing Guardian or not has little to do with if they know how Mesmer mobility compares to Guardian. I’ve thousands of hours on Guardian … I got no clue if Mesmer is more or less mobile than Guardian. Why would I or anyone know this based on how much they have played Guardian? There is no correlation there.

OH, I thought you wanted a Necro Only build. Frankly, I don’t like mixing Reaper into this build; it’s already optimized with the minions and condition damage. Adding reaper would diminish it’s focus for me. I don’t like the temporary nature of Rise in an MM build; I feel the traits benefit permanent minions better. That being said, I have seen people promote ‘MM condi’ Reaper builds, but I like mine. It’s set and forget pretty much.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBLRhG2IDN0Ujd1gbNwejjghaOD7w6GTgAICknQKUCA-ThTAQBU4ACcNlBBUfgYUilOzTR7JAaEwgSwZoBRanAgXs/ohQBHIAAcQAio6PMRphAgaA-e

I swap Vipers and Sinisters armor/weapons interchangeably on this … pretty straight forward Necro MM condi build. You can solo a few of the harder HP’s with this one too. Might be something you’re looking for.

Biklen.5490:

Burtnik.5218:

Biklen.5490:

Crowley.8761:

One mill damage in sPvP is terrible. Someone with 1/10 of that is potentially more useful than you because high damage numbers simply mean that either the other team ignored you or you constantly went into fights you couldn’t win – you fail at killing people = bad pvp

This is by far the dumbest comment i have ever read on this thread. Congrats…

Tbh hes kind of right. You wont have tons of damage if you nuke people in seconds, but when you fight them forever your damage in log rises but.. you dont bring many kills. A lot of us had over 1 mil damage in S1 bunker meta and how often people were dying? Think about it. If you played moba you would understand it.

There are people who fight on lane whole time rising their damage dealt over time and then theres also this guy who comes in, 100-0 you and goes off and happen to have less damage at the end of a game than people who been fighting whole time with no kills.

Look at my picture. Vulcan has 30k damage who happen to almost double me in damage (im Ratatoskr) yet he has just one kill. Thats cause he was poking people whole game but coulndt kill them on his own while i have been deleting them, waiting for proper time to nuke them down. Who had more of an impact in this game? Me.
Damage is not everything and in fact nothing if you cant kill anyone.

PvP 101…You have sustain DPS and you have people that pick people off…If you don’t have either you will loose the fights. NEXT TIME I will post a video with 100k damage and 25kills and the next diss will be "BIK THEY ARE ALL UP LVLS THEY ARE SO BAD I CAN KILL THEM WITH SHIELD BASH….

There is no winning in forums with people that are only pleased when your complaining about buffs and nerfs….You want people to come here and express the sadness and not talk about the great stuff the class has to offer.

For some people, PVP is ONLY about killing someone. Forest for the trees kind of thing. They have little concept of teamwork or organization needed to win. PVP isn’t just a frequent, large number of 1 vs. 1 fights.

Mez Koo.9510:

Gaile Gray.6029:

As many have stated, the addition of new ways to get Mastery Points is a good thing! It’s sort of like adding new dishes to a buffet: you can make a choice from an expending menu of options.

I am not maxed on MPs for either HoT or CT. Hey, I’ve been busy! As a daily player, I warmly welcome more ways for me to get those points.

But there is no way to use the dozens of extra points that can be gained casually.

So what?

Ryou.2398:

Obtena.7952:

Ryou.2398:

Obtena.7952:

Ryou.2398:

Certain classes like ele get speed while being attuned or from a trait why cant we have it for guards?

Oh I know this one … Class Concept?

No just no, nearly every class has ways of increasing speed without taking a utility slot or having to use a utility that doesnt do much beyond running speed so dont give me this class concept nonsense.

I made a joke the other day … Why didn’t Guardians get a 25% movement buff? Because Anet said it didn’t fit the class concept. OK, I guess it’s not a very good joke. Maybe you just don’t want to believe it’s true, I don’t know but I don’t know how many more ways Anet can say it … or demonstrate it’s the case. /shrug

I apologize, I feel like a jerk. But something occured to me maybe its because in modes like wvw having a better running speed might make it a little op if they use bow? I dont know its the only thing I can think of.

IMO, it wouldn’t be OP’ed for Guardian to get a 25% movement buff at all … it astounds me that somehow, Guardian is the ONLY class concept to not have it; are no other professions in this game intended to be frontline, team-based fighters as well Anet? Regardless, we don’t have it and it doesn’t seem based on the most recent questions that we are getting it anytime soon, if at all. I would like to get it myself but I get the class has this specific deficiency to enforce the ‘role’ Anet has in mind for it.

It’s the first and I doubt it will be the last either .. it’s becoming more common actually. Better get used to it if anything.

Coldtart.4785:

Diovid.9506:

So… just don’t do it?

Game would’ve died years ago if people did that.

No not really, because believe it or not, some people play the game cause it’s fun, not because they are trying to get a specific item. The best part is that those people know that eventually they get nice stuff just from playing. Awesome right?

Why should Anet provide this if someone is already doing a superior job doing it for them? That’s a completely sensible solution if you ask me.

Ryou.2398:

Obtena.7952:

Ryou.2398:

Certain classes like ele get speed while being attuned or from a trait why cant we have it for guards?

Oh I know this one … Class Concept?

No just no, nearly every class has ways of increasing speed without taking a utility slot or having to use a utility that doesnt do much beyond running speed so dont give me this class concept nonsense.

I made a joke the other day … Why didn’t Guardians get a 25% movement buff? Because Anet said it didn’t fit the class concept. OK, I guess it’s not a very good joke. Maybe you just don’t want to believe it’s true, I don’t know but I don’t know how many more ways Anet can say it … or demonstrate it’s the case. /shrug

Ryou.2398:

Certain classes like ele get speed while being attuned or from a trait why cant we have it for guards?

Oh I know this one … Class Concept?

Sounds to me like you were reading a rather negatively biased review … The expansion is no more a paywall than anything else in the world. You buy it, you get access to the content. Meta events are intended to be done with a team.

Is there any sense in using passive? I think the biggest benefit to to the Permeating Wrath change is that it offers more choices in the Master trait; the GM trait itself only continues to benefit passive VOJ … which is clearly outclassed by using it actively because of Radiance Minors and DH traits.

What kind of build can you imagine using a passive VOJ? or even a situation where passive VOJ is better than active? I think this virtue is still one where the passive and active benefits are the least balanced.

Axe is part of those ‘midrange’ group of weapons in the game that isn’t particularly good or bad that seems to be intended to fill a gap between melee and ranged damage … that never existed. It’s not just the Axe on necro that suffers this.

I’m still pleased they still put some attention to improving the axe, despite this conceptual faux pas that midrange weapons are in this game. I do agree that it would be nice for Axe to be converts to long or melee with some appropriate changes, but I would be concerned making it melee would crowd that space too much.

What would a melee axe do that Dagger and GS doesn’t already?

Ryou.2398:

Arcaedus.7290:

Obtena.7952:

I can only tell you that Anet thinks it is because they have told us we are in a good place. I can only suspect that means that all the other classes need more work to achieve whatever targets Anet has for those classes than Guardian does.

Maybe people are delusional but … that’s what matters here. Balance is relative and there are no set rules for fairness or equality between classes, as nice as that might be. Anet sets those targets, Anet decides what work and what path to take on their timetable to achieve them.

I’m pretty sure ANet hasn’t said guardians are in a good place since before the trait overhaul in June of 2015. It just seems to be an implied statement because 1. We don’t ever seem to get any large worthwhile changes that are frequently requested. Last one I can remember is a small cd reduction to shield skills when HoT shipped. 2. Other classes do.

There is no point in debating with him he either likes to argue even if he agrees or he just defends every single decision the game company makes. and he doesnt understand mmorpgs ive played many over the years before wow and seen many forms of class balance.

… yet we get another patch where balancing according to the profession concept is employed, AGAIN, inline with how I think balance is done. Tell me what I don’t understand again please?

I have yet to see a logical approach to suggesting we get 25% movement speed related to the class concept. There are many reasons for that. Perhaps Anet will change their mind; I think it’s actually ridiculous that our concept is the ONLY one that doesn’t access 25% RS through the class toolset. That’s still not enough to make a case for getting it though. If you understand how class concept balance works (which is clearly what Anet is doing), then you know why that it true. Also, from an AMA with Dulfy:

What do you think of the idea of having PvP only include “DPS” builds? Also, where do you see Guardian in the future of PvP?

There has been debate here on the subject but it’s more along the line of what are ways we can speed up the game.
As for guardian I’ve always liked the feel of less mobility but high effectiveness that scales more with more people making them strong group fighters but I think with a lot of the changes the guardian’s ability to sustain compared to other professions has been a major issue causing them to be less effective and something we need to work on but it can come into conflict with speeding the game up so it’s a bit tricky.

So at least in PVP, they know they are hitting a wall with Guardian concept and the direction they want the game to go.

The nerf to Rise doesn’t nerf MM builds because it doesn’t make sense for MM builds to rely heavily on Rise in the first place. I think the best MM builds wouldn’t even use Rise. MM builds are always going to take advantage of permanent minions better than temporary ones.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Weren’t you the one who said symbols on the sword/scepter would be overpowered and that you doubt ANet would implement it?

I don’t remember in all honesty. Frankly, I always thought it was stupid that Scepter didn’t have a symbol, even though it had an effect that acted just like one and I never thought sword was that good for the class without more ‘Guardian-like’ effects on it. If I did say that, I would love to know the context.

PS .. I found a thread where there was a discussion about making symbols mobile to your character over 3 years ago. I will keep looking though.

Found this though: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Please-Buff-Swords/first#post1329901

So, since that’s 3 years ago, I would say I never considered a symbol on sword to be OPed. Probably not the Scepter either. If you’re really keen, you can look through my post history.

Mea.5491:

Hesacon.8735:

As a base power necro who runs axe/focus, the changes are nice to life blast, ghastly claws, and spinal shivers. But I might be the only one in the game who is going to see those as a practical boost.

-high five- I also thought I was the only one.

Be assured, there are people that don’t just run the most popular builds that are pretty excited about these changes.

Fashion Mage.3712:

These are probably some of the best changes the guardian has ever gotten; ANet really surprised me. Setting my hopes to the lowest certainly made this patch all the more delicious~

That’s the spirit! Expecting nothing and getting something … feels pretty good. I’m pretty eager to get a sword build going.

Aza.2105:

Obtena.7952:

It’s not me you disagree with, it’s Anet; they established the class is in a good place, not me. The lack of critical thinking is the correlation maked by cherrypicking a few under performing skills and observing there are unhappy players and concluding the class doesn’t hit Anet’s desired performance target based on those things.

On the other hand, it’s not hard to see that even though there are some under performing skills and unhappy people, the class can skill hit whatever performance targets Anet may have. Furthermore, there are other classes that people would consider quite good, and those classes also have some under performing skills and unhappy people. In conclusion, some under performing skills and unhappy people should not make anyone that has applied critical thinking to the topic to conclude Guardians don’t meet Anet’s targets or that those two things are necessarily significant factors to a classes ability make those targets.

Yea but you aren’t a mouth for anet, so why take the stance like you understand exactly what the developers are thinking?

I don’t know what they are thinking, but I do know how they are thinking.

You know what, every patch, including this one only convinces me more and more than I’m not too far off about my theory on how class balance happens .. what is everyone else waiting for? Still clinging to ideas that balance is determined by assessments between classes? Continue to be disappointed EVERY patch then.

Symbols on sword and scepter … FINALLY. Those weapons were deficient as Guardian weapons from day 1 and Anet knew it.

Well, I will leave that to a comprehension issue then. I don’t think I could be more clear. I’m not here to get a whole bunch of people to agree with me but that certainly doesn’t make my opinion not make sense. In fact, I think it’s pretty simple; the class concept determines balance focus and the fact is that players aren’t as good at interpreting the class concept, the game mechanics and developer’s intent to make good suggestions for how things could change better than the actual developers can. That’s why I believe you don’t see a large number of player ideas implemented. Why do I think that? From watching game devs implement ‘balance’ in MMO’s for over 10 years; other MMO’s aren’t different.

Maybe if you didn’t sit around and incorrectly interpret my posts as ridiculous quips, you could understand it yourself.

Ryou.2398:

Obtena.7952:

Ryou.2398:

Obtena.7952:

Ryou.2398:

phokus.8934:

Ezrael.6859:

Obtena is just a PvE casual hero with tunnel vision.

He lacks the insight to comprehend other styles of game-play and a desire to perform in different game modes.

He just pipes along with everything is fine because he is quite happy with the 11111 hammer meta for his PvE slot. It fits his skill level.

I see him everywhere it seems like he defends everything over the smallest criticisms, id say tunnel vision is an understatement no one is assuming anything everyone here including me has played their guardians well enough to know the clear flaws in the class right now.

Just because a person plays Guardian well enough to know the flaws doesn’t mean they know the game and Anet well enough to suggest how to fix it. Most of the ideas we get from players are at best, significantly changing the concept of the class or skill; always a non-starter … the concept is everything. Tunnel vision is there because frankly, the classes aren’t that complex. GW2 is a pretty simple game for rather average people. That’s its success.

Probably a worthless anecdote to you people but I played burn Guardian in PVP WAY back .. .when everyone said it sucked. But the funny thing was that everyone I played against had no idea how to deal with it because it was new to them. Was it the best? No, but it didn’t have to be; I was rather surprised as my success rate.

The point is that you can’t really be very successful in PVP if you and everyone else play the same build because even the average PVPer won’t think “Oh there is a Guardian, what will he do?”, they will think “Oh, there is a medi trapper Guardian, I know EXACTLY what his tricks are” and they will counter you as best possible.

Where do I come in with tunnel vision? because Anet sets that expectation with all of us; they tell us we are in a good spot, so only through that can I think “well, this is pretty much what we have to work with”. Granted, that was a long time ago they said that, maybe they will come up with some great things, but why set yourself up for disappointment? I predict there will be 3-4 minor/cosmetic changes on Tuesday.

Just because you do not think they dont know the game or like their ideas does not make it true either, ive seen plenty of great ideas through here very reasonable in all class boards in fact people have been nothing but reasonable in the past 6 months when it comes to many builds, some are bad suggestions but for the most part have good ideas in them, here you go again with your I cannot handle anyone elses opinion.

I did not say there wasn’t some great ideas, I said most of those ideas aren’t inline with the concept of the class and won’t get implemented because of it. Oh and one other thing that makes me think I’m right: I don’t see Anet rushing to implement player ideas either. If what you say is true, that would be happening quite a bit, yet most patches we get a void of anything player-driven or even player-desired. No, I think if Anet is listening to players, it’s not for their suggestions on how to change skills, it’s something else.

So your trying to say player complaint has no influence on nerfs and classes not getting updated? LOL…

No, I didn’t say anything like that, but there is obviously no reason to explain to you for the third time what I am trying to say since it seems your more interesting in inventing my words for me. At least I won’t be the one disappointed by tomorrow’s patch.

Honestly, based on my own experience with other MMO’s, skills that need improvement or change are years in the making, sometimes they are never addressed. I have concluded that this is likely because it’s folly to attempt to make every class balanced according to every other by continuous making adjustments to skills.

I do want to make sure I was clear; there is value, just not very much IMO. You can change a skill, make it good, then something happens, like an expansion or a meta shift or whatever … chasing meta is just not a good strategy and that’s most of the reason people use to justify whatever FOTM fix they are asking for.

cranos.5913:

Obtena.7952:

I don’t see Anet rushing to implement player ideas either. If what you say is true, that would be happening quite a bit, yet most patches we get a void of anything player-driven or even player-desired.

That’s not exactly true. Most of the DH nerfs were extremely player-driven and definitely desired by certain parts of the community. Problem with most of the buff suggestions it’s not a matter of just tweaking some numbers. Most proper guardian “fixes” or “buffs” means redesigning skills or rearranging traits. Something that requires quite a bit of dev time.

Now it’s only a question if anet actually sees it as enough of an issue to allocate the necessary resources to fixing it. My money is on that it’s not gonna happen. I honestly don’t see this class becoming relevant until the next elite spec.

I’m talking about suggestions for how to change skills, not if they should be changed or not. My apologies for not being more clear. Hence my very last sentence of the post I made. I do believe Anet does listen to players, but they don’t implement their ideas directly for how skills should be changed.

I don’t think that there is much value in putting resources into make things that don’t work well better; especially if there is alternatives; some people accuse me of tunnel vision; I’m just realistic. That’s probably my biggest disappointment with how Anet has proceeded with fixes in the past; just seems it’s never done well the first time and each need a few kicks at the can. The last attempt to buff spirit weapons was a good example of that. They just didn’t quite get them to the point where they find a place in people’s builds. They won’t get there unless Anet look at them at least one more, maybe two more times.

If YOU didn’t say sword skills were situational, you were definitely using the fact that others said it to support your argument, Shall I quote?

Ryou.2398:

If you go back there are tons of people saying the other moves are very situational and use aa most of the time.

I get your point; sword AA can be boring if that’s all you use out of the weapon skillset; the issue here is that this isn’t a problem with the sword itself. Generally, most weapons in this game are designed along those lines. The devs know this and that’s why we get more than AA for weapon skills. Fortunately for Rev sword, the other skills are NOT situational, so there are even more actions you can take to make it even less boring. Those skills are pretty much awesome in many situations, if not all the time (thanks to our friend Burtnik for pointing out how awesome sword is always). SO if sword is one of the more boring weapons, to me that’s a player issue. Hence, the question trying to bring you back into the discussion.

If you don’t want to use the other sword skills to solve ‘boring sword AA gameplay’, then it seems to me the only other option is that you are supporting the OP’s idea, which will cost you energy to access a similar amount of damage while making the other sword skills more appealing. I don’t know what else there is to talk about with you if you aren’t willing to say if you support the idea that basically trades energy for ‘less boring’ swordplay. I like to stay on topic … I think it’s a terrible idea because of the ‘not-situational’ nature of the other sword skills.

Ryou.2398:

Obtena.7952:

Ryou.2398:

phokus.8934:

Ezrael.6859:

Obtena is just a PvE casual hero with tunnel vision.

He lacks the insight to comprehend other styles of game-play and a desire to perform in different game modes.

He just pipes along with everything is fine because he is quite happy with the 11111 hammer meta for his PvE slot. It fits his skill level.

I see him everywhere it seems like he defends everything over the smallest criticisms, id say tunnel vision is an understatement no one is assuming anything everyone here including me has played their guardians well enough to know the clear flaws in the class right now.

Just because a person plays Guardian well enough to know the flaws doesn’t mean they know the game and Anet well enough to suggest how to fix it. Most of the ideas we get from players are at best, significantly changing the concept of the class or skill; always a non-starter … the concept is everything. Tunnel vision is there because frankly, the classes aren’t that complex. GW2 is a pretty simple game for rather average people. That’s its success.

Probably a worthless anecdote to you people but I played burn Guardian in PVP WAY back .. .when everyone said it sucked. But the funny thing was that everyone I played against had no idea how to deal with it because it was new to them. Was it the best? No, but it didn’t have to be; I was rather surprised as my success rate.

The point is that you can’t really be very successful in PVP if you and everyone else play the same build because even the average PVPer won’t think “Oh there is a Guardian, what will he do?”, they will think “Oh, there is a medi trapper Guardian, I know EXACTLY what his tricks are” and they will counter you as best possible.

Where do I come in with tunnel vision? because Anet sets that expectation with all of us; they tell us we are in a good spot, so only through that can I think “well, this is pretty much what we have to work with”. Granted, that was a long time ago they said that, maybe they will come up with some great things, but why set yourself up for disappointment? I predict there will be 3-4 minor/cosmetic changes on Tuesday.

Just because you do not think they dont know the game or like their ideas does not make it true either, ive seen plenty of great ideas through here very reasonable in all class boards in fact people have been nothing but reasonable in the past 6 months when it comes to many builds, some are bad suggestions but for the most part have good ideas in them, here you go again with your I cannot handle anyone elses opinion.

I did not say there wasn’t some great ideas, I said most of those ideas aren’t inline with the concept of the class and won’t get implemented because of it. Oh and one other thing that makes me think I’m right: I don’t see Anet rushing to implement player ideas either. If what you say is true, that would be happening quite a bit, yet most patches we get a void of anything player-driven or even player-desired. No, I think if Anet is listening to players, it’s not for their suggestions on how to change skills, it’s something else.

Ryou.2398:

phokus.8934:

Ezrael.6859:

Obtena is just a PvE casual hero with tunnel vision.

He lacks the insight to comprehend other styles of game-play and a desire to perform in different game modes.

He just pipes along with everything is fine because he is quite happy with the 11111 hammer meta for his PvE slot. It fits his skill level.

I see him everywhere it seems like he defends everything over the smallest criticisms, id say tunnel vision is an understatement no one is assuming anything everyone here including me has played their guardians well enough to know the clear flaws in the class right now.

Just because a person plays Guardian well enough to know the flaws doesn’t mean they know the game and Anet well enough to suggest how to fix it. Most of the ideas we get from players are at best, significantly changing the concept of the class or skill; always a non-starter … the concept is everything. Tunnel vision is there because frankly, the classes aren’t that complex. GW2 is a pretty simple game for rather average people. That’s its success.

Probably a worthless anecdote to you people but I played burn Guardian in PVP WAY back .. .when everyone said it sucked. But the funny thing was that everyone I played against had no idea how to deal with it because it was new to them. Was it the best? No, but it didn’t have to be; I was rather surprised as my success rate.

The point is that you can’t really be very successful in PVP if you and everyone else play the same build because even the average PVPer won’t think “Oh there is a Guardian, what will he do?”, they will think “Oh, there is a medi trapper Guardian, I know EXACTLY what his tricks are” and they will counter you as best possible.

Where do I come in with tunnel vision? because Anet sets that expectation with all of us; they tell us we are in a good spot, so only through that can I think “well, this is pretty much what we have to work with”. Granted, that was a long time ago they said that, maybe they will come up with some great things, but why set yourself up for disappointment? I predict there will be 3-4 minor/cosmetic changes on Tuesday.

Ryou.2398:

Obtena.7952:

I’m not defending using the same attack 80% of the time … don’t make up things I never said or try to read into something to make your case look good. if you don’t like the concept that most of your attacks are from AA, start looking for a new MMO … that’s just how the game works.

I am defending the notion that Sword is more than an only AA weapon and all other weapon skills are more than just situational.

See, the problem with the OP’s original complaint with Sword wasn’t sword lacks damage, yet he’s ONLY assessing damage to make his point … so the whole argument that Sword needs a ‘fix’ for not-lacking-damage things because, as he claims, Sword AA by itself is the highest damage rotation … is nonsense to begin with.

I mean, let’s not beat around the bush … it’s not that non-AA skills are bad on sword, it’s that AA packs the most damage. If there is a REALISTIC fix to that, it’s to nerf AA and distribute damage to other skills … because anyone asking for more damage or effects to make non-AA skills more attractive to use as a fix to ‘AA does too much damage’ problem is just dreaming!

I get the OP is doing that but the flip side is that he just made accessing SAME damage cost energy with his proposal, all for the goal of accomplishing what? Is better DPS distribution over all weapon skills REALLY a problem here that is worth paying more energy to achieve? Um, I think lots of Revenants would not agree with that.

Yes you kind of where, so im not making up anything.

I will ask you again .. do you think Revs should pay more energy to access the same DPS we have now? That’s what the OP is proposing. I don’t support that (apparently because my IQ is not high) but it sounds like you do since you say sword skills are ‘situational’. Feel free to add to the discussion instead of this ^^