Guild Wars 2

Stand in red circles sure, if you see the thief pop up every now and then but trapper runes will make em get even more stealth plus superspeed. How do you assume people will know where the invisible target is and thus, know where a red circle may appear.

Stealth traps, yea sure i will do a 5sec cast to put one down and hope the thief is so blind he wont see me bend down rubbing the floor.

These arent counters chaps. Just get rid of the perma invisibility WHILE dishing out good condi damage. I can not believe the people who actually defend this but hey its about thieves so i knew it would happen anyway. Any reasonable player will say its an incredible stupid build and nope not OP but stupid.

I know perma stealth is still a thing etc but they do get them self revealed attacking.

Dead player tags been changed from red to grey – major improvement

Respawn timer of 5min been added – No more 1hr+ dead mesmer body camping

Party option fix – This was broken 18 months since release

And some more things i cant recall at this very moment.

Edit: found another one. Back in days wvw players would be kicked from WvW whenever a patch was upcoming, could take up hours upon hours

Reset time used to be around 1AM at night, changed to 7pm ( CET im talking about )

Introduction of Righteous Indignation buff, also been nerfed later from 300% to 100% dmg if i remember correctly.

Yes you can flip sm , no doubt about it. But this will just favor the big dominating server in a match up for most of the times. Dont have to be a rocket scientist to foresee the problems it would give.

@Jayne, try to see this in a whole picture rather then your own point of view.

Some explanations as to why they make such changes would be more then welcome.

Rather then the usual “Ok guys we decided to make x change deal with it, kthxbye”.

Invulnerable skills such as endure pain and signet of stones still vulnerable to cc and condition skills. No player should be able to stay 100% in stealth while doing damage but yeah i like your idea to put some direct dmg on the traps and perhaps buff them if needed.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Trapper

Read the 6th bonus.

MUDse.7623:

Offair.2563:

No this thread is solely about the trapper runes giving eternal stealth to a thief

oh u also dont read my posts .. scroll up a bit. trapper thief doesnt need em runes to stay invis permanently. the change to make trapper thief visible is adding dmg to thief traps not removing the stealth from traps. tho if u only put a bit direct dmg on the traps they r mostly useless so they also need a little buff. but hey why do i have to write this over and over again for u not to understand it anyway?

Yes thieves have perma stealth but what happens when they attack? Ooooh reveal

Unlike the trapper runes one that remain stealthed dealing damage, THAT is my point.
Bringing up other class fights etc isnt really useful as this topic.

No this thread is solely about the trapper runes giving eternal stealth to a thief throwing conditions and remains to be in stealth. Ever heard about comprehensive reading?

I cant see why you bring up your mesmer fight to a topic thats about the trapper runes giving eternal stealth while throwing condis like no tomorrow..

MUDse.7623:

Offair.2563:

That is the main problem what you describe here, to actually get them out of stealth. OFcourse i stood in red rings etc but that was just because i saw the thief pop up here and there and thats not the case with the trapper runes. Not all classes have access to reveals or portals/blinks to get to the red rings asap.

so u only went to the circle when u actually saw the thief there? allways run into pistolfield of a trapper thief. u dont need to blink into the rings it just speeds it up coz the thief will 99% get reveald that way. its enough if u move in so he only gets 1-2 hearseeker into it and not 3-4.

Offair.2563:

I just cant believe people who actually defend this cheese. It should not have been around in first place. And saying thief has been nerfed so this is the only viable build is utterly bullcrap cause i still get killed by the “normal” builds, maybe adapt or ask those who run it how they do it?

i defend this build to that point that i say its not OP but yes it is kind of cheese as u only need to know how try not getting revealed wich is not hard as only very few ppl try to get u out of stealth,

i killed such a thief already with pistolwhip thief but took me that long, that i ignore em nowadays move on, maybe put a /laugh in chat and focus on other peeps.

i dont say its the only viable build i prefer to faceroll pistolwhip kill ppl thats alot faster but only works on 1 vs 1 sometimes 1 vs 2-3 but not more. i know this wont work in a duel but while roaming if u use ur shadow trap properly u can up to 20k with pistolwhip+steal+sigils from out of nowhere without ppl seeing u before they got stunned. but well as there r not many ppl anymore to roam solo and i dont want to run in group this build is well i might kill someone out a group but then got to run again

Offair.2563:

Stealth trap has been introduced waaaaay before this trapper rune and was a good indicator that stealth is idd broken, why else adding it? It is not like there are other traps around to counter other class mechanics.

oh well anti invuln trap would be nice if u have a look on up comming chronomance then stealth will be ur least problem.

Offair.2563:

No class should be allowed to have 100% stealth up time during a fight where they actually doing dmg, albeit through conditions. Yes permastealth without the runes is stil a thing but they get revealed ( read getting a penalty ) for attacking.

i agree with u on this point. but i disagree the demanded nerfes for either the rune or the thief. cause they way ppl want the thief/rune get nerfed noone will use these utilities. i think in Thief forum <a href=“https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/So-this-happened-1/first#post5602523”>Raiden</a> made a good proposal. he wanted the needle trap and trip wire to deal dmg, so the thief will get revealed but in return buff those traps a bit so they would be still worth taking. if i find his post ill try to figure out how to link it to here,

Like i said a couple times before, its not stealth or the thief class but the rune that gives them eternal stealth during fights, attacking stuff! That should never have been possible and yea i said i stood in those rings fighting thieves without these runes cause you see them pop every now and then which is not the case with the trapper runes.

You can come with a lot of suggestions how to counter but do you think everyone has infinite condi cleanse on very low cds and you think the thieves wont counter pressure?

Rework the runes – no need to change anything on thieves at all.

yanoch.7051:

They should add a reveal on traps activation or traps circle on the ground like pistol field. I’m fine with any or both. I have no issue with pistol field since I can see it and I can somewhat counterplay and manage my risk/reward.

It used to be reveal on trigger when these runes got in game. Why they changed it and didnt took this perma stealth in account is way beyond me. But i have that much often with anets decisions so thats not new to me.

MUDse.7623:

well even if u make change for the traps to reveal the thief u wont see where the traps r if placed while in stealth. u do see my pistolfield : small red circle with a bit smoke inside.
then just move into the field because i use heartseeker to stack invis there – the trap invis is by far not enough for perma stealth. now if u stand in my pistolfield and i use heartseeker in it there is a good chance for me to hit u so i wont use heartseeker and make another pitolfield but if i only use 1 hearseeker per pistolfield i will have alot higher iniative cost so i wont be able to keep up stealth and if i am revealed i am pretty much dead. also if u have ports and blink into pistolfield i might be in heartseeker already and get revealed. fighting trapper thief is just about getting him out of stealth and then just cc him till he is dead, unless he runs shadow trap and has it set at the time he wont be able to escape. also if i get revealed. some ranger used a skill that i had taunt on me yesterday so i unwillingly attacked him , got revealed, sic em , 5 vs 1 nuke , dead. my kills/death with other thief builds is better as it mostly takes a while to kill ppl and as i said they r rarely alone and just rez each other or preassure me too much.^

edit: if ur on eu just pm me ingame if ur server is another color in wvw we can meet in EoTM and then u can see what happens if u keep jumping in my pistolfield – IMO best counter. there is also stealth disrupter trap but u souldnt be needed to use it.also if i see u placing it then its just wasted.

That is the main problem what you describe here, to actually get them out of stealth. OFcourse i stood in red rings etc but that was just because i saw the thief pop up here and there and thats not the case with the trapper runes. Not all classes have access to reveals or portals/blinks to get to the red rings asap.

I just cant believe people who actually defend this cheese. It should not have been around in first place. And saying thief has been nerfed so this is the only viable build is utterly bullcrap cause i still get killed by the “normal” builds, maybe adapt or ask those who run it how they do it?

Stealth trap has been introduced waaaaay before this trapper rune and was a good indicator that stealth is idd broken, why else adding it? It is not like there are other traps around to counter other class mechanics.

No class should be allowed to have 100% stealth up time during a fight where they actually doing dmg, albeit through conditions. Yes permastealth without the runes is stil a thing but they get revealed ( read getting a penalty ) for attacking.

To those people who support this idea: Should have moved down a couple of tiers and see how imbalanced it can be! Ofcourse you can flip sm when its un defended but that counts for every single objective. And 2 minutes is long enough to get to any place from SM.

Why Anet keeps on adding more stealth? It is really beyond me. Thought other games had bad stealth design, but i was totally wrong apparently..

@Meepey Stealth Trap is not an answer to this problem. Unless you sit somewhere on it waiting for perhaps a trapper teef to show up. I run lots of condi clears in this build. The problem is the perma stealth throwing conditions all over, think we both know its easier to apply then to cleanse.

Again im not bashing the thief but the abuse of the rune, thats the problem , not the class it self.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Really let’s see the only roles thieves have in Pvp are +1 (essentially a ranger pet), and Decap empty points. Hmm just because a class is in Meta doesn’t mean it’s OP. Since thieves die to any = skilled player on a different class.
Roaming in Wvw any class can roam in Wvw, you see thieves tack on as a +1 since they can immobile with their great mobility, but they need the party to kill the opponent.

You seem to miss the point of this thread. It is not about class vs class, but about a rune that completely makes a certain class 100% invisible during fights and still able to kill. It is almost par on players hacking under map.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Offair.2563:

It is not about class mechanics, but a rune that makes them completely invisible during the whole fight. Try to use trapper runes in spvp…oh wait a minute you cant and if you could they would have been revamped to get rid of this cheese right away.

Trapper rune would be useless in PvP, at least for thief, because it is all about capping points, which you can’t while sitting in stealth and because lots of aoe cleanse would make those condis useless.

It would annoy them fighting something that does not show up for a single or half second during a fight yet unload conditions on you like crazy, thats my point. “fighting” and killing and staying stealthed.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

If thieves QQ’d louder we wouldn’t be in the state that made this spec possible, people complained about stealth so Anet made thieves have a non stealth defense with Acrobatics, guess what people QQ’d that got gutted, and that spec relied on active play not passive damage mitigation to be good, unlike most other classes.

Point behind this, people in this game QQ when they get downed for not learning how to counter/ play a class that they claim to be overpowered, if trapper was so OP why do thieves not use it in Pvp or Pve? Because it’s not OP, it’s an annoyance. I main a S/D thief (since launch) I find stealth reliant thieves annoying but I learned how to kill them, it’s not hard, I told a guildy to stand in his small red circle, guess what he had a dead thief 3 secs later.

Now if you want to see an end to silly builds like “Ghost Thieves” don’t QQ when Thieves get a viable defense, I see more Classes go to the Thief forums and cry Nerf like no other, yet never see Thief players do nearly as much on other forums, so be pro active and instead yell nerf ask Anet to spread Thief Survivability to other traits and mechanics that don’t rely on stealth.

It is not about class mechanics, but a rune that makes them completely invisible during the whole fight. Try to use trapper runes in spvp…oh wait a minute you cant and if you could they would have been revamped to get rid of this cheese right away.

apharma.3741:

Offair.2563:

apharma.3741:

Offair.2563:

@ Arphama Yep they can still perma stealth but will be revealed upon doing damage. Something that does not happen when they run trapper runes and putting conditions on you out of nowhere, THAT is the problem.

Yeah which is why I said they just need to add damage to the thief traps except needle trap, problem solved. Could even add it to needle trap if you want, won’t make much of a difference.

There is an easier solution, just revert them back to what they were, reveal on trigger.

That will work too, either way you just need them to reveal the thief for a time when they go on the offence with the traps.

@Jana, you’re suggesting nerfing the runes because one and only one class can abuse the stealth aspect. Especially when it’s the class, thief in this case, that is the odd one out with traps that don’t reveal it when triggered.

Btw this isn’t anti thief, if it was any other class with traps that didn’t reveal them too then my answer would be the same. Let’s just hope Mesmer doesn’t get traps sometime…

Just wait for HoT and dragonhunter guardians with traps. Already know some people who going to try them.

apharma.3741:

Offair.2563:

@ Arphama Yep they can still perma stealth but will be revealed upon doing damage. Something that does not happen when they run trapper runes and putting conditions on you out of nowhere, THAT is the problem.

Yeah which is why I said they just need to add damage to the thief traps except needle trap, problem solved. Could even add it to needle trap if you want, won’t make much of a difference.

There is an easier solution, just revert them back to what they were, reveal on trigger.

@ Arphama Yep they can still perma stealth but will be revealed upon doing damage. Something that does not happen when they run trapper runes and putting conditions on you out of nowhere, THAT is the problem.

Yeah always run with and use stealth traps. Pop one down incase a thief running trapper runes will come at ya. Seriously though I started this topic to ask for a logical explanation why Anet allows this as they have tried to get rid of the perma stealth build. Now it is back and even in a worse state.

I know how to counter them but I am still clueless why they leave this garbage in wvw and why dont they have them in Spvp.

Well thats my problem with it, people need to spend 15 badges plus some silver plus having supply plus hoping the thief will trigger it so he/she finally shows up during the fight. No other class mechanic requires all the stuff thats needed like this.

Edit: I am not bashing the thief class but just the combo of traps – condis – these runes and Anets way of “balance”.

A while ago Anet changed the thief a bit so they couldnt have access to the ridicilous perma stealth. Then they revamped the trapper runes so they wont reveal anymore when enemies trigger the traps. Do you guys at Anet’s office ever took thief trap in account when making this change? Apparantly not because the stealth now is even more ridicilous then it was ever before.

You can consider this post as a rant one and i am not asking for a thief nerf, but a revert/removal of these trapper runes. Why arent they allowed in Spvp? Cause it would make players going /sigh there? Why are they allowed in WvW then.

The firework pots have been disabled back with the toys that were “abused” for the speedbuff.

I know how to counter it but that does not mean i enjoy fighting classes that barely show up during fights. Its annoying and remains annoying.

DeWolfe.2174:

It’s very simple, SM is rarely held or upgraded any longer. That Castle is supposed to be the “Big Thing” of WvW to grab and hold. Way pointing SM used to be a huge accomplishment. Now, no one ever really tries to way point it at all. It just acts as a huge supply shed and something to KTrain. They are adding bonuses to it to make it worth holding. There’s nothing wrong with that at all.

For the conversation of SM not being held or flipped often, I just checked Millenium for how long SM has been held for. Here’s are the minutes held in descending tier order.

NA : 9, 19, 19 18, 70, 196, 69, 349
EU: 13, 52, 5, 12, 52, 773, 1, 7, 13

So except for the 3 outlier’s, SM is rarely ever held and upgraded any longer.

That is weird, last couple days i woke up to see a waypoint in SM in our match up. and the match ups before it so this is not really true. Maybe in t1 it might be but not on lower tiers and match up blow outs.

meltdown.5870:

this is fantastic……….now all anet has to do is to stealth SM..towers and castles …and we will spent all our gamingtime looking for the gates……..
when we are at it ………………why not wrap the whole map in stealth ….

Be careful, Anet seems to LOVE stealth more then the players. They might pick this idea up.

Add ons like dps/gearcheck meters are great tools to create toxicity! I really hated them back in WoW as people were considered a number, rather then a player participating in a video game encounter.

Carried by traps and the stupid trapper runes. Lamest build of all available.

Just shut wvw down every time i log off.

Dunno if the devs play pvp games themself, but they seem to love ot hide in stealth for some reason. Its getting more and more and more and why exactly?

How about anet gives you the money back and resetted your account as if it was new? Bye skins Bye titles Bye whatever new players cant obtain anymore.

Calm down, they are gone in a couple of hours.

DeWolfe.2174:

caljay.8720:

HellRaZor.6742:

End resut though we got tiefs staying perma stealthed even while attacking

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trap
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Trapper
Thief traps dont reveal as they dont do direct damage

Obviously then, it’s something that needs a rework and should be consider an exploit. It was impossible to kill, you couldn’t target it at all, and yet could do extremely high condi damage. All with never showing up on my combat log. Just the ticks of the specific condi damage was visible, not the source. Anyone telling me that’s working as intended has a truly warped perception of balance. There’s a reason why Choking Gas now reveals as it’s not intended to be able to stay in stealth AND do damage.

It is terrible design on anets behalf and completely ridicilous to fight something that does not even show up when you trigger a trap. Anyone who thinks this is right can get a free reality check from me.

Even dolyaks start to hack now sigh.

Those perma stealthed thieves while fighting could be running trapper runes as they dont reveal anymore after triggering the traps. Something anet could revert as its quite redicilous.

Papierkorb.2301:

Ye the thing is those people who managed to get into the raid properly already succeeded in killing the bosses (according to reddit).

My point is NOT that there shouldn’t be bugs in beta.
My point IS that the only challenging part about the beta are the bugs.

This is exact the reason i dont bother with beta. This Alpha we play last 3 years still full of bugs.

Oh, i havent been able to get back on due to a stalling download/connection issues. Is that the one you guys going to adress with this disable?

Rebooting the client seemed to fix it for me, although its very sloooow its going.

laokoko.7403:

This post is truly inspirational.

I feel your pain. I run around boarderland trying to do dailys or farm badge of honors. But out of no where come this roamer who try to gank me. I try to run away showing him I’m not interested, but he keep chasing me half way across the map. Even if I use a quaggan tonic to show I dont’ want to fight, he keep killing me.

I want to tell the community if you see someone run around boarderland, that dont’ necessary mean he is interested in fighting. Especially those in quaggan form. Please leave them alone. If you see people taking a camp, that most likely he is just doing dailys. At least wait for him to take the objective before trying to kill him.

Obviously everyone will continue ganking the OP just like they continuing ganking me… Which make the post kind of funny.

TLDR: Do not attack other players in a pvp related mode…

+1 for this idea. I really like Exemplar attire outfit but would love to finish it with a top hat. Or sunglasses.

Nice ego boost 10/10

If worried about loot, spend 1 hour a week in silverwastes and you have way more/better then a whole week of wvw!

Junkpile.7439:

Well people have done that 3 years. I didn’t even know that you can’t build there.

Check the small lock icon on above your utilities. Clearly says you cant put siege down on those spots.

Yea it’s an exploit and i already foresee people comingf here saying you are not supposed to hold the north towers due to this or that. aka defending this exploit.

BaltazarBlake.1983:

Guild Wars 2: Battle of the Thousand Clicks . What is this New Content? Because i feel the lack of it ..

Go open all the bags you loot. Go buy stuff in bulks from vendors. Go use mystic toilet.

Just to name a few things that would be a battle of thousand clicks.

If those people playing eotm would be interested in the “real” wvw they’d be playing it by now. Dont think wvw will see a mass influx of new players if you deleted that map. They will just find other places to have their ktrains.

First it was queensdale champtrain. Anet removed them so they moved on to the next map which was and still is eotm.

Instead of reducing stealth they will add more and more and more..

A No downed state event would be nice. For like a week or 2 to see how it changes gameplay.