Guild Wars 2

Celestina.2894:

Is someone seriously accusing the mining pick of being pay to win?

The mining pick where you need some impossible number of uses to break even?

You do know you can purchase the ori gathering tools with karma right? And at a hilariously low karma price at that?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mining_Pick

To put that into context:

17g = 1700s

@ 4s per 25 that is 425 stacks (or 10625 uses)

To break even on the purchase of that pick you would probably need to do nothing but run around mining for at least a month.

Had the game since launch but only recently got a character to 80 (Warrior) and have been looking for an active Guild to do some dungeons and WvW with. I also have a low level Guardian and Necro.

I am mostly a solo player but do enjoy the occasional Dungeon and venture into more organized WvWvW. Also looking to start participating in Guild missions.

I am on EST and usually play from 9pm-1130pm on weekdays (some days though I may only get on and be able to do the dailies), and sometimes for a few hours in the afternoons on Sat and Sunday.

Should probably include my character name and that I am willing to transfer:
Ordika Skirata

My Warrior is a Rifle/Hammer with Bolo, Rush, and Stomp (in a group setting I switch out Bolo for the most useful shout). Most of my traits are around reducing cooldowns on my chosen weapons and toughness.

I will call myself, Denial of Service.

@Pilusilm

While you analysis of why D3 has not been a smashing success (sales numbers not withstanding), it does not apply to GW2.

GW2 is not a hack and slash loot quest. Nor is it a gear treadmill, so comparisons to other gear treadmill games are not accurate.

I have been playing since headstart, have only about 165 or so hours played. I have never been in a zone with out noticing at least several other players playing. I have a level 55 Warrior, 40 Engineer, and 30 Guardian. I play any one of them for about 10 levels at a time, and once my Warrior hits 60, I’ll be introducing my 4th alt to the mix (Mesmer or Ranger).

I love that I can do that. I love that I can get on and do whatever I want that night. I love not having to meet a gear requirement or level requirement to be able to participate in this or that activity (yes I know zones do have level restrictions but there are a ton to choose from at every level that it hasn’t been an issue for me). But mostly I love that I don’t pay a monthly sub and that I can stop for a week to play Torchligh 2 or Tribes, or anything else and come back and not be behind. To me Endgame always meant the game is over (I am old and played games before there was anything past moving to the next level for progression).

Thanks for the guide Noun, gave me a lot to think about when I hit 80 and whether or not a legendary becomes my goal.

But I have to say Legendary should equal Legendary, I don’t need one so if I want one and can put in the time and effort to get it I really earned that Legendary. I don’t even have a problem with the RNG portion of it.

If I am comparing GW2 to any other MMO then I agree with you. Even though top and FOTM builds always exist, more options always can lead to interesting things and the next FOTM.

GW2 is not currently (we have no idea where they will take the build system and even GW1 didn’t have everything it has now available day 1) have many options when it comes to build. When I tried to play an elementalist I just couldn’t get into it because no one weapon combo appealed to me thru all attunements, and there was no weapon swap. But then I look at my Warrior and as long as I have any of the 2H weapons equipped I’m happy as a clam. To me the 2H weps synergize really well with the available utilities and it suits my game play.

Same with the engineer as all of the weapon combos there I love so I don’t need swap and can tinker around with my utilities and have found many enjoyable combos there.

Keep following the game and hope to see you back as the patches and expansions will hopefully expand on the combat builds/options.

Fuub.6185:

Here is why:

- Leveling to 90 almost just doing battlegrounds (they give xp).

- The quest rewards and the few dungeons I do give me better items that I can use in battlegrounds and feel more powerfull every time !

- Want to reach 90 so I can spend my honor in PVP gear and feel the PROGRESS!!

- Lot’s of game modes in PVP, lots of different maps that helps to not get old.

- Enjoyable FOV.

- Love rogue.

Couple of the things you included here are not comparable:

Load’s of PvP modes should be expected in a 9 year old game, not so much in one that is a few months old. I am sure they will be adding more as it is generally a better idea to launch with a few things and see how they work and then add more in later.

Your focusing on gear progression for a lot of your comparison which was never intended to exist in GW2. True your gear gets better as you level, but as there is a hard cap and not meant to be the carrot at the end of the stick it is irrelevant.

As I have gotten exp for everything I have done in WvWvW, are you implying that you get more making it easier to hit cap?

Either way enjoy WoW and hope to see you back in GW2 when new content is released

Zionka.6897:

Rushing to end game why? Why do people feel driven to do that in every single game?

While I wouldn’t use the term rush, I definitely agree that I think people are getting to 80 and expecting what they would normally find in a MMO and just not knowing what to do when that doesn’t exist.

I think it is just a case of incompatibility between the game and gamer.

azurrei.5691:

add some more meat at the end of the stick.

I can agree with this but too many people think that meat should be a gear treadmill, and I have yet to see a succession on what ANet should add that fits with the current design philosophy with this game.

I don’t see this game ever becoming a gear treadmill, so succession to that end are pointless. Personally I would like Story missions. A serious of ‘quests’ like the personal stories that you can pick up and play through. Some designed for solo and some designed for groups. But they revolve around a story envolving the great conflicts of the world, maybe even some historical story missions that allow you to experience some of the lore of the past.

@Dethamaio The game is not meant to be played addictively every night, that is why there is no sub fee. Think of this game more as an FPS MMO and the design decisions become more clear. With that in mind if you don’t like what there is to do at 80 doesn’t mean there is nothing to do. Yes Map Completion is one thing, Legendaries another, and running dungeons for the cosmetic gear. Two types of PvP exist to master and earn other rewards.

This may not be your cup of tea but it does not mean there is nothing to do, just that there is nothing you want to do.

Jack of Tears.9458:

When you look at a picture of buildings or mountains online and immediately start looking for ways to climb them to get to the Vista.

Or just as you drive to work

I think it would be an interesting way to get people out into the world if everything had a chance of dropping something of an RNG table.

Actually it is the designers job to innovate, the dev makes the designers idea come to life.

But really the point was that there is nothing new or fresh to come yup with, there is only the designers spin. The game which shall not be named, has tons of skills/traits per “profession” but they are all just filler. As a “Ranger” I would just spam X shot until Y shot was of cooldown, and then if situation A came up I would use B ability. Sound familiar, it should because it is every game that is not a hack and slash or run and gun.

GW2 spin is the weapon combos. It is interesting as it makes you consider the weapons you have equipped before you go into battle and how it interacts with the traits and skills you have. Once they introduce trait set swapping (they have said they want to) then this system will become more robust. I agree some weapon combos for some professions are lacking, and the one class that is all about weapons is just as limited in swap options (should have been 4 for warriors taking the place of prof skills), but the combat it’s self is fine in my opinion. Your auto attack is your “rotation” while your other attacks and skills are there for situations use (CC, debuffs, burst, etc).

dimgl.4786:

the skills and traits just feel like a lot of filler.

This is all combat games that do not rely on guns or simple hack and slash. Cooldowns, timers, fill bars, and resource management are nothing new and all games a just a variation on one or more of these mechanics.

Honestly the combat here is nothing revolutionary (even by MMO standards) but I have yet to feel bored in combat as I intentionally switch it up. I would probably stick with a particular ultimate build in dungeons or PvP, but when I am doing my own thing I like to play with whatever I have see if I can’t stumble on something new.

A Warrior with a rifle is a kiting machine.

Add bola’s and charge as two of your skills and you can effectively make a champion chase you around never getting a swing in (while applying vulnerability).

I did this very thing with a Jotun Champion in Dreadnaught Cliffs. I basically had him chase me around in a circle while 3 other players killed him.

Your issue may be with the job not the tool.

In a way I am agreeing, as I am not a fan of every professions abilities. Warrior is great for me as I can control my abilities thru my weapon selection and that is a huge pool to choose from. But elementalist or engineer with such a limited selection can be a bit boring (though engineer does make up for this with kits).

Funny thing is I think ANet is the cause of their own headache when it comes to being able to out bid gold seller for your gold buying business.

Because the CE is available for Gems then Gems must have a hard and steady correlation to real money, and since gold can buy Gems, same thing. This is why items do not vendor for much and monetary rewards are not what we are used to in other MMO’s.

Personally I think ANet should do what EA does with their F2P games and have a trading post currency that is obtained in game, and one that is obtained for real money. Then you can have two separate conversions, and you can make two prices for every item (CE would be 2000 Gems but 4000 Dragon Teeth).

I have a Warrior at 51, Engineer at 30, Elementalist at 18, Guardian at 8

I play one until I want to change things up and then play another.

Plague.5329:

That’s fair, although you have to consider your market if you’re trying to sell to it. In that situation, if it was just marketed to the wrong people, that again is the producer’s fault, not the consumer.

However, with GW2, obviously they have a very, very large market. Their main concern is going to be who their primary income is. Will it be new players trickling in, enjoying the game until 80, then quitting, and possibly returning for expansions? Gem purchasers? How long will those people play? How much of a stretch in income do we want to ensure repeat purchases but also not to trivialize limited content? Those are questions we won’t have answers to because we don’t know what their income looks like. What they focus on will depend on who they’re trying to retain the most. You can’t please everyone, but you can please your best customers.

Granted you go where the money is, but that should have been decided up front in the business model.

Personally given what I know of consumer psyche, in almost all cases this is the consumer’s fault for one of two reasons; build up of unreachable hype/expectations and/or simply good salesmanship the buyer bought into instead of the particulars of the product. To give you an example, if you ever read the D3 forums after launch the biggest complaint was the lack of offline mode. While I didn’t like D3 I was flabbergasted that people were complaining about it as Blizz had stated their would be no offline at least a year prior to the game being made. Again buyer beware.

My ultimate opinion is simply that a business should strive to make the best possible product that they are trying to make, and expertly sell it to as many people as possible. But a reaction to a product in terms of satisfaction is always on the customer. To give you an example, GW2 has some bugs, and I know ANet is working on them, so as long as they are fixed before ANet rolls out any new content I will be satisfied (it is why I am not crying for ANet’s blood even though I know of some bugs and a few even blocked my progress at one point). That is on me because I determine my level of acceptance of certain unavoidable things (bugs will always exist), but not everyone is as laid back as me and I can still get my moneys worth by doing other activities while the bugs are fixed. But again that is my response to the situation I bought into of my own free will.

Plague.5329:

Again, the problem is never the consumer, when it comes to design. Your job is to make something that makes money, and keeps making money. If your consumers decide to take their money somewhere else, you don’t stab your finger at their back as they walk into the sunset and tell them they don’t know how to enjoy your product. That’s your failure. You are the failure. Not them. You are the bad designer. If you can’t respond to that failure, all the worse for you. The consumer will just move on, leaving you only with a collection of fanboys eager to stroke your ego and agree with one another that everything is perfect, except for all the problems they can’t bring themselves to address.

The problem with your analysis is that it assumes a customer not liking your product makes you or your product a failure, when it could be just as simple as a bad fit (not every product is for everybody).

ANet has never said get on board or get out, but by the same token just because they didn’t get every single human on the planet to like their game doesn’t mean the capitulate to their desires. It just means that you except that the customer didn’t purchase the right product for themselves, either from lack of knowledge or because of a smooth talking salesman (buyer beware).

Customer expectation is a problem the designer can’t fix and is not their problem. Unfortunately we live in a society where the consumer has been given to much power in the seller/purchaser relationship. Granted this is in reaction to when the seller had to much power, but imbalance the other way never makes up for the original imbalance.

Ronin.8095:

Ordika.9513
“They want the comfort of the WoW way of doing things, but don’t want to play WoW anymore.”

That’ll be the (upto) 10 year time investment some people have put in but can’t walk away from. What was it all for!?

These are games. You’re the fool if you’ve put in so much time that you can’t walk away from it. Normal people do that with women and mortgages, not with games.

That’s a little bit weird.

I agree, they want to give up the game, but can’t so they look for something similar but with all the same trappings.

I am probably in a small subset among old (age wise) gamers in that I ignored MMO’s untill 2009, my only multiplayer coming from FPS and RTS. Every other genre I played solo and at my leisure. For me giving up on an MMO is no more difficult then turning in a copy of Assassin’s Creed after I beat it. Once I have gotten all I could get out of the game I moved on.

rook.4625:

Na, I think what they want is a sense of a reward.

This is too subject to be the answer.

They want the comfort of the WoW way of doing things, but don’t want to play WoW anymore.

Greyfeld.7104:

Most RPGs finish their story long before ever reaching the level cap, so the feeling of progression stays linear throughout the entirety of the game.

Honestly I was going to say not many modern, but in all honesty, I can go back to Baldur’s Gate and Fallout and safely say I hit level cap long before I got to the end of the game.

Action/Adventure games are the only ones that really gated the experience, Super Metroid probably the most obvious requiring you to find a particular weapon or armor upgrade before you could progress. No matter how many enemies you killed you still needed the missile upgrade to get past the missile locked gate.

But with any RPG (defining characteristic being exp gaining for leveling) then you could just kill clear a level and out level the content. In a single player environment most RPG’s were never about the gear (you got that too) but the abilities and power gained thru leveling. It was when I started playing MMO’s, that all the sudden gear was the goal. I like that GW2 plays more like the single player RPG’s I’m used to (only been playing MMO’s for the last 4 years of my 20+ year gaming life).

rook.4625:

Dude, if you want rewards, you’re playing the wrong game apparently. Go to WoW, duh!

I’ll attempt to actually be helpful

From my limited experience as an elementalist doing DE’s, I have found that Septer MH Dagger OH is the best combo.

Use Air and Earth attunement…start in Air use #4 to jump into combat then quickly switch to Earth and use #4 followed by #5 from there just use #2 to protect yourself and then swap to Air when it is off CD and hit #5 to jump out of combat. From there I usually just use Air auto-attack and #2 to deal quick damage from a distance.

Using this method I have yet to get less then a gold on any DE I have done.

Edit: you could go Dagger/Dagger, but I like the Septer attacks better so that I can get out of melee when done with the Air/Earth/Air rotation.

Wiser with Age.3714:

Shao.7049:

Guild Wars 2 should stick to their “the climb” approach while also including the grinding “end game scene” that more traditional MMO players expect – doing so keeps the best of both worlds in check.

In the long term picture, I suspect that ArenaNet will alter the “end game scene” to be more like other MMOs. Whether you consider this to be adapting to their audience or caving into whining will depend on your point of view. Yet making an end game system does take time, especially if it isn’t based around some form of raid progression. I wouldn’t expect to really see anything substancial for at least another month or two.

I definitely think they will add more to do at 80, but I wouldn’t expect (or at least I hope) that it will not be the same vertical progression of other games. I’d really like to see them try something new. Not necessarily revolutionary but maybe evolutionary.

Loving it.

My 49 Warrior is almost done with Dreadnaught Cliffs
My 18 Engineer completed Metrica Province and his first two story archs
My 16 Elementalist has finished Caledon Forest and his first story arch

Last night I spent my entire night trying to get the Dark Reverie jumping puzzle on my elementalist, but man is that one a tough one. Once I complete that I’ll finish up his second story arch, then go back to leveling my Warrior some more.

@Lance

based on your screen shot your math works out like this:

158 hours total (131 on that character)/27 days – 5.85
If you play 3 on weekdays you would be playing 10.99 hours on weekends (that is factoring 20 weekday days and 7 weekend days)

Your 1 80 is 131 hours meaning you only spent 27 hours (or 1 hour per day) on your alt. What level are they, what is their personal map completion and crafting level?

That’s not to invalidate anyone’s argument just to get the math straight.

Vzur.7123:

I don’t think it’s just about rewards, per se, but having cool stuff to look forward to. We get all our skills up front, so that leaves it all up to gear. And level after level, too much of the gear is the same. Then at 80, it’s even more of the same.

What I mean is that I think it’s just good gameplay, when there’s more of an evolution of content involved. When things change, when there are milestones to look forward to. Often in the form of reward, but not necessarily. That’s not the important thing. The important thing is keeping the content from stagnating, by changing it up here and there.

This reminds me of something I was thinking about the other day. Why even bother with levels. Your weapons skill are obtained as you use the weapon but done so at a clip that I had every skill for every weapon as a Warrior unlocked before I left the first zone. They could have instead added more skill points and left skill acquisition strictly through skill point hunting.

I think that they wanted some progressions (you can’t completely leave it out) but were more interested in story/event progression then stat progression. But put in stat progression as a mean of slowly adjusting people from the skinner box model.

robot.9134:

If a business thinks it doesnt HAVE TO keep customers because they are basically doing good enough…. thats just a horrible way to settle with your products quality and will drive customers away. They obviously want this game to be more successful than gw1.

Not having to and not wanting to are two completely different things and have completely different designs/goals.

Skinner Box MMO’s have to keep people playing because they rely on subs.

F2P MMO’s have to keep people playing because they rely on large amounts of cash shop purchases.

B2P with cash shop don’t have to (they want to) because their profits are mostly made via initial sales, and expansion sales (these do not require retention as all current players will probably buy and a large set of previous players are likely to take the plunge).

So a B2P isn’t beholden to their customers, they are free to make the game they want. Now that doesn’t mean they will completely ignore you (and I never insinuated they would) because happy playing customer are more likely to spend on the cash shop, but temper your expectations accordingly. Phrase your request accordingly (saying they will fail is a sure way to be ignored), and most of all work with them withing the framework which they have laid. ANet has not laid a skinner box framework and are unlikely to change that.

Lance Coolee.9480:

2. How can you as a business analyst assume you have enough information of a company you have no relations with (regardless if the business philosophies mimic those of other companies) to decide what is a successful business direction or not.

1) Publicly traded company.
2) Business Analyst get paid huge money to do just that, both from companies as well as investment firms and news outlets.
3) Past success plays a major roll in both model and design (if I know it works why deviate)

3. How do you think that any of your discussion on the topic would even trigger an “AHA!” moment from ArenaNet on how they choose to drive their company

I’m not trying to convince ANet of anything, I am trying to educate a gamer in how business model dictates design philosophy not the other way around. So his call to the company to change or they will fail is not valid. The will fail if they deviate from the design philosophy without adjusting the business model or vice versa.

I’m in product development; I take ZERO advice from outside opinions on HOW to run my company (because they haven’t a clue as to any of the business details, unless I hired them as a consultant, brought them in and provided them with enough information to make logical decisions). I do take TONS of advice from consumers who have suggestions on what we can do to improve the products they use.

If you want to argue something, make it about the product, not the business. That’s the only way you’ll be able to provide any VALID constructive feedback.

Consumers are outside opinions (they have no stake in your company unless you make the only life saving apparatus they can use), are fickle (history has proven this many times), and are many times not capable of rational thought (the only reason you need to add so much to cake mix is because when first introduced people thought it was crap because it was so easy to make).

Again, every company designs their products based on their business model. Not understanding that will not allow people to properly set their expectations in regards to said constructive feedback, because not every constructive feedback is valid (the two are not mutually exclusive).

Bruno Sardine.2907:

But do the rewards have to be skins? Why is design philosophy being confused as fiat that must be strictly followed? I know what the developers said, but that doesn’t mean what they said is necessarily right.

You have infrastructure in place for this game that balances characters… I see no reason why you can’t have sweet items that are hard to get and have awesome stats. Why do I see no reason? Because if it’s PvE, why does it matter what someone else has? If it’s WvW, you have balancing mechanics… so you can just balance the stats to only give exotic-equivalent stats. The PvE skilled keep their epicness in the PvE realm while the PvP/WvW skilled keep their awesomeness through skill alone in the PvP realms.

Win?

While on the face of it, it does not seem to effect anything because its PvE and they can scale in PvP, the design philosophy of this game from everything I have gathered leads me to believe they don’t want gear treadmills based on stats (aesthetics yes, stats no). It maybe nothing more then a branding issue, the part the makes GW2 stand out from the competition.

Lance Coolee.9480:

@Ordika, Robot:

Speculating what business model works / doesn’t work is way out of our realm of responsibility as consumers, so arguing either point holds no bearing on the direction of the product. We don’t work for the company, we don’t have nearly enough data to prove what business direction they need to take (regardless of what experiences we’ve had in our professions).

The only thing we can do is state what does / doesn’t work for us (individually) about the product and even go so far as to suggest solutions to the problems the product presents.

If you’ve got an issue with the game, present it (along w/ what you would do to fix it) and discuss; but seriously, stop flooding forums w/ discussions over what the company needs / needs not to do to survive.

What if said consumer was a business analyst and is paid to do just that. I was trying to say the same thing via counter argument (you don’t know whether the game will fail but if you are going to speculate do so from the proper business model). However one can definitely say is that the existing business model works as it did so for GW1 and continues to work with most online shooters. This is not opinion as the continued existence of these companies proves the model successful. Whether it will for GW2 is another matter, but I would bet on it working given track record and sales.

As to the other part, I love GW2 design philosophy and I hope it succeeds so more companies try it. But I also hope it doesn’t replace skinner box games as they to have their place and can coexist (I still have my Rift sub and play it). I won’t absolve the company from fixing bugs, but I have yet to see an unwillingness to do so. But I also understand prioritizing and the need to balance what you want to fix verse what you can fix, and would only complain if they start pumping out new content before the fix the existing content.

I would say most problems amount to an issue of preferred play style vs class design. For instance someone doesn’t like Warrior play style because they don’t like the setup of synergizing your traits/skills with 2 weapon sets they you will swap between while in combat.

This however is not the same as not liking your class as the abilities are bugged (from my understanding this is the main problem with Necro’s), but liking you classes play style.

So far I tried Warrior (which I loved from the start and still love), Engineer (once I gave up on FTK and focused on Rifle + Turrets I loved), and Elementalist (I am still up in the air about as my favorite weapons abilities are from septer and off hand dagger but they don’t synergize well at my level).

robot.9134:

They obviously aren’t going to scrap it and copy wow but they are going to do what works and keeps customers. Right now a lot of customers are bored and not happy with end game.

The fallacy of your argument is that they don’t need to keep customers, they need to have returning customers. No sub fee means they rely on box sales, and the 20/80 rule (20% of the player base will fund the other 80% play time via cash shop sales). The beauty of the 20/80 rule is that it does not rely on a set size in player base.

Returning customer psychology is much different from retention. Therefore if they focus on fixing bugs, with enough free content release, then they will most likely be able to get enough sales to justify an expansion. This business mode (notice I didn’t say game design philosophy) worked well for GW1 and also works well for most online shooters.

Crica.1503:

Porky.5021:

I would guess that Anet will continue to make the game that they want.

only if it makes them the most money – sorry, but in real life, companies exist to make money, not to turn away money….

Actually companies exist to make a profit, and some times to do that one does turn customers away if they are unable to provide the service the customer is looking for.

This is what is know as niche marketing. You don’t come out with something super revolutionary that will replace all competitors, but instead find a niche of the market that is not fully satisfied with the existing model and try to provide them what they want as an alternative, and this is the path ANet has decided to take. Would they be please if they revolutionize the market, absolutely, but that does not appear to be what they are trying to do.

I wish I could remember where it is but there was an interesting article about small businesses and how most don’t exist to innovate, but to simply find the niche and be profitable. Combine that with the article from I believe Gamespot about how MMO’s should stop chasing the dream of dethroning WoW and simple seek to be profitable and viola, you have ANet’s design and market strategy.

UgaBuga.6457:

That is true, but this is an MMO, it shouldn’t be like this. Your suppose to put many hours into it? or am i wrong? Sure ive spent alot of hours player it since release, but the game is missing alot of stuff. I know it just got released, but there is so much, that they should have inserted in the game at launch :/

But its not like that for all, infact many people have said so in this very thread. I’ve put many hours into this game and will probably be putting many more. When I run out of stuff I want to do, I’ll move on and be back for all new content.

You say it is missing stuff, but what stuff is it missing that ANet hasn’t said since before launch that is wouldn’t have in the first place. For my money I got every bit the game the ANet promised and am still having a blast playing it. Lack of desire to do content doesn’t equate to lack of content. It might be this game isn’t a serious MMO for you but just something you pick up for a week or two when new content is release (and since no sub this is easy to do) and/or when an expac drops.

Campana.9216:

Once upon a time, in the small village of Emoville, the most popular fruit was apples. Nearly everyone loved apples, because they were crunchy and crispy and they were eaten every day. One day, however, a pear seller wandered into the village square. People were intrigued, because the pear seller claimed her pears were totally different from apples and would just melt in your mouth when you bit into them.

Everyone tried the pears. Some of the villagers loved them, finding them succulent and juicy and delicious, and much nicer than apples.

But some people complained that the pears were no good because they weren’t as crispy and shiny as apples.

As a result the village divided into two camps – those who loved apples, and those who loved pears. They spent all day arguing over which was better. Apple lovers claimed pears were an inferior product, whereas pear lovers claimed that apple lovers just didn’t know how to eat pears properly in order to appreciate them.

True story.

And then the Watermelon seller wanders by accidentally and the stuff really hits the fan

Jonnyguitar.1684:

Theres no “Rotations” in PvP in WoW in case you werent aware.

It’s all situational, and in alot of cases most of the abilities on here have way too long CD’s, forcing you to run around in circles auto attacking because you cant do anything else.

Yes and no, there are still ‘Rotations’ they are just more fluid. You still have to do certain attacks to generate the build up to a finisher or big attack, or any of the synergy type attacks, you just are less slavish to them as you might not be able to preform them or need to do something else.

All my damaging macros where on my PVP hotbar, but I had other skills that I never used in PvE also key bound. But my dmg (Rotation) macros where still used.

Roland Dragonne.7384:

I would like to say here that while getting the achievement is nice and all, the constructed mechanic is to bring that bomb past all of those randomly “cheating” Griffons to the chest in under 3 minutes (which, when you do make it, is easily done in under 2 without excessive rushing) in order to blast open said chest and collect your reward.

I for one, after spending 5 minutes to easily get the achievement and 45 minutes to get the bomb there due to those Griffons would have liked to get my reward from that chest!

Kill the Griffons and carve your reward out of their hides

UgaBuga.6457:

Stevoli.8795:

UgaBuga.6457:

Stevoli.8795:

Jonnyguitar.1684:

I’m getting a bit bored of pressing 2 buttons, weapon swap, press 2 buttons, repeat.

That’s pretty much every mmo out there, especially with macros.

NOT AT ALL!!!! Wtf man. thats pretty much, no other MMO than GW2….

WoW was different SWTOR was different Aion was different. Dont try and defend GW2 around this subject! Because, no other MMO that ive played, have you had so little to choose from.

Really? Are you talking about MMOs where you have 5 hotbars stacked up with keys bound to shift,ctrl,alt,etc, which all basically do the same thing with slight variations? Yeah that’s innovative.

BTW I’m not defending anything, just stating the obvious.

Then you clearly havnt tried any of the other MMO’s. or you must have been lvl 1 on the character in the games, running around with “auto attack”.

/castsequence from WoW and the awesome fall through macro of Rift beg to differ

zerospin.8604:

You can complete it after some tries without the bomb. It is fairly easy. There is no real point to carry the bomb anyway, I’ve never seen anything interesting in any of the puzzle chests, and I’ve done nearly all of them, some multiple times. I agree Griffinrook Run is pretty bugged, griffons can indeed hit you long after you have jumped, had my bomb blown up in mid flight multiple times. Just ask yourself, why do you bother with the bomb, if you get worse loot from it, than from killing a few griffons? Do it for the achievement, without the bomb

Funny thing, when I did finally give up and just go for the acheive, the thrid Griffon I killed (the first one on the cliff side nests, right after you leave the first set of ruins) dropped a green Rifle that was an upgrade over what I had, and I think I got a ton of Vials from all the griffon kills (I killed them all as punishment for the run)

To add some positives to this the person who made the Sharkmaw Cavern puzzle should be given a raise and free rein to make all future jumping puzzles.

I ended up just giving up on opening the chest and just finished it for the achievement.

Warrior 47
Engineer 18
Elementalist 15

9/10 – some of the bugs on skill points and DE’s which block progression on them irk my OCD, but as long as ANet fixes them and I can eventually complete them I’m good

I have no idea what my total playtime is, but I’ll guesstimate anywhere between 60 and 120 hours (yes I know that is a large variation )

I do not understand why people think it lacks content. I have yet to get past 75 skill points in any crafting. I have maybe 40% map completion on my most advanced character. I have a Warrior at 47, Engineer at 18 and Elementalist at 15, so I have plenty more classes and story lines to see. I have only done 1 dungeon (AC) on story mode (though several times).

If that is all I’ve gotten in at most 120 hours I can imagine completing everything will take me quite sometime. Uber min/maxer’s who rush through content should never be the voices a dev team listens to in terms of content because you simply cannot please them (even Rift doesn’t try and I love Trion). Sure bugs and what not, but not content critiques.

Synn Dinalt.7251:

:)Okay – but these are only my views – I fully respect that others love GW2, and I’m glad they’re getting satisfaction from it.

It’s hard to put my finger on any one thing in particular, so I’ll summarise why I feel that GW2 is lacking (and these are only my views – we’ll all have an opinion on the game, and I respect that others views will differ from mine).

I played GW1 from just after release date, played through the extra instalments and still fire it up now on occasion.

1) The PvE side of GW1 was utterly immersive from day 1. Possibly that was helped along by an underlying storyline, but the world of Tyria really sucked you in.

2) Though it could be argued that GW1’s PvE had less freedom than GW2, the social interraction seemed to be far greater in PvE.

Why do I feel that ?

In GW2 you’re running around with plenty of other players in PvE, but there’s no sense of community – it’s hard to even get a discussion out of anyone, as people are too busy killing a mob before they rush off to kill something else.

In GW1 – and possibly because it was town and outpost based, there were always people looking to create parties for PvE. It meant you could enter into discussion about tactics – and even in PvE, you could issue commands via the mini map or just issue commands via chat.

3) The skills and combat system in GW1 just seem superior to what GW2 offers.

Think about having many skills to choose from, being able to tailor those skills to specific scenarios – and the addition of a secondary class, which certainly made it a skill game ensuring your skills were right for combat.

The skills in GW2 just don’t seem anywhere near as comprehensive – probably because of the end game philosophy. But it does leave the game feeling like it’s lacking something.

Same with combat – while the camera angles and battles in GW1 weren’t without problems, the combat in GW2 is just too ‘busy’ – and the camera angles often seem totally wrong.
And in a big mob it can be hard to actually see what you’re supposed to be hitting.
I have to admit, in those scenarios I’m just reduced to trying to target and hitting the attack buttons constantly – which doesn’t exactly take skill.

The combat actually seems better suited to a joypad – and I’ll admit that I’ve used xpadder and assigned the commands to my Sidewinder.

---

As I say, it’s essentially the PvE side of GW2 I just can’t get into.

For the reasons I’ve listed, and also because there are no heroes or henchmen you can call on if you find yourself just wanting to ‘solo’.

As I said above, because the PvE environment doesn’t seem conducive to social interraction, although you’re running with hundreds of other players they may as well be game characters.

So to me it just seems like a lonely solo grind with little reward. I know others will say playing the game is reward is enough – I respect that, but I can only comment based on how I see the game.

So GW2 is a beautiful game – I can appreciate the neat graphical touches. But it just lacks that something that makes me want to actually play it – probably a combination of all the points above.

Good and interesting write up. At least you can put some tangible arguments about what you dislike together

For me I’ve play so many types of games over a 20+ year gaming career that most of you issue don’t bother me. I’ve sort of been waiting for someone to make a compelling action oriented MMO that sucked me in (Tera, DCUO, and AoC never managed too) and so far GW2 is exactly what I’ve been wanting. How long it keeps me playing is another story but so far I’ve love all my time in it.

Paul.4081:

mechasauce.1309:

“hardcore gamers” are the same people that buy a game on day 1…blast through it..then jump on the forums complaining that its rubbish and does not cater to them.

ow wait…

How do you “Blast through” Battlefield 3 multiplayer?

“hardcore” mmo <> “hardcore” fps

different genre’s with different goals and business models even.

Synn Dinalt.7251:

Craven.5468:

Synn Dinalt.7251:

Plenty of people seem to like the new format…………………………..personally I don’t, and I agree with the OP that the game just isn’t addictive.

When I say addictive I don’t mean in a ‘taking over your life’ sense. But the must play is severely lacking. I’m nowhere near lvl 80, but I’m bored to death with it.

I’m glad others are loving the game – but for me it just hasn’t got that ‘x’ factor that makes playing enjoyable.

Coming from GW1 (which had its faults admittedly), GW2 just seems like a stripped down version – almost just a hack and slash console type game compared to its predecessor.

Stripped down from how it was last year, or stripped down from how it was on release? Perspective…

:)Seriously stripped down right now – but that’s only my view again, and I’m glad others are loving the game.

For me though, there’s no comparison in terms of character builds, skill sets (or actual skills) and combat – GW1 wins hands down on every one of them.

Wasn’t a lot of what people like in terms of depth and breadth of character build added in expansions? I keep hearing this debate, not having played GW1, and someone always points out that most of that stuff was added later. So my assumption is that GW2 will follow suit. Put out the basics let everyone get comfortable with the changes, then start adding the depth as appropriate. So just curious but was much of what you liked about GW1 available day one or added later.

I the opposite of the OP.

I lose my addiction when I can just curb stomp everything. Then its just trying to zombie my way thru something. Having to stay on my toes and constantly think about what I do next it what addicts me. The jumping puzzles are the most addictive to me as once I start one I must finish no matter how many times I fall. In fact the more times I fall the greater the addition to complete it becomes.

Derpinator.2894:

Player skill, not just “I’m swinging a sword, I’m swinging a sword”… really? I’m swinging a sword then hitting my dodge button endlessly. I wanted actual tactics, puzzles, riddles, fights, true skill. In the outside world, non-existent. In dungeons it’s a little better, but they’re so poorly tuned, and it’s so hard to know what the player skill interactions actually DO that it essentially stays a button mashing festival.

This has not been my experience with combat, as I am generally using my abilities when appropriate to get the maximum effect with minimal risk/damage. Sure I dodge when I have to but as a properly played Warrior I have tons of ways to avoid damage. So I would say your personal experience is the problem not the game (not to indicate your a bad player, you just have yet to experience combat as they intended).

There are no quests AT ALL in this game, and that’s a problem. So yes, they got rid of the !, but they also got rid of any sense of accomplishment of short term goals that some (very few, but some) of those ! quests supplied. And it’s still “kill x, to get y of z”. It’s this exactly. Or “go pick up x of y and give them to z”. Or “escort x to y”. It’s not even a good copy of the system. It’s even worse because at least if I’m kill buzzards to get gizzards in some other game, I know how many I have to get to get the freaking quest OVER WITH. Here it’s just a bar, slowly filling itself for a while. Then it’s done.

The beauty of the Renown Hearts is that they can be accomplished anywhere from 3-5 ways. This mean freedom in questing. The story quest does tend to have your standard kill X, fetch Y, or escort/defend quest structure but that is to allow familiarity to give way to feeling like you are playing your story. I can see if you were looking for more, but honestly I look at it the same way as the guy who invented !? questing, is evolution not revolution and I say bring it on and continue to evolve.

Dynamic world. I’ve seen NOTHING change in this game in any of the zones I’ve played in. 50% map coverage and everywhere I go, everything is exactly the same as it was the first time I saw it. Dynamic mykitten And this was the BIGGEST thing I was looking forward to. I mean, I can actually CHANGE the game world through my actions? How freaking awesome is that!!!!

This will be fixed by player population. Right now there are too many people in the zones, so anything that starts a chain DE gets done at the first step so there is never the follow up. I would say they can also tune these so there is a greater chance for failure, or add more chains where victory not defeat leads to something.

I’ll also note I actually did find a DE that changed the zone.

Dreadnaught Clefts, there is a outpost that gets attacked by a Champion level Jotun that unless killed, will kill all the NPC’s in the area. This is a problem as it is the only central location for repairs and has a nice centrally located Waypoint.

In the same zone there is a DE right at the entrance from Hoelbrek with a veteran mob that if defeated will run to a Svanir encampment and start a DE with a veteran Shaman there. I don’t know what happens after that one, as I have never failed to kill him.