Guild Wars 2

The main problem.

If they stuck to their guns as they did with GW1 to provide something different to the traditional MMO GW2 while maybe not getting the huge initial flux of players would probably had the same lifespan of GW1 which actually increased its player base over the first 5 years.

Now they have made GW2 so close to the MMOs already out and the few things that are separating it out are being copied.

I am not convinced in Nerverwinter Nights and TESO. However GW2 does not have the staying power that it had as a potential. They sacrificed long term for the short term and are playing catchup trying to make sure people still log in by placing these temp PvE things that are one time only.

Rather then actually creating a balanced and fun game for the long term… theya re just trying to hold on as long as they can by saying “if you do not keep logging in you will miss something forever!”

Sadly… the game I wanted to play for 7-8 years… might last a year and a half at most. I have already taken a 5 month break… and only FINALLY fixing culling for WvW brought me back… it sure as hell wasnt the PvE or the Ascended gear treadmill.

Just as a refresher and since I do not know all of them, I figured I would start a post about what class+skill combos are needed in a good zerg and maybe why.

There is a difference between a zerg… and a good zerg. Zergs will never be as organized as a guild group but with some knowledge about what helps the zerg as a whole… maybe the randoms and casuals that visit the forums can learn how to be helpful even in the chaotic zerg.

These are the skills zerg commanders and dedicated WvW players really want and need on classes in order to be successful. There are plenty of other skills that are useful but if you run with these classes at least take ONE of them.

So I wills tart with the ones I know of. Please add more if you want, since I do not claim to know all classes.

:Guardian:
Staff –
skill 4 is Empower and gives large stacks of might to allies. Right before a push this is important to build up the damage since PVT gear is the normal gear for WvW players.
skill 5 is Line of Warding and stops people from crossing. Much more useful in choke points like keep hallways leading to the Lord. This is very strong for wiping the first wave (usually the toughest) coming in by blocking them long enough for defense choke to kill or weaken them enough for the defense group to start getting kills.

Hammer -
Skill 2 is Mighty blow and is used to help build stacks. With a 5 second cooldown it is the quickest blast finisher I know of outside a thieves shortbow. Use this on any and all fire fields and water fields you see. Fire fields stack might for allies and water fields give AoE healing.

Hallowed ground/Stand your ground -
One of these MUST be in your guardian build for any zerg running. Guardians are the backbone of the zerg push and by giving your side stability you enable pushes PAST those deathtrap hallways.

:Mesmer:
Veil –
This gives stealth to allies that go through the veil. During a push you will hear commanders call for veil. This hides you from the enemy so there is a chance their AoE and CC abilities will target the wrong spot and miss your push wasting there skills.

Null Field -
Skill rips ALL boons. So that stability gets removed, Aegis, etc. The zerg with a good Null Field placement wins the push. As a bonus when your own zerg is in it all conditions get removed. No memser in a zerg should be without this skill.

Timewarp (Elite)-
Majorly important for Golem rushes. Gives golems and players (does not effect other siege) quickness for 10 seconds meaning you all attack 50% fast. It can be used in open field zerg vs zerg fighting but will overlap other fields so if you are trying to stack water fields or fire fields do not use it. Out of the default elite skills for a mesmer (non-racial) this should be your choice for running with the zerg.

Yeah I am with Draygo. The trolls in EB spouting off against any commander are NOT the community. The Kaineng community is on the United website, and in teamspeak together.

Those trolls tend to show up when Ebay is being faced, then disappear the next week. Dont know if they are just a cancer with their guilds hacking and exploiting so it makes people mad all around, or if they plant people to try and cause decent (doubtful of course) but it is the nature of the beast.

Other then the trolls… no-one wanted WvW to go. they were great folks and did a lot for the server. Personally I think they just go an offer they could not refuse…

A big thank you for sharing. A big sorry for what you are dealing with. I do not know you… but very glad to have had you here to enjoy the game with us.

Be with family, and keep fond memories of everything you can.

give incentive for guilds to move to the lower pop servers.

Free (or reduced up to free depending on the ranking of the server) transfers to low ranked servers.
Guild xp buff to get gets up and running quicker.

Do those… and we will start to see balanced WvW matches.

Agreed… it is nothing more then a run speed buff now… or to pull the very non observant. They pretty much nerfed it to the ground now as any half decent player can avoid it… and it was pretty much not needed in PvE as it was.

Sunflowers.1729:

Ostra.3927:

Necro can easily outrun in pure speed both of them if you slot the right skills

That’s an unfair comparison – Guardians can slot [Save Yourselves] and [Retreat] for lots of swiftness too (in addition to probably having a jump of some sort)

Edit: See the arrow in the post below me? Go up one more post ^ to see what she meant

I am big enough to admit I was wrong. I completely forgot about those two skills. I concede the point.

Yeah I like this idea and support it.

patricide.1062:

lol @ Kaineng super zerg to take back Hills on KBL. 70+ with 5 omegas. 20 people killed all of your omegas and more than half your forces.

GG though. Only took ya guys 3 hours :P

70+ huh?? looks around must be counting their own because only Ebay and Yaks have those numbers for a zerg

“What are those class you simply cannot catch or have difficultly catching.?”

Notice the running away part Nikkinella not the chasing down part. Guardian teleport has to target something. Sure you might be lucky enough to get a mob in WvW to use as a teleport but its not a sure thing.

So when running away… as a class. Guardian has 2 skills. A leap on greatsword or sword, and the staff speed buff that pulses so you might miss it. Sorry guardian is slow. along with mesmer. Necro can easily outrun in pure speed both of them if you slot the right skills

again with the necro at the bottom?? shakes head

guardian and mesmer are slowest potential. Necro has many skills that can increase speed Guardian as 1 and a single leap, mesmer has 1 and a blink skill.

so if you successfully defend your keep from an equal size force… you would’nt get honor? since you used siege against them you have the advantage… so you wont get given badges?

Yeah good plan. WvW is not about equal fights and 1v1s. It is warfare or some semblance of. Seriously…

Necro is deffinitly not the slowest class.

Warhorn>signet 25% constant>shadow run or whatever its called. For pure speed they are actually ok plus can get a speed buff while in deathshroud

Side effect of those saying Ascended items were nothing to worry about. That told the devs

“Grind for stats = good” so here we are… GW2 is no longer the game it could have been… its the game we play until ESO or CU or whatever else comes out.

Relics worked because it gave your realm bonuses. This should be how the orbs always worked.

The orbs need to give PvE bonuses NOT WvW bonuses. You will have servers fighting for control of the orbs as hard as they can, then leave to use those rewards (like magic find or whatever) in dungeons thus meaning less people defending and the other servers a chance to get it for themselves.

1. So they can only play with one build… what if they dont like playing that way? Well then they can just not play and we have less overall people in WvW.

2. Agree ACs should be a support weapon and they need some more balancing.

3. 1v1 is NOT fair. 1v1 is boring and static and you can see the history of RvR warfare for the proof. DAOC is still considered the best out there because of the 1v1v1 style mechanics. The problem is in DAoC it was the 2 weaker jumping on the larger to bring them down. Because of the stupid point system in WvWvW we have the 1 larger joining forced with the middle of the lower to attack the other one. Usually its the two largest smashing the smallest. Better to actually take away the points and give have a winner and 2 losers. The 2 weaker ones will automaticly stick to trying to remove the biggest threat because there is no second place.

4. Lag is not because of 3 worlds. its because of numbers. If you have 1000 people on the screen is doesnt matter if its 3 worlds or 1 world. Its still the same lag.

to boil it down,

1. uplevels shouldnt be allowed?
2. Arrow Carts are bad?
3. No more 3 sided fights, go to 2 sides (since it worked out so well in other games)
4. no more 3 sided fights go to 2 sides (to reduce lag?)

I would be very interested in seeing that video. Since I was with that group and at one point TC even split in two. One on each side of hill I guess to show their size. Each of the two groups was bigger then the single Kainite force there.

This was the same group that went to defend Garrison, we called in reinforcements of about the same size from BMS (great folk there) and then we had the TC group + the FA group all hitting garrison at the same time. Was fun… but when you consider we had to give up everything from the other lands in order to field those numbers and you probably did not (since RE wasnt in force I know you had at least the same number elsewhere) That is the definition of steamrolling lol

Not that is was bad mind you. Its simply a fact. TC can field a WHOLE lot more then Kaineng can and it would seem FA as well.

I have seen TC with double the numbers of KN troops. Can easily wipe us, yet still flash build ACs in the middle of the fight hehe… show offs. ;P

To add an actual matchup story.

That was a fun fight for garrison the other night. KN pushed to only holding garrison. No supply, no towers, 2 walls on each side down and the North inner and Watergates in splinters by the end of it. It was a fight of the inevitable KN had no chance… but you know what? We stood our ground… and fought to the last man as hard as we could.

TC great job on wearing everything down and the RE zerg that placed the cata on the side to lob into the lord room was a trick I had no seen before. It was crazy hectic but fun as hell at the same time.

Yes. it gives base stats that are better then exotic+gem/runes and it can be worn outside FoTM

So a bonus in all pve and a bonus in WvW.

Havent killed dragons in over a month even before I took my break from the game.

Sadly on kaineng when I am on no-one else is. The dragon timers for my server are not even updated cause at best there is like 2-3 people at the dragon and we can never kill it with just us. So the server pretty much ignores the dragons now.

I have logged in like a few others basicly.. 3 times since the Lost shores.

Here is the truth about why the Ascended was the final straw for a lot of us.

Yes there was a gear treadmill. But it was not impossible and it meant in a relatively short time and with dedication ALL types of players would be equal in the end. The dungeon runners, the open world explorers, the WvWers would all have a fair shot at the end game equipment. There was a light at the end of the tunnel.

Now? Now there is no light at the end o the tunnel… now there is just another tunnel. Anet has officially said they will continue with the gear treadmill. So those of us that already didnt like it but accepted it because it was a easy and widely obtainable end are now facing the same thing that we DONT like with other MMOs. Anet said “if you dont like MMOs, you should like us” except they failed to understand one of the BIGGEST reasons people dont like MMOs is the stupid gear treadmill.

This now feeds into the broken promises bit. Anet failed here because they did not focus on what they should have.

Bugs and glitchs in Personal Story and Dungeons making people completely stuck and unable to finish or do that content. This has been months now, I know 2 people out of 10 that cannot finish their personal story and 7 out of 10 have had to re run dungeons because it glitched out at some point. What happened to the mini games? What happened to more town cloths in the cash shop?

Finally. The designers of GW2 had a plan and it worked. They produced a good game with a full MMO experience that offered multiple style of players a place to live. The one exception is the Raiders. I understand wanting to fix this.

The problem is the live team do not have an understanding of how to do it, so they just threw numbers at people and said “Here! Go get more powerful!” It is lazy and sloppy design and basically spits of all the history GW has built and all the good faith Anet had before hand for truly being smart and innovative in their ideas.

Will I still play GW2? Yeah I will always come back, play a little and if they fix the issues in a year then I will play again every day as I did before. I will plop down 50 dollars a month as I used to… but if not, if they do not start to fix this game and make it what it could have been… then no, it will become a forgotten what could have been" and I will move on to games that are fun to play rather then a chore to play.

Yeah sounds like he logged out. Its a cowardly and childish behavior frankly and only those so called PvPers from the modern age (WoW-kiddies) would probably do it. Long term PvPers tend to take it like a man and deal with the loss.

Doesnt sound like a hack.. just a log.

Yeah this is not a new thing been there for around a month and a half.

Most common are thief’s who appear to mine, and once done will “shutter” like a spaz. hit the twisting blades (where they fly over the node upside down spinning) then disappear again. Not sure why it is so hard to stop teleporting hacks but I guess it is.

Azthioth.9682:

your first point is moot as you have no idea what is in the future. While your second statement may have been true, as all of you have said, this isn’t the same game as any other. It is different. I have yet to see anything like this and do not think I will. A few folks with 10 more points of every stat is not going to kill me anymore quickly than before.

There is no evidence to prove the apocalypse has come. Calm down.

It is true I am not a seerer who knows the future. However I am an old gamer, played many types on many systems starting with Archon on my TI system. I have also been in the MMO scene before there was one way back on BB muds through UO and WoW and all the ones in between.

There is a common trend in all of them and GW2 is not THAT unique. Once you begin inflation of gear, it leads to more inflation of gear. The only real difference GW2 had was that its developers were one of the few if not only SUCCESSFUL developers to make an MMO of any type (GW1 was an MMORPG by definition, if only barely) that did not fall pray to increasing vertical stats throughout the years.

Increasing power horizontally yes but not vertically.

So now we get to today. GW2’s developers still seemed to want to break the mold. But when push comes to shove (finance or whatever) they ignore their previous success and instead attempt to fall into the same clone mentality of all the others chasing the WoW dream.

If you are a WoW player, then this shouldnt bother you. If however there is anything in WoW you did not like based on gear, gating or the ever increasing power and ease later on in that pursuit of power. Then this should make you worry.

Because Vanilla WoW also had a very good balance for the casual and the hardcore in mind. Until they let split that first stat increase and people accepted it as a “its not a bad thing, lets wait and see” and now… we have WoW 2012.

Congrats Anet. You have fans now as smart as Slazzy feel good about yourself..

wait you probably do. Cause they believe the PR statements without really taking a critical eye to the facts.

Azthioth.9682:

How does acended gear hurt you guys? I don’t get it. I can do most exp mode dungeons below level 80 and do quite fine.

For now, until the grinders have full ascended and claim (even more then now) that the exp AC is to easy and Anet revamps it to match what the players have for stats. Then you may not be able to do AC.

Azthioth.9682:

I can pvp below 80 and have a good time. When, please tell me, when does WvW ever end in a 1v1?

If you run with special squads, we did this a lot on JQ and most of the top tier servers do, 1v1 WvW happens fairly often but small group is much more common. 4-6 vs 4-6. Remember the days of the server having all the Orb bonuses? Yeah THAT is the same stat difference that we have with 1 piece of Ascended. Just wait til you face someone in full with your exotics lol. Stop running with the zerg like a sheep and you may learn something about WvW.

How about you learn about it first.

“against Abaddon and his Demonic Servants”

It does not say “Against all content in the game including other players”

Plus it was a horizontal. Anyone could build the rank, it did not take running a special dungeon, and it did not preclude casual or hardcore from the title track.

So, yeah… you yet again are un informed on what you are talking about.

To Andrew:

First, a thank you for facing this like a man and being brave enough to actually make a post. Understand some people are very upset right now and they may not speak in the most polite manner. I cannot speak for them however I do have a problem with your response and Mike’s on the “gap”.

Let us assume the gap is indeed the issue as people got exotics and saw say 300 hours worth of gathering items before they got the Legendary. I can understand wanting something that sits in the 150 hour range or even a couple that sit at 100 and 200 hour range. This gives players a milestone that says “Hey look I am making progress” to everyone. Nothing wrong with this and I would support this.

The downside is the Ascended armor is not gotten in the same way as the Legendary, it is not part of the Legendary steps.

So let us assume it takes 100 hours (generally what it takes to get the back item I believe) to get a ascended gear. That is 100 hours you are not using to work towards your Legendary. So this does not bridge any gap, in fact it makes it take longer to get the Legendary.

The second problem is the power increase. There was no power gap between Legendary and Exotic. This was manufactured strictly for the inclusion of this new item tier. This leads to people looking at what they should do in the game and having 2 choices. Play in the old areas/content without “progressing” or do multiple runs of the FoTM dungeon and be working towards something.

This is where the statement by Mike loses its ability to make sense. It is conflicting statements in the same announcement.

This does not take into fact that those that want to work for those items, will now be more powerful (no matter how slight or large the difference is it is simply a fact) then those that do not, making a split in the population. Those with it at best will be wanted for any further content further down the road then those that do not.

It all boils down to anytime you increase the stats of the top end level, you create a power curve that has further repercussions then the intimidate player base, in this case the dungeon runners.

Let us give an example.

2 Players both play 400 hours. Both are of equal player skill. Both at level 80. One did WvWvW and PvE exploring all aspects of the game. The other did nothing but FoTM over and over again.

Which one is more powerful? That is right the one that ground(grinded?) rather then explored. The one that focuses on less of the beautiful content you guys pored your heart and souls into is simply better for going to one zone, and repeating the same content endlessly.

That is the very definition of a gear grind. So many of us are very concerned that this was implemented so suddenly and with what seems very little for sought or care to the repercussions. If we are wrong, we just ask that it get explained to us.

Thank you for your time, I really hope to see a response to this.

slazzy.7309:

Yup, this is truly epic. This is why the devs don’t respond, because you people are a joke. I sincerely hope you leave, because 1.) you don’t deserve to play in a game of this calibur, and 2.) I don’t deserve to put up with you.

Please, for the love of God, if you don’t like the changes, leave. Just leave. Leave by the thousands, because there will still be thousands left.

What I want all new players on this board to understand is the whining you read here is not indicative of what people who actually play the game feel. You won’t hear the same whining in game, you won’t see it on guildwars2forum.com, you won’t see it on the guildwars2 subreddit. Know why? Because those people actually play. The people here all run with the mob mentallity, which is to jump on the bandwagon with whatever hate post they see.

This definitely goes beyond the WoW drama. People really want to regurgitate their miserable lives onto everything they touch, and leave hate and misery in their wake. It won’t happen here. No matter how hard you filthpots try, you won’t destroy this game with your hate rhetoric.

You know it is funny. Check the post history of most of the users that are the most upset. What is the most common theme?

Yeah its that they supported Anet when they said they wanted to be a different kind of company. You whined and moaned and held your breath for gear progression… and you got it. So we learned… now WE are going to whine and moan and hold our breath to try and FIX this mess before it kills the game completely.

I am going to be un popular but here is the truth. If you EVER posted on this board that you felt a raise in stats for “progression” sake is needed… you are a troll sent by other game companies (Blizzard was actually found out to do this) to sabotage the game and you are ONLY mad now because we are using your same tactics against you.
So next time you call us angry types whiners… remember this.

How did that commercial go?

“I learned it from watching you!”

Just a quick point. MMOs were not “always about gear grinding” and RPGs definitely weren’t.

Anyone who truly believes that is not old enough to know the truth behind it and only thinks about the current generation (which is about 10-12 years old).

In table top the constant gear grind is considered “munchkin” and is a bad word and looked down on by players and other DMs as the laziest way to run a game. Yet you WANT this in an MMORPG?

Get older and wiser please. Learn about the world and the games you play before making comments about the “it is what makes it blah blah blah”

Ursan.7846:

That’s unfortunate. Me and my guildies ran a lvl 35 dungeon (AC) with a lvl 26. But of course, we are all friends/guildmates though.

pubs in general aren’t as kind though. Try joining a dungeoning guild!

uhmmmm… you sure about that? The min for AC story is 30… so not sure how you say you got a lvl 26 in there.

yeah those of us that realized what the inclusion of the ascended gear truly meant made this comment and was told we were exaggerating.

Look for “We have re-vamped Orr to provide ascended gear as very rare drops now, and added more DE events and made the mobs a bit tougher to compensate.” In a few months..

probably in the same blog as the “New Dungeon with Blessed Gear!”

John that wasnt really ment towards you. Yours was just a lightbulb in my head that sparked the revelation. Sorry was not trying to mean YOU are acting like a bad person.

Level cap will be raised.
New gear will be introduced.
New content (dungeon, etc) will start locking you out until you do the previous ones.

They have already made it a point that they want the WoW market and that those are the “dedicated” gamers they are going to go after.

Gear matters, and it will matter more and more. Deal with it, get on the treadmill or go play something else.

I actually agree Crater. This is bringing out some very bad things in some very good people. Myself included. I am definitely getting close to my complete troll phase which has not made an appearance since Shadowbane days.

This change of ideals in Anet that I knew for many years is simply sickening. BUT, I truly think they did not have a choice.

I will voice my opinion on these stupid ideas in multiple ways… but advocating illigal activities or violence on someone I (at least once and may still) respect is simply too much.

Phy.2913:

All these people with lives should get together. With the amount of complaints about this you guys could form a whole guild together.

Sadly they are all on different servers with no guesting feature and the fractals cannot be joined from multiple servers like the other dungeons.

So no. Get to grinding or GTFO

I got a couple guild mates wondering too. Dont know the answer yet

Just a heads up to be sure everyone is on the same track.

FoTM difficulty does NOT reset. Check the dev tracker.

basicly.. get a guild… get to grinding… or gtfo

Only thing to know. Is the FoTM dungeon difficulty levels do NOT reset like originally thought. So eventually if you do not keep up with the general populations level, you will be hard pressed to get into groups for it.

Vorch.2985:

…you could just make your own group with no level restriction instead of trying to change someone else.

Until you realize the dungeon never resets in difficulty and there is no-one else around to play with.

Since the grind is now prohibitive to having alts. People will do mains and the difficulty will have a mean eventually, going up and up as more people get to higher levels of it.

Unless you are in a dungeon guild… or have someone take pity on you.

Genesis.5169:

What I’m getting is what want good rewards for doing things lower then you level.

That’s interesting.

Yet again you show you have no knowledge of the original vision of the game.

That was WHY they placed level scaling in the game. So you could level and still visit those zones you missed or just enjoyed, get downleveled and get decent rewards while still having a risk and not just 1 shotting everything.

Did you even read ANY information on GW2 before joining the game and then most likely complaining that its not WoW?

Gear grinding is a lazy way to design plain and simple.

GW1 has such better ways to handle the option for the hardcore grinders and was a critical AND financial success for it.

Gear grinding does not equal success. Lazy copy cat design decisions definitly dont.

Orr will get the botters back because they cannot bot the new FoTM dungeon.

Anet will be revamping the rewards in Orr and other zones to make them worth having the grinders there again raising the diffuculty of course. This of course means the casuals will be an unwelcome site and a drain because they always need ressing.

Welcome to the new Grind Wars. And we were exaggerating right? 4 days… 4 days to destroy what took 5 years to make.

WHat I find the most telling and the most sad.

On my server we went to the new land, opened all the areas… then everyone vanished to go back to grinding the dungeon.

This isnt the Guild Wars I was looking for. This is Grind Wars

I cannot I can get a refund for the 3 deluxe copies I bought as I bought them all on the first day of pre order.

But this change in direction has made it so I will not spend another dime and will be taking a break soon from this game.

Went from 3-4 hours a night of casual play, doing sPvP wvw, some dungeon, many alts (between me and the wife we have bought 8 new character slots). to since the announcement 3 hours in 4 days.

Tonight was the first time I have ever logged off a Anet game in a rage because I heard

“LFG FoTM 80+only, no noobs!”

Seriously… my god, these are your dedicated gamers???

trebs are up. Still nothing happening

You are right Dego. I bought into the things the devs said they would not do and believed them.

So the next time a salesmen gives you a bad product… that would be YOUR fault right? not his? So just suck it up and learn to never buy from that company again.

Good advice. Dego says dont buy from Anet ever again. I agree with him

right now I am backing out of traditional MMOs. Prolly check out PS2 on the 20th. But playing with some new mods in Skyrim and FO:NV now.

Still keeping an eye on Elder Scrolls Online but to many things seem like yet another MMO, and WoD but there is very little info on that one.

I left DAoC the moment the item upgrades were released.

I was in a large and top level RvR guild that has 150 members. 90% of us left without buying the expansion and without ever playing DAoC again until they added the legacy servers.