Not sure if that rant was aimed at me Lordsicky, I spend my time these days powning top 100 terror necros and hambows alike on my dps guard.
But I only have two condi cleanses and lyssa is one of them. I can spec for two more but this makes the matchup substantially weaker due to the drop in dps. It’s not a hard counter at all.
Style is right though, people will continue to run lyssa for the condi clear unless anything else can do it better..
Nerfing lyssa and boosting condi spread is just further polarising the matchup between offensive direct damage and condi dps. Let’s hope some other runes can fill that gap,
Oh and just to point out that learning to duel condi burst when you lack adequate condi removal is one of the toughest mechanical things to learn in the game, and will certainly not entice perspective players to commit to spvp…
I think the big reason we need to streamline things and make it easy to pickup is NOT because newbies are dumb or incapable of figuring it out, but rather because PvP is very, very intimidating. Reduction in apparent complexity helps PvP be more approachable and less intimidating.
Also, I can’t undersell the benefits of reducing conceptual complexity for assisting designers achieve balance. We are finite creatures, us humans, and can only hold so many things in our mind at one time. We can create tools to help work around this, but anything that helps make balance easier gets my vote.
Yeah I agree Justin, it’s an unnecessary level of complexity when complexity should be focused around traits and the game style they create..
what game style would that be?
pure bunker and pure glass without a balanced middle ground?
I’m talking about combat zones, the interplay of weapon skills and how cooldowns are approached by the player (if they need to be spread out and maintained or burned in succession).
The whole bunker or burst thing doesn’t make much sense to me, it only made sense at the games release when players were new and guardian was OP. Now it should just be the management of cooldowns and traits/weapons should complement your play style and rotations.
For instance when I’m dueling a necro on my dps guard I know my condi removal is very limited. So I have to block and blind in succession every attack while I burst them down. The rate I tear through cooldowns is much faster than a duel vs hambow, where I know I need to spend more time evading and maintain defensive cooldown, whilst shifting my dps toward symbols and scepter 2.
This is an example of varying game style within the same build. Traits should complement and create new ways to play, and while amulets are a necessary layer of complexity they shouldn’t make fine tuning balance impossible due to stat ambiguity.
But that said, none of this matters if balance isn’t addressed regularly by hot fixes (healing sig should of been picked up on in the autumn).
I think the big reason we need to streamline things and make it easy to pickup is NOT because newbies are dumb or incapable of figuring it out, but rather because PvP is very, very intimidating. Reduction in apparent complexity helps PvP be more approachable and less intimidating.
Also, I can’t undersell the benefits of reducing conceptual complexity for assisting designers achieve balance. We are finite creatures, us humans, and can only hold so many things in our mind at one time. We can create tools to help work around this, but anything that helps make balance easier gets my vote.
Yeah I agree Justin, it’s an unnecessary level of complexity when complexity should be focused around traits and the game style they create..
You know it’s bad when only the resident forum trolls get behind a dev decision.
Presumably aimed at me. If so you have an interesting definition of troll. I think you need to get out more if you think I am a troll. Different opinions to either anet and/or other posters does not equal troll. That is how the real world works.
Man you kitten and moan every balance at the slightest hint of something being OP, insist that the devs are screwing up in spades etc..
Then when something is implemented that does actually look to introduce an abusive mechanic, you argue against the whole playerbase and side with the devs.
Calling you a troll is the easiest way to dismiss your actions, where the accusation of any other ulterior motives could get me banned.
I’m not interested in singling out any individuals, or making any “I told you so” posts further down the line. I just want this game to be the best it can be.
Are you really trying to tell me that condition removal is not really needed? Come on.
They should give us something useful against condtions and replace AR not nerfing it and go on.
1 condition removed by tool belt ablilities for example.
Wasn’t saying you guys are in a good place for condi removal. But the stuff you described is mostly getting addressed, and you’d be amazed at how one or two extra condi clears on ten second CD can improve your condition matchups..
Could we (engis) get something that helps against condis ? two conditions removed every 15 or 20 sec is not enough.
It was good to nerf AR. But please take a look at the engineer condition removal
sigils
I can only equip two (not like warrior with short switching times to have a “condi removal weapon”) and it does not help me in time critical situation (pin down from warrior before fun with hammer/axe , immob from mesmer before shatter, immob/stun from thief before PW and fear from necro before too much fun with keys)
You should be able to reflect pin down pretty easily now. Axe warrior is being nerfed to the ground. Without pin down hitting hammer will be much easier to avoid. If a Mesmer is shattering on you from an immob he’s outplaying you. Thief PW is getting a nerf.
Necros will continue to kitten on you. But you need to post in the perplexity thread about that!
Warriors are mechanically too easy to stay as a top tier class.
Unless they introduce three more class skills it’ll never be balanceable for top tier play.
I’m now confident enough on guardian to deal with top 100 hambow warriors. This is not going to change for a while, because they’re balanced (guardian) around the average player who can’t chain his abilities/kite in the right fashion. Most players with half a brain can hit f1 in a fire field chain stun a helpless player then hit 2 while an opponent is incapacitated. Hambow rotations and skill application being so simple and repetitive, if you can win 20 duels you can win 200….
As for eviscerate warriors after the patch, which is by far the most nerfed build ( much more than PW/decap) let’s just say I’m glad I don’t practise them anymore…
Ok so dragon controversy aside, just want to point out that players would still like their progression in game (and preferably in some quantifiable format).
Any PvE brat can farm a legendary. Winning this tourney would be cool because it’s well publicised, in (hopefully) the first meta not to be dominated by ele, terror necro or warrior (ever?). Should make for a good tourney if perplexity runes don’t ruin things (and they can’t learn dps guard in time – hint hint guys)
But yeah legendaries aren’t the answer going forward for in game recognition.
One thing that would be cool is it to have a physical notch on your nameplate every time you win an esl cup. That would be awesome IMO..
Just wanted to call some attention to this thread.
Can you guys do me a favor and try the game out after the features are in the game before assuming removing this is going to ruin everything?
No. Sadly my Elementalist build will die because of this. I will fill my need of PvP elsewhere. With the removal of jewels, it just doesn’t make me want to try. I play for diversity; I enjoy MTG because of this. Good bye. Ladderless and pointless solo roaming in WvW is now more appealing (I am not kidding at all).
Just to point out, my Staff Elementalist build wins duels, it’s not glass. It’s Celestial with a twist. Now, you are removing the “twist”. How will you convince me to play again?
Fresh-Air-One-With-Air Staff Elementalist, Celestial-Zealot-Zerker Stay-on-Threshold-Self-Heal build. You’ve never heard of that. And it’s super functional, but a lot more in WvW roaming due to stat diversity.
Celestial is getting a huge buff in spvp and you’re worried about your zerker ‘twist’.
Staff ele hipsters theorycraft like they’re ordering a ten pound kittentail at one of those cool bars. You know the ones that play Tame Impala album tracks and have an overabundance of cloth upholstery..
Idk how u even concider puting those runes to pvp , as a necro i already know that every necro gonna use it , it will be way to OP to not use it. Fear now will be interupt , DS fear 17s cd (traited) + reapers mark 40s cd + wail of doom 30s cd , potentialy 3 interupts , now when we will have more control over dhumfire necro will be killing machine.
Just think again about it , it will be realy not fun to have those runes for next 6 months till next patch.
I hear you. I think the things we’re doing to broaden the base will help with queue times. Won’t get into the specifics of balance though, not here anyways.
I have awoken from a short sleep a bit groggy and Confused.
For some reason I wish to play Mesmer even more than before. . . My head was bleeding (possibly I was knocked out) Luckily the blood didn’t reach the text on my shirt “Berserker stance” it seemed to be immune. After wobbling around a bit I was able to keep myself from being knocked down due to my balanced stance. I feel like my dream was causing me a great deal of damage, but T. Bear taught me how to endure pain. I realized that this was all from the some clever Mesmer(possibly Fay my arch nemesis) trying to control my thoughts which caused me to go into a rampage. I was consoled quickly by the champion genius which calmed my mind and body like a healing surge. The genius whispered to me one thing and one thing only that I will take to my grave. . . . HHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMM/BBBBBBBBBBBOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW!
The time is coming that my bow and hammer will crush many a foe, but who knows maybe I will dust off my Mace/Sword and Long Bow. Only time will tell. :P
ROFL
Could “GW2; a text based adventure” be the next SAB?
How would a slightly better Hotjoin be better for the game?
Solo Arena is a great place for people to improve without having to waste time looking for a team. It also helps you with your awareness as you have no one on TS to explain to you where the opposing players are etc.
Because it would provide MMR matchmaking in a casual environment/allow people to duo+trio queue without fear of losing ranks. You could not use TS in this type too, in fact that would probably be common..
There are a lot of external factors that could affect Mesmer viability however. Matchups between all classes will change substantially. If a build arose which shut thieves out (which is very possible), Mesmer would immediately be back in a more robust spot.
You seriously think you will land frostbow 5 on any living being? And what do you do after a frostbow 4 and your opponent is alive? Pelt them with frostbow arrows for 400 damage? Tickle them with earth attunement autoattacks?
You can blink while charging it. You can get it off after a gale… It’s actually pretty easy, relative to the requirements of landing anything as an ele.
@OP that struck me as a possible way of using the trait too. From looking at your trait setup the first think I would change is to add Zephyr’s Boon to the master tier trait in air, as it’ll be a useful source of fury (fire 5+Lighting hammer leap finisher + tempest defense).
The clear weakness here would be no condition removal however. This is why 0/10/30/30/0 might see more action, as cleansing water is going to be vital for dealing with condi pressure.
Discuss your matches and your builds. Get in a nice top rated player to take you through some matches and teach you about comps and roles, bunker rotations etc.
Take what you learn from this into solo Q and you WILL be top 300 on eu..
Why am I the only guy wanting to talk about this? Are you concerned that releasing a better virtues GM would make virtues limit build diversity.. In which case make a more viable new GM in radiance for offensive play!
It sounds like dps guard has been used somewhat as a benchmark this patch.. And I could play ele tomorrow if any of the builds became OP… But it seems frustrating how few people have the understanding and motivation to discuss this content in the forums during the development stages.
All the ele signets are just plain bad. Once skills and traits are smoothed in the other areas, it would be great to see a complete overhaul in this department.
The new ele builds can’t do everything at once though.
The new earth trait it strong, but on that build an ele is constantly vulnerable to either conditions or direct damage.. And needs to swap between the two to keep that sustain.
Staff cleansing water xxx/30/30 will be strong versus condition classes (and introduce heavy cleanse support). But again they won’t be able to 1v1 direct damage (but they can out sustain)..
Blinds are gonna be a big help on fresh air builds (30/30x) for thief matchups, but again I’ll still be able to casually two shot the best eles in the game with an evisc warrior..
But hey.. Maybe some crazy fresh air stone heart ele will come out of nowhere and blow the meta up.. Beats hambow anyway…
So the only new GM dps guards can viably take in spvp is this?
Personally, I would not take it as a DPS trait. The only way I can see it really being worthwhile is if you also take Battle Presence so you’re applying the base Resolve effect to your buddies, and then boosting it using both Absolute Resolution and Purity of Body so that you’re putting out constant healing while also granting extra endurance regen to a group fight.
As to which of the new traits are viable for a DPS guardian, I’m interested in how the new Zeal trait will go with something like a 30/20/0/0/20 build and Carrion gear/ammy. However, this is very much morbid curiosity and not something I would actually suggest is a viable or good idea.
That’s the point though, we’re gonna run 20 into valor, and 30 isn’t too much of a stretch from there.
Yet bizarrely this trait isn’t even worthy of a minor adept (it’s substantially worse than the ranger minor adept for example, even if we overlook that five points into honor). And I’m not sure what circumstance you’re allies will require you to run x/x/x/30/30 for aoe endurance, even if the boost was triple that. It’s quite easy to make warrior/ranger/Mesmer provide aoe vigor constantly, ontop of any already self sustained on engi/ele etc. It’s one of the easiest support boons to achieve on several dps builds.
And yeah that was the trait setup I was testing earlier in the week, surprisingly strong and could be nasty with the update (several substantial buffs will converge on this build).
While the new things are met with some trepidation, the reveals so far have brought about more vitriol and disdain than cheers and appreciation. Why is this? Primarily because the game the players want is not the game the developers are giving them.
Do not forget the nature of forums; that those that take issue with something are more likely to come forward. I think that this is one of the big disconnects that can mislead people (including us,) and cause us to misunderstand what the community actually wants/feels. Also keep in mind that no one can presume to represent everyone’s opinions.
So what does this mean for PvP? Well, it means that the game can never be truly balanced.
This would be an interesting topic. Perfect balance is impossible, for any game… so what exactly is required for balance to be considered good? I know many people have many opinions on what needs changed, but what are the core requirements? (Forgive me if this seems obvious, I’m not a designer and haven’t given it much thought before.)
History tells me we will see a crackdown on disgruntled players in the forums and the PvP will continue to degrade.
We are actually very open and accepting of players that wish to express their opinions, even negative ones, we just have a hard line when it comes to our forum code of conduct. Stick to that and I can guarantee your posts will not be removed.
I liked several of the new traits, and am a big fan of the work you guys are doing.
That said..
It does seem like on almost every class there’s a new GM trait that says “we didn’t want to give you a new usable trait here”. To name a few:
Discipline (warrior)
Valor (guardian)
Skirmishing (ranger)
Air (elementalist)
Etc..
Particularly if you sorted the ranger and guardian traits this player would be happy.
My fear is we will be forced to run 30/30/X for our dps to compensate for class weaknesses as a zerker, and this RNG block trait simple can’t deliver on a zerker build. This puts a lot of pressure on read the wind to be effective, as no signets is a big loss.
For me the skirmishing GM was a ‘make or break’ for glass power ranger that doesn’t look to deliver, like the the new virtues GM on guardian (for dps)…
I don’t know what rock you’ve been living under but we are already forced into the 30/30/x build for zerker for over the last year I’ve been playing my Ranger. If you aren’t running that you need to l2p.
I play spvp. If you’ve been just been playing 30/30 glass ranger for over a year in spvp then L2P.
Not denying it isn’t the best trait setup for glass ranger, just had to call this comment out for its absurdity.
Oh yeah and I’ve busted out ~8k matches in spvp under that rock, so it’s all good.
No because there is an endurance reg cap at 100% bonus, so vigor is max, the trait is utterly worthless for a grandmaster because there is a 5points trait in the line above which gives about permavigor (on crit apply 6s vigor 5s cooldown(scaling with boonduration))
It’s 5s duration, and the patch is nerfing it down to 10s ICD.
5×1.3=6.5
5×1.4=7
So the only new GM dps guards can viably take in spvp is this?
I would rather they spent the time implementing a really good character template system though. To be fair I got 9 slots on 2 accounts (18) though so arenanet already has my money.
